Maybe it may be more accurate to state that wealthy countries can afford the luxury of outsourcing the pollution to poor countries.
Please mod parent up.
It is also worth pointing out that it is physically impossible for every country to be as wealthy as the USA - and yet people act as if this was an actual goal of global capitalism.
If we seriously want to address this problem we will have to face up to the basic facts, including the difficult ones.
Since Cheney has already earned $20+ million from Halliburton, I personally find it extremely dubious that he would make some decision to keep an extra few hundred thousand...
You make it sound as if "a few hundred thousand" dollars is not a significant amount of money.
Don't forget that he must also consider his income after he retires from government. These business relationships clearly have a long-term value.
I call it smear, smear, smear.
Call it what you like.
I'm still waiting for some credible evidence.
You have been provided with credible evidence that the Vice President is receiving payment from a company which has directly benefited from multi-billion dollar no-bid government contracts.
I think he is probably referring to the 'deferred payments' which Cheney still receives from Halliburton.
Halliburton, the Texas company which has been awarded the Pentagon's contract to put out potential oil-field fires in Iraq and which is bidding for postwar construction contracts, is still making annual payments to its former chief executive, the vice-president Dick Cheney.
The payments, which appear on Mr Cheney's 2001 financial disclosure statement, are in the form of "deferred compensation" of up to $1m (£600,000) a year.
I don't like the idea of us policing the rest of the world.
An imperial garrison is not a police force.
Re:Fighting for us ? absoulutely!
on
Semper WiFi
·
· Score: 1
Now Saddam Hussain has gone, the occupying force has an absolute responsibility to hand the country over to responsible governance.
The occupiers have an absolute responsibility to leave. It is not for the United States or any other foreign country to decide who should govern Iraq. This is a well-established principle of international law.
What the resistance understand, and what many in the west do not, is that the occupying forces represent the interests of the western ruling classes. They will not willingly return control of the country to the Iraqi people. Unfortunately, the only option remaning the Iraqis is to fight for independence, same as the Americans did against the British.
The alternative would be balkanisation and the development of mini states led by fanatics.
Balkanisation is certainly on the agenda, but not because of the wishes of the Iraqi people, whose solidarity has increased massively since the invasion.
You are familiar with the old technique of 'divide and conquer', yes? This is where the main threat of balkanisation comes from.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of starting the thing, it is now of vital importance to finish the job.
The job will only be finished when popular opinion forces their government to withdraw.
Recently the subject of OSS came up in a conversation with my boss. I (tentatively) suggested that it might be used in our organisation at some point the future.
He furrowed his brows and said: "Open source? Isn't that like freeware or something?"
Unprepared, I waffled briefly about the development model.
What I should have said was: "They call it Free software because it is unrestricted."
O'REILLY: In the "Personal Stories" segment tonight, we were surprised to find out than an American who lost his father in the World Trade Center attack had signed an anti-war advertisement that accused the USA itself of terrorism. The offending passage read, "We too watched with shock the horrific events of September 11... we too mourned the thousands of innocent dead and shook our heads at the terrible scenes of carnage -- even as we recalled similar scenes in Baghdad, Panama City, and a generation ago, Vietnam." With us now is Jeremy Glick, whose father, Barry, was a Port Authority worker at the Trade Center. Mr. Glick is a co-author of the book "Another World is Possible." I'm surprised you signed this. You were the only one of all of the families who signed...
JEREMY GLICK: Well, actually, that's not true.
O'REILLY: Who signed the advertisement?
GLICK: Peaceful Tomorrow, which represents 9/11 families, were also involved.
O'REILLY: Hold it, hold it, hold it, Jeremy. You're the only one who signed this advertisement.
GLICK: As an individual.
O'REILLY: Yes, as -- with your name. You were the only one. I was surprised, and the reason I was surprised is that this ad equates the United States with the terrorists. And I was offended by that.
GLICK: Well, you say -- I remember earlier you said it was a moral equivalency, and it's actually a material equivalency. And just to back up for a second about your surprise, I'm actually shocked that you're surprised. If you think about it, our current president, who I feel and many feel is in this position illegitimately by neglecting the voices of Afro- Americans in the Florida coup, which, actually, somebody got impeached for during the Reconstruction period -- Our current president now inherited a legacy from his father and inherited a political legacy that's responsible for training militarily, economically, and situating geopolitically the parties involved in the alleged assassination and the murder of my father and countless of thousands of others. So I don't see why it's surprising...
O'REILLY: All right. Now let me stop you here. So...
GLICK:... for you to think that I would come back and want to support...
O'REILLY: It is surprising, and I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why it's surprising.
GLICK:... escalating...
O'REILLY: You are mouthing a far left position that is a marginal position in this society, which you're entitled to.
GLICK: It's marginal -- right.
O'REILLY: You're entitled to it, all right, but you're -- you see, even -- I'm sure your beliefs are sincere, but what upsets me is I don't think your father would be approving of this.
GLICK: Well, actually, my father thought that Bush's presidency was illegitimate.
O'REILLY: Maybe he did, but...
GLICK: I also didn't think that Bush...
O'REILLY:... I don't think he'd be equating this country as a terrorist nation as you are.
GLICK: Well, I wasn't saying that it was necessarily like that.
O'REILLY: Yes, you are. You signed...
GLICK: What I'm saying is...
O'REILLY:... this, and that absolutely said that.
GLICK:... is that in -- six months before the Soviet invasion in Afghanistan, starting in the Carter administration and continuing and escalating while Bush's father was head of the CIA, we recruited a hundred thousand radical mujahadeens to combat a democratic government in Afghanistan, the Turaki government.
O'REILLY: All right. I don't want to...
GLICK: Maybe...
O'REILLY: I don't want to debate world politics with you.
GLICK: Well, why not? This is about world politics.
O'REILLY: Because, No. 1, I don't really care what you think.
The economy is bad for everyone except foreign contractors:
"The scale of the task facing the United States and the international community in Iraq has been highlighted by the first detailed figures since the conflict ended on the state of the Arab country's economy.
Iraq's economy will shrink 22% this year, having fallen 21% in 2002 and 12% in 2001, the United Nations and the World Bank have estimated.
The figures, which have been published ahead of a major meeting of donor nations, suggest that reconstruction work in Iraq will be slower to take effect than originally hoped.
Average income in Iraq fell from $3,600 per person in 1980 to between $770 and $1,020 by 2001 and will be just $450-610 by the end of 2003, the UN and World Bank said.
Even by the end of 2004, the two organisations estimate that average income could be lower than in 2001."
though that didn't mean that they were willing to turn over bin Laden
Actually, the Taliban were negotiating with the US prior to 9/11 about handing Bin Laden over to a third country:
"ZDF television quoted Kabir Mohabbat, an Afghan-American businessman, as saying he tried to broker a deal between the Americans and the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan, who were sheltering Bin Laden. He quoted the Taliban foreign minister, Mullah Wakil Ahmed Mutawakil, as saying: "You can have him whenever the Americans are ready. Name us a country and we will extradite him." A German member of the European Parliament, Elmar Brok, confirmed to Reuters that he had helped Mohabbat in 1999 to establish initial contact with the Americans. "I was told (by Mohabbat) that the Taliban had certain ideas about handing over Bin Laden, not to the United States but to a third country or to the Court of Justice in The Hague," Brok said."
Lovelock has been advocating nuclear energy for a while now.
From a September 2000 article in the Guardian:
"And then they say: what shall we do with nuclear waste?" Lovelock has an answer for that, too. Stick it in some precious wilderness, he says. If you wanted to preserve the biodiversity of rainforest, drop pockets of nuclear waste into it to keep the developers out. The lifespans of the wild things might be shortened a bit, but the animals wouldn't know, or care. Natural selection would take care of the mutations. Life would go on."
The only ones who are really affected by inhalation are people who are being shot at.
"Four soldiers from a New York Army National Guard company serving in Iraq are contaminated with radiation likely caused by dust from depleted uranium shells fired by U.S. troops, a Daily News investigation has found.
They are among several members of the same company, the 442nd Military Police, who say they have been battling persistent physical ailments that began last summer in the Iraqi town of Samawah.
"I got sick instantly in June," said Staff Sgt. Ray Ramos, a Brooklyn housing cop. "My health kept going downhill with daily headaches, constant numbness in my hands and rashes on my stomach."
A nuclear medicine expert who examined and tested nine soldiers from the company says that four "almost certainly" inhaled radioactive dust from exploded American shells manufactured with depleted uranium."
However, it is still my understanding that the NSA goes to great pains to avoid intercepting any communication that comes from a U.S. citizen. They are strictly prohibited from doing so.
Which is why they get the Brits to do it for them.
I'm an admin in N. Ireland. We noticed this morning that a small percentage of sites were timing out. I contacted our ISP, who confirmed that that there were some problems on the backbone which were related to the fire.
Worldwide, the numbers were unprecented. Within the UK, the second partner in the coalition, the numbers were unprecented. You may be correct in saying the the current anti-war movement in the US has not yet reached the levels it attained in the 60s, but, as many commentators have pointed out, widespread opposition to the Vietnam war did not occur until well into the conflict. Active opposition to the Iraq war, on the other hand, was occurring at a significant level even before the conflict started.
All of these facts support the idea that public awareness of global affairs has become heightened. Indeed, if you speak to activists they will confirm that the internet is an important factor in all of this.
In the West at least, the internet is certainly having a political impact.
It is to be expected that where power is derived form force, the existence of the internet will have little political effect. On the other hand, where power is derived from propaganda the internet will have significant effect. This thesis is borne out if you look at recent political movements in the west, e.g. the anti-globalisation and anti-war movements.
The number of people involved in the anti-war movement in particular was unprecedented, and depended largely for its success on the internet - both as an alternative news source and as a organisational tool.
Slashdot Mirror
Maybe it may be more accurate to state that wealthy countries can afford the luxury of outsourcing the pollution to poor countries.
Please mod parent up.
It is also worth pointing out that it is physically impossible for every country to be as wealthy as the USA - and yet people act as if this was an actual goal of global capitalism.
If we seriously want to address this problem we will have to face up to the basic facts, including the difficult ones.
you can't call yourslef skeptical before even attempting to corroborate the information put in front of you
Unfortunately life is too short to investigate every outrageous claim made about official enemies.
However, if you will trouble yourself to provide evidence, I will trouble myself to read it.
Since Cheney has already earned $20+ million from Halliburton, I personally find it extremely dubious that he would make some decision to keep an extra few hundred thousand...
You make it sound as if "a few hundred thousand" dollars is not a significant amount of money.
Don't forget that he must also consider his income after he retires from government. These business relationships clearly have a long-term value.
I call it smear, smear, smear.
Call it what you like.
I'm still waiting for some credible evidence.
You have been provided with credible evidence that the Vice President is receiving payment from a company which has directly benefited from multi-billion dollar no-bid government contracts.
What kind of evidence where you looking for?
This stuff sounds awfully like the nonsense that was fed to the public prior to the invasion of Iraq.
I think there are reasons to be sceptical of such stories - especially in the absence of any kind of evidence.
I think he is probably referring to the 'deferred payments' which Cheney still receives from Halliburton.
5 ,00.html
Halliburton, the Texas company which has been awarded the Pentagon's contract to put out potential oil-field fires in Iraq and which is bidding for postwar construction contracts, is still making annual payments to its former chief executive, the vice-president Dick Cheney.
The payments, which appear on Mr Cheney's 2001 financial disclosure statement, are in the form of "deferred compensation" of up to $1m (£600,000) a year.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,91251
I don't like the idea of us policing the rest of the world.
An imperial garrison is not a police force.
Now Saddam Hussain has gone, the occupying force has an absolute responsibility to hand the country over to responsible governance.
The occupiers have an absolute responsibility to leave. It is not for the United States or any other foreign country to decide who should govern Iraq. This is a well-established principle of international law.
What the resistance understand, and what many in the west do not, is that the occupying forces represent the interests of the western ruling classes. They will not willingly return control of the country to the Iraqi people. Unfortunately, the only option remaning the Iraqis is to fight for independence, same as the Americans did against the British.
The alternative would be balkanisation and the development of mini states led by fanatics.
Balkanisation is certainly on the agenda, but not because of the wishes of the Iraqi people, whose solidarity has increased massively since the invasion.
You are familiar with the old technique of 'divide and conquer', yes? This is where the main threat of balkanisation comes from.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of starting the thing, it is now of vital importance to finish the job.
The job will only be finished when popular opinion forces their government to withdraw.
cf. Vietnam.
Recently the subject of OSS came up in a conversation with my boss. I (tentatively) suggested that it might be used in our organisation at some point the future.
He furrowed his brows and said: "Open source? Isn't that like freeware or something?"
Unprepared, I waffled briefly about the development model.
What I should have said was: "They call it Free software because it is unrestricted."
Partial Transcript: The O'Reilly Factor 2-4-03
... for you to think that I would come back and want to support...
... escalating...
... I don't think he'd be equating this country as a terrorist nation as you are.
... this, and that absolutely said that.
... is that in -- six months before the Soviet invasion in Afghanistan, starting in the Carter administration and continuing and escalating while Bush's father was head of the CIA, we recruited a hundred thousand radical mujahadeens to combat a democratic government in Afghanistan, the Turaki government.
O'REILLY: In the "Personal Stories" segment tonight, we were surprised to find out than an American who lost his father in the World Trade Center attack had signed an anti-war advertisement that accused the USA itself of terrorism. The offending passage read, "We too watched with shock the horrific events of September 11... we too mourned the thousands of innocent dead and shook our heads at the terrible scenes of carnage -- even as we recalled similar scenes in Baghdad, Panama City, and a generation ago, Vietnam." With us now is Jeremy Glick, whose father, Barry, was a Port Authority worker at the Trade Center. Mr. Glick is a co-author of the book "Another World is Possible." I'm surprised you signed this. You were the only one of all of the families who signed...
JEREMY GLICK: Well, actually, that's not true.
O'REILLY: Who signed the advertisement?
GLICK: Peaceful Tomorrow, which represents 9/11 families, were also involved.
O'REILLY: Hold it, hold it, hold it, Jeremy. You're the only one who signed this advertisement.
GLICK: As an individual.
O'REILLY: Yes, as -- with your name. You were the only one. I was surprised, and the reason I was surprised is that this ad equates the United States with the terrorists. And I was offended by that.
GLICK: Well, you say -- I remember earlier you said it was a moral equivalency, and it's actually a material equivalency. And just to back up for a second about your surprise, I'm actually shocked that you're surprised. If you think about it, our current president, who I feel and many feel is in this position illegitimately by neglecting the voices of Afro- Americans in the Florida coup, which, actually, somebody got impeached for during the Reconstruction period -- Our current president now inherited a legacy from his father and inherited a political legacy that's responsible for training militarily, economically, and situating geopolitically the parties involved in the alleged assassination and the murder of my father and countless of thousands of others. So I don't see why it's surprising...
O'REILLY: All right. Now let me stop you here. So...
GLICK:
O'REILLY: It is surprising, and I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why it's surprising.
GLICK:
O'REILLY: You are mouthing a far left position that is a marginal position in this society, which you're entitled to.
GLICK: It's marginal -- right.
O'REILLY: You're entitled to it, all right, but you're -- you see, even -- I'm sure your beliefs are sincere, but what upsets me is I don't think your father would be approving of this.
GLICK: Well, actually, my father thought that Bush's presidency was illegitimate.
O'REILLY: Maybe he did, but...
GLICK: I also didn't think that Bush...
O'REILLY:
GLICK: Well, I wasn't saying that it was necessarily like that.
O'REILLY: Yes, you are. You signed...
GLICK: What I'm saying is...
O'REILLY:
GLICK:
O'REILLY: All right. I don't want to...
GLICK: Maybe...
O'REILLY: I don't want to debate world politics with you.
GLICK: Well, why not? This is about world politics.
O'REILLY: Because, No. 1, I don't really care what you think.
GLICK: Well, OK.
O'REILLY: You're -- I want to...
GLICK: But you do care because you...
As somebody on another forum astutely observed, the way that this will be sold at first is by "chip = vip" method.
Expect non-removable chips to become a chic accessory in the next few years.
What I keep wondering is where are we going to house all these new-found terrorists?
Diego Garcia.
The economy is bad for everyone except foreign contractors:
"The scale of the task facing the United States and the international community in Iraq has been highlighted by the first detailed figures since the conflict ended on the state of the Arab country's economy.
Iraq's economy will shrink 22% this year, having fallen 21% in 2002 and 12% in 2001, the United Nations and the World Bank have estimated.
The figures, which have been published ahead of a major meeting of donor nations, suggest that reconstruction work in Iraq will be slower to take effect than originally hoped.
Average income in Iraq fell from $3,600 per person in 1980 to between $770 and $1,020 by 2001 and will be just $450-610 by the end of 2003, the UN and World Bank said.
Even by the end of 2004, the two organisations estimate that average income could be lower than in 2001."
Iraq's economy declines by half
Here are some links for you to look at:
Murder
Rape
Sodomy
though that didn't mean that they were willing to turn over bin Laden
Actually, the Taliban were negotiating with the US prior to 9/11 about handing Bin Laden over to a third country:
"ZDF television quoted Kabir Mohabbat, an Afghan-American businessman, as saying he tried to broker a deal between the Americans and the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan, who were sheltering Bin Laden. He quoted the Taliban foreign minister, Mullah Wakil Ahmed Mutawakil, as saying: "You can have him whenever the Americans are ready. Name us a country and we will extradite him." A German member of the European Parliament, Elmar Brok, confirmed to Reuters that he had helped Mohabbat in 1999 to establish initial contact with the Americans. "I was told (by Mohabbat) that the Taliban had certain ideas about handing over Bin Laden, not to the United States but to a third country or to the Court of Justice in The Hague," Brok said."
'Taliban told US they would give up Osama'
Unfortunately, the US decided before 9/11 that they wanted to invade Afghanistan and overthrow the Taliban.
US 'planned attack on Taleban'
So opposing something which is 'bad for humans' is evidence that the Greens 'hate humans'? How does that work?
Has it occurred to you that perhaps Greens value the environment *precisely because* it is in the interest of humans to do so?
There seem to be some strange misconceptions about environmentalism around here.
Lovelock has been advocating nuclear energy for a while now.
From a September 2000 article in the Guardian:
"And then they say: what shall we do with nuclear waste?" Lovelock has an answer for that, too. Stick it in some precious wilderness, he says. If you wanted to preserve the biodiversity of rainforest, drop pockets of nuclear waste into it to keep the developers out. The lifespans of the wild things might be shortened a bit, but the animals wouldn't know, or care. Natural selection would take care of the mutations. Life would go on."
Guardian article here
KBR is not allowing any private computers on their system for the next ninety days
These techniques have been policy since at least the sixties. Here is a chapter listing from the CIA's manual on 'coercive questioning':
# Restrictions
# The Theory of Coercion
# Arrest
# Detention 86-87
# Deprivation of Sensory Stimuli 87-90
# Threats and Fear 90-92
# Debility 92-93
# Pain 93-95
# Heightened Suggestibility and Hypnosis 95-98
# Narcosis 98-100
# The Detection of Malingering 101-102
# Conclusion 103-104
KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation
Similar methods were also used by the British army in N. Ireland. (The Guineapigs)
So remind me again: who are you going to shoot?
Another example of relevance to Slashdotters: SSSCA -> CBDTPA
The only ones who are really affected by inhalation are people who are being shot at.
"Four soldiers from a New York Army National Guard company serving in Iraq are contaminated with radiation likely caused by dust from depleted uranium shells fired by U.S. troops, a Daily News investigation has found.
They are among several members of the same company, the 442nd Military Police, who say they have been battling persistent physical ailments that began last summer in the Iraqi town of Samawah.
"I got sick instantly in June," said Staff Sgt. Ray Ramos, a Brooklyn housing cop. "My health kept going downhill with daily headaches, constant numbness in my hands and rashes on my stomach."
A nuclear medicine expert who examined and tested nine soldiers from the company says that four "almost certainly" inhaled radioactive dust from exploded American shells manufactured with depleted uranium."
Local troops may be victims of america's high-tech weapons
However, it is still my understanding that the NSA goes to great pains to avoid intercepting any communication that comes from a U.S. citizen. They are strictly prohibited from doing so.
Which is why they get the Brits to do it for them.
Duncan Campbell has some interesting things to say about Menwith Hill
I'm an admin in N. Ireland. We noticed this morning that a small percentage of sites were timing out. I contacted our ISP, who confirmed that that there were some problems on the backbone which were related to the fire.
Worldwide, the numbers were unprecented. Within the UK, the second partner in the coalition, the numbers were unprecented. You may be correct in saying the the current anti-war movement in the US has not yet reached the levels it attained in the 60s, but, as many commentators have pointed out, widespread opposition to the Vietnam war did not occur until well into the conflict. Active opposition to the Iraq war, on the other hand, was occurring at a significant level even before the conflict started.
All of these facts support the idea that public awareness of global affairs has become heightened. Indeed, if you speak to activists they will confirm that the internet is an important factor in all of this.
In the West at least, the internet is certainly having a political impact.
It is to be expected that where power is derived form force, the existence of the internet will have little political effect. On the other hand, where power is derived from propaganda the internet will have significant effect. This thesis is borne out if you look at recent political movements in the west, e.g. the anti-globalisation and anti-war movements.
The number of people involved in the anti-war movement in particular was unprecedented, and depended largely for its success on the internet - both as an alternative news source and as a organisational tool.
It means giving the software of your choice the ability to look out for itself, and to vouch for your computer and itself.
Actually, "trusted computing" is specifically designed to restrict the level of access you have to your own machine.
I'm surprised you were unaware of this.