I'm tired of hearing this. There is nothing unsafe about C.
I agree completely... This is the same kind of thinking that people use to try to outlaw guns... "If someone can use it to commit a crime, we should just eliminate them!".
I would say that poor development, insufficient design, (obviously) insufficient testing and a focus on features rather than security are MUCH more to blame for software quality issues than which language was chosen for the implementation.
I still think we should be able to moderate the whole article as a Troll...
Sorry... I was on vacation for a bit... All I was pointing out is that it doesn't matter _when_ (i.e. only on runtime shutdown) the problem occurs. If they won't guarantee it will always run, then I think it sucks.
Yes, 2 seconds for a single finalizer and 40 seconds for all of them. Regardless of when this limit is imposed, this means that finalizers are NOT guaranteed to run. Period.
1) Nope... C#'s "destructor" is unfortunately called that. This, along with the fact that the syntax is the same as C++ destructors has misled C# developers. Your "~Foo()" function is actually just a Finalize method (that's how it's generated in the MSIL code).
2) I'd be surprised if a book published by Microsoft Press about the.NET Framework would have a statement like this just made up, rather than based on fact (Frankly, the timeout MUST exist, or else a single "while(1);" loop in a Finalize method could halt the garbage collector for the whole system)
Also, Java does not guarantee Finalizers will run either.
That is not true. 1) Destructors are called automatically. NOTHING in.NET is guaranteed to be called automatically for destruction. The Dispose method must be called _explicitly_. That is not a destructor.
2) Please cite a source. I believe you are mistaken.
2) There is a time limit for Garbage Collection. I believe it's 40 seconds... If ALL Finalizers are not finished in 40 seconds, it just takes the memory back without calling Finalize.
I get this information from Jeffrey Richter's book "Applied.NET Framework Programming".
Aside: Then of course there's FLOSS, Free / Libre / Open Source Software, which is popular amongst those who know some french, because Libre means "freedom" in french.
Though you are technically correct, "Libre" does mean "freedom" in French, the word was apparently taken from the Spanish "Libre", which means (you guessed it...) "freedom".:-) At least that's what my friend Brad says.
The car could come with a device in the dashboard that would serve up music! The music could be paid for by ADS! Brilliant!
Then, (get this...) we could even offer different types of music all in one package! (maybe we'll call them "channels"... better yet. "stations"!)
Even better... We could hire people to introduce each song so that you would know which artist performed it (THINK of the revenue in CD sales this could generate!!!).
We could even allow record companies to bribe us to play THEIR music! (Ca-ching!!! Hellooooo new beach house!! hehe)
Now, here's the kicker... Who needs a car!?!? We could... (man this is amazing) allow people to... (get this... wait for it...) have one of these things in their OWN HOMES!!! Can you believe it!!!?!?
Think of the possibilities!!
Of course, some people won't want their FREE music. We'll have to have other "stations" that just offer political commentary or jokes... or even crazy antics interspersed between songs!
The possibilities are ENDLESS!!!
I can't BELIEVE nobody's thought of this yet! Maybe the US PTO will let me patent this idea... I don't think anyone's heard of it yet...;-)
Don't they have a *professor* qualified to teach such a course...
Well, I went to a college with an accredited Bachelor's program in Computer Science, and last year one of my professors was shocked to learn that I had done lots of C++ programming in the real world. He had no idea that people were actually using it.
My point: Academics are just that. They usually don't understand the practical aspects of software development.
They are usually caught up so much in theory that I don't think many academics could teach a course in _practical_ application security. The target application would most likely blow past any budget set by any corporation in this economy.
My $0.02. If you don't want it, put it in the "take a penny" tray for the next person..
The US should tax imported "knowledge work". If we add a 100% tax on the money paid _for_ outsourced work (not the money paid _to_ the worker), the "gotcha" of just outsourcing the whole thing to India goes away. We already do this with cars and other manufactured goods. We just need to start applying some old techniques to the new world. Simple... And that way I don't have to give Johnny Five Angels (my Italian-American Union Rep) 10% of my paycheck for nothing.
I didn't learn MS programming when I was in school either, but I certainly used Windows and MS Word for any papers I had to write. I logged onto Windows to do web surfing to research stuff too.
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But Black is not a color. It is the absence of color!
What about GPL'ing your code and letting us have it?
T
How can _anyone_ rate a Fletch quote "Overrated"?? Geez!
T
"No. Provo, Utah". :-)
Maybe you can install VMWare and boot the VMWare session off of the CD... Would that work?
T
That happens when you're being carjacked... the guy whips out a knife and cuts you up... right?
Ahh... the good old days
t
I agree completely... This is the same kind of thinking that people use to try to outlaw guns... "If someone can use it to commit a crime, we should just eliminate them!".
I would say that poor development, insufficient design, (obviously) insufficient testing and a focus on features rather than security are MUCH more to blame for software quality issues than which language was chosen for the implementation.
I still think we should be able to moderate the whole article as a Troll...
T
Sorry... I was on vacation for a bit...
All I was pointing out is that it doesn't matter _when_ (i.e. only on runtime shutdown) the problem occurs. If they won't guarantee it will always run, then I think it sucks.
T
Yes, 2 seconds for a single finalizer and 40 seconds for all of them. Regardless of when this limit is imposed, this means that finalizers are NOT guaranteed to run. Period.
T
1) Nope... C#'s "destructor" is unfortunately called that. This, along with the fact that the syntax is the same as C++ destructors has misled C# developers. Your "~Foo()" function is actually just a Finalize method (that's how it's generated in the MSIL code).
.NET Framework would have a statement like this just made up, rather than based on fact (Frankly, the timeout MUST exist, or else a single "while(1);" loop in a Finalize method could halt the garbage collector for the whole system)
2) I'd be surprised if a book published by Microsoft Press about the
Also, Java does not guarantee Finalizers will run either.
T
That is not true. 1) Destructors are called automatically. NOTHING in .NET is guaranteed to be called automatically for destruction. The Dispose method must be called _explicitly_. That is not a destructor.
2) Please cite a source. I believe you are mistaken.
T
1) There is no "destructor"
.NET Framework Programming".
2) There is a time limit for Garbage Collection. I believe it's 40 seconds... If ALL Finalizers are not finished in 40 seconds, it just takes the memory back without calling Finalize.
I get this information from Jeffrey Richter's book "Applied
T
You beat me to it! :-)
Though you are technically correct, "Libre" does mean "freedom" in French, the word was apparently taken from the Spanish "Libre", which means (you guessed it...) "freedom".
At least that's what my friend Brad says.
T
T
Who cares if one guy is thinking about outlawing SPAM!?
I've been thinking about outlawing Spam too, can I have my own
T
so, if they cut his reads would they finish the sentence for him?
T
For instance, everyone's favorite generator of 'pop-under' ads and Home Phone Line Networking (HPNA) .
Definitely not a new idea, just a grander scale
T
Anyone else read this as GLib?
I need a hobby.
T
The car could come with a device in the dashboard that would serve up music! The music could be paid for by ADS! Brilliant!
Then, (get this...) we could even offer different types of music all in one package! (maybe we'll call them "channels"... better yet. "stations"!)
Even better... We could hire people to introduce each song so that you would know which artist performed it (THINK of the revenue in CD sales this could generate!!!).
We could even allow record companies to bribe us to play THEIR music! (Ca-ching!!! Hellooooo new beach house!! hehe)
Now, here's the kicker... Who needs a car!?!? We could... (man this is amazing) allow people to... (get this
Think of the possibilities!!
Of course, some people won't want their FREE music. We'll have to have other "stations" that just offer political commentary or jokes... or even crazy antics interspersed between songs!
The possibilities are ENDLESS!!!
I can't BELIEVE nobody's thought of this yet! Maybe the US PTO will let me patent this idea... I don't think anyone's heard of it yet...
T
Well, I went to a college with an accredited Bachelor's program in Computer Science, and last year one of my professors was shocked to learn that I had done lots of C++ programming in the real world. He had no idea that people were actually using it.
My point: Academics are just that. They usually don't understand the practical aspects of software development.
They are usually caught up so much in theory that I don't think many academics could teach a course in _practical_ application security. The target application would most likely blow past any budget set by any corporation in this economy.
My $0.02. If you don't want it, put it in the "take a penny" tray for the next person..
T
We already do this with cars and other manufactured goods. We just need to start applying some old techniques to the new world.
Simple...
And that way I don't have to give Johnny Five Angels (my Italian-American Union Rep) 10% of my paycheck for nothing.
T
SO YOU GOD DAMNED MOTHER F*CKER!
I AM RIGHT!
YOU ARE WRONG!
YOU'D BETTER AGREE OR I WILL COME TO YOUR HOUSE AND KILL YOU!!!!!!
Whoa... Umm... sorry about that... that just uh.. happens sometimes... not sure why...
Have a nice day.
T
I didn't learn MS programming when I was in school either, but I certainly used Windows and MS Word for any papers I had to write. I logged onto Windows to do web surfing to research stuff too.