but it's not 3-5 years payback, that's just the payback for the pipes in the ground, you still have to pay for equipment and backhaul, realistically you're looking at more like 7-10 years before break even.
Fiber isn't a 100 year investment, fiber installed 20 years ago almost certainly needs at least servicing to bring it up to current standards. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, it's a great idea to build fiber. What I'm saying is that if you can't rustle up the money to build fiber talk to independent ISPs that might be willing to help.
Other posters are right, most ISP's won't consider a build like this for 22 residents. Cost will vary depending on where you live but I'd guesstimate (knowing nothing about your subdivision, so this is a pretty wild guesstimate) that you're looking at about 100k to build out underground conduit, vaults and building entrances. On top of that they've got to bring backhaul to the neighborhood. Now how much are the 22 residences going to be willing to pay per month? I'm guessing $100/home at the high end. Even without working out the cost of pulling the fiber through that conduit and doing 22 installs and pulling backhaul in you're looking at about 46 months payback. Add in those other costs and you're looking at about 5 years payback on build, that's without factoring in the cost to deliver services over that infrastructure.
Alternatively you could seek out a local WISP and work with them to bring 100Mbps to the neighborhood and distribute it to the 22 homes, you can probably get yourself 10-30Mbps symmetrical service for about $100 a home with no contracts or commitments.
Disclaimer: I am an infrastructure manager for an independent ISP, I have this conversation about 5 times a month with people who "just want fiber"
metered bandwidth doesn't actually make 1 to 1 sense with the cost increases, it just works in the real world as a disincentive for use.
Unlimited internet connections were a great marketing item when there was no readily accessible way for users to saturate their home connections for more than a minute or two.
The whole oversell design for ISPs depends on the concept that only a fraction of your userbase will be using the full bandwidth available to them at any given time. Unfortunately with the rise of streaming services that's no longer the case and so now the oversell ratios that used to be great for ISPs are no longer working.
There are 2 ways to solve this:
1. Build bigger pipes: This is expensive and unless you're building enough capacity so that every user can use their entire connected speed it's not going to be a full solution. It gets you part of the way there though. Unfortunately to do this you'd have to pass heavy costs along to the consumer, this probably won't work as long as the other ISPs are willing to sell the same customer a connection for $30-50/month
2. Get people to use less of the pipe: Go ahead, ask everyone nicely to use less internet, to refrain from streaming netflix, hulu, itunes movies etc.. Good luck with that. The only way to get people to use less bandwidth is to charge for it and make them not want to use it. The goal of these pricing plans isn't to earn money for the bandwidth used, it's to encourage the bandwidth hog users to move to another ISP, thereby making them Comcast or AT&T's problem.
I started with a local ISP in sales and moved through helpdesk and am now managing the department and working as on-call sysadmin and engineer in training, the only thing stopping me from making the jump to full sysadmin/engineer is a lack of desire for that type of work, I prefer to work with the desk monkeys.
I dropped out of community college and worked in construction, only ended up where I am due to an injury that took me out of the construction field.
best thing that ever happened to me.
at least with the ISP I work for we run straight bridged DHCP, so it would be the first device hooked up to the modem, not the modem that pulls the IP.
-Proud to work for an ISP that refuses to hand over ANY information without a solid court order.
I used to feel this way about the noise the floppy drive made on my old 486 during boot, and to a lesser extent the noise made by my old 56k modem during dial/authentication, I remember being weirded out for a while by the v.92 modems, now I'd happily take less noise, Initially I'd probably notice its absence, but I'm sure I could get used to it.
the distinction comes in the fact that this is a voluntary firmware update. I'm no fan of the firmware bricking the phone, but the fact remains that if you're going to hack around with your phone (and i have with mine) then you hav eto decide to either not upgrade it, OR upgrade it and risk brickage.
i'd say most of them pick it because they don't know any better, besides, the setup disc won't help you if you're setting up a router, which is what I was writing for.
this is pretty much right on, the speedstream 4100 (which is what ATT is using right now) does PPPoE on the modem, to run a router you'll want to log into it at 192.168.x.1 (find the x using ipconfig or whatever) click on the advanced button, then on the ppp location button, set to "bridged mode, ppp is not used" and then apply, it might ask for the modem access code which is on a yellow sticker on the underside of the modem. then configure pppoE on your router.
same instructions (minus the router settings) can be used to turn your ATT modem into a modem to be used with you friendly local DSL provider, of which there are many, check dslreports.com to find yours. They're not usually cheaper than ATT, but they're certainly better as far as customer service and support goes. Mine even has an actual store in downtown santa cruz.
Disclaimer, I'm their Tech Support department lead.
the point in TFA was that this blogger had accepted press credentials (usually acceptance of these credentials means you're agreeing to play by the press rules set down by the people giving the credentials) and then violated one of the rules set down (no live coverage). he gets ejected, end of story.
the question of how legal/illegal it is to record and broadcast a sporting event is something else entirely.
One thing I've noticed recently is that there are no XP machines available at retail, I don't remember the XP launch that well (I wasn't shopping for a pc at the time) but i thought there was a period where 2000 or ME machines were still available while XP launched, whereas now that choice has been taken away to force people to vista. Correct me if I'm worng of course.
I work IT for a local ISP and also work on customer computers that come in for repair, and the ones that bring in vista machines all say they wish they'd been able to get an XP machine and go for vista in a year maybe.
I kinda lean towards a voluntary military too, but I'm sure that we could find something for the ones who don't want to be soldiers to do, plenty of civil projects that just need warm bodies right?
I totally agree with most all of your points, with one small caveat, when you say:
~I also happen to agree with the numbers that show that a knowingly armed society has lower rates of violent crime. Yes, you run the risk of individuals making rash/poor/ignorant decisions with accessible weapons, but much of that alleviated on an individual basis through education
I'd prefer that we get the education first, guns second.
As liberal as I am I'd be behind a mandatory 6 months in service, make people do it right oour of high school, give them a semester of credit at ANY college and make sure every single person over the age of 18 knows how to safely handle and maintain a gun, once you finish your x weeks of basic you get to choose to spend the rest of your 6 month term in one of many services, from peace corps type stuff right through actual mil training, how much responsability and respect would we learn then?
total kudos to you for an extremely well reasoned response, I honestly agree with you that that's how the situation would likely play out, except that i believe that any possible revolt would be quickly quashed, so soldiers would never be asked to turn against their families, just against a group of extremist survivalists shcaked up/hiding in the woods of montana (running to the extreme end of the example here) how do those scenarios usually end up? I just think that it's a thin argument for legalizing armalites and mac 10's
"But what if we need to rise up again against some type of authority that abuses its power? What if the day when everyday citizen will need to protect themselves from the authority? Look at what's going on in U.S. today, is it really that unthinkable that we can no longer trust the people who are suppose to be our 'representatives' in the government??"
Do you realistically think that if it comes to us vs the government that a handful of gun club members with colts in the besdide cabinet will be of the slightest use against the national guard or the army? think about the situation you're describing, how many people will take up arms against the government? now think about how many people are employed by the government to bear arms, now imagine those two groups meeting in the street, who'd win?
rising up against the government is such a bullshit reason for owning guns it's ridiculous. the right to bear arms is not infringed, you can totally bear arms in a well organized militia, in fact in the us you have a choice, army, navy, marines, air force, shit, ypu even get paid for it. two hicks in a dodge ram with a gun rack does not make a "well organized militia"
hey me too, where i work (local ISP) we use whatever mail client we like for internal stuff, and probably half the staff still use pine or elm instead of loading thunderbird or something of the ilk.
there are local DSL providers in most markets, but generally they don't have the national ad campaigns that att can afford, check out dslreports.com for good reviews of local providers, in santa cruz, CA for example we have cruzio, who kick major ass
nothing really to stop you, except the difficulty involved in actually opening a british bank account, I had to spend almost 2 years in the uk recently and the hassle involved in opening an account is insane, and that's for someone with a UK passport who can walk into the branch.
I was getting an apartment at the same time and the number of times i heard "well we can't hook up electricity until you have a bank account" or "we need a utility bill to open an account" was just nuts.
isn't gigbit ethernet equipment autosensing by default? i thought part of the standard was including the capability to use a regular ethernet cable or a crossover without having to wire them differently?
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but it's not 3-5 years payback, that's just the payback for the pipes in the ground, you still have to pay for equipment and backhaul, realistically you're looking at more like 7-10 years before break even. Fiber isn't a 100 year investment, fiber installed 20 years ago almost certainly needs at least servicing to bring it up to current standards. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, it's a great idea to build fiber. What I'm saying is that if you can't rustle up the money to build fiber talk to independent ISPs that might be willing to help.
Other posters are right, most ISP's won't consider a build like this for 22 residents. Cost will vary depending on where you live but I'd guesstimate (knowing nothing about your subdivision, so this is a pretty wild guesstimate) that you're looking at about 100k to build out underground conduit, vaults and building entrances. On top of that they've got to bring backhaul to the neighborhood. Now how much are the 22 residences going to be willing to pay per month? I'm guessing $100/home at the high end. Even without working out the cost of pulling the fiber through that conduit and doing 22 installs and pulling backhaul in you're looking at about 46 months payback. Add in those other costs and you're looking at about 5 years payback on build, that's without factoring in the cost to deliver services over that infrastructure. Alternatively you could seek out a local WISP and work with them to bring 100Mbps to the neighborhood and distribute it to the 22 homes, you can probably get yourself 10-30Mbps symmetrical service for about $100 a home with no contracts or commitments. Disclaimer: I am an infrastructure manager for an independent ISP, I have this conversation about 5 times a month with people who "just want fiber"
metered bandwidth doesn't actually make 1 to 1 sense with the cost increases, it just works in the real world as a disincentive for use. Unlimited internet connections were a great marketing item when there was no readily accessible way for users to saturate their home connections for more than a minute or two. The whole oversell design for ISPs depends on the concept that only a fraction of your userbase will be using the full bandwidth available to them at any given time. Unfortunately with the rise of streaming services that's no longer the case and so now the oversell ratios that used to be great for ISPs are no longer working. There are 2 ways to solve this: 1. Build bigger pipes: This is expensive and unless you're building enough capacity so that every user can use their entire connected speed it's not going to be a full solution. It gets you part of the way there though. Unfortunately to do this you'd have to pass heavy costs along to the consumer, this probably won't work as long as the other ISPs are willing to sell the same customer a connection for $30-50/month 2. Get people to use less of the pipe: Go ahead, ask everyone nicely to use less internet, to refrain from streaming netflix, hulu, itunes movies etc.. Good luck with that. The only way to get people to use less bandwidth is to charge for it and make them not want to use it. The goal of these pricing plans isn't to earn money for the bandwidth used, it's to encourage the bandwidth hog users to move to another ISP, thereby making them Comcast or AT&T's problem.
I started with a local ISP in sales and moved through helpdesk and am now managing the department and working as on-call sysadmin and engineer in training, the only thing stopping me from making the jump to full sysadmin/engineer is a lack of desire for that type of work, I prefer to work with the desk monkeys. I dropped out of community college and worked in construction, only ended up where I am due to an injury that took me out of the construction field. best thing that ever happened to me.
at least with the ISP I work for we run straight bridged DHCP, so it would be the first device hooked up to the modem, not the modem that pulls the IP. -Proud to work for an ISP that refuses to hand over ANY information without a solid court order.
I used to feel this way about the noise the floppy drive made on my old 486 during boot, and to a lesser extent the noise made by my old 56k modem during dial/authentication, I remember being weirded out for a while by the v.92 modems, now I'd happily take less noise, Initially I'd probably notice its absence, but I'm sure I could get used to it.
the distinction comes in the fact that this is a voluntary firmware update. I'm no fan of the firmware bricking the phone, but the fact remains that if you're going to hack around with your phone (and i have with mine) then you hav eto decide to either not upgrade it, OR upgrade it and risk brickage.
the modem can do the job fine, it'll do NAT but some people might prefer the features on the router, hence the option,
i'd say most of them pick it because they don't know any better, besides, the setup disc won't help you if you're setting up a router, which is what I was writing for.
this is pretty much right on, the speedstream 4100 (which is what ATT is using right now) does PPPoE on the modem, to run a router you'll want to log into it at 192.168.x.1 (find the x using ipconfig or whatever) click on the advanced button, then on the ppp location button, set to "bridged mode, ppp is not used" and then apply, it might ask for the modem access code which is on a yellow sticker on the underside of the modem. then configure pppoE on your router. same instructions (minus the router settings) can be used to turn your ATT modem into a modem to be used with you friendly local DSL provider, of which there are many, check dslreports.com to find yours. They're not usually cheaper than ATT, but they're certainly better as far as customer service and support goes. Mine even has an actual store in downtown santa cruz. Disclaimer, I'm their Tech Support department lead.
the point in TFA was that this blogger had accepted press credentials (usually acceptance of these credentials means you're agreeing to play by the press rules set down by the people giving the credentials) and then violated one of the rules set down (no live coverage). he gets ejected, end of story. the question of how legal/illegal it is to record and broadcast a sporting event is something else entirely.
One thing I've noticed recently is that there are no XP machines available at retail, I don't remember the XP launch that well (I wasn't shopping for a pc at the time) but i thought there was a period where 2000 or ME machines were still available while XP launched, whereas now that choice has been taken away to force people to vista. Correct me if I'm worng of course.
I work IT for a local ISP and also work on customer computers that come in for repair, and the ones that bring in vista machines all say they wish they'd been able to get an XP machine and go for vista in a year maybe.
I kinda lean towards a voluntary military too, but I'm sure that we could find something for the ones who don't want to be soldiers to do, plenty of civil projects that just need warm bodies right?
I totally agree with most all of your points, with one small caveat, when you say: ~I also happen to agree with the numbers that show that a knowingly armed society has lower rates of violent crime. Yes, you run the risk of individuals making rash/poor/ignorant decisions with accessible weapons, but much of that alleviated on an individual basis through education I'd prefer that we get the education first, guns second. As liberal as I am I'd be behind a mandatory 6 months in service, make people do it right oour of high school, give them a semester of credit at ANY college and make sure every single person over the age of 18 knows how to safely handle and maintain a gun, once you finish your x weeks of basic you get to choose to spend the rest of your 6 month term in one of many services, from peace corps type stuff right through actual mil training, how much responsability and respect would we learn then?
total kudos to you for an extremely well reasoned response, I honestly agree with you that that's how the situation would likely play out, except that i believe that any possible revolt would be quickly quashed, so soldiers would never be asked to turn against their families, just against a group of extremist survivalists shcaked up/hiding in the woods of montana (running to the extreme end of the example here) how do those scenarios usually end up? I just think that it's a thin argument for legalizing armalites and mac 10's
"But what if we need to rise up again against some type of authority that abuses its power? What if the day when everyday citizen will need to protect themselves from the authority? Look at what's going on in U.S. today, is it really that unthinkable that we can no longer trust the people who are suppose to be our 'representatives' in the government??" Do you realistically think that if it comes to us vs the government that a handful of gun club members with colts in the besdide cabinet will be of the slightest use against the national guard or the army? think about the situation you're describing, how many people will take up arms against the government? now think about how many people are employed by the government to bear arms, now imagine those two groups meeting in the street, who'd win? rising up against the government is such a bullshit reason for owning guns it's ridiculous. the right to bear arms is not infringed, you can totally bear arms in a well organized militia, in fact in the us you have a choice, army, navy, marines, air force, shit, ypu even get paid for it. two hicks in a dodge ram with a gun rack does not make a "well organized militia"
hey me too, where i work (local ISP) we use whatever mail client we like for internal stuff, and probably half the staff still use pine or elm instead of loading thunderbird or something of the ilk.
there are local DSL providers in most markets, but generally they don't have the national ad campaigns that att can afford, check out dslreports.com for good reviews of local providers, in santa cruz, CA for example we have cruzio, who kick major ass
nothing really to stop you, except the difficulty involved in actually opening a british bank account, I had to spend almost 2 years in the uk recently and the hassle involved in opening an account is insane, and that's for someone with a UK passport who can walk into the branch. I was getting an apartment at the same time and the number of times i heard "well we can't hook up electricity until you have a bank account" or "we need a utility bill to open an account" was just nuts.
if i had points i'd totally mod you funny, btw bagel and keyboard do not mix, anyone know how to get cream cheese out from between the keys?
i actually had one tell me his name was mike mackenzie, which made me laugh, since he couldn't pronounce mackenzie properly
the morale in the legal department must be top notch, knowing your job is totally secure will do that to you.
interesting, i thought it was accross the board, good to know since i'm currently looking into upgrading my home network to Gig.
isn't gigbit ethernet equipment autosensing by default? i thought part of the standard was including the capability to use a regular ethernet cable or a crossover without having to wire them differently?
hear fecking hear!