And the next thing we will see is beastiality becomming[sic] normal.
It is normal and accepted. In Sweden. And in fact its on the rise over there.
Maybe sex is a choice a 14 year old can not make, because they don't have the maturity to understand what it means.
A mere century ago, the usual age for marraige in most cultures was 12 to 16. Can you explain to me what has changed from that time, besides the views of society?
If you know anything, most catholics register as democrats
Most catholics aren't American.
Maybe if sex is something sacred, then the divorce rate and infidelity would not be so high.
Oh get over yourself. Sex is just a physical activity, the very same as sports. You can play in a team or by yourself, and it releases very much the same hormones. If you mean loving relationships, then yes, perhaps that should be seen as being important. But what would you have us do, codify what exactly qualifies as sex and when people are allowed to have it? One size fits all may be the mantra of the modern corporate, shiny, market-segment and demographically organised world, but believe me the truth isn't that simple. And as for porn, who cares? It's more okay to show a man getting torn limb from limb by explosions than to watch paid professionals do their dance? And if you are whining about impressionable young minds, I suggest that parents take some responsibility for what their children get to see and hear, and stop depending on legislation to do their damn jobs for them. Christ.
You are making out that your apparently severely stunted worldview is the definitive version, and backing up your perspective by hurling accusations of paedophilia, which should be added to the godwins law lexicon of failures in debate. What a boob. Just another troll that knows how to burble a bit of fire and brimstone and get the mob riled up.
A five day old impregnated zygote is smaller than the dot at the end of this sentence.
I don't think the problems were ever biological with this research. Although normally I find myself squarely on the side of scientific method in every discussion (I'm talking to you, creationists), I'm not as certain in this debate. Its a question of spirituality here. The real question is, assuming the presence of an immortal human soul or some kind of presence which exists beyond the failure of the biological support system, at what point does that spirit become attached to the embryo?
I think you'll find very few people with an issue with stem cell testing based on technical grounds, all of the objections are, in the heart of them, spiritual. There is no doubt that in terms of biology, the 5 day old embryo is in no way human. This is not what's up for debate.
I recall reading a story long ago, where earth was at an advanced stage, and was being tested for its fitness to join the "federation" of sentient species. The president was showing the investigators around the achievements and splendours of this hi-tech wonderland, the neatly organised and marvellously efficient society that had been built. The investigator noticed that there was one group that still had old rituals, funerals, and weddings, although the president tried to keep him from seeing them.
At the end of the tour, the president was dumbfounded to be told to return earth to the level of the group that had some level of spirituality, or the planet would be destroyed. Now I'm not advocating any particular group's faith or rituals here, or some atavistic luddite return to the ploughshare and the crozier, just pointing out that we know very very little about the universe and it's nature, all told, and we should take into account that there might in fact be something to these spiritual beliefs, and by ignoring them we might be inviting a far greater disaster than a mere nuclear exchange. And no I'm not talking about aliens blowing up the planet either. I mean only a few short centuries ago, radio waves and electron beam guns would have been invisible witchcraft.
but those embryos are only groups of cells and they would have landed in the sewer if not offered for research.
Because currently they are worthless. But do you really want to create a market for aborted embryos?
So how do human embryos differ from flies and lab rats? In my view of the world, not greatly, but life is a contact sport, and I'll eat beef with the best of them.
This is my second account on/....And yes, I do give a crap about karma.
Heres a hint, mush. Back away from the confuser, open the window, and breathe deep of the fresh air. You might have to get out of the basement in order to do so, but baby steps, baby steps...
I made this account to avoid people like yourself from harrassing me outside of/.
Don't flatter yourself, susan, not only am I in the wrong country, if you really think I could be bothered to harass you, your ego is even more inflated than the previous pseudo-intellectual swaggering indicated. And that takes some doing.
I think I have become a troll here
Well, the first step on the road to recovery is acceptance. Keep it up, we're all behind you!
I'm going to go talk on that other thread where the person has coherent thoughts
The last of which was "my head asplode". At least we now know exactly what passes for coherency in your little world. Its not that I'm dissappointed, I just feel you've let yourself down, more than anything...
Never try to argue with a fool, he'll only try to drag you down to his level and beat you there. You're either a paid shill or a zealot, and it's the essence of futility, like two lubeless lesbians with strap ons trying to do anal, to try to argue with either. I think you're just a fool, myself, (I especially like your utterly fatuous declaration of defeat to MochaMan "You've given me something to think about gyuh huhuhuh!!11! lollers" in the other thread) but I am willing to take votes in this public forum. Any other slashdotters want to step into the breach and give this troll the good solid modding he deserves? Cos I'm betting, judging from your high UID, that you are indeed new around here, and from your paid account, that you actually feel that someone cares what you say on slashdot, and that you give a crap about karma. Unlike me.
Woo, looks like we hit a nerve there. Still, on the plus side, I think the question of who is mad here is definitively answered. Keep in mind it took the grand total of 60 seconds to find those links on google. I expect no less than than a thousand word rebuttal, or I shall be very disappointed, troll! If you like I'll find you more links for you to resoundingly defeat with your impeccable logic, or was that strawman arguments? It's so easy to get those two confused... eh I think you missed a spot of foam at the side of your mouth there...
The chances of getting in a fight in moscow are exponentially higher than most other places with high education levels, whether you are a local or a foreigner.
And on what criteria do people choose to pick fights? On the basis that foreigners are different, probably alone at that moment, have no friends or family nearby, and above all else, are not Russian, they are selected as easy targets faster than anyone else. With foreigners you don't need to have a grudge, just a half an hour of free time. Because they pick the easiest targets. No provocation required.
The real problem will be in the verbal abuse, and ignorance that you will encounter.
So its okay to be black in Russia, as long as you don't talk to anyone and hide in your room? Wonderful.
It is a bad idea to be a tourist anywhere.
What, even in Thailand, where there is an entire police force dedicated to tourists? Or to any of those many countries whose economies are largely dependant upon tourism? Believe it or not, there are many, many places where it is a very good idea to be a tourist. Those who go into places like Paris and London with an attitude will get the reception they deserve.
And in places where the police works, I am likely to just get insults back.
Again, if you go a foreign country and start acting like you own the place, hurling insults, you will definetely get whats coming to you. Russia on the other hand, you don't even need to hurl insults to get beaten up, just be a little different, or a foreigner. All of which simply proves my original point.
Wrong-o, my friend, you see Bush and his cronies don't see the implanting of the number of the beast as a bad thing, because it brings the world one step closer to the events described in revelations, the climax of which is, of course, the ascension of the righteous into heaven.
God help us all, America is in the grip of a madman.
As laudable and all as government efforts to protect their currency are, maybe its about time someone mentioned "digital cameras" to them. As for the exact shade of green being printed, do you think the average shop clerk is qualified to notice the note in his hand isn't the exact hex-reference green as government issue? Never mind the paperless office, I'd say the paperless economy isn't far away. Still, I bet that will make the fundies and their "sign of the beast" contingent happy.
don't think we will still have 2x the economy of biggest competitors in 50 years but I think we are in good long-term shape.
You don't have it now. "Stagnant" Europe has a larger one. God I hate ignorant Americans. And yes it may be flamebait, but theres no one that can say it's offtopic.
So a black person walking on the streat will be looked on with extreme curioisty. Kinda like children stare at red-assed baboons at the zoo.
Oops. Err, guess what, PC or not, that still very offensive. Kind of letting the undershirt show there, I think. I'll tell you what, why don't you share with the rest of us what the Russian slang for black people is, in English?
Immediate violence -- no. (all bets are off in a crowd of drunks)
Ah he's off again. Okay, since you have problems comprehending concepts like this, I am going to spell it out for you. There are no guarantees that you will be attacked, the very same as there are no guarantees you will be hit by a car walking across the freeway. However, I do think we will both agree that it is a very bad idea to be both black and in Russia. Simple enough for you?
They ignore you, refuse to help you, etc
Yes, but how many times did they get into a muttered conference and then mug you? Tourists are the easiest pickings in Moscow, since they have no friends, no family, and no police to defend them. Therefore, to get home the point that you just can't seem to lay your finger on, its a Bad Idea to be a tourist in Moscow. I've been in places as bad as Moscow and worse, including Manila in the Philippines, but nowhere else has that distinct and unique local flavour for casual violence.
It is only what the people can do about it that changes.
So you are saying that without being watched over like noisy children all day every day, mankind degenerates into a brawling fist fight? Bzzzt, news flash here, the civilised world doesn't need to have police on every street corner. Thats why they call it civilised. Unlike Russia, apparently.
My only point is that if you do not speak Russian, and you are on the street talking to your buddy in whatever language, that will not cause anyone to randomly attack you
If your point is that walking down the street speaking French will not result in a beating 100% of the time, well duh. Are your chances exponentially higher of being attacked because you are not a native than potentially any place on earth? Yes. Despite your extremely narrow focus on a very literal interpretation of my words, your point is not unlike saying "well you don't have a 100% chance of being hit by a car if you walk across the freeway." So stop trying to make out Moscow is like anywhere else just colder, because baby, it aint.
From the article I linked to, which by the way emphasises that Irish soccer fans are well known for their good behaviour, and have in fact been praised for it by a wide variety of governments...
"A mob of over 100 Russian people set upon 20 Irish fans, throwing bottles, chairs, firebombs and tables at them. The vicious mob even had blades inserted in their shoes, which they wielded indiscriminately at the Irish fans. This is made more horrific by the fact that it was not spontaneous; it was well organised. The Irish fans had to scramble up trees and over fences as they ran for their lives. One fan was severely beaten when he fell and was attacked by the group. The victims believe that the aim of the attack was to trap the Irish fans in their tent and set fire to it while they were inside."
And it gets better...
"...when the supporters turned to the local police for assistance, the police did nothing for them and even asked them for money. When the ambulance service arrived, the crews laughed at the victims, even though they had been badly beaten."
Would you consider ambulance service crew to be normal people?
Much as I hate to feed trolls, I just can't resist...
Yeah, those damn Irish potato eating drunkards!
Ireland's economy since the forced eviction of the british has been growing at a phenomenal rate, and is now seen as the light of Europe. Google for "celtic tiger". Amazing how a brutal, rapacious occupying force can drive you to drink, eh?
They don't call it a paddy wagon for nothin!
They called it a paddy wagon because it was mostly Irish that were the police.
I doubt its as corrupt, violent, and ceaselessly oppressive as you sugest
Oh, its not wall to wall beady eyes and white knuckles, you can in fact walk down the street, as long as you are white.
I doubt its as corrupt, violent, and ceaselessly oppressive as you sugest
I "sugest" you try living there, learning the language, and meeting the people, living as a Russian, and if you make it back to the civilised world more or less in one piece, then we can talk.
And for the record, no Russian has ever raised his hand against me, although I would be lying to say that I was never threatened. I honestly like Russians, and the feeling so far has been mutual.
just like we don't know Russia, but you do
Autsausi menya, phonetically. Never said I could write it well;-) For a translation, say it to a Russian. I suggest a large, burly one, they do tend to be the best translators...
Having lived in Moscow for a while, and speaking more than a smattering of the language, I do believe firsthand experience trumps it there...;-) I'll check it out though. And whoever modded me flamebait above, they surely weren't Russian, as any Russian would agree with me.
Knowing Russia and Russians, and I do, he probably got his head bashed in after a drunken argument over someones wife, all generally misinterpreted, with the "injured party" sneaking back afterwards with his friends to do the deed. Russia is a squalid, rotten, barbarous country, where extraordinary levels of physical violence are the accepted norm, and you had better know Russian if you go there, tavaresh, because random passers by will beat you if you don't.
I'm not saying they're correct, just that you can't productively form an argument that they'll listen to.
Sure you can. You can point out that their leaders are strutting demagogues whose sole goal is to gain temporal power, tribal chieftains making an inglorious knock kneed grab for mindshare, standing on whatever platform comes first to hand, and using the fears and ignorance of their "flock". I mean, it was never about the science in the first place, really.
In Sweden there is talk about breaking down the barrier between law enforcement and the military.
In Sweden its also legal and permissable to have sex with animals, a practise which is in fact on the rise.
In Italy they're talking about allowing interrogation without a laywer present.
This would be the home of the Mafia, yes? Do you think that might have any bearing on their decisions?
Here in Europe politicians aren't rockstars like they are in the US, and they are hired and fired by the public based on their achievements and progress. Employees of the public, in other words. Each country will find its own answer to the rise of terrorism, and terrorism has been here for a whole lot longer than it has been in the US. One thing I can guarantee you, any state that has watched the events in the US post 11-9 will think long and hard before giving in to them by setting up a patriot act. Assuming the people let them if they tried, of course.
Slashdot Mirror
And the next thing we will see is beastiality becomming[sic] normal.
It is normal and accepted. In Sweden. And in fact its on the rise over there.
Maybe sex is a choice a 14 year old can not make, because they don't have the maturity to understand what it means.
A mere century ago, the usual age for marraige in most cultures was 12 to 16. Can you explain to me what has changed from that time, besides the views of society?
If you know anything, most catholics register as democrats
Most catholics aren't American.
Maybe if sex is something sacred, then the divorce rate and infidelity would not be so high.
Oh get over yourself. Sex is just a physical activity, the very same as sports. You can play in a team or by yourself, and it releases very much the same hormones. If you mean loving relationships, then yes, perhaps that should be seen as being important. But what would you have us do, codify what exactly qualifies as sex and when people are allowed to have it? One size fits all may be the mantra of the modern corporate, shiny, market-segment and demographically organised world, but believe me the truth isn't that simple. And as for porn, who cares? It's more okay to show a man getting torn limb from limb by explosions than to watch paid professionals do their dance? And if you are whining about impressionable young minds, I suggest that parents take some responsibility for what their children get to see and hear, and stop depending on legislation to do their damn jobs for them. Christ.
You are making out that your apparently severely stunted worldview is the definitive version, and backing up your perspective by hurling accusations of paedophilia, which should be added to the godwins law lexicon of failures in debate. What a boob. Just another troll that knows how to burble a bit of fire and brimstone and get the mob riled up.
A five day old impregnated zygote is smaller than the dot at the end of this sentence.
I don't think the problems were ever biological with this research. Although normally I find myself squarely on the side of scientific method in every discussion (I'm talking to you, creationists), I'm not as certain in this debate. Its a question of spirituality here. The real question is, assuming the presence of an immortal human soul or some kind of presence which exists beyond the failure of the biological support system, at what point does that spirit become attached to the embryo?
I think you'll find very few people with an issue with stem cell testing based on technical grounds, all of the objections are, in the heart of them, spiritual. There is no doubt that in terms of biology, the 5 day old embryo is in no way human. This is not what's up for debate.
I recall reading a story long ago, where earth was at an advanced stage, and was being tested for its fitness to join the "federation" of sentient species. The president was showing the investigators around the achievements and splendours of this hi-tech wonderland, the neatly organised and marvellously efficient society that had been built. The investigator noticed that there was one group that still had old rituals, funerals, and weddings, although the president tried to keep him from seeing them.
At the end of the tour, the president was dumbfounded to be told to return earth to the level of the group that had some level of spirituality, or the planet would be destroyed. Now I'm not advocating any particular group's faith or rituals here, or some atavistic luddite return to the ploughshare and the crozier, just pointing out that we know very very little about the universe and it's nature, all told, and we should take into account that there might in fact be something to these spiritual beliefs, and by ignoring them we might be inviting a far greater disaster than a mere nuclear exchange. And no I'm not talking about aliens blowing up the planet either. I mean only a few short centuries ago, radio waves and electron beam guns would have been invisible witchcraft.
but those embryos are only groups of cells and they would have landed in the sewer if not offered for research.
Because currently they are worthless. But do you really want to create a market for aborted embryos?
So how do human embryos differ from flies and lab rats? In my view of the world, not greatly, but life is a contact sport, and I'll eat beef with the best of them.
You lose again.
Troll.
"LOL"...
We got a live one here, folks...
This is my second account on /....And yes, I do give a crap about karma.
/.
Heres a hint, mush. Back away from the confuser, open the window, and breathe deep of the fresh air. You might have to get out of the basement in order to do so, but baby steps, baby steps...
I made this account to avoid people like yourself from harrassing me outside of
Don't flatter yourself, susan, not only am I in the wrong country, if you really think I could be bothered to harass you, your ego is even more inflated than the previous pseudo-intellectual swaggering indicated. And that takes some doing.
I think I have become a troll here
Well, the first step on the road to recovery is acceptance. Keep it up, we're all behind you!
I'm going to go talk on that other thread where the person has coherent thoughts
The last of which was "my head asplode". At least we now know exactly what passes for coherency in your little world. Its not that I'm dissappointed, I just feel you've let yourself down, more than anything...
Never try to argue with a fool, he'll only try to drag you down to his level and beat you there. You're either a paid shill or a zealot, and it's the essence of futility, like two lubeless lesbians with strap ons trying to do anal, to try to argue with either. I think you're just a fool, myself, (I especially like your utterly fatuous declaration of defeat to MochaMan "You've given me something to think about gyuh huhuhuh!!11! lollers" in the other thread) but I am willing to take votes in this public forum. Any other slashdotters want to step into the breach and give this troll the good solid modding he deserves? Cos I'm betting, judging from your high UID, that you are indeed new around here, and from your paid account, that you actually feel that someone cares what you say on slashdot, and that you give a crap about karma. Unlike me.
Troll.
Woo, looks like we hit a nerve there. Still, on the plus side, I think the question of who is mad here is definitively answered. Keep in mind it took the grand total of 60 seconds to find those links on google. I expect no less than than a thousand word rebuttal, or I shall be very disappointed, troll! If you like I'll find you more links for you to resoundingly defeat with your impeccable logic, or was that strawman arguments? It's so easy to get those two confused... eh I think you missed a spot of foam at the side of your mouth there...
The chances of getting in a fight in moscow are exponentially higher than most other places with high education levels, whether you are a local or a foreigner.
And on what criteria do people choose to pick fights? On the basis that foreigners are different, probably alone at that moment, have no friends or family nearby, and above all else, are not Russian, they are selected as easy targets faster than anyone else. With foreigners you don't need to have a grudge, just a half an hour of free time. Because they pick the easiest targets. No provocation required.
The real problem will be in the verbal abuse, and ignorance that you will encounter.
So its okay to be black in Russia, as long as you don't talk to anyone and hide in your room? Wonderful.
It is a bad idea to be a tourist anywhere.
What, even in Thailand, where there is an entire police force dedicated to tourists? Or to any of those many countries whose economies are largely dependant upon tourism? Believe it or not, there are many, many places where it is a very good idea to be a tourist. Those who go into places like Paris and London with an attitude will get the reception they deserve.
And in places where the police works, I am likely to just get insults back.
Again, if you go a foreign country and start acting like you own the place, hurling insults, you will definetely get whats coming to you. Russia on the other hand, you don't even need to hurl insults to get beaten up, just be a little different, or a foreigner. All of which simply proves my original point.
Well I never made any particular claims to sanity, as it turns out, but at least I'm not an utter fool, know what I mean?
Wrong-o, my friend, you see Bush and his cronies don't see the implanting of the number of the beast as a bad thing, because it brings the world one step closer to the events described in revelations, the climax of which is, of course, the ascension of the righteous into heaven.
God help us all, America is in the grip of a madman.
As laudable and all as government efforts to protect their currency are, maybe its about time someone mentioned "digital cameras" to them. As for the exact shade of green being printed, do you think the average shop clerk is qualified to notice the note in his hand isn't the exact hex-reference green as government issue? Never mind the paperless office, I'd say the paperless economy isn't far away. Still, I bet that will make the fundies and their "sign of the beast" contingent happy.
don't think we will still have 2x the economy of biggest competitors in 50 years but I think we are in good long-term shape.
You don't have it now. "Stagnant" Europe has a larger one. God I hate ignorant Americans. And yes it may be flamebait, but theres no one that can say it's offtopic.
So a black person walking on the streat will be looked on with extreme curioisty. Kinda like children stare at red-assed baboons at the zoo.
Oops. Err, guess what, PC or not, that still very offensive. Kind of letting the undershirt show there, I think. I'll tell you what, why don't you share with the rest of us what the Russian slang for black people is, in English?
Immediate violence -- no. (all bets are off in a crowd of drunks)
Ah he's off again. Okay, since you have problems comprehending concepts like this, I am going to spell it out for you. There are no guarantees that you will be attacked, the very same as there are no guarantees you will be hit by a car walking across the freeway. However, I do think we will both agree that it is a very bad idea to be both black and in Russia. Simple enough for you?
They ignore you, refuse to help you, etc
Yes, but how many times did they get into a muttered conference and then mug you? Tourists are the easiest pickings in Moscow, since they have no friends, no family, and no police to defend them. Therefore, to get home the point that you just can't seem to lay your finger on, its a Bad Idea to be a tourist in Moscow. I've been in places as bad as Moscow and worse, including Manila in the Philippines, but nowhere else has that distinct and unique local flavour for casual violence.
It is only what the people can do about it that changes.
So you are saying that without being watched over like noisy children all day every day, mankind degenerates into a brawling fist fight? Bzzzt, news flash here, the civilised world doesn't need to have police on every street corner. Thats why they call it civilised. Unlike Russia, apparently.
My only point is that if you do not speak Russian, and you are on the street talking to your buddy in whatever language, that will not cause anyone to randomly attack you
If your point is that walking down the street speaking French will not result in a beating 100% of the time, well duh. Are your chances exponentially higher of being attacked because you are not a native than potentially any place on earth? Yes. Despite your extremely narrow focus on a very literal interpretation of my words, your point is not unlike saying "well you don't have a 100% chance of being hit by a car if you walk across the freeway." So stop trying to make out Moscow is like anywhere else just colder, because baby, it aint.
From the article I linked to, which by the way emphasises that Irish soccer fans are well known for their good behaviour, and have in fact been praised for it by a wide variety of governments...
"A mob of over 100 Russian people set upon 20 Irish fans, throwing bottles, chairs, firebombs and tables at them. The vicious mob even had blades inserted in their shoes, which they wielded indiscriminately at the Irish fans. This is made more horrific by the fact that it was not spontaneous; it was well organised. The Irish fans had to scramble up trees and over fences as they ran for their lives. One fan was severely beaten when he fell and was attacked by the group. The victims believe that the aim of the attack was to trap the Irish fans in their tent and set fire to it while they were inside."
And it gets better...
"...when the supporters turned to the local police for assistance, the police did nothing for them and even asked them for money. When the ambulance service arrived, the crews laughed at the victims, even though they had been badly beaten."
Would you consider ambulance service crew to be normal people?
However, they will steal your wallet.
Not that I was there, but if by steal your wallet you mean drive you into a tent and try to set it on fire, you are absoloutely right...
Much as I hate to feed trolls, I just can't resist...
;-) For a translation, say it to a Russian. I suggest a large, burly one, they do tend to be the best translators...
Yeah, those damn Irish potato eating drunkards!
Ireland's economy since the forced eviction of the british has been growing at a phenomenal rate, and is now seen as the light of Europe. Google for "celtic tiger". Amazing how a brutal, rapacious occupying force can drive you to drink, eh?
They don't call it a paddy wagon for nothin!
They called it a paddy wagon because it was mostly Irish that were the police.
I doubt its as corrupt, violent, and ceaselessly oppressive as you sugest
Oh, its not wall to wall beady eyes and white knuckles, you can in fact walk down the street, as long as you are white.
I doubt its as corrupt, violent, and ceaselessly oppressive as you sugest
I "sugest" you try living there, learning the language, and meeting the people, living as a Russian, and if you make it back to the civilised world more or less in one piece, then we can talk. And for the record, no Russian has ever raised his hand against me, although I would be lying to say that I was never threatened. I honestly like Russians, and the feeling so far has been mutual.
just like we don't know Russia, but you do
Autsausi menya, phonetically. Never said I could write it well
Having lived in Moscow for a while, and speaking more than a smattering of the language, I do believe firsthand experience trumps it there... ;-) I'll check it out though. And whoever modded me flamebait above, they surely weren't Russian, as any Russian would agree with me.
Knowing Russia and Russians, and I do, he probably got his head bashed in after a drunken argument over someones wife, all generally misinterpreted, with the "injured party" sneaking back afterwards with his friends to do the deed. Russia is a squalid, rotten, barbarous country, where extraordinary levels of physical violence are the accepted norm, and you had better know Russian if you go there, tavaresh, because random passers by will beat you if you don't.
The spamming was probably just incidental.
Where is the "-1, incoherent" mod when you need it...
I'm not saying they're correct, just that you can't productively form an argument that they'll listen to.
Sure you can. You can point out that their leaders are strutting demagogues whose sole goal is to gain temporal power, tribal chieftains making an inglorious knock kneed grab for mindshare, standing on whatever platform comes first to hand, and using the fears and ignorance of their "flock". I mean, it was never about the science in the first place, really.
A weather checking widget? Check. But I have a web browser with a tab to my local weather up at all times anyway.
Wow. Slashdotters are the only people that when you say "open the window" to they immediately turn to their computers.
We'll see about that.
In Sweden there is talk about breaking down the barrier between law enforcement and the military.
In Sweden its also legal and permissable to have sex with animals, a practise which is in fact on the rise.
In Italy they're talking about allowing interrogation without a laywer present.
This would be the home of the Mafia, yes? Do you think that might have any bearing on their decisions?
Here in Europe politicians aren't rockstars like they are in the US, and they are hired and fired by the public based on their achievements and progress. Employees of the public, in other words. Each country will find its own answer to the rise of terrorism, and terrorism has been here for a whole lot longer than it has been in the US. One thing I can guarantee you, any state that has watched the events in the US post 11-9 will think long and hard before giving in to them by setting up a patriot act. Assuming the people let them if they tried, of course.