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RFID Tags To Track Foreigners, Identify Dead
An anonymous reader writes "U.S. security officials say they will use RFID technology at border posts with Canada and Mexico to track foreigners driving in and out of the United States. A Department of Homeland Security spokesman said wireless chips for vehicles would become mandatory at designated border crossings in Canada and Mexico as of Aug. 4. At the same time, British officials are considering using RFID chips to identify the dead in the wake of a disaster." From the British article: "...following the bomb blasts on the London Underground, the process of identifying some bodies - particularly on the deep-lying Piccadilly Line - became very difficult, with some families upset by the amount of time it took to confirm a relative had died. VeriChip advocates argue it could help in these circumstances. "
Does anyone else think this is a bit over the top? I mean, I usually think most pro-privacy people are a bit extreme, and I don't care if the government has a record of my existence, but making foreigners use RFID tags? I don't know about that one..
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security will install radio frequency technology at five border posts with Canada and Mexico to track foreigners driving in and out of North America.
It will start with only five, pushing those that really want to get in to the other posts that do not issue the tags. It could also create a situation where potential criminals would leave their tagged car parked at a metropolitan hotel and use mass transit or even steal a completely different car so that they would be able to continue their mission without being tracked. This plan accomplishes nothing but making RFID
tags seem like a viable terrorism fighting tool. Thanks for yet another worthless band-aid that is only meant to ease the public's notion of what RFIDs do.
The mandatory program will apply, however, to all foreigners with U.S. visas--including those from the 27 countries whose citizens don't need visas for short U.S. visits--who cross into the United States at those points.
Of course this only applies to everyone else and not US Citizens. First they came for foo, then they came for you, and because skewed data about these tags seem to make our country safer we will be "asked" to add them to our cars so that the government can track if someone else commits a crime w/our automobile...then they came for me as I was the only one left.
As long as they keep tightening the reigns under the guise of "stopping terrorism" the sheep will continue to herd happily under the darkening skies.
from my cold dead fingers!
My other sig is extremely clever...
This whole concept scares me. It's ramifications could extend well beyond assisting with finding bodies. I for one don't want the government tracking my every move. Talk about losing civil rights.
"Simplify, simplify, simplify!" Thoreau
no thanks. the way i'm going to avoid not being recognizable when i die, is to die around friends, peacefully. it may be hard, but its better to fight for peace than war.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Inject chip into arm.
...
Find armless body at bomb site
*DrugCheese rants*
Here, carry this RFID tag so that when you're killed in a terrorist attack, we can find and identify your body. Right.
If you're really worried about being identified when you've been blown up, then wear dog tags.
The idea of implanting a chip that can be surreptitiously read at any time is just stupid, frankly.
Plant an RFID chip in every person and track their movements over their entire life so that it's easier to identify them once they die. Makes sense to me...
Actually, this would be ok as long as the chip DIDN'T respond until you died...but I don't think it is possible to engineer that requirement with today's technology. Besides that, if you get blown up the chip is only going to identify the body part where it resides. Of course, if it resides in a critical body part and that part is no longer attached to the rest of you body then it would probably be safe to assume you were dead...
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
I'm sure most remember the movie Demolition Man.
Looks like we might be getting closer to that with this kind of technology.
I also remember mention that some in California were talking about revoking the Act that would keep Schwartzeneger out of office.
The whole thing is a tid too "big brother" me.
...tatoo'd on your forarm or torso (base of neck, maybe?) for dead body IDs. It requires no expensive reader or propritary implant. But that's not very techological, and not politically correct.
Same thing, different method.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
The only way it would work as a process is if every foreigner dutifully keeps their document during their whole stay in the US. What if you lose your paper? Any penalty? And exactly what does the RFID chip accomplish? Everyone still has to check in and check out. So it makes it more convenience for the border patrol? If you are a terrorist, are you going to carry an RFID chip just to make the border patrol's job easier? Why not steal someone else's chip? Does the process compare the RFID data with their other papers? If not, it doesn't matter what chip you have as long as you have one. And this program costs $500,000 annually per criminal that has been nabbed to date? Wow.
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
The problem is the slippery slope. How would RFID have helped identify those poor victims in the London underground? Only if they had RFID embedded in them in the first place. So in essence that is what they are arguing for. It usually begins, "Just think of the chiiiiildren!" with visions of kidnapping scares. Nowadays it's the "but what about terrorism???" scare.
Yes, embedding RFID in every person on earth would aid law enforcement quite a bit. It would help you keep track of your kids, and you could Lojack them if they were ever kidnapped. On the other hand, just think how nice it would be for the government to track everyone they view as a dissident, or an environmentalist, or a Democrat (oh wait, it hasn't reached that point...yet). Just think how marketers would love to be able to track your movement so as to show you an ad as you approached their kiosk or store or billboard. Just think how useful this will be to stalkers!
You can make an entirely safe populace by placing everyone in solitary confinement in a vast prison system. But is that really what you want? Similarly here, there are indeed advantages to RFIDing the populace. But can we please think about all of the implications, and not just listen to industry arguments?
Big Brother doesn't even need to watch you anymore.
I wonder how long these RFID tags work. How do they get their energy?
If it was possible to create a tag that would dissolve in the body after a certain period of time, you wouldn't be marked for life. The casing could dissolve, and then body fluids should impair the chip, so it stops functioning.
Just because another asshole corporation wants guaranteed profit at the expense of the Taxpayer. And Georgie is all too happy to go along. It is his main purpose for being in the position he's in now.
Mum is a psychologist. One of the symptoms common to many schizophrenic patients is the rants they go on about "being watched" all the time by use of implanted tracking chips.
Looks like we're all paranoids now.
Welcome to the fourth reich.....
Stupid Humans.....
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
...But the government aren't too interested in my cat.
Err, wouldn't being able to identify the dead involve implanting the chip while the person was alive?
This would give the government and corporate entities years of alive time to abuse privacy using this chip before (if) it was needed to identify your body in case of a tragedy. Where are the privacy advocates in this?
I think it is fairly cynical of VeriChip to use a tragedy like this to drum up business. Akin to the undertaker measuring the gunfighter for a suit in the movies just before the showdown...
--Storm
Lobbying congress for RFID initiatives : : :
$200,000,000
350 million RFID chips
3,500,000,000$
Tracking the location of every single potential customer at any time you wish
priceless
Some things just can't be bought. For everything else, there's dirty politics.
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
Identifying dead by looking at their RFID-tag(s) is an invitation to fake deaths. Just don't give politicians technology. They don't know anything about it and are bound to find the stupid, wrong and useless applications.
Why not? They're already doing it for dogs. Now if only we could implant GPS tracking as well...
...if they're frequent travelers and they've already been cleared and their data is fine, then they can move through it much more quickly
Isn't this the sort of thing that has caused problems in the past? If we just begin to accept travelers who frequent the country as "safe" then we're leaving ourselves open to counterfiting and other trickery. It makes much more sense to take a fresh look at every person crossing the borders.
Not to mention the fact that our government wouldn't be tracking every move by these travelers. This would more likely be used to find a perpitrator after a major event already happened! So how exactly does this help?
More bullshit about how "9/11 changed everything". The planebombers used real IDs - obscuring their identity wasn't an obstacle to catching them. Bad guys crossing the border will obviously just switch cars to avoid RFID detection.
This RFID program is yet another way to follow the government's failure to protect us from 9/11 with their own attacks on our freedom. It's welfare for security/defense corporations, privacy invasion for the fascists, more terror to keep us scared and manageable, and a tech smokescreen to cover the fact that they're not actually doing enough to actually protect us from the real threats. WHERE'S OSAMA? How about forcing Pakistan to put an RFID chip into everyone caught crossing the Afghani border? Then we might actually catch some terrorists. And the idea of the government forcing innocent people to be dehumanized into a number could instead be experimented on a some people who we would otherwise just shoot, in the old dehumanizing calculus of war.
--
make install -not war
Besides, if ID cards and fingerprinting did come in, they could simply fingerprint the corpses to find out who they are. Perhaps they can list this as one the "advantages" of forcing through this white elephant.
I for one welcome our new american overlords.
From TFA:
Even with the radio frequency technology, however, the vehicle will still have to stop. If a person's identifying data produce no red flags, they will get just a cursory check at the border rather than lengthy questioning.
What a fucking joke.
If the President is allowed to know exactly where my butt is at any one time, will I, his employer, be able to track where his butt is at any one time? No? Then buzz off.
The problem with all this surveillance and Big Brother stuff is that it does nothing to deter the determined malefactor. It will only erase the freedom and privacy of the innocent. And the more of this crap they push through, the more of the innocent will get fed up and become malefactors because the government will not listen. Imagine dozens of Timothy McVeighs striking everywhere, without warning.
This is the wrong road to be heading down, folks.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
This sounds like a way to make insurance fraud easier. Just take out your RFID chip, put it in someone else's dead body. Why bother even checking dental records? The "Computer" is always right.
-- Dan
The need for precautionary systems has been driven by one terrorist attack in the last 5 years (correct me if I'm wrong, but I've known of no other terrorist movement on US grounds since September 11th), hardly an adequate cause to introduce asburd technologies which track foreigners throughout the country.
Tell the guard your visiting Maine, and you head to California? What then?
I look across the border and see an unfortunately large group of people bound by the paranoia and fear induced by a single terrorist attack. All this nonsense about tracking tags is perfect for making a terrorists day that much more enjoyable.
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.
Plot Outline: Set in a world with memory implants, Robin Williams plays a cutter, someone with the power of final edit over people's recorded histories. His latest assignment is one that puts him in danger.
Tinfoil hats for everyone!
Content Management System: A pretentious way of saying "text editor."
Wouldn't that be fun, the cops could key your RFID tag signal into their guns, make aiming a whole lot easier. I bet they could even kill you with robots while you were trying to get on the subway, not even have to use real cops anymore.
visit me at www.longdead.net
Gimmie a break.
This is a non-issue. The VIN number is just as unique and probably harder to remove than the RFID chip on a vehicle.
The ONLY difference is the chip can be read by waving a wand or a stationary dectector rather than having some border guard monkey write it down.
If anything, the chips will make it easier for people who would ordinarily have to wait in line do their legit business.
Say everyone has RFID somehow embedded. If the "bad guys" devise a method of reading nearby RFID info and determining who is who and from where, it gives them a choice of when to self-kablooey for the most political points. A mad bomber can kick back and ride the bus until US Citizen number 20 gets on, even if said citizen is not in the telltale A&F clothing that screams out "I drive a blood-for-oil-mobile and want everyone to join my right-wing faith by force."
I'll be your candy shop of infinite deliciousity if you'll be my discotheque of endless rump-shaking.
The article does not say that British officials want to use them - it says that corporation that manufactures the chips thinks it would be good idea!
Yup. It almost seems that the underlying message is that tourism is a threat to national security and should be outlawed. Obviously the whole tourist industry would be seriously pissed if it were just outlawed and tourists barred entry, but fingerprint them, tag them, etc, and eventually they'll clue in and just stop coming.
I had a trip down there (I'm in Canada) planned for November but forget it. I get the message. I doubt the economy of California will collapse for my not going, but I also doubt I'm the only one who will regard this as a discouragement to visit.
Loose lips lose spit.
I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
_________________________________
If ever there was a need for someone who had the insight that this man had, now is the time.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
You have heard it all before, but when stories like this come up, you say, yeah yeah, right as if.
When you are sipping your complimentary drink, with your new verisign chip, you will be saying, yeah yeah, as if.
Sad but true. But listen to their site 'Come and Get Chipped!!!'
Humans, nothing more than a number.
To confirm you're not a script,
please type the word in this image: renewed
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
If you're British, join the No2id campaign. http://www.pledgebank.com/resist for a start.
The FBI can get a warrant to track somebody by using LOJACK, which many cars already have.
Terrorists won't come through the security checkpoint. They'll just walk or drive through one of the many thousands of unguarded areas on the Mexican and Canadian border.
... is that both Canada and Mexico are also in North America - this only tracks drivers crossing the borders of the USA :-p. I wonder if they know that Quebec isn't actually a part of Europe...
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead! No really, we KNOW they're in there.
-stupidbutcouldn'tresist
Should I get conclusively killed... pardon me, but why should I care about getting identified? I would be dead -- and care very little indeed.
---------
As for harrassing foreign visitors... it makes them stay away.
-- Those who desire less visitors will approve.
-- Those who desire more visitors will oppose.
-- Some foreign countries will respond selectively in kind (track US visitors with RFID chips).
-- Those who don't care... will objectively consider if such tracking is reasonable, and conclude: this is stupid.
Honestly, the chance of being in one of these major terrorism attacks or natural disasters is very slim....Even compared to shark attacks or lotto wins.
:)
Are people going to trade a heap of privacy, for such a tiny gain?
Life Insurance Company: Well sir we'd like you to have one of these in your arm, just in case you fall into that 1 in a billion group... You just never know.
Area51 - We are watching...
Four legs good (humans),
two legs better (citizens)!
Laboratree - Scientific collaboration based on OpenSocial.
Oh, this is a good thing, because it will help parents track their children. Think about the children!
Oh, this is a good thing, because it will help keep track OF THE DAMN POLITICAL OPPONENTS WHO DARE QUESTION WHAT WE SAY AND DO! THINK ABOUT THE REGIME!
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
Use these to track politicians.
If there's one group in this society I don't trust...
Dont worry, the EMP blast will whipe out all RFID chips in the area when I off myself.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Between tracking Foreigner and The Dead, it seems like the 70's are alive and well in the USA.
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
"The American Civil Liberties Union has expressed concern that the program violates privacy rights for "third country nationals" who fall under the program." Great.. the ACLU is no longer content with being the 'American Civil Liberties Union' and the 'Defeat Religon Union' and the 'What Morality Union?' ... now they want to be the 'Third Country Nationals Union' too....
They can chip my cold dead body when I am done with it.
So VeriChip is still looking for ways to sell us on putting an rfid in every human being. Sigh. Once authorities start to really depend on it, it'll make it that much easier to switch identities or fake one's death. Think of the fun we could have.
Along the same lines, Let's see a show of hands: How many people do *not* think that Digital Angel will lead to a rash of back-seat, septic surgeries in kidnap cases?
Ron
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
me: Over my dead body! coroner: No, it goes inside your dead body.
The Dead Collector: Bring out yer dead. [a man puts a body on the cart]
Large Man with Dead Body: Here's one.
The Dead Collector: That'll be ninepence.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not dead.
The Dead Collector: What?
Large Man with Dead Body: Nothing. There's your ninepence.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not dead. The Dead Collector: 'Ere, he says he's not dead.
Large Man with Dead Body: Yes he is.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not.
The Dead Collector: He isn't.
Large Man with Dead Body: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm getting better.
Large Man with Dead Body: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment.
The Dead Collector: Well, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I don't want to go on the cart.
Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, don't be such a baby.
The Dead Collector: I can't take him.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I feel fine.
Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, do me a favor.
The Dead Collector: I can't.
Large Man with Dead Body: Well, can you hang around for a couple of minutes? He won't be long.
The Dead Collector: I promised I'd be at the Robinsons'. They've lost nine today.
Large Man with Dead Body: Well, when's your next round?
The Dead Collector: Thursday.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I think I'll go for a walk.
Large Man with Dead Body: You're not fooling anyone, you know. Isn't there anything you could do?
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I feel happy. I feel happy.
[the Dead Collector glances up and down the street furtively, then silences the Body with his a whack of his club]
Large Man with Dead Body: Ah, thank you very much.
The Dead Collector: Not at all. See you on Thursday.
Large Man with Dead Body: Right.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Making the world safe for dictatorship since 2001! Seriously though stop and think about it. Prior to 9/11 America was importing engineers and researchers to keep its tech economy going. A little bit of paranoia and a foreigner coming to America has to worry about getting dissappeared down to Gitanamo. Blow up a subway somewhere every time the paranoia level starts to drop. Keep it up long enough and the brain drain as foreign professionals leave the country/decide not to come and you have a nice economic implosion. Ben Lauden gets what he wants, ane end to the American era, China and Europe get that to. Unfortunately the current administration can't see what's right in front of their face. Hum I wonder if the FBI is going to investigate me for this post.
Come on, lets have some fun with this! :->
At least we can give people a choice.
"And he [the beast or anti-christ] causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no-one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast for it is the number of a man: his number is 666".
Revelations 13; 16-18
I hope the RFID chip gets implanted somewhere superficial and unimportant so that criminals don't need to hurt me too much to steal my RFID chip.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
I'm quite happy up here in Canada and this would just give me further reason to not go to or through the US. I hope most Canadian's will have the same attitude towards this.
"The British plan"
Actually, reading the article, this has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with anyone British (official or not), beyond a stupid BBC journalist (we've got a lot of them).
All of this reliance on RFIDs for identity seems strange to me...
What's to stop people from cloning these things? Either cloning their docs and selling them to others for whatever reason... or worse - reading and cloning the chip of some iunnocent bystander?
Didn't the national ID legislation passed recently require RFID?
What if someone walking past you on the street reads your ID, clones it, then commits a crime? What happens to you next time you take a trip to Toronto or go through a toll booth or whatever?
This space available.
...which has a chip inside. If not used at least once everyday the chip will issue a recall signal and the Feds will come and collect you. This way we get to track all visitors while the daily expenditure also gives an economic lift to the economy. The chip remembers the days allowed in the US and also gives off a signal when beyond that date. It also requires increased expenditure each subsequent week while the Feds find you. Again this raises the economic benefit to the US.
> VeriChip advocates argue it could help in these circumstances.
uh? wouldn't exploding the device void the warranty?
anyway, i for one welcome our verichip sellers overlords
I think we should all just shave our heads and tattoo UPC bar codes up there. Then they can just set up grocery store scanners at every building entrance. When we file in we get the obligatory 'bleep.. bleep...' from the check out isle we all know and love.
This RFID thing won't fly because we are no longer fighting a global war on terrorism. We are fighthing a "Global Struggle Against Extreme Ideologies" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4719169.stm
So, since we're not fighting a global war on terror anymore, but are instead struggling against the actions of extremists, doesn't this make the need for RFID tags on dead bodies and foreigners dissapear?
Of course not, because it's all about the power. If every geek on slashdot left his parents' basement and revolted, you'd only get a boot to the fucking neck. That's the way these folks roll, get used to it. "Ich bin ein berliner!"
we make employers pay stiff fines for hiring illegal aliens.
Until then, we may as well pretend that we're doing something by putting RFID tags on Toyotas.
Having lived in the car-theft capitol of the world, El Paso Texas, I'd like to see a VOLUNTARY program for RFID "the other way around" at border checkpoints. May I volunteer to have an RFID tag on my car; that tag is scanned at any/all Bridges to Mexico; my car is NOT ALLOWED across the border. Should I ever want to go, I will either use mass transit, or a pre-arranged (web based) way to temporarily authorize my tag. Absolutely voluntary; all the gov has to do is install the readers and run a simple web site; this can all be contracted out...
I for myself would prefer to carry an RFID tag changing everyday, following a encrypted sequence. I cannot be identified with this tag if I'm alive, but if I am dead on do not log on a "I'm not dead" place the encrypting key is revealed and my body can be found.
What do you mean too geeky ?
\u262D = \u5350
please report to your local tagging station at OUR earliest convenience.
you have the choice of several attractive desgns: simple numeric tattoo, arm implant or yellow star. take your pick.
please make sure that at no point you beleive that the reason people want to kill YOU is because of OUR disasterous foriegn policy. no sir
repeat after me:
they hate you for your freedom
they hate you for your freedom
they hate you for your freedom
so you see, after we have removed all your freedoms, they will no longer hate you.
..some families upset by the amount of time it took to confirm a relative had died. VeriChip advocates argue it could help in these circumstances.
Nothing quite like the profit potential of a horrible disaster..
Starsucks
...French officials are trying figure out what RFID tags are and whether they should surrender to them.
I work for an agency under Department of Defense as (among other things) the RFID go-to guy for the agency.
;-)
;-)
Passive RFID tags have a maximum range of about ten meters on their best day - to be able to read the things mostly error-free we're talking about ranges from one inch to one meter.
Also, passive tags need to be read by a handheld reader or passed through an RFID portal to be read - at the current level of technology they can't be read by satellites, honest
Active RFID tags have a range of 50 to 100 meters, but they're also battery-powered, huge and heavy. An active RFID tag is about 2"x3" and about ten inches long. Weighs about a pound and as I said, has a replaceable battery about the size of a AA cell. I don't think we could convince folks to wear them around their necks.
I can see how placing a tag on a body can keep the body from being counted twice - I don't see the advantage to tagging automobiles, though. If you're gonna have to get within three feet of the vehicle to read the RFID tag it seems to me you oughtta just record the VIN instead
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
I was hoping to one day visit some of the interesting sites in the US. Guess I won't be doing that anytime soon. Ahh well, whole lot of world to see outside the US.
--- I used to moderate, then I read the -1 articles and decided having to filter through them was not worth it.
C'mon mods, I'm one overrated away from a -1 insightful.
/. rulebook handy)
BTW - does a -1, Insightful or a +5, Troll count if you posted AC? (I don't have my
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Were in North America... I guess the new definition does not include us...
From TFA
---
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security will install radio frequency technology at five border posts with Canada and Mexico to track foreigners driving in and out of North America.
---
I don't know what else to say... the Article speaks for itself.
J.T.Titor said that in the future, people will think that in the XXI century people were so clueless about tecnology that they used to belive that giving tiny pieces of eletronical equipament to their dead would make them find the way to ascencion or something.
A company sells a device read hundreds of license plates an hour at freeway speeds. This company orignally manufactured mail-sorting machines where envolopes which flash by at about that rate. My state has purchased a few for evaluation. Its been an eye-opener in how many illegally licensed cars or drivers are out on the highway.
Whith such a machine you dont have to install tags for each car or buy reading machines. It is very portable. Crooks can disguise both RFIDs and license plates if so motivated.
No, I think that you will find us old-timers fighting against this. With it, the gov. can track your every move. Go though a toll-road exchange, and the rfid records you. Go to the airport, and when you go through security, they know. My guess is that stores will move to rfid to handle their security. In doing so, the gov. will come into stores, and tell them that they need access to the computer - remotely. At that point, if you use a store, as you walk through the ant-theft, the feds. are notified.
And for those of you who say that it can never happen, well, I know ppl who are much older than myself. And they will tell you that we could never be attacked. Likewise, we would never allow a universal ID (drivers license). And they would tell you that the gov. would never be allowed to have an unlimited warrent. etc. etc.
And I knew a few that would tell that republicans would never break any law. They would never do break-ins or do cover up. Likewise, they would never trade hostages for guns. Nor would any American government keep a traitor in the white house who would out a CIA agent to help their own party; They all know that citizens come above party politics. Yes, these dead ppl knew that are gov. would not be like that. And yet, here we stand.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
1. find a car with a known-good RFID tag and steal it.
2. sneak into the U.S., avoiding being questioned.
3. ???
4. **Kaboom!**
To get something done, a committee should consist of no more than three persons, two of them absent.
Quote from TFA:
"So for my personal goal of being identified in the case of an accident, it does work for me."
Yeah, if someone decides to try swiping a RFID reader over your charred remains to ID them. Which isn't terribly likely, since you're the only idiot in the world who has a RFID chip in his arm.
While we're at it, lets figure the odds of RFID chips surviving some disaster that will destroy fingerprints and dental records.
It's the land of the brave, and the home of the free
Where the less you know, the better off you'll be.
It has been proposed before...
But then again Captain Cyborg has nothing but high hopes for himself
'Warwick is the man who has declared: "I want to do something with my life; I want to be a cyborg."'
I had a trip down there (I'm in Canada) planned for November but forget it. I get the message.
FYI, Canadians and Mexicans don't get tagged, only non-Canadians coming in through Canada do (same for Mexico).
Dang, you think they'ld get a spell checker at the government. First they screw up the whole Iran and Iraq threat. Now it's terrorists and tourists.
This is getting so bloody tiresome.
They say that when you start treading on the freedoms of the people, that it never truly ends. Big Brother will always want to know more. This is setting a very dangerous marker in US policy. US citizens may not be required to have this tracking technology present in their lives yet, but give it time... it'll soon be a present and completely invasive reality. If ever there was a time to call the Government to task for their actions, it is now.
Tourism, business, science,... you name it.
I, for one, would love to visit USA on a business trip, to participate in certain world class scientific conferences that are annually held over there and meet the colleagues I've got over there. However, even today I would have to submit my fingerprints and maybe some biometric information to enter which, at least in part, has held me back. If in the future I would also have to carry an RFID on my person at all times... no way.
The owls are not what they seem
I understand a need for screening individuals coming into and out of US borders. What has me on edge is that they keep getting closer to that imaginary line in the sand where they have to much info. Wait... they already do, people are just unaware of what I can find out about them for $20. I knew things were in the crapper when my bank started asking for my Driver's License when depositing my check and writing my License number on it. I threw a fit, like they don't already have enough info, now any lowlife employee has access to my DL#. Needless to say I am looking for a new bank. It is one thing to verify ID, it is another to write so anyone can use it. All they are doing is making the criminals job easier. I am done ranting. I think a selective democracy is the way to go. You need at least an IQ of 125 to vote and 140 to run for office. We should be having the brightest not the left overs. Research who you vote for and let the people come up with their own Patriot Act.
I eat Karma for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. That's why I don't have any.
Because there's no way a terrorist is going to try and circumvent this and other safeguards to accomplish his mission, right?
insert inflammatory anti-microsoft comment here
I see alot of referrences to tracking in your post, and of course many other posts in reply to this topic.
Not an expert in RFID by any means, but I was in the understanding that RFID technology was short range, and that the power required in order to pickup and identifyt he RFID chip is transferred from the scanning device...make its range severaly limited.
Meaning you can't track people with RFID tags and these worries about Uncle Sam tracking everyone is pointless. These chips are about identifying people or objects as they pass near certain devices(the scanners).
For example
Identifying when a non US citizen passes through a security checkpoint in a secured area
Being able to quickly pass scanners over an explosion site to quickly determine how many people are inside the effective zone and where they are, vastly speeding up the rescue or body recovery process as they are digging directly to them.
Personally I'm all up for all of this. I think every Passport and visa and every car should have an RFID tag in it. Especially for cars, imagine the scenario, your car was stolen...by terrosist or just a regular car thief.
Police look up your RFID tag signal and flag it in their db, whenever they pass a scanner police know where that car is and tries to recover it. Of course you can't place these scanners everywhere, but you can effectively catch every single car thief by placing them at the major intersections and so forth.
I would happily volunteer to have a tag put in my car, and even in my passport. If im oversees and someone steals my passport or something (very bad thing) hey...if RFID takes off they will be caught since if passports did have these tags, anything they could do with my passport it would be scanned first.
Long story short.... Tracking people not possible, its just unfeasible since its a short range (I believe its currently measured in feet)
Of course I could just be making an ass out of myself if Im wrong about this, most of this info I've picked up by reading up on rfid stories since they've been invented.
FTA:
Canadians and Mexicans, who fall under special immigration rules, are exempt from needing the chip.
So this means that only people who AREN'T citizens of Canada/Mexico trying to cross the border into the US will need this RFID chip. (maybe permanent residents are excluded also?) This discourages (or, at least makes it harder for) foreigners from entering Canada, which has less strict immigration rules (at least I know many Canadians think so), and then entering America because the US has one of the most open borders in the world with the Canadians.
The US likes to place a lot of blame on our neighboring nations for letting "terrorists" into their nations and then crossing over our rather unstrict borders. It's not too hard to establish this in our terror-paranoid society today.
This is only done to protect us. It only hinders the bad people. The government is only here to protect us.
Fight Spammers!
Suppose this tourist goes shopping at Wal-Mart and then gets blown up by a suicide bomber and the explosion causes a tragic mixup of RFID tags.
Will the police inform Proctor & Gamble that a tube of Vanilla Mint Crest toothpaste(on sale for just $1.99!) was tragically killed in the exploision?
...that if some geek gets a chip put in under his skin, we all go "OOH COOL MOD UP I WANT ONE TOO!"?
It depends on what you export. if this is software and services, then frankly the world could do without and not remark anything. if this is industrial goods then you might skew the economy, but the world would work that around after some crisis time. Raw material and food OTOH would be irreplacable and would completly break the economy of the importing countries. I tried to search for "USA export breakdown" "north america export" but I can't find how the breakdown of the goods is... Maybe you'll have more luck than me finding that out.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
There. Feel better? If we really need to find you, the gravity wave detectors will suffice, fat ass.
....to track more microbiologists. Since someone has killed 60+ since 2001. Maybe this is how they plan to find them easier, and kill them. List of dead scientists: http://www.stevequayle.com/dead_scientists/Updated DeadScientists.html
It's ramifications could extend well beyond assisting with finding bodies.
What are you talking about, this is a brilliant idea. See, when the terrorists attack and blow up a bunch of people, you use the tags...wait, the tags aren't bomb proof? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of!
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Sorry, but if your family has to wait a while longer to find out if your dead as opposed to me having a RFID tag stuck in my body you can bloody well wait.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
>>upset by the amount of time it took to confirm a relative had died.
Govt. is pushing RFID as opposed to just diggin faster? Lame.
The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
It was the one-armed man!
It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
--Scott Adams
RFID chips right now are big enough to be identifiable... but how small can they get. What worries me more than the government discussing implementing RFID is when they decide to implement RFID without us knowing.
Maybe in about a decade or so our children will be getting special shots with their immunizations. Except they won't be getting a real immunization shot, but rather a small RFID-type pill to be inserted under the skin... small, deep, and almost impossible to find by physical investigation.
I work retail, and I know some people with those tatoos (wrist, neck etc..) and they don't scan.
Would be cool if they did, I'm sure you'd get some halo fanatic with that barcode on, or some loyal smoker..
Winner of The Second Annual Montgomery Burns Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence.
I remember seeing Andy Rooney talking about this very thing in a positive light years ago, closer to the start of this "War on Terror," though I hear it's not called that anymore.
He had a mass of old IDs strewn about the desk and reminisced about how "this old army ID used to get me into the White House!" He mentions this in passing as he goes on to complain about the security delays at the football stadium.
His eventual conclusion is that he would gladly accept some kind of permanent marker or implant if it would mean faster turnover through checkpoints.
This is the exact attitude that is going to allow sinister uses of RFID technology get its foot in the door.
When looking at nothing but the facts, and leaving out all speculation regarding Big Brother and abuse of power, this tracking junk still doesn't seem like a good idea.
Perhaps a well thought-out and concise way of explaining the negative ramifications to people in our own lives is what's really needed here. Would anyone like to take a stab at it without wandering off into tinfoil hat territory?
That's what USians remind me of. Almost makes you think that a TLA rigged 9/11 just to get rid off all those "rights" you used to brag about.
And if you're too dumb to figure out the subject, check out Charles Handy's book the next time you go to a library. Remember to leave your DNA sample and firstborn's left leg at the counter.
Only ACs aren't numbers.
You can implant me with an RFID chip when you pry it from my cold, dead, body.
wait...
Good thing all four of your car's tires already contain RFID chips.
9 /1/1/
http://www.rfidjournal.com/article/articleview/26
Enjoy your so-called "freedom".
I used to program RDIF Chips. Sometimes we would have numerous chips in the same room with us and we've have a problem selecting a particular chip. The solution: We used a simple wire shelf that was laying around between the RFID Chips and the antenna. This was so effective that whenever anyone needed to block other tags in their cube farm, they'd ask, "When you going to be done with the shelf?"
Now, take the concept of the faraday cage and weave it into clothing - a Faraday Suit, if you will. Instantly, you've blocked the RFID chip's response and effectively removed yourself from being spied on (Or having your criminal activity being noted with your name).
Slightly off topic, but considere this:
let's consider the new gamma ray riot(crowd) control weapon that is in development and about to be tested/deployed in Iraq. If this chip is embedded inside a body and exposed to this ray, it will, potentially, heat up and burst releasing it's chemical make-up inside a person's body - not to mention the cruel heating experience the person will be subjected to.
This whole concept is just bad science, bad politics and bad thinking.
In assuming the article is 100% correct (ha),
"Canadians and Mexicans, who fall under special immigration rules, are exempt from needing the chip."
Most people crossing the border will be, wait for it, Canadians and Mexicans. Who would have thought!?
This is for immigrants from foreign nations to those countries I assume. And I also assume that the US has some say in who gets to be a Canadian or Mexican citizen, otherwise how could they trust the citizens?
RFID as human black box is OK but not as a tracking device. What should the 3rd world use on the american toursists then? tin cans tied with ropes fastened to a human being. Its almost just the same.
Daks
Tracking people not possible, its just unfeasible since its a short range
Just because it's not currently feasible doesn't mean it won't be in the future (even the relatively near future). All you would need is enough sensors and a network capable of handling the data. Not long ago it wasn't feasible to have red light traffic cameras, but now they are spreading like wildfire. Not long ago it wasn't feasible to have 'security' cameras on public streets to watch for 'criminal activity', but now they too are appearing in cities. How long will it be before it is feasible to track anyone at the whim of a government official?
Don't these guys come up with a reason we should implant their chip every 6 months or so?
I dont get the tourist use. Between those that are lost and not speeding up the intial entry i dont see the benefit vs cost. It lets visitors get thru the exit line quicker?!? Someone sees one of these docs on a dashboard steals it puts it on their dashboard and ?
...inserted into?
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
I knew this would happen!
;-)
From the day that I was told that this technology was mandatory for all animals being adopted from the shelter, I knew that some day I would feel that needle stick in my own skin. It was just a matter of time.
National ID card, video surveillance, biometrics, RFID. Once we've established that we're all whores, from then on we're just "talking price".
How are we supposed to plant RFID tags on the thousands of criminals criminals who sneak across the border everyday.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
I am not a huge privacy advocate nor am I a conspiracy theorist. Having said that I have concerns about embedding chips in me to identify me. I don't want to walk near a proximity sensor and have the department store (or worse yet governmental agency) know who I am when I walk in the door. It seems like a true loss of privacy and independence.
Imagine being in the wrong place at the wrong time (say a bank) that scans you when you enter the building. Now say it is robbed seconds after you leave. Your business done you return to work. A few minutes later the police show up and question you. You are automatically a suspect. What will your boss think?
It is not a feeling I want to feel.
The argument could be made that it will allow police to narrow the field faster and catch more criminals - but I for one think the price is way too high.
And so it begins...
So wait, what about dual citizens who were born abroad that hold US passports? Does this apply to us? I RTFA but it wasn't too clear about that.
stick an rfid tracker on me so someone can scan the scene of the explosion and ID me?
no thanks, find my teeth, lazy boy
This is precisely the latter-day, higher-tech equivalent of the Nazi wrist tattoos.
There are many different types of barcodes (UPC, ISBN, etc) that are constructed using different formats and standards... If I were to draw random lines on a piece of paper, the odds of it scanning would be very low... In the same manner, an artist's representation of a barcode on paper would not scan unless it was in a valid format... If one were to print a valid barcode and apply it to the skin in the form of a temporary tattoo, my hypothesis is that it would scan... If this were true, then it is no stretch to assume that a real tattoo could be imprinted which would also be scannable...
I am amazed nobody pointed out that we don't know about health risk with RFID. They are not inherently dangerous, but the tag has a propension to move.
We don't know if the tag ability to move is not going to cause some problems in the body. While the distance is not that great, it can have some effects.
Anyway, I have no intention to get tagged. The advantages are not offsetting the drawbacks and potential abuses of the system.
It's a new plan for limiting the number of illegal immigrants! Make America so screwed up that people don't want to immigrate in!
For ease of use, you're encouraged to wear one on your hand or forehead.
'For we walk by faith, not by sight.' II Corinthians 5:7
No, the sheep are never going to let themselves be tagged. The "sheep" are the Christians, who fear the "number of the beast" more than they fear death.
Those welcoming our new RFID, tagged, surveiled, big-brother future are the cows; those who worship money and follow our Satanic cowboy President.
It's hard to tell the difference, since so many cows are pretending to be sheep these days.
Helping to identify the dead is good.
But I feel there are some potential civil liberties problems for the other. Though I'm not going to take sides on the issue in this post, it has always bothered me that the U.S. has always had problems with immigration, ironically, from a country whose most famous entrance guard states:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
As a country, we've never really taken to those words but have always appended an "If" to it.
Wouldn't steel tags be better?
What about a family with a mix of dual and single citizenships? We're a nation of immigrants: its fairly easy to have a family with all three of dual-citizenships, green cards, and visas. If you and your family are traveling together, will you get tagged as suspicious because you don't have the same number of YourRFIDsPlease leaving as you did when entering? (i.e. your cousin stays in Seattle to go to the SciFi Museum while your aunt goes up to Vancouver?). Wait, that's jut a rhetorical questions: of course these families are suspicious.
Doesn't it bother ppl in the US and the gov itself that what they are doing is endorsing a big brother government.
"Canadians and Mexicans, who fall under special immigration rules, are exempt from needing the chip."
So I guess this new policy is not going to affect me since I'm Canadian.
"Even with the radio frequency technology, however, the vehicle will still have to stop. If a person's identifying data produce no red flags, they will get just a cursory check at the border rather than lengthy questioning."
"Members of the Canadian Race Relations Foundation met Wednesday with Mocny to discuss their concerns. They came away hoping the new technology may in fact help to fight racial and religious profiling."
"Karen Mock, the foundation's executive director, said she hears stories of people with "Middle Eastern-sounding names or darker complexions" being stopped and questioned frequently. She said technology could help by eliminating the possibility of stereotyping."
I call bull. Me and my darker skinned friends have been stopped numerous time and questioned till kingdom come; and we are Canadian. They can still make pretenses for bugging us.
"Radio frequency antennae have been installed at the border crossings at Thousand Islands Bridge in Alexandria Bay, New York; and Blaine, Washington, crossings for the Pacific Highway and Peace Arch. The technology will also be launched next week at two crossings between Mexico and Nogales, Arizona."
So I guess the border which I visit in Blaine is going to have this new system.
What I don't understand is how this is actually going to stop them from still harassing me, and reducing border waits?
My tattoo of a barcode (Durex Extra Large - don't ask) doesn't scan unless i'm lucky. Possibly because it's on the back of my neck where the skin curves - anybody got an actual product barcode tattooed on flat skin?
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
I contract to the Canadian Border Services Agency (CBSA) and I was the primary developer of the Canadian side of the Nexus program. The US developed there own version.
The thing shared in common is an issued card with an RFID chip. The chip is assoicated with the traveller, not the car. So for those people at the border who want to avoid the lineups, they have signed up, been through the security checks and are being 'tracked' when crossing the border with the RFID chip given to them. It probably doesn't bother them because they can avoid 10 minutes to an hour of waiting time at the border.
From the article it sounds like the US may be trying to expand this to become an 'on-demand' program for those that they feel might be a higher risk. If the technology is similar to what is being used in Nexus then I don't see a big issue. Maybe the people being 'forced' into the program don't like it, but if you want to travel across the border and the government considers you a risk, that is the price you're going to have to pay. As for the government tacking your every move with this RFID, not likely. The range is quite small and you have to pass by the sensors quite close and present the chip or it won't get read.
The ideas of associating the chip with the car doesn't make much sense as has been pointed out by other replys (changing cars, numerous people in the cars and different persons crossing through each time). I guess it depends on how they're going to apply the technology. Maybe they know something about the patterns of vehicle crossings that would signal them to suspicious activity?
You have an affair. This is legal. Your mistress's apartment gets robbed. Common. The police dust the place for prints. Your name comes up. Oops!
There are plenty of perfectly legal, if not entirely moral, things a person can do that would be inconvenienced by a police investigation. An investigation makes a big mess in a whole bunch of lives.
Having more fingerprints is not necessarily a good thing... right now, if your prints turn up in the database that's pretty good evidence you're a suspect. The bigger the database gets, the more innocent people are caught up in things that don't concern them.
Six degrees of separation... how sure are you nobody you know is involved in major crimes, or with someone who commits them?
Wrong-o, my friend, you see Bush and his cronies don't see the implanting of the number of the beast as a bad thing, because it brings the world one step closer to the events described in revelations, the climax of which is, of course, the ascension of the righteous into heaven.
God help us all, America is in the grip of a madman.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
Yeah, you are right. We need to implant everyone with an RFID chip. Legal citizens and residents, and legal tourists. Then we can track everyone's movements. If you don't have one, you are illegal, so we put in a cell for an enemy combatant until you can prove that you are here legally and that you have no intent on harming the USA.
Fight Spammers!
Soylent Green is PEOPLE!!!
I for one welcome our new RFID overlords.
Maybe we should sew the RFID tags into a patch and that patch can be sewn into our clothing. A yellow six pointed star, perhaps? Nope, sorry wrong shape. I know, a yellow crescent for Muslims. A red maple leaf for Canadians. A yellow taco for Mexicans. A red five pointed star for Liberals. A green celery stalk for Vegans.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
So people who make and sell a technology that hasn't caught on (because noone wants it) are tying it to a recent and horrific disaster in an effort to make people want it. Boy I wish that I could say that this is the first time it happened.
But in the wake of 9/11 with Oracle other RFID makers and all the face-recognition people jamming the halls of congress to say "If you bought our crap this wouldn't happen." People just can't wait to jump on the ashes and dig for gold.
I believe it was Oscar Wilde who discussed the problem of "Soulless Commerce" "Irrespective of the true cost to the nation".
People suck sometimes.
I am a bit behind on the RFID debate. As I understand it it broadcasts a specific frequency, and data along with it. What is the chance that the data can be re-encoded?
Sure that web-site has content.. But so does a garbage can!
For many of us raised in western society, and with at least a passing knowledge of the Bible, this smacks of the "mark of the beast". Perhaps if this idea is pushed hard enough with Bush followers it could stop it from happening.
For those of you wanting more information:
http://www.cryingvoice.com/Endtimes/Mark1.html
(BTW, I don't believe this myself, but I see that it would be fairly simple to get certain people to believe it).
Are you Canadians stopping US citizens on their way out? If not, can I come visit for, say
Now any time an American leaves his country you will be able to easily identify them by this goofy tag in their arm. Cries of "No I'm not an American, I'm a Canadian" can easily be dispelled. This will make the terrorist or any one else who wants to harm Americans ( and there are plenty of groups that fall into that category ) lives so much easier. Want evidence I kidnapped Joe Blow? Heres his RFID number. Maybe Americans will just start staying at home. # I am not a number I am free man!!!
Now Bush wants to TAG "potential" threats more commonly known are tourists.
The US is on a dangerous slope and its forcing it's trading partners to participate in this madness with NO proof that the information is ever going to be secure or not used for illegal or other purposes.
Considering the growing number of identity thefts and the misappropriation of government information one wonders just how long it will be before the next attack against America comes from within by its own using illegally aquired information!
Welcome to the future!
The thing about explosions is, they tend to turn the human body into carbon ash and scattered bits of meat. How is an embedded(?) RFID tag going to do anything to help identify the deceased, when the tag itself is likely to be destroyed by the blast?
Given that the UK Government have now admitted that our ID Cards will contain RFID chips, we have an even greater concern.
Certainly, there will be nothing to stop any future government tracking our day to day movements. Given the vast amount of data which our unique identity numbers will tie together, this amounts to a police state worse than even Orwell envisioned.
- It applies to every visiting person in the car- it is the new I-94 documentation for aliens.
- It is extremely private, in that "The information may also be shared with other agencies at the federal, state, local, foreign, or tribal level, who are lawfully engaged in collecting law enforcement information (whether civil or criminal) and national security intelligence information and/or who are investigating, prosecuting, enforcing, or implementing civil and/or criminal laws, related rules, regulations, or orders."
"The Privacy Act SORNs for the systems on which US-VISIT draws provide notice as to the conditions of disclosure and routine uses for the information collected by US-VISIT. Any disclosure by DHS must be compatible with the purpose for which the information was collected." Yup, limited purposes.
- But really, the tag is safe, as "The RFID tag number will not contain or be derived from any personal information." (pg 14) Its just an unencrypted number. And only those very few groups listed above have the right to connect the number back to your personal info.
- ...therefore removing the possibility that a person can be found out as a visitor just because they carry an RFID: "it is contemplated that the unencrypted RFID tag number will not be structured in such a way that it can be used to identify the individual as a non-immigrant."(pg 15) Uh-huh. Because we all carry RFIDs, so one person carrying one can't stand out. I am comtemplating that my social security number will never be used as an identifier: it says so right on the card.
- And the RFID can't be used for surveillance, as "There is also a low risk that the RFID tag could be used to conduct surreptitious locational surveillance of an individual; i.e., to use the presence of the tag to follow an individual as he or she moves about in the U.S. However, ensuring that RFID tag numbers do not exhibit properties that can be readily attributed to US-VISIT and using a limited radio frequency range effectively mitigates this risk. The design process is also taking into account methods of reducing eavesdropping and skimming possibilities." (pg 15) Yup, if you take it into account you're solving it.
- There are no risks to U.S. citizens, because this document doesn't mention them at all. Sure they'll have checked and scanned everyone's documents in the car- citizens or not- so now know exactly which so called "U.S. citizens" have the audacity to travel with others, but nothing to worry about.
Lovely privacy document. All you have to do is "contemplate" a technology issue and its solved. Great. I'm going to "contemplate" that my computer is invulnerable to hard drive failures, theft, malware and crackers... whooohoo: my system is now secure!I'm now going to "contemplate" that being asked for "your papers, please" and being tracked every time I enter and leave my country, that "If we have to live our lives weighing every action, every communication, every human contact, wondering what agents of the state might find out about it, analyze it, judge it, possibly misconstrue it, and somehow use it to our detriment, we are not truly free." doesn't change the privacy rights (4th Ammendment anyone? it says "Persons") in the US. Whooohoo, I'm ever so much safer! [btw, that's one of the best essays on why privacy is a necessary and fundamental right in a free society. He warns Canadians not to give up what the U.S. has already lost. Worth reading.]
Here's where it's coming from. Two former members of the Bush Administration have signed on as board members with two RFID firms. Can you say paid endorsement? How about inhouse lobbyist? How about hide your guns but keep them close? Nuff of that. How about hacks, cracks, or phreaks? I know they can be fried in a microwave, but unless someone shows that these things are useless or dangerous (like reprogramming, changing IDs) there's going to be a lot of people who will say Good, or Uuuhhh? or just flip the channel. Just a thought. Tommy Thompson, the Health and Human Services Secretary in President Bush's first term and a former Governor of Wisconsin, is going to get tagged. Thompson has joined the board of Applied Digital, which owns VeriChip, the company that specializes in subcutaneous RFID tags for humans and pets. http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5793685.html SUNNYVALE, Calif. - April 5, 2005 - Savi Technology, Inc., a leading provider of active RFID solutions for supply chain management and security, announced today the appointment of Tom Ridge, the first Secretary of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and former Governor of Pennsylvania, to the company's Board of Directors. http://www.savi.com/news/2005/2005.04.05.shtml
So when they get shipped back, we can tell when they try to come here again!
This is just an extension of an ongoing program thats been working for years. They have a "Trusted Traveler" program at a number of border crossings for faster processing of individuals that enter the country on a regular basis. The TT is issued an RFID card that is tied to your credentials in a DB. As you approach the boarder there are special TT lanes for you to go in. By the time you reach the INS station your information and photo are on display for the guard to verify. Down near San Diego this has been working for folks that live in Mexico but work in SD. The process works in speeding entry into the US. Now the international community is working on providing RFID capability to passports,etc. Tie the ID number to your information in the DB. BTW, the RFID device doesn't hold your personal info and photo. Its the DB index key to where the information is stored.
Big Brother, he is loving you, yes? Where is my spirits...
We have finally been able to confirm that Jimmy Hoffa, Adolf Hitler and Elvis are really dead! We've got their RFID tags right here!
When it stops glowing, it's time to rejuvinate!
I predict this will be completely useless against terrorism and criminal activity. These people will still get into the U.S. ilegally or with counterfeit documentation. My guess is that it will only be "useful" to track people who legally enter the country but might overstay their visa. But this will hurt border cities.
Here's a slice of life:
I live in Cd. Juárez, Chih., México, on the border with El Paso, TX. It is one of (if not the) biggest border metropolitan areas in the world. There are three "bridges" here (border crossings really, since there is hardly a river that runs through anymore).
El Paso has a population of about 1.5 million and Juárez of about 2 million separated by only a couple houndred meters. Almost a 150,000 thousand vehicles and almost a quarter million people cross back and forth DAILY here (IIRC, according to a study that was done a couple of years ago, though I can't find the link anymore). Working or studying in Juárez and living in El Paso or viceversa is commonplace for thousands of people. El Paso's economy is mostly (I think) dependant on the every day crossing of all these people.
Most of the people in Juárez have a border-crosser card, since we cross into the U.S. frequently. It already has my info embedded in it, including my picture. It is the preferred document that is demanded by US. Customs for crossing into the U.S., even if you have a Mexican Passport with a U.S. visa.
And, although not easy, I know it is couterfittable (sp?), just like everything is "crackable", I guess.
So my point is, do they really think criminals or will use legitimately obtained documents? How long before it's counterfitted or cloned? What use will it be then?
I'm guessing though, that this program is oriented towards longer visitors visas (B-6?). If I am going on a long trip (longer than 3 days), or going further than 27 miles from the border into the U.S. I have to get one of these. I essentially get a stamped cardboard card with some microprinting that is good for 6 months. You're supposed to give it up at the crossing when you come back into Mexico, but it's not uncommon for one to forget to do it and just come back to give it up after a day or two, or to give it to the immigration officer who forgets to scan the barcode on it (giving me a whole heckuva lot of trouble to get future tourist visas).
It is also not uncommon to just hold on to it until it expires in case you need it for another trip since it is such a pain in the arse to get one. You have to provide proof of travel like plain tickets, pay stubs, Mexican income tax returns, and the like, and it takes up a couple of hours in the process AND you could still be denied entrance if the immigration officer is a repressed Chicano trying to prove how "American" he is by denying anyone that "looks" Mexican entrance (like most of the officers are).
I am a programmer that only goes to El Paso when I'm visiting friends or my aunt, or when I'm cast in a show (play) in a community theater company. This just adds one more annoyance to the border crossing experience.
*sigh*
Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous? - Calvin
No, I was trying to convince the government that they don't need 6 black helicopters watching me all day.
Sarcasm? Who me? What's that?
Fight Spammers!
My mechanical engineer cousin once took a tour of a coal mine. Before the tour, they gave him something like a large souvenir keychain: a four-inch chunk of bronze with his name stamped 1/8 inch into it. That and a liability waiver will get you a lot of places!
The post below about shrapnel embossing your name on things is very apt.
... but at least you can turn your cell phone off and it's not illegal to do so.
Consider; the United States is intent on imprisoning higher and higher numbers of people each year. Is it any wonder that they are taking the easier route by turning the entire country into a prison?
Request a Linux Shockwave player here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/
Simply put, I would rather die than be chipped. I won't have one in me or on me for any reason. Verichip is a very bad company. They will have to make their slogan, "Chip or die!" because I know that I'm not alone here. Big brother is getting too big and I think it's time to take Big Brother down a few pegs back to reality.
Fine. I'll park my car, walk across, and rent a car on the U.S. side (plenty of crossings are adjacent or in urban areas with ample services). Either that, or phone for a taxi, or have someone already in the U.S. meet me across the border, or some other strategy. Or I'll put the "documents" in an envelope with genuine, laminated tin-aluminum foil.
How in the heck is this going to actually stop the bad guys? The stupid ones, maybe. Why don't they just move to the full-blown "Papers, please." mode for all travellers, foreign and domestic, in the U.S.? After all, there were still tourists visiting the USSR in the bad old days.
you misspelled "funny". it's actually spelled "s" "a" "d"
Didn't the Bible predict this in Revelations? Am I way off here or doesn't this like the beginning of another fulfilled prophecy?
Here is my home page.
This only works when you find the body part that has the chip in it. In the Tsunami, great, you'll find whole bodies, easy to identify. In a bombing, you're gonna be recovering pieces of people, a finger here, a leg there, and you'll identify ONE part, not everything. On the other hand, once you can identify that one part, you could run tissue tests to match it with a suspected match, so the idea is not completely without merit.
Want to find other gamers to play board and role playing game
(If you have one).
Come on, dude, what's the big deal? You looking to comming a crime or something?
This must be a hoax, in the US anything foreign is ALIEN.
You never catch me alive
I'm guessing that this is their response to all the govenments missing the deadline for putting RFIDs into passports. Now the US will just put the RFID into the paperwork you have to keep with your passport upon entry into the US.
You know you thought of it too. Great! I just finished the code. Now all I need are some dead people or some foreigners.
because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
It sounds more like it's a convenience for frequent border-crossers. It's not that good a check to ensure someone has left the country; the HSA will spend a lot of time looking for people they didn't realize had already left.
Bottom line: im never going to USA or other similar country of "freedom". Ever.
You are not alone. A lot of Europeans have got the "not welcome" message. Not in so many words, but the border reception shows what the US thinks about them. If other countries did the same thing to US citizens at their borders there would be an outrage. So visiting the US as a tourist, or going to a conference that isn't absolutely necessary is just out of the question.
I live in southern ontario and my parents live in northern ontario. Before 9/11, I used to always drive through michigan to get there and back because it is much faster and easier than the canadian route. After 9/11, I think I may have gone through michigan once... and after having to sit in customs lines for about an hour with armed military personal watching you, I am not going that way again. I don't need the stress. So, basically, I no longer have any desire to travel to the US for any reason at all. This is just another step that will harden my resolve (sorry for the "bush speak").
Meh.
You don't understand, this is EXACTLY what the wacky fundamentalist Christians want. The mark of the beast has been talked about for so long, now they finally have a chance to make it happen. It's called "self-fulfilling prophecy". Look it up.
Meh.
Let me repeat the important point: There is no tracking in between. Do you think U.S. officials are going to sit in a computer room somewhere tracking all foreigners on a screen like air traffic controllers? Give me a break. The U.S. simply wants to know when you arrived and when you left. They don't really care where you went in between.
People who travel via airlines check in and check out of the country. But right now, there is no way for travelers who come across land borders to check out of the country. That means once they get in, they stay here forever with little chance of being caught. The U.S. needs a way to know if a visitor has left the country or not. Using RFID allows the U.S. to keep track of exits without making the visitor stop to check out in person.
As for biometrics, I'm happy to supply my digital fingerprint and photo. It takes about five seconds. And it keeps anyone from stealing my documents and pretending to be me. Anyone who is afraid of giving a fingerprint is either paranoid or trying to hide something.
And no, I'm not a government employee. In fact, I disagree with a huge part of what the current administration is doing. I'm just sick of people whining about the immigration system (or lack thereof) and then complaining about everything the government does to try to fix it. Do you have better ideas? I didn't think so.
It's true. In the U.S., Canada, Mexico, the EU, and in most places all over the world, all vehicles are already required to be tagged. These tags work by a system were ambient radiation reflects off the tag, and then a sophisticated device decodes that information in order to determine vehicle identity.
They are called "Licence Plates". This is essentially what the RFID tags are. The only difference is that licence plates are visible from a much greater distance, and are tracked all over with cameras and police observation.
Now, I don't mean to say that we shouldn't fear the government tracking us. We should. People have every right to be worried and want to stop this. I oppose every effort by my government to try to tag or track anyone, including these RFID tags.
However, if you support the tagging and licencing of vehicles, and having information on these vehicles accessable from a centralized government database as already exists (and I assume that most of you do), then what is the problem with an RFID tag?
Most of the people upset about this extremly limited use of government surveilence support far more extreme forms of government surveilence and would be incredulous if anyone suggest we tried to get rid of them.
People will laugh, and no doubt be outraged if I suggest there is anything wrong with the government issuing licence plates, and tracking the vehicles of its citizens using a huge national database and network of information collecting. But suggest that the department of Homeland Securty do something much more limited, and only for non-citizens, and people are up in arms.
So, is the Slashdot crowd just gripped by sensationalist fear about new technology? Or is this some partisan political thing and people hate it just because they associate "Homeland Security" with "Republican" or "G.W. Bush"? Why does a crowd who will be outraged if someone suggests cars should not be licenced and tracked, or guns should be legal and not be licenced and tracked, will fly into a paranoid rage about something so small and inconsquential as this?
just when I thought my tin foil hat was secure...
Behold, another webcomic!
Stop placing all the blame on undocumented immigrants, the vast majority of them are just fleeing from poverty and repression, and just want to work hard and provide for their families.
But don't blame immigrants for that (after all, it is human to want to live better, isn't it?), ALSO BLAME the companies that knowingly hire and exploit them (construction, agriculture, janitorial, hotels, restaurants, etc, etc).
The US economy is *ADDICTED* to undocumented immigrants, because they can be exploited and they lower their costs, as well as lower wages for everyone else, and companies get away with it.
The government and people are hypocrytical to place all the blame and prosecution on immigrants.
So, if you don't want to be hypocrytical, also start DEMANDING that all companies and officers of those companies that hire undocumented immigrants, are also prosecuted and treated the same way (no slaps in the wrists).
Of course, hell will freeze over before anything like that happens...
Ever asked your self what would happen if ALL undocumented workers suddendly disappeared, or went on strike? I think it would make the great depression look like the good old times.
Good questions.
As I found when reading the DHS's privacy assessment of the program, the RFID in the I-94 document will just have an unencrypted number. While airports scan fingerprints / take a biometric reading, regular border stations don't. So it seems like if the bad guys can find a nice innocent visitor who looks like one of them, a cloned RFID could do some damage.
Because fingerprints CAN be planted, mistakes can be made in identification, and fingerprints are universally accepted as *UNDISPUTABLE* evidence.
Once your fingerprints are on file, the file can fall into the wrong hands, and ANYBODY can make a copy and PLANT them.
Good luck trying to convince the police, the feds and the jury that you weren't at the crime scene.
And let's not forget the FBI being "100% sure" that that Oregon lawyer was involved with the bombings in Madrid (good luck trying to convince the police, the feds, and the jury that it was a mistake by the FBI crime lab).
Had it not been that the Spanish police were skeptical of the FBI's claim, and told them to get a clue, that man would be rotting prison or worse, dead.
I don't fear that this will be completely ineffective. I fear that it will be effective by a small amount and politicians will use it to claim that they're winning the war on terrorism. Bit by bit, these measures DO have an effect.
The problem is, the security gained is not worth the freedom lost, and by the time we have near-absolute security, this country will make 1984's Oceania look like a fucking amusment park. It is not a leap that we're willing to make all at once, but given a few generations, it will be easy to enact these security measures, one by one. They don't do much, but to the average Joe they don't appear to take away much freedom, either.
Make no mistake, collectively they CAN stop terrorism, but they WILL destroy everything that made our society worth defending from terrorism in the first place.
This is why we should focus on security measures that do not try (in vain) to track everything, to have absolute control over everything. These are at best a waste of money and at worse a step towards the death of freedom. Effective security measures which do NOT threaten our freedom do not focus on trying to track and control the population at large. They target our likely enemies and our likely points of weakness with simple, common-sense safeguards and policy changes (regarding Middle Eastern nationals, regarding our nigh-unwavering UN support of Israel, etc.)
Unfortunately, most of the western world seems hellbent on responding to a mosquito bite with a claw hammer instead of Off! insect repellant . I can only hope that they will someday realize how self-destructive these tactics are.
I wonder, at what point does it become moral to be one of those McVeigh's and fight an oppressive government? At what point does it become immoral to serve a once-righteous (or even better, a half-righteous) government?
Are there any points at all, or is it just one big sliding scale of grayness from Utopia all the way to 1984's Oceania?
Just something to think about; don't particularly feel like starting a flame war today...
What a great idea.
1. Find RFID of target.
2. Plant bomb with RFID senser.
3. Wait for target to target past.
4. Boooooooom.
Talk about arming terrorist with the tools they need.
Area51 - We are watching...
And it's not very nice for you American citizens.
Is there a special edict or provision in some obscure american governmental policy to extend the current administration beyond it's term in office if there is a "danger of destabilization of the nation" from an election during a time of national crisis?
I just had the horrible thought that something is going to happen about 6 to 9 months before the 2008 national elections, some sort of "terrorist incident" that will prompt,
By 2030 half the world is either United States territory, or the governments are so alike to the Department of Homeland Security and Governmental Process that there is effectively no difference.
You're probably thinking, "this guy's a fucking tinfoil hatter", but it just occured to me that all of the current things happening - the prevalence of monitoring already going on, rfid tagging of products and now foreign visitors, petitioning by the agencies to have rights to search and seizure beyond constitutionally allowable levels, the "right" of the US government to bundle up anyone to Guantanamo Bay under the guise of calling them an "Enemy Combatant" without any sort of due process, and the fact that the current admin doesn't seem to give a shit if they lie about why they're going to do something and then get caught out because they can always say "We did it to stop terrorists!" (and many people believe them) - all seem to point to some sort of major restructuring of the current US government soon that will make Fascism seem like a welcome alternative.
Several years ago a lot of us laughed at the DMCA coming into operation. A few years ago some of us doubted t
His name is Robert Paulsen...
> No trade = no food = starvation. Primarily in Canada, Mexico, and China
Ironically, the Wall Street Journal had an article last November about how the US is rapidly becoming a net importer of food.
The US certainly wouldn't starve---its food trade is essentially balanced, and much is used inefficiently for high-fructose corn syrup and the like---but it's not likely anyone else would starve, either.
Yeah, this will really help with the rampant population of undocumented illegals. Right. Maybe, just maybe, one needs to properly *staff* the border first, and properly process any undocumented illegal found, instead of providing them with free healthcare, education, wellfare, etc.
But no, that makes too much sense. Instead will just stick RFID on *legal* and documented immigrants. As if the suicide bombers are going to use the legal channels when they can just hop the border down south.
This is not true. AFAIK (from an immigration class), US citizen children are virtually no bar to deportation. The main exception is if deportation would be an extreme hardship on the child.
Used to be a way to stay, not now.
In fact, that was my point. Many who fought in WWII would be aghast at what GWB has done and more aghast that we not only allowed it, but voted it in. That is the ultimate irony; like Hitler being voted in.
Few here realize that much has been lost over the last 5 years. Even assuming that GWB is not abusing the system (in light of Sibel Edmunds and the white house traitor, I seriously doubt it), then future admins (either Republican or Democrats) will take advantage of it, but it will be hidden from all.
The biggest lose is that the FCC allowed just large corporations to own nearly all the news outlets. And the big CEOs will simply control what happens.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Make it voluntary for the public and mandatory for politicians. Advertise it. Provide government funding to drop the initial price, even. If it's so damn wonderful, people should be lining up for miles.
:)
Give it a three-year trial and see what the takeup is like at the end of it. If more than 25% of your population have voluntarily tagged themselves, run it for another three years. If, however, it's a dismal multibilliondollar failure, at least you'll be able to track down the politicians responsible
It is called sarcasm.
Fight Spammers!
see recent emininet domain case from the supremes.
I patented screwing your mom. But it got revoked for "prior art."
It's called martial law. There are too many Senators who want to be President one day for that to ever be a real viable option.
+++
http://www.drudgereport.com for the truth.
*sigh*
Electronic Identity tags for foreigners.
The USAPatriot Act.
Silently imprisoning citizens.
No accountability for invading other countries.
Yes, God Bless America... land of the free, home of the brave... and now, DoublePlus Good!
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
How is it that in the name of "security" all human rights go out the window?
First, the US has not one, but two, stolen elections by a man who has been carried by inherited wealth all his life. Then he and his oil-mad and oil-rich cronies go about imposing their version of "democracy" on oil-rich countries in order to grab more oil for themselves and their companies. Now they want to tag all citizens of foreign countires with RFID tags to track them down. Next thing you know, children will be issued RFID tags when they are born.
Americans are nuts to accept this nonsense!