Linux progressed farther in 10 years than Microsoft during that same time frame
I don't see how that's true at all. In both technology, and the bottom line, Microsoft is *years* ahead. Technology: let me offer one example: go to a web page (IE) with some kind of table with data in it. Copy the table. Paste it into Word. It actually becomes a Word table! Paste it into Excel. It actually places the data, and the formatting, into the cells! How far is linux from that level of ease of use, that level of "object linking and embedding" across apps? Do you think the multiple desktop standards helps or hinders this task?
And in terms of bottom line, linux companies are still trying to figure out how to make a buck. Redhat just now moved into the positive column, VA and others layoff people seemingly every week.
I'm a fan of Linux because I'm a hacker. I like the shell, I like the flexibility and customisability that come with having dozens of "glue" tools. But the fact is, hackers are the minority of computer users, and this is only going to be more and more true in the future. For the masses, ease of use is priority 1, and it seems, at least to me, that the "other" platform has a great lead in that arena.
Are you smoking something, dude? Of course it should be larger. Browsing the web, with its dozens of standards, protocols, etc, is more complex that blit'ing colored bits to the screen (I'm generalizing, I know, but for the most part, this is what X does).
You're thinking that, since Mozilla sits "on top" of X in the structural hierarchy, it should be smaller, but no where does it say that the hierarchy is pyramidal (is that a word?) in shape.
No windows community? Who the fuck needs a wishy-washy, warm-all-over, community when you're the dominant player? Maybe the people who use windows at work and at home don't "talk" to each other, but they're there, and they number a hell of a lot more than linux.
Mac zealots' dependence on Apple? Aren't we dependent on the big projects' (kernel, X, KDE/GNOME) developers and leaders? How many of "linux community" are competent or interested or have enough time to fix/modify large projects, or write a kernel driver?
As far as "we make this," ya, coding is fun, but if I've spent years honing my skills, I'd rather get paid handsomely to work on a commercial product, thank you. And usually, things progress more quickly (and correctly) when there's the pressures of a capitalist economy driving production... I think that's evidenced by all the shit poor, half-baked, useability-retarded crap that floods freshmeat on a daily basis.
The implications of this? It's one more step to making Linux a Mom and Pop OS.
You couldn't be more right. Why, just the other day, after my mom asked me how to open up AOL, and how to save a Word document, she asked: "I think there's a new nVidia driver out, is there an easy way to recompile my kernel, say, in a web-based manner?"
I could not agree more. For chrissakes, people, use software that does what you want. I don't give a damn what license a piece of software uses, if it does what I need, I'll use it and speak highly of it too. If I have to pay for it, that's fine too. Life's way too short to put up with crap software, just because of sillyness like this.
I wonder how many blind zealots there were that did not use python (until now) because of its GPL-incompatible licensing issues?
Tried several other trackballs but unfortunately they just didn't quite compare to the one signed with the mark of the beast hehe.
Seriously though, Microsoft makes outstanding hardware. Maybe it's because I've used them for so long, bu Microsoft mouses (mice?) just *feel* right. When I have to use some custom mouse from Compaq or something, I really notice how crappy other people's designs are.
I also got me one of them split-down-the-middle Microsoft keyboards (why can't I remember their name?) and DAMN it feels good to have the wrists in straight angles to the keys! There's also this cool little proggy that will let you assign any command you want to the round blue shortcut buttons along the top of the keyboard.
(Even more OT: It seems to me that when Microsoft wants to extend a tentacle into a new market, the pretty much always know how to do it right. Evidence: hardware, the upcoming Windows Messenger in WinXP, the upcoming Xbox, web browsers, etc. The list goes on. Just thinkin' out loud...)
Re:Version 0.9.9.9..., or priority problems.
on
Mozilla 0.9.1 Out
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· Score: 1
Why are new features going in when it's not stable?
Well, the focus now is building what Netscape 6.5 will be based on, so they can't just release a full.5 release with no changes at all.
There really needs to be a "stable" release of this thing.
Well, the thing that bugs me is that the same damn things keep breaking!! I don't get it, is the code really that fragile? I mean, after all this time, you'd think that the code that displays the title of the page you're viewing in the title bar of the app would be pretty stable, yet in a build from last week, this was busted. You'd also think that the [super]reviewer of the patch that broke this would have caught it. (This is just one example of just stupid stuff that shouldn't break.)
Anyway, from the comments I've read so far, everyone, who is usually very critical, has been saying.9.1 is nice. I'm downloading now, and I'll continue to use Mozilla.
Ya, myself, my family, my friends, and pretty much everyone in my classes that I know or have talked to, are a pretty fringe bunch. We do crazy, unimaginable things. My guess? That those people I know are the only ones that used Napster in non-legit fashion.
Give me a break, dude. I think I took a pretty fair sample size.
It's the perfect model: the users pay you *and* for the bandwidth to share the songs they already bought.
Can we all stop pretending that we already own the cd's whose tracks we download from napster? That is utter bull shit.
I use(d) napster for the following: downloading full CD's that I do not own, and never will, so that I could burn them to audio and listen to them in my car. Everyone I know did the same thing. Now that Napster is worthless, we use other means of doing the same damn thing.
Stealing? Yep. Copyright infringement? Sure, why not. But for everyone (taco) to claim that they only downloaded tracks that they had a legal right to is completely ridiculous, and no one is buying it. ---
It just seems a damn shame to me that the success of products is not determined by their quality but instead by bundling deals such as this. If Mozilla/Real is better suited for AOL's needs and it's customers, why should they have to deal with this kind of strong-arming? A real world example of why monopolies are bad for everyone (except the monopoly).
A damn shame, really... I guess that's how the whole world works though, not just this industry.
You bring up an interesting point. Just what the hell has the acquisition of Netscape gotten for AOL? Was it so they would have a bargaining position when Microsoft saw that they had an alternative to IE? That seems an expensive price to pay, to me.
Microsoft must have tucked its tail between its legs and run to the building management, because they showed up and kicked the SLUG members out of the entrance area.
So from what I read there, and other places in the article, the LUG people were either A) Actually ON Microsoft's area of the floor, or B) in the entrance area in front of it (I wish they put up a floorplan).
How many linux zealots would put up with Microsoft guys handing out CD's in front of or near a Linux booth?
If you want a one-sided, theatrical rendition of the facts, read the article, but please don't let it make up your mind before hearing both sides.
A) Netscape, as a whole, never had any interest for AOL. They were not going to include an entire Netscape install in their clients. (Why would they want 2 different email clients to confuse the user?) It was ALL about the layout engine for them to embed in their AOL client, and I agree that there's a lot of smack to be talked about Netscape 6 as a whole, but the layout engine is actually very smooth and very fast. For proof, try a windows mozilla build, and then click on the MFCembed.exe, or whatever it is called. It's just the layout engine embedded in a tiny MFC app. It's faster than hell!! Even without IE's preloaded DLL shinanigans, it loads and renders VERY fast. That's an amazing accomplishment.
B) Do you really think the quality of Netscape had anything to do with this decision? This is pure marketing, people. Microsoft has all the power in the world, and AOL NEEDS to be right there on the desktop when Joe User turns on his new Gateway, or they're history. If Microsoft had said "Sure we'll put it on the desktop, but you have to dance on your head." AOL would have to comply.
I'm Netscape's (well actually, Mozilla's) biggest supporter, and this really sucks, but it's just business. Everyone seems to have the solution for Mozilla, but how about this: Drop the cross-platform bull shit. "Winning the browser war" and "cross-platform browser" are mutually exclusive, because you can NEVER make a cross-platform app as fast as it would be if it was only developed for one platform.
Oh well... I think the AOL linux dumb terminal thing (that I've actually seen and played with) will still work out, and it uses mozilla's layout engine. This deal doesn't say anything about AOL not trying anything else like this, so maybe it will take off.
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Linux progressed farther in 10 years than Microsoft during that same time frame
I don't see how that's true at all. In both technology, and the bottom line, Microsoft is *years* ahead. Technology: let me offer one example: go to a web page (IE) with some kind of table with data in it. Copy the table. Paste it into Word. It actually becomes a Word table! Paste it into Excel. It actually places the data, and the formatting, into the cells! How far is linux from that level of ease of use, that level of "object linking and embedding" across apps? Do you think the multiple desktop standards helps or hinders this task?
And in terms of bottom line, linux companies are still trying to figure out how to make a buck. Redhat just now moved into the positive column, VA and others layoff people seemingly every week.
I'm a fan of Linux because I'm a hacker. I like the shell, I like the flexibility and customisability that come with having dozens of "glue" tools. But the fact is, hackers are the minority of computer users, and this is only going to be more and more true in the future. For the masses, ease of use is priority 1, and it seems, at least to me, that the "other" platform has a great lead in that arena.
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Over half of which use windows.
And most of which preach a mantra they don't really understand.
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Are you smoking something, dude? Of course it should be larger. Browsing the web, with its dozens of standards, protocols, etc, is more complex that blit'ing colored bits to the screen (I'm generalizing, I know, but for the most part, this is what X does).
You're thinking that, since Mozilla sits "on top" of X in the structural hierarchy, it should be smaller, but no where does it say that the hierarchy is pyramidal (is that a word?) in shape.
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:help copying
"SUMMARY
Vim is Charityware."
... not GNU/GPLed.
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No windows community? Who the fuck needs a wishy-washy, warm-all-over, community when you're the dominant player? Maybe the people who use windows at work and at home don't "talk" to each other, but they're there, and they number a hell of a lot more than linux.
Mac zealots' dependence on Apple? Aren't we dependent on the big projects' (kernel, X, KDE/GNOME) developers and leaders? How many of "linux community" are competent or interested or have enough time to fix/modify large projects, or write a kernel driver?
As far as "we make this," ya, coding is fun, but if I've spent years honing my skills, I'd rather get paid handsomely to work on a commercial product, thank you. And usually, things progress more quickly (and correctly) when there's the pressures of a capitalist economy driving production... I think that's evidenced by all the shit poor, half-baked, useability-retarded crap that floods freshmeat on a daily basis.
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Jesus, you racked up (at this time) like 11 +Funny points in less than 30 minutes!! You're my hero, dude.
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The implications of this? It's one more step to making Linux a Mom and Pop OS.
You couldn't be more right. Why, just the other day, after my mom asked me how to open up AOL, and how to save a Word document, she asked: "I think there's a new nVidia driver out, is there an easy way to recompile my kernel, say, in a web-based manner?"
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and it _wasn't_ ultimately his decision.
If someone was whining in your ear non-stop, would it be "your decision" to walk away, or would you be forced to, to save yourself a headache?
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I could not agree more. For chrissakes, people, use software that does what you want. I don't give a damn what license a piece of software uses, if it does what I need, I'll use it and speak highly of it too. If I have to pay for it, that's fine too. Life's way too short to put up with crap software, just because of sillyness like this.
I wonder how many blind zealots there were that did not use python (until now) because of its GPL-incompatible licensing issues?
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Tried several other trackballs but unfortunately they just didn't quite compare to the one signed with the mark of the beast hehe.
Seriously though, Microsoft makes outstanding hardware. Maybe it's because I've used them for so long, bu Microsoft mouses (mice?) just *feel* right. When I have to use some custom mouse from Compaq or something, I really notice how crappy other people's designs are.
I also got me one of them split-down-the-middle Microsoft keyboards (why can't I remember their name?) and DAMN it feels good to have the wrists in straight angles to the keys! There's also this cool little proggy that will let you assign any command you want to the round blue shortcut buttons along the top of the keyboard.
(Even more OT: It seems to me that when Microsoft wants to extend a tentacle into a new market, the pretty much always know how to do it right. Evidence: hardware, the upcoming Windows Messenger in WinXP, the upcoming Xbox, web browsers, etc. The list goes on. Just thinkin' out loud...)
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Well, someone's bound to crack it pretty soon...
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Why are new features going in when it's not stable?
.5 release with no changes at all.
.9.1 is nice. I'm downloading now, and I'll continue to use Mozilla.
Well, the focus now is building what Netscape 6.5 will be based on, so they can't just release a full
There really needs to be a "stable" release of this thing.
Well, the thing that bugs me is that the same damn things keep breaking!! I don't get it, is the code really that fragile? I mean, after all this time, you'd think that the code that displays the title of the page you're viewing in the title bar of the app would be pretty stable, yet in a build from last week, this was busted. You'd also think that the [super]reviewer of the patch that broke this would have caught it. (This is just one example of just stupid stuff that shouldn't break.)
Anyway, from the comments I've read so far, everyone, who is usually very critical, has been saying
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Ya, myself, my family, my friends, and pretty much everyone in my classes that I know or have talked to, are a pretty fringe bunch. We do crazy, unimaginable things. My guess? That those people I know are the only ones that used Napster in non-legit fashion.
Give me a break, dude. I think I took a pretty fair sample size.
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It's the perfect model: the users pay you *and* for the bandwidth to share the songs they already bought.
Can we all stop pretending that we already own the cd's whose tracks we download from napster? That is utter bull shit.
I use(d) napster for the following: downloading full CD's that I do not own, and never will, so that I could burn them to audio and listen to them in my car. Everyone I know did the same thing. Now that Napster is worthless, we use other means of doing the same damn thing.
Stealing? Yep. Copyright infringement? Sure, why not. But for everyone (taco) to claim that they only downloaded tracks that they had a legal right to is completely ridiculous, and no one is buying it.
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Don't even send them to school!
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Holy shit, I never noticed that!!!
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Where'd you get that font that's in the first image? What's it called?
tnx
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You know, you're right. And when you're right, you're right. And you? You're always right.
(Forgive me, it's 3 am)
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Can anyone figure out the price, or who to contact to get one of these cuties?
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I don't like reading Freshmeat. Too much crap
WHAT?! You mean you didn't like this week's 4 dozen incarnations of MySQL enabled MP3 playlist maintaining programs? You must be crazy...
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It just seems a damn shame to me that the success of products is not determined by their quality but instead by bundling deals such as this. If Mozilla/Real is better suited for AOL's needs and it's customers, why should they have to deal with this kind of strong-arming? A real world example of why monopolies are bad for everyone (except the monopoly).
A damn shame, really... I guess that's how the whole world works though, not just this industry.
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You bring up an interesting point. Just what the hell has the acquisition of Netscape gotten for AOL? Was it so they would have a bargaining position when Microsoft saw that they had an alternative to IE? That seems an expensive price to pay, to me.
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God, where are mod points when you need them.
It seems this "community," just like any other, is not incapable of twisting the facts to portray competitors as evil/wrong...
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Microsoft must have tucked its tail between its legs and run to the building management, because they showed up and kicked the SLUG members out of the entrance area.
So from what I read there, and other places in the article, the LUG people were either A) Actually ON Microsoft's area of the floor, or B) in the entrance area in front of it (I wish they put up a floorplan).
How many linux zealots would put up with Microsoft guys handing out CD's in front of or near a Linux booth?
If you want a one-sided, theatrical rendition of the facts, read the article, but please don't let it make up your mind before hearing both sides.
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A) Netscape, as a whole, never had any interest for AOL. They were not going to include an entire Netscape install in their clients. (Why would they want 2 different email clients to confuse the user?) It was ALL about the layout engine for them to embed in their AOL client, and I agree that there's a lot of smack to be talked about Netscape 6 as a whole, but the layout engine is actually very smooth and very fast. For proof, try a windows mozilla build, and then click on the MFCembed.exe, or whatever it is called. It's just the layout engine embedded in a tiny MFC app. It's faster than hell!! Even without IE's preloaded DLL shinanigans, it loads and renders VERY fast. That's an amazing accomplishment.
B) Do you really think the quality of Netscape had anything to do with this decision? This is pure marketing, people. Microsoft has all the power in the world, and AOL NEEDS to be right there on the desktop when Joe User turns on his new Gateway, or they're history. If Microsoft had said "Sure we'll put it on the desktop, but you have to dance on your head." AOL would have to comply.
I'm Netscape's (well actually, Mozilla's) biggest supporter, and this really sucks, but it's just business. Everyone seems to have the solution for Mozilla, but how about this: Drop the cross-platform bull shit. "Winning the browser war" and "cross-platform browser" are mutually exclusive, because you can NEVER make a cross-platform app as fast as it would be if it was only developed for one platform.
Oh well... I think the AOL linux dumb terminal thing (that I've actually seen and played with) will still work out, and it uses mozilla's layout engine. This deal doesn't say anything about AOL not trying anything else like this, so maybe it will take off.
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