This whole "distribution" thing is what it all hinges on, I think. If this company had TWO links for you to download on their page, one their own proprietary front-end, and one GPL'ed shared lib of GPL'ed code, would this be OK? They are not being distributed togther (meaning in the same installer, zip, whatever) right?
If I can make that claim, then the only problem for any company wanting to use GPL'ed code would be the two-download problem (who wants to download two things when installing crap?) This can easily be circumvented by including something that downloads the GPL'ed library from the proprietary installer, so the user/installer does not have to deal with it. As long as you have the source to the GPL'ed shared lib up somewhere, you'd be OK wouldn't you?
Ah, those were the days. When we were a nation that actually did something rather than reflect on past glories.
Thanks for setting me straight, I thought the U.S. was still heavily (leadingly?) involved in the building of the space station, not to mention the enormously scientifically important Hubble.
I think no one notices any more because those things, while amazingly dificult to do and important, are not as TV-friendly as was the moon landings (actually, the FIRST moon landing. By #2, I think everyone was already jaded).
---
Re:Possibly for somethings, not all though.
on
Qt for Mac
·
· Score: 2
If not anything else, initially, KDE made contributions in lots of bug reports and feature requests; those are enormously valuable, in particular for a company with a new product and little resources for testing.
Because KDE made bug reports to trolltech, you paint the picture of trolltech being a greedy company, taking their bug reports and using them to fix their product. And because of this, trolltech now owes something to the world, as if GPL'ing their main product is not enough? Would anyone dare to make this accusation of mozilla, which also relies to a degree on outside users for bug reports? Does mozilla owe us anything, instead of the other way around? The hypocrisy is unbelievable!
And you think trolltech getting back a few patches is somehow "getting more out of" the deal than by KDE having a whole toolkit for their use?
If you want to argue that Qt is "more featureful" or "more mature", forget it. Each of those toolkits has advantages and disadvantages compared to other toolkits, and Qt isn't a clear winner.
We can't compare toolkits based on features and maturity of design? Why the hell not? (Side note: Motif?? Tcl/Tk??? Are you being serious, or did you just type "gui toolkit" into google?)
I think the KDE developers didn't look hard enough and got snookered by a company with an agenda.
Agenda of what? Aside from bug reports, what have they gained out of this? I bunch of ungrateful OSS zealots, pretty much forcing them to GPL their main source of income?
You're as much a babe in the woods when it comes to flaming as when it comes to trusting software vendors.
Trusting software vendors? That statement has undertones of open-source zealotry, which would explain a LOT of your arguments. Doesn't anyone who buys or uses a product from a software company "trust" them?
But let's get to substantiation: maybe you can get TrollTech to remove their false and misleading information about the GPL from their site.
Didn't find anything misleading, sorry. But if you do, by all means point it out to them: info@trolltech.com
---
Re:Possibly for somethings, not all though.
on
Qt for Mac
·
· Score: 5
An 1 year MSDN subscription is cheaper than a Qt developer license, and you get a lot more for your money in terms of tools, documentation, libraries, compilers, etc.
Consider the source! Microsoft has made a habit of bundling software at a lower cost. Do you think MSDN is a better value because it was designed to be so, or because it's got Microsoft's billions behind it (meaning, it's OK if it loses money, whereas Trolltech has to make money on it's only real product). Secondly, I don't remember if MSDN tools run/build on *nix and now the Mac, so maybe you can get back to me on that.
In fact, as far as I am concerned, the only reason Qt is as nice as it is is because of the enormous contributions of the KDE project
What contributions are those? I don't recall any examples of KDE code (which would be GPL) getting back into the early Qt (which were not GPL). This is slashdot, you have to support your claims.
10 years ago, a C++ cross platform GUI library may have been a big deal, these days, they are a dime a dozen.
Please, complete the following, with toolkits that are as featureful and mature as Qt:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
Altogether, I don't think Qt is a good value for commercial projects.
I also think it was a poor choice for the KDE project
Is there an argument behind this, or just the claim? Can this argument even be defended? Do you know if the requirements of the KDE project could be met by anyone else?
(I'm sorry if the flamethrower was on full-blast, but one thing I can't stand is groundless, unsubstantiated claims by zealots.)
---
Re:QT is the best gui toolkit out there
on
Qt for Mac
·
· Score: 5
I wish I had mod points.
The majority of the slashdot community has given nothing but ill-will and flames to all things Qt. It seems everytime there's a positive article about Qt, there's a dozen requisite GTK zealots that start whining: "bla bla bla license bla bla bla GPL bla bla bla I hate C++"
Now, there's complaints like this about how you can't use Qt for shareware. Are you fucking kidding me? Is everyone that desperate to complain about this product? Will trolltech ever catch a break here? I think not. (How's that saying go, about closed minds?)
Hiring from a pool of open/free developers guarantees that I've found someone motivated,
This could not be further from the truth. For every successful open-source project, there are 5 dozen that were started one weekend, and dropped the next, when the developer's interest waned. (Take a look at freshmeat at all the projects who's "last updated" field is like 1999.)
I think it would be better to go through the recruiter, talk to people, regardless of their open-source-ness, and hire whoever seems like a hard worker. A lot of work? Hundreds of resumes? Sure, but that is a different matter for which there are recruiters to help. Applying a "have worked on open-source projects" filter is not beneficial, unless the work was meaningful and consistent.
In any case, I don't think its a great idea to post your email address on a public forum, saying you need game developers!:P I bet he's being bombarded by "Can I have a job? I like video games." emails right about now... --
Family Guy is just stupid funny. Rare is the show that makes me collapse on the floor from laughter.
I hope there's some chance that, if fox cancels it, someone else will pick it up. Like maybe comedy central; all their shows, except for the daily show, suck anyways...
My guess is that they are not out to make a quick buck. They want to establish themselves in the arena, and get a few quality games out there so people can have a reason to buy the system. They'll reap the rewards down the line.
It's scary when a company is so rich it can just dive into whatever they want, spend wads of cash on advertising and R&D, etc., just so they can have their grip on everything.
This is sort of like what they did with the IE bundling, and soon, the MSN messenger bundling (with windows XP).
And you know what else? No one gives a damn... scary. --
And, for that matter, neither did any of the other countless quality open source projects/programs out there that cannot be taken away.
The difference is that the "quality open source programs out there" are by and for Joe Hacker, not Joe User. As such, they are arguably technically superior, but things like logical/easy UI design and documentation are given less priority. This is expected, because hacking is more fun than making the UI easy to follow for the novice, or spending hours writing help documents. Also, billion dollar companies can afford focus groups, and useability tests, to make their apps easier to use.
Linux hasn't failed as a gaming platform.
It has, and it will, until the novice user does not have to jump through a million hoops to get X working, then to get openGL working, then to get the soundcard working, ad nauseum.
if you expect an operating system of its nature to have even 25% of the library of games dependent on Windows and its proprietary gaming graphics/sound/input/etc API.
Ask yourself if the average guy who just wants to play the latest title gives a damn about proprietary vs. open standards.
Take a look at the parent comment. I was replying to his idea that the people who set down the "suspension" are at fault. What a ludicrous idea. They were doing their job, and the next time someone breaks their "zero-tolerance" policy, I hope they do the same.
You asked, "I really don't understand the intent of posting this article on slashdot. How does it apply to anything?" and yet it's clear from your comment that you didn't read the article (or if you did, that you have absolutely no reading comprehension skills).
Actually, I did read the article. And, aside from the kid being a "hacker", I don't see why it's on slashdot. Can you explain that to me? Has slashdot started posting tragic deaths that should not have occured, and we're supposed to discuss them? If the kid had punched a teacher, was suspended, and then killed himself, would we see the story posted here? But because his crime was of hacking, we're supposed to.... what exactly?
Was it your extensive, intuitive knowledge of the particulars + You think maybe somehow your factually bereft opinion is significant, what, because you're utterly ignorant of the particulars but you're what, a CS major, male, a student? Because you're projecting your own disturbed, unstable character onto others to compensate for some other perceived lack in yourself?
Personal attacks? Don't those take credibility away from your counter-argument?
Because he committed suicide, he is "disturbed and unstable"? You might reasonably argue that, but you certainly don't provide a substantive account.
I need to prove that suicide is an action that is performed by the disturbed and unstable??? Nice one.
you're directing your speculation on a dead 13-year old who can't defend himself.
The poor kid is peripheral to my argument that:
A) The parent comment is insane (as are the parents of the kid) to think that the officials who handed down this punishment are at fault, and
B) This piece of news has absolutely no place in a forum for "news for nerds, stuff that matters."
Ya, let's all spend millions of dollars psychologically evaluating every kid who does anything wrong before punishing him, for fear that he might snap and do something crazy like kill himself.
Not to take away from the tragedy, but didn't his parent's notice that the kid was disturbed, after he was sitting home, expelled from school?
I really don't understand the intent of posting this article on slashdot. How does it apply to anything? Because he was a hacker?? You think maybe something similar has happend in the past, for a different crime?
The poor kid was disturbed and unstable, so he did something silly. Not the fault of anyone, because it could not have been predicted.
So, you traded one of these for your ideals and integrity? Ludicrous!!
Why didn't you just take over the family company, and promise you'd change it within 5 years, sort of like Al Pacino in the Godfather's? Oh wait...
--
Re:Good riddance to yet another bad business model
on
Eazel Come, Eazel Go?
·
· Score: 2
I have no idea what your argument is. You state that QT being GPL is a bad thing for people wanting to develop commercial products and sell them. If they want to do that, they can spend $2k on the license, and do what the hell they want, closed, open, whatever; windows, *nix, and (soon) mac. I think that's a strength of QT.
Can they do that with GTK? Isn't GTK GPL-only? Isnt that equally bad for "people who want to develop commercial products and sell them"?
"It had to run in 4k. In fact the 8k version had algorithms that were more efficient but that took up more space. By the time the 4k BASIC was done, the 8k version was out."
So, they began doubling memory requirements starting with their second ever software release, and they've continued until this very day!!
The moderation is supposed to be related to how much the post contributes to the topic
You mean how much the post reinforces the most common ideas here on slashdot, so we can all proceed to kiss our own asses, instead of stating an opinion which might be self-generated and against the status-quo?
I dont think openly insulting someone contributes anything.
Thanks OSI for telling me exactly what to think! Oh, is IBM's license approved by you now? Then I'll consider it for my next project!
Please...
People, if you want to release a project, look at all the licenses out there. Don't go GPL because everyone else is doing it. Don't listen to OSI. Don't let anything but the licenses themselves influence your decision. Read them, choose what seems right for your needs.
You want your shit closed, you say? Think it will get you a wad of cash, or get you something else? Do it. Don't let/. or anyone else be your guide.
Those sound like good ideas. I'm not sure if they've been suggested or not, but if you want to know, you can head over to bugzilla and check. If they're not there, you can file them as request for enhancements (rfe).
Their current work load is focused on finishing features/bugs for NS6.5, but once work on 7.0 starts (end of the summer, last I checked), there will be *lots* of room for feature work.
A) If you don't like the email client, don't use it. It's not taking up your memory or CPU if you just fire up the browser. Does a little envelope icon in the bottom left bother you that much?
B) If you're going to argue that working on the non-Browser sides of the project prevents everyone from working on the browser, that's also incorrect. There are teams. Each team works on their side of the project. If everyone was dumped onto the browser team, NO work would get done, because there is an optimal size.
C) If anything, the other side projects at least have uncovered many bugs, performance knocks, etc, in the UI system that have been fixed.
I happen to think that the mail client is pretty damn good, and on-par with other free clients. The standard support is there, the IMAP is there, the HTML-input is there, the multiple-accounts, the filters, etc. But I'm not exactly impartial.;)
then worry about the 200 applications they want to build into it. But instead they let the engineers run the show which will ultimatly be their downfall.
I interned at Netscape last summer. I worked on the Mail/News client. Let me assure you that there are most definitely phases to the project, and its not just a bunch of engineers sticking in whatever they want. Whatever new idea I had, it was shot down, because we were focusing on bugs at the time. All feature work was put on the back burner. Instead, I, and everyone else, worked on critical bugs.
And let me also assure you that the other projects in Mozilla (IRC, etc) were not created when an engineer said "Screw my bugs, I'm going to work on this." They were created when someone had some free time, or an outside contributor delivered some code.
Did NS6 ship bug free? No, but don't blame that on random engineering if you don't know what you're talking about.
I concur. I remember when the menus were horrendously slow, but my Bookmarks menu takes up the entire vertical screen height, and even it appears really quickly now (April 28 build).
Konqueror rocks. Mozilla rocks. I use konqueror mainly for browsing local API documentation files, etc, because it's nice and lite. When I'm down for some serious browsing, though, when I want javascript to work (no, i'm not insane) or when I want complete (or closer to complete) CSS support, or when I just want the pages I view to layout (more) correctly, I use Mozilla. (For example, Mozilla works better on espn.com, with its complex layout)
I still maintain that you can't really compare konqueror and mozilla because they have different goals and designs.
I agree with the "same theme" thread, though. Themes are good, but it's a pane when every app wants you to go through it's own song & dance to install new themes, that almost always are original works and don't look like anything else on your desktop.
Qt-based mozilla (which was announced a while ago, but I can't get to build) would alleviate some of the memory problems you mentioned, because if you're running kde, Qt is already loaded.
Slashdot Mirror
commonly distributed
This whole "distribution" thing is what it all hinges on, I think. If this company had TWO links for you to download on their page, one their own proprietary front-end, and one GPL'ed shared lib of GPL'ed code, would this be OK? They are not being distributed togther (meaning in the same installer, zip, whatever) right?
If I can make that claim, then the only problem for any company wanting to use GPL'ed code would be the two-download problem (who wants to download two things when installing crap?) This can easily be circumvented by including something that downloads the GPL'ed library from the proprietary installer, so the user/installer does not have to deal with it. As long as you have the source to the GPL'ed shared lib up somewhere, you'd be OK wouldn't you?
---
Ah, those were the days. When we were a nation that actually did something rather than reflect on past glories. Thanks for setting me straight, I thought the U.S. was still heavily (leadingly?) involved in the building of the space station, not to mention the enormously scientifically important Hubble. I think no one notices any more because those things, while amazingly dificult to do and important, are not as TV-friendly as was the moon landings (actually, the FIRST moon landing. By #2, I think everyone was already jaded).
---
If not anything else, initially, KDE made contributions in lots of bug reports and feature requests; those are enormously valuable, in particular for a company with a new product and little resources for testing.
Because KDE made bug reports to trolltech, you paint the picture of trolltech being a greedy company, taking their bug reports and using them to fix their product. And because of this, trolltech now owes something to the world, as if GPL'ing their main product is not enough? Would anyone dare to make this accusation of mozilla, which also relies to a degree on outside users for bug reports? Does mozilla owe us anything, instead of the other way around? The hypocrisy is unbelievable!
And you think trolltech getting back a few patches is somehow "getting more out of" the deal than by KDE having a whole toolkit for their use?
If you want to argue that Qt is "more featureful" or "more mature", forget it. Each of those toolkits has advantages and disadvantages compared to other toolkits, and Qt isn't a clear winner.
We can't compare toolkits based on features and maturity of design? Why the hell not? (Side note: Motif?? Tcl/Tk??? Are you being serious, or did you just type "gui toolkit" into google?)
I think the KDE developers didn't look hard enough and got snookered by a company with an agenda.
Agenda of what? Aside from bug reports, what have they gained out of this? I bunch of ungrateful OSS zealots, pretty much forcing them to GPL their main source of income?
You're as much a babe in the woods when it comes to flaming as when it comes to trusting software vendors.
Trusting software vendors? That statement has undertones of open-source zealotry, which would explain a LOT of your arguments. Doesn't anyone who buys or uses a product from a software company "trust" them?
But let's get to substantiation: maybe you can get TrollTech to remove their false and misleading information about the GPL from their site.
Didn't find anything misleading, sorry. But if you do, by all means point it out to them: info@trolltech.com
---
An 1 year MSDN subscription is cheaper than a Qt developer license, and you get a lot more for your money in terms of tools, documentation, libraries, compilers, etc.
Consider the source! Microsoft has made a habit of bundling software at a lower cost. Do you think MSDN is a better value because it was designed to be so, or because it's got Microsoft's billions behind it (meaning, it's OK if it loses money, whereas Trolltech has to make money on it's only real product). Secondly, I don't remember if MSDN tools run/build on *nix and now the Mac, so maybe you can get back to me on that.
In fact, as far as I am concerned, the only reason Qt is as nice as it is is because of the enormous contributions of the KDE project
What contributions are those? I don't recall any examples of KDE code (which would be GPL) getting back into the early Qt (which were not GPL). This is slashdot, you have to support your claims.
10 years ago, a C++ cross platform GUI library may have been a big deal, these days, they are a dime a dozen.
Please, complete the following, with toolkits that are as featureful and mature as Qt:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
Altogether, I don't think Qt is a good value for commercial projects.
http://www.trolltech.com/references/customers/. It seems AT&T, NASA, Ford, IBM, and Intel, among others, disagree with you.
I also think it was a poor choice for the KDE project
Is there an argument behind this, or just the claim? Can this argument even be defended? Do you know if the requirements of the KDE project could be met by anyone else?
(I'm sorry if the flamethrower was on full-blast, but one thing I can't stand is groundless, unsubstantiated claims by zealots.)
---
I wish I had mod points.
The majority of the slashdot community has given nothing but ill-will and flames to all things Qt. It seems everytime there's a positive article about Qt, there's a dozen requisite GTK zealots that start whining: "bla bla bla license bla bla bla GPL bla bla bla I hate C++"
Now, there's complaints like this about how you can't use Qt for shareware. Are you fucking kidding me? Is everyone that desperate to complain about this product? Will trolltech ever catch a break here? I think not. (How's that saying go, about closed minds?)
---
Completely true. The guy writes:
:P I bet he's being bombarded by "Can I have a job? I like video games." emails right about now...
Hiring from a pool of open/free developers guarantees that I've found someone motivated,
This could not be further from the truth. For every successful open-source project, there are 5 dozen that were started one weekend, and dropped the next, when the developer's interest waned. (Take a look at freshmeat at all the projects who's "last updated" field is like 1999.)
I think it would be better to go through the recruiter, talk to people, regardless of their open-source-ness, and hire whoever seems like a hard worker. A lot of work? Hundreds of resumes? Sure, but that is a different matter for which there are recruiters to help. Applying a "have worked on open-source projects" filter is not beneficial, unless the work was meaningful and consistent.
In any case, I don't think its a great idea to post your email address on a public forum, saying you need game developers!
--
Family Guy is just stupid funny. Rare is the show that makes me collapse on the floor from laughter.
I hope there's some chance that, if fox cancels it, someone else will pick it up. Like maybe comedy central; all their shows, except for the daily show, suck anyways...
--
It's disgusting how much I can't wait for that game. But is it good enough to buy a PS2? I don't know about that.
:)
I'll just mooch off of friends who have the system.
--
My guess is that they are not out to make a quick buck. They want to establish themselves in the arena, and get a few quality games out there so people can have a reason to buy the system. They'll reap the rewards down the line.
It's scary when a company is so rich it can just dive into whatever they want, spend wads of cash on advertising and R&D, etc., just so they can have their grip on everything.
This is sort of like what they did with the IE bundling, and soon, the MSN messenger bundling (with windows XP).
And you know what else? No one gives a damn... scary.
--
And, for that matter, neither did any of the other countless quality open source projects/programs out there that cannot be taken away.
The difference is that the "quality open source programs out there" are by and for Joe Hacker, not Joe User. As such, they are arguably technically superior, but things like logical/easy UI design and documentation are given less priority. This is expected, because hacking is more fun than making the UI easy to follow for the novice, or spending hours writing help documents. Also, billion dollar companies can afford focus groups, and useability tests, to make their apps easier to use.
Linux hasn't failed as a gaming platform.
It has, and it will, until the novice user does not have to jump through a million hoops to get X working, then to get openGL working, then to get the soundcard working, ad nauseum.
if you expect an operating system of its nature to have even 25% of the library of games dependent on Windows and its proprietary gaming graphics/sound/input/etc API.
Ask yourself if the average guy who just wants to play the latest title gives a damn about proprietary vs. open standards.
--
Are thirteen year old kids usually noted for being emotionally stable? Isn't this something an educator should consider before making threats?
You're right. I suggest not punishing kids at all, or informing them of the consquences of their actions, until they are at least 18.
--
Take a look at the parent comment. I was replying to his idea that the people who set down the "suspension" are at fault. What a ludicrous idea. They were doing their job, and the next time someone breaks their "zero-tolerance" policy, I hope they do the same.
You asked, "I really don't understand the intent of posting this article on slashdot. How does it apply to anything?" and yet it's clear from your comment that you didn't read the article (or if you did, that you have absolutely no reading comprehension skills).
Actually, I did read the article. And, aside from the kid being a "hacker", I don't see why it's on slashdot. Can you explain that to me? Has slashdot started posting tragic deaths that should not have occured, and we're supposed to discuss them? If the kid had punched a teacher, was suspended, and then killed himself, would we see the story posted here? But because his crime was of hacking, we're supposed to.... what exactly?
Was it your extensive, intuitive knowledge of the particulars +
You think maybe somehow your factually bereft opinion is significant, what, because you're utterly ignorant of the particulars but you're what, a CS major, male, a student? Because you're projecting your own disturbed, unstable character onto others to compensate for some other perceived lack in yourself?
Personal attacks? Don't those take credibility away from your counter-argument?
Because he committed suicide, he is "disturbed and unstable"? You might reasonably argue that, but you certainly don't provide a substantive account.
I need to prove that suicide is an action that is performed by the disturbed and unstable??? Nice one.
you're directing your speculation on a dead 13-year old who can't defend himself.
The poor kid is peripheral to my argument that:
A) The parent comment is insane (as are the parents of the kid) to think that the officials who handed down this punishment are at fault, and
B) This piece of news has absolutely no place in a forum for "news for nerds, stuff that matters."
(Now, go ahead and mod me as a troll.)
--
Ya, let's all spend millions of dollars psychologically evaluating every kid who does anything wrong before punishing him, for fear that he might snap and do something crazy like kill himself.
Not to take away from the tragedy, but didn't his parent's notice that the kid was disturbed, after he was sitting home, expelled from school?
I really don't understand the intent of posting this article on slashdot. How does it apply to anything? Because he was a hacker?? You think maybe something similar has happend in the past, for a different crime?
The poor kid was disturbed and unstable, so he did something silly. Not the fault of anyone, because it could not have been predicted.
--
So, you traded one of these for your ideals and integrity? Ludicrous!!
Why didn't you just take over the family company, and promise you'd change it within 5 years, sort of like Al Pacino in the Godfather's? Oh wait...
--
I have no idea what your argument is. You state that QT being GPL is a bad thing for people wanting to develop commercial products and sell them. If they want to do that, they can spend $2k on the license, and do what the hell they want, closed, open, whatever; windows, *nix, and (soon) mac. I think that's a strength of QT.
Can they do that with GTK? Isn't GTK GPL-only? Isnt that equally bad for "people who want to develop commercial products and sell them"?
My brain's parser fails on your last paragraph...
--
"It had to run in 4k. In fact the 8k version had algorithms that were more efficient but that took up more space. By the time the 4k BASIC was done, the 8k version was out."
So, they began doubling memory requirements starting with their second ever software release, and they've continued until this very day!!
--
The moderation is supposed to be related to how much the post contributes to the topic
You mean how much the post reinforces the most common ideas here on slashdot, so we can all proceed to kiss our own asses, instead of stating an opinion which might be self-generated and against the status-quo?
I dont think openly insulting someone contributes anything.
"Nevertheless, he is a genius."
I wish more people would insult me that way.
--
Thanks OSI for telling me exactly what to think! Oh, is IBM's license approved by you now? Then I'll consider it for my next project!
/. or anyone else be your guide.
Please...
People, if you want to release a project, look at all the licenses out there. Don't go GPL because everyone else is doing it. Don't listen to OSI. Don't let anything but the licenses themselves influence your decision. Read them, choose what seems right for your needs.
You want your shit closed, you say? Think it will get you a wad of cash, or get you something else? Do it. Don't let
--
Those sound like good ideas. I'm not sure if they've been suggested or not, but if you want to know, you can head over to bugzilla and check. If they're not there, you can file them as request for enhancements (rfe).
Their current work load is focused on finishing features/bugs for NS6.5, but once work on 7.0 starts (end of the summer, last I checked), there will be *lots* of room for feature work.
--
A) If you don't like the email client, don't use it. It's not taking up your memory or CPU if you just fire up the browser. Does a little envelope icon in the bottom left bother you that much?
;)
B) If you're going to argue that working on the non-Browser sides of the project prevents everyone from working on the browser, that's also incorrect. There are teams. Each team works on their side of the project. If everyone was dumped onto the browser team, NO work would get done, because there is an optimal size.
C) If anything, the other side projects at least have uncovered many bugs, performance knocks, etc, in the UI system that have been fixed.
I happen to think that the mail client is pretty damn good, and on-par with other free clients. The standard support is there, the IMAP is there, the HTML-input is there, the multiple-accounts, the filters, etc. But I'm not exactly impartial.
--
then worry about the 200 applications they want to build into it. But instead they let the engineers run the show which will ultimatly be their downfall.
I interned at Netscape last summer. I worked on the Mail/News client. Let me assure you that there are most definitely phases to the project, and its not just a bunch of engineers sticking in whatever they want. Whatever new idea I had, it was shot down, because we were focusing on bugs at the time. All feature work was put on the back burner. Instead, I, and everyone else, worked on critical bugs.
And let me also assure you that the other projects in Mozilla (IRC, etc) were not created when an engineer said "Screw my bugs, I'm going to work on this." They were created when someone had some free time, or an outside contributor delivered some code.
Did NS6 ship bug free? No, but don't blame that on random engineering if you don't know what you're talking about.
--
Why is it whenever I hear the term "extreme programming," I picture some guy jumping out of a plane with a parachute and a laptop?
--
Is it just me, or is this one hideously ugly GUI
t ml
:P (It can run any other WM, right?)
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/screenshot.h
I wish the GUI was "beatiful" instead of the source.
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I concur. I remember when the menus were horrendously slow, but my Bookmarks menu takes up the entire vertical screen height, and even it appears really quickly now (April 28 build).
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Konqueror rocks. Mozilla rocks. I use konqueror mainly for browsing local API documentation files, etc, because it's nice and lite. When I'm down for some serious browsing, though, when I want javascript to work (no, i'm not insane) or when I want complete (or closer to complete) CSS support, or when I just want the pages I view to layout (more) correctly, I use Mozilla. (For example, Mozilla works better on espn.com, with its complex layout)
I still maintain that you can't really compare konqueror and mozilla because they have different goals and designs.
I agree with the "same theme" thread, though. Themes are good, but it's a pane when every app wants you to go through it's own song & dance to install new themes, that almost always are original works and don't look like anything else on your desktop.
Qt-based mozilla (which was announced a while ago, but I can't get to build) would alleviate some of the memory problems you mentioned, because if you're running kde, Qt is already loaded.
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