I bet you also believe that the graphics in Final Fantasy: The Shadows Within are objectively better than those in, say, Shrek. Yet there are a lot of people who think that Shrek looks better.
I don't really care that FPS and shading are better in a cel-shaded game than in a normal animated cartoon. Cel-shading still looks ugly.
This same comment got a -1 Flamebait in another thread. I guess all the fanboys either went to sleep or aren't interested in an article that's not completely about Nintendo.
I could understand if you said you didn't like like cartoon style graphics. If you left things at that, it would simply be a matter of taste and would be understandable.
But Zelda looks better than the vast majority of cartoons.
Are you trying to tell me that this isn't a matter of taste?
Actually, no it isn't. To clarify: Cel-shading is the only way to create cartoonish graphics in a real-time 3D engine. Cel-shading is ugly. Therefore, there are only two non-ugly ways to make Zelda:
1. Make Zelda 2D again. 2. Make Zelda not cel-shaded.
Since #1 is unlikely to be accepted by most gamers, #2 is the only non-ugly way to make Zelda. Since non-ugly is better than ugly, #2 is the way Zelda "should be."
How can you make an assumption that the graphics would hamper your enjoyment of the game if you've never played it?
After about five seconds of watching the E3 trailer, I had to restrain the urge to put my fist through my monitor. That's a pretty big clue. Maybe I could get beyond that if I actually played the game, but it's doubtful.
I haven't played Wind Waker, which is why I've never made any claims on its gameplay. But claims about its graphics are quite easy to make, and since we have no clue what the gameplay of "Real Zelda" will be like either, they are the only claims that are relevant.
Some Cartoony games of Awesomness: Sam and Max: Hit the Road Day of the Tentacle
There's a difference between hand-drawn sprites and cel-shading. One is ugly; the other isn't. Though I admit that some cel-shaded games don't look completely awful (e.g. Robotech Battlecry).
Rob (I'll have to assume that the "hipster" comment was sarcasm)
You know that the Spaceworld 2000 demo you're talking about was a tech demo, right?
I've heard this argument before, and it doesn't hold water. There's a difference between making tech demos that obviously wouldn't make interesting games (the ping-pong ball XBox demo, for example) or tech demos that are of already-made games (the N64 FF6 demo) and tech demos that are indistinguishable from new game footage. There's also a difference between making a game that's only slightly different from the tech demo and making a game that's almost completely different from the tech demo.
2. Non-mainstream underground X-rated (Japanese or otherwise) games aren't eligible because they aren't accessible to the mainstream and consequently their cultural influence is nominal.
Yeah, I would argue that Custer's Revenge had a bit more than nominal influence, but what can you do?
A scan through the thousands of postings on the "Half-Life 2" boards at www.gamefaqs.com reveals titles like: "that means im happy," "is it a hoax or is hl2 final almost here???" "Anger... Rage... Hate," "Very very VERY ANNOYING BUG!" and "I Feel Like Going Insane!!!!"
Funny stuff. I can almost believe that Pong beat River City Ransom on their "best game ever" poll (not to mention that lamer from Shenmue beating Guybrush Threepwood in their "best character ever" poll some years ago).
Rob
P.S. I had to edit the quotes because of the junk filter. Haw haw haw!
The SMB2 in America isn't an SMB at all, but rather a hack of Doki Doki Panic. The real SMB2 is almost exactly like the first one (which, incidentally, is why Nintendo was afraid of releasing it over here).
I still play DDR, but this covers my thoughts about that quote exactly. Besides, you could easily say the same thing about most of the guys that try DDR.
I'm willing to bet that Lyra is one of those female anime otakus who couldn't imagine actually having sex with a real guy, so she's obsessed with yaoi drawings and Harry Potter slash fanfics.
Slashdot Mirror
I bet you also believe that the graphics in Final Fantasy: The Shadows Within are objectively better than those in, say, Shrek. Yet there are a lot of people who think that Shrek looks better.
I don't really care that FPS and shading are better in a cel-shaded game than in a normal animated cartoon. Cel-shading still looks ugly.
Rob
This same comment got a -1 Flamebait in another thread. I guess all the fanboys either went to sleep or aren't interested in an article that's not completely about Nintendo.
Rob
I could understand if you said you didn't like like cartoon style graphics. If you left things at that, it would simply be a matter of taste and would be understandable.
But Zelda looks better than the vast majority of cartoons.
Are you trying to tell me that this isn't a matter of taste?
Rob
Actually, no it isn't. To clarify: Cel-shading is the only way to create cartoonish graphics in a real-time 3D engine. Cel-shading is ugly. Therefore, there are only two non-ugly ways to make Zelda:
1. Make Zelda 2D again.
2. Make Zelda not cel-shaded.
Since #1 is unlikely to be accepted by most gamers, #2 is the only non-ugly way to make Zelda. Since non-ugly is better than ugly, #2 is the way Zelda "should be."
Rob
How can you make an assumption that the graphics would hamper your enjoyment of the game if you've never played it?
After about five seconds of watching the E3 trailer, I had to restrain the urge to put my fist through my monitor. That's a pretty big clue. Maybe I could get beyond that if I actually played the game, but it's doubtful.
Rob
I haven't played Wind Waker, which is why I've never made any claims on its gameplay. But claims about its graphics are quite easy to make, and since we have no clue what the gameplay of "Real Zelda" will be like either, they are the only claims that are relevant.
Rob
If this comment had been made about MS, Sony, or EA, it would be modded 5 Funny right now.
Rob (Slashdot, land of the Nintendo fanboys)
i'm saying graphic style shouldn't matter so much.
It shouldn't, but when a game's graphics are so offensive to the senses that they hamper your enjoyment of the game, it does.
Rob
You do realize that every Zelda except for the N64 ones had a cartoon look to it, right?
I refer you to the reply I made to buffer-overflowed.
Rob
Some Cartoony games of Awesomness:
Sam and Max: Hit the Road
Day of the Tentacle
There's a difference between hand-drawn sprites and cel-shading. One is ugly; the other isn't. Though I admit that some cel-shaded games don't look completely awful (e.g. Robotech Battlecry).
Rob (I'll have to assume that the "hipster" comment was sarcasm)
This is not CGI we're talking about. This is engine-rendered stuff. Wouldn't make much sense to pre-render something that you can do on-the-fly.
Rob
I wasn't aware that having eyes that hurt when exposed to saccharine-covered graphics made one inferior.
Rob (Pull your pants up, your fanboyism is showing)
You know that the Spaceworld 2000 demo you're talking about was a tech demo, right?
I've heard this argument before, and it doesn't hold water. There's a difference between making tech demos that obviously wouldn't make interesting games (the ping-pong ball XBox demo, for example) or tech demos that are of already-made games (the N64 FF6 demo) and tech demos that are indistinguishable from new game footage. There's also a difference between making a game that's only slightly different from the tech demo and making a game that's almost completely different from the tech demo.
Rob
Great. I'm glad the ugly cel-shading fad didn't affect that franchise for longer than one game.
Rob
2. Non-mainstream underground X-rated (Japanese or otherwise) games aren't eligible because they aren't accessible to the mainstream and consequently their cultural influence is nominal.
Yeah, I would argue that Custer's Revenge had a bit more than nominal influence, but what can you do?
Rob
You might as well have just said "ValuSoft." It's not like no one knows who you're talking about.
Rob (I hope Something Awful doesn't send a hit team to your house)
So, ever tried games for entertainment?
Maybe you should ask that question to people like Lyra who have utter disdain for gaming neophytes.
If you're *not* a freak among otaku, how do you know about girls obsessing over little known anime characters like Yaoi?
I wasn't talking about a character.
Rob (Someone actually named a character "Yaoi"? That's hilarious)
The atmosphere is dark, the pacing of the demo somewhat slow, and every aspect more fitting of a survival horror game than a run and gun shooter
Well, I guess that just confirms that I'll be playing HL2 first.
Rob
It's not a contest of whichever game was actually BETTER.
Hence the title of the poll, "Most Popular Game Ever."
Oh, wait, no it's not.
Rob
A scan through the thousands of postings on the "Half-Life 2" boards at www.gamefaqs.com reveals titles like: "that means im happy," "is it a hoax or is hl2 final almost here???" "Anger ... Rage ... Hate," "Very very VERY ANNOYING BUG!" and "I Feel Like Going Insane!!!!"
Funny stuff. I can almost believe that Pong beat River City Ransom on their "best game ever" poll (not to mention that lamer from Shenmue beating Guybrush Threepwood in their "best character ever" poll some years ago).
Rob
P.S. I had to edit the quotes because of the junk filter. Haw haw haw!
Star Control 3 is pretty underrated, actually. The gameplay isn't as good as that of SC2, but SC2 is one of the best PC games ever made.
If any of the SC games suck, it's the first one. All it is is the melee mode in the other two games with a weak strategic foundation.
Rob
The SMB2 in America isn't an SMB at all, but rather a hack of Doki Doki Panic. The real SMB2 is almost exactly like the first one (which, incidentally, is why Nintendo was afraid of releasing it over here).
Rob
I still play DDR, but this covers my thoughts about that quote exactly. Besides, you could easily say the same thing about most of the guys that try DDR.
I'm willing to bet that Lyra is one of those female anime otakus who couldn't imagine actually having sex with a real guy, so she's obsessed with yaoi drawings and Harry Potter slash fanfics.
Rob
I'm afraid my point is too subtle for you, so I guess I'll have to make it clearer.
A car without gasoline is still a car. A console without games is still a console. A game without gameplay is no longer a game.
Get it now?
Rob
And what will your car do seperate from gasoline? Nothing.
What does your car doing nothing have to do with its existence as a car?
Rob