Re:"even if this is arguable these days"?
on
When Robots Play Games
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· Score: 2, Informative
It's obviously a reference to how stupid people seem to be these days. Of course, evolution only enhances intelligence when intelligence is required to better survive and procreate--but it's a joke, you're not supposed to read that much into it anyway.
I wouldn't be surprised if that EGM article was a joke. Those kids talk like Dawson's Creek cast members.
Anyway, most of the games that they looked at really do suck by today's standards. The fact that they inspired the games that we have today is irrelevant. Just because Mario 64 is a great game doesn't mean that most people would enjoy playing SMB1 for more than a few minutes.
But the kids who bashed Tetris? They deserve to die.
Sega has already released Sonic arcade games in the past, and yes, one of the games was a fighting game.
See, my point was that if Sammy keeps Sonic, any Sonic game that comes out from now on will likely be very different from the Sonic games that we're used to. It won't be the same franchise that people have grown attached to anymore.
Regarding some genres like RPGs and lengthy adventures not being suited for arcades, you might be surprised to see what concepts can "work" in Japanese arcades.
I already know that the Japanese have some weird concepts when it comes to gaming, but how likely do you think it is that they'll be translated to English-speaking audiences?
"[Sammy president] Satomi-san, who will be president of the new merged company, has previously expressed his desire to see Sega focusing increasingly on the arcade market"
Tell me, how well do you think Sonic would translate to the arcade? Keep in mind that now-a-days the arcade scene is dominated by rhythm and fighting games. Or how about a game that would never possibly work in an arcade, like Phantasy Star or Shenmue?
I agree that there would normally be no reason for Sammy to gut Sega, but when the president of the company says that he wants to turn Sega into primarily an arcade developer, things don't look good on that front.
If Sammy so much as lays a finger on Yuji Naga, Sonic Team, or anything in the Sonic franchise, then more heads will roll. Hiroshima will look like a firecracker in comparison. I will give them a new definition for "seppuku." And I will beat the ever-loving crap out of every goddamn Sammy executive, then shove flaming piles of their own yen up their asses.
No you won't.
But yeah, it looks like this might be the end for Sonic, not to mention many of Sega's other franchises. RIP, Sega. Maybe Sammy will sell franchise rights to Nintendo or something, but I won't be holding my breath.
When was the idea of a remake of MG2 ever tossed about in an official capacity?
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that I thought that it was. Sure, I hoped that MGS3 would be an MG2 remake way back when the media was reporting vague bits of information about it (e.g. it was a prequel set in Central Asia), but it never went beyond that.
...is that it's not a remake of the real Metal Gear 2 (as opposed to the poor substitute that America originally got, Snake's Revenge). Should be interesting to see a story about another Snake, though, even if it is as clogged with narrative as MGS2 was.
You think a Moogle who attck by dancing or a pre-teen girl who attacks by painting pictures were cliched when FF6 came out?
I'm talking about cliched characters, not cliched powers. I could quite easily write a character that is stereotypical in every way but special ability. Here's one: A naive, happy-go-lucky elf maiden who attacks evil with the power of math.
As for FF4, you're way off base, or perhaps you don't understand what one dimensional and two dimensional characters mean. FF1 had one dimensional characters, they only had one dimension to them, their jobs.
By "one-dimensional" I mean that there's absolutely no believable character development. Cecil starts out as a Dark Knight, then suddenly becomes a Paladin with little to no introspection (unless you count that lame battle with his old self as "introspection"). Kain flip-flops loyalties like a double-agent on speed for no reason other than Golbez's hypnotic powers. The other FF4 characters are even worse; Rosa, for example, serves no story purpose other than that of the damsel-in-distress and love interest, and Edward is just the perennial coward-suddenly-turned-hero.
(By "two-dimensional," before you ask, I'm referring to when a character has believable development, but not much else. A three-dimensional character would have various facets of character other than those being developed; depth, in other words.)
You can make a fully developed three dimensional character using only a stack of cliches, the two are not mutually exclusice.
Oh, I agree. Squall of FF8 is an excellent example of that. Cloud of FF7 and Tidus of FFX are also pretty good.
What do you have against FF9 as opposed to the other later FFs?
Unlike all of the other FFs, it doesn't even try to be unique. (Which, of course, makes it unique. Hah.) There's also the fact that it goes back to old, unfulfilling modes of story and characterization.
Oh, and the main character has a tail. Come on, a tail.
Personally i throught FF8 was a lot more cliched and stupid than FF9.
If well-written characters and deep gameplay are "cliched and stupid," then I'll have to agree with you.
BTW, FFXI also falls short on characterization and so forth, but I figured that was a given, and I didn't want to make the later FFs look weaker because of a game that really doesn't belong in the series in the first place.
I was talking about extracting the XBOX os from whatever it is stored on in the XBOX. My guess is it's some kind of flash ROM, since something like an IDE compliant HD or something would be far too convenient for people who might want to take a look at it.
However, most contrary arguments are arguing that MS is not losing money when you buy an Xbox. Of course they're not, the Xbox was already made and just sitting there. If no one bought it, MS would lose whatever it cost to manufacture, package, and ship.
The problem with this is that it assumes that MS won't manufacture another XBox to replace the one that you bought. While this assumption is probably true towards the end of the XBox's life, it's not in the middle.
Of course, it's not like MS can just start and stop XBox production on a dime. XBox production is, for the most part, a sunken cost. And, as you say, stronger XBox sales lead to a stronger reputation for XBox in the gaming industry. So chances are you're not really hurting MS if you buy an XBox without using it for its "intended purpose," and even if you were, it would be a drop in the bucket compared to revenues that dwarf GNPs of third-world countries. The best way to hurt MS is to simply not use its products.
Ignoring the ninja/ex-family man, monk, samurai, mysterious power-girl (Tina/Terra), paladin (Celes), thief, gambler/cad/pilot, and beast, we have Edgar (a tool-wielding machinist king???), Relm (child painter with powers of possession), Gogo (magical mime with the power to duplicate allies' attacks), Gau (beast boy with the power to emulate enemies), and Mog (dancing moguri/moogle).
Yes, those are some fine examples of cliched, two-dimensional characters. Better than the ones in earlier FFs, perhaps (FF4 had one-dimensional characters, for instance, and FF1 didn't have real playable characters at all), but not better than the ones in the later FFs (except FF9, of course).
Don't get me wrong; FF7 had cliched characters in it too. But the sheer number of characters in FF6 works against it. A game with nearly 20 playable characters (and a number of NPCs) can't compete as far as characterization goes.
Before you ask, I still have a copy of FF6 sitting around here somewhere. I used to have a copy of FF7, but the person I let borrow it lost it.
FF6 didn't have cliched characters? You must be joking. Either that, or you're one of the many people who remember FF6 as being much better than it was. And FF5's characters were just... bleh. Except for Gilgamesh, anyway, who was at least passable.
As for FF7, a remake would be nice, but I'd rather see brand new games.
What is this... Halo 2... slated to likely be The, no, make that THE, game of the year, is completely ignored on Slashdot. Just because we're computer games does NOT mean we don't play consoles. I mean, come on... if it's not a PC shooter, it's not good?
Console FPSes tend to have much worse control than PC FPSes due to the different input devices. That's why I prefer PC Halo to XBox Halo even without the cooperative mode.
Anyway, I think the reason why Halo 2 in particular is being ignored isn't because it's a console FPS, but because it was already hyped up last year. Besides, even though Halo was decent, it was disappointing compared to Bungie's previous offerings. Oh, and there's also HL2 and Doom 3 grabbing the attention of FPS fans.
PSO had a complete single-player mode, much like the Diablo games. You didn't need the help of other geeks to play through it. Of course, the game was still online-focused, which made the story quality suffer somewhat.
MTE. I even thought the announcement of PSU was bigger.
I was really hoping for another SEGA console
I wasn't; Sega's proven itself incapable of handling the hardware side of the industry. What I was expecting was an MMO version of one of Sega's non-Phantasy-Star franchises, like Sonic. I guess I was close.
Goddammit, why do I always say "The Shadows Within"?
Spirits. Spirits.
Since I have to make another post anyway, I might as well head off any further argument by explaining why I think cel-shading is ugly. The main problem is the effect that was publicized when FF: TSW came out--the more realistic something looks, the worse its flaws look in comparison. It's easy to overlook all sorts of flaws in a 2D cartoon because, well, it's 2D. When you make it 3D, all of those flaws you missed before become much more apparent. In effect, what looks fine in 2D can look really gross in 3D.
Slashdot Mirror
It's obviously a reference to how stupid people seem to be these days. Of course, evolution only enhances intelligence when intelligence is required to better survive and procreate--but it's a joke, you're not supposed to read that much into it anyway.
Rob
How do I become a professional gamer?
Rob (Damn misleading headlines)
You said it yourself--it's Tetris. (Too bad I can't link directly to the video.)
Rob (Best theme music ever)
I wouldn't be surprised if that EGM article was a joke. Those kids talk like Dawson's Creek cast members.
Anyway, most of the games that they looked at really do suck by today's standards. The fact that they inspired the games that we have today is irrelevant. Just because Mario 64 is a great game doesn't mean that most people would enjoy playing SMB1 for more than a few minutes.
But the kids who bashed Tetris? They deserve to die.
Rob
Sega has already released Sonic arcade games in the past, and yes, one of the games was a fighting game.
See, my point was that if Sammy keeps Sonic, any Sonic game that comes out from now on will likely be very different from the Sonic games that we're used to. It won't be the same franchise that people have grown attached to anymore.
Regarding some genres like RPGs and lengthy adventures not being suited for arcades, you might be surprised to see what concepts can "work" in Japanese arcades.
I already know that the Japanese have some weird concepts when it comes to gaming, but how likely do you think it is that they'll be translated to English-speaking audiences?
Rob
So there are people logging in every few days just to keep their characters alive? Why aren't they actually playing the game instead?
Rob
"[Sammy president] Satomi-san, who will be president of the new merged company, has previously expressed his desire to see Sega focusing increasingly on the arcade market"
Tell me, how well do you think Sonic would translate to the arcade? Keep in mind that now-a-days the arcade scene is dominated by rhythm and fighting games. Or how about a game that would never possibly work in an arcade, like Phantasy Star or Shenmue?
I agree that there would normally be no reason for Sammy to gut Sega, but when the president of the company says that he wants to turn Sega into primarily an arcade developer, things don't look good on that front.
Rob
If Sammy so much as lays a finger on Yuji Naga, Sonic Team, or anything in the Sonic franchise, then more heads will roll. Hiroshima will look like a firecracker in comparison. I will give them a new definition for "seppuku." And I will beat the ever-loving crap out of every goddamn Sammy executive, then shove flaming piles of their own yen up their asses.
No you won't.
But yeah, it looks like this might be the end for Sonic, not to mention many of Sega's other franchises. RIP, Sega. Maybe Sammy will sell franchise rights to Nintendo or something, but I won't be holding my breath.
Rob
Maybe Blizzard or EA should look into it.
Rob
Those gold medal games must be awesome, then.
Rob
Remember, the Japanese are a lot more interested in FFXI than EQ too.
Rob
Well, the thing is that MGS2's story is an order of magnitude more goofy. The ratio between gameplay and narrative was also worse.
Rob
When was the idea of a remake of MG2 ever tossed about in an official capacity?
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that I thought that it was. Sure, I hoped that MGS3 would be an MG2 remake way back when the media was reporting vague bits of information about it (e.g. it was a prequel set in Central Asia), but it never went beyond that.
Rob
...is that it's not a remake of the real Metal Gear 2 (as opposed to the poor substitute that America originally got, Snake's Revenge). Should be interesting to see a story about another Snake, though, even if it is as clogged with narrative as MGS2 was.
Rob
You think a Moogle who attck by dancing or a pre-teen girl who attacks by painting pictures were cliched when FF6 came out?
I'm talking about cliched characters, not cliched powers. I could quite easily write a character that is stereotypical in every way but special ability. Here's one: A naive, happy-go-lucky elf maiden who attacks evil with the power of math.
As for FF4, you're way off base, or perhaps you don't understand what one dimensional and two dimensional characters mean. FF1 had one dimensional characters, they only had one dimension to them, their jobs.
By "one-dimensional" I mean that there's absolutely no believable character development. Cecil starts out as a Dark Knight, then suddenly becomes a Paladin with little to no introspection (unless you count that lame battle with his old self as "introspection"). Kain flip-flops loyalties like a double-agent on speed for no reason other than Golbez's hypnotic powers. The other FF4 characters are even worse; Rosa, for example, serves no story purpose other than that of the damsel-in-distress and love interest, and Edward is just the perennial coward-suddenly-turned-hero.
(By "two-dimensional," before you ask, I'm referring to when a character has believable development, but not much else. A three-dimensional character would have various facets of character other than those being developed; depth, in other words.)
You can make a fully developed three dimensional character using only a stack of cliches, the two are not mutually exclusice.
Oh, I agree. Squall of FF8 is an excellent example of that. Cloud of FF7 and Tidus of FFX are also pretty good.
What do you have against FF9 as opposed to the other later FFs?
Unlike all of the other FFs, it doesn't even try to be unique. (Which, of course, makes it unique. Hah.) There's also the fact that it goes back to old, unfulfilling modes of story and characterization.
Oh, and the main character has a tail. Come on, a tail.
Personally i throught FF8 was a lot more cliched and stupid than FF9.
If well-written characters and deep gameplay are "cliched and stupid," then I'll have to agree with you.
BTW, FFXI also falls short on characterization and so forth, but I figured that was a given, and I didn't want to make the later FFs look weaker because of a game that really doesn't belong in the series in the first place.
Rob
I was talking about extracting the XBOX os from whatever it is stored on in the XBOX. My guess is it's some kind of flash ROM, since something like an IDE compliant HD or something would be far too convenient for people who might want to take a look at it.
Heh. Boy, would you be surprised.
Rob
However, most contrary arguments are arguing that MS is not losing money when you buy an Xbox. Of course they're not, the Xbox was already made and just sitting there. If no one bought it, MS would lose whatever it cost to manufacture, package, and ship.
The problem with this is that it assumes that MS won't manufacture another XBox to replace the one that you bought. While this assumption is probably true towards the end of the XBox's life, it's not in the middle.
Of course, it's not like MS can just start and stop XBox production on a dime. XBox production is, for the most part, a sunken cost. And, as you say, stronger XBox sales lead to a stronger reputation for XBox in the gaming industry. So chances are you're not really hurting MS if you buy an XBox without using it for its "intended purpose," and even if you were, it would be a drop in the bucket compared to revenues that dwarf GNPs of third-world countries. The best way to hurt MS is to simply not use its products.
Rob
Ignoring the ninja/ex-family man, monk, samurai, mysterious power-girl (Tina/Terra), paladin (Celes), thief, gambler/cad/pilot, and beast, we have Edgar (a tool-wielding machinist king???), Relm (child painter with powers of possession), Gogo (magical mime with the power to duplicate allies' attacks), Gau (beast boy with the power to emulate enemies), and Mog (dancing moguri/moogle).
Yes, those are some fine examples of cliched, two-dimensional characters. Better than the ones in earlier FFs, perhaps (FF4 had one-dimensional characters, for instance, and FF1 didn't have real playable characters at all), but not better than the ones in the later FFs (except FF9, of course).
Don't get me wrong; FF7 had cliched characters in it too. But the sheer number of characters in FF6 works against it. A game with nearly 20 playable characters (and a number of NPCs) can't compete as far as characterization goes.
Before you ask, I still have a copy of FF6 sitting around here somewhere. I used to have a copy of FF7, but the person I let borrow it lost it.
Rob
FF6 didn't have cliched characters? You must be joking. Either that, or you're one of the many people who remember FF6 as being much better than it was. And FF5's characters were just... bleh. Except for Gilgamesh, anyway, who was at least passable.
As for FF7, a remake would be nice, but I'd rather see brand new games.
Rob
What is this... Halo 2... slated to likely be The, no, make that THE, game of the year, is completely ignored on Slashdot. Just because we're computer games does NOT mean we don't play consoles. I mean, come on... if it's not a PC shooter, it's not good?
Console FPSes tend to have much worse control than PC FPSes due to the different input devices. That's why I prefer PC Halo to XBox Halo even without the cooperative mode.
Anyway, I think the reason why Halo 2 in particular is being ignored isn't because it's a console FPS, but because it was already hyped up last year. Besides, even though Halo was decent, it was disappointing compared to Bungie's previous offerings. Oh, and there's also HL2 and Doom 3 grabbing the attention of FPS fans.
Rob
I thought there already was a Resident Evil 4. Capcom always confuses the hell out of me when it comes to sequels...
Rob
PSO had a complete single-player mode, much like the Diablo games. You didn't need the help of other geeks to play through it. Of course, the game was still online-focused, which made the story quality suffer somewhat.
Rob
Was just positively small and insignificant.
MTE. I even thought the announcement of PSU was bigger.
I was really hoping for another SEGA console
I wasn't; Sega's proven itself incapable of handling the hardware side of the industry. What I was expecting was an MMO version of one of Sega's non-Phantasy-Star franchises, like Sonic. I guess I was close.
Rob
I'd rather read the blubbering posts of how awesome the Ngage is than read more of your stick-up-your-ass bullshit.
Ah, but doesn't my stick match yours so well?
BTW, I'm not forcing you to read my bullshit.
Rob
Goddammit, why do I always say "The Shadows Within"?
Spirits. Spirits.
Since I have to make another post anyway, I might as well head off any further argument by explaining why I think cel-shading is ugly. The main problem is the effect that was publicized when FF: TSW came out--the more realistic something looks, the worse its flaws look in comparison. It's easy to overlook all sorts of flaws in a 2D cartoon because, well, it's 2D. When you make it 3D, all of those flaws you missed before become much more apparent. In effect, what looks fine in 2D can look really gross in 3D.
Rob