There is some doubt whether this conversation actually occurred. The anecdote was written by the Rev. Ethan Allen (1797-1879), who would have been between 4 and 12 years old when Jefferson made this statement (Jefferson was president from 1801 to 1809). It would be quite a feat for a child to remember or write this very detailed anecdote in his diary.
"our particular principles of religion are a subject of accountability to our god alone. I enquire after no man's and trouble none with mine; nor is it given to us in this life to know whether yours or mine, our friend's or our foe's, are exactly the right."
Thomas Jefferson to Miles King, September 26, 1814
At the present time it may not yet be practical to put a central AC-DC conversion and distribution system into most homes. In a few years, if flourescent tubes and LEDs replace large incandescent bulbs and solid state displays replace CRTs, it may be practical to provide central DC power to many rooms of a home. The current draw of most DC powered appliances is pretty low, meaning that most of the DC wiring wouldn't need to be heavy. Some entertainment equipment and computers may need heavy DC wiring or AC (hopefully not). The kitchen, laundry, HVAC, vacuum cleaner, and water heating equipment will probably still need AC power. Bathrooms outlets are becoming wall wart hells as more DC powered razors and toothbrushes are being used. The only bathroom appliances that may still need AC power are space heaters and hair maintenance appliances. Most bedrooms could be totally DC powered. Hallways may be a good place to provide AC outlets to power portable vacuum cleaners. Living rooms and family rooms need power primarily for lighting and entertainment equipment, much of which can be DC powered. The kitchen and laundry room may be two rooms that may not benefit from DC outlets as most kitchen and laundry appliances are power pigs. I do not know how many people would find DC powered refrigerators useful. HVAC will probably need AC power. If a non-electric source of heat is used for space heating, DC powered controls and DC powered pumps or fans would be an advantage during a commercial power failure if a backup DC power source is available.
Jefferson appears to have been greatly influenced by Unitarianism. One person who Jefferson greatly admired and looked to for religious guidance was Joseph Priestley, the founder of the first Unitarian church in America (and a rather famous chemist) who fled England for Pennsylvania in 1794 because he was persecuted for his heretical writings. During Jefferson's time, Unitarians were considered to be heretics, primarily because Unitarians do not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. Benjamin Frankin was also a friend of Priestley, they sailed together from England to Philadelphia and they started some of the first Unitarian churches in and around Philadelphia.
I cannot believe that Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, who were friends of a person who had to flee England because of his religious beliefs, could ever have meant for religion of any sort to be a part of the government of the United States. The problem is that the Christian Right in the US are using the existance of the word "God" in the Declaration of Independance to shoehorn Christianity into the US government. Jefferson and Franklin held Unitarian beliefs, which were considered to be heretical. John Adams was a Unitarian who held some very negative views concerning God and Christians (especially Roman Catholics). People holding Unitarian beliefs were being persecuted in England. How could these three men have meant that the government of the Unites States not be totally separated from religion?
I found some interesting quotations from John Adams (most were in letters to Jefferson):
"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world."
"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"
"Indeed, Mr. Jefferson, what could be invented to debase the ancient Christianism which Greeks, Romans, Hebrews and Christian factions, above all the Catholics, have not fraudulently imposed upon the public? Miracles after miracles have rolled down in torrents."
"Cabalistic Christianity, which is Catholic Christianity, and which has prevailed for 1,500 years, has received a mortal wound, of which the monster must finally die. Yet so strong is his constitution, that he may endure for centuries before he expires."
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
I came across a Jefferson quotation concerning god:
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
"I can never join Calvin in addressing his god. He was indeed an Atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Daemonism. If ever man worshipped a false god, he did."
"It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [the Apocalypse], and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must approve the homage of reason rather than of blind-folded fear. Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences.... If it end in a belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others it will procure for you."
It appears that Thomas Jefferson was both a theist and diest that respected the ethical system of Jesus Christ. Thomas Jefferson created his own version of the Bible from which he removed the religious dogma and other supernatural elements. It does not appear that Thomas Jefferson was a Christian or ever supported Christianity. It also appears that Thomas Jefferson was a staunch believer in a strict separation of church and state.
However don't give crap that immigrants must conform. I'm an immigrant and I am not giving up my culture in order to conform to some American McStandard. However I have good luck to be white and male and I can thus get a good job.
I would imagine that you can also speak English and have a decent education. I do not know that immigrants to the US were ever required to give up their culture in order to work in the US. Immigrants should be expected to learn about American customs, speak English, and learn how to drive in the US (if they drive); this is not giving up one's own culture.
Most likely you've never experienced true poverty so don't come judging here. I don't condone of the way they're expressing their dissatisfaction but I don't discount their feelings as frivolous and wrong.
From what I understand, the French government is providing them with housing and medical care and giving them welfare money -- this does not sound like true poverty to me. Just because their feelings are hurt does not in any way excuse the destruction, injuries, and possibly death that they are causing.
I believe that one of the biggest reasons that the Church of England doesn't jump on hare brained ideas such as "Intelligent Design" is because the Church of England is not a fundamentalist church. It seems that only fundamentalist christians are pushing the "Intelligent Design"/anti-evolution agenda. For some reason, the United States has developed a whole series of fundamentalist christian churches that believe that the christian bible must be interpreted literally AND that they must force everybody else to also be a fundamentalist christian. "Intelligent Design" and Kansas redefining Science to allow for the existance of the Easter Bunny and Unicorns are just new ways for American fundamentalist christians to try to circumvent the separation of church and state in order to brainwash others to be fundamentalist christians.
How many people go on a seven hour bus rides? The closest I ever got to a seven hour bus ride was when we had a freaky snow storm. A 20 minute scheduled bus ride turned into a TWO HOUR ordeal. At that time, I had a Walkman and maybe a half-dozen C-90 tapes, the potential limiting factor on that ride was battery life (and bladder capacity). It was sorta fun watching the bus sliding sideways and occasionally touching cars parked on a Snow Emergency Route. I find it funny to see people talk about portable player music capacity when not too long ago most people were carrying around cassette tape players.
They were close enough that at least one of the passengers claimed to see one of the pirates grin when he fired an RPG at the ship. The passenger was lucky that he watched the RPG being launched and lived to tell about it.
So I researched it, figured it out, wrote the ten-line shell script that would allow Linux to talk to the internet, and then emailed their tech support just to say: "Guess what - you DO support Linux!"
Guess what - they still DON'T support Linux! You just figured out how to configure Linux to start a PPP session. Most ISP's don't support any OS other than MS Windows, and most ISPs don't care what OS you are using. Erols (now RCN) didn't support Linux on it's dialup network but it used to have a section on it's webpage on how to configure Linux to start a PPP session using Erols' dialup. I know of one ISP who's helpdesk will send users the documentation and software needed to set up PPP on Solaris, FreeBSD, and some flavors of Linux; even though the ISP doesn't support anything other than MS Windows. Beyond some pages on a website or the ISP sending docs and software, you are on your own if the ISP doesn't support the OS that you are using.
I hope all the non-IE browsers are now 'shipping' by default with their own browser strings, not set to pretend to be IE...
I wish that browsers would ship so that the user agent would identify themselves only as being Standards Compliant. Web designers have only themselves to blame for non-IE browsers masquerading as IE. There have been a great many web designers that have configured their sites to REFUSE to serve non-IE browsers. There have also been web designers that have have set up their web sites to deliberately serve broken code to non-IE browsers (one famous example is MSN deliberately sending a broken stylesheet to Opera browsers in Feb of 2003).
I have NO sympathy for web designers that design their websites to accomodate specific browsers and then bitch about the differences between browsers. It really is as simple as web designers designing to STANDARDS set by recognised international standards groups, not to any specific browser. If browsers 1, 2, 3, or 4 are not standards compliant, then they would have an incentive to become standards compliant.
... the ability to import my old data, which has mostly been trapped in Microsoft formats.
Few MS Office documents are unreadable by Open Office. Most MS applications have options to save data in a format that is readable by most other software; such as comma delimited, ASCII text, or RTF.
The government of the United States has that situation covered, it has something called the "Patriot Act" which effectively outlaws any action that would inconvenience the US government, any corporation, or anybody who has given enough money to the proper people.
The customer (end user in this case) is paying for the fiber, copper & network boxen in the form of a monthly telephone bill. The telco has no claim whatsover on the CONTENT.
besides, creationists rarely blow up biosciences labs like animal rights extremists do
Unfortunately it's the creationists that blow up abortion clinics and kill abortion doctors.
Lucent has "Bell Labs", AT&T has "AT&T Lab
on
Ma Bell is Back
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· Score: 1
The name "Bell Labs" is still owned and used by Lucent. AT&T has "AT&T Labs".
Re:Ma Bell? Yo no entiendo - SHORT VERSION
on
Ma Bell is Back
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· Score: 0, Offtopic
Where are you that you have mostly free roads? Where I live, we have to pay taxes and fees at multiple levels (Federal, State, County, City) based on income, value of home, value of motor vehicles, number of motor vehicles, and amount of fuel purhased in order to pay for the roads that I drive on.
For one thing, Apple is not a convicted monopolist. For another, Apple is not trying to use it's market position to force anybody to do anything. If you don't like buying a closed system, then don't buy an iPod. For the record, I won't buy Apple products because of their closed nature, the only Apple product that I have ever purchased was an Apple//e.
So what if Apple has a monopoly on the Mac? Sun has a monopoly on Sparc servers and GMC has a monopoly on Cadillacs. Apple, Sun, and GMC can't use their market position to try to force anybody to use a Mac, Sparc, or Cadillac because people are free to use other computers or to use other cars.
If Apple produces a product that has a problem, such as the iPod Nano scratching problem, there are consumer laws in place that can be used to seek remedy. Also, why are people still buying iPod Nanos when it is pretty well known that the Nano's have a problem with the window scratching?
I do not know that it can be assumed that Apache is mostly run on Linux. Apache websites are running on several Unix and Unix-like OS's including Solaris, the various BSDs, and Linux.
Slashdot Mirror
There is some doubt whether this conversation actually occurred. The anecdote was written by the Rev. Ethan Allen (1797-1879), who would have been between 4 and 12 years old when Jefferson made this statement (Jefferson was president from 1801 to 1809). It would be quite a feat for a child to remember or write this very detailed anecdote in his diary.
"our particular principles of religion are a subject of accountability to our god alone. I enquire after no man's and trouble none with mine; nor is it given to us in this life to know whether yours or mine, our friend's or our foe's, are exactly the right."
Thomas Jefferson to Miles King, September 26, 1814
At the present time it may not yet be practical to put a central AC-DC conversion and distribution system into most homes. In a few years, if flourescent tubes and LEDs replace large incandescent bulbs and solid state displays replace CRTs, it may be practical to provide central DC power to many rooms of a home. The current draw of most DC powered appliances is pretty low, meaning that most of the DC wiring wouldn't need to be heavy. Some entertainment equipment and computers may need heavy DC wiring or AC (hopefully not). The kitchen, laundry, HVAC, vacuum cleaner, and water heating equipment will probably still need AC power. Bathrooms outlets are becoming wall wart hells as more DC powered razors and toothbrushes are being used. The only bathroom appliances that may still need AC power are space heaters and hair maintenance appliances. Most bedrooms could be totally DC powered. Hallways may be a good place to provide AC outlets to power portable vacuum cleaners. Living rooms and family rooms need power primarily for lighting and entertainment equipment, much of which can be DC powered. The kitchen and laundry room may be two rooms that may not benefit from DC outlets as most kitchen and laundry appliances are power pigs. I do not know how many people would find DC powered refrigerators useful. HVAC will probably need AC power. If a non-electric source of heat is used for space heating, DC powered controls and DC powered pumps or fans would be an advantage during a commercial power failure if a backup DC power source is available.
I understand the distinction you are making.
Jefferson appears to have been greatly influenced by Unitarianism. One person who Jefferson greatly admired and looked to for religious guidance was Joseph Priestley, the founder of the first Unitarian church in America (and a rather famous chemist) who fled England for Pennsylvania in 1794 because he was persecuted for his heretical writings. During Jefferson's time, Unitarians were considered to be heretics, primarily because Unitarians do not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. Benjamin Frankin was also a friend of Priestley, they sailed together from England to Philadelphia and they started some of the first Unitarian churches in and around Philadelphia.
I cannot believe that Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, who were friends of a person who had to flee England because of his religious beliefs, could ever have meant for religion of any sort to be a part of the government of the United States. The problem is that the Christian Right in the US are using the existance of the word "God" in the Declaration of Independance to shoehorn Christianity into the US government. Jefferson and Franklin held Unitarian beliefs, which were considered to be heretical. John Adams was a Unitarian who held some very negative views concerning God and Christians (especially Roman Catholics). People holding Unitarian beliefs were being persecuted in England. How could these three men have meant that the government of the Unites States not be totally separated from religion?
I found some interesting quotations from John Adams (most were in letters to Jefferson):
"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world."
"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"
"Indeed, Mr. Jefferson, what could be invented to debase the ancient Christianism which Greeks, Romans, Hebrews and Christian factions, above all the Catholics, have not fraudulently imposed upon the public? Miracles after miracles have rolled down in torrents."
"Cabalistic Christianity, which is Catholic Christianity, and which has prevailed for 1,500 years, has received a mortal wound, of which the monster must finally die. Yet so strong is his constitution, that he may endure for centuries before he expires."
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
I came across a Jefferson quotation concerning god:
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
Some quotations from Thomas Jefferson:
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
"I can never join Calvin in addressing his god. He was indeed an Atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Daemonism. If ever man worshipped a false god, he did."
"It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [the Apocalypse], and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must approve the homage of reason rather than of blind-folded fear. Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences.... If it end in a belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others it will procure for you."
It appears that Thomas Jefferson was both a theist and diest that respected the ethical system of Jesus Christ. Thomas Jefferson created his own version of the Bible from which he removed the religious dogma and other supernatural elements. It does not appear that Thomas Jefferson was a Christian or ever supported Christianity. It also appears that Thomas Jefferson was a staunch believer in a strict separation of church and state.
However don't give crap that immigrants must conform. I'm an immigrant and I am not giving up my culture in order to conform to some American McStandard. However I have good luck to be white and male and I can thus get a good job.
I would imagine that you can also speak English and have a decent education. I do not know that immigrants to the US were ever required to give up their culture in order to work in the US. Immigrants should be expected to learn about American customs, speak English, and learn how to drive in the US (if they drive); this is not giving up one's own culture.
Most likely you've never experienced true poverty so don't come judging here. I don't condone of the way they're expressing their dissatisfaction but I don't discount their feelings as frivolous and wrong.
From what I understand, the French government is providing them with housing and medical care and giving them welfare money -- this does not sound like true poverty to me. Just because their feelings are hurt does not in any way excuse the destruction, injuries, and possibly death that they are causing.
I believe that one of the biggest reasons that the Church of England doesn't jump on hare brained ideas such as "Intelligent Design" is because the Church of England is not a fundamentalist church. It seems that only fundamentalist christians are pushing the "Intelligent Design"/anti-evolution agenda. For some reason, the United States has developed a whole series of fundamentalist christian churches that believe that the christian bible must be interpreted literally AND that they must force everybody else to also be a fundamentalist christian. "Intelligent Design" and Kansas redefining Science to allow for the existance of the Easter Bunny and Unicorns are just new ways for American fundamentalist christians to try to circumvent the separation of church and state in order to brainwash others to be fundamentalist christians.
How many people go on a seven hour bus rides? The closest I ever got to a seven hour bus ride was when we had a freaky snow storm. A 20 minute scheduled bus ride turned into a TWO HOUR ordeal. At that time, I had a Walkman and maybe a half-dozen C-90 tapes, the potential limiting factor on that ride was battery life (and bladder capacity). It was sorta fun watching the bus sliding sideways and occasionally touching cars parked on a Snow Emergency Route. I find it funny to see people talk about portable player music capacity when not too long ago most people were carrying around cassette tape players.
There are probably better places to go on holiday than to Somalia. Somalia has no central government and the country is run by warlords. Google is your friend. You could also try http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2863.htm or http://www.lonelyplanet.com/worldguide/destination s/africa/somalia
They were close enough that at least one of the passengers claimed to see one of the pirates grin when he fired an RPG at the ship. The passenger was lucky that he watched the RPG being launched and lived to tell about it.
So I researched it, figured it out, wrote the ten-line shell script that would allow Linux to talk to the internet, and then emailed their tech support just to say: "Guess what - you DO support Linux!"
Guess what - they still DON'T support Linux! You just figured out how to configure Linux to start a PPP session. Most ISP's don't support any OS other than MS Windows, and most ISPs don't care what OS you are using. Erols (now RCN) didn't support Linux on it's dialup network but it used to have a section on it's webpage on how to configure Linux to start a PPP session using Erols' dialup. I know of one ISP who's helpdesk will send users the documentation and software needed to set up PPP on Solaris, FreeBSD, and some flavors of Linux; even though the ISP doesn't support anything other than MS Windows. Beyond some pages on a website or the ISP sending docs and software, you are on your own if the ISP doesn't support the OS that you are using.
Turn javascript off:
Tools | Options | Web Features | uncheck Enable JavaScript
It is also prudent to turn Java off if you are not needing it:
Tools | Options | Web Features | uncheck Enable Java
I hope all the non-IE browsers are now 'shipping' by default with their own browser strings, not set to pretend to be IE...
I wish that browsers would ship so that the user agent would identify themselves only as being Standards Compliant. Web designers have only themselves to blame for non-IE browsers masquerading as IE. There have been a great many web designers that have configured their sites to REFUSE to serve non-IE browsers. There have also been web designers that have have set up their web sites to deliberately serve broken code to non-IE browsers (one famous example is MSN deliberately sending a broken stylesheet to Opera browsers in Feb of 2003).
I have NO sympathy for web designers that design their websites to accomodate specific browsers and then bitch about the differences between browsers. It really is as simple as web designers designing to STANDARDS set by recognised international standards groups, not to any specific browser. If browsers 1, 2, 3, or 4 are not standards compliant, then they would have an incentive to become standards compliant.
... the ability to import my old data, which has mostly been trapped in Microsoft formats.
Few MS Office documents are unreadable by Open Office. Most MS applications have options to save data in a format that is readable by most other software; such as comma delimited, ASCII text, or RTF.
The government of the United States has that situation covered, it has something called the "Patriot Act" which effectively outlaws any action that would inconvenience the US government, any corporation, or anybody who has given enough money to the proper people.
Right, because nothing better than Linux at running servers will ever come along. By the way, what OS always has the best uptimes? Linux right...
Actually, I believe that the *BSD's tend to have the best uptimes, not Linux.
It looks like a WWII underwater mine with some of the pokey things missing.
Just another example of why I will not use DSL (or the telco for that matter) for broadband access.
The customer (end user in this case) is paying for the fiber, copper & network boxen in the form of a monthly telephone bill. The telco has no claim whatsover on the CONTENT.
Violence against abortion clinics is a big problem, see http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm
besides, creationists rarely blow up biosciences labs like animal rights extremists do
Unfortunately it's the creationists that blow up abortion clinics and kill abortion doctors.
The name "Bell Labs" is still owned and used by Lucent. AT&T has "AT&T Labs".
Where are you that you have mostly free roads? Where I live, we have to pay taxes and fees at multiple levels (Federal, State, County, City) based on income, value of home, value of motor vehicles, number of motor vehicles, and amount of fuel purhased in order to pay for the roads that I drive on.
For one thing, Apple is not a convicted monopolist. For another, Apple is not trying to use it's market position to force anybody to do anything. If you don't like buying a closed system, then don't buy an iPod. For the record, I won't buy Apple products because of their closed nature, the only Apple product that I have ever purchased was an Apple //e.
So what if Apple has a monopoly on the Mac? Sun has a monopoly on Sparc servers and GMC has a monopoly on Cadillacs. Apple, Sun, and GMC can't use their market position to try to force anybody to use a Mac, Sparc, or Cadillac because people are free to use other computers or to use other cars.
If Apple produces a product that has a problem, such as the iPod Nano scratching problem, there are consumer laws in place that can be used to seek remedy. Also, why are people still buying iPod Nanos when it is pretty well known that the Nano's have a problem with the window scratching?
assuming Apache is mostly run on Linux, right?
I do not know that it can be assumed that Apache is mostly run on Linux. Apache websites are running on several Unix and Unix-like OS's including Solaris, the various BSDs, and Linux.