I've been touch typing since I was 14, this isn't a pissing contest, I'm sure there are some single digits here who were typing in the womb, my point being, for a very long time I've been able to fully use a keyboard without looking, right now I'm looking at my roof.
If its easy to do that, why the hell couldnt I learn to use an extra function or two on my mouse? That I'd assigned myself? If I kept "bumping it" at X and Y location on the mouse, fine, I could move it somewhere ELSE, to where my particular right hand DID NOT hit all time!
This thing sounds fantastic! I use a Magic Mouse as it is, I love the design, I love the "multi touch" abilities, I just wish it were "higher", its very slim.
I'm 1.95M tall, with large hands, not Apples fault, big deal. I'm not going to cry about their mice being "too small"
Even if all this did were change the colour of the mouse, or allow its battery life to be displayed, or the current fan speeds of your computer or or or...it sounds cool. It would really cost bugger all to add. If we dont like it, fine! I think the Droid X is the ugliest POS phone I've ever seen, I dont complain about "typical Android ugliness", I vote with my Paypal account (not really using a wallet for online purchases:-) ) and dont buy one!
I like the Magic Mouse, if it had a display built into the top, touch sensitive area, I could well see myself buying the new one. I'm sure it could do a lot of amazing things, and if it doesnt? Then I wont buy one.
It really is rather silly to be arguing about our phones like this you know!
Times change, "iPhone" is correct, "Iphone" is not, you'd know that if you had a modern smartphone, with an up-to-date autocorrect function (ie iOS):-) JK
Why would I want a Powerpoint slideshow sent to me about "what you can and cant run on there"? Why not a simple website? A video? A podcast?
For what its worth, not only can iOS easily run Powerpoint slideshows, you can also do it over Bluetooth...if you so wanted to. There are many Bluetooth Apps for external connections, P2P etc...I've tried one or two before, never used them. I could if I wanted to.
Hidden the network? You can specify an SSID for "hidden" networks by default, you knew that right? Likewise, there are "sniffing tools", I havnt used them, but they are there. This is without Jailbreaking too, if we include that, then there is nothing you cant do on a JB iOS device compared to a "flashed", JB Android device.
If this means so much to you, I wish you could be right here, to try out my iPhone compared to your Droid.
Ultimately, I do not personally want to use Android, I like iOS. If you'd like to use Android, thats cool, its not like you've chosen to use bloody Windows Phone 7 or something...why would anyone else care?
There are strengths and weaknesses to both, iOS is INFINITELY nicer looking, be honest, while Android often has "more functions". I havnt yet found one that I'd yearn for, perhaps creating a "personal hotspot" to share a 3G connection ('spose you have me there, "HA! Some Android handsets have 4G!":-) ), thats apparently coming in the next update.
Put an iPhone 4 next to the top end Android handsets, and compare. For one, its true that no Android handset I've seen is as functionally beautiful as the iPhone, and after using an Original iPhone, and now an iPhone 4, I really wouldnt put up with some plastic piece of shit in my pocket all day long. Its not good enough! Not wanting to waste a thousand dollars on a piece of shit is *NOT* "ohhhh, you only buy because of marketing and image..."
In terms of how an Operating System works, perhaps thats personal choice, some like X, some like Y.
I've tried the Samsung Galaxy S (European version I think, here in New Zealand), and have read reviews of the other high end Android devices since before Android were out. I have friends with EVO's , Droids, Droid X's etc, and I wouldnt pick any of them to replace my iPhone.
If you really like the idea of a >3.5 inch screen, or hot spot abilities (about to come in the new iOS update?), then Android really could be for you.
I would personally put the iPhone 4 far ahead of other handsets out now, and predicted to be out soon, but whatever, its a personal thing.
It'll be interesting to see what happens when the iPhone is available on ALL US carriers. I do think that made a huge difference for my American friends, not living like the rest of the world, where we can swap the SIM out, I have three networks available to me, nationwide, most countries are the same.
hi smi.james.th, I think its almost universal that things work this way, its just in America, and perhaps less developed nations that its different.
I mean, I have three carriers available, and they all have NATIONAL coverage, no matter where you are. But, in the USA, with my iPhone "I'd be stuck on AT&T", which is apparently the worlds worst network! I wouldnt even be able to make a single call, and yet get charged a hundred bucks a month, instead of my current, roughly 10 USD, based on my use!
Text messages are "cheap", my whole country uses them, all ages txt into polls etc. About 10 NZD (say 6 USD) for 500+, perhaps as many as 2000 for that price, depending on carrier. On my prepaid plan, they are 20 cents each, about 10 US cents say, of course we only pay to SEND a txt...
Txts are never "cheap", but really, 6 dollars a month for effectively unlimited txts isnt "horrible", even if the actual data used should cost 5 cents, ha!
Funny you mention the nearly 1K USD price, ha, my iPhone 4 cost me that here in New Zealand, I own it outright, which would any SANE person rather have, some bulky hunk of crap Sat phone, that talks back to Satellites, or, the iPhone 4, which can LISTEN to Satellites via GPS, oh, as well as having that marvellous build quality, thin, touch screen with INSANELY GREAT resolution, dual cameras, App Store...
You're quite right, surely the US has the worst communications tech in the developed world?
I bought my first, Original iPhone (not sold in New Zealand) Jailbroken, for about 600 USD in full. I ran it on prepay, since I rarely use my phones for calls and txt messages, it would cost me....5-15 dollars a month New Zealand, lets say 10 US a month.
My iPhone 4, bought here was just under 1000 USD, it is mine, I own it. Like basically all iPhones around the world, as in outside the USA, it runs on any GSM network, "unlocked", it tethers, any bloody thing I want, and again, still costs me about 10 US a month in charges, mostly 3G data now, which I buy in 50MB segments, about 4 USD for 50MB. Damn expensive compared to home internet, but I want to help our third, new small Carrier out, against the Telecom NZ/Vodafone NZ duopoly.
Voda are the "official launch carrier" in NZ, I bought my iPhone 4 from Apple, it took FOUR WEEKS to get here on launch shipping, now they are overnight delivery I believe. Vodafone wanted me to buy one on a two year contract, FRIG THAT! I waited, and picked up a 2 Degrees Micro Sim from a neighbourhood electronics chain.... only the iPad and iPhone 4 used it, NEITHER were out in NZ at the time (!), but they were EARLY for demand. Imagine that, an upstart company that really bends over backwards to help get new customers!
If I didnt want to help out 2 Degrees, I can flick the SIM out, throw it in the trash, and throw in a new one. BOOM.
This is how shit is MEANT to work, its Twenty Ten forgodsake!
The more I hear about the US situation, the more pity I have for my US friends.
and Russian airpower is falling apart due to corruption and lack of maintenance and small serviceable numbers of aircraft).
We could say the same about another "super"power where people are being kicked out of their homes into the street, and where a useless "healthcare" bill has FINALLY been passed, declared "Kommunizt!" and resulted in a Right Wing Riot!
The fact is, the "other teams" hardware beat the crap out of "our boys", it must be admitted. Talk about "shock and awe", being impressive is the whole point of "top of the line fighter jets". I used the Australian airshow example because its close to NZ, where I live, and I remember it, again, too scared to even compete! Mother Russia there gave Uncle a spanking!
Really, the answer with all these Games of War is not to play in the first place.
I'm glad you mention the Su-27, but lets make it clear, the Russians basically invented these beautiful manoeuvres, they really knocked the US back on their asses at the time these were shown.
I love this story from the Australian International Air Show, for 1995:
"The 1995 Avalon airshow was held on March 21-26.
The show was largely stolen by the visiting Russian contingent of Anatoly Kvochur, his specially modified SU-27P Flanker and Il-76 tanker aircraft. Aerial inflight refueling was displayed as well as Kvochur's world famous flying routine with the Flanker which involved the "Cobra", knife edge and extremely low level passes. The final display on the Sunday show saw the Flanker cruise down the Avalon runway at approximately 15 feet AGL.
The RAAF and USAF were reluctant to compete with the Flanker and there was no solo F/A-18 Hornet aerobatic display this year. The USAF flew the F-16 Falcon with external drop tanks fitted which they said limited the aircraft to a "3g max" display. Kvochur won the award for best flying display this year."
Missiles huh? Say, were you around in the Vietnam days? "Oh, we dont need "dogfighting" anymore! Just take out those worthless guns, give 'em missiles that cost a hundred times more!"
Perhaps the point could be made that NO military is "needed", is it better to go massively in debt, trying to be "feared", yet unable to catch "the single bad guy" after invading half a dozen countries, or would we rather spend basically zero on military, and be loved around the world?
I'm an Apple fan, I'd have to say that of late, where are all these supposed "rabid Apple fans"? I can certainly understand when Apple was, as we dont say in New Zealand, down the shitter, but after absolutely dominating competition, who feels the need to kreech on about Apple now?
By far, the biggest whiners online are those who spend all day going on about Open Source this, shitty Nokia OS that, and the Android crowd. I dont hold it against them, but still we complain of "Apple fanboys", when I think they've been extinct for at least a half decade!:-)
Now, onto this "flyby", what if these people had access to a plane, and were going to fly it SOMEWHERE, they heard of an interesting, GIANT building, and so decided to make their normal flight OVER THIS BUILDING, rather than fly over a few less interesting buildings?
I've recently gotten interested in Geocaching, if I were in a new area with an interesting cache about, I'd go and find that one, rather than revisiting boring ones in my own area.
"Of course we are animals but you are really the one making a distinction between the human animal and the rest of the animal kingdom."
I see other animals as loving their lives as much as I do mine, as having the same basic right *not* to be regarded as a "thing", as our "property". I am not making the distinction here that some Animals are "more equal" than others.
I see the mention of what other Nonhumans do to each other again. We wouldnt use other species as our "moral guide" for any other issue, would we? ie "but Mum, the Monkeys at the zoo fling their own poop at people..." or "but X practice incest, cmon! We're also animals you know!..."
Why would we use "other animals hurt and kill each other" as our excuse? When we can most certainly choose either way, not having any need for harming others.
I like the extreme example too! Cannibalism after being stranded on a mountain range! Sorry, out of the 7 Billion people in the world, roughly how often does that happen? Oh yeah, about once or twice!:-) Isnt it normally Vegans who are accused of being "irrational" or "overly emotive"?
The fact remains that you and I are *not* stranded somewhere, left to kill each other, to then die of starvation, and loneliness, after killing the other. We live in New Zealand, and I believe Ireland? We can be as easily Vegan as not. I would argue that its cheaper, more efficient, more beautiful (aesthetically no guts, eyeballs, fur, teeth, shit, sex organs to get rid of) and of course the *least* other animals deserve. If you are indeed Irish, please visit Vegan Ireland,
I, like many outside of a few countries am against "the death penalty". I dont agree with "taking" their organs. Have you heard the rumoured "political dissidents" who are said to be executed in China, their organs sold on the "black market" to wealthy individuals elsewhere? I can well understand donating blood, a kidney, my other organs after my death. Being killed for a crime, or a SUPPOSED CRIME in this case, to be stripped of your life, and your organs is heinous.
I can fully understand death being "quick", and yes, once we are gone, I am sure there is absolutely *nothing*, that we may as well be asleep for the rest of eternity, without dreams.
We most certainly would not use such an excuse to do with other humans, "oh yeah, well I killed her sure, because I wanted to eat her, and I killed him because I wanted his head on my wall, but cmon now! I killed them "humanely", with a blow to the head, then cut through their throats with my knife....they bled to death QUICKLY!", right?:-)
I truly believe myself as seeing Humans and Nonhuman Animals as being similar, in the same ethical group, with no imagined "division" for our convenience. Think of countries at war, who see the enemy as "different", why? BECAUSE THEY'RE DIFFERENT! Why are we killing them? BECAUSE THEY'RE DIFFERENT! Who decided they were different? WE KNOW THEY'RE DIFFERENT!:-)
I'm sorry to hear about your personal health. I dont know about yourself, and I wouldnt like to talk about your personal health, as thats personal, but surely we have both noticed the increases in "diseases of the affluent"?
Many of those, if not all are related to "nonVeganism". There will *always* be genetic problems with our hearts etc, but surely the majority are based on lifestyle? Again, please dont assume I'm meaning you personally, I'm talking about generally, in our own countries. The links are not controversial, just as Smoking is seen as linked directly to Cancer, people get Cancer without smoking, but its more common to be a Smoker, who happens to get Cancer, and related pro
Hi blackest K!
Sorry for the delay in answering your comment.
I'd first like to state again that *we* are also animals, isnt it interesting how upset some people get over this simple, evolutionary fact? A recent debate I heard mentioned this, of how we like to see ourselves as Gods above all other live forms here, and possibly any others we discover elsewhere, no doubt if we do colonise other planets, find other animals smaller than us, we'll "farm" and kill them too! Oh, but if we find "more Godlike" animals, capable of killing us, then we'll kreech on about how unfair it is!
I certainly know the current casual use of the term "animal", meaning nonhuman animals, and people to mean "above other animals", we can leave it now.
I certainly dont like to think of them as "your Chickens", they are my friends, just as if I might have a flatmate. They live in my backyard, and I close the door to their coop each night, and open it in the morning for them. This is to protect them from Cats. They put themselves "to bed" when they feel like it, they feed for themselves etc. They easily care for one another without my help, they are not dependent on me, although there is a great chance they would soon be killed by Cats at night, without the door closed for them. Perhaps they could fend off Cats in the night, there are four of them, probably one Cat, I'm not sure, they cannot see very well at all in the dark.
I dont think we should be "owning" other animals in the first place, to assign ourselves as their "lords", that they are property. Think of Farm animals, certainly, we "tag" their ears with ID numbers, and now increasingly RFID tags. I'm talking about in New Zealand by the way, where I live, I know quite a lot about other parts of the worlds through books, documentaries, podcasts, websites etc, but talking with you, I'd like to stick to the areas I've been and seen myself.
I dont believe we can judge how we "care" for animals, when we are treating them as things, as our property. I dont think I have any more right to kill one of the Chickens that I love than any of my other, human Friends.
Blackest K, could I ask you please, do you think a Hen loves her life any more or less than you or I would? I would most certainly agree that other animals love being alive as much as you or I. I dont think we could possibly judge either "more" or "less", how would we do such?
"A cycle of life" meaning that we kill other animals on our whim? That we see them as our belongings? Who initiated such a "cycle"? We did. When White men "bought" Black men, that too was such a "cycle of life", "this is the way shit goes, and always will".
Quotes on Slavery is quite useful for this discussion, I rather like this pro slavery quote:
"[The servants] have all behaved extremely well, indeed I cannot utter the least complaint of them, they are deeply interested and very sympathizing with us all. They often speak to me about the war and there was great rejoicing in the kitchen at the news of our recent glorious victory in Virginia [Battle of Bull Run]. What would those miserable abolitionists say to such manifestations of devotion and affection on the part of the poor maltreated slave, whose heart, according to them, is only the abode of hatred and revenge against their master—They know nothing of the bond that unites the master and servant[,] of its tenderness and care on the one side, and its pride[,] fidelity and attachment on the other.
~ Louisa Quitman Lovell (July 1861)"
We find such talk abhorrent today, yet was most certainly The Done Thing during its time in that part of the world. Societal norms change, however, I dont believe fundamental rights of others do.
mattack2, this is another thing I find odd when others argue with Vegans, of talking about "KILLING PLANTS!" "HA! YOU'RE A MURDERER! PLANTS THINK YOU'RE HITLER!", this talk is very strange indeed!
I'm not Vegan to try and judge others, any more than how I dont "not steal" to feel better about myself, to feel "better" than those who DO steal.
On this New Zealand news story, about "boiling Lobsters to death" (we call them "crayfish"), it was brought up, "ha, those craaaaaazy Vegans who think we shouldnt treat others as things, they think its wrong to hurt celery...." which got a lame snort of a laugh in response. "now, we put the knife through ITS central nerve cluster"....lets be honest here, a knife through the animals brain. I argue that its "not humane", whatever we deem "humane" to mean.
Vegans most certainly *do* eat plants mattack2. It certainly is *absurd*, using our word of the day, to argue that mowing a lawn is the same as grinding up day old male chicks. Plants are *not* sentient.
"Letting them die when X could save them..."
Lets be clear, there is no evidence that "killing this one nonhuman animal will help this one human animal". "Animal" Experimentation is fundamentally flawed, when our bodies are so obviously different. Really, should we not be killing other humans instead? Because to do otherwise is "letting people die (when blood and guts from humans could save them)"
We wouldnt say that, right? Because to do so, to harm another human is unethical. We recognise other Humans have a right to live. We should offer respect to all animals. It does not mean we need to be giving Dogs drivers licenses, it simply means not treating others as "property", as "things".
I'm currently listening to the most recent Intelligence Squared debate about killing others, its focused on Vegetarianism, rather than on Veganism like it should be.
The mention of absurd arguments are brought up during the first speakers opening:
Is it right to kill another human to save someone you love (in terms of another presenting no threat, ie, not someone with a gun shooting at you and your loved one)? Is it right to kill one person to save two?
I wouldnt "have" anyone die, human or nonhuman. I certainly wouldnt kill one person to save one other, or two others. Do you think to act as such would be ethical?
All animal use is equal, why, or perhaps better, how would we rank evils?
Its as easy to be Vegan as not, and its the least other animals deserve.
If you are further interested, might I suggest this recent post on my blog, in regards to speaking out for respect towards other animals. I mention both The Animals Film , and Earthlings, while I never normally bring them up, I dont believe actual footage helps initially, its important we actually *know* what we are doing to others. You mentioned the awful "experiments" and "testing" we force on other animals:
I find it unacceptable to "use", lets be clear, to *kill* others like this, just as I would find it unacceptable to kill another human being in this manner. I am all for organ donation, after I am dead for example, I am not for being killed for my organs:-)
The issue is actually rather black and white, just as we cannot be a "little bit pregnant", especially as a guy, we either kill others for our uses, or we do not. Throughout time, our societies change, for example, think of human slavery in many developed nations, and how its still having repercussions to this day.
I'm a 23 year old New Zealander, in 1981, years before my birth, was "The Tour". South Africas team visited my country for a tour. This was hotly protested, its a defining moment in my nations history.
A sporting boycott was initiated against South Africa, because of Apartheid. Among the more rural areas, there was "keep politics out of sport", said by our centre Right party to gain approval from those most likely to enjoy the sport, those likely to vote centre Right, against standing up for human rights overseas. Many of our own native people, the Maori were vehemently against the racism, having been prejudiced here.
Early South African tours ran into trouble, with White South Africans not wanting to play a game of sport with "brown" people. We stood up over that, with "No Maoris, No Tour" slogans. Well, now we further refine that, no "Maori", being no plural S in the Maori language, we have further progressed. Times change.
Issues of "welfare" do not matter. All farmed animals live horrible lives, which end in them being killed, "Dairy" cows, Chickens for Eggs, animals such as Sheep from whom we take their Wool, and kill them... they all die the same horrible way.
I am sorry you are diabetic, I am glad you personally are involved in tests. I have family member who were in more dire situations who also were involved in trials. Thank you for helping others. I myself have given blood many times, I'm not sure how much, we dont have "pints" here in the Metric world:-) Although, for tradition, older men order "a pint" of beer.
I think we can agree there is a hell of a difference between those forced into experiments, human and nonhuman equally, and those who volunteer. Nonhumans appreciate and deserve their lives as much as you or I do. Certainly, I love Falafel, but not as much as my Rooster friend:-) http://bit.ly/roosterfalafel
I suppose we could liken the "farming" of animals for xenotransplantation to if we were to do as such to other, "lower classes" of humans, "but they're going to die in poverty any way". We wouldnt argue "but they had a great life living in sterile concrete" because we see *all* human life as valuable, where as currently nonhumans are seen as "lesser", as our "things". An interesting moral question is of a doctor treating a young, healthy patient for a broken bone, when there are several dying patients, who may need a new heart, a new kidney, a new liver etc. Would it be moral to kill the one healthy man, who broke his arm, to save the many? We would never feel this way, surely?
I hope you can respect me for being consistent in that I believe its wrong to hurt others, to class them as our property, to regard them as "things". I wouldnt lie to you because of personal circumstances re diabetes.
I'm from Invercargill, New Zealand. Right now, I'm about... 20KM or so from the "Living Cell Technologies facility", or so we can suppose, the location is "top secret".
Its a very interesting topic, I am Vegan, I see it as absolutely *horrid* that we would even think of harming other animals, we would not do this to Human animals...or would we?
As a local of the area, I can speak more in detail of what goes on, of the coverage at a local, and national level. Its basically treated as the second coming of jesus, that his will be a miracle cure, and *MOST IMPORTANTLY*, that our Mayor claims all the credit, for all the money that this WILL (because its going to succeed dammit) bring to the area.
For more on their story, of being left on a bunch of rocks just before Antartica for Whalers to kill, of being designated "an introduced species", who MUST be killed by our Department of "Conservation", apart from a few kept alive as a novelty, please visit my blog post. I include an Australian news video which shows a tour of the awful facility. To my knowledge, this sort of coverage has never occurred in my area, where this is happening, perhaps for fear of public backlash. I also include a letter I wrote to my local newspaper, which was answered by LCT:
hi LanMan04,
People I love in my family have died horrid, slow deaths from cancer, men and women. It takes years to fully claim them, they've lost their breasts, their testicles, their will to live. The latest uncle to die was a living skeleton when he passed on. He really looked like that stereotypical "starving refuge". He couldnt eat towards the end, he couldnt walk, he could just sit...and hope for death.
I think its rather clear that "testing" and "experimenting" on nonhuman animals has not brought about change. We are rather different, as you can tell!:-) Really, if its sooooo important, and if "it would instantly save our loved ones who are dying right now of X", we should be rounding up orphans, right? "cause they're gonna die anyway..."?
I dont know of anyone who would publicly state that. I will fully stand firm and say I'm against "experimenting" on human animals, just as I am against nonhuman animals.
Neither are right, both are awful, rights violations. You're life is your own, and it is precious.
I know my relatives felt that way. But in the end, they wanted to die, rather than keep suffering. Near the end, I'd think both "experimented" on nonhumans, and my cancer suffering relatives lived rather similar lives. Both were awful, perhaps the humans were natural, they were born/caught their problem, for the nonhumans, its fair to assume we deliberately *caused* their problem.
There are enough Nonhumans out there who need our help now, without us harming more.
I would never force someone to watch The Animals Film, or Earthlings, however, for those willing, TAF has very indepth footage of "animal testing". Near the end, a "two headed dog" is created, by sewing one small dogs head, and forelimbs atop a larger dog. Who knows, perhaps by the same laboratory as this "jumping Monkey".
"TOKYO - Japanese researchers said Wednesday they had used stem cells to restore partial mobility in a small monkey that had been paralysed from the neck down by a spinal injury."
Oh, how nice, they wandered about Japanese rainforests looking for injured Monkeys to help! Awwwww:-)
Most likely, they caused the injury deliberately, perhaps by cutting his or her spine, or in some other fashion. "Look, we kinda fixed it this time" is not a cause for celebration.
We shouldnt be "experimenting" on Nonhuman Animals period.
Its as easy to be Vegan as not, and its the least we can do for others. We kill 56 Billion land animals each year, Fish are not even counted individually, UN FAO statistics from 2007 http://www.bit.ly/56billion , we can do far more help for other animals by *not* treating them as our property, as things, than no doubt deliberately paralysing imported Monkeys, and then "experimenting" to "fix" them.
Once more, please let us all know where you live, where you are literally OWNED by your "employer"! We are of course animals too, can you agree with me there? We set up an artificial distinction, "humans" and "animals", that we are "above" them, or above "IT" perhaps more accurately. Its rather interesting that we chose that position for ourselves, eh? Perhaps Cats think they are above us?;-)
Physics, "fundamental laws" are not being challenged here, we are talking about unnecessary suffering and death. Are we for unnecessary suffering and death? Why do we kill the animals which we do? Do we *need* to, as a "fundamental principle of physics", or do we CHOOSE to do so?
In New Zealand, theres another huge OUTRAGE (!!!) over Seals being hurt, why have we built certain animals up onto a pedestal? Where they reach a level of demi-gods? Where some people will say things like "animals are better than us, Human beings are a virus on this planet...animals are innocent", once more with that artificial distinction between "humans" and "animals", but in the nonhumans favour this time!
Whales, Dolphins, Seals...hmm, lots of "large marine animals", Cats and Dogs, we somehow have made these animals PERFECT, AMAZING, WONDERFUL, SPECIAL. What distinguishes them in any way from the Chickens I look after? Why do we love some animals, genuinely respect their right to be free, I'd assume *MOST* people in my society would be against having Whales performing etc, you can thank Free Willy for that!
Animals live in the wild just fine Urkki, they most certainly do not need us to cage them, to own them, to control them, to treat them as "ours".
I used Chickens as my example because 1) they make up the VAST majority of the 56 Billion land animals killed each year (2007 UN FAO figures PDF http://bit.ly/56billion ), and 2) because I look after a family of Chickens. I think they are a splendid example for those reasons, they are the most killed, and the nonhumans I myself am most familiar with.
I just founded the Invercargill Vegan Society, promoting Veganism in my small, rural city. I've had my Chicken Friends pose around my business cards etc;-)
We have created an artificial justification, a "circle of life". Yes, animals (and we are animals too of course) are born, live, die. We should not harm or kill others, where possible. There will always be deaths, of "natural causes", "act of god", and "accidental" etc. These are unavoidable.
Other animals do many things that you and I would find abhorrent, and morally wrong. We do not justify those activities with "but...Animals do it to each other!...", because they run afoul of our Societal Norms, what we've grown up with, what we've grown up doing to others.
I wouldnt campaign for "humane child molestation", there is no such thing. I wouldnt spend millions of dollars, volunteers time, and perhaps worst, effort to influence consumers opinion against a subset of killing and using others. IE, "factory farming".
Such activity is common from Animal Welfare groups, such as New Zealands SAFE, who are over the moon about a "sow crate ban", for Mother Pigs. They've spent millions on this, and have really made actual progress difficult for those promoting respect for Animals right not to be "things", for us to kill how we wish, for the most trivial of reasons, "coz we like it".
This featured as episode 39 of my show, where I was joined by guests to talk about this declared "VICTORY!!!" :
http://coexistingwithnonhumanani
Hi gox, you were the one to mention Welfare and Rights first:-)
I'd find it hard to describe differences in LEVELS of "cruelty", but yes, I think Professor Gary Francione made a good argument for American sportsman Michael Vick, his Dogs who were forced to fight may well have had "better lives" than the animals we kill for "Hotdogs" etc while watching him play. His article really was *fantastic*:
Slashdot Mirror
I've been touch typing since I was 14, this isn't a pissing contest, I'm sure there are some single digits here who were typing in the womb, my point being, for a very long time I've been able to fully use a keyboard without looking, right now I'm looking at my roof.
:-) ) and dont buy one!
If its easy to do that, why the hell couldnt I learn to use an extra function or two on my mouse? That I'd assigned myself? If I kept "bumping it" at X and Y location on the mouse, fine, I could move it somewhere ELSE, to where my particular right hand DID NOT hit all time!
This thing sounds fantastic! I use a Magic Mouse as it is, I love the design, I love the "multi touch" abilities, I just wish it were "higher", its very slim.
I'm 1.95M tall, with large hands, not Apples fault, big deal. I'm not going to cry about their mice being "too small"
Even if all this did were change the colour of the mouse, or allow its battery life to be displayed, or the current fan speeds of your computer or or or...it sounds cool. It would really cost bugger all to add. If we dont like it, fine! I think the Droid X is the ugliest POS phone I've ever seen, I dont complain about "typical Android ugliness", I vote with my Paypal account (not really using a wallet for online purchases
I like the Magic Mouse, if it had a display built into the top, touch sensitive area, I could well see myself buying the new one. I'm sure it could do a lot of amazing things, and if it doesnt? Then I wont buy one.
Yer, Quit Yer Bitchin'!
Back In My Day, we only got given PAPER protection covers!
It really is rather silly to be arguing about our phones like this you know!
:-) JK
:-) ), thats apparently coming in the next update.
Times change, "iPhone" is correct, "Iphone" is not, you'd know that if you had a modern smartphone, with an up-to-date autocorrect function (ie iOS)
Why would I want a Powerpoint slideshow sent to me about "what you can and cant run on there"? Why not a simple website? A video? A podcast?
For what its worth, not only can iOS easily run Powerpoint slideshows, you can also do it over Bluetooth...if you so wanted to. There are many Bluetooth Apps for external connections, P2P etc...I've tried one or two before, never used them. I could if I wanted to.
Hidden the network? You can specify an SSID for "hidden" networks by default, you knew that right? Likewise, there are "sniffing tools", I havnt used them, but they are there. This is without Jailbreaking too, if we include that, then there is nothing you cant do on a JB iOS device compared to a "flashed", JB Android device.
If this means so much to you, I wish you could be right here, to try out my iPhone compared to your Droid.
Ultimately, I do not personally want to use Android, I like iOS. If you'd like to use Android, thats cool, its not like you've chosen to use bloody Windows Phone 7 or something...why would anyone else care?
There are strengths and weaknesses to both, iOS is INFINITELY nicer looking, be honest, while Android often has "more functions". I havnt yet found one that I'd yearn for, perhaps creating a "personal hotspot" to share a 3G connection ('spose you have me there, "HA! Some Android handsets have 4G!"
Enjoy your Droid, I'll enjoy my iPhone.
"Buying an [i]Phone"
There, fixed that for you! :-)
Its silly to fight over who has the better phone, when its obvious, *I* do! JK
What do you mean about "Apple" owning my phone? If you're meaning in regards to some kind of App killswitch...thats also in Android you know...
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/06/google-flips-remote-kill-switch-on-android-apps/
If you really want to be a nut job about Open Source, Nokia seem to be the only ("mainstream") way to go.
I dont think you can compare an original Droid to an iPhone 4. Droid X to iPhone 4 would be somewhat more realistic.
What are you on about?
Put an iPhone 4 next to the top end Android handsets, and compare. For one, its true that no Android handset I've seen is as functionally beautiful as the iPhone, and after using an Original iPhone, and now an iPhone 4, I really wouldnt put up with some plastic piece of shit in my pocket all day long. Its not good enough! Not wanting to waste a thousand dollars on a piece of shit is *NOT* "ohhhh, you only buy because of marketing and image..."
In terms of how an Operating System works, perhaps thats personal choice, some like X, some like Y.
I've tried the Samsung Galaxy S (European version I think, here in New Zealand), and have read reviews of the other high end Android devices since before Android were out. I have friends with EVO's , Droids, Droid X's etc, and I wouldnt pick any of them to replace my iPhone.
If you really like the idea of a >3.5 inch screen, or hot spot abilities (about to come in the new iOS update?), then Android really could be for you.
I would personally put the iPhone 4 far ahead of other handsets out now, and predicted to be out soon, but whatever, its a personal thing.
It'll be interesting to see what happens when the iPhone is available on ALL US carriers. I do think that made a huge difference for my American friends, not living like the rest of the world, where we can swap the SIM out, I have three networks available to me, nationwide, most countries are the same.
hi smi.james.th, I think its almost universal that things work this way, its just in America, and perhaps less developed nations that its different.
I mean, I have three carriers available, and they all have NATIONAL coverage, no matter where you are. But, in the USA, with my iPhone "I'd be stuck on AT&T", which is apparently the worlds worst network! I wouldnt even be able to make a single call, and yet get charged a hundred bucks a month, instead of my current, roughly 10 USD, based on my use!
Text messages are "cheap", my whole country uses them, all ages txt into polls etc. About 10 NZD (say 6 USD) for 500+, perhaps as many as 2000 for that price, depending on carrier. On my prepaid plan, they are 20 cents each, about 10 US cents say, of course we only pay to SEND a txt...
Txts are never "cheap", but really, 6 dollars a month for effectively unlimited txts isnt "horrible", even if the actual data used should cost 5 cents, ha!
Funny you mention the nearly 1K USD price, ha, my iPhone 4 cost me that here in New Zealand, I own it outright, which would any SANE person rather have, some bulky hunk of crap Sat phone, that talks back to Satellites, or, the iPhone 4, which can LISTEN to Satellites via GPS, oh, as well as having that marvellous build quality, thin, touch screen with INSANELY GREAT resolution, dual cameras, App Store...
Nice one Motorola!
You're quite right, surely the US has the worst communications tech in the developed world?
I bought my first, Original iPhone (not sold in New Zealand) Jailbroken, for about 600 USD in full. I ran it on prepay, since I rarely use my phones for calls and txt messages, it would cost me....5-15 dollars a month New Zealand, lets say 10 US a month.
My iPhone 4, bought here was just under 1000 USD, it is mine, I own it. Like basically all iPhones around the world, as in outside the USA, it runs on any GSM network, "unlocked", it tethers, any bloody thing I want, and again, still costs me about 10 US a month in charges, mostly 3G data now, which I buy in 50MB segments, about 4 USD for 50MB. Damn expensive compared to home internet, but I want to help our third, new small Carrier out, against the Telecom NZ/Vodafone NZ duopoly.
Voda are the "official launch carrier" in NZ, I bought my iPhone 4 from Apple, it took FOUR WEEKS to get here on launch shipping, now they are overnight delivery I believe. Vodafone wanted me to buy one on a two year contract, FRIG THAT! I waited, and picked up a 2 Degrees Micro Sim from a neighbourhood electronics chain.... only the iPad and iPhone 4 used it, NEITHER were out in NZ at the time (!), but they were EARLY for demand. Imagine that, an upstart company that really bends over backwards to help get new customers!
If I didnt want to help out 2 Degrees, I can flick the SIM out, throw it in the trash, and throw in a new one. BOOM.
This is how shit is MEANT to work, its Twenty Ten forgodsake!
The more I hear about the US situation, the more pity I have for my US friends.
and Russian airpower is falling apart due to corruption and lack of maintenance and small serviceable numbers of aircraft).
We could say the same about another "super"power where people are being kicked out of their homes into the street, and where a useless "healthcare" bill has FINALLY been passed, declared "Kommunizt!" and resulted in a Right Wing Riot!
The fact is, the "other teams" hardware beat the crap out of "our boys", it must be admitted. Talk about "shock and awe", being impressive is the whole point of "top of the line fighter jets". I used the Australian airshow example because its close to NZ, where I live, and I remember it, again, too scared to even compete! Mother Russia there gave Uncle a spanking!
Really, the answer with all these Games of War is not to play in the first place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGames
Its better to be loved than feared. Nobody wants to mess with little ol' New Zealand! Our "airforce" sits around rusting:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10698184
I'm glad you mention the Su-27, but lets make it clear, the Russians basically invented these beautiful manoeuvres, they really knocked the US back on their asses at the time these were shown.
I love this story from the Australian International Air Show, for 1995:
"The 1995 Avalon airshow was held on March 21-26. The show was largely stolen by the visiting Russian contingent of Anatoly Kvochur, his specially modified SU-27P Flanker and Il-76 tanker aircraft. Aerial inflight refueling was displayed as well as Kvochur's world famous flying routine with the Flanker which involved the "Cobra", knife edge and extremely low level passes. The final display on the Sunday show saw the Flanker cruise down the Avalon runway at approximately 15 feet AGL. The RAAF and USAF were reluctant to compete with the Flanker and there was no solo F/A-18 Hornet aerobatic display this year. The USAF flew the F-16 Falcon with external drop tanks fitted which they said limited the aircraft to a "3g max" display. Kvochur won the award for best flying display this year."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_International_Airshow#1995
Uncle Sam was too scared to even show up! Ha!
Missiles huh? Say, were you around in the Vietnam days? "Oh, we dont need "dogfighting" anymore! Just take out those worthless guns, give 'em missiles that cost a hundred times more!"
Perhaps the point could be made that NO military is "needed", is it better to go massively in debt, trying to be "feared", yet unable to catch "the single bad guy" after invading half a dozen countries, or would we rather spend basically zero on military, and be loved around the world?
I'm an Apple fan, I'd have to say that of late, where are all these supposed "rabid Apple fans"? I can certainly understand when Apple was, as we dont say in New Zealand, down the shitter, but after absolutely dominating competition, who feels the need to kreech on about Apple now?
:-)
By far, the biggest whiners online are those who spend all day going on about Open Source this, shitty Nokia OS that, and the Android crowd. I dont hold it against them, but still we complain of "Apple fanboys", when I think they've been extinct for at least a half decade!
Now, onto this "flyby", what if these people had access to a plane, and were going to fly it SOMEWHERE, they heard of an interesting, GIANT building, and so decided to make their normal flight OVER THIS BUILDING, rather than fly over a few less interesting buildings?
I've recently gotten interested in Geocaching, if I were in a new area with an interesting cache about, I'd go and find that one, rather than revisiting boring ones in my own area.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocaching
Hi again! :-)
:-) Isnt it normally Vegans who are accused of being "irrational" or "overly emotive"?
:-)
:-)
"Of course we are animals but you are really the one making a distinction between the human animal and the rest of the animal kingdom."
I see other animals as loving their lives as much as I do mine, as having the same basic right *not* to be regarded as a "thing", as our "property". I am not making the distinction here that some Animals are "more equal" than others.
I see the mention of what other Nonhumans do to each other again. We wouldnt use other species as our "moral guide" for any other issue, would we? ie "but Mum, the Monkeys at the zoo fling their own poop at people..." or "but X practice incest, cmon! We're also animals you know!..."
Why would we use "other animals hurt and kill each other" as our excuse? When we can most certainly choose either way, not having any need for harming others.
I like the extreme example too! Cannibalism after being stranded on a mountain range! Sorry, out of the 7 Billion people in the world, roughly how often does that happen? Oh yeah, about once or twice!
The fact remains that you and I are *not* stranded somewhere, left to kill each other, to then die of starvation, and loneliness, after killing the other. We live in New Zealand, and I believe Ireland? We can be as easily Vegan as not. I would argue that its cheaper, more efficient, more beautiful (aesthetically no guts, eyeballs, fur, teeth, shit, sex organs to get rid of) and of course the *least* other animals deserve. If you are indeed Irish, please visit Vegan Ireland,
http://veganireland.vegaplanet.org/
I, like many outside of a few countries am against "the death penalty". I dont agree with "taking" their organs. Have you heard the rumoured "political dissidents" who are said to be executed in China, their organs sold on the "black market" to wealthy individuals elsewhere? I can well understand donating blood, a kidney, my other organs after my death. Being killed for a crime, or a SUPPOSED CRIME in this case, to be stripped of your life, and your organs is heinous.
I can fully understand death being "quick", and yes, once we are gone, I am sure there is absolutely *nothing*, that we may as well be asleep for the rest of eternity, without dreams.
We most certainly would not use such an excuse to do with other humans, "oh yeah, well I killed her sure, because I wanted to eat her, and I killed him because I wanted his head on my wall, but cmon now! I killed them "humanely", with a blow to the head, then cut through their throats with my knife....they bled to death QUICKLY!", right?
I truly believe myself as seeing Humans and Nonhuman Animals as being similar, in the same ethical group, with no imagined "division" for our convenience. Think of countries at war, who see the enemy as "different", why? BECAUSE THEY'RE DIFFERENT! Why are we killing them? BECAUSE THEY'RE DIFFERENT! Who decided they were different? WE KNOW THEY'RE DIFFERENT!
I'm sorry to hear about your personal health. I dont know about yourself, and I wouldnt like to talk about your personal health, as thats personal, but surely we have both noticed the increases in "diseases of the affluent"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseases_of_affluence
Many of those, if not all are related to "nonVeganism". There will *always* be genetic problems with our hearts etc, but surely the majority are based on lifestyle? Again, please dont assume I'm meaning you personally, I'm talking about generally, in our own countries. The links are not controversial, just as Smoking is seen as linked directly to Cancer, people get Cancer without smoking, but its more common to be a Smoker, who happens to get Cancer, and related pro
Boy, what a helpful fan of that site you are, to let us all know!
Hi blackest K!
Sorry for the delay in answering your comment.
I'd first like to state again that *we* are also animals, isnt it interesting how upset some people get over this simple, evolutionary fact? A recent debate I heard mentioned this, of how we like to see ourselves as Gods above all other live forms here, and possibly any others we discover elsewhere, no doubt if we do colonise other planets, find other animals smaller than us, we'll "farm" and kill them too! Oh, but if we find "more Godlike" animals, capable of killing us, then we'll kreech on about how unfair it is!
I certainly know the current casual use of the term "animal", meaning nonhuman animals, and people to mean "above other animals", we can leave it now.
I certainly dont like to think of them as "your Chickens", they are my friends, just as if I might have a flatmate. They live in my backyard, and I close the door to their coop each night, and open it in the morning for them. This is to protect them from Cats. They put themselves "to bed" when they feel like it, they feed for themselves etc. They easily care for one another without my help, they are not dependent on me, although there is a great chance they would soon be killed by Cats at night, without the door closed for them. Perhaps they could fend off Cats in the night, there are four of them, probably one Cat, I'm not sure, they cannot see very well at all in the dark.
I dont think we should be "owning" other animals in the first place, to assign ourselves as their "lords", that they are property. Think of Farm animals, certainly, we "tag" their ears with ID numbers, and now increasingly RFID tags. I'm talking about in New Zealand by the way, where I live, I know quite a lot about other parts of the worlds through books, documentaries, podcasts, websites etc, but talking with you, I'd like to stick to the areas I've been and seen myself.
I dont believe we can judge how we "care" for animals, when we are treating them as things, as our property. I dont think I have any more right to kill one of the Chickens that I love than any of my other, human Friends.
Blackest K, could I ask you please, do you think a Hen loves her life any more or less than you or I would? I would most certainly agree that other animals love being alive as much as you or I. I dont think we could possibly judge either "more" or "less", how would we do such?
"A cycle of life" meaning that we kill other animals on our whim? That we see them as our belongings? Who initiated such a "cycle"? We did. When White men "bought" Black men, that too was such a "cycle of life", "this is the way shit goes, and always will".
Quotes on Slavery is quite useful for this discussion, I rather like this pro slavery quote:
"[The servants] have all behaved extremely well, indeed I cannot utter the least complaint of them, they are deeply interested and very sympathizing with us all. They often speak to me about the war and there was great rejoicing in the kitchen at the news of our recent glorious victory in Virginia [Battle of Bull Run]. What would those miserable abolitionists say to such manifestations of devotion and affection on the part of the poor maltreated slave, whose heart, according to them, is only the abode of hatred and revenge against their master—They know nothing of the bond that unites the master and servant[,] of its tenderness and care on the one side, and its pride[,] fidelity and attachment on the other. ~ Louisa Quitman Lovell (July 1861)"
http://quotesonslavery.org/they-know-nothing-of-the-bond-that-unites-the-master-and-servant/
We find such talk abhorrent today, yet was most certainly The Done Thing during its time in that part of the world. Societal norms change, however, I dont believe fundamental rights of others do.
"who is the abuser" is a question that comes up o
mattack2, this is another thing I find odd when others argue with Vegans, of talking about "KILLING PLANTS!" "HA! YOU'RE A MURDERER! PLANTS THINK YOU'RE HITLER!", this talk is very strange indeed!
I'm not Vegan to try and judge others, any more than how I dont "not steal" to feel better about myself, to feel "better" than those who DO steal.
On this New Zealand news story, about "boiling Lobsters to death" (we call them "crayfish"), it was brought up, "ha, those craaaaaazy Vegans who think we shouldnt treat others as things, they think its wrong to hurt celery...." which got a lame snort of a laugh in response. "now, we put the knife through ITS central nerve cluster"....lets be honest here, a knife through the animals brain. I argue that its "not humane", whatever we deem "humane" to mean.
Vegans most certainly *do* eat plants mattack2. It certainly is *absurd*, using our word of the day, to argue that mowing a lawn is the same as grinding up day old male chicks. Plants are *not* sentient.
"Letting them die when X could save them..."
Lets be clear, there is no evidence that "killing this one nonhuman animal will help this one human animal". "Animal" Experimentation is fundamentally flawed, when our bodies are so obviously different. Really, should we not be killing other humans instead? Because to do otherwise is "letting people die (when blood and guts from humans could save them)"
We wouldnt say that, right? Because to do so, to harm another human is unethical. We recognise other Humans have a right to live. We should offer respect to all animals. It does not mean we need to be giving Dogs drivers licenses, it simply means not treating others as "property", as "things".
Nice to hear from you again.
I love these short replies mattack2 :-)
Thanks for playing Defensive Omnivore Bingo!
http://bit.ly/veganbingo
I'm currently listening to the most recent Intelligence Squared debate about killing others, its focused on Vegetarianism, rather than on Veganism like it should be.
The mention of absurd arguments are brought up during the first speakers opening:
http://www.intelligencesquared.com/events/dont-eat-animals
why mattack? We are animals ourselves afterall.
Why would we feel it were ethical?
Is it right to kill another human to save someone you love (in terms of another presenting no threat, ie, not someone with a gun shooting at you and your loved one)? Is it right to kill one person to save two?
Hi mattack2,
:-)
I wouldnt "have" anyone die, human or nonhuman. I certainly wouldnt kill one person to save one other, or two others. Do you think to act as such would be ethical?
All animal use is equal, why, or perhaps better, how would we rank evils?
Its as easy to be Vegan as not, and its the least other animals deserve.
If you are further interested, might I suggest this recent post on my blog, in regards to speaking out for respect towards other animals. I mention both The Animals Film , and Earthlings, while I never normally bring them up, I dont believe actual footage helps initially, its important we actually *know* what we are doing to others. You mentioned the awful "experiments" and "testing" we force on other animals:
http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/2010/12/iphone-or-ipod-touch-is-activists-best.html
For anyone else interested in Veganism, I'd recommend again
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/
Thanks for replying to me mattack2
Sorry for the delay in replying to you.
:-)
:-) Although, for tradition, older men order "a pint" of beer.
:-) http://bit.ly/roosterfalafel
I find it unacceptable to "use", lets be clear, to *kill* others like this, just as I would find it unacceptable to kill another human being in this manner. I am all for organ donation, after I am dead for example, I am not for being killed for my organs
The issue is actually rather black and white, just as we cannot be a "little bit pregnant", especially as a guy, we either kill others for our uses, or we do not. Throughout time, our societies change, for example, think of human slavery in many developed nations, and how its still having repercussions to this day.
I'm a 23 year old New Zealander, in 1981, years before my birth, was "The Tour". South Africas team visited my country for a tour. This was hotly protested, its a defining moment in my nations history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_South_Africa_rugby_union_tour_of_New_Zealand
A sporting boycott was initiated against South Africa, because of Apartheid. Among the more rural areas, there was "keep politics out of sport", said by our centre Right party to gain approval from those most likely to enjoy the sport, those likely to vote centre Right, against standing up for human rights overseas. Many of our own native people, the Maori were vehemently against the racism, having been prejudiced here.
Early South African tours ran into trouble, with White South Africans not wanting to play a game of sport with "brown" people. We stood up over that, with "No Maoris, No Tour" slogans. Well, now we further refine that, no "Maori", being no plural S in the Maori language, we have further progressed. Times change.
Issues of "welfare" do not matter. All farmed animals live horrible lives, which end in them being killed, "Dairy" cows, Chickens for Eggs, animals such as Sheep from whom we take their Wool, and kill them... they all die the same horrible way.
I am sorry you are diabetic, I am glad you personally are involved in tests. I have family member who were in more dire situations who also were involved in trials. Thank you for helping others. I myself have given blood many times, I'm not sure how much, we dont have "pints" here in the Metric world
I think we can agree there is a hell of a difference between those forced into experiments, human and nonhuman equally, and those who volunteer. Nonhumans appreciate and deserve their lives as much as you or I do. Certainly, I love Falafel, but not as much as my Rooster friend
I suppose we could liken the "farming" of animals for xenotransplantation to if we were to do as such to other, "lower classes" of humans, "but they're going to die in poverty any way". We wouldnt argue "but they had a great life living in sterile concrete" because we see *all* human life as valuable, where as currently nonhumans are seen as "lesser", as our "things". An interesting moral question is of a doctor treating a young, healthy patient for a broken bone, when there are several dying patients, who may need a new heart, a new kidney, a new liver etc. Would it be moral to kill the one healthy man, who broke his arm, to save the many? We would never feel this way, surely?
I hope you can respect me for being consistent in that I believe its wrong to hurt others, to class them as our property, to regard them as "things". I wouldnt lie to you because of personal circumstances re diabetes.
If you'd like to learn more about Veganism, please visit http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ to learn more about Veganism.
I'm from Invercargill, New Zealand. Right now, I'm about ... 20KM or so from the "Living Cell Technologies facility", or so we can suppose, the location is "top secret".
Its a very interesting topic, I am Vegan, I see it as absolutely *horrid* that we would even think of harming other animals, we would not do this to Human animals...or would we?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment
What do you think happens in Gitmo, and Area 51?
As a local of the area, I can speak more in detail of what goes on, of the coverage at a local, and national level. Its basically treated as the second coming of jesus, that his will be a miracle cure, and *MOST IMPORTANTLY*, that our Mayor claims all the credit, for all the money that this WILL (because its going to succeed dammit) bring to the area.
For more on their story, of being left on a bunch of rocks just before Antartica for Whalers to kill, of being designated "an introduced species", who MUST be killed by our Department of "Conservation", apart from a few kept alive as a novelty, please visit my blog post. I include an Australian news video which shows a tour of the awful facility. To my knowledge, this sort of coverage has never occurred in my area, where this is happening, perhaps for fear of public backlash. I also include a letter I wrote to my local newspaper, which was answered by LCT:
http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/2010/05/video-of-pig-transplant-facility-in.html
To what end will we abuse others? Its as easy to be Vegan as not, and its the least other animals deserve.
To learn more about Veganism, please visit http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ or try one these podcasts http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegan-info.html
Jordan Wyatt
Invercargill Vegan Society
hi LanMan04, People I love in my family have died horrid, slow deaths from cancer, men and women. It takes years to fully claim them, they've lost their breasts, their testicles, their will to live. The latest uncle to die was a living skeleton when he passed on. He really looked like that stereotypical "starving refuge". He couldnt eat towards the end, he couldnt walk, he could just sit...and hope for death.
:-) Really, if its sooooo important, and if "it would instantly save our loved ones who are dying right now of X", we should be rounding up orphans, right? "cause they're gonna die anyway..."?
I think its rather clear that "testing" and "experimenting" on nonhuman animals has not brought about change. We are rather different, as you can tell!
I dont know of anyone who would publicly state that. I will fully stand firm and say I'm against "experimenting" on human animals, just as I am against nonhuman animals.
Neither are right, both are awful, rights violations. You're life is your own, and it is precious.
I know my relatives felt that way. But in the end, they wanted to die, rather than keep suffering. Near the end, I'd think both "experimented" on nonhumans, and my cancer suffering relatives lived rather similar lives. Both were awful, perhaps the humans were natural, they were born/caught their problem, for the nonhumans, its fair to assume we deliberately *caused* their problem.
There are enough Nonhumans out there who need our help now, without us harming more.
http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/2010/12/birdman-of-invercargill.html
If you are interested in Veganism, please visit www.abolitionistapproach.com to find out more.
"Japan team says stem cells made paralysed monkey jump again"
Oh, researchers make animals "jump" eh? How original! Thats what 1.21 Jigga-watts'll do to ya!
I recommend The Animals Film, from 1981, nothing has changed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Animals_Film
I would never force someone to watch The Animals Film, or Earthlings, however, for those willing, TAF has very indepth footage of "animal testing". Near the end, a "two headed dog" is created, by sewing one small dogs head, and forelimbs atop a larger dog. Who knows, perhaps by the same laboratory as this "jumping Monkey".
"TOKYO - Japanese researchers said Wednesday they had used stem cells to restore partial mobility in a small monkey that had been paralysed from the neck down by a spinal injury."
Oh, how nice, they wandered about Japanese rainforests looking for injured Monkeys to help! Awwwww :-)
Most likely, they caused the injury deliberately, perhaps by cutting his or her spine, or in some other fashion. "Look, we kinda fixed it this time" is not a cause for celebration.
We shouldnt be "experimenting" on Nonhuman Animals period.
Its as easy to be Vegan as not, and its the least we can do for others. We kill 56 Billion land animals each year, Fish are not even counted individually, UN FAO statistics from 2007 http://www.bit.ly/56billion , we can do far more help for other animals by *not* treating them as our property, as things, than no doubt deliberately paralysing imported Monkeys, and then "experimenting" to "fix" them.
For more about Veganism, please visit http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ or try these podcasts , http://bit.ly/veganpodcastinfo . Disclaimer, Coexisting is mine.
Hi Urkki,
;-)
;-)
I'll have to leave this as a quick reply.
Once more, please let us all know where you live, where you are literally OWNED by your "employer"! We are of course animals too, can you agree with me there? We set up an artificial distinction, "humans" and "animals", that we are "above" them, or above "IT" perhaps more accurately. Its rather interesting that we chose that position for ourselves, eh? Perhaps Cats think they are above us?
Physics, "fundamental laws" are not being challenged here, we are talking about unnecessary suffering and death. Are we for unnecessary suffering and death? Why do we kill the animals which we do? Do we *need* to, as a "fundamental principle of physics", or do we CHOOSE to do so?
In New Zealand, theres another huge OUTRAGE (!!!) over Seals being hurt, why have we built certain animals up onto a pedestal? Where they reach a level of demi-gods? Where some people will say things like "animals are better than us, Human beings are a virus on this planet...animals are innocent", once more with that artificial distinction between "humans" and "animals", but in the nonhumans favour this time!
Whales, Dolphins, Seals...hmm, lots of "large marine animals", Cats and Dogs, we somehow have made these animals PERFECT, AMAZING, WONDERFUL, SPECIAL. What distinguishes them in any way from the Chickens I look after? Why do we love some animals, genuinely respect their right to be free, I'd assume *MOST* people in my society would be against having Whales performing etc, you can thank Free Willy for that!
Animals live in the wild just fine Urkki, they most certainly do not need us to cage them, to own them, to control them, to treat them as "ours".
I used Chickens as my example because 1) they make up the VAST majority of the 56 Billion land animals killed each year (2007 UN FAO figures PDF http://bit.ly/56billion ), and 2) because I look after a family of Chickens. I think they are a splendid example for those reasons, they are the most killed, and the nonhumans I myself am most familiar with.
I just founded the Invercargill Vegan Society, promoting Veganism in my small, rural city. I've had my Chicken Friends pose around my business cards etc
http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/2010/12/invercargill-vegan-society-business.html
We have created an artificial justification, a "circle of life". Yes, animals (and we are animals too of course) are born, live, die. We should not harm or kill others, where possible. There will always be deaths, of "natural causes", "act of god", and "accidental" etc. These are unavoidable.
Other animals do many things that you and I would find abhorrent, and morally wrong. We do not justify those activities with "but...Animals do it to each other!...", because they run afoul of our Societal Norms, what we've grown up with, what we've grown up doing to others.
I wouldnt campaign for "humane child molestation", there is no such thing. I wouldnt spend millions of dollars, volunteers time, and perhaps worst, effort to influence consumers opinion against a subset of killing and using others. IE, "factory farming".
Such activity is common from Animal Welfare groups, such as New Zealands SAFE, who are over the moon about a "sow crate ban", for Mother Pigs. They've spent millions on this, and have really made actual progress difficult for those promoting respect for Animals right not to be "things", for us to kill how we wish, for the most trivial of reasons, "coz we like it".
This featured as episode 39 of my show, where I was joined by guests to talk about this declared "VICTORY!!!" : http://coexistingwithnonhumanani
Hi gox, you were the one to mention Welfare and Rights first :-)
I'd find it hard to describe differences in LEVELS of "cruelty", but yes, I think Professor Gary Francione made a good argument for American sportsman Michael Vick, his Dogs who were forced to fight may well have had "better lives" than the animals we kill for "Hotdogs" etc while watching him play. His article really was *fantastic*:
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20070822_Were_all_Michael_Vick.html