I, for one, remain skeptical. My wife doesn't play driving games of any sort and she's an awful driver. I don't play driving games either, and I'm about as boring of a driver as you'll find outside of rural Iowa. (I've been to rural Iowa, everyone drives exactly 3 miles under the posted speed limit.)
Can we do a controlled study on this? Subject some non-gamers to a large dose of GTA for 6 months and see how their driving changes with respect to a control group? Can we do actual science instead of bullshit stuides? Also, get off my lawn.
Can I do the study? I don't drive in RL but I love driving games on the computer. Mainly Need for Speed games, where you don't take any damage crashing into stuff? I've learned to use that to further my driving skills in the game.
I'm perfect for this RL test. Put in a car, and show me how to start it, and which button is the gas (I don't need no stinking breaks).
Make sure it has nitro, 'cause I need that to get away from the cops.
It doesn't threaten anyone, or shouldn't, but it is brandishing, which is an offense and should be.
Exactly, and it's something I once got in trouble for doing. The following is a true story:
One day years ago, I had been having some trouble with a drug-addled neighbor. It had escalated throughout the day and finally reached the crisis point around 7 PM, when I though he was going to come in through my window and cause harm to my wife, a dinner guest and I. I ran into the bedroom, grabbed my Mini-14 and made sure he saw it as I racked the action. The guy left, but a while later, I noticed the motion sensor light in front of the house had come on. Thinking it was my neighbor returning for more trouble, I peeked out through the blinds only to see that it wasn't him, it was several police officers. Armed police officers, one of whom had his M-16 pointed right at me. Trust me when I say that that's not a good feeling.
In short, all three of us in the house were ordered out, handcuffed and sat down on a wall while the PD sorted the whole thing out. In the end, I wasn't arrested or anything--in fact, the cops said it was my neighbor's fault--but I learned that just showing a weapon can be considered a crime under certain circumstances.
Your problem was: not calling the police before hand, complain about your neighbor, and tell them he was acting like he was going to break thru your window to attack you. That you were scared for the safety of your family and your guest, and that you were going to get your gun out for safety, and could the police come take care of this dude before he broke into your house.
Sure, you don't like to narc on people. I was brought up like that, deal with your own problems, don't go crying to others about it. Guess what? That don't mean shit in the real world. I found thru working, any time you do something someone doesn't like, they go crying to the boss. And since you don't, it suddenly looks like your a dick because peeps are complaining about you, but you aren't complaining about them.
And I'll give ya some info about druggies, mainly since I used to be one. They don't like cops just showing up out of the blue. They don't care when they know they are coming and can get rid of all illegal stuff that might be on them, but if they aren't expecting them? Usually it goes bad for them.
Sure, I know, you own a gun and you wanted to look tough for your wife and house guest, but look what happened? You got treated like the criminal at first.
I hope you learned the lessons this incident taught ya, because you weren't in the wrong, you just didn't do it like society wants us to do it.
The price of gasoline is not affected because this spill has no affect whatsoever on the refineries in Texas. They are still collecting oil from Saudi tankers and still pumping out gasoline, diesel, kerosene, and so on.
Also, and this is just personal opinion, I think people that believe in conspiracy theories (9/11 was a planned demolition, etc) are whackjobs. Why believe in outlandish complicated scenarios when the simplest answer is staring you right in the face? Supply-and-demand. That's why prices fluctuate.
okay, simple huh? 9/11, it's simpler to believe that it was done by our government since the resources and knowledge to pull something like that would be a lot harder for disgruntled foriegners to do it.
yes, I know this is off topic, but really, simple solutions are not always the correct solutions. Just saying...
Im sure his hotfix and one man testing matches MS's extensive testing. Seriously, do you think any company would just release this fix immediately without serious testing?
It only punishes end users and admins in the short term. When these people are fed up with Microsoft, they will turn elsewhere, and then Microsoft will be hurt.
It doesn't punish them at all.
not sure how sharing info with everyone, instead of just MS can hurt admins. Now the admins have the knowledge they need to prevent the bug from being exploited.
If dude didn't say anything, who knows how many other people, criminals, could of found the exploit and used it to gain access to people computers?
And yes, I understand that by the exploit being released to the public, now criminals have access to it. yes, that is true, 'cept now the public has access to the same info and can be forewarned, which they wouldn't of had otherwise.
>Whatever it takes to damage Microsoft is okay with me.
This doesnt punish MS, it punishes end users and admins. Sadly, this fact doesnt matter to those who are just full of MS hate.
How does it punish them? Lets them know about an exploit before MS would of let them known, or patched it?
Just because this guy released this doesn't mean he's the only one who knows about it. Sure, other peeps know about it now, but then so do the admins. They know what to fix & watch for now, they wouldn't of before.
Maybe you want to believe MS can do no evil, but they have a history of being pricks. They only care about making money, ever. Well that and being the top dog on everything, no matter how they get to that position.
You realize this is about free speech?
MS would rather people didn't have free speech and aren't able to say anything about it's bugs. But since we have free speech, they try to make it seem bad if you share knowledge about bugs in their products. This guy, being tired of how MS stomps on this free speech, and how they take their time to share this knowledge from others, decided to not only tell MS, but 5 days later tell the world. Excersing his rights of free speech.
His doing this, now lets everyone being equally informed, instead of just a few people and MS.
sorry, I rarely do car analogies because, well, i've never owned a car. don't drive, don't want to. But i'm usually great with computer analogies, 'cept they are almost never needed here on slashdot...
So these companies, that make millions of dollars a year, aren't successful?
Seems to me, any companies that pays it's bills, pays it's employes and still make any profit is doing good.
Sure, some might argue that the shareholders (if it's a corp) might not be making much, but i don't give a fuck about them, it's been really obvious they don't care about me.
You know, I have a G1, and there isn't enough screen space for apps, & ads.
I don't mind them on my computer, since they don't usually take up too much space.
but on my phone? fuck that.
If your a developer, screw the ads, make a free version thats missing somethings from the paid version, but don't go putting ads into it. Ask for donations.
I will not pay for something to get rid of ads, ever. I will hack my way around the ads, or pirate the paid version.
I see ads like a homeless person panhandling. Really fucking annoying, and usually smell bad. And they want my attention.
Guess what? I don't give those homeless people any money, nor am I going to give you money.
Then don't download the software. I write apps for a living; either I charge you money up front or I put ads in the application, and I give you the option of which you want. If you find having both of those options unfair, then just pretend I don't offer a free version.
Actually that's only the case for the general audience. For you, I'd prefer it if you didn't use my apps at all -- you're probably a customer service nightmare, too, and not worth the bother. Of course, you also probably don't actually own an iPad, iPhone or iPod Touch, and are just being a righteously indignant douche; in which case, this is all academic.
then don't bitch when I pirate your app because i don't want the adds, nor do I want to pay you for your app.
We got space, which is a vacuum, from what i understand.
We got black holes, that apparently light and nothing else can escape from.
We also have massive blackholes that are the center of galaxies that seem to be seeding the galaxies.
Here's my theory (construction zone ahead, ie, work in progress)
Our "big bang" started from a black hole being started in another universe. My thoughts are: A black hole starts, it's like pimple or something. A weakening in the structure of time & space that's able to hold stuff in it, but not spit it back out the way it came. When it gets full enough, it causes a "big bang" in a new universe.
Being as space is a vacuum, that the pressure created from one universe to the other is enough to push the galaxies like they are going.
Of course, there's a lot of work to go in this theory, and it's not based of math or physics, or anything, other then my own understanding or trying to understand.
It's unlimited TIME, not unlimited data. It says that in the contract, if you bother to read it before signing. And no I don't think the speaker exaggerated. Just over 66 GB per month is not that high. I probably reach that point myself, what with TV watching and movie downloading.
What these companies should do, IMHO, is provide 1 GB per month and then if you want additional throughput, charge about 10 cents per extra gigabyte. If people want the data, they can pay for the extra burden on the network (extra electricity, et cetera).
says who?
My phone is not unlimited time. I have minutes and other crap.
My data plan is "unlimited" but if you look, there's a certain amount you can download a month
Explain to me how that fits what you said?
Just so you know, I can not talk on my data plan, unless of course, I use skype or voip, which then isn't unlimited, because it has a download limit.
There's very few phones that have "unlimited" phone time. in fact, i don't even know what your talking about, because no phones have unlimited talking, unless you are referring to landlines, not wireless, which if is the case, your talking about the wrong crap.
At the time, the top award on the slot, a progressive game that takes a percentage of bets placed in all similar machines, was $251,183.16. But to be eligible for the top award, a maximum wager of 400 credits, or $4, was required. Chavez's 40-cent wager was eligible for a prize of 20,000 credits, or $200, if she would have hit the progressive.
So.... you're playing a 40 cent game for $200 max, who cares if it shows 42 millions when it's impossible? I can tell you what happened too, a 32 bit unsigned has a max of 4,294,967,295 <-- seem familiar? Somehow a subtraction lacked a bounds check and it underflowed to be UINT_MAX cents. And for that they should pay out 200,000 times her largest possible theoretical winnings? Sorry, but I'll side with the casino on this one.
Thats why you pay people to test the code.
Sorry, I still side with the winners, the casino is just trying to weasel out of paying what it owes. Mistake or not, they are responsible for it.
This is quite clearly a sales pitch - am I the only reader left thinking, 'well so what'?
Its all well and good keeping old computers running (providing the OS is secure enough), but I for one feel that this is neither news for nerds, nor stuff that matters.
And I'm not even clicking the link to vindicate the posting, click-through-wise.
Old computers are appreciated by nerds. If you were really one, you'd understand that, even if you weren't into old computers.
A peeking tom living nearby has been secretly taking pictures of your daughter for the past 3 years. And (for the sake of argument) there are local laws that forbids exactly this kind of tracking/following/photo-taking activity. Now you find this out, but you have no idea what kind of pictures have been taken, you confronted the peeping tom and he promised to delete all the pictures.
Do you prefer to:
a) To protect your daughter's privacy, let the peeping tom delete all the pictures, trust him that he will actually do it.
b) To protect your daughter's privacy, call the police, knowing that they will need to take the pictures as evidence to prosecute the peeping tom?
You are arguing for (a), that may be the right answer for you, but don't judge others arguing for (b) as "wrong".
(c) Grab peeping tom by the scruff of his neck, drag him into his house, and go through his crap looking for the pictures. Take what you need as evidence against him, destroy what you need to. Break his fingers, etc.
2 wrongs don't make a right? Nope, but peeping tom will probably think twice about peeping again. or at least, getting caught at it.
I suggest you read the history of Al capone. He was never tried for killing anyone. Instead he went to jail for not paying taxes on his speakeasies, and illegal liqueur sales.
I don't know why people fail to understand history the implications it has across time. I am personally waiting for the IRS to start cracking down on drug dealers. there are billions in taxes that are waiting to be collected.
Be easier if they legalized drugs and became the dealers themselves.
I am totally unconcerned with Google or anyone else collecting this kind of data. If you don't want anyone to know about your access point then stop broadcasting for hundreds of feet over public property. If you don't want me to decrypt your satellite feeds to get free TV then stop broadcasting it into my receiver on my property.
I don't mind that people see me when I go out on the street.
But at the same time, I don't want Google or any other company to film me, and digitally store every trip I make.
But following your line of thought, I should reason that if I don't want Google to film me in my own street, then I shouldn't go outside.
But the security camera in the store is okay? How about the atm you walked by? chances are it took your picture also.
the light you stopped at? Didn't see the camera on it?
Funding to the Space Shuttle has been around $5 billion per year for most of the last 30 years or so, and just keeping the program on operational life support was quoted at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_program">$2.5 billion per year in early 2009.
So if they deliver that entire program whose lifetime costs are only 2.2 Billion, I would be super impressed. In fact I would be impressed if we did it ourselves for 5 times that amount.
Obviously they are low balling the bid so they can charge more for cost overruns after they have the contract.
Slashdot Mirror
Man, I know how that is, waking up from a deep slumber, pisses me off also.
Maybe if we just be extra quiet, it will sleep for a few more years and not be so angry?
I, for one, remain skeptical. My wife doesn't play driving games of any sort and she's an awful driver. I don't play driving games either, and I'm about as boring of a driver as you'll find outside of rural Iowa. (I've been to rural Iowa, everyone drives exactly 3 miles under the posted speed limit.)
Can we do a controlled study on this? Subject some non-gamers to a large dose of GTA for 6 months and see how their driving changes with respect to a control group? Can we do actual science instead of bullshit stuides? Also, get off my lawn.
Can I do the study? I don't drive in RL but I love driving games on the computer. Mainly Need for Speed games, where you don't take any damage crashing into stuff? I've learned to use that to further my driving skills in the game.
I'm perfect for this RL test. Put in a car, and show me how to start it, and which button is the gas (I don't need no stinking breaks).
Make sure it has nitro, 'cause I need that to get away from the cops.
I'm a 34 year old Gamer boy, and a Geek.
And apparently clueless.
Maximum PC is a great magazine.
No it's not.
Really sorry you think so.
Well, unless you're Google, in which case you're raked over the coals and accused of being at the right hand of the devil himself...
Unless your MS and you'll do whatever it takes to own the market...
It doesn't threaten anyone, or shouldn't, but it is brandishing, which is an offense and should be.
Exactly, and it's something I once got in trouble for doing. The following is a true story:
One day years ago, I had been having some trouble with a drug-addled neighbor. It had escalated throughout the day and finally reached the crisis point around 7 PM, when I though he was going to come in through my window and cause harm to my wife, a dinner guest and I. I ran into the bedroom, grabbed my Mini-14 and made sure he saw it as I racked the action. The guy left, but a while later, I noticed the motion sensor light in front of the house had come on. Thinking it was my neighbor returning for more trouble, I peeked out through the blinds only to see that it wasn't him, it was several police officers. Armed police officers, one of whom had his M-16 pointed right at me. Trust me when I say that that's not a good feeling.
In short, all three of us in the house were ordered out, handcuffed and sat down on a wall while the PD sorted the whole thing out. In the end, I wasn't arrested or anything--in fact, the cops said it was my neighbor's fault--but I learned that just showing a weapon can be considered a crime under certain circumstances.
Your problem was: not calling the police before hand, complain about your neighbor, and tell them he was acting like he was going to break thru your window to attack you. That you were scared for the safety of your family and your guest, and that you were going to get your gun out for safety, and could the police come take care of this dude before he broke into your house.
Sure, you don't like to narc on people. I was brought up like that, deal with your own problems, don't go crying to others about it. Guess what? That don't mean shit in the real world. I found thru working, any time you do something someone doesn't like, they go crying to the boss. And since you don't, it suddenly looks like your a dick because peeps are complaining about you, but you aren't complaining about them.
And I'll give ya some info about druggies, mainly since I used to be one. They don't like cops just showing up out of the blue. They don't care when they know they are coming and can get rid of all illegal stuff that might be on them, but if they aren't expecting them? Usually it goes bad for them.
Sure, I know, you own a gun and you wanted to look tough for your wife and house guest, but look what happened? You got treated like the criminal at first.
I hope you learned the lessons this incident taught ya, because you weren't in the wrong, you just didn't do it like society wants us to do it.
The price of gasoline is not affected because this spill has no affect whatsoever on the refineries in Texas. They are still collecting oil from Saudi tankers and still pumping out gasoline, diesel, kerosene, and so on.
Also, and this is just personal opinion, I think people that believe in conspiracy theories (9/11 was a planned demolition, etc) are whackjobs. Why believe in outlandish complicated scenarios when the simplest answer is staring you right in the face? Supply-and-demand. That's why prices fluctuate .
okay, simple huh? 9/11, it's simpler to believe that it was done by our government since the resources and knowledge to pull something like that would be a lot harder for disgruntled foriegners to do it.
yes, I know this is off topic, but really, simple solutions are not always the correct solutions. Just saying...
Im sure his hotfix and one man testing matches MS's extensive testing. Seriously, do you think any company would just release this fix immediately without serious testing?
yes, I would expect MS to do exactly that.
It only punishes end users and admins in the short term. When these people are fed up with Microsoft, they will turn elsewhere, and then Microsoft will be hurt.
It doesn't punish them at all.
not sure how sharing info with everyone, instead of just MS can hurt admins. Now the admins have the knowledge they need to prevent the bug from being exploited.
If dude didn't say anything, who knows how many other people, criminals, could of found the exploit and used it to gain access to people computers?
And yes, I understand that by the exploit being released to the public, now criminals have access to it. yes, that is true, 'cept now the public has access to the same info and can be forewarned, which they wouldn't of had otherwise.
>Whatever it takes to damage Microsoft is okay with me.
This doesnt punish MS, it punishes end users and admins. Sadly, this fact doesnt matter to those who are just full of MS hate.
How does it punish them? Lets them know about an exploit before MS would of let them known, or patched it?
Just because this guy released this doesn't mean he's the only one who knows about it. Sure, other peeps know about it now, but then so do the admins. They know what to fix & watch for now, they wouldn't of before.
Maybe you want to believe MS can do no evil, but they have a history of being pricks. They only care about making money, ever. Well that and being the top dog on everything, no matter how they get to that position.
You realize this is about free speech?
MS would rather people didn't have free speech and aren't able to say anything about it's bugs.
But since we have free speech, they try to make it seem bad if you share knowledge about bugs in their products.
This guy, being tired of how MS stomps on this free speech, and how they take their time to share this knowledge from others, decided to not only tell MS, but 5 days later tell the world. Excersing his rights of free speech.
His doing this, now lets everyone being equally informed, instead of just a few people and MS.
sorry, I rarely do car analogies because, well, i've never owned a car. don't drive, don't want to. But i'm usually great with computer analogies, 'cept they are almost never needed here on slashdot...
Sorry, but did you read the article? He got an immediate response.
This guy is clearly trying to meet the 5 day minimum only. Who reports a bug on a Saturday, then goes public first thing the morning of the 5th day?
Does Google Have a Double Standard on Full Disclosure?
You know alot of business's use the 5 day rule.
You have 5 days to respond to this, etc.
Or like the electric companies, "7 day disconnect notice".
companies don't let you slide, why should be let companies slide?
Um, really.
So these companies, that make millions of dollars a year, aren't successful?
Seems to me, any companies that pays it's bills, pays it's employes and still make any profit is doing good.
Sure, some might argue that the shareholders (if it's a corp) might not be making much, but i don't give a fuck about them, it's been really obvious they don't care about me.
You know, I have a G1, and there isn't enough screen space for apps, & ads.
I don't mind them on my computer, since they don't usually take up too much space.
but on my phone? fuck that.
If your a developer, screw the ads, make a free version thats missing somethings from the paid version, but don't go putting ads into it. Ask for donations.
I will not pay for something to get rid of ads, ever. I will hack my way around the ads, or pirate the paid version.
I see ads like a homeless person panhandling. Really fucking annoying, and usually smell bad. And they want my attention.
Guess what? I don't give those homeless people any money, nor am I going to give you money.
Then don't download the software. I write apps for a living; either I charge you money up front or I put ads in the application, and I give you the option of which you want. If you find having both of those options unfair, then just pretend I don't offer a free version.
Actually that's only the case for the general audience. For you, I'd prefer it if you didn't use my apps at all -- you're probably a customer service nightmare, too, and not worth the bother. Of course, you also probably don't actually own an iPad, iPhone or iPod Touch, and are just being a righteously indignant douche; in which case, this is all academic.
then don't bitch when I pirate your app because i don't want the adds, nor do I want to pay you for your app.
I've always wondered about this.
We got space, which is a vacuum, from what i understand.
We got black holes, that apparently light and nothing else can escape from.
We also have massive blackholes that are the center of galaxies that seem to be seeding the galaxies.
Here's my theory (construction zone ahead, ie, work in progress)
Our "big bang" started from a black hole being started in another universe. My thoughts are: A black hole starts, it's like pimple or something. A weakening in the structure of time & space that's able to hold stuff in it, but not spit it back out the way it came. When it gets full enough, it causes a "big bang" in a new universe.
Being as space is a vacuum, that the pressure created from one universe to the other is enough to push the galaxies like they are going.
Of course, there's a lot of work to go in this theory, and it's not based of math or physics, or anything, other then my own understanding or trying to understand.
It's unlimited TIME, not unlimited data. It says that in the contract, if you bother to read it before signing. And no I don't think the speaker exaggerated. Just over 66 GB per month is not that high. I probably reach that point myself, what with TV watching and movie downloading.
What these companies should do, IMHO, is provide 1 GB per month and then if you want additional throughput, charge about 10 cents per extra gigabyte. If people want the data, they can pay for the extra burden on the network (extra electricity, et cetera).
says who?
My phone is not unlimited time. I have minutes and other crap.
My data plan is "unlimited" but if you look, there's a certain amount you can download a month
Explain to me how that fits what you said?
Just so you know, I can not talk on my data plan, unless of course, I use skype or voip, which then isn't unlimited, because it has a download limit.
There's very few phones that have "unlimited" phone time. in fact, i don't even know what your talking about, because no phones have unlimited talking, unless you are referring to landlines, not wireless, which if is the case, your talking about the wrong crap.
Hey, tech dudes!!!
Get to work on batteries. Don't give a fuck about a phone that can do everything, since that means a couple hours battery life.
Give me phone that can do everything with a battery that lasts at least 8 hours with everything running.
Until then, stfu
Well, bibles need those warning labels also, i would think.
Or just need to put it under fantasy/science fiction.
You got to look at the facts.
Games made about movies usually suck.
Movies made about games usually suck.
Yet, both get made.
Why?
Oh, because of dumb ass consumers.
Well, here's a follow-up on that $42.9M story:
At the time, the top award on the slot, a progressive game that takes a percentage of bets placed in all similar machines, was $251,183.16. But to be eligible for the top award, a maximum wager of 400 credits, or $4, was required. Chavez's 40-cent wager was eligible for a prize of 20,000 credits, or $200, if she would have hit the progressive.
So.... you're playing a 40 cent game for $200 max, who cares if it shows 42 millions when it's impossible? I can tell you what happened too, a 32 bit unsigned has a max of 4,294,967,295 <-- seem familiar? Somehow a subtraction lacked a bounds check and it underflowed to be UINT_MAX cents. And for that they should pay out 200,000 times her largest possible theoretical winnings? Sorry, but I'll side with the casino on this one.
Thats why you pay people to test the code.
Sorry, I still side with the winners, the casino is just trying to weasel out of paying what it owes. Mistake or not, they are responsible for it.
This is quite clearly a sales pitch - am I the only reader left thinking, 'well so what'?
Its all well and good keeping old computers running (providing the OS is secure enough), but I for one feel that this is neither news for nerds, nor stuff that matters.
And I'm not even clicking the link to vindicate the posting, click-through-wise.
Old computers are appreciated by nerds. If you were really one, you'd understand that, even if you weren't into old computers.
Consider another analogy:
A peeking tom living nearby has been secretly taking pictures of your daughter for the past 3 years. And (for the sake of argument) there are local laws that forbids exactly this kind of tracking/following/photo-taking activity. Now you find this out, but you have no idea what kind of pictures have been taken, you confronted the peeping tom and he promised to delete all the pictures.
Do you prefer to:
a) To protect your daughter's privacy, let the peeping tom delete all the pictures, trust him that he will actually do it.
b) To protect your daughter's privacy, call the police, knowing that they will need to take the pictures as evidence to prosecute the peeping tom?
You are arguing for (a), that may be the right answer for you, but don't judge others arguing for (b) as "wrong".
(c) Grab peeping tom by the scruff of his neck, drag him into his house, and go through his crap looking for the pictures. Take what you need as evidence against him, destroy what you need to. Break his fingers, etc.
2 wrongs don't make a right? Nope, but peeping tom will probably think twice about peeping again. or at least, getting caught at it.
I suggest you read the history of Al capone. He was never tried for killing anyone. Instead he went to jail for not paying taxes on his speakeasies, and illegal liqueur sales.
I don't know why people fail to understand history the implications it has across time. I am personally waiting for the IRS to start cracking down on drug dealers. there are billions in taxes that are waiting to be collected.
Be easier if they legalized drugs and became the dealers themselves.
I am totally unconcerned with Google or anyone else collecting this kind of data. If you don't want anyone to know about your access point then stop broadcasting for hundreds of feet over public property. If you don't want me to decrypt your satellite feeds to get free TV then stop broadcasting it into my receiver on my property.
I don't mind that people see me when I go out on the street.
But at the same time, I don't want Google or any other company to film me, and digitally store every trip I make.
But following your line of thought, I should reason that if I don't want Google to film me in my own street, then I shouldn't go outside.
But the security camera in the store is okay? How about the atm you walked by? chances are it took your picture also.
the light you stopped at? Didn't see the camera on it?
Funding to the Space Shuttle has been around $5 billion per year for most of the last 30 years or so, and just keeping the program on operational life support was quoted at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_program">$2.5 billion per year in early 2009.
So if they deliver that entire program whose lifetime costs are only 2.2 Billion, I would be super impressed. In fact I would be impressed if we did it ourselves for 5 times that amount.
Obviously they are low balling the bid so they can charge more for cost overruns after they have the contract.