I haven't seen the movie, but i've read the book and it was by far the worst sci-fi book i had ever read. So, yes, it was unlike anything i had ever seen before.
Perhaps one of the reasons why there aren't any "white collar" childern's stories is that it's simply difficult to explain what a white collar dad does for a living. Just like in the joke where a lawyer tells his son that he plays the piano in a brothel, because he's unable to explain what he actually does. Plus, it's probably bloody hard to tell an interesting story about the day of a white collar worker. There's no visible result to their work. Hell, sitting behind a desk hardly classifies as work at all (i remember that it was quite a disappointment for me when i found out that my dad, a mechanic, didn't spend all his day messing around with sophisticated machinery). Now, a fireman -- that's something completely different. Anyone can see that his work is an important one. The same goes for the truck drivers -- they have a whole huge truck to steer, for god's sake.
I'd recommend what many others already have: read her books that'd stimulate her imagination. You'll find that many of these books are rather geeky in themselves. Don't let the System get her too early (Disney'll take care of that for you).
Rolling up your own stories is always a good idea. And i guess making up stories of heroic programmers shouldn't be that hard, either -- there's tons of IT lore out there; some of it must be suitable for a children's story. Use some fairytale as a model. Add some magic (shouldn't be hard -- computers are rather magical in themselves) and mystery (people typing magic words, etc), and you're ready to go.
Russia knows that the US doesn't really care what they do in response. This should be interesting. I mean, what would you do?
I predict that not a shit will change, at least not in the long run. There may be an initial strong reaction to this particular act of terror (after all, Putin's got to show that he's dealing with the Chechnyan problem), but no decisive action. Sure, Putin might bomb the Chechens, or drive them out of their homes, but that's nothing new. Russians been doing this for years now, but there has been no change for the better. And there won't be, as long as the people in charge of the operations aren't either competent or motivated enough to deal with the situation.
What would i do? I dunno. Genocide, while tempting (it's what Stalin did), isn't an option if you're (playing at being) a democratic country. Bombing the hell out of Chechnya hasn't given much results so far (if anything then it has given rise to radical Islam). Perhaps the situation would turn to better if they could get someone in charge who had real authority over the warlords that are running the place right now (get the majority to follow the leader, and eradicate the rebellious ones), and grant the republic some autonomy (some = enough to show that it's not a puppet regime). But that's a tad difficult to achieve if you don't negotiate, period (though even negotiations may not give a favourable result).
Oh, it's easy to read some social commentary into it. For example: "Set in a mythic version of the late 1930s, this movie is a stunning tribute to classic sci-fi serials, comics and pulp magazines of that era." To elaborate on this, you could, for instance, draw parallels between tributes to classic sci-fi and the increasingly popular retro-looking cars. And talk about how, unlike in the 50's, all these cars are computer generated, etc. Oh, and i won't even mention parallels between the world "then" and "now..."
"The primary factor affecting visibility is vehicle trajectory and two,...two primary factors affecting visibility are vehicle trajectory, lighting conditions and...three. Three primary factors, which are vehicle trajectory, lighting conditions, launch vehicle type and atmo...no.Among the factors affecting visibility..." etc.
I have to confess, though, that i haven't really ever gotten around to reading the Psalms. They didn't seem interesting at that time, and i wasn't really desperate to read the whole darn book (I was more keen on getting to the Revelations ASAP).
Gah. Of course you're right, etc. And you know, i did actually even think of most of what you said, but it sort of went missing somewhere in the course of typing all that stuff i said. I guess i got kinda carried away with all these railroads (oh, look! Shiny things in the middle of Siberia!) and completely forgot to talk about what happened later.
If these scientists/doctors/quacks are to believed its amazing we dont all just crumble completely into a blubbering mass under the pressure of all these external forces and influences we are subject to.
Well, many people -- some of them scientists, some sci-fi authors and yet others something inbetween -- have actually claimed that if we ever managed to build an AI, there could be a great danger of it becoming schizoprenic due to all those forces having influence on it. Just as a 'uman would if it wasn't so ignorant of most of the stuff surrounding him (indeed, ignorance is bliss).
So, what changes, pray tell me, did you expect to see? The only thing i could have imagined as being different was the view of Iraq -- with all those power stations and things having recently suffered from a war'n'all. But maybe there really hasn't been any change in this rescpect?
These lights represent larger settlements, as smaller ones (like villages) don't simply generate enough light to be seen on this picture. Larger settlements are always situated by major transportation routes -- like railways, highways or waterways (see the coastlines practically anywhere in the world).
Now, taking this into consideration, the photo will yield more information. You can, for instance, quite clearly trace the route of the Trans-Siberian Railway (the narrow strip of lights running through most of Russia). In the US, the Western part was settled (by the Europeans, that is) much later than the Eastern part; as a consequence, the transportation infrastructure is less developed and it really shows (there are probably also differences in the landscape -- a city is more likely to be built in the plains that in the Great Rocky Mountains).
I don't think there's much difference between these two pictures. These lights generally represent larger cities or urban areas, but these don't usually appear (or disappear) that fast.
it just baffles me that people actually sometimes *want* to go through the punishment of reading him.
I'm not saying that what you said is wrong or stupid or anything, but in my experience, most (if not all) of the people who give me weird looks when i tell them i've read Joyce, have never actually read any of his books or have only read an excerpt of Ulysses from the high school World Literature reader.
The problem probably lies in all those piles of crap that has been written about Joyce. I bet all those academic types are just jelous that "the masses" have taken over most of their oh so sacred art, and most of these books and papers about Joyce are written solely for the purpose of scaring people and keeping them from reading his books:H
If you really believe this, then please pray tell me what a myth is?
Because "a widely held (mis)belief [that forms a part of an ideology]" -- and these are widely held beliefs, as "ignorant non-IT people" are still in majority -- is a myth in my book.
"Proprietary software" doesn't necessarily mean MS, though. He could just as well be talking about the merits of gcc over proprietary compilers, etc. Not that it changes anything, though.
I think you are a bit too hasty giving out medical diagnoses. Mikk may have been trolling the same way as you were.
Never underestimate the stupidity of other people. Including me.
I think that it is not too ironical to held this dispute on/.
No, it's not. What is ironic, however, is that we're (well, at least i am) complaining about how English is taking over, and yet we're doing it, gasp, in English. (OK, i do understand that it's a bit more appropriate to use English here, as someone might actually *read* this thread)
PS: May I ask, why have you replaced 'ü' by 'y' in your posting? The two characters are pronounced almost the same in swedish. Finnish people are not using 'ü' at all. But your comment was in in estonian...
First of all, if you haven't guessed it yet then i'm an Estonian. That's why i find holding this conversation in English so funny (well, that and my bizarre sense of humour).
Miks ma kasutan ü asemel y-d? See võis vist olla Johannes Aavik, kes ytles, et nii on õigem, sest ü on germaani laen jne. Teiseks on mulle kardetavasti halvasti mõjunud täpitähtedeta klaviatuuri kasutamine -- ole õnnelik, et ma õ asemel 6 ei kirjuta:H Kolmandaks -- ja see on tegelt vist peamine põhjus -- on ilmselt tegu järjekordse katsega millegipoolest teistest erineda*.
(Translation: The reason why i use 'y' instead of 'ü' is that this is supposedly more correct Estonian (because of the Fenno-Ugric roots'n'all). That and the bad effects of using a US keyboard. Oh, and i also think it's cool:)
* Kui nyyd järele mõelda, siis muudab see muuhulgas ka mu käekirja veidi loetavamaks...
You seem to be misinformed, Sir! Where did You get this as a 'documented fact'?
Troll? Maybe. Misinformed? Hardly. Just because i didn't mention any concrete numbers it doesn't mean i'm misinformed. Yeah, i know there weren't many Russians living in Estonia before the war. But my point was, that not all of the Russians living in Estonia are colonists.
The problem is that they are loyal to Russia and they do not want to integrate into Estonian society.
Yes and no. The (or, rather: another) problem is that this "integration" is more about assimilation. Russians are supposed to adopt Estonian language and culture, but this is not all there is to integration. Integration is supposed to work both ways: you give them some, they give you some. I don't, however, see this happening.
BTW, no one is speaking about the rights of finno-ugrian societies over the lake Peipsi. The territory is still under the Russia and they are integrating quite well - I am not well informed about them, but information from broadcasts television and radio suggests that they are now speaking only russian.
Yet again, you're confusing integration with assimilation.
Again I have to wonder, From Where Did You Get This Information? Estonian social workers and other workers who have to do a lot of communication (medicine, banking, etc.) have to speak at least estonian and russian. Nobody is going to stand on toess if the Russian is heard.
Mea culpa. I should have made it more clear that "Russian = Evil" is what the grandparent poster seems to think, not what everyone in Estonia thinks.
There was a study about educating in english, but you did not mention that the ones, who proposed most the english-only education were the local non-estonian speaking russians. Their logic being that it is not worth to learn estonian because Estonia is so small, but english speaking would have a lot of chances in Europe and, why not, also over the ocean.
Yeah, i guess i should have mentioned this, but i only remembered it after i had posted this. But i still don't think this makes any difference to what i said: Estonians are voluntarily destroying their own culture.
It isn't a local language when local people don't speak it.
First of all, i'd like to remind you that quite a few of the Russians (and other "aliens") living in Estonia were living there already before the Soviet occupation. It's a documented fact.
Secondly, all of them have been living in Estonia for years. I'd venture that quite a lot of them have been living there longer than you have. How come then that you are more local than they are?
They were sent to Estonia with one idea only - to destroy Estonian language culture and race.
Noone but yourselves can destroy your language. Looking at what's going on in Estonia today, you seem to be doing quite well at it. I mean, damn, it's pure evil if someone speaks Russian, yet you don't see any problem in you and many other Estonians speaking English. Don't you find it disturbing that quite a large number of Estonians would be willing to educate their children in English only, if they were given the chance?
We don't need to feel sorry for them nor accept them to our community. They are like bullets inside our wounds. In order to heal we need to get them out!
Oh yes you do have to integrate them into your society. Unless, of course, you don't want it to function properly. If you do actually want those high crime rates and other problems that arise from the current situation, then go on, keep discriminating them. But i don't really think it's a good idea.
Re:McLuhan wasn't exactly right.
on
We the Media
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· Score: 1
This was reinforced recently by the blogsters at the Democratic Convention. Few said anything of consequence. That what they transmitted was using new media didn't matter. Crap is crap.
McLuhan would, of course, say that it was crap precicely because it was transmitted using the blog medium: no sound, no video, probably no photos, either; only amateurish reporting in text only (note that i haven't read any of those bloggers, so i have no idea what i'm talking about). And that it was because those bloggers failed to understand that, because of its nature, the blog medium is better for discussing things than reporting. Slashdot (and "Slashdot groupthink"), of course, being a great example of this.
Slashdot Mirror
I haven't seen the movie, but i've read the book and it was by far the worst sci-fi book i had ever read. So, yes, it was unlike anything i had ever seen before.
I'd recommend what many others already have: read her books that'd stimulate her imagination. You'll find that many of these books are rather geeky in themselves. Don't let the System get her too early (Disney'll take care of that for you).
Rolling up your own stories is always a good idea. And i guess making up stories of heroic programmers shouldn't be that hard, either -- there's tons of IT lore out there; some of it must be suitable for a children's story. Use some fairytale as a model. Add some magic (shouldn't be hard -- computers are rather magical in themselves) and mystery (people typing magic words, etc), and you're ready to go.
I'm certainly gonna get a good night's sleep now. Thank you very much.
I predict that not a shit will change, at least not in the long run. There may be an initial strong reaction to this particular act of terror (after all, Putin's got to show that he's dealing with the Chechnyan problem), but no decisive action. Sure, Putin might bomb the Chechens, or drive them out of their homes, but that's nothing new. Russians been doing this for years now, but there has been no change for the better. And there won't be, as long as the people in charge of the operations aren't either competent or motivated enough to deal with the situation.
What would i do? I dunno. Genocide, while tempting (it's what Stalin did), isn't an option if you're (playing at being) a democratic country. Bombing the hell out of Chechnya hasn't given much results so far (if anything then it has given rise to radical Islam). Perhaps the situation would turn to better if they could get someone in charge who had real authority over the warlords that are running the place right now (get the majority to follow the leader, and eradicate the rebellious ones), and grant the republic some autonomy (some = enough to show that it's not a puppet regime). But that's a tad difficult to achieve if you don't negotiate, period (though even negotiations may not give a favourable result).
Oh, it's easy to read some social commentary into it. For example: "Set in a mythic version of the late 1930s, this movie is a stunning tribute to classic sci-fi serials, comics and pulp magazines of that era." To elaborate on this, you could, for instance, draw parallels between tributes to classic sci-fi and the increasingly popular retro-looking cars. And talk about how, unlike in the 50's, all these cars are computer generated, etc. Oh, and i won't even mention parallels between the world "then" and "now..."
(You can proceed to mod this lame joke down now)
Out of this whole thread, you single me out for modding offtopic. What is this, a pathetic attempt at poetic justice?
I have to confess, though, that i haven't really ever gotten around to reading the Psalms. They didn't seem interesting at that time, and i wasn't really desperate to read the whole darn book (I was more keen on getting to the Revelations ASAP).
He said: "God, do you live to spout out shit like that?"
I said: "Yes. I take it you haven't read the Bible," naturally referring to all those things that this God-character says in it.
There. Do i have to make it any more obvious?
I take it you haven't read the Bible?
Gah. Of course you're right, etc. And you know, i did actually even think of most of what you said, but it sort of went missing somewhere in the course of typing all that stuff i said. I guess i got kinda carried away with all these railroads (oh, look! Shiny things in the middle of Siberia!) and completely forgot to talk about what happened later.
Well, many people -- some of them scientists, some sci-fi authors and yet others something inbetween -- have actually claimed that if we ever managed to build an AI, there could be a great danger of it becoming schizoprenic due to all those forces having influence on it. Just as a 'uman would if it wasn't so ignorant of most of the stuff surrounding him (indeed, ignorance is bliss).
Good point. Something i should have thought of before hitting the reply button, not after.
So, what changes, pray tell me, did you expect to see? The only thing i could have imagined as being different was the view of Iraq -- with all those power stations and things having recently suffered from a war'n'all. But maybe there really hasn't been any change in this rescpect?
Now, taking this into consideration, the photo will yield more information. You can, for instance, quite clearly trace the route of the Trans-Siberian Railway (the narrow strip of lights running through most of Russia). In the US, the Western part was settled (by the Europeans, that is) much later than the Eastern part; as a consequence, the transportation infrastructure is less developed and it really shows (there are probably also differences in the landscape -- a city is more likely to be built in the plains that in the Great Rocky Mountains).
I don't think there's much difference between these two pictures. These lights generally represent larger cities or urban areas, but these don't usually appear (or disappear) that fast.
I'm not saying that what you said is wrong or stupid or anything, but in my experience, most (if not all) of the people who give me weird looks when i tell them i've read Joyce, have never actually read any of his books or have only read an excerpt of Ulysses from the high school World Literature reader.
The problem probably lies in all those piles of crap that has been written about Joyce. I bet all those academic types are just jelous that "the masses" have taken over most of their oh so sacred art, and most of these books and papers about Joyce are written solely for the purpose of scaring people and keeping them from reading his books :H
I think it's probably from Murphy's Law. Originally, it seems to have been titled simply "Official Project Stages."
Because "a widely held (mis)belief [that forms a part of an ideology]" -- and these are widely held beliefs, as "ignorant non-IT people" are still in majority -- is a myth in my book.
"Proprietary software" doesn't necessarily mean MS, though. He could just as well be talking about the merits of gcc over proprietary compilers, etc. Not that it changes anything, though.
Never underestimate the stupidity of other people. Including me.
I think that it is not too ironical to held this dispute on /.
No, it's not. What is ironic, however, is that we're (well, at least i am) complaining about how English is taking over, and yet we're doing it, gasp, in English. (OK, i do understand that it's a bit more appropriate to use English here, as someone might actually *read* this thread)
PS: May I ask, why have you replaced 'ü' by 'y' in your posting? The two characters are pronounced almost the same in swedish. Finnish people are not using 'ü' at all. But your comment was in in estonian...
First of all, if you haven't guessed it yet then i'm an Estonian. That's why i find holding this conversation in English so funny (well, that and my bizarre sense of humour).
Miks ma kasutan ü asemel y-d? See võis vist olla Johannes Aavik, kes ytles, et nii on õigem, sest ü on germaani laen jne. Teiseks on mulle kardetavasti halvasti mõjunud täpitähtedeta klaviatuuri kasutamine -- ole õnnelik, et ma õ asemel 6 ei kirjuta :H Kolmandaks -- ja see on tegelt vist peamine põhjus -- on ilmselt tegu järjekordse katsega millegipoolest teistest erineda*.
(Translation: The reason why i use 'y' instead of 'ü' is that this is supposedly more correct Estonian (because of the Fenno-Ugric roots'n'all). That and the bad effects of using a US keyboard. Oh, and i also think it's cool :)
* Kui nyyd järele mõelda, siis muudab see muuhulgas ka mu käekirja veidi loetavamaks...
Because i'm evil *grins* And because the n-parent (aka mikk) was being an idiot and thus deserved it.
This is definitely way it should not go and it makes me really worried :( ZZ
Eriti irooniline on seejuures, et kaks eestlast arutlevad nende probleemide yle (võrdlemisi kehvas) inglise keeles yhes Ameerika veebifoorumis.
You seem to be misinformed, Sir! Where did You get this as a 'documented fact'?
Troll? Maybe. Misinformed? Hardly. Just because i didn't mention any concrete numbers it doesn't mean i'm misinformed. Yeah, i know there weren't many Russians living in Estonia before the war. But my point was, that not all of the Russians living in Estonia are colonists.
The problem is that they are loyal to Russia and they do not want to integrate into Estonian society.
Yes and no. The (or, rather: another) problem is that this "integration" is more about assimilation. Russians are supposed to adopt Estonian language and culture, but this is not all there is to integration. Integration is supposed to work both ways: you give them some, they give you some. I don't, however, see this happening.
BTW, no one is speaking about the rights of finno-ugrian societies over the lake Peipsi. The territory is still under the Russia and they are integrating quite well - I am not well informed about them, but information from broadcasts television and radio suggests that they are now speaking only russian.
Yet again, you're confusing integration with assimilation.
Again I have to wonder, From Where Did You Get This Information? Estonian social workers and other workers who have to do a lot of communication (medicine, banking, etc.) have to speak at least estonian and russian. Nobody is going to stand on toess if the Russian is heard.
Mea culpa. I should have made it more clear that "Russian = Evil" is what the grandparent poster seems to think, not what everyone in Estonia thinks.
There was a study about educating in english, but you did not mention that the ones, who proposed most the english-only education were the local non-estonian speaking russians. Their logic being that it is not worth to learn estonian because Estonia is so small, but english speaking would have a lot of chances in Europe and, why not, also over the ocean.
Yeah, i guess i should have mentioned this, but i only remembered it after i had posted this. But i still don't think this makes any difference to what i said: Estonians are voluntarily destroying their own culture.
It isn't a local language when local people don't speak it.
First of all, i'd like to remind you that quite a few of the Russians (and other "aliens") living in Estonia were living there already before the Soviet occupation. It's a documented fact.
Secondly, all of them have been living in Estonia for years. I'd venture that quite a lot of them have been living there longer than you have. How come then that you are more local than they are? They were sent to Estonia with one idea only - to destroy Estonian language culture and race.
Noone but yourselves can destroy your language. Looking at what's going on in Estonia today, you seem to be doing quite well at it. I mean, damn, it's pure evil if someone speaks Russian, yet you don't see any problem in you and many other Estonians speaking English. Don't you find it disturbing that quite a large number of Estonians would be willing to educate their children in English only, if they were given the chance?
We don't need to feel sorry for them nor accept them to our community. They are like bullets inside our wounds. In order to heal we need to get them out!
Oh yes you do have to integrate them into your society. Unless, of course, you don't want it to function properly. If you do actually want those high crime rates and other problems that arise from the current situation, then go on, keep discriminating them. But i don't really think it's a good idea.
McLuhan would, of course, say that it was crap precicely because it was transmitted using the blog medium: no sound, no video, probably no photos, either; only amateurish reporting in text only (note that i haven't read any of those bloggers, so i have no idea what i'm talking about). And that it was because those bloggers failed to understand that, because of its nature, the blog medium is better for discussing things than reporting. Slashdot (and "Slashdot groupthink"), of course, being a great example of this.