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IT Myths

linuxwrangler writes "A special report in this week's InfoWorld tackles the six big myths in IT. Among the findings: server upgrades don't matter, 80 percent of corporate data is not on mainframes, C[IT]Os really do need technological savvy, most IT projects may be late or over budget but they don't fail, IT does scale and nearly all big shops do run multiple platforms."

380 comments

  1. Yay by Mawbid · · Score: 5, Funny

    So, no need to read the article, then?

    --
    Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
    1. Re:Yay by killjoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      " So, no need to read the article, then?"

      There is no need to article. Not because of slashdot but because it's just a few anecdotes put together as if they mean anything.

      It's a stupid fluff piece. Wake me when somebody does a decent study.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    2. Re:Yay by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      --That infoworld "article" has the worst page layout I've ever seen. What happened to putting in "Page 1 ... > Next / Previous" links?

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
  2. Ha ha, that's a good one by krog · · Score: 5, Funny

    IT does scale

    I got a big fat 503 Service Error that says you're wrong about this one!

    1. Re:Ha ha, that's a good one by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 3, Funny

      And I've got a slow, slashdotted Infoworld server to throw into the pot!

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  3. Least likely by qmchenry · · Score: 2, Funny

    Least likely upgrades... Replacing functioning hard drives

    Hmm.. unless their most likely upgrade is replacing the F1 key on their keyboard..

  4. Other IT Myths by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Funny
    Myth: You will make so much money babes will be hanging off of you.
    Reality: Chicks don't dig geeks, no matter how much money you make, besides, they know you'll spend it all on computers and techy toys instead of them.

    Myth: Computer wizards command respect
    Reality: Once the PHB figures you can do things you'll be buried in no time with stupid, menial tasks with the same priority as critical tasks.

    Myth: You'll continue learning as your employer sees it critical your skills are kept up to date and foots tuition and conference fees.
    Reality: As soon as you can't do something or drop dead from exhaustion, you'll be replaced by another victim fresh out of school (or your job will go offshore for 1/10 what you cost)

    Myth: Programming, constructing systems, et al are fun!
    Reality: Most of the projects will be as much fun as getting a new filling at the dentist (any fun you actually have will be against company policy.)

    Harsh Reality of IT Project Life Cycle

    Phase 1: Uncritical acceptance.

    Phase 2: Wild enthusiasm.

    Phase 3: Dejected disillusionment.

    Phase 4: Total confusion.

    Phase 5: Search for the guilty.

    Phase 6: Punishment of the innocent.

    Phase 7: Promotion of nonparticipants.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Other IT Myths by trybywrench · · Score: 4, Funny
      Harsh Reality of IT Project Life Cycle

      Phase 1: Uncritical acceptance.

      Phase 2: Wild enthusiasm.

      Phase 3: Dejected disillusionment.

      Phase 4: Total confusion.

      Phase 5: Search for the guilty.

      Phase 6: Punishment of the innocent.

      Phase 7: Promotion of nonparticipants.
      that is now hanging up in my cube. bless you.

      --
      I came to the datacenter drunk with a fake ID, don't you want to be just like me?
    2. Re:Other IT Myths by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Interesting
      that is now hanging up in my cube. bless you.

      This was haning in the Programming Office where I once worked. The word was it dated from the late 70's. That you and I identify with it today says something.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    3. Re:Other IT Myths by justkarl · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Myth: You will make so much money babes will be hanging off of you.
      Reality: Chicks don't dig geeks, no matter how much money you make, besides, they know you'll spend it all on computers and techy toys instead of them.


      Wrong again, friend.
      I know a girl who really digs geeky guys..not because of money, cars, or whatever- because she really clicks with their personalities: the outcasts, the ones who stay out of parties, the ones who don't know how to handle themselves in social situations. I know she's not the only one, too.

    4. Re:Other IT Myths by thanasakis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Quite correct. Would you also agree that one of the root causes of all these is that the profession is quite young. And because IMHO the situation is and will be relatively volatile in the following years, we have phenomena like these.
      In my country, a civil engineer cannot undertake major projects (like say a bridge) unless he/she has reached a certain "level" which is determined by his past projects and experience. So there is a natural flow that requires that younger engineers must start from the low and climb their way up. The real difference is that this mechanism is in place to prevent companies from hiring younger inexperienced engineers just to cut costs. And that's because there must be assurance that the bridge must be built correctly, or peoples lifes will be in danger.
      As time passes and our profession becomes equally crucial in many cases, I believe that the same problem will make its appearance. What we need to do is to get organized and support independent regulation authorities which will prevent companies from doing anything they think its cheaper.

      Of cource, before anything else, we ourselves must take our profession seriously because it is no longer a game.

    5. Re:Other IT Myths by Leroy_Brown242 · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Myth: You will make so much money babes will be hanging off of you.


      Actually, my girlfriend was actracted to me because of my geekyness. Most women (not girls) are atracted to guys who can hold a conversation. Not many people can do that better than a geek. ]:8}>

    6. Re:Other IT Myths by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The real difference is that this mechanism is in place to prevent companies from hiring younger inexperienced engineers just to cut costs.

      Ouch. That struck a nerve. Everyone who's seen companies hire Junior incompetents over Senior Engineers, raise your hand.

    7. Re:Other IT Myths by sql*kitten · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What we need to do is to get organized and support independent regulation authorities which will prevent companies from doing anything they think its cheaper.


      There is an organization in the UK, the Institute of Analyst Programmers, that bills itself as a professional organization for programmers. I am a member and every now and again I badger them about getting a royal whatever so members could qualify as Chartered Engineers (or whatever title), like the IEEE, the IMechE and so on.

      Their reply? Pursuing that is not in their members best interest, as most of 'em would fail to qualify and quit, leaving the IAP without any members and hence funding. There is a rival organization, the BCS, but their chartered status is like an MCSE, no-one bothers to get it, no employer ever demands it.

      Ultimately, it needs to be demonstrated to both programmers and employers that some sort of accreditation actually adds value, 'til then, it won't ever be accecpted. Face it, if a bridge collapses that matters, if the database is the wrong shade of mauve your PHB might get upset but really, who cares?

      Of course embedded is different, but that's often done by EEs who can get chartered.

    8. Re:Other IT Myths by daniil · · Score: 1

      I think it's probably from Murphy's Law. Originally, it seems to have been titled simply "Official Project Stages."

      --
      Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
    9. Re:Other IT Myths by cmstremi · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think it's probably from Murphy's Law.

      Close. Al Gore.

    10. Re:Other IT Myths by king-manic · · Score: 1

      Myth: You will make so much money babes will be hanging off of you.
      Reality: Chicks don't dig geeks, no matter how much money you make, besides, they know you'll spend it all on computers and techy toys instead of them.


      The girl I'm seeing likes geeks. She's a little viet hottie.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    11. Re:Other IT Myths by 0racle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ...like an MCSE, no-one bothers to get it, no employer ever demands it.

      Then its nothing like the MCSE. Well I don't know what its like in Britain, but here it is demanded by employers, often times a candidate will not even be considered if they don't have it. On top of that, everyone and their dog gets it and the only people that recognize it has no actual value past the line on a resume, are the ones who know what they're doing.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    12. Re:Other IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the ones who don't know how to handle themselves in social situations smell bad, talk about X new feature in X new product. Whine about the government and patient laws, and have a house that could act as a tour for the history of the pc? Yea, chicks dig that.

    13. Re:Other IT Myths by Zangief · · Score: 0, Offtopic


      Have you read Asimov's lost masterpiece? [homeip.net]


      How is "The end of the eternity" a lost masterpiece? I readed it a lot of years ago, and, while I agree it is a great book, it is by no means "lost". That sounds like the book was found recently and published postmortem.

      I don't get it.

    14. Re:Other IT Myths by AKAImBatman · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      1. It was apparently out of print for many years and has only been reprinted fairly recently.

      2. Almost no one here knows anything that Asimov wrote other than his Robot works.

      "Lost" may be stretching it slightly, but then I don't have a whole lot of space in 120 characters. :-)

    15. Re:Other IT Myths by Aggrajag · · Score: 1

      Wasn't this list on "Work is Hell" by Matt Groening?

    16. Re:Other IT Myths by Zangief · · Score: 1

      I get it now. Cool sig.

    17. Re:Other IT Myths by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      THe version I use has a different #4. Panic.

    18. Re:Other IT Myths by Everleet · · Score: 3, Funny
      guys who can hold a conversation. Not many people can do that better than a geek

      *rolling on floor snickering*
      We can hold conversations with one another (after the appropriate bonding rituals of course), but certainly not with...people...

      --
      It's tragic. Laugh.
    19. Re:Other IT Myths by vsprintf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Phase 7: Promotion of nonparticipants.

      In our company, phase 7 is awards for the managers.

    20. Re:Other IT Myths by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hmm it's virtually the other way around here.. the MCSE is seen as so worthless that anyone who has to flash it around clearly hasn't go any real qualifications to fall back on, so they're not considered.

      It didn't help the last place I worked the MCSE we hired didn't know squat about Windows, let alone general administration. I think he just kept re-taking the original the exam until he passed.

    21. Re:Other IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mine says...

      4. Total confusion; Panic

    22. Re:Other IT Myths by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      So what happens to the folks that have an MCSE, MCSD and a MCDBA certification?

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    23. Re:Other IT Myths by vsprintf · · Score: 1

      Ouch. That struck a nerve. Everyone who's seen companies hire Junior incompetents over Senior Engineers, raise your hand.

      I've seen companies retain Junior incompetents over Senior Engineers. Our new management's philosophy is that seniority or length of service has no weight. Apparently, salary does, and it's a negative weight. Now, it often takes three people to do the work one was doing before. Oh well, management will get bonuses for lowering the average salary - that's all that really matters.

    24. Re:Other IT Myths by mbourgon · · Score: 1

      Not much... the only difference between the three is, potentially one test, and an MCSE can take 1 extra test and get the D/DBA as well.

      MCDBA might gain a little more respect because it's got more letters, but MCSEs are useless. When an 8-year-old can pass it, it becomes meaningless. What did my old boss call it? "Paper experience"

      --
      "Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
    25. Re:Other IT Myths by mbourgon · · Score: 1

      Where do you live? Here in the US, at least among IT professionals (PHBs need not apply), it's regarded as a waste of time/money/paper. I've actually seen it count against someone.

      --
      "Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
    26. Re:Other IT Myths by mdfst13 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most IT professionals are hired by PHBs, not other IT professionals. Yes, IT professionals know that an MCSE is worthless. The problem is that PHBs do not. In government jobs, a certification is almost a requirement.

    27. Re:Other IT Myths by nathanh · · Score: 4, Funny
      Ouch. That struck a nerve. Everyone who's seen companies hire Junior incompetents over Senior Engineers, raise your hand.

      I sense a great disturbance in the force. As if millions of hands raised in unison.

    28. Re:Other IT Myths by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      What's the difference?

    29. Re:Other IT Myths by gnu-generation-one · · Score: 1

      "...like an MCSE, no-one bothers to get it, no employer ever demands it.
      Then its nothing like the MCSE. Well I don't know what its like in Britain, but here it is demanded by employers, often times a candidate will not even be considered if they don't have it. On top of that, everyone and their dog gets it and the only people that recognize it has no actual value past the line on a resume, are the ones who know what they're doing.
      "

      Haha.

      Indeed, nothing like Britain.

      We have an MCSE at our office, and occasionally laugh at him for being as utterly cynical as the rest of us about MS products.

      If i interviewed someone with an MCSE, I'd probably have to leave the room to laugh. If someone chose an MCSE over me at an interview, you just know I'd be wanting to leave within the first year.

      Face it, you work for the MCSE program, and just write opportune crap like that with the hope that it will become "accepted wisdom" by slashdotters who "saw it somewhere", and forgot that it was just another inane comment on the web.

      The MCSE... it has no clothes...

      Good luck selling your "certification".

    30. Re:Other IT Myths by foobsr · · Score: 1

      This was hanging in the Programming Office where I once worked. The word was it dated from the late 70's. That you and I identify with it today says something.

      There seems to be resistance with regard to learning. Identify area of expertise (which|what) and degree of those in charge. Hmmm, ...

      CC.

      --
      TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
    31. Re:Other IT Myths by SoSueMe · · Score: 1

      I was really fortunate to be able to hire some extremely qualified staff in the last few years.
      Each of them have brought insights which can only be gained through time.
      They have prevented mistakes being made or propogated by being able to recognize the pitfalls.

      The only difficulty I have is keeping them motivated in the face of roadblocks and protecting them from the high level of beaurocracy.

      You see, we're a Gov't tech shop.

    32. Re:Other IT Myths by vsprintf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Point taken, but when you're in an auditorium, and the principal manager of a death march is given an award for documenting the *lessons learned* (which are all related to incompetent or untrained IT staff), it's even worse than seeing him promoted. Sometimes I wonder why IT people don't go postal.

    33. Re:Other IT Myths by SoSueMe · · Score: 1

      Cripes.
      I've seen it worse than that.
      I've seen people so fresh out of tech "training" be hired and then given the courses to GET the bloody MCSE!

      Makes me ill just thinking about it.

    34. Re:Other IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hope you wear a rubber!

    35. Re:Other IT Myths by carlislematthew · · Score: 1
      In some cases this is very much the case. However, often it is also the case that "senior" engineers sitting on high salaries have no incentive to try hard or achieve more. They just sit there. Some senior devs are just great - they produce a lot, and they constantly work hard... The rest are clock punchers with no incentive to earn more than the 80-100K they're currently earning.

      Now, young and inexperienced developers fall into 2 categories: potential, no potential. If you can find the ones with potential, then within a couple of years they'll be producing almost (or more) as much as your beloved senior developers, except they work twice as hard and you pay them less because salary.com says they're worth less. As a manager with a given budget (yes, BUDGET, the money supply is limited) you have to figure out how to get the most productivity out of a group of developers. All junior is not good. All senior is worse. You need a mix of some senior and some junior.

      I generalize, of course, but I have experience of exactly this situation in a team of developers that I manage. Yes, I said "manage". Get over it. I'm your PHB. Kneel before me!!!!

      Finally, I should say that I used to be a developer (and still dabble occasionally). Been there, done that. If you're smart enough you'll get bored too. Trust me. If you think you're "constantly learning new things" just because the syntax just changed again, then you won't understand what I'm talking about.

    36. Re:Other IT Myths by vsprintf · · Score: 1

      I was really fortunate to be able to hire some extremely qualified staff in the last few years. Each of them have brought insights which can only be gained through time.

      I am happy to hear that. Really. Many good people are simply being discarded when they have much to offer.

      You see, we're a Gov't tech shop.

      Well, I currently work for a government contractor. Different motives for different folks, I guess.

    37. Re:Other IT Myths by carlislematthew · · Score: 1
      I am a PHB. I interview development candidates all the time. In fact, we're currently hiring. When candidates say they've done whatever certificate it means nothing to me. I ask what projects they undertook, what they learned, etc etc. I test their knowledge in the interview anyway - the certificate means nothing!

      The thing that means the most to me - absolutely sincerely - is when someone talks about programming in basic, pascal, or assembly language when they were 10. Now THOSE people are really into programming and their brain was hard-wired at an early age. I'll hire THEM in a heartbeat.

    38. Re:Other IT Myths by maxpublic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most women (not girls) are atracted to guys who can hold a conversation.

      A geek is no more likely to be able to hold an intelligent conversation than any other person. They just *sound* smarter because their chosen topics of conversation revolve around technical items rather than football, or cars.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    39. Re:Other IT Myths by danharan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I started learning basic 20 years ago at age 9. I liked it but I loved piano and politics.

      Three and a half years ago, I got back into programming with PHP, and what a difference that makes (I had to laugh when I saw a one-line loop). Moved on to Java, SQL (Oracle, MySQL), and now Python.

      One of the surprising things I found after getting a Java certification was how useful it was. I was getting faster at coding, not looking up things in the javadocs as often. And being forced to memorize parts of the core libraries -even if I promptly forgot half of it- means I know exactly where to look, and I won't waste time writing util classes for stuff that already exists. I've actually erased hundreds of lines at a time of code that was duplicating core lib. functionalities... :(

      I don't disagree with your main point- given a choice between a person that likes to think like a programmer and a person with a certificate, I'd choose the programmer. However if you can find people that like programming and have solid knowledge in one area, do consider it a bonus :)

      --
      Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
    40. Re:Other IT Myths by arose · · Score: 2, Funny
      talk about X new feature in X new product. Whine about the government and patient laws, and have a house that could act as a tour for the history of the pc
      All good traits in people of either gender.
      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    41. Re:Other IT Myths by vsprintf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      However, often it is also the case that "senior" engineers sitting on high salaries have no incentive to try hard or achieve more. They just sit there.

      Yes, there is often deadweight in the senior engineering positions, but line management has no idea who it is. The best bullshitters are considered to be the best engineers by MIS-management.

      Now, young and inexperienced developers fall into 2 categories: potential, no potential. If you can find the ones with potential, then within a couple of years they'll be producing almost (or more) as much as your beloved senior developers

      That's incorrect in a situation that requires institutional memory. I'd guess it would take 3-4 years, by which time training the developer would have negated any supposed cost savings, and the new developer would now be senior and making a much larger salary. OJT by MIS-management.

      I generalize, of course, but I have experience of exactly this situation in a team of developers that I manage. Yes, I said "manage". Get over it. I'm your PHB. Kneel before me!!!!

      You've already demonstrated your MIS-conception of the issue - no need to overdo it.

    42. Re:Other IT Myths by beakburke · · Score: 1

      I read that something similar used to be posted at the desk of one CIA humint handler during the 70s (relating to intelligence operations).

      --
      ----- Question authority, but not ours. Hate the man, but we're not him.
    43. Re:Other IT Myths by goon · · Score: 2, Insightful
      '... members could qualify as Chartered Engineers (or whatever title), like the IEEE, the IMechE ...'

      could the qualification/licensing have to do with legal requirements under law?

      • You need permits to build bridges (CE)

      • you need to submit a license to mass produce an electrical device (EE) or vehicle (ME, AE)
        release a pharmaceutical (PHC, CE)?

      Until Tom dick and harry start getting injured or die as a result of coding errors I suspect this is the real reason software engineers do not require licensing. Licensing is the result of saftey requirements enfoced by legislation. Hence the guarded professions: EE, ME, CE, MD, MS, pilots, plumbers etc where a measurable standard must be met.

      Until then software design going to be the lowest price, fastest turn around: not necessarily with the highest quality or safety in mind. Read this post to see what I mean.

      --
      peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
    44. Re:Other IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Myth: Programming, constructing systems, et al are fun!
      Surely you mean etc!

    45. Re:Other IT Myths by dargaud · · Score: 1
      members could qualify as Chartered Engineers (or whatever title)
      And what would the qualification be ? And 2 years later when tech has advanced and you are no longer competent in that specific field, what's the use of a validation ?

      If you take a roman engineer or a cathedral architect and gave him concrete blocks instead of stones, he'll build you a probably safe bridge / cathedral. The tech in building doesn't change much, in IT it changes too fast for any kind of certification. Sure, some methods (Merise, Extreme programming...) stay a while but even this is counted only in years.

      Until we have programming languages and APIs and and OSes and interfaces that stay stable for decades there will be no way to get stable certification.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    46. Re:Other IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, that list works for any endeavor not just IT. I have worked in several engineering fields and find this to be just as true in Civil Engineering as it is in Electrical Engineering... I am betting it is a universal truth.

    47. Re:Other IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      some might point out that a problem with implementing experience requirements is that "experience" translates into direct time. Then you end up with senior incompetents who through either a lack of wanting to learn or merely just not having the skill and aptitude to do a good job.

      Then on the other end you get junior employees that are great assets to your team. Maybe they just have a lot of experience before school (or have no formal school) or they are specialized in the area your team is working with. Elitism combined with a desire to uphold the status quo results in the loss of these folk while the top heavy senior "engineers" absorb more money.

      There is no magical written formula for weeding out incompetents but management that is sold by bullshit is a good clue of a bad organization.

      The earlier comment on other engineering fields put it best. That since lives depended upon it, there is no room for incompetents to build bridges. The problem with IT is that competence is judged by these things:

      1. degrees degrees
      2. certifications
      3. Time in a paying role similar to what you do now
      4. Bullshit artistry, the art of acting like you know everything and that if someone hasn't coded out some crap they must not know anything at all
      5. Hypocrisy
      The key here is to find out some small tidbit of information on how something works then the next day and thereafter present yourself as having always known this and it being "common sense." Also make sure to interrupt a lot in a sort of "me me me, call on me teacher" effort to thwart any possible attempt by others to gain information from those who really know it. You are the center of attention and no one should forget it.

      Also remember that whatever formal name you call it by, engineering is about a full lifecycle view of creating something. Simply coding some pr0n automation does not make you a programmer. And therefore you certainly are NOT a developer. That means you don't even factor anywhere close by when looking for an engineer. Use what has proven to work? Ask experts for their advise? Nah, just waste everyone elses time for your personal gain.

      Basically its like this, while other engineers are building bridges, working together, planning, asking around, testing, and using the lessons of what works and what doesn't (meaning they don't reinvent the wheel and start fron scratch)... the software "engineers" are too busy getting in pissing matches and impressing each other with buzz words and the ability to not need documented plans and requirements. Software Engineering is a joke as a whole simply because it is not engineering. Engineering is not ever promoted and bad management is the rule rather than the exception.

    48. Re:Other IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      degrees and certifications are the beginning... both are supposed to certify that you are competent in some specialized field of study... key word is study. Short of CCIE I don't know of any good test that does a decent job of requiring the tester to have a well founded general knowledge of that field (networking) along with real experience in both the general and specific (Cisco equipment) area.

      The kind of arrogance that believes that the particular way they heard something is the rule of law. No critical thought is applied by them... its much like that scene in "Good Will Hunting" where the punk is shown how little he really knows about his favorite brag subject. Real competence comes when you learn what works and doesn't and WHY through real experience. A degree these days does not provide anything but theory and from what I have seen it is not good theory at all. I focus on learning, adapting, and getting the job done right. I expect my employees to do the same. I am not impressed, nor am I turned off by the presence of degrees and certifications. I do not allow idiots to make decisions. For example: I would fire the person that changed a production database schema for a temporary need to note changes (as opposed to writing them down). I would also fire people who stole ideas that were discussed in good faith to work out a solution. Incompetence is not JUST the technical aspects. Putting yourself above the team is the best way to get fired. Work with others, use what works, avoid the problems that 1000's of others already know to avoid.

    49. Re:Other IT Myths by Demonspawn · · Score: 1

      I've applied to a good number of IT jobs where I wanted to send in a resume where I listed my only qualification as:

      1. I am smart enough to know that it is impossible to have 5 years of experience with an operating system that has only been out for 4 years.

      As early as 2002 I saw jobs requesting 5 years of experience with W2K. I even had one recruiter refuse to forward my app to the company since I refused to lie and say I had 36 months of experience with W2K (this was back when it had only been out for lil over 25-26 months).

      More reciently, I saw a job app requiring a CCNA, but being 'close' to a CCIE. They wanted someone with 2-3 years experience.... bloody idiots.

      --Demonspawn

    50. Re:Other IT Myths by vsprintf · · Score: 1

      Was there a point to that uninformed, meandering rant except that you dislike software people and senior people? If so, please summarize it in coherent English. Thanks.

    51. Re:Other IT Myths by sql*kitten · · Score: 1

      Until we have programming languages and APIs and and OSes and interfaces that stay stable for decades there will be no way to get stable certification.

      Kid, it ain't about languages and APIs and whatnot. Algorithms are algorithms, you can implement anything you want in any Turing-complete language. Once you're halfway competent, you can pick up any programming language easily, it's just a notation for the algorithms and data structures, that's all. Read some Knuth, you'll see that the fundamentals are already well-understood and don't change much. The many disasters in IT projects are caused by people who fixate on what programming language, OS, middleware, etc to use, and don't approach the problem as a real systems analyst would. Jump straight in and start coding and you're bound to run into problems.

    52. Re:Other IT Myths by Martin+Spamer · · Score: 1


      I'm a UK Software Engineer and I've only been asked if I had any MS-Certification once. My reply was that since I have a BSc(Hons) from the most prestigous IT school in the country, it was rather like asking a Doctor if he had a first aid certificate.

      The only people that bother with them in the UK are the desperate unemployed conned into paying for a Home-Study IT qualification.

    53. Re:Other IT Myths by dargaud · · Score: 1
      I've read the entire first volume of Knuth, so your analogy falls cold on me (not that I've done all the exercises though...). Still, after the theory you have to go to the practice step and that's where you hit the wall of API / language etc incompatibilities. It would be like saying: "if you've studied architecture you can build anything". Not so. Like they say:
      "Software Engineering is that part of Computer Science which is too difficult for the Computer Scientist." --F. L. Bauer.
      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
  5. Never trust these glossy magazine articles... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... they are usually pusing something on behalf of their advertisers.

    1. Re:Never trust these glossy magazine articles... by mbourgon · · Score: 1

      *ROFL* And who modded this up as Insightful? They get +5, funny, too!

      --
      "Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
    2. Re:Never trust these glossy magazine articles... by e7 · · Score: 1

      It's okay coz I'm running Adblock. Even if they convince me to buy garbage, I won't know who to buy it from.

      --
      Corollary to Moore's Law: The IQ of new computer owners is declining.
  6. Mixed enterprise environments by revscat · · Score: 5, Informative

    Where I work we run ATG Dynamo for our servlet container (Linux on staging, Solaris on production), AS/400 for our core data, SQL Server for presentation tier data, .NET for our Intranet, and until very recently a single Alpha box took care of all of our credit card processing. That little box just sat in a corner and did its job, day in, day out, taking care of thousands of requests per day, and we never had to touch it. I loved that thing.

    So back on topic: Yes, large, successful systems do, in fact, use mixed systems. In fact, the only place that I have worked that used the same platform for all systems were typically smaller operations; large companies rarely are able to achieve such synchrony, and I'm not sure it's even worth the effort.

    (BTW: To give you a clue who I work for, our CEO is Mr. Burns. No, really.)

    1. Re:Mixed enterprise environments by Compholio · · Score: 1

      Even the article agrees that large companies are mixed, the poster got it wrong. Article: "Reality: This 'myth' is closer to fact than fiction"

    2. Re:Mixed enterprise environments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (BTW: To give you a clue who I work for, our CEO is Mr. Burns. No, really.)

      Wow! You mean you work for Dow Corning? No? Oh, that was a Mrs Burns there... how about Victoria's Secret? Oh, another Mrs. Burns... and she recently retired. Hmmm.. how about Symmetry Medical? Or Dana Corp? Uh, perhaps A+ Conferencing? Or EntreMed?

      Okay, I know it is Nick Burns you are talking about... Oh, and you're welcome!

    3. Re:Mixed enterprise environments by Bingo+Foo · · Score: 4, Funny

      With a name like "Nick Burns," he'll never be CEO of Gillette....

      --
      taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
    4. Re:Mixed enterprise environments by Bnugent66 · · Score: 0

      I just can't believe your ATG Dynamo Server is running so flawlessly. Ours has turned into a bad kitchen experiment with every ingrediant off the shelf thrown in. Then with a little customization, some glazing techniques, then a couple stops at the blender, our little atg server tastes as bad as it looks. It's so bad now, our dogs won't get near it.

    5. Re:Mixed enterprise environments by makohund · · Score: 1

      Maybe not, but he could always be the "Company Computer Guy".

      Did I just say that?

    6. Re:Mixed enterprise environments by gabrieltss · · Score: 1


      Where I work we run ATG Dynamo for our servlet container (Linux on staging, Solaris on production), AS/400 for our core data, SQL Server for presentation tier data, .NET for our Intranet, and until very recently a single Alpha box took care of all of our credit card processing. That little box just sat in a corner and did its job, day in, day out, taking care of thousands of requests per day, and we never had to touch it. I loved that thing.


      We use ATG Dynamo (5.1.1) (working on an ATG 6.4 udgrade) as well but we use Solaris on our staging and production environments. We use the AS/400 as well for our backend system. But we use Oracle for our tier data for the front end. Using a "home grown" data propagation to do the data pushes from the AS/400 to Oracle. Although we are moving towards using Webmethods more.

      We use Linux for A LOT of smaller things. We now have a multi-rack SUN Starfire system all running Red Hat Linux EE for R&D. Unfortunately we use Windows 2K and Windows XP on our workstations for development. God I hate Windows! But it's the corporate Desktop...

      --
      The Truth is a Virus!!!
    7. Re:Mixed enterprise environments by lostguy · · Score: 1

      You're obviously not hiring enough consultants. Dynamo works better the more consultants you throw at it.

  7. Oh God my eyes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Non-babyshit color scheme.

    Now, anyone that feels like calling me a karma whore is an idiot. I posted this AC. Eat it.

    1. Re:Oh God my eyes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Karma whore! ;-)

    2. Re:Oh God my eyes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The green is no better.

    3. Re:Oh God my eyes! by duggy_92127 · · Score: 0

      Honestly, I've never understood all the whining about the Slashdot color schemes. I'm not colorblind or anything, and I completely fail to even notice the colors of the bars on the screen. And how can anybody say "Oh God my eyes!" about BEIGE? Seriously, if the Slashdot colors are that important to you, just slowly back away from the computer and go outside for a while. Sheesh.

      Doug

    4. Re:Oh God my eyes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you. So much.

  8. Server upgrades _do_ matter by ianbnet · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At least in some cases.

    I would never buy a server based on the ease with which I could replace a processor, but for my file servers -- both dedicated NAS boxes and Windows server machines -- upgrading things like storage space is critical. Being able to expand RAID arrays, replace disks (with larger models) individually or a few at a time, etc etc...

    In storage, anyway, unless you are running an extremely predictible environment, upgradeability is one of the first things I look at.

    --
    --------------------- -me, Crusher of those who are Foolish (don't be foolish)
    1. Re:Server upgrades _do_ matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Toll. Und jetzt halt gottverdammtnochmal die Fresse, du vertrottelter Haufen Scheisse.

    2. Re:Server upgrades _do_ matter by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well hotswapping disks is a feature of a RAID server, I wouldn't call that "upgrading".

      I'd consider "upgrading" as far as this article is about, to be something like moving everything from Windows 2000 server to Windows 2003 for increased productivity and synnergy and reverse diagonal compatibility. (Or Slackware 9 to 10, or whatever)

      Or replacing all your P3 Xeon servers with P4 Xeon servers because the box says they make the internet faster, etc.

      Or any other such case where it wain't broke, but you still fixed it!

      In the business world, 10% growth per annum is pretty huge. So your server needs probably keep in step with that somewhat. If your server process 1000 transactions a day now, chances are good it's going to be processing 1000 transactions a day in a year. So doubling its processing capacity every year with the latest round of tech isn't logical.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    3. Re:Server upgrades _do_ matter by red+floyd · · Score: 2, Funny

      P4 Xeon servers because the box says they make the internet faster,

      But they do! Those cute little aliens in the commercials proved it!

      --
      The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
    4. Re:Server upgrades _do_ matter by MacGabhain · · Score: 1
      We used a 4-processor, 2GB Sun box for an application server which, after a while, simply had too many applications running on it. Upgrade to an 8-processor 4GB box was a snap with almost zero downtime (good for a production box accessed 24/7) had everything running smooth as silk.

      I really hate to think what replacing the box would have entailed, especially since we no longer knew who maintained some of the legacy applications running on it.

      The idea that server upgrades are never done is complete horseshit.

    5. Re:Server upgrades _do_ matter by LinuxHam · · Score: 1

      upgrading things like storage space is critical. Being able to expand RAID arrays (etc)"

      This just struck me as weird, as I'm on the tail end of a 2+ year server consolidation project and we now have over 40TB on SAN. We buy servers with 2 hot plug bays and a RAID controller. "Storage" is something that appears on the box after we submit some paperwork! Your comment should read, "extremely predictable (or modern) environment".

      With dozens of VMWare servers and a few blade chassis, we (well, the cabling group) has to actually touch some sort of cable only once every two dozen server builds or so. The ancient art of "racking and jacking" is becoming more like "copy a 4GB file" and "drag a drop a MAC address on an OS build profile."

      --
      Intelligent Life on Earth
    6. Re:Server upgrades _do_ matter by Vlad_the_Inhaler · · Score: 1

      In the Intel/AMD world, you can change PCI cards or storage easily. Swapping a processor is far more difficult because the socket layout changes every few months and will be incompatable. Adding memory is somewhere in between. If your server runs a recent version of Windows, major changes may well be rejected anyway.

      In the Intel/AMD world, it is usually cheaper to buy a new server than perform a major upgrade on an existing one. We all know that and I suspect the data behind 'Myth 1' - inasfar as it is not just anecdotal - comes from that area.

      I work on mainframes and the situation is a bit different there. Processor speed is governed by a 'key tape'. If you want the processor(s) to run faster then you buy a faster tape which removes the software brakes deep in the OS. This costs serious money. Bypassing that coding is a violation of service/licensing agreements.

      The advantage for the customer is that it takes seconds and does not require a reboot.

      The advantage for the vendor is that they can supply one model for a large range of customers and the customers pay according to their needs.

      The lifetime of one of these beasts is around 7-8 years so you will almost certainly want to change something.

      The other obvious upgrade on the mainframes is that of storage, Disc or Tape. Virtually all of the upgrades I have been involved with were storage or Key Tape.

      --
      Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
  9. Outsourcing by guyjr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What about "outsourcing doesn't work", at least when it comes to software development projects.

    I've been a developer for close to 10 years now, am an expert in my field (not afraid to admit it), and of course, always have more to learn. I have never, in those 10 years, been involved in a project that was clearly specified enough, such that one could turn that project over to a team situated halfway around the world, and without much interaction on the part of management, expect a final product that even closely resembles the expectations of said managers.

    Anybody out there ever been involved in a successful software project, much less outsourced one, where everybody was happy at the end of the day? By happy I mean the project was done, delivered, closed up, move on to the next big thing.

    1. Re:Outsourcing by The+Bungi · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Well, it depends on the situation I suppose. I've seen projects that were outsourced and everyone let go, only to be re-hired later (as contractors, at half the rate) to bring it under control and the outsourcing company let go.

      Ultimately I guess outsourcing is about as much hit and miss as not, but with the slight difference that you probably have much more control when the project is not half a world away.

    2. Re:Outsourcing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I saw an outsourcing project succeed. I was working for a company developing financial software. Against the advice of most of his staff, a senior manager outsourced a critical product to a firm in India. The product ended up being about six months late and cost the company several million dollars. It was also completely unusable. It was scraped and a new version was developed internally. But, by that time it had missed the market window. Though it was deployed, it was eventually withdrawn from the market.

      So, how was it a success? The senior manager was sacked.

    3. Re:Outsourcing by metlin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hmm, outsourcing works depending on what is it that you do, and who is it that you outsource to.

      Often times, the outsourcing decisions are last minute spur of the moment decisions, and the management does not go into the pains of choosing a good company to do the work for you.

      However, there have been several instances where outsourcing has been proven to be good, and effective -- and these are the cases when the managers have taken the pains of going to the offshore development centres and talked to the people.

      And ofcourse, there have been several more instances where this has NOT been the case, but this is once again a bad management decision or a poor choice. Besides, there are several areas where outsourcing does make a lot of sense, too.

      Hence, I would not blindly write off outsourcing, however I would say that there are situations and circumstances where it does not make sense.

    4. Re:Outsourcing by ecrips · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Anybody out there ever been involved in a successful software project, much less outsourced one, where everybody was happy at the end of the day? By happy I mean the project was done, delivered, closed up, move on to the next big thing.

      Funny you should say that. I recently wrote an Access database for a client to be run in Niambia. And it shipped about a month ago, and we've heard no complaints. Admittedly we've heard absolutely nothing from Niambia, but the management back here in England is happy about it so as far as we're conserned it's job done and onto the next project. Sometimes the client being a long way away can be a good thing :)

      Of course it was in partnership with Microsoft, so perhaps they're so embarassed about how awful Access is that they didn't dare complain :)

    5. Re:Outsourcing by bhima · · Score: 1

      I've been doing it for over fifteen, I haven't seen a clearly specificed project either

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    6. Re:Outsourcing by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Informative

      All my experiences with outsourcing was with outsourcing the QA and testing.

      You can give them the product, a list of parameters or check boxes, and get results back in a couple days.

      All the ease of building in regression testing, without all the work. And if the indians are cheaper than the time it would take me to design and implement the unit tests, then it's win-win according to PHBs.

      In general, I agree with you though.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    7. Re:Outsourcing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just finished a project for Genovia...

    8. Re:Outsourcing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their queen is freakin' HOT!

    9. Re:Outsourcing by gUmbi · · Score: 1


      Anybody out there ever been involved in a successful software project, much less outsourced one, where everybody was happy at the end of the day?


      Does 'Hello World!' count?

    10. Re:Outsourcing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Funny you should say that.. I've just been telling a friend how the happiest times for me (20 some years) were when I could deal with people capable of writing detailed requirement documents!

      That time ended when windows came around and with that 'an irrational exxuberance' set it. No, not financially, but more like brain damage. It seemed that once you gave people mice and guis things all fell apart and instead of requirements you would get more and more buzzwords, people that could think were replaced by mba's that didnt know that 'paint' was not a way of writing specs.

      You got much more (other people's) 'vision' to meet rather than criteria and 'solids' turned into guis.

      I've done 50+ complex systems end to end with just two failures in the bunch, so I sortof kindof know what I'm talking about when I say that I miss the hard-ass know-what-they-need-people.

      There truly once was a time when reading comprehension mattered and the tools almost did not. You _could actually once have great fun doing meaningful systems and you actually knew that you were done when you're done.

      Now every twit can script and write 'expressively', meaning not at all. So specs easily turn into goo and usually you dont get paid for eliminating that. Not that its easy to contain complexity with words, but most people I deal with today seem to not know that this ability is the very requirement for their positions.

      So you wind up trading your happiness in compensating for some fuzzy crew's unrealized messes.

      Not really fun anymore when its only the geek testing you do that's thrilling.

    11. Re:Outsourcing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You call that testing? I'm a software tester and I'm resisting the urge to throttle you...

      Uh, but anyways. Regression testing is indeed a good candidate for outsourcing. It's very simple and straight forward. A trained monkey can do it (ook ook). But please please tell me that's not all the testing you do. If it is, well congratulations, you have a product that seems to functionally match what you intended, but you have no clue how good the quality really is. Give me the "finished" program, your spec, and 10 minutes. I'll find something.

      A regression test is about the bare minimum of testing that should be done. It just proves that the program does what you intended, but says absolutely nothing about the very import "and no more" part. If you don't do the second part of testing, there is no telling what kind of effects can occur. If nothing but a regression has been done, there's almost certainly a bug in there that's going to cause critical damage to the customer in some way. Either the program's going to stop working, or worse, it'll trash the customer's data.

      Heck, for all you know the program might suddenly transfer their bank balance into the "Save Carrot Top's Career" fund. Do you really want to risk having that happen?

    12. Re:Outsourcing by red+floyd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Anybody out there ever been involved in a successful software project, much less outsourced one, where everybody was happy at the end of the day /me raises his hand

      I was on a project where EVERYTHING WENT RIGHT! The hardware guys talked to us software guys to find out what we needed, they told us what was and wasn't reasonable (AND WHY!!!), delivered decent docs.

      The hardware worked as advertised, the software work - port of about 250K lines of C code from Z8000 to 68K -- worked fine, and the project was finished on time and under budget, and went on to become one of the unsung success stories of the first Gulf War.

      Of course, right after that, we started the project from hell. The exact opposite. Buggy hardware, buggy development tools (anyone remember the i486SL and its shitty ICE?). Project wound up being incredibly late and flaky.

      --
      The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
    13. Re:Outsourcing by belroth · · Score: 1
      I've been doing it for over fifteen, I haven't seen a clearly specificed project either
      Specification? What is this strange thing of which you speak?

      I wouldn't know how to work on a project with clearly defined requirements - where is my scope for creative interpretation of vague ambiguous poorly written fantasy? Such a small part of my job is actual coding I might have to brush up some language skills instead of mystic interpretation. Pah!
      I'd know how to get my own back though - I'd just give them what they asked for, that would teach them.

      Seriously I've been in this game for twenty years now and the only spec I usually manage to work to is the one I pick out of the foetid mess I'm presented with.
      Very Seriously: if the client/users wouldn't take the time to try and help me understand what they needed, I really would give them what they'd asked for. It can be an effective LART but some refuse to learn.

      Twenty years without a spec, I could be in the wrong business...

      --
      I hereby inform you that I have NOT been required to provide any decryption keys.
    14. Re:Outsourcing by vsprintf · · Score: 1

      What about "outsourcing doesn't work", at least when it comes to software development projects.

      The myth would be "outsourcing works", but I get your point. If you've read the trade rags like Infoworld and Computerworld, you'll find the *success* stories are all the same. The company gets rid of most of its developers, but has to triple the work done in project management, design, and writing rock-solid requirements and test cases for acceptance testing. If anything needs to be changed or is disputed, the whole thing falls apart. The savings reported by *successful* outsourced projects are generally small (less than 20%, and those are assumed). The losses reported by failed outsourced projects are large (and easily documented from the recovery costs), and that's only from the companies that are willing to admit having failed.

    15. Re:Outsourcing by mini+me · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't know how to work on a project with clearly defined requirements - where is my scope for creative interpretation of vague ambiguous poorly written fantasy?

      Worse than that, I get my requirements in stages. This means I finish the first stage, everything looks good, then they give me the second stage. This usually means rewriting a lot of the original stage to accommodate the second part. Ad infinitum.

      Change is inevitable, but you'd think you'd want to get as much of the design into the original codebase as possible.

    16. Re:Outsourcing by michael_cain · · Score: 1
      The hardware guys talked to us software guys to find out what we needed...

      Good God, man! Tell me who your hardware people are so that they can be disciplined immediately. Cain's First Law of Design, especially for embedded systems, clearly states that the hardware must be designed without consulting the software people, at least one aspect of the design must be totally inappropriate to the problem, and the design must be such that any changes that make things better for the software people exceed the hardware budget. Bonus points are awarded for selecting components that have features that do not work as documented.

    17. Re:Outsourcing by crucini · · Score: 1

      I have no idea if it works, but I have seen the process, and it does not consist of throwing a spec over the wall and waiting for a year. What I've seen is Indian managers, in a building in the US with marketing/legal/bizdev/etc. The manager stays in close touch with the development office in India via phone and email. He is also in close touch with the Americans, which is easy since he's in the same building.

      Nothing would be gained by putting the developers in the US. You don't want marketing/legal/bizdev talking directly to programmers - you want them going through the manager.

      The process seems perfectly workable to me. If it's failing, that's not why.

    18. Re:Outsourcing by crucini · · Score: 1

      Good post - why don't you log in so your posts won't languish at 0? There is definitely a loss of clarity in the business world. If you stumble across any memo from the 1950's, for example, it is likely to be much better written than the business documents of today. And I agree, though I can't prove, that there is some linkage between this loss of clarity and the more powerful desktop tools available today.

    19. Re:Outsourcing by red+floyd · · Score: 1

      Yep. We used to use that to blackmail them. All in good fun, of course.

      --
      The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
    20. Re:Outsourcing by SoSueMe · · Score: 1

      Why do the words "Specification" and "Speculation" sound so similar?

    21. Re:Outsourcing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The PHB's I have worked for never define success clearly so conversely failure is never clearly defined. In order to get buy in the organization for significant funds to fund their team they have to commit to every must have feature that anyone at their level or higher in the organization mentions so that it all sounds good and right. In the end just enough work is put into each feature to show a screen or two to show that it was included but the system ends up being a useless incoherent mess due to lack of an initial clear focus and then from feature creep due to second guessing as the project progresses. THe PHB can claim sucess in the end by showing that he did everthing that everyone expected even though the system can't be used for meaningful work. Code small, code quickly and code alone.

    22. Re:Outsourcing by carlislematthew · · Score: 1
      20 years into it, I would have thought that you would have figured out that *YOU* were the one that was supposed to write the spec. It's the customers job to give vague and conflicting requirements. It's your job to get those requirements on paper, get a sign off and then move on.

      Customers don't provide specs. They don't think like that.

    23. Re:Outsourcing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was actually interested in hearing your response, as I work in a small shop and our testing is pretty pathetic. Unfortunately, there was no meat in your response. We all know the consequences of bad testing, but what is this next level of testing that is supposed to save us?

    24. Re:Outsourcing by TykeClone · · Score: 1
      How much of that is informal communications from e-mail (and even IM) creeping into how memos are done.

      I've seen documents at work typed up in the 1950's. These things were typed using an actual typewriter - a device without a backspace key. Being forced to slow down would have given the users a chance to think about their text in more detail than people do now.

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    25. Re:Outsourcing by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      You are obviously a manager, or by God I hope you are joking.

      Every one I have ever talked to would have much preferred it if marketing/legal/bizdev would have come over and actually talked to the people in the trenches. This fosters a mutual understanding and removes miscommunications.

      By having everyone communicate through managers only you get two results:

      1. You bloat up the managerial class, creating a huge bureaucracy.
      2. Misunderstandings between departments, leading to projects that seemed like a good idea to management becoming hated impediments to workflow to the actual workers.

      Of course, if your goal is to create jobs for paper MBAs then #1 is a feature, not a bug. This seems to be the trend these days, alas.

      Mart
      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    26. Re:Outsourcing by belroth · · Score: 1
      Change is inevitable, but you'd think you'd want to get as much of the design into the original codebase as possible.
      Yes, somehow despite years of experience you never quite give up the hope that "this time it'll be better". It's not an expectation you understand, just a dim hope.
      --
      I hereby inform you that I have NOT been required to provide any decryption keys.
    27. Re:Outsourcing by belroth · · Score: 1
      20 years into it, I would have thought that you would have figured out that *YOU* were the one that was supposed to write the spec. It's the customers job to give vague and conflicting requirements. It's your job to get those requirements on paper, get a sign off and then move on
      . As I said: Seriously I've been in this game for twenty years now and the only spec I usually manage to work to is the one I pick out of the foetid mess I'm presented with. which is pretty much what you said. Sign off is interesting - depending on the relationship (in house or not) sometimes I've had to resort to the classic memo/email : "Unless I hear to the contrary I will proceed on the basis that you agree with the detail of my communication dated the xx/xx/xx" - circulated to all and sundry, including various superiors. It's a last resort CYA scenario when you have to do something but nobody can agree what it is. Normally you start looking for a new job before that stage. I usually manage to get close enough to what the requirement should have been to get away with it, which may be lucky or not depending on whether you've worked with me :-)
      Remember the quote attributed to Grace Hopper: It's easier to ask forgiveness than get permission.
      Also success excuses most things.

      Customers don't provide specs. They don't think like that.
      Agreed, part of my job is psychoanalysis and counselling. I bring IT skills to the project, I don't expect the customer to have IT knowledge, I don't have business knowledge but I have to be able to understand enough of the requrement to re-write it and present back to the client as a basis for agreeing what is needed in the project.

      I remember one job where I was maintaining a report and found some bugs so that the numbers were wrong. When I informed the client of this I was told "Yes, we know but we like these numbers better, don't fix it" they used this report (with others) to run the company. Go figure.

      --
      I hereby inform you that I have NOT been required to provide any decryption keys.
    28. Re:Outsourcing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      In six years of developing, only one system I have worked on (about 8 months worth) could I describe as an unqualified success - client loved it, dealivered early, under budget.

      It also would have been perfect if it had been outsourced. The scope of the project - "we have this existing system that is on platforms that are no longer supported / available - rebuild it for us in new technologies, doing exactly the same thing, looking exactly how it does now".

      And I think the reason was that the scope was exactly defined - any time there was a problem, you could go and look at the existing system and see what it did, how it did it - and figure out how to do it under the newer technologies.

      The system moved from Dos Paradox, to VB (Three Tier OO) and MS SQL Server.

    29. Re:Outsourcing by crucini · · Score: 1

      Actually, I was referring to today's emails as "memos". I haven't seen a paper memo for a long time. But a former Atari engineer named Jed Margolin has an online archive of Atari email messages from the 80s-90s. Aside from the few users who wrote in ALL CAPS, I'm impressed by the quality of these messages. Maybe people raised on typewriters retained some interest in quality when they moved to computers.

    30. Re:Outsourcing by crucini · · Score: 1

      Maybe we are using the word "manager" differently, or maybe you have seen a lower quality of manager. Substitute "senior developer" if you like. Not a PHB or an MBA, but a seasoned programmer who can rapidly estimate how hard some proposed requirement is.

      I am a programmer, not a manager. There has to be some kind of filter between the "customers" (marketing/legal/bizdev) and the engineer. The customers have whims that often blow over in five minutes. When an engineer is deep in the implementation of X, he doesn't need to here that maybe we'll scrap X and move to Y. Especially since it probably won't happen.

      Some of the things engineers say can frighten or anger customers, because they're too literal. Likewise, the customers can cause the engineers heart palpitations with scary requirements that turn out to be trivial or simply disposable whims.

      Example: Imagine that QMX is a system that took 2 man-years to write and debug.
      Customer: I just signed this awesome deal. We're gonna need another QMX, let's call it ZMX. It would have ....

      After an hour of discussion, the manager understands that we don't need a new QMX; we just need to add about 10 features to QMX that make it look like a different thing. No need to expose the QMX coders to this turbulence.

      Remember, for every feature that makes it to the coders, two or three should be filtered out first. Likewise, when a coder says that "Our system sucks. It is fundamentally flawed and we should throw it out and start over," a seasoned technical manager knows this is normal and should not be passed on the customers. (All systems suck once a few years of cruft have accumulated.)

    31. Re:Outsourcing by TykeClone · · Score: 1
      I think that there's that as well as younger people who've almost never used an actual typewriter. I'm 33 and did take typing in high school (a requirement) - but I was using computers long before that. I can't imagine having to type an entire page without errors!

      I think that older people - people who had to use typewriters before computers likely put more thought into their memo text than someone like you or I would.

      I also think that in 15 years, someone might look back at text that we've typed and say how well thought out they are compared to what they might be using because how they've cut their teeth on IM and SMS text messaging. A short e-mail would seem like good prose next to "C U L8R"

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    32. Re:Outsourcing by NuzzleMySack · · Score: 1

      However, there have been several instances where outsourcing has been proven to be good, and effective...

      Like what? How about posting some URLs to related stories!

      Hence, I would not blindly write off outsourcing, however I would say that there are situations and circumstances where it does not make sense.

      How did this modded up to insightful without any actual examples or ancedotes?

    33. Re:Outsourcing by ph1ll · · Score: 1
      I second your commments.

      But, if it's any consolation, I think the whole offshoring thing is slowly being recognised for the fad it is (like "downsizing" in the early 90s).

      It's still taking longer for the pernicious management fad of outsourcing ("displace rather than decrease the risk/blame") to disappear, however.

      BTW, I have a similar resume to you and have worked on one (and only one!) system that was what I would consider a success. I still think this is one more than most people!

      --
      --- "We've always been at war with Eastasia."
    34. Re:Outsourcing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish I could tell you, but as far as I know, testing is universally in a sorry state. I think the next level begins with the second half I mentioned: "and no more". "Proving" that a program does what it is supposed to is relatively easy. "Proving" that it doesn't do more than that is practically impossible. It's an infinite problem. It's still worth a shot though.

      I think the major thing that needs to be done is to stop doing "functional" testing and start doing "state" testing. In other words, don't look at inputs and outputs, but actions and changes. Clicking button A causes change B to the state. This used to be hard to do, but as more and more programs start to run at a higher level, you're able to look at the state in userspace. Database backends, VMs and web services are things becoming more common in today's programs that give you a chance to look at the inner workings of the state without messy low-level kludges.

      Besides that, I think proof of correctness is a major development just waiting to be applied commercially. If you can spend days, or even just hours writing some math on a piece of paper to prove that a module is correct, it can save weeks of testing time. Proving an underlying module is correct can reduce testing complexity by orders of magnitude.

      I'm also looking at intelligent agents for testing. This goes along with the state testing. Rather than dumb automated scripts that look at inputs and outputs, I'm hoping to use a "smart" agent to compare the actual state to the expected state, and basically make sure the program's state is still sane.

      Those are my ideas. I seriously hope that I am not the first to think of these. Somebody out there must be studying QA in more depth that I have, and can probably come up with a better answer for what the next level is. Good luck finding them.

  10. Re:The biggest Myth is .... by qmchenry · · Score: 4, Funny

    Woah! You typed IT!
    No! I typed IT!
    Aargh! I typed IT again!
    Aaarrrrgghh.. run awaaaay..

  11. Multiple platforms? by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 5, Funny

    Of course, nearly everywhere I've worked has been a mix of 98, NT and 2000, not to mention 2000 Pro and 2000 Server variety all out the yinyang.

    I've even seen msdos and win3.11 once in awhile. This whole antitrust thing was blown out of proportion.

    1. Re:Multiple platforms? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We are running the following:

      Windows NT 4.0, ME, 2000 Pro, 2000 Server, XP, Gentoo Linux 2.4.26 and Gentoo Linux 2.6.7 on a total of 20 systems.

      Unfortuneately, I am the only IT person here.

      I just want to go home... sometime... please...

    2. Re:Multiple platforms? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean you don't run Windows Server 2003? You're behind the curve....

    3. Re:Multiple platforms? by arose · · Score: 1

      You have to stay positive. Think: no rent!

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
  12. _Did_ anyone ever get fired for buying IBM? by ianbnet · · Score: 4, Informative

    It seems like /. is the place to find out... if so, someone should write 'em and let them know ;)

    --
    --------------------- -me, Crusher of those who are Foolish (don't be foolish)
    1. Re:_Did_ anyone ever get fired for buying IBM? by TheOtherAgentM · · Score: 1

      IBM is the safe choice. It's kind of like choosing Microsoft unfortunately. You went with a big company. Not only do you not get fired, you make more money selling stuff like MS SQL Server . =)

    2. Re:_Did_ anyone ever get fired for buying IBM? by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Insightful
      It seems like /. is the place to find out... if so, someone should write 'em and let them know ;)

      Catch up with the times. s/IBM/Microsoft/

      The true tragedy is CIO's who think, because they've mastered Excel or Access, believe they've got a firm understanding of enterprise systems and make decisions based upon this belief. It'd be comic if it hadn't resulted in many a night's lost sleep shoring up disasters. Sometimes you've gotta leave to see how much you were suckered into sacrificing your life and health, trying to make a bad choice look good.

      I can't even remember all the times I nearly told someone off, with a lot of colorful language, in a meeting and quit. I do know at least once I was about a heartbeat from it and I still don't know why I didn't say what so desperately needed to be said.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    3. Re:_Did_ anyone ever get fired for buying IBM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe because MS and IBM products have a long history of working, and have large companies behind them and not .com startups whos support phone lines will be disconnected when your linux box wont boot in a year?

      I've tried to push linux in the area I'm in. But, frankly, the systems we sell will probably chug along for 10 or 20 years before being replaced. They want to know that there'll be a company behind them in 10 or 20 years.

      Hell, we have HP MPE running units out there that've been chugging along 10-15 years. HP is finally trying to kill off MPE, but put it on life support for another 5 or 10 years, because there's just too much stuff out there running it. In retrospect, it wasn't a bad choice, because 20 years later, HP is still around, and still going to give us another 10 years of life.

      (Heh, last week I had to call HP support because our 9000 series dev machine was acting wonky. The girl on the phone had no idea they sold such stuff. I read off the model and serial number, and she goes "is that a digital camera? a printer? a laptop? can you ship it to us if I give you an RMA number?" and I was like "NO, it's an enormous ass mainframe machine that weighs about 900 tons, now send out some techs".)

      Will linux be there in 10 years? Will it still be usable, or will we need to rewrite everything with each kernel release?

      "We the linux kernel gurus have decided that like ipchains before it, iptables is gay and we've written a completely new tool to accomplish the exact same thing in a different way". Sure sucks if you're the poor chump supporting linux-powered gateways and routers.

      Whatshisface in charge of kernel 2.6 has apparently decided that cryptoloop is "kindergarten" and is going to yank it from the *stable* kernel tree. Now, textbook perfect encryption or not, it sure sucks for people using it in production.

      Just examples, I really don't have anything against linux. I just know why it's not chosen for every single task, and it's not always because "everyones a big dum-dum". Though that's certainly the case sometimes.

      You need to look wayyyy down the road sometimes. That's why IBM standing behind linux is a big deal. People have faith IBM will be there in a decade. Will RedHat or Linspire be there too? Harder to say.

    4. Re:_Did_ anyone ever get fired for buying IBM? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Funny

      I know a second hand account. Apparently, a competitor of a company I worked for tended to be a bit impatient with their MIS Vice President. So they'd hire a new one, see no results in a short time, then fire him. Rinse and repeat. One of the VPs attempted a conversion to 100% IBM. He was sacked for his efforts.

    5. Re:_Did_ anyone ever get fired for buying IBM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to ask, and this is an honest question, why someone in your position can't select a given kernel version (say, 2.0.36 or something), and develop and deploy to that?

      Assuming your hardware requirements don't change (and it doesn't sound like that's likely), why bother recoding for a new kernel API, assuming that there were no design problems with the one you were coding to?

      The only drawback that I can see is the lack of commercial support, but if someone like IBM saw the demand there, why wouldn't they step up to the plate?

    6. Re:_Did_ anyone ever get fired for buying IBM? by TykeClone · · Score: 1
      Must've been nice fore you - since it was a competitor.

      Seriously though - how would you get anything done below that level. You'd be told to do one thing and shortly thereafter be told to do something else. That would suck.

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    7. Re:_Did_ anyone ever get fired for buying IBM? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      We were kind of small while our competitor was big, fat, and lazy. They'd decided that they were so far ahead in the market that they could get snooty about their position. Suffice it to say, we ate their lunch. :-)

    8. Re:_Did_ anyone ever get fired for buying IBM? by dbIII · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You need to look wayyyy down the road sometimes
      Way down the road you'll still have access to the current source code - just like there is with the big iron. Remember, Microsoft almost poineered the poorly documented hidden API closed source operating system - before them you mostly paid for hardware and support and got the software thrown in for the price.
      Will RedHat or Linspire be there too?
      They won't have to be.
    9. Re:_Did_ anyone ever get fired for buying IBM? by discogravy · · Score: 1
      Whatshisface in charge of kernel 2.6 has apparently decided that cryptoloop is "kindergarten" and is going to yank it from the *stable* kernel tree. Now, textbook perfect encryption or not, it sure sucks for people using it in production.

      If you're using 2.6 in production, you deserve anything you get, guy. I know companies still using the red hat 5.2 with 2.0 kernel (there's a company does that billing tracking for pay-per-view movies in hotels, for example.) I would consider anything that isn't very very far away from .0 (which the 2.6 IS NOT very far away from) to be beta at best. Maybe that's good enough for your desktop, and i'm sure that it has improvements that make the desktop better, but "ooh fast X-Windows!" isn't a big deal on a server without X11 on it.

      If you're building a product out of linux, you are building it and you are responsible for supporting it. Them's the breaks. Oh, you want bleeding edge and you want someone else to support it? Fucking send Linus a big check and say "we'll pay you a gajillion dollars to do this and do it right." Of course, he might not do it anyway. That's his right. And your right is to look at the license and find someone who _can_ and _will_ do it or just suck it up. Note that it's the open nature of the software that makes that possible at all. If some secret windows API that SP2 hands out or modifies or whatver breaks your nifty new program, you can call Microsoft, and hope that one day they will fix it, or you can hire someone to try to find what the new API is expecting your program to do and fix your program around it, but that's going to be not fun and not cheap.

  13. Myth seven by Rev.LoveJoy · · Score: 5, Funny
    Reading slashdot helps me at my job, because it's about technology. And ... stuff.

    -- RLJ

    1. Re:Myth seven by pete-classic · · Score: 2, Funny

      Not just stuff, stuff that matters.

      -Peter

    2. Re:Myth seven by shfted! · · Score: 1

      It's stuff that matters, you insensitive clod!

      --
      He who laughs last is stuck in a time dilation bubble.
  14. Myths? by Icarus1919 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These don't sound like myths so much as they sound like uneducated things that ignorant, non IT people say.

    1. Re:Myths? by MikeMacK · · Score: 1

      Yup, sounds just like my boss.

    2. Re:Myths? by daniil · · Score: 1
      If you really believe this, then please pray tell me what a myth is?

      Because "a widely held (mis)belief [that forms a part of an ideology]" -- and these are widely held beliefs, as "ignorant non-IT people" are still in majority -- is a myth in my book.

      --
      Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
  15. You need to re-architect your solution. by FatSean · · Score: 0

    Look into a SAN device of sorts.

    --
    Blar.
    1. Re:You need to re-architect your solution. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How would switching to SAN address any of his concerns?

  16. Many projects don't fail, they rust in place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    most IT projects may be late or over budget but they don't fail

    Yes, in my experience most projects don't "fail" in the sense that they have to be abandoned, but they do "grind to a halt" once the first round of requirements are met.

    I.e. you build a new invoicing system. It meets the requirements. Your team codes like mad to meet those requirements. Success, everybody has a few beers.

    Then 6 months the customer needs modifications. You look at your spaghetti code and realize you have to start over. The customer grudgingly accepts.

    I would consider that first project a failure even though it met the first requirements.

    (Yes here is where you can make a plug for XP or agile development, but it doesn't work for every shop).

    1. Re:Many projects don't fail, they rust in place by metlin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Agreed - but blaming it entirely on the developers is wrong, too.

      If the customer anticipates any future modifications and upgrades, I think that ought to be mentioned in the inital functional specifications, so that the developers can make sufficient room for such accomodations.

      And before you say that any good developer should be able to anticipate all this and the like, it's ridiculous - just how much can you anticipate? When you do anticipate and write modular code, it takes more time - and the boss is down on your neck demanding that you wrap things up as soon as you can. So what do you do? You write sphagetti code.

      The unfortunate thing here is that the customer himself is unsure of what is needed, so that uncertainty filters down to the developers, who code it up to the best of their abilities - into what they construe are the requirements.

      The scar runs deep, unfortunately.

    2. Re:Many projects don't fail, they rust in place by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Informative

      If the customer anticipates any future modifications and upgrades, I think that ought to be mentioned in the inital functional specifications, so that the developers can make sufficient room for such accomodations.

      BZZZT! Wrong answer. A good software architect holds one law above all else: "The customer doesn't actually know what they want!" This means that you need to code as defensively as possible. If it's your baby that you coded from scratch, you should be able to do a good job of this. Just make sure your systems are separated, your code is clean, and just about any new feature you can think of can be plugged in.

      The part that sucks is when you inherit someone else's mess, then try to whip it into a usable system that can be adjusted to the customer's needs. While I've seen plenty of well written Open Source projects (although MOST are still crap), I have never seen even ONE existing business system that was well written from the get-go. Every last one of them ended up needing a complete overhaul to get it up to snuff. It's even worse when you have no idea what your company even does. (Eventually got that worked out, thank God.)

    3. Re:Many projects don't fail, they rust in place by jon3k · · Score: 1

      Compare the ratio's of number of crap/good open source products to the number of crap/good closed source products, and you'll be (pleasantly?) surprised that the ratio considerably favors open source software.

      Need more research material?

      http://www.download.com/

      I rest my case.

    4. Re:Many projects don't fail, they rust in place by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      Didn't I just make that point? Sheesh people. Turn down the knee-jerk response time.

    5. Re:Many projects don't fail, they rust in place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Whats wrong with my code! Just because I like goto's over functions, thats my own preference.

    6. Re:Many projects don't fail, they rust in place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A Slashdot subscriber goes to a doctor for a physical. Instead of hitting the subscriber's knee with a rubber hammer, the doctor just says bad things about Open Source.

      Ba-dum-cha.

    7. Re:Many projects don't fail, they rust in place by siskbc · · Score: 1
      (G-parent):"If the customer anticipates any future modifications and upgrades, I think that ought to be mentioned in the inital functional specifications, so that the developers can make sufficient room for such accomodations."

      (Parent):BZZZT! Wrong answer. A good software architect holds one law above all else: "The customer doesn't actually know what they want!" This means that you need to code as defensively as possible.

      I'd do both. Anyone who thinks they code so damned well they can adapt anything is naive or arrogant. Not spending the time with a customer to find out what they might want to do with the program in the future is completely foolish. Eventually you'll have to make design choices in writing your program, and if you can make those choices with knowledge of what you might have to do later, you're one step ahead.

      --

      -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

    8. Re:Many projects don't fail, they rust in place by Brandybuck · · Score: 1

      Yes here is where you can make a plug for XP or agile development

      No please don't! Otherwise they just might say yes, but without understanding the new methodology, making you work within some bastardized pseudo-process that's worse than the orginal.

      Remember, extreme and agile methodologies require a change to the traditional structure of dvelopment teams, and you're not going to be able to push something that "radical" up to the VP level for approval

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
    9. Re:Many projects don't fail, they rust in place by maxpublic · · Score: 1

      The part that sucks is when you inherit someone else's mess

      Which, from my experience, is the end result of the efforts of many so-called 'programmers'. I thank the various and sundry gods that I'm out of the business now, hopefully forever, but as a contractor the vast majority of my time was spent cleaning up after the half-assed efforts of a bunch of douchebags who had the gall to call themselves 'experts'. And who often had a degree from prestigious University X to back them up on those grandiose claims.

      People wonder why I have so little respect for so many folks in the field I spent more than twenty years in. The reason is simple: EXPERIENCE. As in, most of the fuckers whose jobs are even remotely connected to computing couldn't find their ass with both hands if their lives depended on it. This was too often true prior to the proliferation of the PC, but now I can be reasonably sure that better than 90% of the time the 'network administrator' or 'programmer' or 'technician' that I've just met is a fucking idiot of the first order.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    10. Re:Many projects don't fail, they rust in place by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      You should of course listen to where the customer wants to take the product. Then assume that what they told you is completely wrong. Design for what they told you, and any place in the system you could reasonably see them changing it. They'll still get you in several areas, but I can guarantee that you'll be far less hurt by these than the complete system redesign you'd need otherwise.

    11. Re:Many projects don't fail, they rust in place by borgasm · · Score: 1

      AMEN BROTHER!!!!!

      I can't tell you how many projects I have worked on that are exactly what you described.

      In all honesty, I usually start coding about a week after the customer thinks I do, because it is a given that they will change their mind completely.

      Prepare for anything...

    12. Re:Many projects don't fail, they rust in place by Prior+Restraint · · Score: 1

      ...making you work within some bastardized pseudo-process that's worse than the orginal.

      My employer calls it XPe. The "e" supposedly stands for "enhanced," but my buddy said it stood for "except," as in: We'll do XP... except for the parts that actually make it useful. I have to believe the pitch went something like this:

      "XP says we should ditch all those ponderous design documents. It also says IT will produce results faster; they'll produce value-add every two weeks! We can move developers from team to team, because it's all just code, right? That's what they mean by 'egoless code.' The users will have to send one of their own to sit with the developers; I'm sure it'll be someone highly productive.

      "There's some silly parts, though. Take, for example, this no-overtime rule. Hello?! That's why they're salaried! Refactoring and test code and blah blah blah. That stuff takes--What? An hour? Two? Our developers are smart; they won't need to refactor, anyway, because they'll get it right the first time."

  17. No...the biggest myth is: by Savet+Hegar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Your opinion matters to the one who authorizes purchases.

    IT: I suggest we go with this option because of $x, $y, and $z.

    Boss: How much does it cost?

    IT: Well, the cost is $X but we we won't have to upgrade for several years, and it will handle all of our needs.

    Boss: What can we get for $Y?

    IT: We can get a remanufactured system that barely surpasses our current system.

    Boss: But it IS better than what we have...right?

    IT: Well....technically....

    Boss: Great, let's do that!

    --
    Mod points are pointless when you browse at -1.
    1. Re:No...the biggest myth is: by kwerle · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I give you 2 choices:
      1. You're a moron for working for a moron.
      2. You're a moron for not lying to your moron boss.

    2. Re:No...the biggest myth is: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Nah, my experience was

      IT: Apache's a perfectly fine web server.

      VP-BusDev: But Orickle tells me their Beta of a Application server costs $10K+ It must be better.

      IT: Dude, all we do is serve static pages, that product isn't even finished, [research], and hell, it uses Apache (an old version) for the front end anyway.

      VP-BusDev: [plays golf w/ salesguy] We went with Orickle - and make sure the static pages we serve up are automatically entered into Orickle finankles that we bought with it. Damn that guy was good at golf, but I was so lucky he screwed up the last 3 holes so bad that I won! Did I show you this cool golf trophy I won.

    3. Re:No...the biggest myth is: by TheOtherAgentM · · Score: 1

      You forgot $z. Everyone get's an Etch-A-Sketch! Congratulations. You've just saved the company millions of dollars. Now, as a consultant, get the hell out of there before they realize what you've done.

    4. Re:No...the biggest myth is: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sigh. Yeah, I guess it is flamebait. Still - staying in that position requires a certain lack of vision.

    5. Re:No...the biggest myth is: by anothy · · Score: 1

      man, you've got it easy. how's this:

      IT: I suggest we do $X, because of $j, $k, and $l.

      Boss: What about doing $Y?

      IT: Nope, that won't work because of $p, $q, and $r.

      Boss: Oh. Okay, that makes sense.

      two weeks later, $Y is dropped in your lap and you're told to make it work. why? because some guy the boss played golf with told him it was a good idea. arg.

      --

      i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
    6. Re:No...the biggest myth is: by vsprintf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your opinion matters to the one who authorizes purchases.

      In our company, it's more like:

      Boss: Our Megabux system does not meet the organization's needs because it doesn't do X, Y, and Z.

      IT: It does do all those things.

      Boss: It doesn't work correctly because it does not programatically match our mission and is architectually incompatible and too tightly coupled with our other existing systems, according to my golfing partner.

      IT: It meets all the design and functional requirements. In fact, it works quite well.

      Boss: I know we can improve the system by leveraging the superior talent used by commercial software companies and using COTS software because I read it in a magazine, and I want everyone to know I knew it first. It will also save us tons of money.

      IT: It will be a huge, costly, time-consuming project to replace our working system with COTS and integrate all the interconnected systems.

      Boss: Send out an RFP, and I'll be watching this project closely since you've made your opposition known. If it fails, I'll know why.

    7. Re:No...the biggest myth is: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      "Your opinion matters to the one who authorizes purchases."

      Untrue. Your opinion matters when YOU ARE the one who authorizes purchases.

      If you don't even have this much authority in your workplace, you aren't successful enough to consider yourself in a position to criticize your employer...

  18. Multiple platforms by WD_40 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Last week I realized the error of my ways in running all one platform, therefore I took an old PC and installed DOS 6.2 and Windows 1.0 on it. I think the only way I could have gotten weirder looks from cow-irkers would be to find and install a copy of MS BOB.

    --

    "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." -- RFC 1925

    1. Re:Multiple platforms by theyre+watching+you · · Score: 1
    2. Re:Multiple platforms by vsprintf · · Score: 1

      Last week I realized the error of my ways in running all one platform, therefore I took an old PC and installed DOS 6.2 and Windows 1.0 on it.

      And where exactly did you get your copies of DOS 6.2 and Windows 1.0 ? We would like to see your papers, please.

      The BSA

    3. Re:Multiple platforms by WD_40 · · Score: 1

      Umm... not from an illegal source. No really, I promise!

      --

      "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." -- RFC 1925

  19. myth 7 by 5m477m4n · · Score: 5, Funny

    Company technicians are not grouchy, they do not put down those idiots in accounting who can't seem to open email attachments, and they're always happy to serve their fellow employees.
    Now fucking go away I'm reading slashdot.

    --

    ---
    Those who can, do
    Those who can't, teach
    Those who don't know how, supervise
    1. Re:myth 7 by AnonymousComrade · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem here is rather those in accounting who always open email attachments, preferrably those ending in .exe or .com .

    2. Re:myth 7 by pretoris · · Score: 1

      ... they do not put down those idiots in accounting who can't seem to open email attachments ...

      How, exactly, is that a problem?

  20. Slashdot IT myth... by FerretFrottage · · Score: 5, Funny

    New color scheme looks great.

    --
    "Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
    1. Re:Slashdot IT myth... by Ponfyr · · Score: 1

      Must.. Not.. tell.. McGreevey jokes!!!

  21. No, that's a different myth. by sulli · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Server Upgrades Don't Matter"

    --

    sulli
    RTFJ.
    1. Re:No, that's a different myth. by sql*kitten · · Score: 4, Funny

      How about "fluorescent beige is a great colour scheme"?

    2. Re:No, that's a different myth. by TyrranzzX · · Score: 1

      It even goes with the blue smoke being released.

    3. Re:No, that's a different myth. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      anyone got a privoxy rule handy to s/it.slashdot.org /foo.slashdot.org ?

    4. Re:No, that's a different myth. by Uber+Banker · · Score: 2, Informative
    5. Re:No, that's a different myth. by Rudeboy777 · · Score: 1

      OH SNAPS!!! What an original burn! Taco must be stinging from that one

      --

      From hell's heart I fstab at /dev/hdc

    6. Re:No, that's a different myth. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet you like the color scheme. And the "It is what IT is."

      Geek.

    7. Re:No, that's a different myth. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    8. Re:No, that's a different myth. by Degrees · · Score: 1

      That's cool - I didn't know it could be done. Thanks!

      --
      "The most sensible request of government we make is not, "Do something!" But "Quit it!"
  22. Another myth by rlp · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's only a prototype - we're not going to deploy it in production.

    --
    [Insert pithy quote here]
    1. Re:Another myth by parksie · · Score: 1

      Funny? More like insightful...oh wait, it changed between reading and commenting.

      Seen this happen way too many times :(

    2. Re:Another myth by hoggoth · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > It's only a prototype - we're not going to deploy it in production.

      Oh... this brings back painfull memories.
      Years ago I was working at a mid-sized systems integrator (several hundred staff).

      My manager told three of us to 'whip up a demo' of what a document imaging system might look like to show the company owner. So we read a few IT magazines about document imaging, and cobbled together a program WRITTEN IN A SPREADSHEET, that had three buttons:

      Button 1, 'Scan', would scan an image and display it.
      Button 2, 'Save', would save it to disk with a title and page number.
      Button 3, 'Workflow', would throw up a spreadsheet of the documents with a column where you could enter a staff persons name.

      It took us a day or two and then we showed it to the manager. He loved the concept and showed it to the owner. He loved our hot new product and showed it to sales. Sales loved our new strategic direction and showed it to clients.

      A big power utility bought it for mega-bucks.
      As the designers who built the thing, of course we had to install it on site and do the training.
      They were expecting a full blown document imaging system with complex workflow paths etc etc.

      I'm sure if any of the other guys on that team are reading this they will recognize this story at once.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    3. Re:Another myth by freedom_india · · Score: 1

      OH !!! So you were the guys who were responsible for "fooling" around with ... Boy, if i ever get my hands on you again...

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    4. Re:Another myth by MexicanMenace · · Score: 1

      did you use to work for Sabre too?

    5. Re:Another myth by michael_cain · · Score: 1
      It's only a prototype - we're not going to deploy it in production.

      I recall a system that was prototyped in Lisp on specialized hardware. The client organization loved everything about it -- the user interface, the speed of response, the robust handling of unspecified conditions, etc. After an enormous amount of begging and pleading by the client, management finally agreed to ship the prototype. Almost everyone was happy, because even after paying for the somewhat more expensive hardware, the project was finished well under budget and before the due date. Except the development management, who hated the thought of having two Lisp programmers on staff instead of the previously planned six C programmers...

    6. Re:Another myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Scott? Is that you?
      This is Tommy.
      Long time no hear. It's funny to find you here in a Slashdot posting.

      That was one sick project.
      Hey, did you know I was sleeping with Cathy (the receptionist)?

  23. Re:OMG FP by Mawbid · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Actually, it's my second :-)

    --
    Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
  24. Server Upgrades by ElForesto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article is right. The only thing we've ever upgraded on our servers is the RAM, and that's usually a stop-gap until we replace the thing. We only have one server that needs to have ample expansion room (a telephony server using custom ISA cards), and it's been with us for YEARS without hitting the cieling.

    I think the only people that concern themselves with upgrading all the time are the "power users" that want the latest toys.

    --
    There is a difference between "insightful" and "inciteful" other than spelling.
    1. Re:Server Upgrades by sharkey · · Score: 1

      RAM and disk. DB needs more room? That's why we bought the enclosures with empty bays. Add another spindle to the array and we're happy again.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  25. Myth #7 by jstrain · · Score: 3, Funny

    Our server can survive a slashdotting...

  26. What about... by deutschemonte · · Score: 4, Funny

    the boss's hair is not always pointy?

    --
    The preceding message was based on actual events. Only the names, locations and events have been changed.
  27. Myth: IT Journalists Never Run Out Of Ideas... by Kazoo+the+Clown · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Years ago, Creative Computing magazine published an article entitled "Don't Write That Program If" with a set of either obvious or otherwise lame or irrelevant reasons not to write a computer program (things like, if it already exists, if it's easier to do some other way, etc., I don't remember exactly, they were just too lame). It was clear to me at the time, that they were really reaching for things to fill the few pages that weren't ads.

    I responded with an letter to the editor entitled "Don't Write That Article If" which applied similar criteria to magazine articles, all of which applied to the original article (needless to say, the editor didn't print it). About three months later, they went belly-up. A shame, as at one time they were a great magazine.

    And, it's certainly true there is a glut of IT mags right now, I get at least 4 and they often have content so similar it looks like the same staff is coming up with all of them. And the number of articles worth reading has been diminishing of late...

    1. Re:Myth: IT Journalists Never Run Out Of Ideas... by kwerle · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the parent article was almost total crap. Most of the "busted myths" were not backed up at all - the biggest exception being the "most projects are failures" one (which I have my doubts about).

      I mean "80% of corporate data is held on mainframes" isn't true because of all the data in excel spreadsheets and email? Send one email message with one excel spreadsheet to everyone on the company, and that instantly dwarfs the storage of the database you got the spreadsheet data from - but I don't think that means you have more data off the server than on (never mind that all the email is actually stored on another server and just cached locally).

      I remember when infoworld was somewhat interesting and useful. Is it all just crap now?

    2. Re:Myth: IT Journalists Never Run Out Of Ideas... by srenker · · Score: 1
      And, it's certainly true there is a glut of IT mags right now, I get at least 4 and they often have content so similar it looks like the same staff is coming up with all of them.
      That's right, it's the advertisers' PR departments!
      --
      My new /. login is fabu10u$.
    3. Re:Myth: IT Journalists Never Run Out Of Ideas... by Vlad_the_Inhaler · · Score: 1

      Bingo.

      The critical stuff on which the business runs is usually on high-performance mainframes.

      I used to work for a Telco. Their entire cable-network was mapped on our mainframe. Planning the use of existing cables or where to add/upgrade cables was all done there.

      The other main application we had was billing of customers. Customers were split into 20 groups and they were each billed once a month. Normally one set of bills went out on any given day, occasionally we had days with zero or two (once even 3 after a major hardware problem) groups.

      Maybe some of those Excel tables are important, but that stuff was essential.

      --
      Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
    4. Re:Myth: IT Journalists Never Run Out Of Ideas... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually I know enough programmers who should have that article on a silver platter, and maybe a pink slip to go with it.

      Face it, programmers _love to program_.

      Tell them to produce an app that does X, Y, and Z, and they'll spend the first three months writing a library or utility that would have been handy in one of the recent projects they were involved in. Sometimes the new code will be handy in the new project, too, but until then they avoid the problem space. (Then again, experience tells me that the requirement specifications usually need to gel more than the team, so maybe the time would simply be wasted in other ways.)

      I have also seen consultants that were hired with great expectations to get the body count up. Again, these usually try to avoid the problem space and offer to write "support functions". Usually that results in a library that claims to bring system calls into the OO age but which is poorly documented, badly designed, and which breaks as soon as it sees any actual use. What's more, some of these guys have been tinkering with their libraries at other employers, and they still haven't noticed that their File::getSize() should not return int, it should return off_t. When asked what their class File models, you get a blank stare. What it typically models is a file node in a UNIX-like file system, and things get really interesting with directories - after six or eight iterations, they still have no clue how to model those.

      I'll stop before this turns into a rant.

  28. 7th Myth by Swamii · · Score: 5, Funny

    Slashdotters do RTFA.

    --
    Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit
    1. Re:7th Myth by guitaristx · · Score: 1

      Slashdotters can RTFA after the story has been up for half an hour.

      --
      I pity the foo that isn't metasyntactic
  29. One I've been seeing lately by LittleLebowskiUrbanA · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is "Gee, we'd like to deploy Open Source software but it would cost more for training and the changeover than a proprietary solution."

    My response: "I could have built 2 redundant OpenBSD firewalls for less than half the cost of our new proprietary firewall and the OpenBSD boxes would have a faster turnaround time on security patches and PF is easier to implement and maintain than any proprietary firewall I've seen. Not to mention, just as secure if not more so"

    1. Re:One I've been seeing lately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think there'd be more to IT than firewalls, but that seems to be all slashdotters have any experience with.

      Fuck your firewall example. That's hardly a business expense. That's like bitching about the Swingline staplers because the Bostich is cheaper and has an "open" design.

    2. Re:One I've been seeing lately by LittleLebowskiUrbanA · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Like hell it is when when I can get redundancy (read failover) for less than half the price.

      Yeah, there is more to IT than firewalls. Protecting your IP/corporate resources is pretty important in my book though. Anyway, that's my example and if you don't like it, posting anonymously and bitching isn't going to do anything because I doubt anyone else will read your comment.

    3. Re:One I've been seeing lately by jon3k · · Score: 1

      because I doubt anyone else will read your comment.

      Can we give this guy a +6 for guessing calling that one kreskin style? ...different AC by the way :)

    4. Re:One I've been seeing lately by 0racle · · Score: 1

      Show me how to integrate OpenBSD into a modern, centrally managed user authentication system and how to centrally manage multiple pf firewalls with different settings, then I will agree that OpenBSD has a definite place in a corporate network structure.

      Now don't get me wrong, I use pf myself, and for small businesses that have only one entry point, then i say that OpenBSD is absolutely the way to go. Its just that as far as integrating it into an existing structure, for instance where user accounts are in an Active Directory or another LDAP directory service, or you have multiple firewalls in different places serving a different purpose and therefore with different rules, OpenBSD is currently lacking.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    5. Re:One I've been seeing lately by LittleLebowskiUrbanA · · Score: 1

      Yep, dead right. Fortunately I work for a small company w/out those hangups.

  30. More IT Myths by fullmetal55 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Myth: Chicks don't dig geeks, no matter how much money you make. Reality: Some chicks do dig geeks (waves to gf Hi honey!), unfortunately said geek needs to make sure he looks clean and well kept. and then there's the sub-set of female geeks, which is another story entirely. (no my gf isn't a geek, but she likes geeks... all her past bfs were geeks)

    1. Re:More IT Myths by JAD+lifter · · Score: 2, Funny


      Only poseurs have girlfriends.

      (That line was blatently stolen and mutilated from the movie SLC Punk. I believe the original line was "only poseurs fall in love.")

    2. Re:More IT Myths by slave+6742 · · Score: 2, Funny
      (no my gf isn't a geek, but she likes geeks... all her past bfs were geeks)

      So, which bf upgrade are you?

      I think I am version 5.0.

      --
      HGTTG: "I knew that there was something fundementally wrong with the Universe."
    3. Re:More IT Myths by Aerog · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm sure your girlfriend is a very nice person, but the girl I dated who "liked geeks" ended up "replacing geeks" as often as Mozilla milestones. Unfortunately, she did this without first EOL'ing the previous version, or announcing that there was a new version.

      Chicks may dig geeks, but they are also chicks, and thus not to be trusted. The Y chromosome may be smaller, but it does a very important task in nature: preventing Crazy

      --

      - Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!
    4. Re:More IT Myths by bladesjester · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Been there. Done that. It's really not any fun. Could be the reason I really haven't dated in quite a while. I've gotten plenty of offers, but haven't really taken any of them up on it. *shrugs*

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    5. Re:More IT Myths by Aerog · · Score: 1

      And you probably have a boatload of money and time you wouldn't have otherwise, eh?

      Damn nature making us think we should procreate.

      --

      - Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!
    6. Re:More IT Myths by JAD+lifter · · Score: 3, Funny

      My thoughts exactly. Chances are, any so-called geek that has a girlfriend is way too pussywhipped to engage any longer in true geekdom.

      Seriously. Every geek that I've known who gets a girlfriend seems to stop being a geek after that. Sure they may still work in IT or be majoring in CS or whatever. Sure they may still spend hours a day programming, reading SF and playing video games. And they probably still call themself a geek. But it is like when they get a GF something dies inside them. They no longer seem quite as hardcore.

      In the worst scenerios, it's when a geek gets a GF and starts acting better than all of his former friends. Like when you ask him to come over on friday night to hang out in the parents basement and play AD&D and he gets all snooty and says "Heh! I've got a giiirrrlfriend now. I can't hang out with yooouuu guys on friday. I have to take my giirrlfriend to the movies." Fucking fuckwitted scumfucks.

    7. Re:More IT Myths by bladesjester · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's probably about even money-wise. I didn't have to buy most of my clothing - my ex was a model so I basically got whatever I liked clothing-wise.

      Time wise, I tend to drive myself anyway so time really isn't an issue. It just means that I find more things to push myself in...

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    8. Re:More IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >So, which bf upgrade are you?
      >I think I am version 5.0.

      Previously named 1.5 and STILL in beta, right?

      (hint: sun, java ...)

    9. Re:More IT Myths by Tongo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And you would do the exact same thing the first time you got laid...

    10. Re:More IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ROTFL. But it's true. I've seen it happen.

      And it's sad. Because no girl is worth giving up your creativity and/or personality.

    11. Re:More IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't have to buy most of my clothing - my ex was a model so I basically got whatever I liked clothing-wise.

      Uuuuhhh... you realize that this either means you're gay or a cross-dresser, right?

    12. Re:More IT Myths by MoggyMania · · Score: 1

      Female geek here, engaged to a male geek. :)

      "unfortunately said geek needs to make sure he looks clean and well kept"

      He also has to be (IMHO) not a sexist jackass that will try to talk down to me or regard me as "crazy" or any of that other bullshit I see on Slashdot all too often.

    13. Re:More IT Myths by MoggyMania · · Score: 1

      "Chicks may dig geeks, but they are also chicks, and thus not to be trusted. The Y chromosome may be smaller, but it does a very important task in nature: preventing Crazy"

      With that attitude, it doesn't surprise me at all that you get psychos for GFs. No sane self-respecting intelligent woman, geek or otherwise, would date somebody that regarded them as naturally "crazy" or otherwise inferior.

    14. Re:More IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i hope i metamoderate this thread. as it is funny, interesting, and for the thread -on topic.

      not sure what many mods don't understand about "mostly moderate up"

      anyway, expect some keyboard pounding as the "you were metamoderated unfair" notices start going out...

    15. Re:More IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      >>other bullshit I see on Slashdot all too often.

      uh yea. slashdot is reflection of reality.

      "(blah blah blah snip)sexist jackass(blah blah blah snip)"

      young women need to stop being irrational, double-standard holding, over-reactionary, cat-fighting, back-stabbing, gold-digging, know it alls.

    16. Re:More IT Myths by Kreigaffe · · Score: 2, Funny

      "With that attitude, it doesn't surprise me at all that you get psychos for GFs. No sane self-respecting intelligent woman, geek or otherwise, would date somebody that regarded them as naturally "crazy" or otherwise inferior." You just listed 3 qualities that I have never seen combined in the same woman :O buuuutt seriously. be glad we're calling it "crazy". In a guy, the same things would have him labeled either "idiot" or "jackass" that get a woman labeled just.. "crazy".

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    17. Re:More IT Myths by MoggyMania · · Score: 1, Insightful

      > uh yea. slashdot is reflection of reality.

      Real people post here... Those are real people's attitudes. *shrug*

      > "(blah blah blah snip)sexist jackass(blah blah
      > blah snip)"

      Cutting meaningful words down to obscure the actual intent based on the person's gender is *exactly* the kind of shitty behavior I was talking about.

      > young women need to stop being irrational,
      > double-standard holding, over-reactionary,
      > cat-fighting, back-stabbing, gold-digging,
      > know it alls.

      All you're doing here is displaying the exact same gender-generalizing crap that I pointed out as being a factor AGAINST many Slashdotters getting dates with decent women. Entertainingly, in doing so, you yourself are being an irrational double-standard-holding over-reactionary know-it-all. Your point was again...?

    18. Re:More IT Myths by bladesjester · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Uuuuhhh... you realize that this either means you're gay or a cross-dresser, right?"

      From your comment, I'd say you've never been in that sort of situation. It's not uncommon for the b/f's or g/f's of models to be given clothes that they like as well since the models get to keep some of the things that they like. It helps them not look *ahem* out of place (ie she is dressed really well and you're not).

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    19. Re:More IT Myths by MoggyMania · · Score: 1

      "...sane self-respecting intelligent"

      > You just listed 3 qualities that I have never seen
      > combined in the same woman

      Then I feel sorry for you. I'm perfectly sane, I have a great deal of self-respect (which is why I won't date a guy that isn't interested in me as an equal, and yes, that does mean that I prefer to pay my half or for him), I have an IQ over 170 and a bachelor's from Berkeley.

      > O buuuutt seriously. be glad we're calling it
      > "crazy". In a guy, the same things would have
      > him labeled either "idiot" or "jackass" that get
      > a woman labeled just.. "crazy".

      If somebody of either gender is being a jackass, that's what I'd rather have people call it. Thing is, both genders have a wide range of intelligences and attitudes. Claiming that it's somehow inherent to one kind of person is in itself idiotic, and it'd take a lot less self-respect than I have to feel that being patronized in the manner you're suggesting is something to be *grateful* for -- I'm an adult, not a little kid.

    20. Re:More IT Myths by nyseal · · Score: 2, Funny

      Women have that effect on ALL men (homosexuals exempt); geek or not. However, in the immortal words of Sam Kinison: "It's either that or suck a big dick; thanks God....thanks for the big menu down here!"

      --
      [SIG] Remember Mattel handheld games?
    21. Re:More IT Myths by maxpublic · · Score: 3, Funny

      Every geek that I've known who gets a girlfriend seems to stop being a geek after that

      That's because they're getting laid. And one day, when *you* get laid, you'll see why it is we prefer chicks to computers.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    22. Re:More IT Myths by maxpublic · · Score: 2, Funny

      Chicks may dig geeks, but they are also chicks, and thus not to be trusted

      Spoken like a true virgin.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    23. Re:More IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have had sex and I'm still a geek. I don't think I'm giving up my personality just to be forced to watch mind-numbing, spirit crushing game shows every evening and spend my whole Saturday watching her buy new shoes (and paying for them myself). No, sir. No way.

      If you're so weak that you need that shit to feel like a human, it's your loss. Really, sex isn't everything. The novelty will wear off. You'll see.

    24. Re:More IT Myths by JAD+lifter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And one day, when *you* get laid, you'll see why it is we prefer chicks to computers

      As much as it would be hard for my friends and coworkers to believe, I am not a virgin. Yes I have had sex and I still tend to prefer computers to girls.

      Don't get me wrong. Given the choice between a night with a sparcstation and a night with Natalie Portman I'd choose Natalie Portman anyday. But in reality, sadly, those are not the choices.

      In reality I can work my ass off trying to impress some woman and then be forced to spend at least 50% of my limited freetime doing what she wants and I also have to hang out with her idiot friends and talk to her her dumbass family members on holidays and all kinds of other equally abhorrent stuff. And why? So that I can get laid a couple times a week? I've been there and done that and it is just not worth it. I'll take computers.

      Now if I could find a girl who was kinda like Marla from Fight Club, then I might change my mind about girls. The problem is that most girls are lamers and the ones who aren't are already taken or wouldn't go out with me anyways.

      And the fact is you don't need a girlfriend to gat laid. Get out the Yellow Pages and look under Massage Parlour and go to the ones that have adverts reading "Asian massage" and "Full Service." It'll cost you about one C-note plus a twenty dollar tip and most of the chicks are hot.

    25. Re:More IT Myths by SageMusings · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hey Stud,

      Everyone has been talking about sex with a partner. Sorry for the confusion, sport.

      --
      -- Posted from my parent's basement
    26. Re:More IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the comfort of the situation that kills them. Having a girlfriend is like smoking dope every day. Same effect. Your masculinity goes right out the window and you become a woman. I'm serious, it's not good for 95% of humanity to abandon their idealism and rationality. Sexual relationships are the underpinning of mediocrity.

    27. Re:More IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm terribly sorry that you were beaten up in highschool so badly and hated by the girls so much that it seems like a real accomplishment to have sex with a partner to you.

      I really hope that you find what you're looking for in being married to and fucking the same woman for the rest of your sad life.

    28. Re:More IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Finally, someone with a brain. Of course, I never have modpoints when I see one.

    29. Re:More IT Myths by schuster · · Score: 1

      You know, I do have a girlfriend who is crazy about me, but that doesn't make me enjoy sexist or jewish (I'm jewish) jokes any less. They're just just jokes and it's okay to laugh at yourself. I consider it to be a healthy thing. My father could never laugh at himself. He was the most intense person I've ever known and I feel sorry for him. Now, maybe for the 13 y/o equivalents of Bevis and Butt-head who post here, these jokes may not be such a good thing, but that's not our problem. They're going to post those jokes regardless and we're not going to know how old they are, so we may as well just laugh. At the very least, if you're going to take jokes like that seriously, then I'd suggest not voicing your opinions about it here. You'll just make it more fun for the others to piss you off.

      --
      --- Don't ever trust a woman until she's dead- B.B. King
    30. Re:More IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
      I'm perfectly sane, I have a great deal of self-respect (which is why I won't date a guy that isn't interested in me as an equal, and yes, that does mean that I prefer to pay my half or for him), I have an IQ over 170 and a bachelor's from Berkeley.

      You know, you could have just said you're a lesbian.

    31. Re:More IT Myths by MoggyMania · · Score: 1

      The only thing is, there's a bit of a difference between two people of the same group making fun of themselves based on true experience, and one group sneering at another.

      You've actually *probably* experienced this yourself. If you're hanging out with a friend, for example, and swapping jokes about being Jewish, you know it's just affectionate/respectful fun. But that's a totally different experience from hanging out with that friend, and having some third guy wander by to make a nasty comment about your heritage/religion.

      As a side note, I do stick up for men when I find women slamming all guys for being "like X" when X is some trait that few/none of the men I know possesses. I don't believe in condoning an -ism through silence, and most of the time, I've found that other people present disliked the comments/"jokes" too, but just didn't want to speak up for various reasons.

      Anyway, it doesn't piss me off when trollish pricks make fun of me on that count, just makes me that much more certain that they're losers. If anything, I usually am sitting here snickering at how childish they sound. *grin*

    32. Re:More IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm perfectly sane, I have a great deal of self-respect

      Just because you say it doesn't mean it's true.

      I have an IQ over 170 and a bachelor's from Berkeley.

      Yeah, but you also two cats as the only images on your front page of your website. That pretty much nullifies whatever else you say. There is a pretty good rule that I heard (I believe here on Slashdot) "If a girl has more than two cats - don't walk, RUN away" I think we could extend that correlary to posting images on ones website.

    33. Re:More IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey dumbass,

      Unfunniest. Comment. Ever.

      Clearly, this one got his creativity sucked out by a cheap whore.

    34. Re:More IT Myths by Bedouin+X · · Score: 1

      All humans are crazy, that's a known fact. But even most women will tell you that they have a special brand of craziness that bludgeons men into complicity. It's like they have developed this irrational fuck-with-you-till-they-get-their-way method as a counter to a man's physical advantage. Which - if that's actually the case - would be very rational.

      Ahhhh evolution is grand...

      --
      Dissolve... Resolve... Evolve...
    35. Re:More IT Myths by CaptainBaz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      +5 Insightful?

      I don't know whether to laugh or cry...

    36. Re:More IT Myths by Bedouin+X · · Score: 1

      I guess the problem is that craziness is a trait that many women that we know posess ;-). It doesn't mean we love them any less. Hell, we put up with it don't we?

      Many times craziness is just where the genders generally disagree. Like women are more sensitive to discomfort than men and they can make a BIG deal about it. Men are more prone to sweat out a little excess heat or faint smell and look at the woman convulsing on the floor as a little...

      crazy.

      No this isn't ALL women but it's a large number. If you're not one of them then you probably don't hang around those types anyway. But they are out there in huge numbers and just about any man that has interacted with more than a few women on a personal level for longer than six months will bear witness. It's the ones who sit home and jack off all night that think that women are perfect and "the same." We're different. The sooner we realize this, the sooner we can get back to having decent marriages in this country.

      --
      Dissolve... Resolve... Evolve...
    37. Re:More IT Myths by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I guess no one has told her to avoid .0 releases, huh?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    38. Re:More IT Myths by Aerog · · Score: 1

      I can assure you, it wasn't the attitude that led to the crazy chicks. It was the one crazy chick who led to the attitude. Although you are right in the one way; judging by the dude she was cheating on me with, she had no self-respect.

      --

      - Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!
    39. Re:More IT Myths by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      I didn't say ALL women are crazy ;)

      I will now, though.

      That's fine though, there's a lot of kinds of crazy and everybody's a half-step off anyway.
      It's all just a matter of degrees and finding someone with a complimentory craziness (not neccessarily simliar).

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    40. Re:More IT Myths by clausen · · Score: 1
      Seriously. Every geek that I've known who gets a girlfriend seems to stop being a geek after that.
      While I have always been a geek, I think my girlfriend made me more geeky... she convinced me to use the Maths library more! I think this lead to me becoming more mathematically rigourous. When I first asked her out, she rejected me, but proceeded to find the proof of a theorem in the library I had been looking for! (The Ring version of the third fundamental theorem of Algebra, IIRC) She also got me into Topology...
    41. Re:More IT Myths by Demonspawn · · Score: 1

      "But, you see, I am a sexist bastard. I hold open doors for you, honey."

      Yes, those words did pass my lips. I've found that women complain and complain about double standards, until it is one that works in their favor.

      --Demonspawn

    42. Re:More IT Myths by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      I met my husband at a gaming con and I"m probably a bigger geek than he is...

      You need to meet a better class of geek. :)

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    43. Re:More IT Myths by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      The problem is that most girls are lamers and the ones who aren't are already taken or wouldn't go out with me anyways.

      Issues much

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    44. Re:More IT Myths by drsquare · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's why relationships are a bad idea. It's best to stick to temporary partners, that way you get all of the sex (and a greater variety of it) without the pointless hassle of a relationship. The women prefer it as well (even if they don't admit it).

    45. Re:More IT Myths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're all retarded. You just have to find one who's retarded in a way that amuses you instead of driving you crazy.

      [Note that "they" refers to all members of the opposite sex, whichever sex that may be.]

    46. Re:More IT Myths by Llama_STi · · Score: 1

      ... or divorcee.

    47. Re:More IT Myths by Llama_STi · · Score: 1

      yet he was still better than you? :( that sucks.

    48. Re:More IT Myths by JAD+lifter · · Score: 1

      Issues much

      buffy saugt der Vampire Slayer Esel

  31. KARMA!!!! by appleLaserWriter · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Six great myths of IT

    Urban legends from the tech trenches ... and the realities behind them

    The six myths of IT
    It's time to test some long-held assumptions

    IT Myth 1: Server upgrades matter
    Reality: Don't pay extra for upgradability; you'll never need it

    IT Myth 2: Eighty percent of corporate data resides on mainframes
    Reality: Try 50 percent, or even less

    IT Myth 3: All big shops run multiple platforms
    Reality: This 'myth' is closer to fact than fiction

    IT Myth 4: CIOs and CTOs have a greater need for business savvy than tech expertise
    Reality: Tech chops matter more than ever

    IT Myth 5: Most IT projects fail
    Reality: It all depends on how you define failure

    IT Myth 6: IT doesn't scale
    Reality: Virtually any technology is scalable, provided you combine the right ingredients and implement them effectively

    IT alligator tales
    Urban legends run amok in the technology world

  32. 8th myth by Swamii · · Score: 1

    The new Slashdot color scheme is an improvement.

    --
    Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit
  33. Mainframe Myth Exposed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    We never said, "80% of data resides on mainframes"

    We said, "80% of the important data resides on mainframes."

    *snirk*

  34. Re:myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now that it's burning into my retinas, it's actually starting to look quite good.

  35. 80% of data... by wikdwarlock · · Score: 1

    May not be on the mainframes, but they certainly just lost the 20% that was on that smoking heap of plastic and metal they used as a web server.

    Slashdot: Now decreasing data clutter by 20%!

    --

    "I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer." -Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear
    1. Re:80% of data... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... they used as a web server^w^w desktop system in Accounting.

  36. Another Myth by ReadParse · · Score: 2, Funny

    Slashdotting doesn't punish your site

  37. Stupid beige theme by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Jesus Christ, could you please get rid of this awful
    beige theme on the IT section or make the theming at least configurable. Thanks.

    1. Re:Stupid beige theme by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm terribly sorry, but I can't help you, as Hell is out of my jurisdiction.

      Sincerely yours,

      Jesus Christ.

  38. Even worse by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Your opinion matters to the one who authorizes purchases.

    Even worse ... Boss: What do you think of this? (C'mon you know damn well this question has been posed to you and you've seen these same results)

    IT: It might work, but will take 112 days from initiation to the production. It will require a work force of 384 slaves, 34 slave drivers, 12 engineers, 2 turtle doves, and a partridge in a pear tree. The work will need to be managed by a command team composed of 234 bureaucrats, 2347 secretaries (at least two of whom could type), 12,256 paper shufflers, 52,469 rubber stampers, 245,193 red tape processors, and nearly one million dead trees

    Boss: But, in the end it'll work, right?

    IT: Well...

    Boss: We're getting it anyway, I've already ordered it *BIG GRIN*

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Even worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, this is even worse:

      Boss: And $Z?

      IT: It's even cheaper, but it's worse than the system we have now.

      Boss: Let's go with that.

    2. Re:Even worse by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "It might work, but will take 112 days"

      First, you should never said 'it might work'. It wont work without extensive man power. then lead into your hourse...speaking of which...

      never talk in days, always talk in man hours.
      You tell some it will be done in 3 days, they expected it done in three days regardless of interuptions. If you say 30* hours, they are more likley to take interuption into account.

      *never say 24 hours if it can be helped. It has been my experience that many manager convert the to 1 day.

      I have exactly zero idea why both of these are true, they're just based on my observations and have never failed.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Even worse by jpetts · · Score: 1

      It will require a work force of 384 slaves, 34 slave drivers, 12 engineers, 2 turtle doves, and a partridge in a pear tree. The work will need to be managed by a command team composed of 234 bureaucrats, 2347 secretaries (at least two of whom could type), 12,256 paper shufflers, 52,469 rubber stampers, 245,193 red tape processors, and nearly one million dead trees

      (Score:-1, Plagiarism)

      --
      Call me old fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it is devastating - Bender
  39. Another prevalent IT myth by Little+Grey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can't do real work on a Mac

    1. Re:Another prevalent IT myth by synoniem · · Score: 0, Troll

      But it is a myth that you can do real work on a Mac! There too much to toy with on a Mac which will keep you away from the real work.

    2. Re:Another prevalent IT myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      There too much to toy with on a Mac which will keep you away from the real work.

      You mean like installing critical updates, updating antivirus definitions, and downloading, installing, updating and running Ad-Aware, Spybot SD and ZoneAlarm?

      Oh, wait, I had a brain fart there... those are all the things I do for my Windows-using clients, while the endusers whose computers they are sit there idle and unproductive, waiting for me to finish delousing their PCs.

      Now, what were you saying about people being kept away from real work?

    3. Re:Another prevalent IT myth by synoniem · · Score: 1

      Oh boy what a self esteem! When you have a Mac to play with, you really are going to do something usefull? Of course not, you will trying to compile some free software, exchange songs with your Ipod, show it to your friends. Doing a lot of things but usefull!

  40. they missed one... Re:Yay by swschrad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    namely,

    MYTH: second tape of a backup set will always be bad.

    REALITY: only the tape ahead of the data you need, and the blocks in which the data you need reside, will be unrecoverable. in any tape format.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:they missed one... Re:Yay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's only because whenever the data you want *IS* recoverable you'll promptly forget that something so-close-to-tragic ever happened ;)

  41. Additional Myths Debunked by DJ Bitterbarn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Myth: Chicks don't dig geeks.
    Harsh Reality: Chicks dig assholes. Some of them dig geeks, but they'll migrate to the biggest asshole they can find.

    Myth: There are no geek chicks.
    Harsh Reality: There are geek chicks. They fall into two categories: Unattainable (via relationships or reading this post) or bat-shit crazy

    1. Re:Additional Myths Debunked by DJ Bitterbarn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Myth: Chicks don't dig geeks. Harsh Reality: Chicks dig assholes. Some of them dig geeks, but they'll migrate to the biggest asshole they can find.

      Not true. Chicks dig their emotions, so they go for the most emotionally stimulating thing, good or bad, they can find. Women are emotion-based beings.

    2. Re:Additional Myths Debunked by DJ Bitterbarn by connorbd · · Score: 1

      Myth: Chicks dig assholes.

      Harsh Reality: Chicks dig exciting guys. Assholes tend to be exciting. Geeks tend to be too arcane to be interesting; "nice guys" are just boring.

      As for geek chicks... they're also either stunningly beautiful or unattractive and overly aggressive. I don't think there's an in between there.

  42. My favourite myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Windows is ready for the desktop but Linux somehow isn't. Whose desktop I ask?

  43. the most pointless "article" ever? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny


    IT Myth 1: Server upgrades matter
    Reality: Don't pay extra for upgradability; you'll never need it

    great. although of course if it something's totally fucked and an upgrade will fix it..

    IT Myth 2: Eighty percent of corporate data resides on mainframes
    Reality: Try 50 percent, or even less

    fascinating.

    IT Myth 3: All big shops run multiple platforms
    Reality: This 'myth' is closer to fact than fiction

    so it's not really a myth then. just dull.

    IT Myth 4: CIOs and CTOs have a greater need for business savvy than tech expertise
    Reality: Tech chops matter more than ever

    mmmm chops..

    IT Myth 5: Most IT projects fail
    Reality: It all depends on how you define failure

    some things work and others don't. whatchacomeanago!

    IT Myth 6: IT doesn't scale
    Reality: Virtually any technology is scalable, provided you combine the right ingredients and implement them effectively

    no shit.

    these are the dullest IT myths ever. where is "Goatse man dead!" ?

    1. Re:the most pointless "article" ever? by shepd · · Score: 1

      >mmmm chops..

      Plo chops?

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    2. Re:the most pointless "article" ever? by erik_flannestad · · Score: 2, Funny

      >these are the dullest IT myths ever. where is "Goatse man dead!"?

      Or "IT came from outer space"?

  44. IDNRTA by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

    The only thing we've ever upgraded on our servers is the RAM, and that's usually a stop-gap until we replace the thing.

    Wholesale replacement of a machine with a newer, bigger, faster machine is a type of upgrade too, isn't it?

    1. Re:IDNRTA by ElForesto · · Score: 1

      It is, but the article was addressing upgrading a server by messing with it's hardware as opposed to replacing it. Hope that clarifies.

      --
      There is a difference between "insightful" and "inciteful" other than spelling.
  45. Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That article was the biggest bunch of statistical bullshit I've ever read. It looks like some reporter needed an article to write and that was all he could think of.

  46. looks like infoworlds tech doesnt scale by sponger · · Score: 0

    looks like they could not handle the slashdot load

  47. Let's Start with Myth[0] by 4of12 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...since we're in the know about where indeces really start.

    Myth[0] is that IT in a large organization can be effectively managed.

    The fact is that users will divert away from your preplanned utopia in ways you cannot believe.

    Many of those users will have their heads up their asses, having no idea how much trouble and hassle they're going to cause in the long term because they clicked on an attachment, saw a glossy magazine advertisement for software to cure all their ills, etc.

    A few of those random users will actually be going in right direction, even if the corporate policy hasn't caught up to them yet.

    Technically brilliant sysadmins and programmers with as much social acumen as skunk-sprayed porcupines; friendly, organized, effective managers pulling in the wrong technical direction - it's a wild wooly world in IT, not for those with weak stomachs.

    --
    "Provided by the management for your protection."
    1. Re:Let's Start with Myth[0] by dbIII · · Score: 1
      The fact is that users will divert away from your preplanned utopia in ways you cannot believe.
      One of them installed bonzi buddy, then sixteen others saw it and did the same - a bad day to take a day off. Next morning, seventeen complaints about their computers being too slow or acting wierd and requests for upgrades.
  48. Here's the big one by xsupergr0verx · · Score: 4, Funny

    This one was repeated all through high school.

    You will make a zillion dollars and be the boss.

    If I could find a job, I could test that myth.

    --

    Click here for a free picture of an iPod!
  49. Another IT myth... by artemis67 · · Score: 1

    "Nerdy computer-types drive the ladies WILD!"

    I knew there was something about that college recruiter that didn't sit well with me...

    1. Re:Another IT myth... by Starbreeze · · Score: 1

      Hey now... some of us girly geeks like men in glasses who we can actually have a conversation with. Besides, the nerdy types spend a lot more time looking me in the eyes and a lot less time staring at my chest.

    2. Re:Another IT myth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Besides, the nerdy types spend a lot more time looking me in the eyes and a lot less time staring at my chest.

      Obviously you haven't met ESR. (Link not safe for people with irony disorders.)

    3. Re:Another IT myth... by Obfiscator · · Score: 1

      Curious as to your thoughts on nerd vs. geek, since you used both in your comment. Is there a difference, or are they interchangable?

      I think a nerd is science oriented, while geeks are techy. Not completely, but tend to lean more in one direction than the other.

      I don't know what that makes me, since I'm a computational chemistry grad student. A neek?

      --
      "Nothing shocks me. I'm a scientist." -Indiana Jones
    4. Re:Another IT myth... by Starbreeze · · Score: 1

      this is off topic. but you are correct; i probably should have continued using the word geek. i generally reserve the word nerd for geeks who lack social skills. or me when i do something clutzy.

    5. Re:Another IT myth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      From your blog:
      "Ugh... my stomach muscles are still sore, and my throat is still raw."
      ...and my dick is still sore. Next time, we'll use more KY.
  50. Oddly not mentioned in the article... by marc_moore · · Score: 1

    "Good jobs at a fair wage hard to find" and "IT managers smarter, better leaders than those in other industries"...

  51. Its all about the Mainframe by Gothmolly · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Or "the Host" as we call it. I work at a very large US Bank, and while there are all sorts of Unix machines, 1000's of Wintel boxen, anything that does anything other than file/print, ultimately involves the Mainframe. 80% of the data may not live there, since we have frames full of DB2 servers, but to get anything done, it need to go via MQ to the Host. Counting bytes doesn't necessarily mean anything - a simple Excel sheet can be > 1 Meg.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
  52. re: KARMA!!!!! (WHORE) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    pitiful karma attempt. why didn't you post the meat of the article too? we all can see the headlines, it is clicking on all of those fucking links to see the copy that is annoying. you haven't done nothing, and now their server is timing out. for fucks sake. these WHORES can't WHORE like the old days.

  53. While we're at it, myth #7 a la me by guitaristx · · Score: 1

    That IT person is only trying to dazzle you with technobabble, and doesn't really know what he(she) is talking about.

    --
    I pity the foo that isn't metasyntactic
  54. How about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll
    Mac users are silly, nellie zealots whose needs don't matter

    Oh wait, that's not a myth, it's TRUE!

  55. Job Training by superangrybrit · · Score: 0

    pure myth. I have never seen a place that offers job training where people actually get some (!)

  56. Myth: InfoWorld Articles will be usefull... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All I see here is statements, and quotes...

    Facts? That's for those other magazines...

    Move along...

  57. Smalltalk-XP. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "(Yes here is where you can make a plug for XP or agile development, but it doesn't work for every shop)."

    Actually over in the Smalltalk groups. One is making an argument for use in a financial app. The original "agile development" environment.

  58. A "Real" Myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Live video streaming isn't scalab.....BUFFERING.....BUFFERING

  59. Unions do this already... by zogger · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Do an IT union instead of just "an organization". They establish their own credentials,which are, apprentice, journeyman, master. Then you negotiate from a position of strength in numbers as well. You get cred from your peers, and the PHB class has to deal with it, make 'em eat it. Any "workers" organization that isn't a union is just a lobbying effort, one that will never have the cash resources of the industry organizations, a union though, is an entity they HAVE to deal with if it's strong enough and you are smart enough, and isn't the point in being an IT guy being "smart enough"?

    And you also have the benefit of a solid century plus in hindsight to see what to do and what not to do with your union. You can look at the past, see where unions have been doofus tards, and where they have been strong and useful, both for themselves and for society in general, then, use your collective brains and "do it better".

    1. Re:Unions do this already... by networkBoy · · Score: 1, Insightful
      Do an IT union instead of just "an organization".

      I hate to tell you this, but going Union will kill the industry *(I am not a PHB and never, EVER will be).
      Before I get a lot of people mad at me, I should give my line of reasoning:

      The tech economy is one of low margins

      Unions increase the bottom line cost to the companies in two ways. 1: higher total employee cost (healthcare/retirement/etc. packages), 2: higher wages to pay the Union dues.

      Unions hurt their members as often as helping. My father in-law was sold down the river by his Union when the port he worked at closed down, he (and others) were promised jobs at other sites (over new-hires) and yet that never happened. The members of the grocery strike in SoCal were completely screwed. They went on strike to not have their bennies(sp?) raised, yet after the multi week unpaid strike was over their union signed the same deal that was on the table to begin with. Several union members found themselves in default on big loans (house/car) and I know of at least one who lost their house as a result.

      I don't want to spread too much FUD, but I would vote no on union if it came to my employer (a huge target, I'm sure)

      [/soapbox]
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    2. Re:Unions do this already... by Igmuth · · Score: 1
      They went on strike to not have their bennies(sp?)
      Are you serious? They went on strike to refuse extra benifits? That doens't make sense...
    3. Re:Unions do this already... by TykeClone · · Score: 1
      The worst things about unions are closed shops in non-right to work states. They can force you to join a union and pay dues - even as a part time peon.

      I don't have too much respect for unions. As I was growing up, I watched a nearby town torn inside out by meat-packing strikes. The unions just about killed the towns and accomplished nothing.

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    4. Re:Unions do this already... by greenrd · · Score: 1
      I don't have too much respect for unions.

      Translation: I don't have much respect for workers who stand up for their rights collectively.

      Unions are just organisations created to represent the interests of their members. They can be more or less corrupt, like any other organisation. Sometimes they suceed against difficult odds, sometimes they fail against difficult odds.

      I don't think you can seriously claim that all unions are useless or counterproductive. That's a slap in the face to unionised workers.

    5. Re:Unions do this already... by TykeClone · · Score: 1
      Unions were originally created to help the working man. Now they just help the union bosses.

      I stand by my original premise - Austin, MN, was shredded in the 80's by a union strike that did nothing to help the members of that union.

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    6. Re:Unions do this already... by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      should have been: They went on strike to not have [the cost of] their benies (sp?)raised.
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  60. Myths Number Seven and a half and Eight by mojoNYC · · Score: 1
    ...or give you a reach around...

    ...or kiss you when he's done!

  61. I've seen most IT shops in my area by markus_baertschi · · Score: 1

    and know a bunch of sales reps using said myths amply for each call

    1. Upgrades really don't matter: The only upgrades I've seen is adding more memory in a underequipped server. In all other cases the better choice is to swap the box.
    2. Corporate data on Mainframes: It depends how you count. If there still is a mainframe it tends to hold the business-critical data. How do you compare the GB account data of your bank with its TB of emails ?
    3. Single Platform: Real life precludes a it. PC's run Microsoft, the business is on a Mainframe and stock exchange software only works on Sun...
    4. CIO, business or tech guy: They need both skills. Business savy to communicate with the rest of the company and tech expertise to keep the tech part on track. Most of the time the tech part suffers, they rely on salestalk and projects are in trouble.
    5. Projects fail: It depends on the way you measure. If on time and budget it the mark, then many fail. Probably because the scope was not defined enough and reality caught up to illusion only during implementation.
    6. IT doesn't scale: IT does scale well enough for most cases. The exception is when a PC hacker designs a corporate data warehouse with VB & Access and the customer was stupid enough to buy it.

    Markus

  62. No...the biggest myth is:IT culture. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Boss: But it IS better than what we have...right?

    IT: Well....technically....

    Boss: Great, let's do that!"

    And that's were most IT goes wrong. You should not only be able to give technical reasons why not. But also fiscal, even psychological reasons if it comes to that.

    Not everythings about the technology. That's why a good CTO is comfortable with business, and the technical aspects.

  63. Myth 7: IT Journalists know the field... by gillbates · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Its amazing just how little these supposed journalists truly know.

    Any technology is scalable...

    Really? I happen to know of a case where someone was fired because they believed this religiously; they insisted that any performance issues the new system might produce could be handled with a server upgrade.

    So they upgraded the server, and what do you know - response times fell. From 300 seconds to 90. The system still wasn't usable, and the manager was fired. Perhaps the most embarassing part was the fact that a back-of-the-napkin analysis would have revealed the flaws in the "Use disk space for memory" design.

    Most IT projects fail...

    Well, well. This is spin at its worst. Yes, only 34% of IT projects come in on time. Another 50% are "a day late and dollar short..." - that is, after the project schedule slips, they end up shipping a product with missing features. General hint for journalist: if you have to redefine words to prove your point, you're probably not telling the truth.

    No, perhaps 70% of projects aren't unmitigated failures, but I'll bet that IT projects fare far worse than other industries:

    • How many unfinished bridges do you know of?
    • How many unfinished housing projects can you name?
    • How many unfinished/incomplete decks and swimming pools have you seen?
    • How many times do EE's scrap a project after a successful prototype has been built, due to project management failure?
    • How many automobile engine projects have failed? The last I can remember is Chevrolet's Vega engine - glass lined cylinders should have been a tip-off right there....

    Yup, IT is still at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to delivering on promises. Not good.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    1. Re:Myth 7: IT Journalists know the field... by pHDNgell · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How many times do EE's scrap a project after a successful prototype has been built, due to project management failure?

      I've seen some incredibly cool products that, um, didn't come out of Apple.

      --
      -- The world is watching America, and America is watching TV.
    2. Re:Myth 7: IT Journalists know the field... by emurphy42 · · Score: 1
      Any technology is scalable...

      Really? I happen to know of a case where someone was fired because they believed this religiously; they insisted that any performance issues the new system might produce could be handled with a server upgrade.

      So they upgraded the server, and what do you know - response times fell. From 300 seconds to 90. The system still wasn't usable, and the manager was fired. Perhaps the most embarassing part was the fact that a back-of-the-napkin analysis would have revealed the flaws in the "Use disk space for memory" design.

      Directly from the article: The reality is that there are ways X can be made to scale and ways to screw up trying.
      Most IT projects fail...

      if you have to redefine words to prove your point, you're probably not telling the truth.

      The person who says "Most IT projects fail" is the one redefining words. An imperfect IT project is like an imperfect college essay - you probably get a B or C on it, not an F.
      No, perhaps 70% of projects aren't unmitigated failures, but I'll bet that IT projects fare far worse than other industries:

      How many unfinished bridges do you know of?

      This starts with users having much less of a clear idea of what they want out of an IT project, compared to their idea of what they want out of a bridge. Clear-minded users drive the (failure and/or imperfection) rate right down.
    3. Re:Myth 7: IT Journalists know the field... by Uggy · · Score: 1
      How many automobile engine projects have failed? The last I can remember is Chevrolet's Vega engine - glass lined cylinders should have been a tip-off right there....

      Aluminum my boy, aluminum. After the aluminum sheathed cylinders went, it was oil oil oil. Lovely stuff

      Hey it's fun nitpicking. *G*

      --
      Toddlers are the stormtroopers of the Lord of Entropy.
    4. Re:Myth 7: IT Journalists know the field... by Eivind · · Score: 1
      Idunno about bridges, but I think that's kinda unfair. A bridge is a pretty well-known standard device. There's like a dozen basic designs, and it's pretty much a question of choosing one and building it at the rigth size.

      I do know the failure rate for new types of satelites. (Hubble, for example, the first space-based large telescope was 40% over budget, and had a wrongly shaped lens, so needed a costly repair adding another 20% to the cost before it actually did anything.

      I know the failure rate for new weapon-systems, not precisely, but well enough to be able to say for sure that 34% full success and 50% partial success would be an order of magnitude improvement.

      I could give a dozen more examples.

  64. for future reference by geekoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    this is how it should go:

    Boss: But it IS better than what we have...right?

    IT: No

    At this point he wonder why, and then you lay on all the negatives, no buts, howevers, or 'maybe if we's'.

    Its called Social skills.

    I have experienced that the statement 'Well, technically..' is never any damn good.It always gets interpeted in a manner that is positive to the listeners opinions, and not the speakers opinion. ;)

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  65. The real reality by Brandybuck · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Reality: Don't pay extra for upgradability; you'll never need it - "When was the last time you swapped out the processors on a production server? Have you ever ripped out a working system's RAID controller and substituted one with bigger cache? How about pulling out a machine's mirrored 18GB Ultra160 SCSI boot drives just to replace them with some 36GB Ultra360 spindles?">/em>

    Come to think of it, we replace and upgrade the drives in our servers all the time. I'm not talking about the disposable 1U racks the mom-and-pop IT house calls "servers", but the very expensive Sun enterprise servers. When a harddrive goes out (and they do, they do) you don't replace the whole fricking server. That's stupidity of the highest magnitude.

    You might not ever need to upgrade the CPU, but you do want to keep that expensive server operational and in use as long as possible. That means additional storage on occasion and replacing the parts that go bad.

    --
    Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
    1. Re:The real reality by emurphy42 · · Score: 1
      When a harddrive goes out (and they do, they do) you don't replace the whole fricking server. That's stupidity of the highest magnitude.

      You might not ever need to upgrade the CPU, but you do want to keep that expensive server operational and in use as long as possible. That means additional storage on occasion and replacing the parts that go bad.

      Directly from the article: "...it's a myth that anyone ever fiddles with a production system except to replace a blown part." (emphasis added)
  66. Yet more myths by JohnCC · · Score: 4, Funny

    The IT industry is picking up. (I hear this from recruitment consultants) It's usually the same job posted three times a week for a month.

    Your IT job is secure (until they can find a cheaper replacement).

    Googles going to make you rich.

  67. Myth #7 by Excelsior · · Score: 2, Funny
    To research this myth, I contacted all the tier-one server manufactures. Not one would formally cooperate when asked for statistics regarding enhancements to their servers, either by sales of upgrade parts or through calls made by their field-service teams.
    Maybe they had work to do with all the business from people upgrading.
    Some said the data wasn't available.
    Oh, a conspiracy! Or perhaps it was because the data wasn't available.
    Others said it was proprietary information that couldn't be released for competitive reasons. All claimed to find the question surprising -- and were interested in reading the results.
    Fortunately, one vendor, who shall remain nameless,
    Ah yes, the nameless vendor. Can we say red flag?
    forwarded the informal comments of a marketing manager, whose name was removed from the e-mail.
    Informal comments of a marketing manager? Are you serious?

    There you have it. InfoWorld has debunked a myth using the informal comments of a nameless marketing manager from a nameless vendor from some unknown date and time at an unknown location.

    Myth #7: That a company whose revenue is based on page-views and number of magazines sold is more credible than a tabloid.
  68. You want baby poo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I'll give you baby poo!

    (A better choice is to forget the colors altogether.)

  69. What is a project? by gelfling · · Score: 1

    One could say that projects don't generally fail for the following reasons:

    Projects are so huge so interdisciplinary they have very poorly formed boundaries between the project and the overall business environment

    Projects are so large that they don't have beginning and end dates, only phases with transitions between the phases.

    We already know how to pay insurance claims. The projects that are coming on line now are related to automating, supporting or synthesizing actual business processes.

  70. urban legends? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    From the article:

    Urban legends run amok in the technology world

    This guy doesn't know what an urban legend is, does he? If someone told you that an old mainframe serviceman actually got stuck inside an IBM mainframe for several days and survived by eating the spare tractor-feed paper thingies from the printer, that'd be an urban legend. But "buying a server that's can be upgraded is beneficial" is not an urban legend. It's a misconception or even just a lack of expertise.

    1. Re:urban legends? by a24061 · · Score: 2, Funny
      If someone told you that an old mainframe serviceman actually got stuck inside an IBM mainframe for several days and survived by eating the spare tractor-feed paper thingies from the printer, that'd be an urban legend.

      Hey, that really happened to a friend of a friend!

  71. Myth Number Eight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's okay to spit.

  72. nah, but be sure to check out the related links... by pHDNgell · · Score: 3, Funny
    • the six big myths in IT
    • don't
    • not
    • do
    • don't
    • does
    • do
    • More stories
    • Also by michael
    --
    -- The world is watching America, and America is watching TV.
  73. Re:Outsourcing vs. Offshoring by mdfst13 · · Score: 1

    "a team situated halfway around the world"

    That is called offshoring, not outsourcing. Outsourcing is often offshore now, but it does not have to be. Outsourcing can be as simple as having Sun do all your hardware installs and repairs.

    Btw, technically, all my work is outsourcing (I am a consultant). I am located in the US but do a lot of work for British customers (so I guess that they are offshoring as well). Many of my customers keep coming back, so I'm taking that to mean that they are happy.

  74. Myth 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Judging by all the Myth No. 7 posts, I can safely say that Myth No 8. is "There is only one Myth No. 7".

  75. On-time projects by SlashingComments · · Score: 2, Informative
    If you work on a financial Market data company all data feed related projects will end on-time. This is an interesting field where the deadline is set by the Stock Exchanges all over the world, so programmers tend to be very sharp and practical.

    However, in my experience, writing code is about 20-30% of a project, 30% or more on RFP/Contracts/legal/Capital allocation stuff, 40% installation, hardware, comms lines etc. etc.

    But end of the day, we in the financial market data business, have to deliver things on time--not before, not after.

    And, yes we have been using programmers from all differnet places on the same project to take advantage of the local language/environment and the time difference.

    I admit that most of my programmers don't last long ...

    --

    - People who believe other people have no right to live, got no right to live ...

    1. Re:On-time projects by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 1

      Been there, done that.. its a fun environment... but only for a while ;)

  76. Assumptions about IT staff by fuzzybunny · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So:

    An official at Oblix concurs. "[IT personnel] like the leverage that they have by keeping it a heterogeneous environment," says Ken Sims, vice president of marketing and business development at Oblix.

    The VP of Marketing and business development thinks this. An engineer who obviously knows what he's talking about.

    What a complete load of crap. We saw this a year or more ago in an Economist article about IT staff wanting nothing more than to save their own jobs in the face of inevitable automation.

    Repeat after me, it's nonsense. Hooey. Claptrap. Most IT personnel I know are too busy keeping things running. And yes, all big shops I know _are_ multiplatform. VMS, Windows, Solaris, HP-UX, proprietary mainframe crap, etc etc etc. You've all seen it.

    I'm sorry, but this is just one example of how this article discredits itself. I hate this kind of shit--it just gives managers dangerous and wrong ideas about how the IT world works.

    --
    Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
  77. Well by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There is another side to that. There are some potential problems with your solution, not saying these are necessairly problems in your specific case, but these are problems I've seen:

    1) Performance. Many proprietary firewalls outperform their OSS counterparts, int eh case of high end ones significantly. This is for a number of reasons, but often because it has ASICs supporting it. You can do something much faster with dedicated hardware than with software. A small, cheap, 66mhz ASIC can decode DVDs, but it takes a P3 500 to do it in software.

    2) Support. When our Netscreen has problems, we can get very high level support, including having an engeneer come out if need be. With an OSS solution, you are on your own. In most cases, this doesn't matter, but if something is critical it can be the difference between an hour of down tiem and a couple days downtime.

    3) Along those lines, it's much easier in the event of an emergency involving the person that supports it. Most OSS solutions I've seen are what I call "80% solutions". They do basically what you need, however they require a fair bit of reworking to do your specific job. No problem, except that means how they work is known only to you. Well, what happens if you die? This is a real question that needs to be considered in the case of critical systems. If it's a major commercial solution, no problem, the company can get support from an authorized agent that will know what they are doing while they franticly find a replacement tech guy. If it's custom OSS, they are SOL, since even a contractor is going to need time to analyze how the hell it all works to fix it.

    Now I'm not trying to say that an OSS solution is never the answer. It's probably the way tto go for, say a small office firewall that is too big and complex for a simple NAT box, but not enough to need real power. However it is not the best solution in all cases.

    There is also skepticism because there are a lot of poor quality OSS projects out there. There are poor quality commercial projects too, but I know that a Cisco or Netscreen firewall is good, it's been proven. I can cite thousands of big, critical networks that use them. I do not know that of the OpenBSD firewall. It does not have the legacy.

    So there ARE good reasons to be skepical.

    1. Re:Well by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 1

      A few questions and remarks.

      First of all, do you have any url to well documented benchmarks that show that those commercial firewalls are faster? My experience, specifically with OpenBSD and pf is the exact opposite from what you say, but annecdotal evidence doesn't mean that much.

      I do know it is an often made claim by commercial vendors, but none could actually provide such data that was verifiable.

      With regards to support and OSS, go talk to IBM, they are damn good at support, and willing to support almost anything you care to run if they have the knowledge. You will be hard pressed to find any other IT company with a better equiped support staff and a good chance of still being there a century from now.

      Then, you said:

      > There are poor quality commercial projects too, but I know that a Cisco or Netscreen firewall is good, it's been proven. I can cite thousands of big, critical networks that use them. I do not know that of the OpenBSD firewall. It does not have the legacy.

      With all respect, the fact that many use something does not make it good, in fact, in technology often the less good solution becomes the most popular contrary to what you'd think.

      I know huge networks that make use of FreeBSD and Linux for their infrastructure, I know a 100k+ employees multinational that uses OpenBSD on x86 hardware for some extremely demanding mailserver/firewall setups that were only implementable with a lot bigger and extremely expensive custom hardware from commercial firewall vendors.

      When mega corporation X uses something that has no direct promotional value, they are not that interested in telling the world they are using it. The vendor may.. but will they know in case of OSS software?

    2. Re:Well by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

      As for faster, it's simple logic. ASICs are much faster than comparable software implemented on general purpose CPUs. That's the reason we have graphics cards. It would take a massive cluster to yeild the rendering capabilities of one Ati Radeon 9800, because the Radeon is an ASIC (ASIC means application specific integrated circut) designed only to do graphics, whereas an Athlon is a general purpose processor.

      Benchmarks I do not have becuse all of them I find worthless, they are all based on synthetic data. Well, as we proved first hand, synthetic traffic performance does not equal real traffic performance.

      We tried two Cisco PIX 535 firewalls on our network. They are all software, though a fully integrated hardwre solution, no ASICs. They are rated to a Gb of traffic. No problem, we only have like 300Mb of external bandwidth, so they should handle it right? Wrong, we killed them. They couldn't handle the nature of the traffic of 30,000 desktops and servers.

      Their new hardware PIX Blades, on the other hand, which DO use ASICs, work great.

      This is the idea behind layer-3 routing, and why it's so powerful. You route the first packet, which takes place in software, you then establish a flow and switch the rest of the packets, which takes place in hardware. Allows you to handle loads that a normal layer-2 router of the same size would buckle under.

      As for support, the question is do they provide support for this product in this application? I don't care that IBM supports OSS, I care that they support the solution I'm using. Doesn't do me any good if they don't. Cost is also a factor. Generally, part of the price of proprietary firewalls is support. Since the support for OSS is extra, what does it cost? You can't ignore those costs when you are claiming a money saving operation.

      As for proof, well trust and status as reliable are things that are earned with time and numbers, not something that can be gotten quickly. It's basic empiricism. You don't prove something to be reliable, you provide evidence that it is not reliable. Only with sufficient evidence can you claim something to be reliable and worthy of trust.

      You an see the commercial solution in action working well all over. Come to the University of Arizona (where I'm citing in my examples), there are teo redundant Pix Blades that do firewall duty for the entire campus. That's over 30,000 (probably pusing 40,000 now) comptuers active at the same time doing all the kinds of traffic imaginable.

      Now if you think you can cobble together an OSS solution of Linux routers and OpenBSD firewalls that will do the job as well as the Ciscos for as well and for less money, then go make your sales pitch to the unviersity. However, don't be supprised if when they test your gear on a limited scale it dies under the load. That you can put X Mb and X sessions through with a traffic generator bears no relation to the performance when it hits a real network of that magnitude.

      Again, not saying that an OSS solution like this is wrong in every case, but many peopel here get way too gung ho and claim it'll be so much better and cheaper, and can't see why management isn't just all enthused. Well, it's because good IT managers understand the reality that there is a reason to pay for high end proprietary systems.

    3. Re:Well by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 1

      Well, the things I'm dealing with do involve handling enormous amounts of mail and web traffic, so probably a slightly different segment.

      At any rate, one of my friends works with asic based solutions on pci cards with either freebsd or linux on the hosting pcs. The solution is quite interesting because it also overcomes the bandwidth limits of the bus as long as you can stay on one card.

      I don't have much experience with that myself, but I definitely see your point with regards to using hardware solutions. It does have certain disadvantages as well with regards to flexibility of course.

      I have exactly the same experience with Cisco PIX but that is not a problem inherent to software firewalls but more to their implementation (and probably the design specs of that thing). I have had them crash and reboot or become increasingly 'clogged' and dropping connections at random under heavy load (as in, dropping from their state table, not just packet loss.. that was more the 'clogged' effect)

      At any rate, if it is cheaper depends a lot on what you need. IBM may not be your prefered supplier for firewalls, and I don't think they really try to be that either, so support may cost you in their case. There are likely more competitive smaller vendors around in your area, I brought IBM into the story purely because they provide quite a solid fallback option.

      The point with OSS and support is actually that multiple vendors can compete in supporting and maintaining the same product so you never get locked in to one vendor specifically.

      Another issue is that with something of the scale of a university, there is a lot to gain from doing first line support for your critical infrastructure yourself, which in case of many OSS solutions is possible because both hardware and software are commodities. There is no real cost in having spare hardware around, and replacement can be so easy that you can have it done before someone can come from the vendor with a replacement part even if they are in the same street already.

      It is a bit far for me to go there, and I am not sure if I'd try this with an OpenBSD or FreeBSD or Linux based solution there, it would depend a lot on the exact requirements.

      Most environments would be a lot better of not having any routing between their internal network and the outside world, and using application level proxies instead for both directions where they do need to communicate. No need for fancy firewalls there, very simple packet filter, no routing, and one or more proxy servers can do a lot better then any layer-3 router (uh.. is it me or does routing rather imply layer 3...)

      Will it be cost effective? well, that depends. I'm sure that specialized hardware does have a potential performance edge, so there is no doubt a point where it is more cost effective because the commodity hardware to provide similar performance either gets too complex and expensive itself, or just doesn't exist (pci bus is a huge bottleneck here in many cases). Their real advantage to me seems to be in latency however (little difference for first packet, lot more for subsequent packets)

      I don't think that everything should be OSS, but when you talk firewalls and supposedly scientific environments like a university, chances are that your internally available expertise far surpasses what the vendor has when it comes to security and programming related skills, so there is imho a rather strong argument for getting something that comes with the source.

      As a totally unrelated sidenote... we seem to typo in a rather similar way ;P

    4. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have tested and documented Cisco FWSM with 18K ACL's and they performed at full wire speed (100Mbps) for a fortune 300 company. I also did th same tests with a 525 and it maxed at 94Mbps.

      I'm not sure about OpenBSD though.

    5. Re:Well by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 1

      > I have tested and documented Cisco FWSM with 18K ACL's and they performed at full wire speed (100Mbps) for a fortune 300 company.

      Yes, thequestion is, with what latency, and what kind of filtering.

      > I also did th same tests with a 525 and it maxed at 94Mbps.

      Again, same question.

      > I'm not sure about OpenBSD though.

      I have had both OpenBSD and FreeBSD max out at over 95mb/sec with a latency of less then 1ms, and with full inspection of all packet headers.

      I have had 525s and similar drop state because of the state table overflowing, crash due to running out of memory at critical moments etc. I have seen OpenBSD crash as well, but on crash it reported what I had to change to make it work (mbufs). FreeBSD 'tuned' itself more properly for the situation by default it seems, and on its most recent versions won't crash on such situations even when mistuned (tho older versions did)

      That is the difference between the real world and bandwidth measurement in theoretical situations. There is more to a reliable router/switch/firewall then its bandwidth really.

      I have seen the 525 crash on its content scanning, and eventho all situations I am aware of were fixed by Cisco, none was fixed in hours or even days, leaving the network vulnerable to a denial of service attack. This was also a direct security issue because one of the protected servers was the primary DNS, and people were trying to spoof that machine (for which it is very helpfull if you can kick the real machien off the net)

      One was as simple as passing content through its filter that consisted of 16gb of zeros being compressed into a zip file.

      The machine I used for testing this would cost approx $400, setup time was approx 2 hours, which made the total cost of it way below $1000. Tell me where I can get a 525 with on-site installation and configuration for that.

      It is running FreeBSD now and used for production.
      Time for support so far (over 10 months time) is less then a day, and that was due to a change in network layout and requirements, not for actual failure of the hardware or software. The change to FreeBSD took less then an hour btw.

      It does content filtering as well for smtp and http traffic (besides virus scanning and spam filtering), and has a nice ids package.

      But I do use quite soem cisco hardware. I use it if I need somethign that is primarely router or switch. I will use their ip filtering options also, but that does not a firewall make.

      When I need a firewall, I will gladly skip on them, they may be a match in performance (tho in my experience they are a bit less good, definitely not better) but there is a lot more to a firewall then how fast it can throw packets from one interface to the other.

      First of all, I use a firewall because I am taking a security measure.

      For this, it is rather important that the firewall does its job well with regards to its security features.

      Reliable statekeeping makes for a better filter, it reduces possibilities to hijack sessions and delivering invalid packets to servers that are supposedly protected by the firewall.

      It is my experience (which seems to be shared by many on the various security mailinglists) that pf does a much better job in this then cisco, and with a much better performance. (btw, the number of ACLs is virtually irrelevant with pf, the 'path' that is followed through the chains of acls is what determines performance)

      Then there is the matter of content filtering. Here Cisco definitely starts out with an advantage, it is a standard feature, and within some limits, it does its job. On Open/FreeBSD I will have to solve this with a variety of packages dependign on the protocols that I use. This makes this setup more complex to manage, and means that the person configuring the firewall will have to have better knowledge of what they are doing.
      (suggested packages, apache + mod_security for http and any mta you like, all of them support filtering)

    6. Re:Well by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

      For an environment like a campus, routing is a must. The fact aside that we have two subnets non contigous subnets that need to be routerd between, even if we just used one you can't have 128,000 IPs in one broadcast domain and expect any traffic to get through the mess. You simply MUST break up the broadcast domains. For safety sake, 255 (a class C) is usually the biggest you should go, it's not often there is a good reason to have more than that many computers in the same broadcast domain.

      There's also reason to want to use routing so you can use VLANs for security and management reasons. If you have a building where different logical groups are spread across the physical building. You set it up so that they are assigned a VLAN based on their MAC address. Works quite well, but requires routing.

      As for a packet filter, that's one of the points of layer-3 switching (I made a mistake if I tped routing). If you do it on a router, or a classic software firewall, it's all done in software. That means that every single packet needs to be analyzed by the CPU. Well, you get going on this with a number of rules and plenty of random traffic, you slam your CPU in a hurry. Layer-3 switching avoids that. Only the frist packet to establish the flow hits the CPU, the rest are switched in dedicated hardware, which can operate at line speed.

      As for programmers, no that's a major falicy. That's something I've noticed about many OSS people, they assume that if you are a tech guy, it means you shold be a programmer. No, actually, that's not the case. Network Operations runs the firewalls, etc, and they don't really have any programmers, they have network analysts. The head guy is really, really smart. Has a CCIE, getting a second, can configure and manage networks like nobody's bussiness. Not a programmer though. He can do some simple shell scripting, but that's about it. His expertiese is networks, not code.

      Even if it was, is his time well spent on writing code? He's paid to make sure the network functions, and expands. That's what his time is needed for.

      So you are talking about hiring another person. They also need to be highly competent because "oops the campus went down becaue I fucked up my code" isn't an acceptable excuse. So this is a recurring cost, their saliry. If that exceeds the cost of the systems their code was designed to replace, it's not worth it.

      I think part of the problem is that we are just thinking of networks on a different scale. You seem to be thinking of networks as small office type things, with under 100 computers. I am thinking of networks on the scale of 10,000+ computers, or networks of those little networks. What holds true for small networks, doesn't hold true for the large ones.

      You are right, that for a little office, layer-3 switching is more or less worthless. Even if they want to do VLANs, a router can handle all the traffic, and having only one router it won't increase latency that much. However it is a godsend for large networks. There are plenty of cases where ou are commuicating with someone on the other side of campus that requires you to go through 8 switches and 4 routers (layer-3 switches really). None the less, we maintain >1ms latency in almost all cases, and almost 0 packet loss. On top of all that, the whole thing (well not all of it yet, the upgrade isn't quite done) is redundant up to the switch that goes to the jack. So other than that switch, the failure of one device at any level does not lead to a loss of service.

      A setup like that isn't trivial, and I'm not aware of any OSS components that could reasonably do it. There is also the maintainability side of it, in that you want all those thousands of devices to be easily maintainable by the 6 people in Netops that actually work on them. If you cust the hardware costs in half by going OSS but needed to quadruple the staff to make them work, then you aren't going to save any money in the long run.

      It reminds me of an amusing statement "Linux is only free if your

    7. Re:Well by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 1

      2 things.

      - Yes you need routing, and a router is the appropriate device. Also, I quite see the usefullness of vlans,

      If it is the appropriate type of device for building a firewall that protects your network from another network is an entirely different issue.

      - When you look for a solution, you define your requirements and look which one fits them best. If none provide an exact match, you select the one that provides the closest match, taking into account the priority of the different issues where you have a mismatch. Performance needs to be acceptable, but beyodn that it has a lower priority then providing the required level of security. If there is no difference in the later, then best performance will be a more relevant argument again in the decision.

      What you do not do is take the feature list from solution 1 and see how well the feature list of solution 2 matches it. (I know this is common practise, but it is not a good way to find a suitable solution)

    8. Re:Well by LittleLebowskiUrbanA · · Score: 1

      Really enjoyed everybody's comments here and learned a lot. Just wanted to mention how nice it is to avoid the flaming/karma whoring that is so common on /. nowadays.

    9. Re:Well by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 1

      Hmm, rereading the discussion a bit, I think your last post warants a slightly longer answer.

      First of all, when you are going to 'tie' a bunch of computers together, you rather get yourself a switch.

      With this you can go from a very simple $20 4 port ethernet switch upto a huge device from for example Cisco, and you can also build one using a PC in special hardware.

      The last option is only cost effective if there is somethign really special that you want from it, and that you can't achieve with standard solutions.

      At any rate, regardless of it beign 4 or 40k computers, just like you, I'd end up using a nice switch (or a room full of them)

      You may also need routing between (virual) lans, dependign on size.

      You may also need a border device (or devices) between your internal network and the outside world.

      When I talk about a firewall, I talk about the constructuion of devices that seperates your network from the outside world. I am aware that many slightly more advanced switches have ip filtering functionality, which is very usefull, but is not really enough for at least the many cases that I have been involved in (for arguments mentioned earlier)

      At any rate, for the purposes you mention, I'd most likely end up with the same solution as you, but for protecting my network from the outside world, and for example for seperating my servers from the rest of the network, I want something more specialized then what is basicly a generic switch that happens to be able to act as router and has ip filter functionally.

      For as far as management goes, snmp agents exist, web based administration exists, and administrating 1000s such devices is quite possible (think Yahoo, Google, they have to deal with exactly the same maintenance issue for their cluster nodes, the solutions do exist, and have proven to be practical)

      Cost.. if this is the only unix like environment you will use, then cost of figuring it out may be high, but if you already use unix like environments, much of the investment in figuring it out is reusable, and so should not be counted against that first device really.

      You are of course right that Linux is free as in beer only if your time is free, but becauuse I already invested time in learning to use such environments (my personal favorite is FreeBSD, not Linux btw) then the next time you haev to setup/configure/use one, you logically do not have to do the same investment again.

      You did at one day have to learn whatever the system is you are using today as well.

      It is legitimate to compare those 2, it is not very legitimate to use it as a cost argument for one and not the other.

      Given that this particular cost applies in both cases, the difference between being free upfront or not remains the same, but as you correctly point out, is only part of the argument.

      Anyway, thanks for the enjoyable discussion, its always good to be reminded of what 'the other guys' do that are busy on the same kind of networks as me ;)

    10. Re:Well by Eivind · · Score: 1
      Maintaining >1ms latency ain't that difficult, really.

      Okay okay, I'm nitpicking. I'll stop.

  78. Choice quote by sharkey · · Score: 1
    In dealing with some of our clients, it is almost shocking to see some large organizations' financials being managed in a couple of Excel spreadsheets.

    How about some names? Any "larger org" doing THAT is an organization I want to stay far away from.

    --

    --
    "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    1. Re:Choice quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I'd name one, but I want to keep my job, thankyouverymuch.

      I've learned that where I work when a new project comes down, the first place to look for critical corporate data is an Excel spreadsheet.

      If that fails, some genius has it stored in an MS Access database.

      You don't want to know how users keep multi-Gigabyte databases stored under MS-Access. Really. You don't.

  79. Myth 3 by Wile_E_Peyote · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So why even put Myth 3 in there if it isn't a myth?

  80. Better myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they failed to address the myth that Linux is more secure than Windows.

  81. Max out your server by junkgoof · · Score: 1

    All manufacturers love clients who buy "potential." Check the price structures, you can usually buy two small boxes now for the price of one box twice as big. If you buy a box and consider doubling the size 18 months later it will probably cheaper to buy a new box twice as fast. If the box has space for 24 CPUs, get 24 CPUs, if you don't need 24 CPUs get the next lower model...

    I've seen disks swapped (and I've swapped a number, old 9GB disks for O/S, new 144 GB disk for data files), but I've very rarely seen CPUs or RAM purchased for a server. Come to think of it I'm a sysadmin and I've very rarely seen a box pushed to its limits (CPUs, yes, RAM for a JVM, yes, disks, yes, whole boxen, only when someone does something bad). Most companies overbuy (the others get slashdotted).

    --
    You got me into this! You were the ideologue! I'm only a poor assassin! - Twenty evocations, Bruce Sterling
    1. Re:Max out your server by TykeClone · · Score: 1
      I bought RAM for a server about 7 years ago.

      We spent around $1K for 128MB RAM (I think) - it was before the price on RAM dropped tremendously.

      I'm no longer using the server, but still have the memory :)

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
  82. Failure to Plan = Planning to Fail by unfortunateson · · Score: 3, Interesting
    According to the Project Management Institute (PMI)(of which I'm a member but not quite yet certified as a Project Management Professional) failure is any condition that isn't planned for, or approved through change control, including:
    • Cost -- took more money than planned for
    • Time -- took longer than planned for
    • Quality -- product is not of the planned quality
    • Scope -- project does not match planned scope which includes situations where additional features were added . The PMI considers this "gold plating" and a failure on the part of the project manager to keep the project within scope.
    • Customer Satisfaction

    Also ironic is that the above five items are called the "Triple Constraint"
    --
    Design for Use, not Construction!
  83. It's hard for a CTO to wield enough power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I was CTO at a small company that was very reliant on its technology. During the startup phase, we made very careful design and purchasing decisions, hired an outstanding tech team and ended up with a robust system that did everything asked of it, would scale almost indefinitely, and would fail gracefully. The whole tech side knew we'd done a good job.

    It was extremely difficult to demonstrate the value to the rest of the company. They just had no tech savvy at all. I can certainly take some of the blame for not being as good as some others at promoting the tech team, but because everything worked flawlessly, the company as a whole assigned no value to it, and it became very hard to get funding.

    If we'd built a culture of missed deadlines, failing equipment and feature creep, it would have been easy to get more money.

  84. Yet Another prevalent IT myth by arose · · Score: 1

    Linux isn't ready for the dekstop.

    --
    Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
  85. gentoo? what are you running it as? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    obviously not a desktop environment, but do you trust it as a server? (at least running critical data?) I worry that letting my hobby duct tape OS run as a critical part of any infrastructure will only increase the time spend troubleshooting trivial integration efforts (silly things like glibc playing nicely with applications).

    As a server, how old and trusted (I smell Debian here) must a Gentoo box be to be trusted? I would never trust my duct tape backyard projects to real work, so what should make me trust the same in an OS?

  86. but Lunix is free... and yes my time is worthless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
    as I won the lottery, live alone, and have a full day of free time then Linux is the perfect answer for me. My 4 weeks of time trolling forums and google results only to then find out that my motherboard southbridge doesn't play well with the library version that package x.y.z requires. I end up with a dead system, or one that does not meet my needs. More weeks pass and I struggle to find solutions to the simplest of tasks. RTFM the forum regulars yell yet the manuals do not exist, are out of date, or I can prove that yes in fact I did search through the shitty phpBB search mechanism only to find useless political rants that have no technical bearing or merely finding 10's of posts asking the same question as mine that are unanswered. (after all, why answer technical questions on a distro forum when you can spend all your time posting about how Kerry or Bush are complete loons and gays should be allowed to marry and adopt gray elephants with cancerous trunks in South America.

    So when did forum campers and MMOG campers become the same breed of oxygen thieves? Who knows? I sure don't. I just want something to let me get back to work and not troubleshoot for endless days.

    Linux... it just NOT works.

  87. Myth no. 0 by tcgroat · · Score: 2, Funny

    People prefer going back to the main page to find the link to the next part of the article, instead of having the obvious "next" button.

  88. Another Myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Duke Nukem Forever isn't the longest running April Fool's joke ever.

  89. Real IT myth. by JollyFinn · · Score: 1

    Slashdot, stuff that matters.

    --
    Emacs is good operating system, but it has one flaw: Its text editor could be better.
  90. My choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love SCO. Although I am a foward looking person, I believe their stock is a must buy. They have a product line that is outstanding and they have no choice but to go up.

    M

  91. Disagree by Spazmania · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can only work from my own experience, but:

    IT Myth 1: Server upgrades matter

    At a nimble shop (i.e. mine) they do. Of course I don't upgrade the servers while in production. Duh! I remove them from production, upgrade them (often by mixing and matching parts), and then assign a new task. When I'm at the top of my form, the hardware goes through about three different production cycles before being retired for power or reliability reasons. Each cycle sees it in a substantially different configuration where it has to meet different requirements.

    Not everybody does things this way... Some always launch a new production server with newly purchased hardware. But if they do they're spending more money than they need to.

    IT Myth 4: CIOs and CTOs have a greater need for business savvy than tech expertise

    Nevertheless, CIOs usually get the job because they are business savvy guys who have found a functional middle-ground with their tech-savvy underlings. They are, in other words, slightly better listeners than the average businessman.

    Technical experts to not mistake CIOs for technical experts. That's left for other businessmen and journalists to do.

    IT Myth 5: Most IT projects fail

    Since the big corporate shift to Java, Visual Basic and dot-net, few projects fail outright anymore. The language structures themselves tend to prevent the most blatent mistakes that would otherwise require experts to fix. Of course, that allows mediocre developers to talk their way into senior positions and it leaves them every bit as mediocre when it comes to solving subtle problems. The projects often end up almost-sort-of-working (you know what I mean!) and they do get deployed. They also get replaced with another almost-sort-of-working product two years down the line after it has becomes obvious that the original software isn't making the grade.

    The real difference is that a failed project in Java is marginally deployable while a failed project in C probably can't leave the shop.

    Meanwhile, as something of a corollary to Paul Graham's piece about programming languages, the few projects which use another language tend to attract and group good developers who don't want to compete with the posers for senior positions. With less dispersal of the talented, those projects have a much better chance of success than they used to.

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
  92. "On the net they don't know you're a dog." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are BUSTED...

    FROM :
    http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy/archives/001 243 .html

    November 09, 2003
    The BSOD is Back

    Starting to have major problems with Mordion (my notebook) again... The hard drive (yes, not the fan this time) has returned to its former habit of making obnoxious clicking/tweeting sounds and crashing the OS. (Note it only crashes when the noise is made. I don't consider that coincidental.) I just got a BSOD about an hour ago -- it was a 0x77 Kernel Stack Inpage Error, with the specific string listed with MS as being either a boot sector virus, drive controller problems, or mechanical failure.

    Considering the noises this thing is making, and that it checked out clean when carefully checked with an updated copy of NAV, I'm pretty sure it's a physical problem with the drive. Ugh. The most annoying aspect of this is that if I do bring it back to CompUSA before it's totally, utterly dead, they'll probably just hold it for six weeks and act confused when it doesn't BSOD constantly like last time.

    Luckily for me, I was able to pick up a 50-disc spindle of Memorex CD-Rs on eBay last week for $6 (well, plus $7 shipping, but that still is a lot better than retail!), so I can do a proper backup again. My last backup is a bit outdated, in part because I was running low on discs and couldn't afford to buy a new set. I'd do a full backup to my tower, but it's unfortunately in one of the rooms that has no power, and I haven't had the energy to relocate it.

    My little brother has a DVD-R now. I'm jealous, I want one! *grin* Maybe I'll luck out and Mordion will suffer motherboard failure just in time to be warranty-replaced by a model with a DVD-R. I'd say that's extremely unlikely, except that's pretty much what happened with my first Toshiba laptop as well as the Compaq they replaced it with, which effectively earned me a brand-new notebook a year later. For anybody wondering, btw, unless you want to suddenly have a new computer under warranty, don't do stupid stuff like run processor-intensive software on your notebook for hours while it's in a padded laptop-case that just might not allow the system to dissapate heat. Especially if the case happens to also block the fans.

    No, I did not do that to them entirely. In fact, it was *safe* to run them in that case most of the time, as they usually ran cool enough -- the big problem (imho) was that I tried it while playing online graphical games for a day at a time. I could be wrong, though. It might also be that my incredible clumsiness from dyspraxia damaged something, because shortly before each computer died, I had accidentally bumped it severely into something.

    I'd like to say that despite the intermittent instability, I'm really happy with how durable my Sony metal (aluminum?) notebook is. Mordion has now been dropped on the floor, knocked off desks, done literal backflips off the bed, hit rather hard with solid objects because of my depth perception issues... "He" has landed hard enough to crack the case on a solid PCMCIA card in half, and at some point during one of the falls off the bed, landed on its screen hard enough to actually break the latch off.

    (Sadly re-attaching the piece was a failure. A scary one, at that: I glued the latch back on, but it broke off while in the lock because I wasn't careful to make sure the glue was totally dry, and then fell through the slot. From the way the rattling stopped after a while, I have a horrible suspicion that the piece glued itself to one of the internal components.)

    Why am I saying all of this? Well, mostly because I feel bad for griping about a computer that actually has come through absolute abuse and continued to work. My Sony metal Clie, Maree, has endured similar-but-worse with no problems aside from those caused by my experimenting heavily with software and "cracks." So the truth is, yes, I have a notebook with some drive issues, but considering the way it is treated -- not by my own choice so much as my incredible motor-skill issues -- it's actually doing impressively well.

    Okay, more to post on other issues, I'll shut up now. *grin*
    Posted by moggy at November 09, 2003 07:17 PM | TrackBack

  93. Here's something to retrain your CIO/CTO by Phatmanotoo · · Score: 2, Informative

    I recently came across this book, Business Information Technology. It is right on the spot, targeted at those CTOs with poor scientific or technical backgrounds. Highly recommended.

  94. And another by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MYTH: Hypertext is about making obscure, uninformative links labelled "here","will", "do" and "that" :/

  95. Computer Science degree = Worthless by B_SharpC · · Score: 1

    A Computer Science /IT degree is worthless. I picked up a Masters degree in CS quite recently. I received a 4.0 GPA, top of my class. It is worthless. Good thing a corporation paid for the worthless rag. I would NOT have taken on debt for something so useless. Extreme caution is wise in this debt-usury society.

    I sought out the CS degree to get a firsthand view in the industry. The biggest letdown I learned are techies themselves. They are so socially inept they allow Congress to destroy their industry.
    (re: Google Dr Matloff Myth Software Labor Shortage)

    Professions like Doctors and Dentists have political Unions, like the AMA & ADA, that provide "Congress protection". Programmers are just too stupid to protect themselves politically. Schools want me to teach Computer Science because of my perfect 4.0 GPA. Never. It is a horrible industry. Techies, like the blinded deer in the headlights, stupidly stand by in their political illiteracy, while Congress destroys their industry. Sorry to be blunt, but programmers and techies, as a group are such socially inept losers. It is not worth my time. :-)

    --
    Score & Karma: SASA: Slashdot Approval Seekers Anonymous
  96. Myth: The Documentation is up to date... by stkpogo · · Score: 1

    it says so in the manual,

  97. You haven't a clue about what you're talking about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With all due respect sir, you have no idea about what you're talking about. To be frank, you sound like a PHB in one of those IT departments from Hell.

    You *are* aware that Cisco has diliberately broken their products, and have put backdoors into them? They've even admitted it. So your overpriced firewall is already broken, and probably hacked already. You *do* know that Cisco itself was hacked, and their source code stolen?

    Secondly, have you *ever* spoken to people who develop the closed-source firewall products? I've interviewed dozens over the years. As engineers, they are almost (90%+) clueless about security. The simple concept of a stack overflow alone thows many for a loop. If you're lucky, they might have heard of it. But it wasn't a big concern during development.

    Finally, you're point about the implementor being hit by a truck is the only valid point you raise. If your IT department hasn't documented and set up a replacement proceedure that can be executed on a moments notice, you've only done half the job. Even bringing in a new Closed-source box is going to take time to set things up, especially if the person doing so isn't familiar with the product and/or revision.

    So, in a nutshell, you make absolutely no knowledgeable comments about what you're speaking of. The only one you've impressed is yourself.

  98. it says a lot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    bullshit artistry is at an alltime high. Where I work, (work mind you) the most important thing is to reinvent the wheel and bullshit that once you catch a clue on why some dude suggesting that you do it xyz way, you actually ALWAYS knew it.

    Then try and bullshit more about how you know about pretty much anything and then sling some shitty code together and think you are a programmer. Then focus on interupting others that do have a clue so that you can appear to be the expert. Throw in a mixture of rejecting assistance and actually pinching people out of helping you (i.e. guarding your little empire like a dog would do with a bone that they have not chewed on in months... but yet growls at anyone who happens by)

    Don't forget more bullshit about how apparently while others were doing their tasks while you were fucking off and creating more abortion like programs that any 15 year old that picked up a book on "Learn Perl in 15 minutes" would never dream of committing to the world you somehow know EVERYTHING there is to know about development. (I hereby excuse myself for that horrible runon because I can)

    Throw in slackers aplenty that spend all their time that is not stuck writing shitty 3rd grader scripts or surfing here on slashdot, playing java/shockwave games and then bitching constantly for things that other departments do that you yourself will in 5 minutes make a completely different but also self serving argument that in your mind justifies.

    Oh, don't forget to ignore all efforts of improvement... after all, shouldn't your incoherant bitching (much like uh... this post) be enough to change the world? Why should you then add effort to record cognizant ideas and constructive criticism or heaven forbide, actually work towards making it better? You have java games to get back to.

    Remember, if you apply no other systematic method throughout your day, let it be hypocrisy coupled with a refusal to admit lack of knowledge in an effort to improve.

    In short, I say the problem with IT is the promotion (double entendre) of asshole-itis. Those rare shops that value creativeness, skill, effort and teamwork are sadly those shops that eventually turn into the corporate morale-crushing machines full of empty suits.

    Ok, big breath now... I am done, please mark this as the troll it is and move on