In Indianapolis this morning, it took till about 8:30 to finish getting the electronic machines working in about 175 precincts. But these are the handicapped accessible machines that almost no one uses - they cost $10,000 each. People vote paper ballots that get optically scanned. Gilmore fans who object to showing ID without a warrant are offered provisional ballots, which then don't get counted. My lawsuit about that continues: joellpalmer.blogspot.com
In Delaware County, home of Ball state, polling hours have been extended to 8:30 pm because MicroVote machines weren't working at first.
Electionlawblog.org is one place to follow glitch reports during the day. +2 informative insightful
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID= /20061106/LOCAL19/611060453
IndyStar.com Metro & State Politics
4:02 PM November 6, 2006
GOP fires telephone campaign company
Automated call illegal in Indiana
Powered by Topix.net
By Jon Murray
jon.murray@indystar.com
The Indiana Republican Party has fired a company that made recorded calls around the state on behalf of its candidates' campaigns.
Marion County Democrats on Saturday had accused the Republicans of placing "robo-calls" after two voters provided voice mail messages asking them to vote for Brizzi in Tuesday's election. One complaint was filed Friday with Indiana Attorney General Steve Carter, a Republican.
State GOP spokesman Robert Vane said this afternoon that after investigating, party officials fired Virginia-based Conquest Communications Group. They refused to pay the company because it was using recorded messages.
"That is not what we contracted for," Vane said. The Republicans intended for all campaign calls to be conducted "100 percent live," he said, but instead the company used a live introduction followed by a recording.
Efforts were being made to contact Conquest.
Vane declined to say how much the party still owed the company, which also used recorded messages to promote other candidates.
Marion County Democratic Chairman Ed Treacy said there was no live introduction in the Brizzi calls. "That is a lie," he said, noting that only one voice could be heard during each voice mail message. Permission was never requested to play the recording, he said.
Under Indiana law, a recorded message can only be placed if it is first introduced by a person who seeks and gets permission to play the message.
"The attorney general better do something about it, or he has absolutely zero credibility," Treacy said.
Staci Schneider, Carter's spokeswoman, said she had no update about the Brizzi calls. The office investigates all complaints about recorded calls, she said.
Vane said the party's legal staff did not think the law had been violated. If a voice mail box asks the caller to leave a message, Vane said, that meets the consent requirement.
Democrat Melina Kennedy, a former deputy mayor of Indianapolis, is running for prosecutor against Brizzi.
+1 informative
I recommend nolo press, either, how to win in small claims court, or how to win in small claims court in california. www.nolo.com ?
I am an attorney, have sued in small claims a few times, and verify what Bennet says in the article. Bennett, btw, is a cool guy, long history of hactivism with peacefire and other groups. His approach is to use both technical solutions and legal solutions.
My state's (indiana) Attorney General has been going after automated political telemarketers, and winning.
Usually I'm a free speech absolutist, but I agree pre-recorded junk calls are a pain and worth fighting.
Have any of you had to take a personality test to get a job? Should I do it, or just keep looking?"
One time at a car dealership, I was given a set of tests. Showed I was the smartest applicant they'd ever had, extremely ambitious, with no social skills at all.
So here I am posting to slashdot... My current day job involves scoring tests. OKcupid.com is a site where you can take lots of tests for fun or design your own, and use the test results as a basis for social networking.
An a law isn't a law, if it has already been found to be unconstitutional. There is a body of SC precedent that holds that (1) anonymity is a protected free speech right,
You are certainly right that the precedents say such speech is protected. Talley v California, McIntyre v Ohio, ACLF, Watchtower v Stratton. Text at majors.blogspot.com However, for 5 years I've been unable to find local counsel and a plaintiff to challenge New Jersey's existing bans on certain forms of anonymous speech, of the "vote for smith" variety. And let's say I find them, and file suit, and win. Next year the same idiot introduces another bill to do the same thing, and we start over. In theory, suits like that should generate enough legal fees to be self-funding. In practice, over the past ten years I've gone broke doing these - partly my own ineptness - and not been able to obtain the result of getting these rules blocked, or getting them to stop writing new unconstitutional rules. Perhaps some form of more direct action would appropriate - anybody got this guy's home phone number and home address? We can all call to congratulate him on his fine bill, or mail him a coconut.
Well, look, i think the "right to anonymous travel" is one of the weaker arguments Gilmore makes, although I did send one of his lawyers some info on ACLU v Heller, a recent 9th circuit case upholding anonymity.
About Greyhound - one time I took Greyhound, round trip through Chicago where I was petitioning the government for redress of grievances - I was arguing Majors v Abell, a case about anonymity, before Judge Posner.
They wanted to search my bags before letting me take the bus home; I didn't want to be searched. The goon wouldn't tell me who he was, which suggested to me he knew he was acting illegally. Greyhound didn't respond adequately to my letter objecting. John sent me some email encouraging me to keep at it, but I let that one slide; I have other higher priorities. I admire John for fighting these battles that those of us with lesser resources would have a hard time with. We all need to be concerned about losing our right to travel and associate and speak, a drop at a time, and look for those opportunities where it makes sense to take a stand. Gilmore v Gonzales, Hiibel, that lady on the bus in Denver,Debbie Daniels, were each battles worth fighting. We lose a few. We lose a lot. But we win one here or there, enough positive feedback to keep fighting. No news yet at papersplease.org, but my guess is the next step will be to move for en banc review by the 9th circuit, which might at least get a dissent. Then the Supreme Court probably won't take the case.
One thing we could do about this case - if a few of us wrote our congresscritters asking for copies of the secret law, we might get answers, or not. Last time I was Greyhounding through Chicago, they didn't touch my bags.
Aside from the fact that this has nothing to do with your rights online: It helps to know who Gilmore is. A few examples: He created the alt. hierarchy, back before Canter & Seigel brought down usenet. He cofounded EFF.
1) Explain how my inability to travel anonymously prevents my petitioning the goverment for the redressing of grievances 2) Point to where in the constitution they said you were guaranteed anonymity
1)'s a little tricky. It's not so much "prevents" as chills and infringes on. The right to travel to the seat of government to petition for redress is one of the privileges and immunities protected by the 14th amendment p&i clause. 2) We have the first amendment because Peter Zenger was busted for running a printing press to print anonymous criticism of the king's goons. Talley v California, 1960, explains that the right to free speech includes anonymity and privacy. Thomas, concurring in McIntyre v Ohio Elections Commission, explains the history in more detail. The other two cases that discuss the constitutional right to anonymity are American Constitutional Law Foundation and Watchtower v Stratton. You can read those cases at majors.blogspot.com or findlaw.com.
SS/Medicaid is an insurance policy for those too incompetent, or ignorant, to do better for themselves.
Wrong. It is an..... extortion racket.
With a little selective editing, I've come to agree with you. What are taxes about? Oh to build stuff like libraries... but google is a free library for 6 billion people. Post offices? Ditto. Except the stamps are free and the mail gets there quicker. Infrastructure for communications systems? Ditto. Space program? They're working on it. Public education? They're working on it. Scientific research? Doing it. Invading weaker countries? Well, no... I don't care how little google or its founders pay in taxes.
ad_icon Subscribe to The Post Recent Posts Some Comments Returned New Business Section Features Comments Turned Off Deborah Howell Responds washingtonpost.com Wins Video Awards Categories Content washingtonpost.blog etc. Right where it's been. Nothing to see here folks.
Is this an article or an opinion piece (ie. Slashdot via FoxNews)? Yes. It's by Declan McCullagh. Declan is an advocacy journalist. A traditional journalist would have been less likely to know about annoy.com and Thomas's concurrence in McIntyre v Ohio Elections Commission. Declan runs the politech list, and writes for Cnet. If I recall correctly, he was a student government leader at Carnegie-Mellon when a free-speech controvery happened there, and parlayed that into a job with Time magazine. Slashdot readers may remember his interview with FEC commissioner Brad Smith, which set off a firestorm of bloggers versus the FEC. He's also a photojournalist, visit his web page for photos of geeks.
His coverage suggests that Spectre, and the congress, have once again violated their oaths of office. That annoys me. At majors.blogspot.com I have links to the 4 major cases that uphold the right to be anonymous and annoying. I litigate in this area, but not very effectively. I'd be willing to work with people who want to challenge this statute. - arbitrary aardvark.
Combined with the automated bathtub courtesy of Osaka Gas, that fills itself and announces when it's ready in an attractive female voice, and I can't imagine ever going back.
In my field, defending online political speech about elections from censorship, one of the top firms operates out of terre haute indiana. Their opponents are usually based in places like DC and NYC that have higher overhead.
I tried to stake out a role as a niche player with zero overhead by running my firm out of my computer in the ghetto in indianapolis. That I failed doesn't disprove the concept - I'm easily distracted by things like webcomics or for example slashdot.
Why are you calling a "Draft Advisory Opinion" by a commission a "ruling"?
Perhaps because the FEC voted yesterday to adopt the draft advisory opinion. I believe the vote was 5 to 0. Details at http://redstate.org./ It was a reasonable question.
Actually yelling Fire! is the classic counter-example. It is free speech to yell Fire! The expression comes from a 1919 case, schenk v united states http://laws.findlaw.com/us/249/47.html in which some guys were put in jail for passing out leaflets opposing the war and suggesting that the draft was involuntary servitude and thus unconstitutional under the 13th Amendment. The case is taught not because it was right, but because it was wrong, to show how the modern view of the first amendment has evolved. It was brave wobblies (www.iwww.org) who took up the fight for free speech in the 1910s on the west coast, and gradually judges came to agree.
There are a number of reasons one might want to yell Fire in a crowded theater. It might be a line in a play, or the theater might be on fire.
Otherwise, I largely agree with parent poster.
For people interested in free speech and the FEC and blogging, here are a few resources: http://www.electionlawblog.org/ http://redstate.org/ http://instapundit/ http://volokh.com/ http://electionline.org/ http://votelaw.org/ http://jamesmadisoncenter.org./ The supreme court currently has two cases about campaign finance. In one of them, wisconsin right to life v FEC, there are some signals the court will start to grant a series of narrow exceptions to McCain-Feingold as upheld in McConnell. Assuming Alito gets confirmed by then, he might be a 5th vote for free speech, so this will be a case worth watching, as a signal for where things might be headed. Meanwhile there's a lot of work to do in congress to pass the internet-exception-to-McCain bill, we need to keep watching the FEC as it drafts new rules on blogging regulation-or-not, and in state courts under state constitutions to protect internet speech from state election authorities which continue to try to impose censorship. Nobody reads my election law blog, http://ballots.blogspot.com./ Meanwhile, Fire!
I've personally known several people who have bought into pyramid schemes. You would not believe how hostile they get when you tell them it's a pyramid scheme and that they'll never get any money. Right. Let's demonstrate how that works with an example: Social security.
While it is a matter of national pride, China in specific also sees this as a way to increase the reputation of its high-tech exports.
This makes sense. For a large enough firm, with assets including a billion slave laborers, the expenses of space exploration can be written off out of the ad budget. If Moore's law applies (somewhat) to the costs of space travel, smaller ventures will be able to fund space travel as an investment in reputation capital (wuffie.) When a rocket ship costs less than a superbowl ad, we'll see more of them around. That'll lead to economies of scale and more applications that have payoff independent of the wuffie factor.
Slashdot Mirror
In Indianapolis this morning, it took till about 8:30 to finish getting the electronic machines working in about 175 precincts. But these are the handicapped accessible machines that almost no one uses - they cost $10,000 each. People vote paper ballots that get optically scanned.
Gilmore fans who object to showing ID without a warrant are offered provisional ballots, which then don't get counted. My lawsuit about that continues: joellpalmer.blogspot.com
In Delaware County, home of Ball state, polling hours have been extended to 8:30 pm because MicroVote machines weren't working at first.
Electionlawblog.org is one place to follow glitch reports during the day.
+2 informative insightful
Save some money: Amazon.com $32.99 Overstock.com $31.34 Half.com $28.95 http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000696/filmogenre Deep Core http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0202314/ Python http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_(movie) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wil_Wheaton
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID= /20061106/LOCAL19/611060453
IndyStar.com Metro & State Politics
4:02 PM November 6, 2006
GOP fires telephone campaign company
Automated call illegal in Indiana
Powered by Topix.net
By Jon Murray
jon.murray@indystar.com
The Indiana Republican Party has fired a company that made recorded calls around the state on behalf of its candidates' campaigns.
Marion County Democrats on Saturday had accused the Republicans of placing "robo-calls" after two voters provided voice mail messages asking them to vote for Brizzi in Tuesday's election. One complaint was filed Friday with Indiana Attorney General Steve Carter, a Republican.
State GOP spokesman Robert Vane said this afternoon that after investigating, party officials fired Virginia-based Conquest Communications Group. They refused to pay the company because it was using recorded messages.
"That is not what we contracted for," Vane said. The Republicans intended for all campaign calls to be conducted "100 percent live," he said, but instead the company used a live introduction followed by a recording.
Efforts were being made to contact Conquest.
Vane declined to say how much the party still owed the company, which also used recorded messages to promote other candidates.
Marion County Democratic Chairman Ed Treacy said there was no live introduction in the Brizzi calls. "That is a lie," he said, noting that only one voice could be heard during each voice mail message. Permission was never requested to play the recording, he said.
Under Indiana law, a recorded message can only be placed if it is first introduced by a person who seeks and gets permission to play the message.
"The attorney general better do something about it, or he has absolutely zero credibility," Treacy said.
Staci Schneider, Carter's spokeswoman, said she had no update about the Brizzi calls. The office investigates all complaints about recorded calls, she said.
Vane said the party's legal staff did not think the law had been violated. If a voice mail box asks the caller to leave a message, Vane said, that meets the consent requirement.
Democrat Melina Kennedy, a former deputy mayor of Indianapolis, is running for prosecutor against Brizzi.
+1 informative
I recommend nolo press, either, how to win in small claims court, or how to win in small claims court in california. www.nolo.com ? I am an attorney, have sued in small claims a few times, and verify what Bennet says in the article. Bennett, btw, is a cool guy, long history of hactivism with peacefire and other groups. His approach is to use both technical solutions and legal solutions. My state's (indiana) Attorney General has been going after automated political telemarketers, and winning. Usually I'm a free speech absolutist, but I agree pre-recorded junk calls are a pain and worth fighting.
Have any of you had to take a personality test to get a job? Should I do it, or just keep looking?"
One time at a car dealership, I was given a set of tests. Showed I was the smartest applicant they'd ever had, extremely ambitious, with no social skills at all.
So here I am posting to slashdot...
My current day job involves scoring tests.
OKcupid.com is a site where you can take lots of tests for fun or design your own, and use the test results as a basis for social networking.
An a law isn't a law, if it has already been found to be unconstitutional. There is a body of SC precedent that holds that (1) anonymity is a protected free speech right,
You are certainly right that the precedents say such speech is protected. Talley v California, McIntyre v Ohio, ACLF, Watchtower v Stratton. Text at majors.blogspot.com
However, for 5 years I've been unable to find local counsel and a plaintiff to challenge New Jersey's existing bans on certain forms of anonymous speech, of the "vote for smith" variety.
And let's say I find them, and file suit, and win.
Next year the same idiot introduces another bill to do the same thing, and we start over. In theory, suits like that should generate enough legal fees to be self-funding. In practice, over the past ten years I've gone broke doing these - partly my own ineptness - and not been able to obtain the result of getting these rules blocked, or getting them to stop writing new unconstitutional rules.
Perhaps some form of more direct action would appropriate - anybody got this guy's home phone number and home address? We can all call to congratulate him on his fine bill, or mail him a coconut.
Well, look, i think the "right to anonymous travel" is one of the weaker arguments Gilmore makes, although I did send one of his lawyers some info on ACLU v Heller, a recent 9th circuit case upholding anonymity.
About Greyhound - one time I took Greyhound, round trip through Chicago where I was petitioning the government for redress of grievances - I was arguing Majors v Abell, a case about anonymity, before Judge Posner.
They wanted to search my bags before letting me take the bus home; I didn't want to be searched. The goon wouldn't tell me who he was, which suggested to me he knew he was acting illegally. Greyhound didn't respond adequately to my letter objecting. John sent me some email encouraging me to keep at it, but I let that one slide; I have other higher priorities. I admire John for fighting these battles that those of us with lesser resources would have a hard time with.
We all need to be concerned about losing our right to travel and associate and speak, a drop at a time, and look for those opportunities where it makes sense to take a stand. Gilmore v Gonzales, Hiibel, that lady on the bus in Denver,Debbie Daniels, were each battles worth fighting. We lose a few. We lose a lot. But we win one here or there, enough positive feedback to keep fighting.
No news yet at papersplease.org, but my guess is the next step will be to move for en banc review by the 9th circuit, which might at least get a dissent. Then the Supreme Court probably won't take the case.
One thing we could do about this case - if a few of us wrote our congresscritters asking for copies of the secret law, we might get answers, or not. Last time I was Greyhounding through Chicago, they didn't touch my bags.
Tea, Earl Grey, hot. Ow!
dupe?
www.online-literature.com/verne/leaguesunder
Aside from the fact that this has nothing to do with your rights online:
It helps to know who Gilmore is. A few examples: He created the alt. hierarchy, back before Canter & Seigel brought down usenet. He cofounded EFF.
1) Explain how my inability to travel anonymously prevents my petitioning the goverment for the redressing of grievances
2) Point to where in the constitution they said you were guaranteed anonymity
1)'s a little tricky. It's not so much "prevents" as chills and infringes on.
The right to travel to the seat of government to petition for redress is one of the privileges and immunities protected by the 14th amendment p&i clause.
2) We have the first amendment because Peter Zenger was busted for running a printing press to print anonymous criticism of the king's goons.
Talley v California, 1960, explains that the right to free speech includes anonymity and privacy. Thomas, concurring in McIntyre v Ohio Elections Commission, explains the history in more detail.
The other two cases that discuss the constitutional right to anonymity are American Constitutional Law Foundation and Watchtower v Stratton. You can read those cases at majors.blogspot.com or findlaw.com.
SS/Medicaid is an insurance policy for those too incompetent, or ignorant, to do better for themselves.
..... extortion racket.
Wrong. It is an
With a little selective editing, I've come to agree with you.
What are taxes about? Oh to build stuff like libraries... but google is a free library for 6 billion people. Post offices? Ditto. Except the stamps are free and the mail gets there quicker.
Infrastructure for communications systems? Ditto.
Space program? They're working on it.
Public education? They're working on it.
Scientific research? Doing it.
Invading weaker countries? Well, no...
I don't care how little google or its founders pay in taxes.
user #1: Nemesis sucks. They cut [clevernickname's]best scenes.
user #2. Get the DVD!
It's a dupe. Zonk already posted about OSS at 5:24.
+2 Stupid.
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washingtonpost.blog etc. Right where it's been. Nothing to see here folks.
because one thing the world needs now is more mutant giant squid.
Is this an article or an opinion piece (ie. Slashdot via FoxNews)?
Yes. It's by Declan McCullagh. Declan is an advocacy journalist. A traditional journalist would have been less likely to know about annoy.com and Thomas's concurrence in McIntyre v Ohio Elections Commission.
Declan runs the politech list, and writes for Cnet.
If I recall correctly, he was a student government leader at Carnegie-Mellon when a free-speech controvery happened there, and parlayed that into a job with Time magazine.
Slashdot readers may remember his interview with FEC commissioner Brad Smith, which set off a firestorm of bloggers versus the FEC.
He's also a photojournalist, visit his web page for photos of geeks.
His coverage suggests that Spectre, and the congress, have once again violated their oaths of office. That annoys me.
At majors.blogspot.com I have links to the 4 major cases that uphold the right to be anonymous and annoying. I litigate in this area, but not very effectively. I'd be willing to work with people who want to challenge this statute. - arbitrary aardvark.
Combined with the automated bathtub courtesy of Osaka Gas, that fills itself and announces when it's ready in an attractive female voice, and I can't imagine ever going back.
h tm
Interesting, informative, insightful.
Does it run linux?
http://www.osakagas.co.jp/rd/next21/htme/energye.
What do these puppies cost?
(same question about TFA - what do these microwave heater thingies cost?)
http://www.ease.com/~randyj/rjjapan9.htm
(basic japanese bath info, low tech tho)
In my field, defending online political speech about elections from censorship, one of the top firms operates out of terre haute indiana.
Their opponents are usually based in places like DC and NYC that have higher overhead.
I tried to stake out a role as a niche player with zero overhead by running my firm out of my computer in the ghetto in indianapolis.
That I failed doesn't disprove the concept - I'm easily distracted by things like webcomics or for example slashdot.
+1 ironicly recursive
Holy Cowasaurus, Batman.
Why are you calling a "Draft Advisory Opinion" by a commission a "ruling"?
Perhaps because the FEC voted yesterday to adopt the draft advisory opinion. I believe the vote was 5 to 0. Details at http://redstate.org./
It was a reasonable question.
Actually yelling Fire! is the classic counter-example.
It is free speech to yell Fire!
The expression comes from a 1919 case, schenk v united states http://laws.findlaw.com/us/249/47.html
in which some guys were put in jail for passing out leaflets opposing the war and suggesting that the draft was involuntary servitude and thus unconstitutional under the 13th Amendment.
The case is taught not because it was right, but because it was wrong, to show how the modern view of the first amendment has evolved. It was brave wobblies (www.iwww.org) who took up the fight for free speech in the 1910s on the west coast, and gradually judges came to agree.
There are a number of reasons one might want to yell Fire in a crowded theater. It might be a line in a play, or the theater might be on fire.
Otherwise, I largely agree with parent poster.
For people interested in free speech and the FEC and blogging, here are a few resources:
http://www.electionlawblog.org/
http://redstate.org/
http://instapundit/
http://volokh.com/
http://electionline.org/
http://votelaw.org/
http://jamesmadisoncenter.org./
The supreme court currently has two cases about campaign finance. In one of them, wisconsin right to life v FEC, there are some signals the court will start to grant a series of narrow exceptions to McCain-Feingold as upheld in McConnell.
Assuming Alito gets confirmed by then, he might be a 5th vote for free speech, so this will be a case worth watching, as a signal for where things might be headed.
Meanwhile there's a lot of work to do in congress to pass the internet-exception-to-McCain bill,
we need to keep watching the FEC as it drafts new rules on blogging regulation-or-not, and in state courts under state constitutions to protect internet speech from state election authorities which continue to try to impose censorship.
Nobody reads my election law blog, http://ballots.blogspot.com./
Meanwhile, Fire!
the stainless steel rat books a fun read.8 04353-9635047?v=glance&n=283155&_encoding=UTF8&v=g lance
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0765302772/103-0
rats and humans coevolve, in a process that hasn't stopped yet. build a better mousetrap, and the world will breed better mice. rats.
I've personally known several people who have bought into pyramid schemes. You would not believe how hostile they get when you tell them it's a pyramid scheme and that they'll never get any money.
Right. Let's demonstrate how that works with an example:
Social security.
While it is a matter of national pride, China in specific also sees this as a way to increase the reputation of its high-tech exports.
This makes sense. For a large enough firm, with assets including a billion slave laborers, the expenses of space exploration can be written off out of the ad budget.
If Moore's law applies (somewhat) to the costs of space travel, smaller ventures will be able to fund space travel as an investment in reputation capital (wuffie.)
When a rocket ship costs less than a superbowl ad, we'll see more of them around.
That'll lead to economies of scale and more applications that have payoff independent of the wuffie factor.