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Nemesis, the Sun's Binary Star Companion?

0xC2 writes "The Binary Companion or 'Nemesis' theory asserts that a yet-to-be discovered companion to our Sun may actually exist. Recent observations of two nearby stars (assumed companions) show debris disks 'strikingly like the Kuiper Belt int the outer part of our Solar System'. The Binary Research Institute site is devoted to the theory, and presents a concise introduction, list of evidence, and sample calculations in support of the theory. A fascinating read, although the physics and related calculations are not trivial." Has the 'unique theory on the internet' vibe to it, but interesting nonetheless.

271 comments

  1. Nemesis of Sun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Isn't that Microsoft? Oops... Wrong article...

    1. Re:Nemesis of Sun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Enough of Microsoft (YELLING).Please People- W.A.K.E U.P !

    2. Re:Nemesis of Sun? by deKernel · · Score: 1

      As soon as I wipe my screen off from the coffee that came through my nose from laughing so hard, I will tell that was mean!!!!

  2. Listen by PacketScan · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Seti have anything to say about this?

    1. Re:Listen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No.

    2. Re:Listen by bmgoau · · Score: 3, Interesting

      SETI is the Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence, they do not involve themselves often in cosmological debates, instead they focus on mapping radio signals from numorus star systems. The radio signals they recieve however have led cosmologists to discover a number of special objects in space.

      NASA might have been a better choice for inclusion in your parent post, or better yet a astonomological group.

    3. Re:Listen by Dr.+Sorenson · · Score: 1

      The Sun, like every other object in the solar system, orbits the center of gravity in the solar system. A star must been at least 20 Jupiter masses to induce hydrogen fusion and this would. Considering the center of mass in the solar system just above the surface of the sun, there cannot be a companion star.

    4. Re:Listen by sponge_absorbent · · Score: 1

      The Sun IS the center of gravity in the solar system. The Sun orbits the center of our galaxy. Your assumption is faulty.

    5. Re:Listen by YU+Nicks+NE+Way · · Score: 1

      Umm...no. The center of gravity of the Solar system is slightly outside the stellar body in the system, a yellow dwarf with eight known planets in stable near-circular orbits, as well as several large icy objects of near-planetary size in eccentric orbits at significantly greater distance.

    6. Re:Listen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It may be off center, but I guarantee you it's still well within the sun.

    7. Re:Listen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your logic is faulty. Consider the following case:

      The Moon orbits the Earth. The center of mass of the Earth-Moon system is near the Earth (I can't remember the exact location, but I think it is within the Earth). But the Earth orbits the Sun. And the center of mass of the Earth-Sun system is within the Sun. Can the center of mass of the Earth-Moon system still be within the Earth?

      Yes, obviously, because our system is restricted to two objects, the Earth and the Moon. When we consider the Earth and the Sun, the center of mass is within the Sun. This does not affect how the Moon orbits the Earth (well maybe just a little bit).

      Now consider Nemesis. It is not going to affect how the solar system operates to a great extent (probably less that the effect of Pluto due to the inverse square nature of gravity--though I would need to get the exact distance and mass estimates to give a better answer). If it has changed the center of mass of the solar system, then it will take a long time to have any noticable change in our position, if it can even be observed (how is moving your system a couple of AUs going to affect your observations of stars light years away?).

    8. Re:Listen by FuzzyDaddy · · Score: 1

      Also, the only gravitational effect on our system would be from a field gradient, which falls off as one over the radius cubed.

      --
      It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.
    9. Re:Listen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Parent is on Target.

      0 and off topic..

      Have the moderator points been given to monkeys?

      Last i checked Seti listened for Radio waves and to assume or say that these new finding can't product radio waves is plain Ignorant.

  3. Solar Evil? by Ardeocalidus · · Score: 2, Funny

    I sense an evil twin joke coming on.....

    1. Re:Solar Evil? by spawnofbill · · Score: 0, Funny

      So, does it have a goatee or what?

      Sorry, had to.

    2. Re:Solar Evil? by Bonker · · Score: 1, Funny

      Why, when there are so many Sailor Moon jokes that are begging to be made?

      --
      The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
    3. Re:Solar Evil? by zardo · · Score: 1

      It's the bizarro sun, harboring a bizarro earth

    4. Re:Solar Evil? by Mr.+Bad+Example · · Score: 4, Funny

      > I sense an evil twin joke coming on.....

      I bet Nemesis looks exactly like the Sun, but with a stylish 200,000-mile-wide Evil Spock goatee.

    5. Re:Solar Evil? by crutchman · · Score: 2, Funny

      What if we have the left, or "sinister" twin, and they accidentally switched them at birth? I sure our real Sun would be pretty pissed about being locked in the attic all these years eating nothing but fish heads.

      Let's see....a pun AND a Simpson's reference...that should be worth at least a 3! :-P

    6. Re:Solar Evil? by nizo · · Score: 1

      Makes me wonder if Nemesis has any planets revolving around it?

    7. Re:Solar Evil? by mikeron · · Score: 1

      I bet Nemesis looks exactly like the Sun, but with a stylish 200,000-mile-wide Evil Spock goatee.

      Or an Evil Crichton beard?

  4. Internet bullshit pseudoscience by MustardMan · · Score: 5, Funny

    On a scale of "faked moon landing" to "electric universe", I rate this 'theory' a solid "roswell alien autopsy"

    1. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by PacketScan · · Score: 0, Redundant

      oMg that's beautiful.

    2. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by geofferensis · · Score: 2, Funny

      Is your Internet BS pseudo-science scale protected by some form of intellectual property law? I would very much like to use it to make some jokes with, but I don't want to run into any problems by infringing on your intellectual property.

      Thank you,

    3. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'd put it closer to "Da Vinci Code" on the scale.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    4. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by flyingsquid · · Score: 4, Informative
      You laugh, but this guy has written his own book and everything. According to the summary of his book:

      Ancient folklore from around the world rings with two resonating themes: History moves in cycles with alternating Golden and Dark Ages, and the slow movement of the stars across the sky, the Precession of the Equinox, is the cause and timekeeper of these cycles. For years we have heard that these are only myths, there was no Golden Age and precession is just a wobbling of the Earth's axis. Now "Lost Star of Myth and Time" shows evidence the Ancients were not just weaving fanciful tales - science is on the verge of an amazing discovery - our Sun has a companion star carrying us through a great cycle of stellar influences. If true, it means the Ancients were right and our views of space and time and the history of civilization will never be the same. More than that, it would mean we are now at the dawn of a new age in human development and world conditions.

      And the book gets a rave review from none other than the influential LA Yoga Magazine. You can't argue with a major astrophysical journal like that (http://www.loststarbook.com/). Clearly, this man and his theories demand to be taken seriously. Thank you, Zonk, for continuing to bring us only the finest in science journalism.

    5. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by Melfina · · Score: 5, Funny
      "You laugh, but this guy has written his own book and everything. According to the summary of his book:"

      Dr. Seuss has written books also~ :p

      --
      :3 rawr.
    6. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      A prime example of very good books.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    7. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You laugh, but this guy has written his own book and everything.

      Was his work granted a copyright by the U.S. Copyright Office too?

    8. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by Cl1mh4224rd · · Score: 1

      I have to pass this one off on the folks over at the Bad Astronomy and Universe Today forum: Nemesis: BS or what?

      This theory has been in the BS category for quite a while. Leave it to Slashdot, though...

      --
      People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
    9. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by eonlabs · · Score: 1

      So now all books disclose nothing but the truth?

      Montauk Project anyone: "The secret to time travel is an amplified orgasm!"

      It's in a book that doesn't explicitly say its fiction.

      I only hold books better than websites because people who publish books can be sued for libel if they are seriously breaking bonds.

      --
      I wouldn't consider the mad hatter mad. Just reality impaired. He sure can make a mean cup of tea.
    10. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "You laugh, but this guy has written his own book and everything. According to the summary of his book:"
      Dr. Seuss has written books also~ :p
      Another person unto whom sarcasm and satire is lost. For shame.
    11. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you were the only person who didn't understand that a post which says that "the book gets a rave review from none other than the influential LA Yoga Magazine. You can't argue with a major astrophysical journal like that" and "Thank you, Zonk, for continuing to bring us only the finest in science journalism" is sarcastic, I guess I accept it. But that not only you, but at least three moderators too, have an ability to read irony at a level less than a grade schooler is simply mind boggling. Who on earth are the people who frequent this site? Are you even adults?

    12. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by Markus+Landgren · · Score: 1

      That's nice and all, but it's also exactly the point of the post you were replying to.

    13. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

      $RANT_ABOUT_IP_MISNOMER

    14. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by Melfina · · Score: 1
      Actually, it's more of me only reading the first line and thinking of a wiseass comment to post under it, then neglecting to read the rest. I don't know which is worse, but on a full read of the above post I am clearly mistaken. As are the mods that modded me up it seems. XD

      Moral of the story; Read all of the post before getting stupid!

      --
      :3 rawr.
    15. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by arose · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Moral of the story; Read all of the post before getting stupid!
      Don't, you'll have no excuse then!
      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    16. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by maxume · · Score: 1

      Lay off the Doctor! Just because he knew how to write for an audience doesn't mean he is comparable to some unhinged psuedoscience wackjob:

      http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/speccoll/dspolitic/

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    17. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by pla · · Score: 1

      I'd put it closer to "Da Vinci Code" on the scale.

      Unfair! To quote Jon Stewart ripping into Tucker Carlson, "You're on CNN. The show that leads into me is puppets making crank phone calls."

      The DaVinci Code took a giant vat of fiction and added a little spice to it. The "Nemesis theory" takes a massive body of scientific evidence against the sun having a twin, and ignores it. Like gravity (EVERYTHING in the solar system orbits the center of gravity - Sol, the planets, everything). Brightness (we "found" Proxima Centauri, a 0.123 solar mass red dwarf 4.22LY away). Parallax (something that close would appear to move against the background of "fixed" stars, when observed from opposite sides of the Earth's orbit).


      Now, in fairness, our solar system has a good bit of "missing" mass, in the sense that we don't know about every little speck of dust in our region of space. But trying to fix the numbers with one massive blob at the edge of the heliopause just doesn't count as sound science... When your dinner needs just a little more salt, you don't try to pour your cup-o'-soup over a salt-lick very quickly to achieve the desired adjustment in flavor.

      Also in fairness... Maize and aloe. How do you get engravings of plants not known about in Europe until 1496, in a building completed ten years earlier? Now, it takes quite a leap to go from that to speculation about Marie de la Mer, but it certainly leaves room for new chapters in the cannonical body of fiction...

    18. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by tezbobobo · · Score: 1

      Interesting actually. As an history major I learnt in one of my early units (on political philosophy actually) different theories of history. They are often decribed in terms of shapes. One of the more popular is 'History as a circle' or cyclical nature of history. It is popular maybe due to the fact that history attempts to explain the human condition and this theory provides a simple way of doing that. Something you may have heard in contemporary discourse is predictions of America's demise - they would liken it to the empirical overreach of Rome or Britain.

      It's just crap though (in this humble historian's opinion. I lacks an understanding of the true complexity of these problems... and leads to rediculus pseudo-science. Science should be grounded in facts, not philosophy (except at a very deep level).

    19. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Mostly I was just going for the "both have a work of fiction written about a subject with a large kook following despite contrary evidence"

      of course, Asimov's superprequel "Nemesis" didn't require Asimov to join the kooks and say things like, "My next book will reveal even more incredible secrets of the vatican than this one" to promote it.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    20. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      someone PLEASE mod the parent funny rather than informative.. i can't believe that you can't see the humour, guys..

    21. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what is the "massive body of scientific evidence against the sun having a (companion)"? Most of the evidence, like the Neptune anomalies, Pioneer anomalies, angular momentum studies, sheer edge and even the lack of local mass that you yourself point out ALL indicate there is something out there that we don't understand. The Binary Research Institute work so far looks solid. Suggest we try to keep an open mind and at least hear all the arguments before proclaiming the earth must be flat!

      Let Galileo's spirit live!

    22. Re:Internet bullshit pseudoscience by pla · · Score: 1

      Most of the evidence <snip> that you yourself point out

      That who pointed out? I didn't mention any of those. The closest I touched on, gravity, pretty solidly demonstrates the lack of a binary companion for Sol. The other two point out the glaring absence of another massive radiating body in our immediate region of space.

      Key word there, radiating. This particular batch of crackpots seems to forget that the RF spectrum extends beyond the visible, and we have the tech to "see" outside the visible just fine and dandy. For example, even though it doesn't come remotely close to "star" sized, we would have discovered relatively-little ol' Jupiter even as far out as this mythical "nemesis" as soon as we discovered radio astronomy, because it broadcasts louder than a pirate Mexican-border radio station on Meth. And based on its movement relative to the fixed background of stars, we would know whether it orbited Sol or just passed by.


      ALL indicate there is something out there that we don't understand.

      Science has a pretty good grasp on the physics-of-the-normal. Above the quantum, and below black holes, we can calculate what "should" happen with amazing precision. And those calculations, applied to our solar system, do not come anywhere near the level of discrepancy needed to just toss another entire star in the mix.


      try to keep an open mind and at least hear all the arguments before proclaiming the earth must be flat!

      I will keep an open mind in those areas that science hasn't completely explained yet. The Pioneer anomaly (which you brought up), for example - We might well learn something new and cool from that one... But any explanation (short of a cheesy overlooked onboard cause) I'd more readily attribute to something exotic like universal anisotropy or "missing" dimensions, than to something as mundane-yet-nearly-impossible having somehow overlooked the second most massive object in our solar system.


      I would encourage you to learn an important feature of science - Reality doesn't offer itself up for debate. We can argue about politics, about religion, about flavors of ice-cream, and what-have-you in the "social" realm, without either of us having it entirely right or wrong. We can even debate semantics, such as whether or not Pluto counts as a "planet". But to the extent that an objective "out there" may exist, we can't debate whether or not we have two objects greather than 0.012 solar masses in our local neighborhood of space.

  5. 010000100110100101101110011000010111001001111001 by RequiemX · · Score: 5, Funny

    01010011011010000110111101101111011101000010000100 100000010101110110010100100000 01101100011010010111011001100101001000000110100101 101110001000000110000100100000 01100010011010010110111001100001011100100111100100 100000011100110111100101110011 01110100011001010110110100111111

  6. By now? by Ardeocalidus · · Score: 1
    If this were an actuality, not only would we have been able to detect the gravitational pull on our Sun, we would've also caught the planetary drift due to the moving sun.

    Unless our sun is slowly orbiting some dark, dank mass of anti-matter, I believe we can put this theory to rest.

    1. Re:By now? by Descalzo · · Score: 1

      I thought that was explained by the huge orbit (like 1-3 lightyears). I guess with a big enough orbit, it might be really hard to detect the pull on our Sun.

      --
      I cried real tears when Li Mu Bai died.
    2. Re:By now? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't think you truly appreciate how BIG our solar system is. If there's a twin to our star, it would seem so far away that it would seem like it had nothing to do with us. e.g. From Pluto, our Sun looks like nothing more than a particularly bright star. Now given how far away this star would be, its gravitational effects might be difficult to detect. In fact, IIRC, there are still quite a few odd effects that the discovery of Pluto didn't quite account for. (Not big enough.) So maybe we've finally found our Planet X. Except that it isn't a planet at all. :-)

    3. Re:By now? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      And no, I'm not saying that I agree with guy. Just pointing out that it's not as simple as it seems.

    4. Re:By now? by imemyself · · Score: 1

      While the Nemesis theory sounds really cool (and IANA astrophysicist), I think that I've heard that some of the calculations that were used as justification for looking for Planet X back in the early 1900's were off or something. I can't remember where it was that I heard that, it was probably either on one of the BBC The Planets series or Cosmos.

      --
      Every time you post an article on Slashdot, I kill a server. Think of the servers!
    5. Re:By now? by Guppy06 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "I don't think you truly appreciate how BIG our solar system is. If there's a twin to our star, it would seem so far away that it would seem like it had nothing to do with us."

      And I don't think you realize how big and bright stars are and how long we've been tracking the movement of stars across the heavens. If you have a star identical to the Sun 100 AU away (Pluto is 50 at its greatest), it will still be 40 times brighter than the full moon. I daresay that night as we know it wouldn't exist for months out of the year. And it would move noticably among the background stars (if you could see any) over the course of months or, at most, years (a drop in the bucket compared to the astronomical data we've collected since the development of written language). And there'd be no doubt even to Tycho Brahae that this one particular star/planet showed parallax and probably even measurable retrogade motion.

      If the species can find something as small (0.00004 solar masses), dim (no fusion) and distant (20 AU, only 0.0003 light-year) as Uranus during the American Revolution, we'd certainly have found any kind of star closer than Alpha Centauri (let alone within the heliopause) by now, even if it were a black hole.

      "Now given how far away this star would be, its gravitational effects might be difficult to detect."

      Our sun is over 1000 Jovian masses, 1,300,000 earth masses, and 13.1E21 Pluto masses. The majority of all matter in the solar system is in the sun. It's certainly not something you can hide.

      "In fact, IIRC, there are still quite a few odd effects that the discovery of Pluto didn't quite account for. (Not big enough.)"

      You see: waves in a pond
      You find: a 1 g tadpole
      You'd expect: an 8 kg fish
      Nemesis: 94 million blue whales put together

    6. Re:By now? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Informative
      If you have a star identical to the Sun 100 AU away (Pluto is 50 at its greatest), it will still be 40 times brighter than the full moon.

      *cough*
      Muller figures Nemesis' orbit ranges from 1 to 3 light-years away from the Sun.


      A quick read of the article was also able to confirm that they are proposing a brown dwarf or a small singularity, not a yellow star like Sol.

      Again, I'm not saying the guy is right. Just that space is a BIG place that can easily hide such things. If he can find a binary twin, then more power to him. If not, well he'll be in good company with many other scientists.
    7. Re:By now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Nemesis theory says that it exists about 50,000-100,000 AU away, has an orbital period of 26 million years, and is a brown dwarf. Let's assume a mass of 0.25 solar masses. Assuming it has a circular orbit, this would put the center of gravity of the solar system ~15,000 AU away and at the maximum rate of change relative to any axis in the plane, the solar system would be moving 0.0036 AU/yr (17 m/s) compared to its motion without Nemesis. To put this in context, we need to remember that our solar system's tangental velocity in the Milky Way is ~217000 m/s.

      You would need some very sensitive equipment to be able to verify that Nemesis does or does not exist. It's like putting a telescope in your car while driving down the road and expecting to be able to find a parallax between observations (and filtering out the Earth's and the Sun's relative motions). And that's only if you happen to find a nice right angle observation. Otherwise you'd never know.

    8. Re:By now? by jwhitener · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While I agree that this theory sounds... a little off, there remains many unexplained myths that have tantalizing bits of truth to them.

      For instance, see the Dogon's well documented belief in a binary system, that was later revealed to be true. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius#The_Dogons
      The Dogon issue is of course, debatable. Regardless, it is interesting to speculate about.

      We now know that solar system travels up and down through the galactic plane in a regular cycle, and some have speculated that this particular cycle brings with it increased chances of asteroid impact, as well as yet unforseen forces (for instance, gravitational).

      Who knows what odd galactic cycles we'll discover in the future? I, for one, don't find the intense ancient interest in the sky and its movements, to be something that we can mearly attribute to some sort of primitive fascination with bright and shiny things alone.

      Rather, I think there is probably some truth to the many, many myths concerning disasters, floods, and dramatic climate changes, and these were in some way linked to observable heavingly events. That probably greatly contributed to almost every known culture having an intense interest in the sky, with the greatest well known ancient cultures having such well known, and seeminly overly complex, obsessions with the movements of the stars and planets.

    9. Re:By now? by Guppy06 · · Score: 4, Informative
      "Let's assume a mass of 0.25 solar masses."

      Proxima Centauri, a red dwarf, is 0.12 solar masses, about 270,000 AU away, and was discovered in 1915.

      It seems brown dwarfs cap at around 90 jovian masses (0.08 solar masses).

      "The Nemesis theory says that it exists about 50,000-100,000 AU away, has an orbital period of 26 million years, and is a brown dwarf."

      ballpark absolute magnitude of a brown dwarf: 17
      absolute magnitude of the sun: 4.8
      difference: 12.2

      Apparent magnitude of the sun at 1 AU: -26.73
      apparent magnitude of sample dwarf at 1 AU: -26.73 + 12.2= -14.53

      Add 5 apparent magnitude for multiple of ten of distance

      100,000 AU = 10^5 AU, 5 * 5 = 25, 25 + (-14.53) = 10.47

      Apparent magnitude of sample dwarf at 100,000 AU = 10.47 (round to 11)
      Coincidentally, the apparent magnitude of Proxima Centauri is also 11
      Apparent magnitude of Neptune, discovered 1846 = 8 (about 16 times brighter)
      Apparent magnitude of Pluto, photographed 1915 = 14 (about 16 times dimmer)
      Apparent magnitude visible by ground-based telescopes = 27 (2.5E6 times dimmer)
      Apparent magnitude visible by Hubble = 30 (4.0E7 times dimmer)

      From the looks of things, Nemesis would have been showing up in astronomical photographs starting from the last decade or so of the Nineteenth Century. Curiously, the first confirmed sighting of a brown dwarf was in 1995 (first theorized in the 1960s). Now, unless the spectral pattern put out by this brown dwarf Nemesis somehow looks like much larger, hotter and brighter stars, it would have been Big News in Astronomy that such an odd star exists, regardless of its distance from us.

      "It's like putting a telescope in your car while driving down the road and expecting to be able to find a parallax between observations"

      Time between the two photographs over which the motion of Pluto first became apparent: 6 days
      Orbital period of Pluto: 90,600 days
      Sweep of arc made by Pluto for its discovery ~ 1 minute, 16 seconds of arc

      Time between the two photographs over which the motion of Quaoar first became apparent: 180 minutes
      Orbital period of Quaoar: 105,000 days
      Sweep of arc made by Quaoar for its discovery ~ 1.5 seconds of arc

      You say Nemesis may have an orbital period of 26 million years. Kepler says an object 100,000 AU away should have an orbital period of about 32 million years. We'll take the slower number:

      Sweep of arc made by Nemesis in the past 50 years ~ 2 seconds of arc

      And an interesting quote about the discovery of real nearby brown dwarfs in Epsilon Indi, 12 light-years away (source):
      "Because this system is so close to us, it appears to move quite rapidly in the sky," says Dr. Volk. "We were able to confirm our detection--and rule out a more distant background object--within a few weeks since we could detect the motion of the system relative to the background stars relatively quickly."


      If 12 light-years "appears to move quite rapidly in the sky," why not 1.2 light-years?
    10. Re:By now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure if I can agree with your magnitude numbers for a brown dwarf. This is the most important aspect of identifying if Nemesis exists. We are assuming that it follows the standard brown dwarf model. Of course, we assume that it will be like every other brown dwarf *observed*. Each of these brown dwarfs are warm objects that emit a reasonable amount of infrared radiation. If it is a cold black dwarf similar to a larger Uranus--~60 K (and less than 13 Jupiter masses so that it can't have fusion), then it's apparent magnitude would be in the range of 25-30 at 50,000 AU. This would be very difficult to detect.

    11. Re:By now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One to three lightyears? Preposterous, we have closer flybies with other stars in the galaxy then that. Something that far out would have been sheared away from the sun billions of years ago.

      As for a brown dwarf, maybe though I doubt it, all anomalies about Pluto and Neptune were explained long ago. Or in other words, we have no unaccounted gravitational effects, as such this object is just a solution looking for a problem.

    12. Re:By now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact, IIRC, there are still quite a few odd effects that the discovery of Pluto didn't quite account for.

      That was true until the 70s. Until after a space probe (Voyager 2?) passed by Neptune, its mass wasn't exactly known. After this measurement, calculations suddently fit. The remaining inaccuracies basically vanished when it was discovered that Pluto actually has kind of a moon, Charon, which is almost as big as Pluto itself. Anything "odd" remaining is probably the result of large Kuiper belt objects, which have unpredictable orbits anyway.

    13. Re:By now? by TommydCat · · Score: 1
      1 AU is not the same as 1 light year

      Not even "close", so I imagine it may be a bit dimmer than you imagine.

      --
      This comment does not necessarily represent the views and opinions of the author.
    14. Re:By now? by Guppy06 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "I'm not sure if I can agree with your magnitude numbers for a brown dwarf."

      I got the +17 number from here. For the record, 17 is pretty damned dim: Proxima Centauri has an absolute magnitude of 15.49. But even if you unrealisticly want to bump up Nemesis' absolute magnitude to 30, at 100,000 AU (twice your largest claim) it'd still have an apparent magnitude from earth of 24, still 16 times brighter than what modern ground-based telescopes can see. All you'd be doing is limiting the data that should be available on Nemesis to 80 years instead of 120.

      "Each of these brown dwarfs are warm objects that emit a reasonable amount of infrared radiation. If it is a cold black dwarf similar to a larger Uranus--~60 K (and less than 13 Jupiter masses so that it can't have fusion)"

      Aside from the fact that we'd still be able to see it, with 13 Jovian masses at 25,000 AU (half your smallest claim), the gravitational attraction on the sun would be 0.117 pm/s^2 (that's picometers). The center of the galaxy exerts an acceleration on the sun of 19,330 pm/s^s. Nemesis' gravitational influence would be indiscernible and meaningless compared to the gravitational effect of the rest of the galaxy. Its influence on us would literally be background noise, unless one tries to claim it influences us in some way other than gravity (*cough* astrology *cough*)

    15. Re:By now? by HuguesT · · Score: 2, Informative

      The article theorizes that the putative brown dwarf culprit may have been missed if it were located in a region of the sky with lots of stars as background, e.g. the milky way. In fact it could be anywhere and could have been missed easily.

      The scientist who found Pluto was looking for it, was very talented and got lucky.

      I don't think the whole sky is being surveyed for moving objects. Indeed a recent piggyback project that used serendipitous tracks on Hubble plates discovered hundreds of asteroids. Yet asteroids are much more numerous, typically brighter and move much more quickly across the sky than any brown dwarf that would fit the data. To find them the Hubble scope made use of very long exposures and of the huge parallax the telescope had while orbiting the Earth.

      Hence the hypothesis of an as-yet, undiscovered close-by brown dwarf is not implausible.

      BTW I tried to help for the asteroid Hubble project in a small way by automating the finding of the hallmark tracks, but it turned out using graduate students was faster and more efficient.

    16. Re:By now? by kimvette · · Score: 1

      If it were that bright it would be visible in broad daylight. Last time I checked, both Venus and the moon are visible during daylight hours.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    17. Re:By now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if there Earth were really spinning on its axis we would feel it! Right! So how would you measure the gravitational pull on our Sun? A magic box?

      Almost all stars are part of binary or multiple star systems but it takes a good deal of study and observation to confirm it. So it is statistically most probable that our solar system is part of a more complex system. The work at the Binary Research Institute is solid. They measure the change in the solar system's angular direction and it is moving (accelerating) in conformance with Kepler's laws.

    18. Re:By now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      If 12 light-years "appears to move quite rapidly in the sky," why not 1.2 light-years?
      Epsilon Indi is not only nearby, it also moves quite fast (over 80 km/s if I got the calculations right) relative to our Sun. These two stars are not gravitationally bound (i.e. don't orbit each other). Check the proper motion of Epsilon Indi -- it's more than 4 arcseconds per year. Nemesis, as you calculated yourself, would make less in 50 years.

      (oh well, I guess nobody will read this anyway...)

  7. cool! by patcito · · Score: 3, Funny

    As the slashdot crowd is pretty much clueless about astronomy I expect lots of Funny rated comments to hide our ignorance on the subject, right guys?

    1. Re:cool! by MustardMan · · Score: 1

      Actually, the understanding of astronomy to explain why this "theory" is utter bullshit isn't really what you need. What you DO need is an understanding of classical mechanics. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one here who knows enough classical mechanics to see the faults in their arguments in about 5 seconds.

      As an aside, an understanding of nonlinear dynamics is also helpful to see various other flaws in their reasoning.

    2. Re:cool! by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Funny

      As the slashdot crowd is pretty much clueless about astronomy I expect lots of Funny rated comments to hide our ignorance on the subject, right guys?

      You'd like to think so, wouldn't you? But as everyone knows, this is a matter for astrologers, which you clearly are not. Otherwise you'd know that making jokes about jokers joking to obscure their ignorance is itself merely a joke of an argument, so we cannot, even jokingly, take the argument in front of you.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    3. Re:cool! by patcito · · Score: 0

      You'd like to think so, wouldn't you? But as everyone knows, this is a matter for astrologers, which you clearly are not. Otherwise you'd know that making jokes about jokers joking to obscure their ignorance is itself merely a joke of an argument, so we cannot, even jokingly, take the argument in front of you.

      I'm confused, was that a joke?

    4. Re:cool! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

    5. Re:cool! by MustardMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually I am a physicst, and while I'm not an astronomer, I do work with "dynamics" on a fulltime basis.

      Not to mention, all but one real astronomer also think this theory is ridiculous. The site linked is by an AMATEUR astronomer, not someone with a formal training in the hard sciences. I'm not contradicting a specialist, I'm contradicting a whackjob internet troll. No, not you - the guy with the binary solar system website.

    6. Re:cool! by Firehed · · Score: 1

      I hope you don't have a problem with that. However, I don't think all the funny-rated posts can block out the light from a twin star, so it certainly can't be there. It must be that pluto once was a star, but since space is a vacuum, it couldn't keep burning, and the gas froze into the chunk of rock we're still questioning as being a planet. To hell with fusion! Actually... that'd probably have kept it ablaze.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    7. Re:cool! by steve_bryan · · Score: 1

      Actually, the understanding of astronomy to explain why this "theory" is utter bullshit isn't really what you need. What you DO need is an understanding of classical mechanics. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one here who knows enough classical mechanics to see the faults in their arguments in about 5 seconds.

      Do you realize that binary star systems are not at all rare? In many cases one of the pair is not detectable by visible light because it is a brown dwarf or some other hard to detect case. So what in your understanding of classical mechanics makes this sort of investigation utter folly (in under 5 seconds no less). Bear in mind that what appear to be reputable scientists have investigated the possibility but obviously without positive results so far. I imagine that some of these scientists may even match your knowledge of classical mechanics and nonlinear dynamics.

    8. Re:cool! by zippthorne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would like to point out that, separate from this issue, amateur astronomers are quite capable and in some instances have equipment rivaling professional gear. IIRC, something like 50% of newly discovered bodies in the solar system are found by amateur astromers. Their huge number of eyes is an invaluable resource to the scientific community.

      Tycho Brahe was an amateur astronomer.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    9. Re:cool! by notsoanonymouscoward · · Score: 1

      and this.. is why I still come to /.

      --
      I ate my sig.
    10. Re:cool! by MustardMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes I do realize binary star systems are not rare. Not detecting it by visible light is exactly WHY classical mechanics comes into play - all you're really doing is dealing with a bunch of forces that go like 1/r^2. Investigating it for the sake of completeness is certainly not folly - however the arguments on the website linked in the article are nonsense.

      I can't find it again at the moment - but I saw somewhere that they implied that the inaccuracy of predictions in precession over time was a result of our current theories being flawed, and that the binary theory somehow magically removed this inaccuracy. This is an example of the utter bullshit that anyone with an understanding of nonlinear dynamics would notice immediately. You're dealing with a many-body system here. That's inherently chaotic. That means, it's exponentially sensitive to initial conditions. Therefore, as time goes on your results get worse and worse due to small measurement errors in your initial conditions. NO MODEL can remove this effect and still claim to use newtonian physics - the equations are nonlinear and involve more than three objects interacting - therefore the equations of motion are chaotic. Period.

      OF COURSE YOU CAN GET MORE ACCURATE RESULTS WHEN YOU PUT IN AN IMAGINARY EXTRA OBJECT - you can TUNE the parameters of this object arbitrarily to try to fit the experimental data. If I collect a bunch of data from all kinds of experiments, I can easily find a tenth order polynomial and get a very accurate fit to the data. This is also completely meaningless because all those fit parameters have no physical meaning.

    11. Re:cool! by MustardMan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Equipment and ability to catalog objects - yes, absolutely. Anyone with a little money and time has the capability to make an amazing discovery. They do NOT, however, have the intense mathematical training to rigorously support a THEORY about said discovery. That doesn't make their discovery any less significant, but making a discovery and arguing a theory are very different things.

    12. Re:cool! by CuriHP · · Score: 1

      Having all the tools is a step in the right direction, but it's not everything.

      You can put me in a garage filled with all kinds of automotive tools. It doesn't mean I'd be abe to fix my car.

      --
      If it's not on fire, it's a software problem.
    13. Re:cool! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      OF COURSE YOU CAN GET MORE ACCURATE RESULTS WHEN YOU PUT IN AN IMAGINARY EXTRA OBJECT - you can TUNE the parameters of this object arbitrarily to try to fit the experimental data.
      Have you ever heard of the Cosmological Constant? Some of the brightest minds in Physics take such an 'imaginary extra object' very seriously.
    14. Re:cool! by Shimmer · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but if all those "fit parameters" happen to correspond to a body with a plausible mass and velocity, then it becomes harder to dismiss as having no physical meaning.

      I'm not saying that the precession data point to such a body, but I think it was exactly the kind of logic that you decry that led to the discovery of Pluto.

      --
      The most rabid believers in American Exceptionalism are the exact same people whose policies are destroying it.
    15. Re:cool! by anarchyboy · · Score: 1

      tycho brahe just measuered postions on the known wandering stars for ages, apparently just foor the crack of it he didn't do any real science he just had good equipment and a lot of time on his hands. It wasn't till keppler got hold of his data that anything usefull happned. Amatuer astonomers may be good at finding new objects in the night sky but that doesn't mean they all have the training to fully analayse what they find.

    16. Re:cool! by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      OF COURSE YOU CAN GET MORE ACCURATE RESULTS WHEN YOU PUT IN AN IMAGINARY EXTRA OBJECT
       
      So, you're uh, kidding, right? Are you at all familiar with Copernicus? He's credited with comming up with the first heliocentric model (meaning the earth isn't at the center of the universe). How did he do it? He took all the data recorded about how the planets and sun revolved around the earth, and then replotted it in such a fashion that the earth was the "third rock from the sun". Suprise, suprise, this exercise in what he thought was futility, several hundred years later was rediscovered and became modern astronomy canon. All because he shifted some things around.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    17. Re:cool! by miro+f · · Score: 1

      for a long time there was a theory about a planet inside the orbit of Mercury, due to an unexplained irregularity in the orbit of Mercury. Everyone was convinced there was a planet there, even calculated where it was and everything, until eventually Einsteins theory of relativity explained the whole thing and there was no planet.

      This is very likely the same thing

      --
      being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
    18. Re:cool! by Thomas+Miconi · · Score: 1

      but I saw somewhere that they implied that the inaccuracy of predictions in precession over time was a result of our current theories being flawed, and that the binary theory somehow magically removed this inaccuracy. This is an example of the utter bullshit that anyone with an understanding of nonlinear dynamics would notice immediately. You're dealing with a many-body system here. That's inherently chaotic.

      Uh ? Certainly you're aware that Neptune was discovered by calculations based on the anomalous trajectories of known planets, right ? You're also aware that one of the triumphs of relativity was its ability to explain bizarre quirks in the orbit of Mercury.

      Now maybe in this particular case the inaccuracies are not compatible with a "hidden star" (or can easily be explained without it), but saying that inacurracies in many-bodies problems cannot be exploited for discovering new things is just plain wrong.

    19. Re:cool! by steve_bryan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You're dealing with a many-body system here. That's inherently chaotic.

      Take a look at Structure and Interpretation of Classical Mechanics by Sussman and Wisdom. On page 255 they mention a published result from 1964 by Henon and Heiles. They found some trajectories were chaotic while others are regular. More specifically they found the solutions clustered in phase space into regions of regular and regions of chaotic motion. In other words I believe you are leaning too heavily on popular notions of nonlinear dynamics and chaos (which tends to find chaos everywhere). It is not that I am automatically accepting the Nemesis hypothesis. Only that it is a reasonable theory that would have to be proven or disproven by careful observation.

      The Nemesis hypothesis includes the constraint that the Sun and this object are separated on a scale that is larger than the Solar System and the period could well be millions of years. That would make detecting it challenging given the limited time scale over which we have any observational data.

    20. Re:cool! by jcuervo · · Score: 1
      Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
      Just wait til I get going!

      ... Where was I?

      --
      Assume I was drunk when I posted this.
    21. Re:cool! by MustardMan · · Score: 1

      The cosmological constant is not an "imaginary extra object". It is a fundamental constant like the mass of an electron or the permeability of free space.

    22. Re:cool! by MustardMan · · Score: 1

      So shifting known objects around in such a way that they better fit the data is now the same thing as adding an imaginary star of arbitrary mass and position? Right.

    23. Re:cool! by MustardMan · · Score: 1

      but saying that inacurracies in many-bodies problems cannot be exploited for discovering new things is just plain wrong.

      And that's not what I said. I said claiming your theory removes the buildup of inaccuracies over time is just plain wrong. That is a fundamental feature of nonlinear equations, and no new object could ever be added to remove it.

      Of course you can discover new planets based on the idea of a perturbation to the already assumed solution. You're talking about a minor increase in accuracy though - these folks, like most crackpots, claim that everything we do now is HORRIBLY flawed and only they hold the answers. That's the hallmark of bad science. All the data undeniably lead to an accurate description of neptune's position, so we knew where to look and found it. This "theory" involves data that very much DOES NOT lead to any reasonable prediction about this object - it's pure conjecture based on the questionably cyclic nature of Earth extinctions.

    24. Re:cool! by MustardMan · · Score: 1

      I wrote my undergraduate thesis, in physics, in nonlinear dynamics - I'm pretty familiar with the subject ;)

      Yes, a nonlinear system has the ability to exhibit regions of chaotic behavior and regions that are non-chaotic. As the simplest example, consider the logistic map, and the famous bifurcation diagram. For low values of the parameter, you get nice periodic behavior no matter what initial number you feed in. As you increase the paramter you move into regions which are chaotic, but still contain those periodic orbits, albeit unstably. Move further along in parameters and you move into nonchaotic regimes again.

      However, this is a simplistic system. When you move into many-body, you obviously have metastable periodic orbits - look at our own solar system. However, the probability of finding true stable periodic orbits becomes smaller and smaller as you add more objects. Essentially, you've moved into a region of parameter space where there is only chaotic behavior.

      As a curiosisity, it's not unreasonable to ask if we are still in the transients. That is, when a theorist studys a chaotic system, he usually gives it some initial conditions, then lets it run for a while, so it can settle into its long-term behavior. Put another way, you start out at a point in phase space and allow the trajectory to fall into the strange attractor. Now this part is pure speculation, and unlike the evil planet people - I would never call it a theory. It's quite possible that our universe is still within the transients period, and has not settled into any long-term behavior. In that case, the exponential sensitivity to initial conditions would still be there no matter what the final attractor looks like.

    25. Re:cool! by Odin's+Raven · · Score: 1
      I'm confused, was that a joke?

      It's a parody of the "battle of wits" scene from The Princess Bride.

      --
      A marriage is always made up of two people who are prepared to swear that only the other one snores.
    26. Re:cool! by Civil_Disobedient · · Score: 1

      You've already been modded into the stratosphere, I just wanted to give an additional hearty "YES" to your comment.

    27. Re:cool! by steve_bryan · · Score: 1

      ... I would never call it a theory. It's quite possible that our universe is still within the transients period, ...

      Now you're starting to sound like an eccentric. My point was that there was not any immediately discernable reason from classical mechanics or more comtemporary dynamical systems theory that rule out the Nemesis hypothesis. We already know there are many binary star systems and that in some of these one of the pair is not clearly visible. You don't need any more for an existence proof. The question is what would we have to observe or measure to detect or rule out this possibility.

      Like many if not most questions in science it is dealt with by careful observation and measurement rather than ridicule. Some opponents of Kepler's theories argued that the notion that our earth was spinning and revolving around the sun was preposterous to anyone with any sense. After all do you feel like you are hurtling through space at the predicted speeds? Anyone with a smattering of Aristotelean physics could dispose of that nonsense in short order.

    28. Re:cool! by steve_bryan · · Score: 1

      for a long time there was a theory about a planet inside the orbit of Mercury, due to an unexplained irregularity in the orbit of Mercury. Everyone was convinced there was a planet there, even calculated where it was and everything, until eventually Einsteins theory of relativity explained the whole thing and there was no planet.

      This is very likely the same thing


      This is probably the planet Vulcan hypothesis that was used to explain the advancing perihelion of the orbit of Mercury by adding a planet called Vulcan that had not yet been observed. This was proposed by Le Verrier, a French mathematician in 1859. The calculations he used were the same sort as he used to discover the planet Neptune earlier. Because of the difficulty of observations of planets closer to the sun than Mercury there was more than a little chaos for many years where some would claim to have observed it and others disputing it.

      I don't think this is the same since Le Verrier had an observation (advancing perihelion of Mercury's orbit) which he used to calculate where the missing planet should be found. I believe the Nemesis hypothesis is more speculative without the sort of smoking gun that Le Verrier had.

    29. Re:cool! by MustardMan · · Score: 1

      If that sounds eccentric, it's pretty clear you don't work around physicists!

      I never said nonlinear dynamics ruled out the possibility of a Nemesis planet - I said it was an example of one of the idiotic claims made by the proponents of said theory.

    30. Re:cool! by steve_bryan · · Score: 1

      What you said in your first comment was:

      What you DO need is an understanding of classical mechanics. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one here who knows enough classical mechanics to see the faults in their arguments in about 5 seconds.

      As you have probably discovered I was mainly arguing that the Nemesis hypothesis in general could not so easily be dismissed rather than claiming to support the specific argument made at the web site. However, I went back to that web site and again I would say even relative to that web site your assertion seems less than persuasive (specifically concerning immediately visible faults). I might add that you would do well to note that there are probably many people here who have studied classical mechanics at the undergradute and graduate level so just trying to pull rank is lame. Also it should be recalled that disputes about the precession of orbits in the past led to the discovery of new planets such as Neptune and Pluto. Also even if there are problems with the arguments put forth on the web site that does not mean the conclusions are necessarily wrong or not worth study. Don't forget that when Wiles presented his proof of Fermat's Last Theorem his proof had a significant error. It took a while to find and about a year for Wiles to use another approach to fix that portion of the proof.

    31. Re:cool! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So Richard Muller, the famed astrophysicist and recipient of a genius grant, who proposed the Nemesis theory in the 1980s and still believes in it is a crackpot too? Are Piet Hut and Marc Davis crackpots too? Was Luis Alvarez a crackpot?

      The Nemesis theory is looking increasingly unlikely, but it is no crackpot theory.

  8. Beam me up...Scotty by threedognit3 · · Score: 0

    I'd like to know what Captain Kirk would say about this.

    1. Re:Beam me up...Scotty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...It's hype Jim, but nobody believes it anyway..."

    2. Re:Beam me up...Scotty by threedognit3 · · Score: 1

      Is he dead...jim? Damn it Kirk...I'm only a doctor Or...Damn it doc...I'm only a Jim

    3. Re:Beam me up...Scotty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      KHAAAAAN!!!!!!!

    4. Re:Beam me up...Scotty by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Actually, in this case you want Captain Picard instead.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  9. Nemesis Blamed for Periodic Extinction by Mrs.+Grundy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Scientific Amercian ran a story several years ago about this. One of the pet theories at the time was that periodic extinctions (which haven't been proven periodic) were caused by objects like comets getting kicked out of the Oort every now and then which could in turn be explained by just such a neighbor star. Nasa has a (very short) page here: Imagine the Universe

    1. Re:Nemesis Blamed for Periodic Extinction by mgar · · Score: 1

      That may be the case, but it doesn't explain the theory that is proposed that the the nemesis star is of a similar size to our sun. Also, could the gravitational pull from a star tens of light years away explain this. Seems far fetched at best.

    2. Re:Nemesis Blamed for Periodic Extinction by __aanonl8035 · · Score: 2, Informative


      Another theory I remember reading about is that the Oort comet cloud becomes disturbed by the sun shifting up and down in an oscillation. Apparently the sun wobbles up and down as it rotates around the center of the Milky Way.

      http://www.viewzone.com/nemesis.html
      http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDet ail/assetid/24618

    3. Re:Nemesis Blamed for Periodic Extinction by flyingsquid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It was David Raup and John Sepkoski who argued for 26-million year periodicity, using a statistical analysis of the fossil record; others argued that this was just a statistical artifact. These days, the idea looks hard to defend. The problem is that periodicity implies a common mechanism for mass extinctions. However, while some extinctions seem to have been caused by comet or asteroid impacts (such as the Triassic mass extinction that gave the dinosaurs their opportunity, and the Cretaceous mass extinction that later did in the dinosaurs), the mother of all mass extinctions, the Permian event, appears to have been caused by massive volcanic eruptions. Which is kind of a pity, because it's an interesting idea.

    4. Re:Nemesis Blamed for Periodic Extinction by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Wouldn't it be possible for a large metereor/meterorite (dammit, which is the correct term for one that actually hits?) to actually cause volcanic events? If a big one hits, and punchs a nice old hole in the crust, lots of mantle would come bubbling up, right? All kinds of tectonic aftershocks too. Or is that farfetched?

    5. Re:Nemesis Blamed for Periodic Extinction by linzeal · · Score: 1

      Find the crater.

    6. Re:Nemesis Blamed for Periodic Extinction by aminorex · · Score: 1

      "the sun wobbles up and down"

      i think copernicus showed that it was really the earth doing that. get with the times, dude. we're all, like, heliocentric and stuff.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
  10. Not likely by Belseth · · Score: 3, Interesting

    An actual brown dwarf isn't likely given scarce evidence but there seems to be reason to believe there are one or more large Kupier Belt objects yet to be found. I've read about gravitational anomalies for years now but they just don't seem large enough to indicate a failed star close enough to call us a near miss binary system. I guess if all the outer planets merged we'd have the makings of a brown dwarf but as we are the system seems to be one of those rare single star systems.

    1. Re:Not likely by Cadallin · · Score: 1

      Nope, jupiter is about only 1/8 the mass needed to make it a proper brown dwarf, and it's far and away the most massive of the planets, throw in Saturn and all the other planets, plus the asteroid belt, and all known Kupier Belt objects, and you're only up to about 3/8 or so of a brown dwarf at the very most, and I'm being generous.

    2. Re:Not likely by arminw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      .....as we are the system seems to be one of those rare single star systems......

      Good thing for us that there isn't another object the mass of the sun within about 3.8 light years of earth. Even as it is, the planets do influence one another's orbits, but their masses and spacing are such as to keep the earth's orbit from getting too elliptical. Because of the nearly circular orbit, the distance to the sun is constant enough keep the temperature within the bounds needed for life. Another object approaching the mass of the sun would force the orbit to be more elliptical, which would make this planet unsuitable for life as we know it. About half of the known stars are too close to each other for any of those to have a planet that could keep its temperature in the very narrow range wherein water exists in its liquid form. The temperature specs for higher life forms are considerably narrower than this. The nearest star to earth is Alpha Centauri, a nice safe 4.2 light years distant.

      --
      All theory is gray
    3. Re:Not likely by qeveren · · Score: 1

      Actually, from what I understand, a Sun-like star could pass as close as (roughly) Neptune's orbit without disrupting the Earth's orbit enough to matter. Assuming, of course, that the interloper star doesn't like, throw Neptune at us... :)

      --
      Don't just stand there, get that other dog!
    4. Re:Not likely by PeterBrett · · Score: 1
      The nearest star to earth is Alpha Centauri, a nice safe 4.2 light years distant.

      Actually, it's Proxima Centauri (we're not yet sure whether that orbits Alpha Centauri A/B). </pedant>

    5. Re:Not likely by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Actually, if you want to be pedant, the nearest star to Earth is the Sun, by a long shot.

    6. Re:Not likely by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      Another object approaching the mass of the sun would force the orbit to be more elliptical, which would make this planet unsuitable for life as we know it. About half of the known stars are too close to each other for any of those to have a planet that could keep its temperature in the very narrow range wherein water exists in its liquid form.

      Mammals, perhaps, couldn't evolve in such a scenario, but plenty of life on earth deals with changes from periods of plenty of liquid water to no liquid water (either because it's ice, or because it's all dried up) on a regular basis. Many species even rely on the transitions to trigger the changes between different phases of their life cycle. There is no reason to believe that if the periods were longer, or the freezes deeper that much of the life on earth as we know it couldn't survive in the conditions you have described. There would just have to be a portion of each orbit where there was liquid water, which doesn't seem too far fetched.

    7. Re:Not likely by aminorex · · Score: 1

      And some folks will tell you that Jupiter is the second nearest, as it actually radiates more than it absorbs. But then I think by that criterion the Earth itself would be the closest star to the Earth, as I think the fission in the mantle creates a net positive output here as well, thus providing a reductio to the semantic utility of that criterion.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    8. Re:Not likely by arminw · · Score: 1

      ....Actually, from what I understand, a Sun-like star could pass.....

      The article was not about some object just passing through, but an object the mass of the sun being in a binary system with the sun.

      --
      All theory is gray
    9. Re:Not likely by arminw · · Score: 1

      ....Mammals, perhaps, couldn't evolve in such a scenario, but plenty of life on earth deals with changes.....

      There are of course lower life forms and even warm blooded creatures (penguins) that can take some pretty extreme conditions, especially of cold, but there is not much of anything that can survive at 100C or above for long, if at all. Certainly Mercury and Venus are way too hot for any kind of life. Complex biological processes operate most efficiently in a very narrow range, the blood temperature of the warm blooded species.

      To have a planet that can have intelligent life (what SETI is looking for) needs to have a number of other narrowly defined specifications. There must be water and oxygen (the right amount of each) and those require a minimum and maximum size (mass). Too high a mass would not allow poisonous gases like methane to escape from the atmosphere, a planet like Venus and larger. Too small mass and the planet could not retain water. It would evaporate into space, and make a planet like Mars or Mrecury.

      The rotation rate must be reasonable. If too slow, it gets too cold at night and if too fast, the storms in the atmosphere can get really devastating. There are other critcal specs, such as the size and location of the moon(s) (if any), a magnetic field to deflect damaging charged particles, carbon dioxide-water vapor balance, uv shielding (ozone or equivalent) and others.

      The star such a planet orbits must meet certain specs also. Too large a star would cause its long term energy output vary more than living things could stand. A too tiny star would force the planet to be too close to its sun to get enough heat for life. This would mess up the rotation of tsuch a planet and cause tidal forces that would make life difficult if at all possible.

      There are other requirements, such as the spectral quality of the light and others.

      Statistical analysis by modern computer methods shows that by random processes alone much fewer than one trillionth of one trillionth of one precent of all stars might be part of a system such as what we call the solar system, our home. Since the universe contains about a trillion galaxies, with each galaxy some 100 billion stars, that leaves us still far short of even one planet such as Earth coming into existence by any random evolutionary process. SETI is a big waste of money!

      --
      All theory is gray
  11. How in the world... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... could we possibly find the outer planets by observing their influence on the inner planets' orbits, if there were a freaking brown dwarf in the neighborhood that we didn't know about?

    Something like that would've ruined Kepler's whole day.

    1. Re:How in the world... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Something like that would've ruined Kepler's whole day.

      It wouldn't be the first time a revolutionary was found wrong, and it certainly will not be the last.
      Think of Hwang Woo-suk. Can we please think of Hwang Woo-Suk?

    2. Re:How in the world... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed! Can we please think of something to put in the Wikipedia arcticle?!
      I can think of several, but I'd rather not start a page off with it being vandalized...

    3. Re:How in the world... by boarder8925 · · Score: 1
      How in the world could we possibly find the outer planets by observing their influence on the inner planets' orbits, if there were a freaking brown dwarf in the neighborhood that we didn't know about?
      Maybe because we looked outside our world? You know, in that big thing they call "the universe"? It's just a thought....
    4. Re:How in the world... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      correct link: Hwang Woo-Suk

    5. Re:How in the world... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you mean the detection of Neptune and Pluto by calculation, those calculations predicted amazingly accurately where both those planets would be found... considering that they had numerous errors in them.

      They kept looking for Pluto because Neptune kept exhibiting weirdness. Pluto wasn't anywhere near the size they were looking for. I'm not sure if they eventually decided that all those calculations were erroneous or whether there are really perturbations in Neptune and Uranus' orbit that could be caused by a tenth planet.

      Anyway, those mathematical planet discoveries were accidents.

    6. Re:How in the world... by penguin-collective · · Score: 1

      The proposed distance for Nemesis is of the order of 1 light year, so it isn't exactly "close".

      Given bounds on its probable mass, brightness, and distance, it is a reasonable possibility that such an object wouldn't have been observed yet. However, there also aren't strong reasons to postulate its existence either, so most people assume nothing's there.

    7. Re:How in the world... by anarchyboy · · Score: 1

      so you're saying we can observe loads of other much further away browndwarfs but we couldn't find one that's closer to us than anything else in the gallaxy?

    8. Re:How in the world... by penguin-collective · · Score: 1

      Basically, yes. It took 20 years of searching to find the first one in 1995, and that's looking for any brown dwarf anywhere.

      Astronomers have a pretty good handle of what parts of the sky they have surveyed and what kinds of objects they can detect, and there is still a lot of surveying to do before a stellar companion to the sun can be excluded. Given the high frequency of brown dwarfs in the galaxy, until the survey is completed and excludes the possibility, it is reasonable to believe that a companion may exist.

    9. Re:How in the world... by mcvos · · Score: 1

      According to H.P. Lovecraft, we found Pluto only because aliens wanted us to.

    10. Re:How in the world... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      =O

    11. Re:How in the world... by CWRUisTakingMyMoney · · Score: 1

      Simple: we didn't find the outer planets that way. Uranus and Neptune, IIRC, were discovered by comparing photographs of the night sky to see what moved over the course of time, which is just a case of routine astronomy, especially as it was done at the time. Pluto was found when astronomers were looking for a 9th planet to explain orbital anonolies (sp?) in Neptune. However, they stumbled upon Pluto by sheer luck; it appeared where they were looking, but as time went on astronomers realized that Pluto could not be nearly massive enough to cause the oddness of Neptune's orbit. So, really, that has yet to be (fully) explained, and perhaps a brown dwarf way out there somewhere could do that.

      --
      Those who anthropomorphize science and/or nature already believe in an intelligent designer.
    12. Re:How in the world... by SEE · · Score: 3, Informative

      Brown dwarfs max out at about 29,000 Earth masses, and the distance of Nemesis wuld be no closer than a light-year or so (63,000 AU). Gravity follows an inverse-square of the distance law.

      The Earth masses divided by approximate average AU distance squared value for the pull of Neptune's gravity on Uranus is ~0.02, with a max at closest approach of ~0.14. The equivalent value for the pull of Nemesis on Uranus is ~0.000007.

      So, the average gravitational pull of Neptune on Uranus is about three thousand times greater than the pull of Nemesis, if it exists, on Uranus. The pull of the Earth on Uranus works out to about three hundred and fifty times the pull of a maximum-size Nemesis on Uranus. This means the pull of Nemesis on the solar system is so low as to be lost in the noise of orbital measurement and planetary mass estimate errors.

    13. Re:How in the world... by SEE · · Score: 1

      They had the masses of the outer planets wrong by as much as a percent, and there was a specific set of bad observational data being used as part of the calculations of Uranus's orbit. The gravitationally-influenced flight arcs of the Voyager probes have given us much better data, and if we'd been using our current numbers in the early 20th, nobody would have been looking for a ninth planet based on the orbits of the gas giants.

  12. BIG error in article summary by MustardMan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The summary states...

    Recent observations of two nearby stars (assumed companions)

    Whereas the space.com article states...

    Each of the two disks has a sharp outer edge that might be caused by an unseen companion star

    READ THAT AGAIN FOLKS - they are NOT assuming these two stars are companions. They are NOT a binary star system. They are simply two stars that have similar disks as our own solar system. They think a POSSIBLE cause for these disks MIGHT be an unseen companion, but NO unseen companion has been seen. This discovery leads NO MORE CREDIBILITY to the nemesis "theoory" whatsover - all it says is that there are other stars with similar structures to our own. The cause of this structure has not been observed.

    1. Re:BIG error in article summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't an unseen companion being seen be a paradox. Or a pair of docks.

    2. Re:BIG error in article summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NO unseen companion has been seen

      No fucking shit.

    3. Re:BIG error in article summary by MustardMan · · Score: 1

      Indeed - that was intentional to point out the absurdity of using this observation to try to justify the binary system argument. All this has done is brought up the same nonsense people have been laughing off since the 80's.

    4. Re:BIG error in article summary by YU+Nicks+NE+Way · · Score: 1
      All this has done is brought up the same nonsense people have been laughing off since the 80's.
      The 1880's, you mean, right?
    5. Re:BIG error in article summary by 0xC2 · · Score: 1

      Ouch! Yes I erred large there. Still the binary star idea is an interesting possibility. Ranks with the possibility of intelligent life on other planets, meaning it's controversial,there is rational and reasonable arguments for it, but not close to being proven.

      --
      Be heard || Be herd
    6. Re:BIG error in article summary by MustardMan · · Score: 1

      The first mention of this binary solar system concept I could find was by a physicist in the 1980's - have you seen something that came earlier?

    7. Re:BIG error in article summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      READ THAT AGAIN FOLKS - they are NOT assuming these two stars are companions. They are NOT a binary star system. They are simply two stars that have similar disks as our own solar system.
      True, they are not companions of each other, or of our sun. However, the sharp edge of their discs indicates that something is eating away at it, apparently in orbit about the central visible star. This presumed companion star hasn't been directly observed, but I assume they can make reasonable estimates of its mass. If it is large enough to be a brown dwarf, that would quite likely be very hard to see owing to low luminosity. So the evidence cannot be just rejectd out of hand...
      ...but NO unseen companion has been seen.
      I'd like to frame that sentence :-) But seriously even with good gravitational/structural evidence, it might be hard to see.
    8. Re:BIG error in article summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you HAVE to CAPITALIZE every other WORD in your post to lend CREDENCE to what you're SAYING, you might want to RETHINK posting at ALL. It's terribly ANNOYING for the rest of us to READ, and doesn't really HELP you in getting PEOPLE to take you SERIOUSLY.

    9. Re:BIG error in article summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "but NO unseen companion has been seen"

      Wow, that's very suprising.

    10. Re:BIG error in article summary by netzwerg · · Score: 0, Redundant

      but NO unseen companion has been seen

      Oh, really?

    11. Re:BIG error in article summary by MustardMan · · Score: 1

      Actually it's because I've gotten so sick of people replying to my posts and trying to rebuke my arguments without reading carefully enough.

      For example, I say dogs can not fly. Random /. troll replies and says "you idiot, only birds can fly" - completely missing the not. So I capitolize to eliminate one more type of annoying reply. It has nothing to do with leading credence to my posts. It has everything to do with the annoying nature of some /. posters.

    12. Re:BIG error in article summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Invisible Pink Unicorn has no problem seeing this companion.

  13. MOD Parent FUNNY by masdog · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    If I only had mod points....

  14. Twin stars... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Twins are hot!

    1. Re:Twin stars... by MaXiMiUS · · Score: 0

      That's the general idea, y'know, giant mass of burning gas and all. Oh.. wait.. OH!

      --
      It's never just a game when you're winning. - George Carlin
  15. I don't think so... by PieSquared · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At the distances involved (in the outer reaches of the kupier belt, about a light year), I guess we wouldn't really notice anything but a brighter star, but I still don't really think this is a possibility. Do the math: v=sqrt(Gm/r) where G is 6.67*10^-11, m is the mass of our sun, and r is the distance between them... 1.21746415*10^-6 meters per second orbital velocity. That's about one meter every 9.5 earth years. Anyone else think that seems a bit... unlikley? Also, the of gravity between the earth and the sun is about 1000 times as strong as with another star of the sun's mass one light year away. I don't think such a system would be stable, as a large astroid passing close to one might well pull it enough out of "orbit," if you can call such a small speed "orbit," so that you'd notice it was no longer binary. For the record, at one AU distance, it would take the system 5.64701404*10^17 years for an orbit. That's like 10 order of magnitude longer then the sun's life span.

    --
    Does a line appended to your comment give your post meaning in and of itself, or only in relation to those without?
    1. Re:I don't think so... by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      The outer reaches of the Kuiper belt are nothing like a light-year away. They're around 50 Astronomical Units, 1/4000 of a light-year.

      Also, note that there are stars that orbit each other that far apart. So your intution has led you astray.

    2. Re:I don't think so... by notnAP · · Score: 1
      For the record, at one AU distance, it would take the system 5.64701404*10^17 years for an orbit. That's like 10 order of magnitude longer then the sun's life span.


      I'm taking your calcualtions for granted. But this seems to pretty well blow this puppy out of the water. Even if such a star were to exist, I can hardly see us as a binary pair. More like two ships passing in the night, sharing a very slight influence on each other's systems via gravity.

    3. Re:I don't think so... by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      But are there stars orbiting that distance with planetary systems? I would think that such proximity would perturb the hell out of whatever was there. The only analogue I can think of is the earth-moon system, where the only satellites are artificial and maintiained by active thrusting. (and maybe pluto-charon, but we won't know much more about that for a decade)

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    4. Re:I don't think so... by miro+f · · Score: 2, Informative

      For the record, at one AU distance, it would take the system 5.64701404*10^17 years for an orbit. That's like 10 order of magnitude longer then the sun's life span.

      you might have to check your maths there. I haven't checked the validity of your other calculations but considering you let this whopper through I can probably dismiss them all as false, since it doesn't lend you much credability. Anyone with a basic grasp of astrophysics would know that an orbit at a distance 1 AU around our Sun takes exactly 1.0 Earth years to complete. It doesn't need to be calculated because we have a good example of this kind of orbit (eg. our planet).

      Rotation time depends on the object being rotated around, not the object doing the rotation. Of course, when you're talking about a companion star, it's gravity is large enough to change this, however, because the gravitic pull between the two objects is greater, the orbit is shorter.

      go buy yourself a new calculator

      --
      being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
    5. Re:I don't think so... by miro+f · · Score: 1

      There's no need to take the calculation for granted. You can work it out yourself. here's a hint: 1 AU = the distance from the Sun to the Earth

      --
      being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
    6. Re:I don't think so... by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      At that distance, the planet systems are probably OK. You get distruption with closer binaries, but a light-year is pretty far out. A factor of 4000 in distances leads to a factor of 16 million in gravitational accelerations, after all.

      Even in the Earth-Moon system, the Moon's effects on satellites is minor. (Drag from the atmosphere is a far bigger player and the main need for thrusters in most cases.)

    7. Re:I don't think so... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      There must be something wrong with your math... the reason they picked an orbit that far out was because the star needs to have a 20-30 million year orbit. An orbit that's 10^17 years doesn't fit.

    8. Re:I don't think so... by Xantharus · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Well, he isn't the only one who doesn't have a basic grasp of astrophysics. A orbital distance of 1AU will only yield a 1 year orbit if the mass of one of the objects is negligable compared to the other. Since the consideration here is something on the scale of a Brown Dwarf (3-5% of the mass of the Sun), the lesser mass cannot be neglected in the calculation of the Reduced Mass (which is used to solve the Two-Body Problem). The rotation period does depend on both of the bodies because they work into the reduced mass.

    9. Re:I don't think so... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, it does depend on mass -- but the guy was going in the wrong direction.

      If object X is more massive than the Earth, and if X orbits the Sun with a constant distance of 1 AU, then X must have an orbital period of *less* than 1 year.

    10. Re:I don't think so... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice troll.

    11. Re:I don't think so... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm. You say a companion only one light year away would take 45 billion years to complete a single orbit? You better check the math. A snail could go there in less time. Estimate for our Sun to go around the galactic core is only 240 million years - and thats about 24,000 light years away. Like to guess again?

  16. Uh, huh huh huhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh by xsspd2004 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    He said, "Kuiper Belt".

    --
    This is not an illusion, a rip-off, or a ninja technique!
  17. That's not news. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    You guys heard that the Earth is flat, too, right?

  18. Been there, done that, got the (novel)? by BadEvilYoda · · Score: 4, Informative

    Isaac Asimov has a novel with this exact premise, written in 1989, titled Nemesis (as if you expected something different). "Evil" companion star for the sun which caused all the mass extinctions, etc. Of course, in the novel there are multiple civilizations, a battle over whether Earth should be saved, etc... but the basic premise is the same. 17 years later, still just as fictional as it was then.

    1. Re:Been there, done that, got the (novel)? by miro+f · · Score: 2, Funny

      wait a second... in that novel Nemisis was on a collision course with our sun! We're all screwed!

      --
      being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
    2. Re:Been there, done that, got the (novel)? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      =O

  19. What? by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 5, Informative

    You don't need a companion to produce a sharp edge in the Kuiper belt. Simulations have shown that. Anyone who makes the assertion that the edges suggest such a thing ought to have at least become familiar with that research.

    Furthermore, the analogy to Saturn's rings is, I suspect, misleading. The moons that directly shape the outer edge of the A ring are close to the ring and small. (They are tied to other moons via resoances so the whole system is strung together, but that's not what's being argued for here.) A star would be much more massive than the Kuiper belt and would seriously disrupt the system rather than maintain it. (It would also be pretty obvious if it were just beyond the orbit of the outer edge of the Kuiper belt. We'd feel it here, for a start.) A more distant star might be able to hold back the edge of the belt with a resonance, but that's a different thing. And odds are that such a companion would destroy a belt more readily than maintain it. (Look at Jupiter and the asteroid belt.)

    It should also be noted that 300 million years is a short time in solar system terms. It's even shorter for the outer solar system where it's about one million orbits. Since things move slowly and there is little material out there, spreading is very slow. Ones the material is placed there by a larger body (like Neptune), it tends to stay put for quite a while.

    1. Re:What? by abertoll · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I noticed they said that those stars are 300 million years old, while ours is 4.6 billion. That's a pretty big difference. I'm not sure how they can be related.

      --
      "he drew his sword Ringil that glittered like ice... and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds..."
  20. MOD PARENT UP by imaginieus · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you convert that message back to ASCII, you will find that it is ontopic and actually quite funny.

    1. Re:MOD PARENT UP by drgonzo59 · · Score: 1

      Also if you convert it to EBCDIC it looks like gibberish, so -- 'No' don't mod (grand) parent up as funny...

    2. Re:MOD PARENT UP by RequiemX · · Score: 0

      I would accept that criticism only if your reply was composed on an IBM mainframe. I worked hard on my little ASCII-binary converter. Got an "A" on it in Fortran Programming. Damn right: Fortran. BOW!

    3. Re:MOD PARENT UP by drgonzo59 · · Score: 1

      My reply was written by a program I wrote on punchcards and ran it on an IBM mainframe -- so there! I'll see your Fortran and raise it by a punchard reader!

    4. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Melfina · · Score: 1

      I'll see you both; I wrote this comment out on paper and sent it via sneaker-net to the server farm where /. grazes, and fed my comment to it manually~

      --
      :3 rawr.
    5. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yo, mofo I so pwned your mofoing a$$, I 313373 haxxord dat serv-farm and posted this comment using meh 313373 MD5 brootforcer Taco's pwd and like fucking logged into dat account, so there!

    6. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trivia question: What character has the same hexidecimal value in ASCII and EBCDIC?

      Answer:

    7. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bah... I altered space and time for this message to appear on slashdot as if it was entered by a poor sod sitting in front of a computer in Australia.

    8. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did better than that: this messasge was here a week ago.

    9. Re:MOD PARENT UP by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      Using dichaotic theory, I have made is so that this message does not in fact exist, and instead everyone only "thinks" they have read something, when in fact nothing exists. Any attempts to verfiy or falsify this will lead to the same effect.

      All this was done using an elastic band, stick of gum, and a swiss army knife.

      The original post was dumb. No one goes about decoding ASCII anymore.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    10. Re:MOD PARENT UP by RequiemX · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry. I admit that I lied. I did not use any program I wrote for my Fortran class. I actually used my abacus. Sorry for the deception.

  21. Simple Calculations by drgonzo59 · · Score: 2, Funny
    The site presents simple calculations to suppot their claim!

    I would think for such a claim one would need more than just simple calculations .

    But anyway, in other news: "Dark matter coming to a store near you."

  22. Slashdot Horoscope! by GodHammre · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With all this pseudoscience crap floating around on slashdot we should open a horoscope section. It would make sense. But in all seriousness there is a possibility of a binary companion, but, this site is nothing more than pseudoscience. It dresses up a crazy astrology theory with a little bit of modern scientific sounding language. Be careful about what you post.

    1. Re:Slashdot Horoscope! by Cheapy · · Score: 1

      But they'd all be "You won't get layed..."

      --
      Would you kindly mod me +1 insightful?
  23. I, for one... by askadog · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    ... welcome our nemismatic overlords.

    1. Re:I, for one... by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      I two welcome our Nemismatic Overlords!

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
  24. Could someone explain what the hell this is about? by JourneyExpertApe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Are they suggesting that there may be a nearby star that astronomers have just failed to see for the past few millenia that we've been studying the sky? I thought the nearest star was light years away. Is it a very dim star? I don't get it!

    --
    If you can read this sig, you're too close.
  25. The idea's been around for a while by Dh5 · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.exitmundi.nl.nyud.net:8090/Nemesis.htm
    I actually re-read this article the other day. I had been visiting the site because of an odd 43 degree F temperature change overnight, and decided to check on that again. A temperature change of such a large amount, overnight, is not normal at all during January in NY. All the snow melted overnight.

    1. Re:The idea's been around for a while by freeweed · · Score: 1

      an odd 43 degree F temperature change overnight ... A temperature change of such a large amount, overnight, is not normal at all during January in NY. All the snow melted overnight.

      Come visit Calgary, Alberta. We have these all the time. They're called Chinooks, which incidentally is an aboriginal word for "snow eater". In California they're known as a Santa Ana wind.

      Sure you didn't grow some high mountain ranges just west of you recently? :)

      --
      Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
    2. Re:The idea's been around for a while by Jerf · · Score: 1

      I had been visiting the site because of an odd 43 degree F temperature change overnight, and decided to check on that again.

      Also, dogs are cavorting with cats, turnips grown in the fields are singing arias from Carmen, and Republicans and Democrats are admitting that the other side "may or may not have a point at this present time, but they're still unredeemable jackasses".

      Therefore, the Nemesis theory is true. QED.

    3. Re:The idea's been around for a while by JavaLord · · Score: 1

      odd 43 degree F temperature change overnight, and decided to check on that again. A temperature change of such a large amount, overnight, is not normal at all during January in NY.

      You haven't been living in the tri-state area for very long have you? I live in NJ, and the saying there goes "If you don't like the weather, wait a minute". We get odd swings in temperature often.

  26. Re:01000010011010010110111001100001011100100111100 by boarder8925 · · Score: 1
    Shoot! We live in a binary system?
    If you live in the Matrix you do. ;)
  27. Re:01000010011010010110111001100001011100100111100 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    01001001001000000111010001101000011010010110111001 10101100100000011000100111100100100000001001110110 01100111010101101110011011100111100100101100001001 11001000000111010001101000011001010010000001101101 01101111011001000111001100100000011011010110010101 10000101101110011101000010000000100111011000010110 11100110111001101111011110010110100101101110011001 110010111000100111

  28. That's odd... by Sheepdot · · Score: 0

    ...from what I remember, Star Trek X wasn't that big.

  29. Can we really call it a sun if by Rooked_One · · Score: 0

    it doesn't give us a sunburn? Come now

  30. Actually, Please Don't by irritating+environme · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Not funny. Not. Funny. It's Not. Sorry.

    --


    Hey, I'm just your average shit and piss factory.
    1. Re:Actually, Please Don't by masdog · · Score: 1

      To each their own.

  31. HAL 9000 posting here,from the AE-35 antenna!!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    All these world are yours except Europa.
    Use them together.
    Use them in peace. :hammertime:

  32. It's behind the sun by Centurix · · Score: 1

    As a kid I always liked the notion that there was something hidden behind the sun that rotates at a certain speed so as it is constantly hidden from us.

    --
    Task Mangler
    1. Re:It's behind the sun by miro+f · · Score: 1

      for an object to rotate at a speed to be behind the sun all the time, it needs to be the same distance away from the sun as us

      I have a feeling a sun that far away would be pretty noticable

      --
      being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
    2. Re:It's behind the sun by eluusive · · Score: 1

      Who told you that? It needs to have the same ANGULAR velocity as us, which doesn't require being the same distance away at all. Given that orbits are not circular however complicates the calculates a lot, but it is possible.

    3. Re:It's behind the sun by Malor · · Score: 1

      The farther out an orbit is, the slower it goes. For an object to be permanently behind the Sun from Earth, it would have to be in a mirror image of the orbit. From the point of view of the Sun, it would have to cross the same angle in the sky as Earth did in a given time period.

      If it's closer to the Sun, it will be too slow to maintain position, and will fall into a smaller, faster orbit. If it's further out than the Earth is, it will be going too fast to maintain its orbit based purely on gravity, and will rocket off into the deep dark.

      The only way an object could be precisely hidden from Earth without being in Earth's mirror-image orbit would be if it were under power. No natural object could be anywhere else.

    4. Re:It's behind the sun by Detritus · · Score: 1

      It seems to be a recurring theme in science fiction to have an anti-Earth on the opposite side of the Sun. Either they are mirror images of the real Earth or they are our evil cousins.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    5. Re:It's behind the sun by eluusive · · Score: 1
      I'm not convinced by your handwaving arguments that two diffferent orbits can't have the same linear velocity. I believe you're overlooking that orbit are a minimization problem involving the force due to gravity the of the sun, the mass of the planet. For any distance away from the sun you should be able to obtain whatever angular (or linear velocity) you want. The orbit itself is defined by a function of the gravitational force and the mass of the planet. Thus you two the relationship between the two and then you know what velocity an object at that position would need to be in orbit. If you want a specific velocity at a specific position then you'd need to two the mass. I never said it was probable, I said it was possible. P.S. What are you talking about with:
      If it's closer to the Sun, it will be too slow to maintain position, and will fall into a smaller, faster orbit. If it's further out than the Earth is, it will be going too fast to maintain its orbit based purely on gravity, and will rocket off into the deep dark.
      That makes no sense. Are you assuming the linear speed has to be the same for every orbit?
    6. Re:It's behind the sun by Malor · · Score: 1

      Whether or not you think it's handwaving, that's how orbital mechanics works. :) I'm no great shakes with it, I can't do the MATH or anything, but I do know, approximately, how orbits work.

      The closer an orbit is, the faster an object must travel to maintain position. This is measured in angular velocity. Linear velocity may or may not be faster (I honestly don't know the answer to this offhand), but angular velocity needs to be.

      Why? Because the closer you are to an object, the stronger the force of gravity is, and the faster you're accelerated toward that body. Orbiting, to steal a phrase from Douglas Adams, is plummeting headlong at the ground...and missing. A falling body, if it happens to move exactly far enough to one side to counteract the downward fall, ends up in a circular path around the larger object.

      So: the closer you are, the faster you are accelerated. The faster you fall, the faster you have to move sideways.

      This has all kinds of interesting side effects. For instance, if you are orbiting a body and you want to move closer to it, you need to slow down. You then fall more than you did before. The body accelerates you, and you gain angular velocity. You end up in a lower, faster orbit. (assuming you don't actually hit the body). To move into a higher orbit, you speed up... you move further out, and slow down. Yes, you slow down to speed up, and you speed up to slow down. Probably, this is explained by converting linear into angular velocity, but again, I'm not too up on the actual math.

      Two different orbits might be able to have the same linear velocity. It doesn't directly matter. For determining a stable orbit, only angular velocity counts.

      Ok, so looking again at the original problem. We have an object directly behind the sun from the point of view of the Earth; the Sun is directly between the two bodies. Both bodies are orbiting. There are three possibilities:

      A) The object is closer to the Sun than the Earth is. Because it is being accelerated more quickly, it must have more angular velocity to avoid being captured by the Sun. It cannot remain directly behind the Sun, and will eventually become visible.
      B) The object is further away from the Sun than the Earth is. To avoid flying off into the deep dark, it have less angular velocity than the Earth. It, too, cannot stay in place, and will become visible.
      C) The object is at exactly the same distance. This allows it to move at exactly the same speed the Earth moves; it can remain hidden as long as it can maintain that orbit. This is the ONLY scenario that will work, unless you assume a propulsion system of some type.

      If, after all this, you still don't believe me, go find an online orrery... a model of the Solar System. Just watch the orbits for about three minutes and you will be convinced. Mercury moves VERY FAST. (in terms of angular velocity). Venus moves faster than Earth. Mars moves slower than Earth. You can directly calculate the orbital time by the distance from the Sun, though I don't have the formula handy. The farther out it is, the slower the stable orbit is.

      It's entirely possible that all orbits of a given body have the same linear velocity, but I have no direct knowledge of that, and no way to easily prove it. In just thinking about it a minute or two... if that WAS true, it might apply only to perfectly circular orbits. Highly elliptical orbits are very fast at their near points and very slow at their far points. Perhaps the _average_ linear momentum is always the same?

      Hopefully, someone with the math will chime in. I know this isn't very hard, and I'm a bit ashamed that I don't remember it anymore.

  33. 'News' for nerds this aint by ShieldWolf · · Score: 1

    The 'Nemesis' theory is decades old, Isaac Asimov even wrote a book using this premise in the '80s!

    When you are scooped by a work of fiction that is over 16 years old, you either have some serious problems with you research dept. or it is a VERY slow news day.

    --
    just = (My)Opinion.toCents();
  34. Score! by NemesisStar · · Score: 3, Funny

    I knew that getting this username before anyone else would one day pay dividends! Username/name of star are inspired by the Isaac Asimov novel "Nemesis" by the way.

    1. Re:Score! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks! You are the first person I read to mention that! Good thing I read comments from bottom to up!

  35. Oh the Wheel in the Sky... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...keeps turning,I don't know where I'll be tomorrow....

  36. Uranus' orbit by aztektum · · Score: 1


    Uranus is so big it has its own orbit!
    </astronomy toilet humor>

    --
    :: aztek ::
    No sig for you!!
  37. Oh, come on. by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 2, Interesting

    100 comments about Nemesis AND Stars and no Resident Evil reference?

    "STAAAAAAARRRSS...."

  38. Lame, lame by hobuddy · · Score: 3, Funny

    If the Sun turns out to be binary, what the hell will the Gentoo guys do, CCFLAGS="-Odamnimcold -DALPHA_CENTAURI -funroll-solar-panels"?

    --
    Erlang.org: wow
  39. Maybe Asimov was a genuis after all! by projectVORTEX · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Funny how one of his last books ever written had to do with this very same possibility. Of course, if we later discover that Nemesis is, in fact, heading on a collision course for Earth, we'll have to hail the man as a prophet and then start evacuating as fast as we can. But seriously, I would imagine that this potential discovery could change the way we think about the formation and dynamics of our own solar system. The presence of an additional solar body (by solar I mean sun-like) could have serious and significant implications on both the gravitics of the solar system (and there are several Einsteinian experiments underway to prove or disprove Einstein's theories of gravity that could be scrapped as a result) and the formation of the planets in the solar system. I'd say, all in all, it's going to get to be very interesting very fsat...

  40. Obligitory... by Elitist_Phoenix · · Score: 1

    No, not while my greatest nemesis still provides our customers with free light, heat and energy. I call this enemy...the sun. Since the beginning of time man has yearned to destroy the sun. I will do the next best thing...block it out!

    --
    "I'm going to f***ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to f***ing kill Google"
  41. not just blamed...neatly explains mass extinctions by catmistake · · Score: 1

    I read about this theory a very long time ago. It was advanced around the time of the theory that a comet killed the dinosaurs. What is interesting, is that mass extinctions seem to occur once every 26 million years or so... and if they are caused by comets... what could cause a comet to hit the Earth at such a regular period? If there was an as of yet undetected massive body that had a regular period of 26 million years, and during its period it gravitationally pulled objects from the Kuiper Belt... the Oort Cloud... and sent them hurtling towards the sun... that would increase the remote chance that one would hit the Earth. It sounds very reasonable... that a dim brown dwarf star (or pin-black-hole) could exist... and be so close astronomically, yet so difficult to detect. Right now... we are between mass extinctions... I think another is expected in about 10-13 million years.

    A binary star system is FAR more common in our galaxy than a unary system... in fact... except for the Sol system, it is pretty much unheard of. It almost seems likely that we are in a binary system, and we just haven't realized it yet!

  42. MOD PARENT FUNNY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, guys. Sarcasm =].

  43. Re:Could someone explain what the hell this is abo by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1
    Is it a very dim star? I don't get it!

    The smallest visible stars are red dwarfs. There are also cooler brown dwarfs which are only visible in the IR band.

    Then you get into gas giant planets like Jupiter. There could be a small brown dwarf relatively close by, and it would only be visible in an IR telescope from outside the atmosphere.

  44. Re:Could someone explain what the hell this is abo by popsicle67 · · Score: 1

    There are parts of our own world that have not been explored yet. There are creatures being discovered every year. How long have we been searching the earth? The universe is much bigger. I stopped doubting anything when Bush was elected. If a turd can get elected anything is possible.

  45. Recursion by Lewis+Daggart · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In the Asmov Gold book, he actually talks about how the idea for the novel sprung from this theory. That's actually how the novel got its name, heh.

  46. Oh Derrrrrrrrr!!!!! by Whiteox · · Score: 1

    It's been known for 1000's of years (Egyptian) and confirmed in the modern day that our sun revolves around Sirius.
    The precis of this book is just one of hundreds that misinterpret anthropological data and folklore into some kind of modern cosmology.
    For instance, according to Gurdjieff, we have 2 moons orbiting the Earth. Have we found it yet? Was he talking of some kind of dark matter asteroid??? Who knows.
    The only thing that is certain is that NASA/ESA have not found it, yet many followers of Gurdjieff believe this as a fact.
    Also, just because it gets rave reviews in LA doesn't add credibility.

    --
    Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    1. Re:Oh Derrrrrrrrr!!!!! by matfud · · Score: 0

      There are at least two moons orbiting the earth.

      The second (about 5 miles in diameter) is called Cruithne.

      Antoher potential moon has also been found http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2251386.stm

    2. Re:Oh Derrrrrrrrr!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cruithne isn't technically a moon of earth as it doesn't orbit the earth. For potentially bollocks information.

    3. Re:Oh Derrrrrrrrr!!!!! by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the info. I appreciate it very much.
      Although from sources (vis wikipedia), I've found that Cruithne doesn't actually orbit the Earth, its presence may explain Gurdjieff's statements, if it is that object he was talking about.

      http://www.gurdjieff-bibliography.com/Current/17_m oore_%20revelation_28mar_2004-07-03.doc

      Thanks again.

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    4. Re:Oh Derrrrrrrrr!!!!! by matfud · · Score: 1

      Yeh, sorry about that. The quick search I did came back with some older articles prior to the discovery that it was orbiting the sun not the earth.

  47. Captain Jean-Luc Picard, USS Enterprise by tepples · · Score: 2, Funny

    You mean this Capt. Picard?

  48. "Lost Star of Myth and Time" by arbitraryaardvark · · Score: 1

    user #1: Nemesis sucks. They cut [clevernickname's]best scenes.
    user #2. Get the DVD!

  49. All I need to know is... by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

    All I need to know is whether or not it has the evil twin Goatee.

    1. Re:All I need to know is... by murderlegendre · · Score: 1

      No, that would be a black hole, not a star.

      Oh, goatee, my bad.

      --
      There's a Starman, waiting in the sky / He'd like to come and meet us, but he hasn't got the time.
  50. This theory is testable by HuguesT · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The linked article is not really about Nemesis, a distant companion to the Sun supposedly linked to regular massive exctinctions through its influence on the Oort cloud (where comets come from).

    It is, however, about an unseen Sun companion responsible for the precession of the equinox. The precession of the equinox is the observation that as the Earth orbits the Sun, after a full year around the Sun the Earth does not realign itself with the distant stars, there is a difference of about 50 arcseconds. This correspond to a period of about 24,000 years.

    Current theory for precession says the phenomenon is due to tidal effects due to the Moon acting on the non-perfectly-spherical Earth.

    TFA makes the simple point that this could be also more easily explained if the Sun was revolving around an heretofore unseen companion for the same period. This would also explain a number of other more complex phenomena, such as why this the precession rate seems to slowly, but undoubtedly change with time, why the angular momentum of the Sun appears to be so low compared to that of the planets, etc.

    TFA goes on to make prediction where this companion might be in the sky, and how far away it should be (between 0.01 and 0.03 of a LY), using nothing more complicated than basic Newtonian celestial mechanics.

    Well, time will tell, and I'm not an astronomer, but the theory is actually very simple and testable (in the mid to long run), so either evidence will mount in this direction or it will be disproved.

    For example we could measure precession rates on Mars. Since Mars has no large satellite, if it is found to have a precession rate similar to that of the Earth, then this will be very strong evidence that the tidal theory cannot be correct, and that the distant companion one is more likely to be. On the other hand if precession on Mars is very low, then this theory cannot be correct.

    In short I think the guy might be wrong but he is no crackpot.

  51. One real physicist is into this theory ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Prof. Muller from the UC Berkeley physics dept. is into this theory. He has a webpage devoted to it. Others in the dept. regard him as a bit of a crank for his interests, but he's not a total crackpot.

  52. Re:Could someone explain what the hell this is abo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In general, it's easier to see what's going on out in space than on Earth. Why? Because there's nothing in the way.

  53. Units by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many walks to the chemist is that?

  54. more than three objects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More than two would have been enough. Sorry to be a bit anal, because apart from that I agree.

    1. Re:more than three objects by MustardMan · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I should have said "three or more". I'm actually glad you pointed that out, because subtle errors in writing like that are important when writing a scientific paper where you want every word to be meaningful and accurate. It's always good to look back at what I've been writing and see places to improve.

  55. I disagree! by Phil+Urich · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I recall reading a book (which had been published sometime in the 80s, if I recall, but I've been beating myself up for 15 minutes over it yet can remember no title) written by a rather respected science writer (again, damn my memory!). The book was a rather higher-level book attempting to be a comprehensive study of dinosaurs and Paleontology. Much of the last little bit naturally dealt with the death of the Dinosaurs, and more strikingly the fact that every ~30 million years there's a major catastrophe on the Earth (many of which are quite big, many bigger than what killed the Dinosaurs--actually, funny anecdote, about the time I was reading this I was in summer camp, and one of the camp leaders was taking biology. He knew about the Permian extinction but insisted that it had, in fact, killed off ALL of the life on Earth, which had then started over again. He scoffed at my assertion that this was bullshit. It might have been then, at a rather tender age, that I realized that people could easily go to University and still persist in being really f-ing stupid. And ignorant. And arrogant. Indeed, it often can perpetuate it.)

    Anyways, the punchline of all this is missing. Why was it that approximately every 30 million years (not quite the number, IIRC it's a bit more exact, but I forget the specifics) there were recurring catastrophes? Talk about a science mystery worthy of Science Fiction! My own thoughts were along the lines of some kind of statistical quirk of the setup of Earth over millions of years (things get strange characteristics over such timespans, much the way that the dynamics of situations look fundamentally different if you're looking at things recorded reeeeaaalllyyyy sssslllloooowwwwwwwwwwwwly or, trading time for space, under a microscope). But the book referenced an apparently widely-known theory, though hotly contested, that the Sun had a twin star, probably a brown dwarf, which orbited somewhere outside of the Oort cloud. Perhaps some characteristic of its orbit meant that around every 30 million years (or whatever it was) it would swing close enough for awhile to start disturbing the Oort cloud. With so many possibly dangerous objects being flung around, the likelihood of a cometary impact on Earth suddenly becomes relatively quite alot higher (though probably still unlikely enough that it's far from a reliable impact, perhaps explaining the wiggle room in the exact time of the recurrance of mass extinction). There were other bits of random evidence both astronomy-related and geology-related, I don't quite recall them. But whether the theory is true or bunk, the idea of Nemesis (which is also how it was referred to in the book and in other related literature that I read up on at the time) is at least a significant step about the stereotypical internet-theory.

    One last sidenote, though it's somewhat OT: I had been thinking, back then, that if you do the rather simple math we're at least a handful of million years overdue for another mass extinction. Then I did a double take as I realized that we actually weren't! The way that these extinctions were measured, since the fossil record is far from play-by-play, is a sudden and drastic disappearence of biodiversity, with large numbers of species suddenly disappearing. And you know what? Not making any direct opinionated slant on this (though my stance is probably obvious), but humans have managed to wipe out enough in the way of species that we're already about on par with many of these rather significant (from a fossil-record viewpoint) extinctions. (Seen from a kind of statistical-determanistic point of view, then, we're just the inevitable comet-equivalent that would inevitably pop up sooner or later, give or take a handful of million years).

    Sorry for waxing so arguably OT, but the theory of Nemesis is such an interesting science bit, what with how it manages to draw threads in from so many interdisciplinary puzzles and findings. And in such a more reasonable and non-paranoid way than those aforementioned internet theories!

    --
    I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
    1. Re:I disagree! by MustardMan · · Score: 1

      The "every 30 millions years" thing is not fully accepted yet - so to try to base a physics theory on it is completely asinine. That's like modifying quantum mechanics to explain the presense of bigfoot.

    2. Re:I disagree! by JahToasted · · Score: 1

      Bigfoot ate the cat in the box! It all makes sense now...

  56. THIS IS NOT NEW!!!!!! by Markvs · · Score: 1

    As an undergrad at UCONN (University of Connecticut) I read a book called "Nemesis" back in 1992! And it was old then! (In fact, the book had only been taken out of the library twice in 10 years...)

    --
    46. The Hobo smiles, his eyes glaze over, and he burps. "Beware the man who has lived longer than the Wasteland."
  57. "Science" on the internet by plnrtrvlr · · Score: 1

    Here's the thing: scientific hypothesis and theory used to be peer reviewed and tested in ways that weeded out the wild ideas that were incorrect (usually) before the public ever caught wind of them. It ISN'T that "real scientists" don't have wild ideas and flights of fancy. Most of the large "earth shattering" ideas over the centuries were just that in their day: wild weird ideas that had large segments of the scientific community thinking "who is this crackpot" for a while. The issue now is that anyone with a flight of fancy that may or may not be right can publish his (her) idea on the internet in a way that makes it appear to be a given that "this is so."

    Most probably he has had this flight of fancy a while, and "something herding kuiper belt objects" was all he needed to make his leap to "see, I told you so" when it's probably nothing more than a Earth-Neptune sized snowball riding herd on the edge. In another age, he'd of either been so far from acedemia that no one except his neoighbors and the cows would have ever heard his idea, or else the professors around him would have said "you're saying WHAT with the little bit of data we have?"

    An aside: I enjoy reading the comments from psuedo-science articles on /. It makes us think, brings out some good wit and sarcasm, exposes me to other peoples "wild ideas." (And makes me glad I'm not the only person having stupid flights of fancy, they just aren't on my web page!) However, having a "Horoscope section" (as another poster suggested) for this sort of stuff would only generate long threads of "why is/isn't this in the horoscope section" Let them go ahead and present new ideas as science and we'll give them a thrashing. Even mainstream scientific ideas deserve a good thrashing: the entire concept of dark matter is still full of wild assed guesses, trying to fit the data to a hypothesis is like this. Thrash it good, the chaff will fall out and then we'll have a better idea of what we're supposed to be looking for.

    1. Re:"Science" on the internet by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Actually the article is much better than what you describe. A first year university science undergrad can understand the idea, it explains old observations in a new light and it is testable.

      Nothing like dark matter at all.

  58. New Companion by cyp43r · · Score: 1

    If the sun really does have a companion, then because it is so much closer than any other star (I assume), wouldn't we see a very fast star movement somewhere? And if it does have a companion, one would logically assume that it would be the closest star.

    1. Re:New Companion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a binary frame, the companion would be moving at a relatively rapid rate relative to other stars (depending on the orbit periodicity) but not relative to the Sun - and therefore earth coordinates (because companions orbit the same common center of mass). This is one of BRI's points: the observable of precession is due to the motion of the solar system within the binary frame making it appear that the earth wobbles when in reality the movement of the stars across the heavens is actually due to the solar system's changing orientation to inertial space. One precession cycle in the binary theory therefore is not one complete wobble of the earth but rather one binary orbit that takes us back to the starting point when measured against the distant quasars, zodiac or whatever fixed markers (outside the frame) you want to use.

  59. Re:Could someone explain what the hell this is abo by Floody · · Score: 1
    There are parts of our own world that have not been explored yet. There are creatures being discovered every year. How long have we been searching the earth? The universe is much bigger. I stopped doubting anything when Bush was elected. If a turd can get elected anything is possible.


    Oh yeah? Go ahead and show me entropy decreasing in a closed system then, please.
  60. Not rare by matt+me · · Score: 1

    Quick facts: most systems are binary. Triple systems are also possible (see Tatooine) and quadruple ones made from two pairs have been found. A week ago Hubble found that the north star, is in fact three stars - grid, magnetic and polar anyone?

  61. Re:01000010011010010110111001100001011100100111100 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    To convert message: http://www.theskull.com/javascript/ascii-binary.ht ml

    Don't be afraid of the skull - link is safe

  62. Re:01000010011010010110111001100001011100100111100 by boarder8925 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I prefer Adcott's Binary Translator, mainly because I can remember the URL. ;)

  63. If you want to read it.. by Peter+Cooper · · Score: 1

    What's a better way of doing this in Ruby? My solution looks a bit long winded.

    "0101001101101000011011110110111101110100001000010 0 100000010101110110010100100000 01101100011010010111011001100101001000000110100101 101110001000000110000100100000 01100010011010010110111001100001011100100111100100 100000011100110111100101110011 01110100011001010110110100111111".gsub(/\s/, '').scan(/......../).each{ |c| t=0; p=7; s=''; c.each_byte{|d| t += 2 ** p if d == 49; p -= 1; }; print t.chr }

    1. Re:If you want to read it.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The best way is obviouly in Python :
      (First, remove slashdot spaces in the string)
      S="01010011011010000110111101101111011101000010000 10010000001010111011001010010000001101100011010010 111011001100101001000000110100101 10111000100000011000010010000001100010011010010110 11100110000101110010011110010010000001110011011110 010111001101110100011001010110110100111111"
      while len(S) != 0:
          print chr(int(S[:8],2)),
          S = S[8:]
    2. Re:If you want to read it.. by nko321 · · Score: 1

      I think it'd look a bit clearer if it was broken up in to lines :-)

    3. Re:If you want to read it.. by Santana · · Score: 1

      msg.scan(/.{8}/).each {|e| print e.to_i(2).chr}

      puts msg.scan(/.{8}/).collect {|e| e.to_i(2).chr}.join

      --
      The best way to predict the future is to invent it
    4. Re:If you want to read it.. by Peter+Cooper · · Score: 1

      Nice! Serves me right for using the Ruby 1.6 docs.

      As an aside, are there proper references for Ruby 1.8 online? I have the Pickaxe book, but I'd much rather have something online and searchable..

    5. Re:If you want to read it.. by Santana · · Score: 1

      Try Ruby-Doc. Here is the core, and the standard library. Or use ri at the command line.

      --
      The best way to predict the future is to invent it
  64. Re:01000010011010010110111001100001011100100111100 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Web site converters are for pussies. Here's a python version. Replace the underscores with space; slashcode doesn't handle ecode properly. Run it and just paste the binary goop at it.
    #!/usr/bin/env python
    import sys

    x=''.join(sys.stdin.read().split())
    for i in range(0, len(x), 8):
    _t = 0
    _for c in x[i:i+8]:
    __t <<= 1
    __t += int(c)
    _sys.stdout.write(chr(t))

    print
    Or if you prefer, here's a C version. It's actually more robust, since it skips characters that aren't 0 or 1:
    #include <stdio.h>
    main()
    {
    int c, ch = 0, i = 0;
    while ((c = getchar()) != EOF) {
    if (c != '0' && c != '1') continue;
    ch = (ch<<1) | (c == '1');
    if (++i == 8) {
    fputc(ch, stdout);
    ch = i = 0;
    }
    }
    putchar('\n');
    }
  65. Re:Could someone explain what the hell this is abo by popsicle67 · · Score: 1

    Because we still haven't figured out that all of our understanding of the universe is fettered by our unwillingness to admit that we don't know how to understand the universe we sometimes confuse observation with truth. We haven't yet recorded an instance such as you suggest, but we also do not know if we can. Is the speed of light a truth? Or is it merely a flawed observation on our part.

  66. This is OLD news by SB7980 · · Score: 1

    I must say this is old news. This has already been revealed in the Quran 1400 years ago: Glory be to Him Who created in pairs *all* *things*, of what the earth produces, of themselves, and of which they have no knowledge. [Quran 36:36]

  67. Re:01000010011010010110111001100001011100100111100 by NitsujTPU · · Score: 0, Redundant

    01000001 01100011 01110100 01110101 01100001 01101100 01101100 01111001 00101100 00100000 01001001 00100111 01101101 00100000 01110010 01100001 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000 01100001 01101101 01100001 01111010 01100101 01100100 00101110 00100000 00100000 01001001 00100000 01101000 01100001 01100100 00100000 01100001 00100000 01110010 01100001 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000 01101100 01101111 01110111 00100000 01101111 01110000 01101001 01101110 01101001 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01010011 01101100 01100001 01110011 01101000 01100100 01101111 01110100 00100000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 01100101 01110010 01110011 01101000 01101001 01110000 00100000 01110101 01101110 01110100 01101001 01101100 00100000 01001001 00100000 01110011 01100001 01110111 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101101 01101101 01100101 01101110 01110100 00100000 01100111 01101111 01110100 00100000 01101101 01101111 01100100 01100100 01100101 01100100 00100000 01110101 01110000 00100001 00100000 00100000 01001110 01101111 01110111 00101100 00100000 01001101 01111001 00100000 01110110 01101001 01100101 01110111 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110011 00100000 01100011 01101000 01100001 01101110 01100111 01100101 01100100 00101110 00101110 00101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01110011 01100101 01100101 01101101 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01100010 01100101 00100000 01101001 01101110 01110100 01100101 01101100 01101100 01101001 01100111 01100101 01101110 01110100 00100000 01101100 01101001 01100110 01100101 00100000 01101111 01101110 00100000 01010011 01101100 01100001 01110011 01101000 01100100 01101111 01110100 00100001 00001010 00001010 01010100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101100 01101001 01101011 01100101 00100000 01010011 01000101 01010100 01001001 01000000 01001000 01101111 01101101 01100101 00100001

  68. Nemesis The Dark Star. by NtlgnceatWork · · Score: 1

    I don't know if this is the "dark star" that was reffered to in the news a few years ago. But it shattered my concept of reality. The thought of a Star that makes darkness! More powerfull then light when it comes to objects, the darkness will go straight through it. Its whats makes things dark in the middle. Yet light would always seem to overpower it.. And one question I would have if this kind of Dark Star actually exsists, Is What would it be if there was no light or dark?

  69. Re:01000010011010010110111001100001011100100111100 by after+fallout · · Score: 1
    Here is a C++ version:
    #include <iostream>
    #include <string>
     
    using namespace std;
     
    void main() {
      string bin = "0100100100100000011101000110100001101001011011100 1 10101100100000011000100111100100100000001001110110 01100111010101101110011011100111100100101100001001 11001000000111010001101000011001010010000001101101 01101111011001000111001100100000011011010110010101 10000101101110011101000010000000100111011000010110 11100110111001101111011110010110100101101110011001 110010111000100111";
    // getline(cin,bin); //uncomment this to get binary from stdin
      unsigned char c=0, i=0;
      for(int p=0; p<bin.size();++p) {
        switch(bin[p]) {
        case '0':
          c = c<<1;
          i++;
          break;
        case '1':
          c = (c<<1) + 1;
          i++;
        }
        if(i==8) {
          cout<<c;
          c=i=0;
        }
      }
      getline(cin,bin);
    }
  70. PHP Version by JabberWokky · · Score: 1

    $str='010100110110100001101111011011110111 010000100001001000000101011101100101001000 000110110001101001011101100110010100100000 011010010110111000100000011000010010000001 100010011010010110111001100001011100100111 100100100000011100110111100101110011011101 00011001010110110100111111'; $str=ereg_replace('[^01]','',$str); do echo chr(intval(substr($str,0,8),2)); while($str=substr($str,8));

    --
    "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
  71. Center of gravity by Doc+Ri · · Score: 1

    Hmm. The mass of the sun is about 10^3 the mass of Jupiter. The distance of Jupiter from the sun is about 5.2 AU (1 AU = 1.5x10^8 km). Given these numbers I did a quick calculation of the distance of the center of gravitiy of sun/Jupiter system from the center of the sun: about 7.8x10^5 km. The sun's radius is about 7x10^5 km. So even if we consider only Jupiter (which makes up for 70% of the planetary mass), the center of gravitiy is outside the sun. Where it actually is certainly depends of the distribution of the remaining 30% of planetary mass. But much of that is located beyond Jupiter orbit. My bet is the center of gravitiy is slightly outside the sun all the time, just as the parent said. So be careful with your guarantee!

    --
    617B3B7F7E7C7D7F00EOF
  72. Might be long gone. by Civil_Disobedient · · Score: 1

    The problem is that any evidence of an interstellar impact will be long gone by now. The Permian Event took place around the time of Pangea , for chrissake... continents could have shifted over, around and through any impact crators by now.

    Heck, you could posit that the bulge of tectonic activity around the Himalaya is a result of uneven plate shifting due to a large, say, crator. Point is, all the pre-Pangean crust has long been subducted into the Earth, so this doesn't necessarily eliminate the possibility of a cyclical catastrophic interstellar event.

    To be on the safe side, let's just assume this planet is toast and start planning to look for new digs.

  73. Re:Could someone explain what the hell this is abo by Floody · · Score: 1
    Because we still haven't figured out that all of our understanding of the universe is fettered by our unwillingness to admit that we don't know how to understand the universe we sometimes confuse observation with truth. We haven't yet recorded an instance such as you suggest, but we also do not know if we can. Is the speed of light a truth? Or is it merely a flawed observation on our part.


    I'm not sure if you're making a philosophical argument or not. If so, its first year philosophy: See Descartes, he already went ahead and worked out the various permutations of "how can I believe anything I experience?" for you.

    On the other hand, if you're suggesting a true scientific observation and causality model, its quite deeply flawed.

    ... "we sometimes confuse observation with truth."
    I'm sorry, come again? Observation is truth, in the most direct sense. I think you're too freely intermixing prediction, observation and conclusion. Clearly, by its very nature, prediction is unsettled and unknown. Conclusion may be, and often is, partially or completely incorrect. Observation is the gold standard, its the one thing that can be counted on; the problem is that in many cases its not possible to make direct observations and indirect observation may have as-yet-unknown causality factors. If anything, the underlying challange to "understanding the universe" is an inability to directly observe detail.

    But getting back to my original point (anything possible blab blah, show me entropy decrease in a closed system), you cannot so easily utter "we don't know the truth", wave your magic wand and make it disappear. This is not theory, this is law. We don't even need a closed system really, just take any system whose energy output is equal to or greater than any energy input and demonstrate a system-wide decrease in entropy. Hint: You can't without magic. If you could that would mean that we do not live in a consistent universe, that any perceived rules are subject to change at the drop of a hat and that the paranormal offers the only explanation for causality.
  74. Re:01000010011010010110111001100001011100100111100 by Krach42 · · Score: 1

    stdin:6: error: '::main' must return 'int'

    God, I'm sick of all these people thinking that main can just be a void. That's not the way the world works, and you're wrong... god damn stupid star theory is probably bringing that up...

    --

    I am unamerican, and proud of it!
  75. Re:01000010011010010110111001100001011100100111100 by SamSim · · Score: 1

    I think we've found our Sun's binary companion already! Good going, Slashdot.

  76. Re:Could someone explain what the hell this is abo by JourneyExpertApe · · Score: 1

    Oh yeah? Go ahead and show me entropy decreasing in a closed system then, please.

    Actually, "closed system" properly refers to a system which does not exchange matter but can exchange energy. So, a simple example is to place a sealed jar of water in the refrigerator. It's entropy decreases, but it doesn't exchange any matter. Now, decreasing entropy in a closed, adiabatic system (aka, an isolated sytem) would be hard to find.

    --
    If you can read this sig, you're too close.
  77. I have but just one word for you binary stars... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    RAEL.

  78. Re:regarding The Dark Star. by vortexau · · Score: 1

    I seem to feel a song coming on:

      CHORUS:
    "Benson, Arizona, the warm wind through your hair
    My body flies the galaxies, my heart longs to be there
    Benson, Arizona, the same stars in the sky
    But they seemed so much kinder when we watched them, you and I"
    .

    --
    (David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"