why would nintendo go ahead with a strap that is noticably thinner than any other product? why would you make a strap for an object that you expect people to swing around thinner than the strap that you dangle your digital camera on?
ahem* people get excited when they get frustrated too.
anyways, nintendo has always had a reputation for creating very durable consoles and peripherals. why do you think they make them durable? because their focus demographic of young people and teens are very hard on thier consoles.
why was the strap attached in the first place? you dont have wrist straps on regular controllers [wireless or not], you dont have straps on your tv remote controls.... why not? because under normal circumstances you dont have the move or make motions that allow them to fly from your hands. the wii was designed with this sole purpose in mind. the wrist straps to my camera, psp, cellphone... they are all much more sturdy than the wii strap. certainly none of those are actually intended to be swung around.
personally, nintendo made a bad decision. they need to fully acknowledge it without spin, and then we can move on. of all the possible problems with the wii, i think a cheap strap is the least of my worries. now how about that lack of online multiplayer? =)
why dont we hold off on saying how the ps3 underdelivered for now? its been out less than a month. if you showed me the games available at ps2 launch, i would never believe that the same box would eventually deliver games like god of war or burnout or metal gear.
honestly, looking back at the xbo360 i was disappointed when i saw it for the first time, but a year into development and gems like gears of war are coming out.
you can run windows98 on a 9ghz machine, but it will still be crappy windows 98. that doesnt mean the machine is subpar. lets get launch software bad taste out of our mouths first before we start complaining.
- the interface has always stayed consistent within regions. software developers have changed its usage. for example, games designed by hideo kojima consistently keep the X as the back button [as it is traditionally used in japan] during localization.
- slow loading? again, the developers. some titles have taken on the loading beast and bested it. not particularly a playstation problem. the machine was designed in 2000, technology has come along way since. if anything i am amazed when i find some of the more complex games require very little to no loading times.
- low number of controller ports? is this/really/ a gripe?
- no off button? i never use the physical off button i have an older model ps2, but okay that one is a weird decision.
- RGB dvd playback, scart -> 16:9? okay, those are oddities too.
- region lock? almost every DVD device is region locked as default. the dvd playing functionality of the ps2 was always just a cool added bonus to me. i never expected it to deliver every functionality of a high end oppo box.
- requires a network disc? maybe its your region, but they include the network discs with the console and adapters now. worst case scenario you can always borrow one from a friend/ game store.
i have never had any problem with any of my playstation consoles. they all work swimmingly. if you have such issue with the ps2 design, why own one? guess its just the console everyone loves to hate these days, huh?
youre right in that HDTV adoption has taken years to reach this point. however, since the release of this new generation of video games, HDTV sales have skyrocketed. now is the first time crappy HDTVs have been available below the magical $500US mark. the magical line that heralds widespread consumer adoption. the future is now.
within the next year or two, game consoles alone are going to drive HDTV sales more. there will be [guesstimating here] probably 40 million next generation consoles sold in the next year, even if only half of those owners have hdtvs, youre still looking at ~20 million hdtv owners.
video games are that magical content everyone has been waiting for, just as trueHD blu-ray/hddvd movies are. digital cable wasnt and still really isnt a catalyst because of the anemic amount of hd content. as of today, the xbox360 can kinda sorta upscale to 1080p [only via vga if your TV accepts vga, and the content isnt 1080p native so there will obviously be issues], about half of the launch ps3 games support 1080p resolutions. as developers gain more confidence in the ps3 and learn its secrets, do you think the number of titles supporting 1080p will decrease? will the library of bluray/HDDVD titles decrease? of course not. 1080p will eventually be the de facto standard at least for a foreseeable while; its the resolution most new content is being released.
if you want proof that video game sales are driving hdtv sales, take a look at how many 1080p sets are available. just over a year ago there were only two on the market. hd-dvd movies and players only supported up to 720p/1080i movies. the xbox360 folks claimed that "1080p games were impossible". last week i went to best buy and 30-40% of the tvs on display were 1080p. why the 1080p explosion? every store i visit, at least two hdtv showroom displays have a console connected. a year ago, there were no game consoles in/any/ showroom.
lets not forget that the xbox has done the same. it barely had only 4 years under its belt before it was ditched in its entirety in favor of the xbox360. also, of note... there are a few key people that are former sega people now under the MS banner. lets not forget the intense modularization of the xbox360 seems very much like the genesis era[segaCD, 32x, nomad, saturn, etc...]. theres a baseline and a premium version of everything [tiered online services, actual units, wireless, hardrives, hddvd, controllers, wireless... hell, arent there even two separate versions of the remote control for the thing?] whether it cripples it, or enables consumers to build on over time remains to be seen.
i for one am not too happy with MS for ditching the xbox when it still had plenty of life in it. im sure im not the only one that would have bought games for it over the next two years or so if they kept releasing any.
the ps3 does do video 1080p out. there are some issues with upscaling non-blu-ray content and with downscaling to the proper ratios; something VERY easily done with a firmware update. the article says that the ps3 does not do 1080p24, only 1080p60/30. it has already been officially announced that the very next firmware update will include 1080p24 playback. this becomes even more of a non point when you take into consideration for how few hdtvs are on the market that support 1080p24 today.
also, the article makes it seem like the audio setup on ps3 is difficult. not so. you have the 3 step option to send audio out via hdmi, multiout and optical [complete with pictures of the cables]. he makes it seem as though you are required to purchase a proprietary multi-out cable for optical audio if your reciever doesn't accept hdmi.
given how fast blu-ray decodes hd signals, its not a question whether the cell can handle the load. the cell is capable of decoding multiple hd signals simultaneously [they have already demonstrated this ability]; decoding just one and upscaling/ downscaling it is a non issue, and stupid of sony not to have ready from day one. hence peoples' hate. however, thinking that this will not be fixed is foolish. these days, everything is fixed/ patched post release. i can update the firmware on almost every piece of electronics i own, from my dvd player to even my tv now.
if you need an example of the power behind the cell's hd decoding ability, try this example. get a ps3 and a blu-ray movie. set the movie to fast forward [1.5x] watch how quickly it decodes and handles the frames smoothly.
nintendo's remote can do both because they also have a sensor bar to gather directional information from. also, given that the remote is apt to losing focus every so often, perhaps that is a by product of the rumble tech? who knows?
personally, i would rather not have rumble than deal with the sensor bar and calibration issues for each game. that said, in a perfect world i would want both.
if immersion has such superb motion/ rumble technology, i am most certain that they will release their own version of the controller and everyone will buy that. in the meantime, we can only hope that developers do not remove feedback code from their PS3 games.
"Vast warehousing is so 1980s! (and a sign of inneficient manufacturing)." - THANK YOU!!!!! someone "gets" it!
i am a little late replying to this thread [they can have minds of their own over time], but thanks for doing a better job of explaining how manufacturing truly works these days.
alot of people still think that manufacturing is still done the conveyor belt and warehouse method. nowadays when product runs go well into the millions for a product; each consisting of hundreds of delicate components and elaborate packing, that method just isnt as feasible anymore.
my ex is a senior financial analyst of manufacturing at a pretty large multinational corp, so i have a basic grasp on the true mechanics, but thanks for helping shed some light this.
1. The odds are high that there is a great amount of crossover. I agree However even with the crossover, a large amount are still on dialup. The large part of the country lives in areas where they cant even anything more than dialup. Lil Jimmy being able download a 16MB copy of waverace64 on 33.6-56k, just isn't gonna cut it.
2. That was last generation. The Nintendo name going along with gaming is over ten years old. In 1992, parents were calling games 'nintendo', not 'atari' still. Parents listen to the names their kids call things, and to what they see in the media. The actual playstation name carries alot more name recognition now. The name Sony Playstation has been all over the media for the last ten or so years, because each console is called in varying degrees, 'a sony playstation'. Nintendo's media blitz has been greatly overshadowed by Sony and even Microsoft. The 'Nintendo' name has more or less been replaced by the product name; the media refers to things by: 'gameboy advance', 'gamecube', 'wii'. In a parents mind they dont necessarily make the direct connection b/w these products and Nintendo. The 'Nintendo DS' and the 'gameboy' are exclusions.
3. Brands/do/ carry from one generation to the next so long as there is a clear association. going by the market names for consoles: xbox -> xbox360. sony playstation -> playstation2 -> playstation portable -> playstation3. nintendo gameboy -> gameboy advance. nintendo -> super nintendo -> nintendo64 -/-> gamecube -/-> wii. However, also note: nintendo -> super nintendo -> nintendo64 -> nintendo DS.
Brand recognition may not seem like a big deal to you, but there is a reason why EVERY manufacturer brings in marketing corporations to assist with new products. No, it's not the only deciding factor, but it does play a significant helping factor in public recognition and acceptance.
4. No, the backcatalog doesn't necessarily sell a system. However it is always a nice incentive. Playstation owners would be up in arms if they decided to drop BC for PS3. No one ever complained about having BC across gameboy and ds platforms. However, all you have to do is peek into any xbox forum and you will find dozens of threads over BC issues and complaints. Each time you irritate a customer, you risk losing him; just ask any ps2/ xbox360 convert.
Most early adopters of new consoles sell their previous generation system in order to make space/ earn credit towards the new expensive system.
5. Each company is making mistakes and missteps, but I will admit that Sony is making mistakes IMHO. That cant be helped, what I think their biggest sin thusfar is that they are not running damage control. Blu-ray is untested and immature, i agree. In as far as blu-ray being an expensive proprietary medium, blu-ray is thusfar a cheaper and more superior medium compared to HD-DVD. Look at the actual prices, they are cheaper or equivalent in price at worst. Blu-ray is not proprietary, second of all. Its actually less proprietary than DVD in/some/ ways.
6. Sony is not losing developers left and right. There have been less than five total cancellations of games out of ~200 announced titles. ~2% does not spell gloom and doom. Games have always been cancelled, it's not new news. The three developers that have decided to not publish for PS3, issued statements that they would not publish/ announce anything during the launch period. They are playing it safe, saying they will reevaluate based on consumerbase in '07.
What series are migrating? GTA? The GTA series has always been multiplatform. The fact that it is being simultaneously released at the same time isn't as major as say, if Sony had to wait out a 6 month exclusivity window. The recent soccer game announcements have been debunked. Pro Evo will be released for PS3 in spring [when it's done], and FIFA is aiming to be released before then. Which formerly exclusive games are migrating to xbox360? Final Fantasy? Devil
They two handhelds did go head to head. Nintendo released first and started with a 4 million unit lead. Why is that? Is it because the DS had an excellent selection of launch games? A port of super mario64 was the best selling DS game for a while, so that's debatable.
People bought the initial DS because it was a Nintendo handheld. They didn't have the library at the time, but the GBA backcatalog certainly filled that role well. Before the PSP launch, the only way to play mainstream handheld games was through a GBA. The DS didn't carry the "gameboy" name, but it certainly benefited from the "gameboy" backcatalog and the strength of the gameboy pedigree.
The PSP entered the market with absolutely no backcatalog, no prior experience, and only the strength of the Playstation name. It obviously garnered the initial "wow" factor, but the press has since turned its parent company Sony into an object of hate. This translates into people beginning to hate the PSP, as it was one of their products. In light of all the naysayers and all the negativity there are simple facts that can't be denied.
1. Since its launch the PSP has teetered between #1 and #2 in sales in every territory; beating out the xbox360 and even the PS2. Dead consoles don't beat out the PS2.
1a. The PSP is selling better than the PS1 and PS2 did. Look at where those two consoles are now.
2. Sale numbers vs. Shipping numbers. Every PSP that leaves the sony factory for retail/is/ sold. Sony sold it to retail; other than warranty issues, Sony has already made their money by this point and will likely never see that product again.
2a. How retail works. Retailers monitor sales of the products on their shelves. If a product is running low, you restock and order more from the manufacturer. If a product is not selling well, you simple order less or order none at all from the manufacturer. If Sony has consistent shipping requests, that has to correspond to stores trying to meet public demand.
3. Until the release of the DS lite, from the numbers Sony had ~46-52% of the handheld marketshare. I haven't seen US numbers following the release of the DSlite. So even assuming stellar sales, they are not trailing behind as bad as blogs and forums would have you believe.
Okay, so back on topic: the PS3 vs Wii. The handheld arena is much more different from the console arena. Consoles are generally more expensive and the target demographics are slightly older. Here, Sony has the larger backcatalog in terms of games available on the market. What I mean is that you can walk into thousands of game/ pawn/ stores and find bargain bin PS1 and PS2 titles. The Gamecube is the only generation that has media the Wii can read, and Nintendo Virtual Console games are only available for download online. With only ~60% of U.S. homes with internet service, many Wii users will never see the VC benefit; just as many Xbox1 users never saw the benefit of xboxlive.
The playstation name is now as synonymous with video gaming, as Nintendo's name once was. Never giving their consoles a moniker outside of playstation has been a smart move for Sony. Brand recognition for a Playstation3 is alot higher than Wii. With a two part name most just drop the implied Nintendo from the title, like we have done with the Gamecube. For non-gamers, they wouldn't automatically associate the Wii with Nintendo.
These seems like stupid minor marketing points and details, but they matter alot particularly during the xmas season. I predict that the Wii will sell well mainly due to price contrast. However, like the DS vs PSP don't expect Sony to fall totally out of place. There is alot of collective hate for Sony, but that's only here on the internet. Only ~60% of American households even have internet access to hear these kinds of rumors. Out of that percentage, it's not like 100% of those people actually care, or will let it affect their purchase. Price will be a bigger factor than Sony's corporate reputation.
manufacturing usually doesnt start a full year ahead of time or anything. the wii is rumored to have/just/ started production themselves; their launch is supposedly sometime in october. launch units arent created that much further ahead of time as you think. xbox360 production started only ~70 days before the launch. barring component shortages, sony is sticking to standard industry launch plans and may just make their shipping goal. nintendo and sony have console launch experience; no big deal. unlike microsoft who is relatively new to the game, when it comes to mass manufacturing of consumer electronics, sony knows what they are doing.
maybe not, but what is there in dead rising that would prevent it from being ported down to the xbox? the only limiting factor is the amount of onscreen activity. the graphics can be dulled down a bit, and the game would have been the exact same.
what the OP was trying to say is that at least with the ps3 and wii you have the option to have a somewhat unique experience. there is some form of upward progression that is different from just spec increments.
MS has so far done a decent job of convincing the internet world that the xbox360 is relevent, but the real world isnt buying. the US is not respresentative of the world. even the psp, a console that the internet would have you believe is 'dying', sells better than the xbox360 worldwide. it can't match the sales of a handheld console thats older and theoretically should be having its sales trail off slightly by now? psp sales are still brisk, but xbox360 sales are the ones that are trailing off. i dont think that sony is losing too much sleep over the xbox360 anymore.
outside of the new zelda game, what other titles would you consider to be quality launch games for the wii? i see a bunch of interesting games and nintendo has a decent track record, but until you actually play through it is hard to automatically assume which games are quality.
the same argument that most people have here against sony titles also hold true for the others. question everything, not just sony.
"Is it just me or does anyone else want the days to be like the old Nintendo/Sega rivalry where most games came out for both systems where the only real differences were the controller shape, button layout, and the small number of proprietary games (ie - Nintendo's Mario and Sega's Sonic)"
excuse me, but i don't remember those days. i've owned a master system, NES, genesis and SNES. i don't remember many identical releases back in those days. what are you talking about?
during the 8 bit era, nintendo forbade third party publishers from publishing software for rival consoles. i dont remember many [if any] 8-bit cross platform games at all... in the 16bit era, things lightened up [mainly due to litigation against nintendo; they were evil too, once...]. but even then cross platform games were drastically different. shadowrun for the genesis was completely different from shadowrun on the SNES. Street fighter 2 played completely different across systems. jurassic park, xmen, mortal kombat1, mortal kombat2, Y's, castlevania... all these games played completely different across systems. often times they weren't even made by the same developer, and weren't considered the same game.
large movie/ media tie-ins like aladdin and earthworm jim and arcade favorites like NBA jam were the only titles that played similarly, but those games were in the minority.
if anything, you undermine your point because these last two generations have seen MUCH more cross platform gaming from third party companies than have ever existed. mainly due to sony's emancipation of third party companies from nintendo's iron grip licensing. now games are relatively the same between consoles, plus or minus a few graphical effects.
i would say that the rivalry would be a much more geniune one if each console had more exclusive titles. what will definitely hurt console gaming in the long run is/lack/ of exclusivity. this is where the console manufacturers need to step up to the plate and give developers a reason to choose their respective platform only. are three companies are doing it in their own ways.
gamers need "true" exclusives, not "well, it wont come out on another console for another 3 months... we promise!". while good for the publisher who gets to maximize profit off of a single IP, this disillusions the consumer and erodes brand loyalty. console choice(s) should be about which console provides the best gaming experience, not a) i like this companies first party titles, everything else will be ported to the console anyways. or b) this one has slightly better graphics/ online, etc... c) well i cant afford anything but this one.
a) first party titles are now the only reason to choose a console. its the last bastion of true exclusivity. think halo, mario, zelda games b) graphics as a selling point doesnt mean much when you have exclusivity for consoles. each console with have its shiners. c) game consoles should inspire consumers to want to own all three. too many people feel that as long as they get the first party titles they want, third party titles will eventuall get ported.
Okay, so... lets assume the "console war" was over and the solution was to bring the best of all worlds to the console gamer. all three major companies joined forces and will release software on some form of omni-box.
the omni-box will play xbox360 games and hddvds natively, use the wii controller and games, and the entire sony backcatalog. every good idea ever presented by the big three [and sega] will be playable in some form on the omni-box. when resident evil 7 comes out on omni-box what will happen? the only publisher making money will be capcom. but even they wont get anything out of the deal from you, since you and many others like you prefer to play on the PC no matter how great and promising a console or console title will be.
honestly, not to flame you; this is a serious question: would it matter to you if the console died altogether? last i heard, PC gaming was in decline. is it truly in decline, or is pc gamer migration responsible for the rise in console gamers over the past two generations?
this is the most insightful and underrated comment i've read in over a month.
microsoft is going somewhere with thier big xbox/xna/liveanywhere/mediacenter/vista push. [notice how they all tie in together?] they arent going to be satisfied with just making a few games here and there. they have their eyes on the prize. MS has some huge orwellian plans for the future, and it can afford and justify losing billions in chasing those dreams.
sony is king of screwups, i admit that much. however meeting their goal of creating 2 million units by the end of the year will/still/ make for a shortage some how some way. 2 million consoles in four months isnt/that/ outrageous of a goal to meet IMHO.
given that sony has been manufacturing consumer electronics for decades and have seen their fair share of shortages, i dont think that their plan itself is the cause for any shortage. they know what they are capable of, if everything works according to plan. component shortages, unseen defect problems, floods, earthquakes, and various acts of god of war(TM) not withstanding.
feel free to continue to discuss various conspiracy theories whilst i fasten my tinfoil hat.
lol @ OP. cant blame sony; it worked for the DS, right?
on topic: manufacturing of the ps3 hasnt started yet. they have the component manufacturers completing and stockpiling components for the time being.
it doesnt make sense to have millions of completed ps3s sitting in a warehouse waiting to be stolen. besides, sony doesnt have to worry about paying to store the ps3s until they are completed. right now its each component manufacturers responsibility to store the components. its a standard manufacturing procedure to wait until the absolute latest minute before shipping to actually assemble the fully completed product.
the site actually says that there will be no Mac version of XNA, so in a way this pushes Mac xbox360 wouldbe programmers to thier OS. so in an inadvertent way, they are.
Good post but I disagree with the idea that America's Army does help recruitment. The fact that the game is played by Non-US citizens, and people whom are not military candidates still works in the US Army's favor. I always saw the game as a genius bit of marketing. Of course you appeal to those that are intrigued with the military and wish to join. However, all those that appreciate the game also develop understanding and respect for America's armed forces. Given our tarnished reputation as of late, I find that the game is a great promotional item, that unlike others, actually pays for itself.
Also interesting in regards to the topic, i pulled this choice quote from the website for the game. This is the army's stance on the subject
Q: At one stage of the game, players are instructed on the fundamentals of basic rifle marksmanship. Does this teach young adults how to shoot a weapon?
A:...there is no way that manipulating a keyboard and mouse, as players do in the Army's game, can provide vital cues on key elements of marksmanship...
We included the rifle range because that is a basic and obvious part of military training; something a new recruit will immediately become familiar with. While the game introduces players to the look and procedures of marksmanship training, clicking a mouse is absolutely not applicable to actual marksmanship training.
When we qualify Soldiers as marksmen we send them to a rifle range. We put a rifle in their hands, not a keyboard and mouse. There are a lot of physical mechanisms entailed in mastering a firearm that cannot be replicated in a game. Indeed, there is no way that manipulating a keyboard and mouse, as players do in the Army's game, can provide vital cues on key elements of marksmanship such as trigger pressure, weapon cant and body position. In the Army, under the guidance of expert coaches, our Soldiers first learn how to align their sights. They then fire many rounds to become accustomed to the recoil of a rifle and to learn how to get a good sight picture.
Even today, in an age when computer games are ubiquitous, teaching rifle marksmanship is a major hurdle in basic training and a major element of Army refresher training for Soldiers in the force. If games taught Soldiers to become marksmen, Army training would be greatly simplified. However, games don't teach our Soldiers how to shoot so we train them with real weapons and ammo on real rifle ranges.
Games may simulate the real world but they do not recreate it. No one would believe that a child could master a racecar by playing a racing game. Likewise, clicking a mouse, as a player does in the Army game, will never teach a person how to shoot.
It's interesting that you considered this to be a fault of the playstation line.
The Playstation line has always had it's own "developer's club" in the form of the netyaroze and linux kits that they provided for the PS1/PS2. It wasn't perfect, but it was there and one of the first for a/major console/ of its kind. The PSP is the only Playstation console that has not had some form of officially sanctioned homebrew enabling feature. Perhaps it's because they lose more on the hardware that they decided not to release any homebrew development package, that's just my speculation. the PSP homebrew scene is larger because even though many dont wish to admit it, but there is a higher significant portion of the DS community that is younger, or simply don't care or know what homebrew is, and don't know where to find the required additional equipment. Homebrew on the PSP is relatively much easier, since all that's required is firmware under 2.71 [basically any PSP created before ~June] and maybe a copy of the widely available GTA:LCS.
Given the release of rumors regarding potential homebrew "support" on the ps3 out of the box http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?st ory=9290 and plans to build their version of XBLA based on user submitted content, this press release by Microsoft seems to be in response to that.
Some features of the xbox360 seems to be in response to Sony's announced features: HDDVD add-on, tacked-on backwards compatibility, motion sensitive camera, homebrew efforts, etc... Just as many features of the PS3 seem to be tacked on in response to MS and Nintendo: motion sensitive controllers, first party wireless controllers, hard drive included, free internet community, real anti-aliasing. Even the Wii has a few features that were borrowed: DVD playback, backwards compatibility, sleeker formfactor, free internet community, downloadable games. All this is to say that this is a prime case of where competition is totally benefitting consumers. The more each company "borrows" from the competition's features, the more each company will have to innovate and release intriguing software if they wish to stay relevent and not lose marketshare. It seems like this is the generation where we as the consumers finally benefit from the three way competition.
1) There are a million and one usb wifi adapters on the market. Wifi is one area that is easily upgradable on the standard. You can also purchase your own adapter for less than $70 [using the list price for the xbox 360 as a marker]
2) You will also be able to use a straight USB connection as well. Depending on the type of game interactivity. [ps2 games already have this functionality]
3) If the PS3 has media center capabilities, it can obviously connect with other devices on the same network; if you have a wireless router on your network already to use with the PSP, the PS3 would see it [without an additional wifi connector] just as it would any other device on the LAN.
Slashdot Mirror
why would nintendo go ahead with a strap that is noticably thinner than any other product? why would you make a strap for an object that you expect people to swing around thinner than the strap that you dangle your digital camera on?
ahem* people get excited when they get frustrated too.
anyways, nintendo has always had a reputation for creating very durable consoles and peripherals. why do you think they make them durable? because their focus demographic of young people and teens are very hard on thier consoles.
why was the strap attached in the first place? you dont have wrist straps on regular controllers [wireless or not], you dont have straps on your tv remote controls.... why not? because under normal circumstances you dont have the move or make motions that allow them to fly from your hands. the wii was designed with this sole purpose in mind. the wrist straps to my camera, psp, cellphone... they are all much more sturdy than the wii strap. certainly none of those are actually intended to be swung around.
personally, nintendo made a bad decision. they need to fully acknowledge it without spin, and then we can move on. of all the possible problems with the wii, i think a cheap strap is the least of my worries. now how about that lack of online multiplayer? =)
why dont we hold off on saying how the ps3 underdelivered for now? its been out less than a month. if you showed me the games available at ps2 launch, i would never believe that the same box would eventually deliver games like god of war or burnout or metal gear.
honestly, looking back at the xbo360 i was disappointed when i saw it for the first time, but a year into development and gems like gears of war are coming out.
you can run windows98 on a 9ghz machine, but it will still be crappy windows 98. that doesnt mean the machine is subpar. lets get launch software bad taste out of our mouths first before we start complaining.
ive never had a problem with the controller. b/w my friends and i, not one controller problem between the 20 or 60 gig versions since launch.
if it wasnt for the internet i wouldnt even know the problem existed.
- the interface has always stayed consistent within regions. software developers have changed its usage. for example, games designed by hideo kojima consistently keep the X as the back button [as it is traditionally used in japan] during localization.
/really/ a gripe?
- slow loading? again, the developers. some titles have taken on the loading beast and bested it. not particularly a playstation problem. the machine was designed in 2000, technology has come along way since. if anything i am amazed when i find some of the more complex games require very little to no loading times.
- low number of controller ports? is this
- no off button? i never use the physical off button i have an older model ps2, but okay that one is a weird decision.
- RGB dvd playback, scart -> 16:9? okay, those are oddities too.
- region lock? almost every DVD device is region locked as default. the dvd playing functionality of the ps2 was always just a cool added bonus to me. i never expected it to deliver every functionality of a high end oppo box.
- requires a network disc? maybe its your region, but they include the network discs with the console and adapters now. worst case scenario you can always borrow one from a friend/ game store.
i have never had any problem with any of my playstation consoles. they all work swimmingly. if you have such issue with the ps2 design, why own one? guess its just the console everyone loves to hate these days, huh?
youre right in that HDTV adoption has taken years to reach this point. however, since the release of this new generation of video games, HDTV sales have skyrocketed. now is the first time crappy HDTVs have been available below the magical $500US mark. the magical line that heralds widespread consumer adoption. the future is now.
/any/ showroom.
within the next year or two, game consoles alone are going to drive HDTV sales more. there will be [guesstimating here] probably 40 million next generation consoles sold in the next year, even if only half of those owners have hdtvs, youre still looking at ~20 million hdtv owners.
video games are that magical content everyone has been waiting for, just as trueHD blu-ray/hddvd movies are. digital cable wasnt and still really isnt a catalyst because of the anemic amount of hd content. as of today, the xbox360 can kinda sorta upscale to 1080p [only via vga if your TV accepts vga, and the content isnt 1080p native so there will obviously be issues], about half of the launch ps3 games support 1080p resolutions. as developers gain more confidence in the ps3 and learn its secrets, do you think the number of titles supporting 1080p will decrease? will the library of bluray/HDDVD titles decrease? of course not. 1080p will eventually be the de facto standard at least for a foreseeable while; its the resolution most new content is being released.
if you want proof that video game sales are driving hdtv sales, take a look at how many 1080p sets are available. just over a year ago there were only two on the market. hd-dvd movies and players only supported up to 720p/1080i movies. the xbox360 folks claimed that "1080p games were impossible". last week i went to best buy and 30-40% of the tvs on display were 1080p. why the 1080p explosion? every store i visit, at least two hdtv showroom displays have a console connected. a year ago, there were no game consoles in
lets not forget that the xbox has done the same. it barely had only 4 years under its belt before it was ditched in its entirety in favor of the xbox360. also, of note... there are a few key people that are former sega people now under the MS banner. lets not forget the intense modularization of the xbox360 seems very much like the genesis era[segaCD, 32x, nomad, saturn, etc...]. theres a baseline and a premium version of everything [tiered online services, actual units, wireless, hardrives, hddvd, controllers, wireless... hell, arent there even two separate versions of the remote control for the thing?] whether it cripples it, or enables consumers to build on over time remains to be seen.
i for one am not too happy with MS for ditching the xbox when it still had plenty of life in it. im sure im not the only one that would have bought games for it over the next two years or so if they kept releasing any.
the ps3 does do video 1080p out. there are some issues with upscaling non-blu-ray content and with downscaling to the proper ratios; something VERY easily done with a firmware update. the article says that the ps3 does not do 1080p24, only 1080p60/30. it has already been officially announced that the very next firmware update will include 1080p24 playback. this becomes even more of a non point when you take into consideration for how few hdtvs are on the market that support 1080p24 today.
also, the article makes it seem like the audio setup on ps3 is difficult. not so. you have the 3 step option to send audio out via hdmi, multiout and optical [complete with pictures of the cables]. he makes it seem as though you are required to purchase a proprietary multi-out cable for optical audio if your reciever doesn't accept hdmi.
given how fast blu-ray decodes hd signals, its not a question whether the cell can handle the load. the cell is capable of decoding multiple hd signals simultaneously [they have already demonstrated this ability]; decoding just one and upscaling/ downscaling it is a non issue, and stupid of sony not to have ready from day one. hence peoples' hate. however, thinking that this will not be fixed is foolish. these days, everything is fixed/ patched post release. i can update the firmware on almost every piece of electronics i own, from my dvd player to even my tv now.
if you need an example of the power behind the cell's hd decoding ability, try this example. get a ps3 and a blu-ray movie. set the movie to fast forward [1.5x] watch how quickly it decodes and handles the frames smoothly.
nintendo's remote can do both because they also have a sensor bar to gather directional information from. also, given that the remote is apt to losing focus every so often, perhaps that is a by product of the rumble tech? who knows?
personally, i would rather not have rumble than deal with the sensor bar and calibration issues for each game. that said, in a perfect world i would want both.
if immersion has such superb motion/ rumble technology, i am most certain that they will release their own version of the controller and everyone will buy that. in the meantime, we can only hope that developers do not remove feedback code from their PS3 games.
"Vast warehousing is so 1980s! (and a sign of inneficient manufacturing)." - THANK YOU!!!!! someone "gets" it!
i am a little late replying to this thread [they can have minds of their own over time], but thanks for doing a better job of explaining how manufacturing truly works these days.
alot of people still think that manufacturing is still done the conveyor belt and warehouse method. nowadays when product runs go well into the millions for a product; each consisting of hundreds of delicate components and elaborate packing, that method just isnt as feasible anymore.
my ex is a senior financial analyst of manufacturing at a pretty large multinational corp, so i have a basic grasp on the true mechanics, but thanks for helping shed some light this.
1. The odds are high that there is a great amount of crossover. I agree However even with the crossover, a large amount are still on dialup. The large part of the country lives in areas where they cant even anything more than dialup. Lil Jimmy being able download a 16MB copy of waverace64 on 33.6-56k, just isn't gonna cut it.
/do/ carry from one generation to the next so long as there is a clear association. going by the market names for consoles:
/some/ ways.
2. That was last generation. The Nintendo name going along with gaming is over ten years old. In 1992, parents were calling games 'nintendo', not 'atari' still. Parents listen to the names their kids call things, and to what they see in the media. The actual playstation name carries alot more name recognition now. The name Sony Playstation has been all over the media for the last ten or so years, because each console is called in varying degrees, 'a sony playstation'. Nintendo's media blitz has been greatly overshadowed by Sony and even Microsoft. The 'Nintendo' name has more or less been replaced by the product name; the media refers to things by: 'gameboy advance', 'gamecube', 'wii'. In a parents mind they dont necessarily make the direct connection b/w these products and Nintendo. The 'Nintendo DS' and the 'gameboy' are exclusions.
3. Brands
xbox -> xbox360.
sony playstation -> playstation2 -> playstation portable -> playstation3.
nintendo gameboy -> gameboy advance.
nintendo -> super nintendo -> nintendo64 -/-> gamecube -/-> wii.
However, also note: nintendo -> super nintendo -> nintendo64 -> nintendo DS.
Brand recognition may not seem like a big deal to you, but there is a reason why EVERY manufacturer brings in marketing corporations to assist with new products. No, it's not the only deciding factor, but it does play a significant helping factor in public recognition and acceptance.
4. No, the backcatalog doesn't necessarily sell a system. However it is always a nice incentive. Playstation owners would be up in arms if they decided to drop BC for PS3. No one ever complained about having BC across gameboy and ds platforms. However, all you have to do is peek into any xbox forum and you will find dozens of threads over BC issues and complaints. Each time you irritate a customer, you risk losing him; just ask any ps2/ xbox360 convert.
Most early adopters of new consoles sell their previous generation system in order to make space/ earn credit towards the new expensive system.
5. Each company is making mistakes and missteps, but I will admit that Sony is making mistakes IMHO. That cant be helped, what I think their biggest sin thusfar is that they are not running damage control. Blu-ray is untested and immature, i agree. In as far as blu-ray being an expensive proprietary medium, blu-ray is thusfar a cheaper and more superior medium compared to HD-DVD. Look at the actual prices, they are cheaper or equivalent in price at worst. Blu-ray is not proprietary, second of all. Its actually less proprietary than DVD in
6. Sony is not losing developers left and right. There have been less than five total cancellations of games out of ~200 announced titles. ~2% does not spell gloom and doom. Games have always been cancelled, it's not new news. The three developers that have decided to not publish for PS3, issued statements that they would not publish/ announce anything during the launch period. They are playing it safe, saying they will reevaluate based on consumerbase in '07.
What series are migrating? GTA? The GTA series has always been multiplatform. The fact that it is being simultaneously released at the same time isn't as major as say, if Sony had to wait out a 6 month exclusivity window. The recent soccer game announcements have been debunked. Pro Evo will be released for PS3 in spring [when it's done], and FIFA is aiming to be released before then. Which formerly exclusive games are migrating to xbox360? Final Fantasy? Devil
They two handhelds did go head to head. Nintendo released first and started with a 4 million unit lead. Why is that? Is it because the DS had an excellent selection of launch games? A port of super mario64 was the best selling DS game for a while, so that's debatable.
/is/ sold. Sony sold it to retail; other than warranty issues, Sony has already made their money by this point and will likely never see that product again.
People bought the initial DS because it was a Nintendo handheld. They didn't have the library at the time, but the GBA backcatalog certainly filled that role well. Before the PSP launch, the only way to play mainstream handheld games was through a GBA. The DS didn't carry the "gameboy" name, but it certainly benefited from the "gameboy" backcatalog and the strength of the gameboy pedigree.
The PSP entered the market with absolutely no backcatalog, no prior experience, and only the strength of the Playstation name. It obviously garnered the initial "wow" factor, but the press has since turned its parent company Sony into an object of hate. This translates into people beginning to hate the PSP, as it was one of their products. In light of all the naysayers and all the negativity there are simple facts that can't be denied.
1. Since its launch the PSP has teetered between #1 and #2 in sales in every territory; beating out the xbox360 and even the PS2. Dead consoles don't beat out the PS2.
1a. The PSP is selling better than the PS1 and PS2 did. Look at where those two consoles are now.
2. Sale numbers vs. Shipping numbers. Every PSP that leaves the sony factory for retail
2a. How retail works. Retailers monitor sales of the products on their shelves. If a product is running low, you restock and order more from the manufacturer. If a product is not selling well, you simple order less or order none at all from the manufacturer. If Sony has consistent shipping requests, that has to correspond to stores trying to meet public demand.
3. Until the release of the DS lite, from the numbers Sony had ~46-52% of the handheld marketshare. I haven't seen US numbers following the release of the DSlite. So even assuming stellar sales, they are not trailing behind as bad as blogs and forums would have you believe.
Okay, so back on topic: the PS3 vs Wii. The handheld arena is much more different from the console arena. Consoles are generally more expensive and the target demographics are slightly older. Here, Sony has the larger backcatalog in terms of games available on the market. What I mean is that you can walk into thousands of game/ pawn/ stores and find bargain bin PS1 and PS2 titles. The Gamecube is the only generation that has media the Wii can read, and Nintendo Virtual Console games are only available for download online. With only ~60% of U.S. homes with internet service, many Wii users will never see the VC benefit; just as many Xbox1 users never saw the benefit of xboxlive.
The playstation name is now as synonymous with video gaming, as Nintendo's name once was. Never giving their consoles a moniker outside of playstation has been a smart move for Sony. Brand recognition for a Playstation3 is alot higher than Wii. With a two part name most just drop the implied Nintendo from the title, like we have done with the Gamecube. For non-gamers, they wouldn't automatically associate the Wii with Nintendo.
These seems like stupid minor marketing points and details, but they matter alot particularly during the xmas season. I predict that the Wii will sell well mainly due to price contrast. However, like the DS vs PSP don't expect Sony to fall totally out of place. There is alot of collective hate for Sony, but that's only here on the internet. Only ~60% of American households even have internet access to hear these kinds of rumors. Out of that percentage, it's not like 100% of those people actually care, or will let it affect their purchase. Price will be a bigger factor than Sony's corporate reputation.
manufacturing usually doesnt start a full year ahead of time or anything. the wii is rumored to have /just/ started production themselves; their launch is supposedly sometime in october. launch units arent created that much further ahead of time as you think. xbox360 production started only ~70 days before the launch. barring component shortages, sony is sticking to standard industry launch plans and may just make their shipping goal. nintendo and sony have console launch experience; no big deal. unlike microsoft who is relatively new to the game, when it comes to mass manufacturing of consumer electronics, sony knows what they are doing.
maybe not, but what is there in dead rising that would prevent it from being ported down to the xbox? the only limiting factor is the amount of onscreen activity. the graphics can be dulled down a bit, and the game would have been the exact same.
what the OP was trying to say is that at least with the ps3 and wii you have the option to have a somewhat unique experience. there is some form of upward progression that is different from just spec increments.
MS has so far done a decent job of convincing the internet world that the xbox360 is relevent, but the real world isnt buying. the US is not respresentative of the world. even the psp, a console that the internet would have you believe is 'dying', sells better than the xbox360 worldwide. it can't match the sales of a handheld console thats older and theoretically should be having its sales trail off slightly by now? psp sales are still brisk, but xbox360 sales are the ones that are trailing off. i dont think that sony is losing too much sleep over the xbox360 anymore.
outside of the new zelda game, what other titles would you consider to be quality launch games for the wii? i see a bunch of interesting games and nintendo has a decent track record, but until you actually play through it is hard to automatically assume which games are quality.
the same argument that most people have here against sony titles also hold true for the others. question everything, not just sony.
"Is it just me or does anyone else want the days to be like the old Nintendo/Sega rivalry where most games came out for both systems where the only real differences were the controller shape, button layout, and the small number of proprietary games (ie - Nintendo's Mario and Sega's Sonic)"
/lack/ of exclusivity. this is where the console manufacturers need to step up to the plate and give developers a reason to choose their respective platform only. are three companies are doing it in their own ways.
excuse me, but i don't remember those days. i've owned a master system, NES, genesis and SNES. i don't remember many identical releases back in those days. what are you talking about?
during the 8 bit era, nintendo forbade third party publishers from publishing software for rival consoles. i dont remember many [if any] 8-bit cross platform games at all... in the 16bit era, things lightened up [mainly due to litigation against nintendo; they were evil too, once...]. but even then cross platform games were drastically different. shadowrun for the genesis was completely different from shadowrun on the SNES. Street fighter 2 played completely different across systems. jurassic park, xmen, mortal kombat1, mortal kombat2, Y's, castlevania... all these games played completely different across systems. often times they weren't even made by the same developer, and weren't considered the same game.
large movie/ media tie-ins like aladdin and earthworm jim and arcade favorites like NBA jam were the only titles that played similarly, but those games were in the minority.
if anything, you undermine your point because these last two generations have seen MUCH more cross platform gaming from third party companies than have ever existed. mainly due to sony's emancipation of third party companies from nintendo's iron grip licensing. now games are relatively the same between consoles, plus or minus a few graphical effects.
i would say that the rivalry would be a much more geniune one if each console had more exclusive titles. what will definitely hurt console gaming in the long run is
gamers need "true" exclusives, not "well, it wont come out on another console for another 3 months... we promise!". while good for the publisher who gets to maximize profit off of a single IP, this disillusions the consumer and erodes brand loyalty. console choice(s) should be about which console provides the best gaming experience, not a) i like this companies first party titles, everything else will be ported to the console anyways. or b) this one has slightly better graphics/ online, etc... c) well i cant afford anything but this one.
a) first party titles are now the only reason to choose a console. its the last bastion of true exclusivity. think halo, mario, zelda games
b) graphics as a selling point doesnt mean much when you have exclusivity for consoles. each console with have its shiners.
c) game consoles should inspire consumers to want to own all three. too many people feel that as long as they get the first party titles they want, third party titles will eventuall get ported.
Okay, so... lets assume the "console war" was over and the solution was to bring the best of all worlds to the console gamer. all three major companies joined forces and will release software on some form of omni-box.
the omni-box will play xbox360 games and hddvds natively, use the wii controller and games, and the entire sony backcatalog. every good idea ever presented by the big three [and sega] will be playable in some form on the omni-box. when resident evil 7 comes out on omni-box what will happen? the only publisher making money will be capcom. but even they wont get anything out of the deal from you, since you and many others like you prefer to play on the PC no matter how great and promising a console or console title will be.
honestly, not to flame you; this is a serious question: would it matter to you if the console died altogether? last i heard, PC gaming was in decline. is it truly in decline, or is pc gamer migration responsible for the rise in console gamers over the past two generations?
this is the most insightful and underrated comment i've read in over a month.
microsoft is going somewhere with thier big xbox/xna/liveanywhere/mediacenter/vista push. [notice how they all tie in together?] they arent going to be satisfied with just making a few games here and there. they have their eyes on the prize. MS has some huge orwellian plans for the future, and it can afford and justify losing billions in chasing those dreams.
sony is king of screwups, i admit that much. however meeting their goal of creating 2 million units by the end of the year will /still/ make for a shortage some how some way. 2 million consoles in four months isnt /that/ outrageous of a goal to meet IMHO.
given that sony has been manufacturing consumer electronics for decades and have seen their fair share of shortages, i dont think that their plan itself is the cause for any shortage. they know what they are capable of, if everything works according to plan. component shortages, unseen defect problems, floods, earthquakes, and various acts of god of war(TM) not withstanding.
feel free to continue to discuss various conspiracy theories whilst i fasten my tinfoil hat.
lol @ OP. cant blame sony; it worked for the DS, right?
on topic: manufacturing of the ps3 hasnt started yet. they have the component manufacturers completing and stockpiling components for the time being.
it doesnt make sense to have millions of completed ps3s sitting in a warehouse waiting to be stolen. besides, sony doesnt have to worry about paying to store the ps3s until they are completed. right now its each component manufacturers responsibility to store the components. its a standard manufacturing procedure to wait until the absolute latest minute before shipping to actually assemble the fully completed product.
the site actually says that there will be no Mac version of XNA, so in a way this pushes Mac xbox360 wouldbe programmers to thier OS. so in an inadvertent way, they are.
Also interesting in regards to the topic, i pulled this choice quote from the website for the game. This is the army's stance on the subject
It's interesting that you considered this to be a fault of the playstation line.
/major console/ of its kind. The PSP is the only Playstation console that has not had some form of officially sanctioned homebrew enabling feature. Perhaps it's because they lose more on the hardware that they decided not to release any homebrew development package, that's just my speculation. the PSP homebrew scene is larger because even though many dont wish to admit it, but there is a higher significant portion of the DS community that is younger, or simply don't care or know what homebrew is, and don't know where to find the required additional equipment. Homebrew on the PSP is relatively much easier, since all that's required is firmware under 2.71 [basically any PSP created before ~June] and maybe a copy of the widely available GTA:LCS.
t ory=9290 and plans to build their version of XBLA based on user submitted content, this press release by Microsoft seems to be in response to that.
The Playstation line has always had it's own "developer's club" in the form of the netyaroze and linux kits that they provided for the PS1/PS2. It wasn't perfect, but it was there and one of the first for a
Given the release of rumors regarding potential homebrew "support" on the ps3 out of the box http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?s
Some features of the xbox360 seems to be in response to Sony's announced features: HDDVD add-on, tacked-on backwards compatibility, motion sensitive camera, homebrew efforts, etc... Just as many features of the PS3 seem to be tacked on in response to MS and Nintendo: motion sensitive controllers, first party wireless controllers, hard drive included, free internet community, real anti-aliasing. Even the Wii has a few features that were borrowed: DVD playback, backwards compatibility, sleeker formfactor, free internet community, downloadable games. All this is to say that this is a prime case of where competition is totally benefitting consumers. The more each company "borrows" from the competition's features, the more each company will have to innovate and release intriguing software if they wish to stay relevent and not lose marketshare. It seems like this is the generation where we as the consumers finally benefit from the three way competition.
Level 5 makes excellent RPGs
http://psp.ign.com/articles/719/719661p1.html
Square continues the FFVII universe
http://psp.ign.com/objects/711/711340.html
Another great remake of a Square classic
http://www.gamestats.com/objects/788/788783/
1) There are a million and one usb wifi adapters on the market. Wifi is one area that is easily upgradable on the standard. You can also purchase your own adapter for less than $70 [using the list price for the xbox 360 as a marker]
2) You will also be able to use a straight USB connection as well. Depending on the type of game interactivity. [ps2 games already have this functionality]
3) If the PS3 has media center capabilities, it can obviously connect with other devices on the same network; if you have a wireless router on your network already to use with the PSP, the PS3 would see it [without an additional wifi connector] just as it would any other device on the LAN.