Sony Probably Going To Do PlayStation 4

Oh really? by 0racle · 2006-12-01 04:25 · Score: 2, Insightful

No shit sherlock. The PS3 would pretty much have to not sell any units before ruling out the PS4 would seem plausible.

--
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."

Re:Oh really? by HappySqurriel · 2006-12-01 04:52 · Score: 3, Interesting

No shit sherlock. The PS3 would pretty much have to not sell any units before ruling out the PS4 would seem plausible.

Well, yes and no ...

Sony's strategy for making money off of a videogame system is drastically different from Nintendo's strategy. Sony makes money because a lot of third parties sell a ton of games on their systems and Sony gets their licencing fee (cut) out of it; Nintendo on the other hand tends to be the number one developer on their own systems by a large margin so they profit through the sales of their own games. For Sony to be really profitable they need to have a very large chunk of the market share so that third party developers have no choice but to develop every game for the Playstation; if they lost enough marketshare that developers were focusing on another platform they would probably be better off leaving the hardware market.

Personally, I don't know the numbers that would require Sony to leave the console market but I suspect if they sold in the Gamecube/XBox range with the PS3 the PS4 might not happen.
Re:Oh really? by MrAnnoyanceToYou · 2006-12-01 05:15 · Score: 2, Funny

Might not happen or might not be profitable? There's a difference. If you're a major multinational corporation, sometimes- out of habit- you spend a few billion dollars. Amusing and sad at the same time.

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Re:Oh really? by shoptroll · 2006-12-01 06:20 · Score: 1, Interesting

Here's my conspiracy theory.

Sony is very very far behind on its road to being the system with the most boxes in the living room. In less than 2 weeks, Nintendo has already moved about 1.5-3 times (depending on if what figures you look at) as many Wiis as Sony has PS3's. This also doesn't take into consideration the fact that the XBox360 has been firmly engrained in the market for almost a full year. For sony to have had a successful launch they would've needed to at least tied with Nintendo for the amount of consoles shipped. By the way, the Wii goes on sale in Japan and Europe next week, so expect the gap to widen.

Then there's the brewing 3rd party discontent. Let's see: PS2 golden child Grand Theft Auto has gone multi-platform, and was confirmed for the XBox360 before the PS3 version was announced. That's a first. Square-Enix has been slowly having an affair on the side with Nintendo, to the point where they are doing another direct PS2 game sequel on a handheld system (FF12-2, first being Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories), in addition to two confirmed titles on the Wii. Then there's the whole business a few years back about them wanting to revisit and revamp FF7-9 to have FFX or better graphics. Well they just got done with updating 1-6, which have sold pretty well. There's a new untapped market for them to exploit with the Wii. Forget the FFVII PS3 tech demo. They could easily pull off some impressive visuals with the Wii if given the chance. And quite honestly, there's going to be a decent market out there for them to sell remakes to, especially if they get crazy with the wiimote and offer the usual hard-ass bonus dungeon + bonus content that they've been offering. Plus they can still make overly impressive FMV if they so choose. In addition, we have Kojima being less than pleased with the lack of rumble on the Sixaxis, which is something they're dealing with but I don't think he's the sort of designer/director who likes to have his style crimped. Sony needs to find a new golden child / poster boy for their system, or they are going to go no where fast. Sure this is probably over analyzing/extrapolating from an ant hill of problems, but there's no denial that these are the franchises that helped a lot to get the PS2 and PS1 to where they were in previous generations. If I was Sony, I'd be more than a little concerned about dissension in the ranks.

I think I read somewhere that Sony needs to sell about 30 games per console for them to break even on each unit sold. That's an awfully large task considering that most games are going in the $40-60 range. That's a minimum of $1200 per gamer. And as the hardcore audience becomes more hardcore and less diverse in their interests, finding 30 worth buying / must have games in their respective niches is gonna be a tough act to pull off. There's no way for them to catch up at this point. Microsoft will have an XBox360 price drop well ahead of any by Sony, and then there's still the Wii which is well ahead of both their price points. Not to mention the fact that the Wii is already the cheapest to make, Nintendo is actually making a profit on each unit regardless of bought games, so they are in the perfect position to drop the price when they want to and not worry about it, especially since manufacturing costs are going to go down as the process refines itself.

Long story/rant short: Sony faces a monumental uphill struggle at this point.

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Re:Oh really? by ivan256 · 2006-12-01 08:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

It is highly probable that over the lifespan of the PS2, they turned a profit purely on the base hardware alone. In other words the later revisions sold at enough profit to make up for any earlier losses. After that, licensing revenues and accessory sales are pure icing. These are the same economics that Microsoft has to deal with. They would have to do worse than you think to turn away from hardware development. They would have to not only lose exclusives, but lose developers entirely.

Many game companies have lived on licensing fees alone, but none of them have survived that way...
Re:Oh really? by HappySqurriel · 2006-12-01 10:05 · Score: 1

Sony started to turn a profit on each PS2 quite a while ago, but the total profits from hardware alone would be tiny in comparison to licencing fees from software. Last time I checked there were close to 750,000,000 copies of PS2 games sold world wide, with Sony making about $6 to $8 on licencing each game (for a grand total of about $5 Billion); to get similar profits from hardware Sony would have had to make a $50 profit from every PS2 shipped.

What I was talking about when I was refering to Nintendo's business strategy being different than Sony is that Nintendo sold about 100,000,000 pieces of first party software on the Gamecube, which means that Nintendo brought in about $3 Billion from first party sales alone on one of the least popular consoles (that survived) in history. I wasn't knocking Sony or anything, but I don't believe that Sony would be profitable if there system was selling in the same range as the Gamecube was.
Re:Oh really? by jpardey · 2006-12-01 14:13 · Score: 1

It seems to me that they are not trying to make money on the game system, and instead are focusing on populating living rooms with blue-ray players. If they can get studios to sign to their format, Sony could do very well when high definition is ubiquitous, and people want discs to watch on it. The PS3 is an investment, either way.

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I have freaks! I did something right...

BREAKING NEWS by C0rinthian · 2006-12-01 04:26 · Score: 5, Funny

Console Manufacturer plans to develop, release console.

In other news, Microsoft hopes to sell software in the future.

Re:BREAKING NEWS by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2006-12-01 04:47 · Score: 1

I think there is some merit in discussions of dropping the hardware biz. For one, the stakes are a lot higher than just making games. They lose money on the hardware in the hopes they will make up for it in licencing fees, which might take several years, assuming they do make that money back. There's quite a lot of price pressure, so production cost reductions might not mean losing less per unit, they may have to reduce the cost of the console first. It's a business model that I don't envy.
Re:BREAKING NEWS by Lostconfused · 2006-12-01 05:32 · Score: 1

Ha, sony, leave hardware? Unlikely, i mean how could that company possibly go on without trying to push another format onto the consumers. I mean they would have to actually start focusing on the content and conforming to standards set by others. Its probably like being a manager of some company and then being forced to sell it and find a 9 to 5 job to make a living
Re:BREAKING NEWS by CommunistHamster · 2006-12-01 05:50 · Score: 1

Wouldn't the same have been said about Sega during the Megadrives heyday?
Re:BREAKING NEWS by Lostconfused · 2006-12-01 05:59 · Score: 1

doesn't mean that dreamcast wasn't a great console with some really fun game. Unfortunately it couldn't compete with the sony.
Re:BREAKING NEWS by Shadowlore · 2006-12-01 08:50 · Score: 1

In other news, Microsoft hopes to sell software in the future.

But get paid for it both today and in the future.

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My Suburban burns less gasoline than your Prius.
Re:BREAKING NEWS by Anonymous Coward · 2006-12-05 01:04 · Score: 0

Source?

Why wouldn't they? by Quiet_Desperation · 2006-12-01 04:27 · Score: 3, Funny

The PS3 in the long run will probably turn out to be OK. You learn from your errors and move on. Why does every decision have to be Draconian these days?

Besides, the promised us the nano-dust based PS9 in that commercial.

Re:Why wouldn't they? by j00r0m4nc3r · 2006-12-01 04:38 · Score: 1

It's not just the PS3. Sony is hurting in several other departments as well.
Re:Why wouldn't they? by Rayonic · 2006-12-01 04:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

The PS3 in the long run will probably turn out to be OK.

Oh yeah, in 2 or 3 years the PS3's price will drop to a reasonable amount, allowing mass adoption.

I'm sure most developers will stick around until then, completely loyal to Sony.

--
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
Re:Why wouldn't they? by SpecTheIntro · 2006-12-01 05:20 · Score: 1

It's not about loyalty, it's about profitability. When the PS2 came out, everyone nay-sayed as well. Look what happened there. I think Sony has made a LOT of terrible decisions in the past few years, but ultimately the brand is still very strong and people still want to buy PS3s. You're assuming its price is a significant hurdle for most people: honestly, we have no way of knowing, because supply is so scarce. If in three months' time, the PS3 is well-stocked and no one is buying them, then you might have a point. Otherwise, there's no reason to believe that developers will shelve games for the PS3. And if Sony continues to have as strong a software library as it has in the past (it is consistently the only camp with plenty of RTS/RPG/Action-Adventure games) then the PS3 will succeed. (Sports/Racing games are the biggest sellers on most consoles but those are almost always cross-console.)
Re:Why wouldn't they? by Rycross · 2006-12-01 07:27 · Score: 3, Interesting

I think the key with PS2 was that they ramped into it. Backwards compatibility was key to this, since Playstation was still being supported a good while after the PS2 came out thanks to it. So if you're an early adopter, you get your DVD player and next-gen games. Otherwise, your old Playstation still has games (albeit less than before) comming out for it, and when you finally can afford a PS2, all those games you bought work on it.

Thats why I don't think price is as much of an issue as people think. Yeah, its expensive (and I don't think I want to pay $500 for it right now, we'll see in a couple months when its actually available), but my PS2 probably has at least half a year in it before its hard to find new games for it, and even then I can get discount games. It can last me until the PS3 price drops.

And brand is a really strong factor. The Nintendo empire wasn't destroyed in a day. The real key to Playstation dominence was that they expanded the market, like Nintendo is trying to do right now.
Re:Why wouldn't they? by buzzzz · 2006-12-01 09:14 · Score: 1

To add that, everyone forgets that Sony is overpriced in ALL electronics categories. Sometimes, far more than a few hundred dollars. Sony is simply the more expensive brand in electronics. They don't compete on price... that doesn't mean people don't buy Sony... they do.

As for the high end console wars, I don't think Wii should even be in contention. It's 360 vs PS3 and no one knows who will come out on the top. Even a suitable 360 bundle is about 500 bucks plus.

As for Wii, I don't see myself playing overnight swinging around like a monkey. It's perfect as a second entertainment system, but for me to switch from PC to console for serious gaming... it's either 360 or PS3.
Re:Why wouldn't they? by Planesdragon · 2006-12-01 11:12 · Score: 1

As for the high end console wars, I don't think Wii should even be in contention. It's 360 vs PS3 and no one knows who will come out on the top. Even a suitable 360 bundle is about 500 bucks plus.

1: You have to really parse the market if you want to eliminate the Wii. There are two inter-related pools of decision-makers a console needs to convince to be a success: game buyers and game makers. The Wii has got the latter very well engaged, and it's price tag is going to do more than make a dent in the former. There has never been a solid market for a "high-end" console; if MS and Sony don't respond to the Wii and make it worth the consumer's dollars, they lose.

2: A "suitable" PS3 bundle floats around $700, before you even buy a second game. It's simply a far more expensive system, which only makes fiscal sense for someone who already has an HDTV and a collection of Blu-Ray discs. Sony doesn't waste any time denying that they're on top in the inverse price war with Microsoft, and neither should Sony fanboys.

As for Wii, I don't see myself playing overnight swinging around like a monkey. It's perfect as a second entertainment system, but for me to switch from PC to console for serious gaming... it's either 360 or PS3.

You don't have to swing with the Wii. You don't even have to stand up. As I see it, the controls aren't all that different than a mouse and keyboard -- ignoring for the moment that serious gamers have a retro nostalga, and the Wii is the only way to legally indulge.
Re:Why wouldn't they? by buzzzz · 2006-12-01 11:46 · Score: 1

1. I don't think Wii has "Game Makers engaged". As a PC Gamer I don't recognize most titles on a Wii. There isn't going to be a GTA4 or a Halo 3 or an Oblivion or any of those games that have cutting edge graphics and cutting edge gameplay on the Wii.

2. There is in fact a market for a High End console if there is a market for "Gaming PCs" where a graphics card could cost half the price of the console itself.

3. I am not disagreeing with you about Sony. I am still on the fence between PS3 and 360 so I am not a "Sony Fanboy" by far, in fact I am considering going in for the 360 instead of waiting for PS3 to become more than it is now. I am just not sold on Wii at all, and I don't see how it is a threat to XBox360 or PS3.

4. Wii may be usable with a regular controller, but the fact is, it's USP is the motion sensing. Take that away and I would rather go for a PS2 over a Wii - better and bigger game collection and cheaper price. Unless you can enjoy all kinds of games with motion sensing... Wii doesn't make any sense as your only gaming console. It can only be a second console for gamers or the primary console for those people who don't play regularly and don't spend hours and hours on games. Now that may be a market in itself, but it's a different market.

5. It's not about nostalgia at all. While motion sensing is cool, I am putting it second behind games with good gameplay AND good graphics. Hopefully, the next gen will have Wii's motion sensing with PS3/360 kind of graphics at medium price. That's the ultimate console.

.
Re:Why wouldn't they? by buzzzz · 2006-12-01 12:43 · Score: 1

Just saw this: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/748/748255p1.html. They managed to successfully install and run linux on a PS3. If someone can get a Myth TV client to install on a PS3... I think that would tilt me to the PS3 side from being a fence sitter between 360 and PS3.

In fact if I could get my hands on one... I might try to do it myself. A Mythtv solution in a PS3 makes it a must have... I wonder what else I could make it do.
Re:Why wouldn't they? by LKM · 2006-12-01 19:11 · Score: 1

I don't think Wii has "Game Makers engaged". As a PC Gamer I don't recognize most titles on a Wii

And as a console gamer, I don't recognize most PC games. Seriously. Looking at PC games, I see stuff like Doom, and that RPG which is also coming out for the 360 (errr... Oblivion, I think), and Sims. And that's it. I don't recognize most of these games. Is that the games' fault? Uhm, no. It's like the PS2 gamer telling me that Nintendo consoles have no A-List franchises. Dude. The fact that you don't recognize them doesn't mean that they aren't there, it just means that you've been playing on a different platform for the last decade!

Your argument is an absolute fallacy.

Unless you can enjoy all kinds of games with motion sensing

Games aren't forced to make use of motion sensing, or even of the remote.

While motion sensing is cool, I am putting it second behind games with good gameplay AND good graphics

But no console will have the Wii remote and PS3 graphics. I'd rather have a space shuttle than a car, too, but that doesn't mean that cars suck. Besides, I've yet to play a game and think "man, this game sucks, but it would be a huge amount of fun if only the graphics looked better."
Re:Why wouldn't they? by KDR_11k · 2006-12-01 20:35 · Score: 1

As a PC Gamer I don't recognize most titles on a Wii.

I consider that an advantage since I'm sure as hell not paying however many hundred Euros on a system that has the same games as my PC.

There is in fact a market for a High End console if there is a market for "Gaming PCs" where a graphics card could cost half the price of the console itself.

Yes but that market is already covered by the high-end PCs and a game for these can be made so it works on slightly less powerful PCs, too (and after a year or two those high-end requirements are actually more mid-level so the potential userbase of the game keeps widening). A console game will not run on a different console without a separate version being released and at that point there's no reason to serve the high end console. A console can only play games specifically made for it while a PC can play anything released for the PC platform.

Take that away and I would rather go for a PS2 over a Wii - better and bigger game collection and cheaper price.

That goes for any next gen console, the point is that the old system becomes obsolete and after a year or two the game support is effectively zero. Of course you can keep using your PS2. I've done that when the Xbox 360 came out and I'll do that when the PS3 comes out. I don't expect the Wii to make me throw the PS2 into a corner, either (at least not immediately).

I am just not sold on Wii at all, and I don't see how it is a threat to XBox360 or PS3.

It's a threat because it competes for the same development budgets. Money spent on making Wii games isn't spent on making PS3 or Xbox 360 games. If the Wii ends up being more profitable than the other systems more money will be allocated to Wii development and less to the other consoles. So you may end up getting all the "hardcore" games on the Wii.

Unless you can enjoy all kinds of games with motion sensing...

I certainly can enjoy all kinds of games with my 102 button gamepad and 7 button plus scroll wheel senses-motion-against-the-desk-surface thingy. Usually very few buttons are necessary and the desk-motion-sensor does almost everything.

While motion sensing is cool, I am putting it second behind games with good gameplay AND good graphics.

The Wii is perfectly capable of good gameplay (otherwise Twilight Princess wouldn't rank in the Top 10 games ever made on sites like GameRankings), the tradeoff is really good motion sensing vs. good graphics. As a PC gamer, would you trade your keyboard and mouse controls (on the same games!) for a gamepad if it meant better graphics?

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.

Shareholder Report Card by eldavojohn · 2006-12-01 04:28 · Score: 4, Interesting

So after keeping up with Sony news on Slashdot, I've learned that on launch they shipped around 150k PS3s and they sold out. I also learned that they lose something like $200-300 per console.

So I guess I figure that they lost around $37 million dollars on that day. So I would imagine that this will look pretty bad on their shareholder report card when their fourth quarter profits for 2006 come out.

Now, they'll make more than that in the future licensing the games. But I doubt they'll make that back before Christmas. So I would suggest holding off on PS4 speculation until the holiday season is over, all the facts are in and the shareholders tell the games division of Sony what to do. In the end, it's not Kaz Hirai or Yuta Sakurai that determine whether or not a PS4 happens, it's the reaction by Wallstreet and the people holding the shares.

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My work here is dung.

Re:Shareholder Report Card by rucs_hack · 2006-12-01 04:30 · Score: 1

they're in a fight for domination. The shareholder will like market domination in the long term rather than immediate profit, since that equals long term profits. Or so I think.
Re:Shareholder Report Card by jonnythan · 2006-12-01 04:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

The R&D and production costs of the consoles is spread out over a fairly large time frame.

It isn't like they calculate up the costs of building a PS3 and don't count it until they sell it.

"OK, we sold 200k PS3's this quarter, so write down $12 million in the 4th quarter revenue box and $16 million in the expenses box"
Re:Shareholder Report Card by couch_potato · 2006-12-01 04:32 · Score: 1

Apparently the shareholders aren't the ones calling the shots at Hewlett-Packard, then.

Cool links.
Re:Shareholder Report Card by jandrese · 2006-12-01 04:35 · Score: 2, Interesting

On the other hand, at only 150k PS3s they have room to sell millions more boxes, preferably after a couple of hardware revisions where the cost of the components (particularly the BD-ROM drive) come way down.

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I read the internet for the articles.
Re:Shareholder Report Card by N3Roaster · 2006-12-01 04:38 · Score: 1

It might look bad for the 4th quarter and although I would hope that investors are not so short sighted (yeah yeah, I know, institutionals), Sony doesn't need to decide if they will do a PS4 for at least a year or two. By that time Wallstreet and everybody else will better be able to judge the success or failure of the PS3 and Sony can work out what it wants to do with regard to future consoles.

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Remember RFC 873!
Re:Shareholder Report Card by DrXym · 2006-12-01 04:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

The problem with relying on Slashdot for your PS3 news is that Zonk ensures to pick the most negative things to say about the PS3. Why anyone would be that juvenile is not known but it's true.
As to how many consoles they actually sold, you'd have to wait for their stock holders report or when Sony itself chooses to break the silence. They continue to say they'll ship 1 million consoles by end of calendar year so perhaps things aren't as bad as people make out. Personally that sounds rather optimistic, but who knows until they say?
What appears definite is that they sold some 85000 in Japan and probably 200-250000 in the US on launch and must have added to that tally since. EA claimed 200,000 units were sold at launch but do they judge that on how many people bought their games or are they privy to Sony sales figures?
Re:Shareholder Report Card by be-fan · 2006-12-01 04:59 · Score: 2, Interesting

The $37m is really chump change compared to the over $1bn spent developing the PS3. Those charges showed up on the earnings reports over the last year or two, so by now most of the losses have been accounted for.

Their investors understand this, because its a very common business model for technology companies. Sony spent over $1bn developing the PS2 as well, and lost money on the first units, but made back multiples of that over the lifetime of the console. Also, any losses they take on the launch are going to be offset by holiday sales of the PS2 (which are still very strong). At this point, PS2 sales are basically free money, since the cost of development was long-ago paid off, and the actual hardware is so cheap to make.

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A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Re:Shareholder Report Card by brkello · 2006-12-01 05:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

This is only if you live in some sort of retarded universe where Sony is only making the PS3.

In reality, the PS2 is selling like crazy and so are PS2 games. Shareholders aren't going to see "Sony loses money selling consoles". They will see that Sony's game division is making money hands over fist and that they are positioning themselves to continue to do that for the next generation. Right now Sony is making an investment on the future. Any investment is a gamble and this is a big one for Sony. But there is way too much money in console gaming right now to even think for a second there won't be a PS4.

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Re:Shareholder Report Card by Red+Flayer · 2006-12-01 05:17 · Score: 1

It isn't like they calculate up the costs of building a PS3 and don't count it until they sell it.
They sure do wait to state the per-unit expenses until the period in which they state their sales. It's a basic principle of accounting known as the Matching Principle. Until they do record the sales (or write off the unsold inventory) the expenses are stated as deferred expenses, which is an asset account. They will remain in the asset account until they are used up, expired, or matched with revenues.

"OK, we sold 200k PS3's this quarter, so write down $12 million in the 4th quarter revenue box and $16 million in the expenses box"
Close -- what they would say is "OK, we sold 200k PS3 units, record $12MM revenue and expense $16MM from the deferred production costs account. This will net a $4MM loss on the PS3 P&L this quarter"

Ditto for R&D. R&D specific to a certain product will be expensed according to a schedule of projected sales over the expected sale life of the product.

--
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Re:Shareholder Report Card by Anonymous Coward · 2006-12-01 05:23 · Score: 0, Insightful

The main reason that Zonk posts all of the anti-PS3 stuff is because the bulk of the submissions the games section receives are anti-PS3 stories. It seems most people reading Slashdot want to see Sony fail. On top of that, it's kind of hard to pretend that everything is just peachy for Sony.
Re:Shareholder Report Card by MMaestro · 2006-12-01 10:49 · Score: 1

No offense, but have you looked at other media sources lately? I've read reports on CNN complaining about Sony's bungling of the PS3 launch. I read in local newspapers about dozens of people being turned away from local the Target store in tears because they only got a supply of THREE units. Webcomics like Penny-Arcade are basically copy-and-pasting news reports of PS3 launch woes into their comics and recieving POSITIVE responses from their audience.
As for Sony's sales, seeing as anyone buying a PS3 is virtually required to buy at least 1 EA game due to a lack of choices, I'd take EA's word on ~200,000 units being sold seriously.
Re:Shareholder Report Card by KingOfBLASH · 2006-12-02 04:04 · Score: 1

As IAAA (I am an accountant), Sony has a couple of ways to not take that big a loss in this quarter:

1. They can "depreciate" it -- basically they chop up one big loss into tiny pieces and take the hit over a long period of time. This is why if Intel opens a new plant, it wouldn't have one hugely unprofitable quarter (from the multibillion dollar investment), and quarters after that with oodles of profit.
2. They can use "accruals" to offset the loss. Basically they say "we've spent $x, but will make back $y, so we will put $y-$x on our balance sheet"
3. They can issue a statement to shareholders that this is an "extraordinary item." They would take a hit in the short term, tell the Street that it won't happen again, and make lots of money in the future.

I'd guess they'd do both #1 and #2.

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(Note to the anal: yes I simplified the above terms but it's good enough for non-accountants)

PS4: The one with... by ivano · 2006-12-01 04:31 · Score: 1, Funny

...a fog machine.

I'll buy that!

Ciao

Re:PS4: The one with... by Crasty · 2006-12-01 04:39 · Score: 1

That console was already produced. It was the N64; but the fog never actually came out of the machine, it was just displayed on the screen.. In just about every game.
Re:PS4: The one with... by Lord+Kano · 2006-12-01 04:57 · Score: 4, Funny

Considering the cost of a PS3 on eBay, the PS4 better come with a vagina.

LK

--
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Re:PS4: The one with... by Thwomp · 2006-12-01 05:26 · Score: 1

That console was already produced. It was the N64; but the fog never actually came out of the machine, it was just displayed on the screen.. In just about every game. Two games that stick in my mind for being particularly bad are Turok and Superman 64. Although, fogging probably helped the former.
Re:PS4: The one with... by I+Like+Pudding · 2006-12-01 06:12 · Score: 1

It will, but nobody will want it because of the lack of a rumble pack
Re:PS4: The one with... by MikeFM · 2006-12-01 07:42 · Score: 1

You know you can probably run out to a massage parlor and get quite the treatment for even the $600 the PS3 cost from the store. You can probably get two or three vaginas and the other connecty parts that make them interesting.

--
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Re:PS4: The one with... by Lord+Kano · 2006-12-01 08:03 · Score: 0, Redundant

You know you can probably run out to a massage parlor and get quite the treatment for even the $600 the PS3 cost from the store.

And as a bonus, you get to keep the diseases for free!

LK

--
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Re:PS4: The one with... by flewp · 2006-12-01 11:53 · Score: 1

Herpes: It's not a bug, it's a feature!

--
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
Re:PS4: The one with... by MikeFM · 2006-12-01 12:15 · Score: 1

Hey, for a geek, at least it means you've gotten laid at some point in your life.

--
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Re:PS4: The one with... by sysadmin_dh33raj · 2006-12-01 19:27 · Score: 1

Aibo. PlaystationAibo. Sony's dogma runs over everyone's karma.
Re:PS4: The one with... by Lord+Kano · 2006-12-07 17:49 · Score: 1

Hey, for a geek, at least it means you've gotten laid at some point in your life.

After high school, it's not that hard for geeks to get laid.

Women make it a game, and of course geeks game quite well.

If you learn to play well enough, you can even get laid in your parents' basement.

LK

--
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano

Market Momentum for the brand by Captain+Kirk · 2006-12-01 04:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

Sony has not let its buyers down with a console yet.

Everyone who buys a Sony console knows there will be many games for it. With that kind of franchaise amd market mementum, there is no way sony will skip releasing a Paystation 4.

The only question is when will technology that is exciting enough to display the new games be ready?

--
1000s Warcraft Gold while you sleep

Re:Market Momentum for the brand by Rycross · 2006-12-01 04:39 · Score: 2, Interesting

Its not really a matter of new technology being available. Usually, a console company tries to squeeze 5-6 years out of a console, so that their customers' investment lasts for a while.

The last company that rapid-fire released new consoles and upgrades to try to keep up with the technology curve was Sega, and it basically destroyed their reputation.
Re:Market Momentum for the brand by r_jensen11 · 2006-12-01 04:50 · Score: 1

What about the PSP?

Or is that a media player instead of a handheld console?
Re:Market Momentum for the brand by LWATCDR · 2006-12-01 05:00 · Score: 1

This is the 21st century no company is too big to go out of business.

Gee... IBM doesn't build PCs anymore.
So the idea that Sony might stop sell game consoles is equally as possible.

--
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Re:Market Momentum for the brand by moo083 · 2006-12-01 05:04 · Score: 1

"there is no way sony will skip releasing a Paystation 4."

Typo, or Freudian slip? If the PS3 is any indication, the PS4 WILL be a Paystation. More paying than playing.
Re:Market Momentum for the brand by Maxwell · 2006-12-01 05:59 · Score: 1

what about it? Tons of great games, killer media applications, cheap expandble storage...how is this a let down?

Mine plays all GB, GBC, GBA, NES, SNES games as well. All of my old GBC games take up ~20M!

My only 'letdown' is I can't get the intellevision emulator to work. Really wanted Tresure of Tarmin. Shrug.

JON
Re:Market Momentum for the brand by Anonymous Coward · 2006-12-01 06:03 · Score: 0

If 30 million units sold is a failure, MS and Nintendo should be bankrupt right about now.
Re:Market Momentum for the brand by Anonymous Coward · 2006-12-01 06:15 · Score: 0

PSP is a letdown because it's a failure for Sony. Playing other companies' IP doesn't get them any money.
Re:Market Momentum for the brand by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · 2006-12-01 06:26 · Score: 1

Lets extend that logic a bit shall we.

1.. Prime
2.. Prime
3.. Prime

Therefore, by inspection, 4 must be prime!

--
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Re:Market Momentum for the brand by Rycross · 2006-12-01 07:09 · Score: 1

But what about PSP games? The thing should have been a portable game console first. What you're describing is a media player/emulator.

Anyone else noticed that the recent PSP commercials seem to be focusing very heavily on the media player aspects, and glossing over gameplay?
Re:Market Momentum for the brand by HappySqurriel · 2006-12-01 07:57 · Score: 1

Sony has not let its buyers down with a console yet.

Everyone who buys a Sony console knows there will be many games for it. With that kind of franchaise amd market mementum, there is no way sony will skip releasing a Paystation 4.

The only question is when will technology that is exciting enough to display the new games be ready?

This may be true, but the same could have been said about Nintendo when they were wrapping up the SNES. You could say there's a first time for everything ...

I know that Sony likes to hype early and hype often but they really should be focusing their hype on the PS3. Why do I care about Blu-Ray or The Cell processor? What about the PS3 makes it worth more than the XBox 360? What about the PS3 justifies the price tag?
Re:Market Momentum for the brand by MemoryDragon · 2006-12-01 09:11 · Score: 1

Good for you fanboy, you obviously forgot to mention that the gameboy, gbc etc... games are played on emulators and sony tries to do everything in its focus to shut the scene out.
I am not sure if the latest firmware revisions are hacked up to the degree that you can start the emulations.

Sorry to say that, but without the homebrewers constantly hacking the firmware open the psp would be dead as a brick. It is really funny that nintendo is the only reason why many people even have a psp!
Re:Market Momentum for the brand by Control+Group · 2006-12-01 17:32 · Score: 1

Strictly speaking, 1 is not a prime number.

I'm just saying.

--

Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
Re:Market Momentum for the brand by LKM · 2006-12-01 19:21 · Score: 1

Sony has not let its buyers down with a console yet.

I own a PSP, you insensitive clod. I call it my portable Lost player.
Re:Market Momentum for the brand by apoc06 · 2006-12-04 09:14 · Score: 1

lets not forget that the xbox has done the same. it barely had only 4 years under its belt before it was ditched in its entirety in favor of the xbox360. also, of note... there are a few key people that are former sega people now under the MS banner. lets not forget the intense modularization of the xbox360 seems very much like the genesis era[segaCD, 32x, nomad, saturn, etc...]. theres a baseline and a premium version of everything [tiered online services, actual units, wireless, hardrives, hddvd, controllers, wireless... hell, arent there even two separate versions of the remote control for the thing?] whether it cripples it, or enables consumers to build on over time remains to be seen.

i for one am not too happy with MS for ditching the xbox when it still had plenty of life in it. im sure im not the only one that would have bought games for it over the next two years or so if they kept releasing any.

Kutagair's Promotion by RichardMarks · 2006-12-01 04:36 · Score: 0

Given that the father of the 100+ million Playstation and 105+ million PS2 console was just promoted to President and Group COO of the entire SCE Group and is now the boss of Kaz...

Yeah, 'Probably'...

Re:Kutagair's Promotion by RichardMarks · 2006-12-01 04:38 · Score: 1

Blah, typo, Kutagari of course.
Re:Kutagair's Promotion by kabdib · 2006-12-01 05:02 · Score: 1

He was fired, essentially. Kicking someone upstairs to a window office (where they do nothing, and can't do any more damage) is a way to save face in Japanese corporate culture. In the US the individual would quit "to spend more time with the family" or some other malarky.

--
Any sufficiently advanced technology is insufficiently documented.
Re:Kutagair's Promotion by RichardMarks · 2006-12-01 05:10 · Score: 1

Nope, Kutagari is now focusing on PS4 development(and other Cell/Playstation hardware to come), while Kaz is now handling day to day PS3 tasks.
Re:Kutagair's Promotion by DeeDob · 2006-12-01 05:35 · Score: 1

The guy would have kept the same position if he went to work on the PS4.

While he may be trully be working on the PS4, my guess is that he really was "promoted" in order to be "removed" from public appearances.

The guy was/is a PR nightmare. Everytime he talked to the media, we'd see tons of information about the "arrogance" of Sony towards it's customers pop-up, and not just on "/.".
Re:Kutagair's Promotion by RichardMarks · 2006-12-01 05:40 · Score: 1

Yeah, fanboys are trying to spin the promotion that way.
Re:Kutagair's Promotion by Lostconfused · 2006-12-01 05:46 · Score: 1

mind being specific, to many different fanboys around these days. And anyways, in what way would it benefit them?

REALLY!!!!11!12!!!!!one!!!!1! by Maugrim · 2006-12-01 04:41 · Score: 1

Wow, that's like saying "Crest is going to make another tooth brush!"

Errr... by Kyune · 2006-12-01 04:41 · Score: 1

I'm impressed. I mean, he way he talks about short-sighted, you'd think the guy didn't work for a company that's gonna be several hundred thousand PS3s behind!

It won't be called PS4 by DrXym · 2006-12-01 04:44 · Score: 3, Interesting

4 is an unlucky number in some Asian countries.

Re:It won't be called PS4 by Mr.+Hankey · 2006-12-01 05:01 · Score: 2, Informative

In Japanese at least, the on yomi (shi) of the number four is a homonym for death. Probably not the sort of feeling they would want to convey for a new console's launch.

--
GPL: Free as in will
Re:It won't be called PS4 by dmleach · 2006-12-01 05:05 · Score: 1

Does anyone know how the systems are marketed in Asia? For example, in Japan is the new system called a "pee-ess-three" or is it transliterated somehow? I could see some cute marketing come out of translating the digit into Japanese, giving "PS-san."
Re:It won't be called PS4 by Hatta · 2006-12-01 05:07 · Score: 4, Funny

In Japanese at least, the on yomi (shi) of the number four is a homonym for death. Probably not the sort of feeling they would want to convey for a new console's launch.

I don't know about you, but I'd buy a console called the DeathStation.

--
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Re:It won't be called PS4 by Mr.+Hankey · 2006-12-01 05:17 · Score: 3, Interesting

Perhaps, but the connotation is a bit different in Japanese. It would be more Sony like calling it the MiseryStation here. I'm sure they'll have something, and it'll probably be a PlayStation brand, but they'll likely come up with another way to name it. Maybe PSNext or something to that effect.

--
GPL: Free as in will
Re:It won't be called PS4 by Aladrin · 2006-12-01 05:19 · Score: 1

If it's not so unlucky that they refuse to have a 4th floor in a building (as the US doesn't have a 13th floor) then I don't think it's very likely to prevent Sony from calling it the PS4.

--
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
Re:It won't be called PS4 by happyemoticon · 2006-12-01 05:45 · Score: 1

Shush, calling it the MiseryStation will just make it a hit with emo kids.
Re:It won't be called PS4 by minus_273 · 2006-12-01 06:02 · Score: 1

since they dont translate the number or the name to japanese and just call it the PS3, i doubt that it would be a problem. But you never know. I know hospitals dont have a room 4 since no one wants to go into a room marked "death".

--
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
Re:It won't be called PS4 by hackstraw · 2006-12-01 06:05 · Score: 1

In Japanese at least, the on yomi (shi) of the number four is a homonym for death. Probably not the sort of feeling they would want to convey for a new console's launch.

Then they will probably call it a Pentium.
Re:It won't be called PS4 by Rycross · 2006-12-01 06:56 · Score: 1

Some buildings in Japan don't have a 4th floor. The apartment building I stayed in didn't. A couple of parking lots also skipped the number 4 too.
Re:It won't be called PS4 by DrXym · 2006-12-01 08:39 · Score: 1

Apparently it as bad as the number 13 for some western countries. Buildings miss floors 4, (13), and 14 etc.. Personally I laugh at the superstitious bullshit that emanates from supposedly enlightened countries. But some people believe it as they do fung shui and other nonsense. Sad but true.
Re:It won't be called PS4 by Daetrin · 2006-12-01 11:10 · Score: 1

I'm sure they'll have something, and it'll probably be a PlayStation brand, but they'll likely come up with another way to name it. Maybe PSNext or something to that effect.
Well you're half right. They _are_ a little superstitious about the number 4 in japan because of the similarity in sound. I've heard that this is why you'll frequently see teams of three or five in anime but rarely of four. And frequently if the number four is invoked at all it's because of some outside cultural reference such as the traditional western four elements or the four chinese celestial guardians. And i believe that sometimes japanese hotels will skip the 4th floor the way american hotels will sometimes skip the 13th floor.
However it's not like they don't have ways of dealing with the issue when necessary. In japan there's an alternate pronunciation, "yon." And the superstition didn't stop there from being a Final Fantasy 4 or a Dragon Quest 4, although they used the "american" pronunciation "foa" rahter than "shi." So i wouldn't be at all surprised if the next sony console is the "Purei Suteshon Foa" in japan.

--
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Re:It won't be called PS4 by Mex · 2006-12-01 11:14 · Score: 1

This is also true in Mandarin. Number 4, "Sì", means clock, or death. So 4 is generally a bad luck number.
Re:It won't be called PS4 by brumby · 2006-12-01 13:21 · Score: 1

The way things are going, it's not the '4' part that's getting the bad connotations.
Re:It won't be called PS4 by LKM · 2006-12-01 19:27 · Score: 1

But others never released a version 4. Psion went from 3 to 5, for example.

economics 101 by Jtheletter · 2006-12-01 04:45 · Score: 1

"selling out of consoles by underproducing" != "huge consumer demand"

For all we know there are only X-hundred-thousand harcore PS fans (in the US) who really want a PS3 and once that many have finally been released here by Sony demand will drop to nearly zero. Current estimates from EA say Sony only shipped around 200,000 at release. Now of course this may not be the case, but claiming that your product has a huge consumer demand because you didn't even make enough to satisfy initial demand is at best misinterpretting demand and at worst an ouright lie. For the record I'm not getting a next gen console so forget the strawman fanboy arguments.

--
-- I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. It's not my fault that life sucks so much. --

Re:economics 101 by DrXym · 2006-12-01 04:58 · Score: 1

There are currently something like 110 million PS2 consoles in the world. It is reasonable to believe of those that there is an enormous number that are very or somewhat likely to move to the PS3. So there is demand, at least for a while. It's just a matter of how quickly Sony can push those consoles out to people who want them before consumers and games makers give up.
Re:economics 101 by NonSequor · 2006-12-01 05:33 · Score: 1

I'm not sure that there's that much demand at the current price point.

And the majority of those PS2s were sold to middle-class and even some lower-class families. These families can't spend $500 on a console. A good chunk of them can't even spend $300 on a console. You can talk about the hard core gaming market all you want, but the numbers say that it's a tiny market segment. Most of their sales have to come from the largest market segment, middle class families.

From what I can see, the PS3 can't match the PS2's sales numbers until the price drops about $300.

--
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
Re:economics 101 by operato · 2006-12-01 05:40 · Score: 1

they didn't sell that many of ps2s at first. it was over the course of the product life. thus price will fall as time goes by and ps3 price will fall... it's inevitable.
Re:economics 101 by NonSequor · 2006-12-01 07:14 · Score: 1

But how is Sony going to handle the price cuts? If they want to sell as many PS3s as they did PS2s they need to get the price down to $200 or less. But they won't be able to sell it for that low until nearly the end of its lifetime. Based on the pricing history of the PS2 we can expect a year before they cut the price on the PS3. And by the same reasoning, it'll be roughly 3 years before it gets to half its original price. So until then they can only sell it to rich kids and single men with too much disposable income.

The PS2 sold as much as it did because it was moderately affordable at the beginning of its lifetime and as the price dropped it became relatively easy for almost anyone to afford one. I just don't see how the PS3 can be as successful as the PS2 if it's going to be forever until it gets cheap enough for most people to buy it.

--
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
Re:economics 101 by DrXym · 2006-12-01 08:27 · Score: 1

I think prices will fall eventually but I don't ever see the PS3 falling below $250 in price. Ever. It's not a question of the components that it contents, but simply the complexity of the system. That said, I don't have a problem with $600 (or $500) either. A Mac Mini costs $600, so a PS3 isn't exactly THAT expensive and offers far more gaming and multimedia potential than a Mac Mini. It even runs Linux which is one of the main draws for me.
That said, I'm in no hurry to buy one. I'm quick defend it when necessary but I'm still quite happy to hang on until next year before buying one. Much as I love the concept of a PS3 (games + music + video + Linux + random functionality) I can wait.
Re:economics 101 by MemoryDragon · 2006-12-01 09:16 · Score: 1

Actally more along the lines of 50 mio still a huge number, but the 110 mio ps2s are highly exaggerated given sonys track record of failing hardware, many users already are at their second or third console thanks to failing drives.

And I care why? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-12-01 04:49 · Score: 0

I finally got around to getting a used PS2 from a garage sale this summer for $2. So what if it only works about half the time, for $2, it's worth it. I couldn't care less about the PS4 right now, and probably won't for years.

Re:And I care why? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-12-01 05:17 · Score: 0

And I care about whether you care why?

Ahhhh... by flitty · 2006-12-01 04:57 · Score: 0

Now I can sleep at night, knowing that if I ever buy a ps3, it will be replaced by a $1000 PS4 computer that has no Discs and plays games over the internets (finally). However, it will still use the same controller as the ps1, and will have the same amount of games and support as the Atari Jaguar.

--
Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog

Re:Ahhhh... by HappyHead · 2006-12-01 06:59 · Score: 1

However, it will still use the same controller as the ps1

But they can't use the ps1 controller - they got sued over a patent violation for that, and had to take parts out of it.

Ok, So What IS It Like Then? by eldavojohn · 2006-12-01 04:57 · Score: 1

Ok, I'll reveal my ignorance here. I'm a computer scientist, not an accountant. But I have had the balance sheet crap shoved down my throat by corporate.

The R&D and production costs of the consoles is spread out over a fairly large time frame.

I'm not talking R&D, I'm talking the cost of each component, as reported on Slashdot, seems to be $300 over the price tag.

It isn't like they calculate up the costs of building a PS3 and don't count it until they sell it. "OK, we sold 200k PS3's this quarter, so write down $12 million in the 4th quarter revenue box and $16 million in the expenses box"

Ok, so what is it like then? You tell me that I don't know how it works but then you don't reveal to me how it works. Here's my problem: components A, B, C, ... & Z all together cost $$$$$. So you buy up a lot of them and they go on your balance sheet as an investment worth $$$$$. Now you sell each console at $$$ and you add the $$$ to your balance sheet as liquid cash. What's your balance now? Well, it's $$ less than what you started with. What I mean by shareholder report card is that you can't doctor this. Yes, they're supposed to think of the future and yes this will probably pay off but that much initial loss still makes people antsy and can't make Wallstreet happy either.

So tell me, how do you work your balance sheets when you're moving inventory at (what is reported to be) $300 less per unit than the raw materials cost. How do you do this and not be accused of 'cooking the books?' I mean, Sony can claim it's a great investment but the balance sheets can't hold assumptions. They have to tell the truth or the SEC will get you. At least that's how my limited knowledge has me thinking.

--
My work here is dung.

Re:Ok, So What IS It Like Then? by blugu64 · 2006-12-01 07:25 · Score: 1

"How do you do this and not be accused of 'cooking the books?' I mean, Sony can claim it's a great investment but the balance sheets can't hold assumptions"

I've taken a couple accounting classes in college. Yes balance sheets very much so can hold assumptions.

--
"Personal ownership is a hallmark of conservative capitalism. And I don't believe I am entitled to anything that I did n
Re:Ok, So What IS It Like Then? by PyroMosh · 2006-12-01 09:23 · Score: 1

That's just the thing. You can't put an exact price on materials for a high technology item like Cell for instance.

Well, you can, but that's only a tiny fraction of it's real cost, so it's an essentially meaningless number.

Let's make some assumptions here, for the purpose of analogy.

Assume it cost $1 Billion to develop the technology in Cell.

Assume that it cost annother $1 Billion to build and / or retool the foundries that make Cell processors.

Assume that the cost in raw materials is $20 for each cell chip.

Assume that it takes 1 hour of assembly line time to build a Cell chip.

Assume that the foundry can build 50 cell chips simultaniously.

Assume that it costs $1,000 an hour to run the foundry (not including materials).

That gives us a rough cost on the part itself. $1000 / 50 chips simultaniously = $20 in foundry time per chip + $20 in materials = $40.

That gives you a very simple, very wrong (depending on your point of view) number of $40 per chip.

Now you have the sticky matter of that $2 Billion to deal with. ($1 Billion in R&D + $1 Billion for the foundry).

This is simply a matter of scale. If I make 1 Million chips, then I divide $2 Billion by 1 Million units and come up with $2,000 per chip. For a total cost of $2,040 per chip.

Now if I don't stop building the chips after a couple months, and actually make say, 100 Million of them over a few years, then you're looking at a cost of $60 per chip (($2B / 100M Units) + $40 = $60). Huge difference. Mostly because of the startup costs. Are you amortizing those into 1 Million units or 100 Million? Simple, really. But it makes putting a precise, tidy number on the cost of the part hard to do.

Now the cost of each new technology in PS3 is going to have the same problems (though probably most intense with the Cell chip). Blu-Ray, I would expect similar issues, though not as dramaticly. And there are other factors I haven't accounted for as well (Bad yields, patents, lowering of production costs over time, etc.). But when they say the actual parts for a Core 2 or an FX are only a few dollars, they're right.

Please note that I'm not in any way an insider in this area, I've just read just enough to be dangerous. All the numbers here were just made up on the spot, and may be wildly inaccurate. They should, however convey the basic idea of how the economics of this kind of thing works. You can read a bit more about this here if you're curious, or you can purchase the origional report here if you have $3,000 sitting around.

Hopefully this clears things up though.

--
Touch everywhere, even when inappropriate.

pricing by Anonymous Coward · 2006-12-01 04:58 · Score: 0

Preliminary pricing estimates indicate that it will cost between $4000 and $6000 dollars. However, it is rumored that Sony is working out a special arrangement with GMAC to offer customers reasonable financing options.

Re:pricing by Anonymous Coward · 2006-12-01 06:48 · Score: 0

Actually, I believe I have read somewhere in the past that Sony actually has its own financing division.

I can't wait for the PlayStation 10! by GreggBz · 2006-12-01 05:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

Well, it takes normally 3 crappy consoles to kill a gaming juggernaut. The last one is usually a desperate effort harnessing some completely obtuse miracles of complex technology.

See: Atari 7600, Lynx, Jaguar
See: CD32, Saturn, Dreamcast
See: Amiga 500, 3000, 4000T

With Sony, since they are so diversified, it would probably take at least 7 crappy consoles before the games division tanks.
So, I guess what I'm saying is that the PlayStation X should be friggin spectacular.

Re:I can't wait for the PlayStation 10! by Dr.+Eggman · 2006-12-01 05:22 · Score: 1

If your going to include Sega's Sega CD and 32x, atleast mention that they were lock-ons to the Sega genesis...

Well, except for later on when some limited all-in-one versions were made. If you make your statement irregardless of the all-in-one, then you are correct that it takes three. However, I don't think it's just crappy consoles that kill a juggernaut. The Dreamcast was a very decent console and (for 2D) Saturn wasn't to bad either. What killed them was better competition, the PS and PS2 and 3rd party support. Saturn was notorious for being difficult to program for. The Dreamcast, though it focused on making it easier for developers, was just simply shut out but the PS2 hype-machine and missing EA. Tieing into thrid party support would also be marketing.

--
Demented But Determined.
Re:I can't wait for the PlayStation 10! by Libertarian001 · 2006-12-01 06:39 · Score: 1

How were you modded "interesting"?

I'll focus on just one part of your post, the Amiga. The Amiga was a computer, not a game console (except for the CD32, which you didn't mention. And never mind what it was "originally" intended for, since that isn't what actually shipped).

I could waste a lot of time ripping your comments to shreads, but I won't because I have better things to do.

I'll just leave you with this: The demise of the Amiga had nothing to do with the technology and everything to do with a thoroughly corrupt and incompetent management that was utterly incapable of marketing the one product that made them money (the Amiga line) and instead focused on their craptastic PC-compatible offerings at lousy prices.
Re:I can't wait for the PlayStation 10! by GreggBz · 2006-12-01 08:28 · Score: 1

I could waste a lot of time ripping your comments to shreads, but I won't because I have better things to do. I'll just leave you with this: The demise of the Amiga had nothing to do with the technology and everything to do with a thoroughly corrupt and incompetent management that was utterly incapable of marketing the one product that made them money (the Amiga line) and instead focused on their craptastic PC-compatible offerings at lousy prices. I know killer. I try to make funny. And, yea, why did you guys mod it insightfull!
Re:I can't wait for the PlayStation 10! by miro+f · 2006-12-01 11:25 · Score: 1

See: Atari 7600, Lynx, Jaguar
See: CD32, Saturn, Dreamcast
See: Amiga 500, 3000, 4000T

N64, GameCube, Wii?

Neither the N64 and Gamecube were a resounding success, and many people predicted after the Wii (or beven before it) Nintendo would do a Sega pull out of the console hardware business.

Now suddenly people are talking about Nintendo regaining the Number 1 spot.

Of course, we won't know what happens for years yet, but I wouldn't discount Sony quite yet.

--
being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
Re:I can't wait for the PlayStation 10! by the_arrow · 2006-12-01 18:24 · Score: 1

Well, the Amiga 500 was all but crappy. And quite successful too.
By the way, none of the Amigas was a "console", even though the 500 was mostly used for playing games. :)

--
/ The Arrow
"How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
Re:I can't wait for the PlayStation 10! by LKM · 2006-12-01 19:32 · Score: 1

I think that the last attempt is usually pretty good, but too late. The Dreamcast was a great console. The Jaguar was widely hailed both in magazines and by developers when it came out, and while it wasn't a true 64 bit console, it did beat the shit out of more expensive consoles like the 3DO.

Sony? by MMC+Monster · 2006-12-01 05:12 · Score: 1

Well, I guess it's better than Microsoft creating the Playstation 4.

(What the heck is the article title supposed to mean? I we supposed to believe that Sony would never create another system and call it a Playstation?)

--
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.

Competition is Good by haddieman · 2006-12-01 05:15 · Score: 2, Insightful

First off let me just say that I am a Nintendo fanboy and I may have a slight bias against Sony. That being said, I think that the video game industry needs more competition as far as in-home and handheld consoles go. More competition generally leads to a better overall product and that is what drives growth. If Sony does not continue the Playstation line I sure hope they come up with a "new" line of consoles for the good of the industry if nothing else.

Re:Competition is Good by zeromusmog · 2006-12-01 11:38 · Score: 1

As a fellow Nintendo fanboy, I agree. I am really disappointed at what Sony is doing with their brand this generation, and there's not much they could have done to make it worse. :( I really want the market to stay with three strong consoles; I'd be really sad if it went down to a Microsoft/Nintendo deathmatch (and for obvious reasons, I was annoyed that so many in the media wrote the gamecube out of the race last generation!)
Re:Competition is Good by justchris · 2006-12-01 13:19 · Score: 1

Don't take this wrong, but that path of thinking doesn't really pan out in reality. Just, for a moment, assume that the PS3 does tank and Sony bows out of the console race. Suddenly, the guy who was on top for 2 generations disappears. Do you really think anyone with the technology and the money to put their hand in isn't going to consider it?
The only reason no one is trying anything right now is because they'd have to go against Nintendo, the company that dragged this industry out of the gutter 20 years ago and still isn't dead, Microsoft who can draw nearly limitlessly upon their OS & Office products, and Sony the biggest name in electronics who has pretty much owned the industry for the last 10 years. With that kind of competition, nobody really believes there's room for another player, but I guarantee you, if any one of them drops out, especially if it's Sony, don't be surprised to hear announcements that other major technology giants are putting their bid in to control what is now a multibillion dollar market that rivals the film industry. Apple, IBM, even Dell or Google can afford to risk it, and are smart enough to provide true competition, and most importantly, learn from Sony's (and even Sega's & Nintendo's) mistakes.
That's the beauty of capitilism. Competition breeds creativity. And the chance to make money breeds competition.

--
just some guy
Re:Competition is Good by MynockGuano · 2006-12-01 17:57 · Score: 1

So how soon until we can start pre-ordering our Phantom IIs?

That's funny by The+MAZZTer · 2006-12-01 05:16 · Score: 1

Last time I checked, Crest's major product was TOOTHPASTE.

Re:That's funny by Maugrim · 2006-12-01 07:31 · Score: 1

You know, brushing your teeth with a toothbrush wouldn't hurt. Try adding one these to your arsenal of hygiene warfare. http://www.crest.com/products/toothbrushes.jsp

Oblig. Penny Arcade by The+MAZZTer · 2006-12-01 05:21 · Score: 1

I can't find it though, it's where Gabe buys a box of forks off of eBay and thinks it's a Playstation 5 or something. PA's search function sucks, Google can't find it either, anyone happen to have a URL?

Re:Oblig. Penny Arcade by Phs2501 · 2006-12-01 07:10 · Score: 1

It's easier to search Penny Arcade here.

License plates by freeweed · 2006-12-01 05:25 · Score: 1

Absolutely. I used to work at a place that issued license plates for cars. Many Asian customers would literally refuse to do business with us unless we gave them a plate with no 4s in it. As mentioned, the word for "4" is a homonym for "death" in several countries.

The irony, of course, was that when the province went to specific date expiry, 1/30th of these people had a big "4" sticker on the corner of their plate, as their birthday happened to mean that their plates expired on the 4th of the month. I guess it's harder to change your birthday due to superstition :)

It's much like how North Americans avoid plates with "666" on them. Personally, I TRY for these :)

--
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.

Meet the Osbournes by goombah99 · 2006-12-01 05:42 · Score: 1

IN a stunning development, Osbourne computers announces the future development of the Osbourne2. Sales of of the just released Osboune1 plummet. Osbourne goes out of bussiness and the #2 is never released.

--
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.

Or alternatively by Anonymous Coward · 2006-12-01 06:22 · Score: 0

Winamp couldn't be bothered with version 4. If the analysts are looking worried about the PS4, why not just pretend you've already done it and skip to PS5?

Dreamcast by sottitron · 2006-12-01 06:30 · Score: 1

Don't you think Sega thought there would be a followup to the Dreamcast on 9/23/99 (i.e. two weeks after it was released)?

Re:Dreamcast by Meatloaf+Surprise · 2006-12-01 17:47 · Score: 1

Sega never sold the number of consoles Sony has, and I don't remember there ever being the hype around the Dreamcast as there has been around the PS3. If you're going to compare any system to the Dreamcast, I suggest going with the 360 (early release, low console sales, everyone waiting around to see what the new PlayStation has to offer).

Also, Sega was desperate at the time to make a console that didn't completely suck sales-wise (32X, Game Gear, Saturn come to mind). Sony isn't really that desperate since they've been the leader for the past two generations and have come to have a large consumer following, and a long list of companies willing to produce games for them.
Re:Dreamcast by LKM · 2006-12-01 19:37 · Score: 1

There may be more hype around the PS3 than the DC, but if you only count positive hype, the DC would probably be the winner.

Shareholder Report Card irrelevant by Shadowlore · 2006-12-01 07:20 · Score: 2, Interesting

Seriously. Sony is such a large company with fingers in so many pies that to expect a significant stock switch based on a quarter in which they launched the PS3 is naive.

xXx State of the Union LOST Sony 60 Million. Did that affect their stock? Nope. Their entire movie studio division posted a net loss of some 65 Million for 2005. Did that affect their stock price? Nope. What did shareholders have to say about that? Not a damned thing.

From Sony's site:

In the year ended March 31, 2006, consolidated sales and operating revenue rose 4.4% from the previous year, to ¥7,475.4 billion. This result was largely attributable to increases in the Game and Financial Services businesses.

At current rates, that's about 64 billion US, with a pre-tax proft of just under 2.5 billion. Do you know how many consoles sold at a $300 loss it would take to make a dent in that? Answer: a lot more than they can make in a quarter. ;)

Dude, you've got to apply some reality to the fantasy. In this case, fantasy loses out. 30 million dollar loss. Not a big deal to a company posting pre-tax profits in the 2.5 billion dollar range. Additionally, they had revenue from the PS3 prior to a single console being sold. Game companies started licensing deals with Sony over a year ago.

Wall Street and shareholders will have no net effective opinion to Sony about the PS3. That is a pro AND con about a company the size of Sony. They can do stuff like the PS3 and not care so much about the shareholders' opinion. Same with MS and the XBOX division which also still loses money on console sales.

You can also look at it anotehr way. One of the deals with the PS3 for Sony is the rapid commoditization of the Cell processor set. While the Gaming division may have funde dmuch of Sony's investment, Gaming will not be the only beneficiary of the Cell. Same is true of the BlueRay component. If you look at strictly Gaming Division numbers, there is likely cause for concern. However, when you factor in the advantages to establishing Blue-Ray as the dominant choice (more licensing), as well as the use of the Cell (and requisite licensing) in computers and multimedia devices as well as who knows where else, Sony would actually be wise to continue this trend. GM, as well as Ford, does the same thing. The C5 Corvette's engine, the LS1, was funded not by the sports car/performance division but by the Truck division. The Truck division moved it's base engine to the LSx design, the Corvette group benefitted. Sony is likely doing this in reverse.

So PS4? Absolutely. The only question is when and what advantages/advancements/improvements over the PS3? Multiple Cells? Large solid state drives instead of spinning hard drives? Obviously they'll keep PS1-3 compatibility, it works so well for them to have that, and to be the ONLY one to say that all prior [platform] games will continue to be usable. Which means it will still had a drive capable of reading them, even if they moved to a non-disc format for some reason. Who knows. I see absolutely nothing to indicate they won't make a PS3 and a PS5.

--
My Suburban burns less gasoline than your Prius.

Re:Shareholder Report Card irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · 2006-12-02 00:42 · Score: 0

xXx State of the Union LOST Sony 60 Million. Did that affect their stock? Nope. Their entire movie studio division posted a net loss of some 65 Million for 2005. Did that affect their stock price? Nope. What did shareholders have to say about that? Not a damned thing.

Of course xXx bombed. Who would want to see a movie with a stupid rapper negro who used to call white women "white cave bitches"?

Better start saving for it now. by No2Gates · 2006-12-01 07:37 · Score: 1

Since it will probably have 16 processors and a terabyte of RAM and a blue-green-red ray uber drive, then price should be about 35000.00

--
Every time you call tech support, a little kitten dies.

Sony's Hamburger Hill by docrmc · 2006-12-01 07:38 · Score: 1

Well analyzed, shoptroll.

For some weeks now I have ceased ranting (not raving) about the shortcomings of the PS3, if only because i was beginning to sound dangerously like the 'Slay Sony' bandwagon- i am not Anti-Sony, i did not vote/vow to "never touch a PS3 console". Indeed, I would like that, despite everything, Sony would prosper, should they correct some of what ive found to be serious errors in judgement.

Instead, these weeks, I have spent parsing the release lists for the game controls, as it is well known that Sony makes up for its losses on consoles, through its cut off software sales. I needed to know who has the more interesting lineup, more promising release dates, and would those factors overcome the deficiencies i see in the products.

I determined, for myself, that Sony held more titles, exclusively, that I was interested in, over, say, the Wii, but by a rather narrow margin! Furthermore, Ive been monitoring the desertion and cross-platforming of titles.... Yes, Sony is in danger, imo.

In fuzzy game math: If 8 games that "I" want are cross-platformed, and exclusively, Wii has 10 i want, and Sony 13, then, when i look at the price tags on the units.. which will i choose? And that I represents the average buyer, and the average buyer is not the gaming enthusiast. Polls have indicated that ppl are not willing to spend more money this Xmas than last (if they could only ship enough by Xmas...they prolly can't), and the economy is not and will not be one in which - to interpret figures for this purpose only - the average consumer will be shelling out $300+ more for a console. This last fact indicates price cut, so that Sony would require more than the current 30 game computation to break even.

And yet they talk about a PS4.... Bold move. And not in a Ford sort of way. (oh, wait, theyre floundering also.. perhaps, yes, then.) Frankly, they've not paid enough attention to PS3 yet to talk about such a future. If this turns out to be just a lesson in what they should not have done, it is indeed a rather expensive lesson, and one which some analysts have said that they cannot write off. Sony must address their hardware problems/inefficiencies/perceived inficiencies; the marketing nightmare that is, and not the dream release that they try to spin; the shipping fiasco that continues; the unhappy software vendors; the increasingly distressed public/potential patrons.

Yes, i agree, this is an uphill battle... and it may indeed be a bloody one. This is turning out to be Sony's version of Hamburger Hill, and i increasingly wonder if they will ever come out on top. Until any advancement is made, I will sit happily with my ol' PS2, for which I am sure there will be a plethora of titles for some time to come.

--
"Moral indignation is just jealousy with a halo."

Good god. by Anonymous Coward · 2006-12-01 08:55 · Score: 0

What the hell kind of stupidity is this? You people have the nerve to post THIS on the same page as Egyptian pyramid building method revelations and pretexting legislation news? I mean, "no shit" has been said, but I don't think it could possibly be said enough for this one. Damn.

Where are the HTPC games? by tepples · 2006-12-01 09:34 · Score: 1

(Sports/Racing games are the biggest sellers on most consoles but those are almost always cross-console.)

Why don't more multiplayer sports and racing games show up on home theater PCs in addition to consoles?

Re:Where are the HTPC games? by FishWithAHammer · 2006-12-01 09:36 · Score: 1

Because not enough people have home-theater PC rigs.

--
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
Re:Where are the HTPC games? by KDR_11k · 2006-12-01 20:59 · Score: 1

Why don't you just stuff the normal PC version into that HTPC?

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.

Homebrew cat-and-mouse by tepples · 2006-12-01 10:01 · Score: 1

Mine plays all GB, GBC, GBA, NES, SNES games as well.

Sony doesn't make that model anymore. Nintendo, on the other hand, continues to make Nintendo DS systems that are compatible with NoPass.

Other OS Installer vs. XNA Creators Club by tepples · 2006-12-01 10:13 · Score: 1

What about the PS3 makes it worth more than the XBox 360?

PlayStation 3: Sony provides Other OS Installer, its official way to install other operating systems. For instance, I've seen a video of starting Fedora on a PS3 on YouTube. If you have Fedora, you have all the games that come with Fedora, and if they support joysticks, they will work with SIXAXIS. Total price: $500 for PS3 console.

Xbox 360: Microsoft plans to provide XNA Creators Club, its way to run .NET on your Xbox 360 console. Microsoft plans to make it available by subscription only, costing $100 per year, and it will require Windows XP (thus shutting out people who still use an older computer from the Windows 2000 days or who jumped ship for Linux after Windows 2000). Total price even for people with a recent Windows PC: $400 for Xbox 360 console plus $500 over the life of the console.

Re:Other OS Installer vs. XNA Creators Club by HappySqurriel · 2006-12-01 11:39 · Score: 1

I wasn't really intending for those questions to be answered ... they were mostly examples of what Sony should be answering ...

Anyways, I could be completely uninformed but I thought the purpose of the XNA creators club was a very inexpensive way for hobbiest/indie developers to get access to the XBox 360 to develop products that could eventually be released on XBox Live. Sonys Other OS Installer isn't really about this from what I gather ...

Pureisuteeshon Surii by tepples · 2006-12-01 10:20 · Score: 1

In Japanese at least, the on yomi (shi) of the number four is a homonym for death. Probably not the sort of feeling they would want to convey for a new console's launch.

In Japanese, the number in the name of a Sony game console is read as the ei-yomi ("surii"), not the on-yomi ("san"). The name of the PLAYSTATION 3 console is pronounced "Pureisuteeshon Surii".

Freeware and shareware gaming on Mac by tepples · 2006-12-01 10:29 · Score: 1

A Mac Mini costs $600, so a PS3 isn't exactly THAT expensive and offers far more gaming and multimedia potential than a Mac Mini.

A Mac mini computer can run games for developed for Cocoa, Carbon, DHTML, SWF, or Java. This includes every Warcraft game (including WoW), a large library of shareware and freeware specifically for Mac, as well as a metric b*ttload of casual web games. As Darwine matures, this number of compatible titles will only increase. But your comparison to the PS3 is apt because Linux also has a library of freeware games.

Re:Freeware and shareware gaming on Mac by DrXym · 2006-12-01 10:44 · Score: 1

A Mac Mini is somewhere between lacklustre and awful for playing games. Even titles such as WOW which wouldnt tax any PC are lucky to clock 15fps out of a mini.
Its too early to say what the PS3 is like playing games through Linux since it's framebuffer and may remain so, but it kicks seven shades of shit out of the mini when it plays games natively.
The mini certainly has more RAM than the PS3 (512 vs 256Mb) which might be noticeable, but I think I'd prefer a PS3 any day. It's worth noting that Apple want their place under the TV too - look at their iTV offering. The problem as I see it is that people don't want the complexity of running two devices to play video when one would do. On that basis the PS3 is much superior. Having said that, who knows what the future holds? Sony may spend so long trying to produce a VOD solution that Apple or somebody else wins by default. The same for the gaming aspect.

Profit by Kuvter · 2006-12-01 10:31 · Score: 1

When it comes to profit they matched the wrong company from last generation. Microsoft lost money on their XBox console and had to scrap up that loss with their games and now Sony is too. They should have matched Nintendo who made money on their console and their games.

Nintendo was the one who profited the most last generation, it looks like they will again.

The great thing is no matter which company profits the most it's the gamers who always win out. Competition is good.

--
"To be is to do." --Socrates
"To do is to be." -- Aristotle
"Do-Be-Do-Be-Do..." --Sinatra

At last... by NewTon_was_wrong · 2006-12-01 11:54 · Score: 1

I can get rid of my Intel crap, hopefully they will port AIX to it! Brgds to all mankind!

Playstation3-Laptop by cheekyboy · 2006-12-01 16:28 · Score: 1

shrink it more, add a keyboard and an 15" lcd screen, and this 'computer' can be a $1500 laptop that plays ps3 games.

--
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.

So, they like money by Anonymous Coward · 2006-12-01 18:32 · Score: 0

If they like money so much, why are they allowing themselves to lose such a large amount of it (upwards of $200) on every PS3 sold? The losses they are going to incur will be so high that it can hardly imagine them breaking even with the PS3 in the long run. Nintendo, in "lowly" 3rd place, has been far more profitable than Sony's game division.

Monkeys and PS3s by LKM · 2006-12-01 19:03 · Score: 1

that doesn't mean people don't buy Sony... they do.

But that is changing. Look at Sony's other businesses. They are losing market share left and right (iPod? HDTV screens?)

It's 360 vs PS3 and no one knows who will come out on the top. Even a suitable 360 bundle is about 500 bucks plus.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The 360 is already overpriced, and not selling well as a result. In fact, it's selling worse than the original Xbox. The PS3 is even more overpriced.

I don't see myself playing overnight swinging around like a monkey. It's perfect as a second entertainment system, but for me to switch from PC to console for serious gaming...

Serious gaming? Give me a break. I'd rather look like a monkey, but actually have fun.

HAHAHA by LKM · 2006-12-01 19:16 · Score: 1

The problem with relying on Slashdot for your PS3 news is that Zonk ensures to pick the most negative things to say about the PS3

HAHAHAHAA

I think that particular problem is with you. If you read any other news source, you'd know that they sound just like games.slashdot.org - even worse, usually.

Tons of NINTENDO games, you mean by LKM · 2006-12-01 19:24 · Score: 1

Tons of great games (...) GB, GBC, GBA, NES, SNES

So, when you say "tons of games," you actually mean "tons of Nintendo games."

Because you can't buy new PSP games and keep playing the emulations.

The problem is one PC per player by tepples · 2006-12-02 08:10 · Score: 1

Why don't you just stuff the normal PC version into that HTPC?

Because the vast majority of multiplayer PC games do not recognize more than one gamepad per PC. Multiplayer mode expects one PC on the LAN per player, not four players each holding one gamepad plugged into a USB hub. I thought the whole point of HTPC gaming was to get away from having to buy an extra PC and monitor per player.

Winamp by Nicolay77 · 2006-12-04 05:18 · Score: 1

Well, that explains why there were no Winamp 4!

(Yes I know the 2+3=5 stuff and all that :P)

--
We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.

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Sony Probably Going To Do PlayStation 4

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