"Just as the world went through a biplane phase, we have to go through a rocket phase."
During the "bi-plane phase" there were numerous builders, some even home built, that pushed the technology along. Before the war was the commerce and thrill seekers that funded these efforts and out of them we got some amazing innovations, and some deaths (it was prize money that sent folks across the Atlantic, not national pride).
This is the topic We get trouble by these days and I don't get it. Lindbergh was the first to cross the Atlantic (solo), but we don't talk about the many who died trying. Those that died in the early BeeGee racers were test pilots like the Yeagers to come later in military life. Bottom line, there was a lot of dying going on as the aviation technology grew, in part because the cost of entry was less expensive, and our society did not wring our hands over each death.
Along comes NASA, Government funding, cold wars and soon our position changes from low cost to unaffordable. Never was there a prize for commercial or individual achievements in space flight for the world wrapped "War" around the purpose and that is the most fleeting of reasons for growth. We also get the sense that even one life is too costly, because we've tied it to national pride, national image and By God if those boys die then it reflects badly on our country. Bullshit! The people who died in Columbia were not heros, they were astronauts doing their job. Had they even survived they still would not be heros for they used training to figure out how to survive (or equipment). I respect human life, but we got to stop this direction that space and those who attempt to go are gods, protected at all costs. No, I would not put my ass in some home grown experiment and get launched into space (I prefer my technology use more mature). but I will applaud anyone who takes the chance, weighs the options, and goes. Even that failure would teach us more then we learn at the glacial pace taken today.
My hats off to SpaceX, I wish them success, but I also wish more people tried or were encouraged for out of 100 or 1000, there might be one that finds a working model for the next step in space.
I'm confused...In the State of California, coffee is know to cause cancer or when in the State of California, coffee causes cancer. That is some pretty selective cancer and one state I think I'll avoid in the future....Whew!
And yet extreme Muslims still went ahead and started destroying these artefacts contrary to world and Muslim leaders. Granted, the P got the origin wrong, but the essence of the statement still has merit. Leaders, from whatever group, eventually reap what they sow. There is enough Muslim radicalism that at some point, it will be taken so far that the same leaders who condemn are the one's responsible for feeding that type of action (I wanted to say hate...maybe).
Look at the US and the current Republican party. The leaders set about to make Obama a one term president which was fertiliser for the budding Tea Party. 2010 was the storm clouds on the horizon of the Grand Old Party, 2012 may be the storm that does major damage for seat after seat is going to TP candidates and their extreme, almost destructive action in congress. So now leaders try to say one one hand "Stop, this is not the way to govern", yet continue the fan the flames by exclaiming provocative statements to the press, even on area of agreement.
Once you start a ball rolling downhill, the path is out of your control. You cannot stop it by crying "Please, don't roll any more", but only by destroying the ball or getting directly in its way...even then you'd most likely be crushed.
That renewed my faith in teaching....Wonderful. Also proves the point that you're never to old to learn for I had not known that about plants. Thank you.
I seen various posts about how this was not that special, a sailboat has done it before...but has anyone looked at the size of this boat. 102 ft long 55 ft wide...seriously folks, have you ever been on a sailboat, especially the ones they sail for speed? Space and comfort are the first to go. You could play tennis underneigh the panels in this thing and I figure the berths were a little drier then on anything less then then a luxury yacht.
The advantage with this over sail is that the operation is vastly simpler then sailing, less people required to make it go. Yes Yes, computer control can take care of some of the trim, but at the end of the day, this ship is just a powerboat on steroids, and can be run with less specialised skills in sailing. I think this is an amazing accomplishment, knowing what it takes to go across the ocean. I also feel that not only have they shown how well panels can work in pretty harsh conditions, but they open the door for more research into improving solar technology for marine use.
FFS, has/. sunk so far that we don't use our imagination for scientific potential any more?...Kids!....meh.
Do you use those words everyday, every time you talk about a program or programming? Most likely you just design and develop without even thinking much about the definitions. I did not say I don't use those practices in building a OOP, I just don't focus on the definition. When I go into an interview I would hope the interviewers want to focus on how I solve problems, deals with design questions, or interact with people, because skills can be taught or refreshed, but thinking...teaching that takes a lot longer then companies want to spend money on.
So yes, I still think they are esoteric terms that have very practical use in day to day development, but show little value when trotted out for defining in an interview. Anyone can memorise a sentence.
See, I felt the opposite and feel he was turning it around on assholes. Asking a brain teaser at an interview is just plain stupid. Unless the job is solving brain teaser or alien languages what value is a question like that? None. It is a job and 99% of the time the job function will be mundane and routine.
Now a good interview would ask about current events, thoughts on direction in the industry of choice or any other manner of questioning that gets into who the person is, what they think about, and will they fit with a group. The next time I get asked what are the principles of Object Oriented Programming are, I may just sum it into one phrase "get the job done well", as to whether I know encapsulation, polymorphism, or the rest of the esoteric terms has no value to my work.
well said. You comment at the end resonants with me. I think you voice the deep down inner thought many of us have, we vote for the least scared politician. What is equally sad is that were there to be a voice of strength, shining light on the banalities of our systems, and encouraging all of us to think beyond our own small box, that person would be torn apart by the mob (aka media) before the message ever got far enough out to be heard by the masses. Good politicians have learned that to survive, it is best to be as quiet as a mouse in a church.
I checked out the site and the question in my mind is how well does that scale. Sure, you can get better yield with grow lights, but now take that thought to the back 40, 50, or 1000 acres and explain how it works. DO you have a lens that some how transforms the sunlight across a pasture?
You make a bold statement, but show little in fact. If this is a monsanto buster, show your cards for a got some local farmers that would be very interested in your thoughts.
In principal I don't disagree with your premise that there is more to pricing then just supply and demand. However I do also agree that pricing of oil has gone way beyond the foundation of S/D with added factors.
Were it purely S/D then when we see a quick run up of pricing then somewhere we'd have to see a dramatic change in either Supply (Iran oil is cut off?) or demand, (China dumps a gazillion cars on the road). However, Iran's oil had not been a big factor for US consumption, and given Europe is going to drop them, not a big factor for the west in general. As another post said, it is more the "threat" then the actual occurrence which seems to effect pricing on the supply side.
Demand in this country has actually dropped in the past couple of years. Again, overall in the west demand is either steady or dropping, but we do hear that South America is booming, China is growing, India is expanding energy needs, but are they doing so at a double digit rate to match the flash increase in oil and/or gas? Nothing in the news suggests such so it is hard to pin demand to the problem and say, see, the model fits.
The aspect of speculation does fit the pricing model for the simple fact is that it is reactionary and able to effect commodity pricing in short term bursts. Both Up and Down. We did not go from oil at $145 to oil at $37 in a short time frame because of S/D, deflating economy, and world issues. We did so because the market realized that societies would not be able to sustain that cost and sold off earnings before the fall, which helped speed the fall. The rise has been likewise with the market speculating just how much world economies can support the cost before another fall occurs. The current record was slightly over $4(g) in the US ($145 b/o). Can the US handle more, less...I think the point is that people and governments do not need this type of wild fluctuation in planning the future.
I disagree that locking out speculation, or requiring accepting shipment will drive speculators else where. They're hands are in many pots, oil just being one. Were the US and/or EU regulators to tighten requirements, "speculators" would bail on oil and attempt to hedge in other arenas. Clearly oil will run out someday. When may be the topic of barroom arguments, but countries can mitigate the downside, but pushing aggressively to convert a driving public to mass transit when feasible, and/or "other" energy vehicles (like NG or even better, electric or hydrogen). Right now I drive a gas guzzling pickup four times a month to haul horses around. At close to $100 a fill up I would LOVE an alternative, but they are either way to expensive (new car) or impracticable. given a healthy economy, and reasonable job market I would consider conversions, but for now, I just limit my use, and pray our leaders get smart.
Hey, I lived in one of those "banana republics" and I never saw a stinkin one. The State of Delaware is many things to a few people, but Banana Republic? I think not. Now, Enternal Lackey to the Kingdom of Philly? That I might buy.
As a non-scientist, what are the biggest stumbling blocks for effective fusion reaction? is this truly throwing money down the energy hole, or are there verifiable, measurable benchmarks that lead us from one point to the next. Something like, we got x to work, now we need y, when we get y, we get z and then we get fusion. Is it technology holding us back, politics, or the science?
It's funny how people in the west criticize things thousands miles away in a country which they actually know very little about.
So China is the utopian idea I've been missing? From everything I've read and observed, there is much to see as troubling for a that country. Censorship, political imprisonment, environmental irresponsibility, and the exploitation of their work force. Yes, I do know something about that for I watch my own country go down that sad slippery slope everyday. Let's not get all erudite without realizing that people do have brains.
You have good intentions, I admit. Just like you'd send troops to "free" people in countries like Iraq. Because the west simply knows the best.
That statement is spurious and border line troll. I doubt the "west" knows best, but between deadly dictators and bought corrupt politicians in a semi-free society, I'll still take the western view for now.
It's easy to get on the moral ground and throw your opinions around. I think GP asked a good question: if there were another, better civilization (heck, it could be the aliens) came and told the American people that your working conditions sucked, and demanded radical changes, so that you lost your current job, would you be happy about it? Or, you'd rather push changes in your own pace and way and see that gets implemented in your own society?
I do not see the US or any western country telling the "people" of China to change, they are pointing out that the government of China is allowing inhumane working conditions for their own people. in fact, I don't think it's even the western government saying much, it is the general population that reacts to information that shows inhumane conditions allowed to be forced on people. As a human I say "That is a bad place to work". If where they came from is worse then I'll say "That is an even worse place to work" and both statements will be valid. Whether China chooses to change is not up to me. What I can do is say to my country, I don't like us dealing with a government that places such a low value on human life, stop dealing with them till they change. That I could say to companies the same thing, but as another poster commented, there is almost nothing electronic that does not come out of the cesspool of indentured labor called Foxconn. I limit my purchases, I make known my feelings, and do what I can to promote the idea that people in China, India, and other exploited societies should have decent, humane working conditions. Sadly the threat of death is enough to quell the organization of workers to allow them to demand this for themselves.
The Chinese people are not slaves or animals. Ironically, I have a feeling that some people who try to help them view them as so. Give them some credit and let them fight their own fights.
The Chinese are a proud, and amazing people with an truly deep history. Sadly those people are ruled in such a way that their voice will not be allowed to be heard. It is hard to fight when the rule of law does not protect you. I would rather my country stay out of anything direct, but instead take a stance that says "We'll be happy to do business with you when you provide humane rights to your work force". It may cause me hardship in the short term, but it would be the right thing to do.
I see...no culpability by a totalitarian government here...
1 - Make life conditions horrible for population 2 - Offer sightly less horrible conditions in factory 3 - ??? 4 - Profit, and repeat step 1
I keep seeing this argument pop up, "hey, at least its better then the farm" like it is a good moral position. In this example, China does not seem to interested in improving the lifestyle of their rural population for it would undercut a steady supply of workers in the factory. The human becomes part of the machine and like any part, when it goes bad, just replace for we have a large inventory in stock.
That is how your argument reads under the BS about its better then the alternative. I imagine that the government would not want to consider more humane, western labor laws for two reasons, there would be larges amount of people dropping their agro tools and flocking to cities for work, but higher wages, less work time, safer conditions means that companies have to pay more for labor and thus take off for "greener" pastures in less enlightened countries. Now what do you do will all those people that has hopes for a job.
Foxconn will continue to exist, because we feed the machine by buying stuff made there, and because the government needs Foxconn to help keep the populous if not happy, at least quiescent with the idea of a better life.
Now all you guys claiming prior art, please, send it to the USPO so they can at least ignore it publically instead of what they usually do, ignore by default. Even better, contact the people in this article from Slate "Stamping out patent trolls" and they, Article One Partners,will take it from there. It is one thing for us to think the King has no clothes, or whisper it behind "closed doors" to friends, it is another to shout it out in public or to proper authorities so either action is taken, or you discover the public doesn't really care.
(Okay, OT) How did I miss this show. I was a teen geek back then, but little access to regular TV though I do remember Buck Rogers. Anyway, close to 50 episodes of mid 1970's SciFi on Netflix, ready to watch. I am so there. Thanks for the link. I will either love this or hate it, but with Landau as a lead character there has to be some class to it.
So I got Google following me around as I shop, making notes that I looked at horse blankets, I bought horse supplements, I researched electronic white boards, I read various political blog sites, and they know I'm a Libra...much of that public knowledge anyway and not much different then if someone physically followed me around and noted all the stores and building I went into. Computers make it easier, but not much different in concept.
For Google to keep their "Do No Evil" motto intact would be to establish all this information as (1) and opt in format so that no one but Google and myself sees this data (2) that all the data they collect is made available to me and I can be selective in what I allow shown to the public and (3) when I do opt in I can then be assured that only information I deem acceptable is presented to advertizes and whomever else pays for data like this. Otherwise they have completed their decent into the darkness.
I also always remember that what ever I do on a network is never private. That if I want privacy, I talk face to face, I write a physical letter, or I keep to myself my actions. Never trust the internet with privacy, nor Google potentially.
I'm baffled at times by the conservative view point that, on one hand, advocates less government in our lives, less regulation and oversight, and still attempts to pass laws that do the opposite and attempt to control our behavior. Were this to be presented in the US I could imagine conservative politicians on their soapbox, proclaiming the goodness of this type of law and in the same paragraph extoll the evils of the current controlling body reaching into our personal lives and telling us what to do.
This would be a straw man law, given minimal respect (bought but tossed in the back) while overall ignored. We are a driving society while in Europe it is easier to move about on mass transit or on foot from bar to home if needed. I read many other posts and the sense I get is that we cannot expect to change the behavior of a society over night with a weak law. People will still drink and drive just as many smoke, knowing full well the short and long term effects of the act. If we truly want to "save" people from the drunk driver, then set up a better transit system, establish businesses that assist people getting home from bars so that they wake up with their car in the driveway; something other then this type of banality.
Government of the People, by the People, for the People....meh.
You're doing the same thing the AC did above. If not a troll, list a few keeping in mind that "Not everyone can afford education without help". Enough of this 'This system suck, there are better ways" without some constructive input.
(Disclaimer, I have no children) "Why should *I* pay to educate YOUR CHILD? "
Because you don't want my child coming up to you one night and beating the crap out of you for your wallet so he or she can feed their drug habit. because you don't want my child costing you more when they grow up and continuing the cycle of limited work options due to lack of education.
There are people that exist in this world that do not have money. They cannot afford to pay for private education, they cannot afford to pay for healthcare, they cannot afford to live on the money they receive from their below minimum wage job. What do you do with these people. They exist today. They are right there in the poorest section of a city or town. They live in shacks, tunnels, abandoned homes.
Do you suggest we just let them die? Provide no help, no assistance, just let them starve to death? They exist NOW, today, and they eat, and breath, and live.
Perhaps you suggest we round up the poor, the least able to afford anything and put them in a camp. Who pays for the camp? Perhaps you suggest we round up the poor, those with no education, because they could not afford it and ship them off to third world hell holes to work as indentured slaves. Perhaps you feel we should sterilize the poor so they stop having children and stop being a burden on your society.
You seem like one of these people that looks at a homeless person and says "get a job" like they are plentiful and hiring someone who wears a skull cap of tinfoil.
As Hatta comments, you help pay for the poor so you do not deal with them rising up and killing you. To put it another way, the more unbalanced a structure, the easier it is to tear down. That is why I accept paying to educate other people's children even when I have none.
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If you were picturing that, I worry for your mind. Then, I watched most of it, I worry for mine. It was like Timecube in video.
I agree with almost everything you said.
"Just as the world went through a biplane phase, we have to go through a rocket phase."
During the "bi-plane phase" there were numerous builders, some even home built, that pushed the technology along. Before the war was the commerce and thrill seekers that funded these efforts and out of them we got some amazing innovations, and some deaths (it was prize money that sent folks across the Atlantic, not national pride).
This is the topic We get trouble by these days and I don't get it. Lindbergh was the first to cross the Atlantic (solo), but we don't talk about the many who died trying. Those that died in the early BeeGee racers were test pilots like the Yeagers to come later in military life. Bottom line, there was a lot of dying going on as the aviation technology grew, in part because the cost of entry was less expensive, and our society did not wring our hands over each death.
Along comes NASA, Government funding, cold wars and soon our position changes from low cost to unaffordable. Never was there a prize for commercial or individual achievements in space flight for the world wrapped "War" around the purpose and that is the most fleeting of reasons for growth. We also get the sense that even one life is too costly, because we've tied it to national pride, national image and By God if those boys die then it reflects badly on our country. Bullshit! The people who died in Columbia were not heros, they were astronauts doing their job. Had they even survived they still would not be heros for they used training to figure out how to survive (or equipment). I respect human life, but we got to stop this direction that space and those who attempt to go are gods, protected at all costs. No, I would not put my ass in some home grown experiment and get launched into space (I prefer my technology use more mature). but I will applaud anyone who takes the chance, weighs the options, and goes. Even that failure would teach us more then we learn at the glacial pace taken today.
My hats off to SpaceX, I wish them success, but I also wish more people tried or were encouraged for out of 100 or 1000, there might be one that finds a working model for the next step in space.
I'm confused...In the State of California, coffee is know to cause cancer or when in the State of California, coffee causes cancer. That is some pretty selective cancer and one state I think I'll avoid in the future....Whew!
And yet extreme Muslims still went ahead and started destroying these artefacts contrary to world and Muslim leaders. Granted, the P got the origin wrong, but the essence of the statement still has merit. Leaders, from whatever group, eventually reap what they sow. There is enough Muslim radicalism that at some point, it will be taken so far that the same leaders who condemn are the one's responsible for feeding that type of action (I wanted to say hate...maybe).
Look at the US and the current Republican party. The leaders set about to make Obama a one term president which was fertiliser for the budding Tea Party. 2010 was the storm clouds on the horizon of the Grand Old Party, 2012 may be the storm that does major damage for seat after seat is going to TP candidates and their extreme, almost destructive action in congress. So now leaders try to say one one hand "Stop, this is not the way to govern", yet continue the fan the flames by exclaiming provocative statements to the press, even on area of agreement.
Once you start a ball rolling downhill, the path is out of your control. You cannot stop it by crying "Please, don't roll any more", but only by destroying the ball or getting directly in its way...even then you'd most likely be crushed.
That renewed my faith in teaching....Wonderful. Also proves the point that you're never to old to learn for I had not known that about plants. Thank you.
I seen various posts about how this was not that special, a sailboat has done it before...but has anyone looked at the size of this boat. 102 ft long 55 ft wide...seriously folks, have you ever been on a sailboat, especially the ones they sail for speed? Space and comfort are the first to go. You could play tennis underneigh the panels in this thing and I figure the berths were a little drier then on anything less then then a luxury yacht.
The advantage with this over sail is that the operation is vastly simpler then sailing, less people required to make it go. Yes Yes, computer control can take care of some of the trim, but at the end of the day, this ship is just a powerboat on steroids, and can be run with less specialised skills in sailing. I think this is an amazing accomplishment, knowing what it takes to go across the ocean. I also feel that not only have they shown how well panels can work in pretty harsh conditions, but they open the door for more research into improving solar technology for marine use.
FFS, has /. sunk so far that we don't use our imagination for scientific potential any more? ...Kids!....meh.
Do you use those words everyday, every time you talk about a program or programming? Most likely you just design and develop without even thinking much about the definitions. I did not say I don't use those practices in building a OOP, I just don't focus on the definition. When I go into an interview I would hope the interviewers want to focus on how I solve problems, deals with design questions, or interact with people, because skills can be taught or refreshed, but thinking...teaching that takes a lot longer then companies want to spend money on.
So yes, I still think they are esoteric terms that have very practical use in day to day development, but show little value when trotted out for defining in an interview. Anyone can memorise a sentence.
See, I felt the opposite and feel he was turning it around on assholes. Asking a brain teaser at an interview is just plain stupid. Unless the job is solving brain teaser or alien languages what value is a question like that? None. It is a job and 99% of the time the job function will be mundane and routine.
Now a good interview would ask about current events, thoughts on direction in the industry of choice or any other manner of questioning that gets into who the person is, what they think about, and will they fit with a group. The next time I get asked what are the principles of Object Oriented Programming are, I may just sum it into one phrase "get the job done well", as to whether I know encapsulation, polymorphism, or the rest of the esoteric terms has no value to my work.
well said. You comment at the end resonants with me. I think you voice the deep down inner thought many of us have, we vote for the least scared politician. What is equally sad is that were there to be a voice of strength, shining light on the banalities of our systems, and encouraging all of us to think beyond our own small box, that person would be torn apart by the mob (aka media) before the message ever got far enough out to be heard by the masses. Good politicians have learned that to survive, it is best to be as quiet as a mouse in a church.
See, I like this thinking. Now for implementation...aye, there's the rub. It would be something to see in the future, growing plants on Mars.
I checked out the site and the question in my mind is how well does that scale. Sure, you can get better yield with grow lights, but now take that thought to the back 40, 50, or 1000 acres and explain how it works. DO you have a lens that some how transforms the sunlight across a pasture?
You make a bold statement, but show little in fact. If this is a monsanto buster, show your cards for a got some local farmers that would be very interested in your thoughts.
In principal I don't disagree with your premise that there is more to pricing then just supply and demand. However I do also agree that pricing of oil has gone way beyond the foundation of S/D with added factors.
Were it purely S/D then when we see a quick run up of pricing then somewhere we'd have to see a dramatic change in either Supply (Iran oil is cut off?) or demand, (China dumps a gazillion cars on the road). However, Iran's oil had not been a big factor for US consumption, and given Europe is going to drop them, not a big factor for the west in general. As another post said, it is more the "threat" then the actual occurrence which seems to effect pricing on the supply side.
Demand in this country has actually dropped in the past couple of years. Again, overall in the west demand is either steady or dropping, but we do hear that South America is booming, China is growing, India is expanding energy needs, but are they doing so at a double digit rate to match the flash increase in oil and/or gas? Nothing in the news suggests such so it is hard to pin demand to the problem and say, see, the model fits.
The aspect of speculation does fit the pricing model for the simple fact is that it is reactionary and able to effect commodity pricing in short term bursts. Both Up and Down. We did not go from oil at $145 to oil at $37 in a short time frame because of S/D, deflating economy, and world issues. We did so because the market realized that societies would not be able to sustain that cost and sold off earnings before the fall, which helped speed the fall. The rise has been likewise with the market speculating just how much world economies can support the cost before another fall occurs. The current record was slightly over $4(g) in the US ($145 b/o). Can the US handle more, less...I think the point is that people and governments do not need this type of wild fluctuation in planning the future.
I disagree that locking out speculation, or requiring accepting shipment will drive speculators else where. They're hands are in many pots, oil just being one. Were the US and/or EU regulators to tighten requirements, "speculators" would bail on oil and attempt to hedge in other arenas. Clearly oil will run out someday. When may be the topic of barroom arguments, but countries can mitigate the downside, but pushing aggressively to convert a driving public to mass transit when feasible, and/or "other" energy vehicles (like NG or even better, electric or hydrogen). Right now I drive a gas guzzling pickup four times a month to haul horses around. At close to $100 a fill up I would LOVE an alternative, but they are either way to expensive (new car) or impracticable. given a healthy economy, and reasonable job market I would consider conversions, but for now, I just limit my use, and pray our leaders get smart.
Hey, I lived in one of those "banana republics" and I never saw a stinkin one. The State of Delaware is many things to a few people, but Banana Republic? I think not. Now, Enternal Lackey to the Kingdom of Philly? That I might buy.
As a non-scientist, what are the biggest stumbling blocks for effective fusion reaction? is this truly throwing money down the energy hole, or are there verifiable, measurable benchmarks that lead us from one point to the next. Something like, we got x to work, now we need y, when we get y, we get z and then we get fusion. Is it technology holding us back, politics, or the science?
It's funny how people in the west criticize things thousands miles away in a country which they actually know very little about.
So China is the utopian idea I've been missing? From everything I've read and observed, there is much to see as troubling for a that country. Censorship, political imprisonment, environmental irresponsibility, and the exploitation of their work force. Yes, I do know something about that for I watch my own country go down that sad slippery slope everyday. Let's not get all erudite without realizing that people do have brains.
You have good intentions, I admit. Just like you'd send troops to "free" people in countries like Iraq. Because the west simply knows the best.
That statement is spurious and border line troll. I doubt the "west" knows best, but between deadly dictators and bought corrupt politicians in a semi-free society, I'll still take the western view for now.
It's easy to get on the moral ground and throw your opinions around. I think GP asked a good question: if there were another, better civilization (heck, it could be the aliens) came and told the American people that your working conditions sucked, and demanded radical changes, so that you lost your current job, would you be happy about it? Or, you'd rather push changes in your own pace and way and see that gets implemented in your own society?
I do not see the US or any western country telling the "people" of China to change, they are pointing out that the government of China is allowing inhumane working conditions for their own people. in fact, I don't think it's even the western government saying much, it is the general population that reacts to information that shows inhumane conditions allowed to be forced on people. As a human I say "That is a bad place to work". If where they came from is worse then I'll say "That is an even worse place to work" and both statements will be valid. Whether China chooses to change is not up to me. What I can do is say to my country, I don't like us dealing with a government that places such a low value on human life, stop dealing with them till they change. That I could say to companies the same thing, but as another poster commented, there is almost nothing electronic that does not come out of the cesspool of indentured labor called Foxconn. I limit my purchases, I make known my feelings, and do what I can to promote the idea that people in China, India, and other exploited societies should have decent, humane working conditions. Sadly the threat of death is enough to quell the organization of workers to allow them to demand this for themselves.
The Chinese people are not slaves or animals. Ironically, I have a feeling that some people who try to help them view them as so. Give them some credit and let them fight their own fights.
The Chinese are a proud, and amazing people with an truly deep history. Sadly those people are ruled in such a way that their voice will not be allowed to be heard. It is hard to fight when the rule of law does not protect you. I would rather my country stay out of anything direct, but instead take a stance that says "We'll be happy to do business with you when you provide humane rights to your work force". It may cause me hardship in the short term, but it would be the right thing to do.
I see...no culpability by a totalitarian government here...
1 - Make life conditions horrible for population
2 - Offer sightly less horrible conditions in factory
3 - ???
4 - Profit, and repeat step 1
I keep seeing this argument pop up, "hey, at least its better then the farm" like it is a good moral position. In this example, China does not seem to interested in improving the lifestyle of their rural population for it would undercut a steady supply of workers in the factory. The human becomes part of the machine and like any part, when it goes bad, just replace for we have a large inventory in stock.
That is how your argument reads under the BS about its better then the alternative. I imagine that the government would not want to consider more humane, western labor laws for two reasons, there would be larges amount of people dropping their agro tools and flocking to cities for work, but higher wages, less work time, safer conditions means that companies have to pay more for labor and thus take off for "greener" pastures in less enlightened countries. Now what do you do will all those people that has hopes for a job.
Foxconn will continue to exist, because we feed the machine by buying stuff made there, and because the government needs Foxconn to help keep the populous if not happy, at least quiescent with the idea of a better life.
And they say you can't learn things on /. Not only did Iearn a new meme, I was entertained as well. Yo Yo Dawg!
Deutsch. as in Ich bin Deutsch.
Now all you guys claiming prior art, please, send it to the USPO so they can at least ignore it publically instead of what they usually do, ignore by default. Even better, contact the people in this article from Slate "Stamping out patent trolls" and they, Article One Partners,will take it from there. It is one thing for us to think the King has no clothes, or whisper it behind "closed doors" to friends, it is another to shout it out in public or to proper authorities so either action is taken, or you discover the public doesn't really care.
(Okay, OT) How did I miss this show. I was a teen geek back then, but little access to regular TV though I do remember Buck Rogers. Anyway, close to 50 episodes of mid 1970's SciFi on Netflix, ready to watch. I am so there. Thanks for the link. I will either love this or hate it, but with Landau as a lead character there has to be some class to it.
So I got Google following me around as I shop, making notes that I looked at horse blankets, I bought horse supplements, I researched electronic white boards, I read various political blog sites, and they know I'm a Libra...much of that public knowledge anyway and not much different then if someone physically followed me around and noted all the stores and building I went into. Computers make it easier, but not much different in concept.
For Google to keep their "Do No Evil" motto intact would be to establish all this information as (1) and opt in format so that no one but Google and myself sees this data (2) that all the data they collect is made available to me and I can be selective in what I allow shown to the public and (3) when I do opt in I can then be assured that only information I deem acceptable is presented to advertizes and whomever else pays for data like this. Otherwise they have completed their decent into the darkness.
I also always remember that what ever I do on a network is never private. That if I want privacy, I talk face to face, I write a physical letter, or I keep to myself my actions. Never trust the internet with privacy, nor Google potentially.
I'm baffled at times by the conservative view point that, on one hand, advocates less government in our lives, less regulation and oversight, and still attempts to pass laws that do the opposite and attempt to control our behavior. Were this to be presented in the US I could imagine conservative politicians on their soapbox, proclaiming the goodness of this type of law and in the same paragraph extoll the evils of the current controlling body reaching into our personal lives and telling us what to do.
This would be a straw man law, given minimal respect (bought but tossed in the back) while overall ignored. We are a driving society while in Europe it is easier to move about on mass transit or on foot from bar to home if needed. I read many other posts and the sense I get is that we cannot expect to change the behavior of a society over night with a weak law. People will still drink and drive just as many smoke, knowing full well the short and long term effects of the act. If we truly want to "save" people from the drunk driver, then set up a better transit system, establish businesses that assist people getting home from bars so that they wake up with their car in the driveway; something other then this type of banality.
Government of the People, by the People, for the People....meh.
I'm sorry...frequently? Frequently? Not sure I'd want to be around in on those infrequent moments (That was a good laugh to start the day, thank you)
You're doing the same thing the AC did above. If not a troll, list a few keeping in mind that "Not everyone can afford education without help". Enough of this 'This system suck, there are better ways" without some constructive input.
(Disclaimer, I have no children)
"Why should *I* pay to educate YOUR CHILD? "
Because you don't want my child coming up to you one night and beating the crap out of you for your wallet so he or she can feed their drug habit.
because you don't want my child costing you more when they grow up and continuing the cycle of limited work options due to lack of education.
There are people that exist in this world that do not have money. They cannot afford to pay for private education, they cannot afford to pay for healthcare, they cannot afford to live on the money they receive from their below minimum wage job. What do you do with these people. They exist today. They are right there in the poorest section of a city or town. They live in shacks, tunnels, abandoned homes.
Do you suggest we just let them die? Provide no help, no assistance, just let them starve to death? They exist NOW, today, and they eat, and breath, and live.
Perhaps you suggest we round up the poor, the least able to afford anything and put them in a camp. Who pays for the camp?
Perhaps you suggest we round up the poor, those with no education, because they could not afford it and ship them off to third world hell holes to work as indentured slaves.
Perhaps you feel we should sterilize the poor so they stop having children and stop being a burden on your society.
You seem like one of these people that looks at a homeless person and says "get a job" like they are plentiful and hiring someone who wears a skull cap of tinfoil.
As Hatta comments, you help pay for the poor so you do not deal with them rising up and killing you. To put it another way, the more unbalanced a structure, the easier it is to tear down. That is why I accept paying to educate other people's children even when I have none.