for reasons of academic research (heh, sort of) do you have a source for this quote?
Well, I believe the first time I heard it was on the show "Beyond 2000," an Australian science and technology show that formed the company "Beyond International" which now produces Mythbusters, among other things. This was about a year prior to the public launch of CD players, if my memory serves correct.
Don't have any other sources, but I think this was said often. Companies nearly always say that about products with a high price-tag when they come out. Similar memes are coming out of the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD propaganda.
The funny thing about the Intelligent Design controvery, is that it has probably scuttled some company's marketing plan. I bet some marketing-droid out there had "Intel: Intelligent Design" ready to sell as the new slogan. but if they actually used it, it would provoke laughter and derision, as "intelligent design" is now associated in the public's mind with anything but intelligence.
Don't we see this shit every decade or so? That sounds like a commercial from the 70s for those new fangled robots... When I can afford this junk I'll be interested.
My dad once consulted for a client who wanted to bring such a system to market in the early 80s. They just had all their priorities so wrong. Kind of like a cross between an Asimov "boy and his robot dog" story and "Better Homes and Gardens" magazine. Crap like rotating, talking clothes hangers in wardrobes, and automated robotic laundry systems.
Some of it would have been fine for say, a uniform business or dry-cleaner that deals in quantity. Not such a great product for the domestic scale.
Melbourne is now the opposite. It wasn't 10 years ago.
PS - I'm born and bred in Melbourne.
I feel totally the opposite. People are much more polite these days. In the days of speeding you would have some methed-up freak speeding very fast, cutting through lanes of traffic, cutting people off, and screaming or honking at anyone trying to drive reasonably. Those drivers seem to be a rarity these days. Maybe they all killed themselves driving?
PS - I'm born and bred in Melbourne.
Likewise. I have noticed things get frustrating and slow in some areas - but that seemed mostly related to the Citylink and all the bloackages it caused as it was slowly and incompetently implemented. Try somewhere like the Eastern Freeway, and the Citylink rage disappears.
Most Australians I've met have been pretty easygoing and laid back... but there's kind of a vaguely masochistic underlying belief that once you go into politics, you have to become "respectable" and adopt "responsible" authoritarian views,
I think there's a little bit of small-town redneck police officer lurking inside almost every Australian - even the hippies and anti-authoritarians.
WHAT ? A TAX to supplement company profits ? The man enjoyed WAY WAY too much Forster beer, I wonder with which money did he pay ! Did he realize that a tax/levy on media/mp3s players/whatnot
The tax thing might be complete speculation. So we have to wait and see. but I imagine the recording industry will be pushing hard for a tax.
It will be interesting to see if there will be enough groundswell in opposition to the tax to matter. Because it would be really fun if there were a consumer revolt. Because it does raise so many interesting questions.
Perhaps the best argument is aimed at big-business (who have influence in government). If your company buys 10,000 CDRs a year for backups or document transfer - then that tax is going to add up. Why is the government penalizing business for the actions of music pirates? This hits them where it hurts - because the Howard government always screams rhetoric about how we musn't inhibit business growth by taxing big business. They won't look very good arguing a tax that affects ALL businesses in Australia, while giving proceeds to a privileged small sector of the industry. Perhaps make the argument that if we have to pay for criminal acts with CDs, why don't kitchen knife manufacturers have to tax their product to pay for victims of stabbings and domestic violence?
Furthermore, if we buy a song from iTunes Music Store, we usually burn it to a blank CD. I specifically paid for that song once, why pay again? And if we have already paid for compensation of these criminal acts - they had better stop spending any more money and time trying to prosecute pirates. Hasn't the crime already been paid for?
"We should have copyright laws that are more targeted at the real problem," Mr Ruddock said. "We should not treat everyday Australians who want to use technology to enjoy copyright material they have obtained legally as infringers where this does not cause harm to our copyright industries."
The truly scary thing is that words which makes sense actually came out of that lying scumbag Ruddock's mouth. makes me wonder what his true motive is.
This should allow IMTS and others to open up for business there.
Say what? iTunes is already open here, and other online music stores have been for years. I don't see how the laws on taping broadcasts and backing-up CDs have anything to do with media sold by the copyright holder in digital form. When you buy from a legit music store online, you are not "transferring" or "copying" - you are downloading a licensed product.
Addressing simple issues of theft or fair use is not *THE* answer, entire business practices, including those of protectionist governments, need to be addressed.
No, it's not. We should return to the original mandate of copyright for "promoting the useful arts." It always seems to be a tug-of-war between corporations and copyers. There is no debate over how art, innovation and society can be benefited or protected. All about cash profits, not cultural ones.
One thing that I've found very odd in Victoria is that the speed limit compliance is very high. At times I've been on highways with low traffic and no one is exceeding the speed limit
Ruthlessly efficient speed camera technology that is nearly impossible to avoid or dispute. Driving is very pleasant in Victoria now, thanks to speed limit compliance, and the roads feel much safer than they do anywhere else I've been on the planet.
I also believe the first round of "shock and awe" TAC safety advertising was based in Victoria, and won international advertising awards for its effectiveness.
The Fosters brothers left New York after one of the early prohibitions and took their fine idea of selling chilled bear with them to Melbourne.
Unfortunately, the Fosters ran into business problems when they arrived in Australia and realized that there were no bears to be found anywhere. So they experimented with chilled kangaroo. This was moderately successful, but chilled meat was not really to Australian tastes. So they decided to try brewing beer instead.
Eureka! For some reason they like this stuff. A legend is born.
And who's fault is that? The world is full of bullies: if you can't stand up to a bully it's your problem, not his.
It might be a problem for "you" - but the bully is obviously at fault. Why does the bully get a free pass, and the blame transferred to the victim? I guess victims of genocide are at fault for not standing up to people with weapons while they remain defenseless.
If you don't have air conditioning, then you probably don't live in a climate where it's hot enough for it to matter anyway.
That's a very odd statement. I live in Australia. It was 46 degrees centigrade yesterday. Most people I know don't have airconditioned homes. We are just used to the heat. Furthermore, airconditioning is a massive waste of energy - not environmentally friendly. Some people don't want to waste and pollute enough to cool a whole house, when they only want their videogame to work.
This attitude seems to be uniquely American - the addiction for air conditioning, and the feel that it is a must. Think of people living in huts in Africa or the Pacific islands - do you think they need airconditioning? No, they design their houses for the climate and use common sense.
I'm not advocating smothering the kid, but parents still have the responsibility to keep an eye on what their kid is doing. Letting the kid do whatever he or she wants is oft-times as bad as smothering the kid.
Right, so what does that have to do with the government and games-sellers? If they want parental responsibility, why are they dicking around with laws on inconsequential video-games, instead of passing laws that punish parental irresponsibility harshly?
These laws are about punishing video-game businesses. They don't punish the prents. In fact, they give the parents a huge loophole. "It's not my responsibility, the video store should have protected Johnny!"
They don't ban sales of circular saws, or put big stickers on them, because they can cut a kid's arm off. No, it is considered common sense that kids shouldn't be using circular saws without supervision. But accidents still happen.
But we aren't talking about 10-year-olds here. Shouldn't 16-18 year-olds be allowed some independence from their parents? Especially if they have shown responsibility. What are we supposed to do - have someone be a "kid" at 17 or 20, and then they suddenly become an "adult" at 18 or 21?
Young people are expected to grow up faster, but have any benefits from growing up or taking responsibility taken away from them. If we don't give teens any rights or independence (or parents for that matter), then how can we expect to blame them or make them take responsibility for what they choose to do?
Some parents are assholes, some children are assholes. But tying parents to children at the hip until 18 is no solution to teaching either side about life. Parents can learn from children's experiences too. If they are allowed to have any.
It would not be a problem if a parent wanted to buy the game for their kid. The state does not want the child buying the game behind their parents back.
I presume we are talking about under-18-year-olds here. Are you expecting a 17-year-old to do all his shopping with a parent? Do you expect parents to infantilize their children and isolate them from reality so much that they have to shop with their teenage kids at all times? that is rather disrespectful to the parent and child. Many teenagers can be trusted by their parents to make their own decisions. What happened to Family Values?
The genesis and evolution of personal digital music appears to have tangential issues of legality, freedom and marketing - alll swirling around in an unholy mess. Precedents are also found in the analog wars over video recording and "home taping." But the advent of digital brought these issues into greater prominence.
Consumer digital music started in a blissful age, with the wonderful CD standard rapidly replacing the mishmash of cassettes, vinyl LPs and singles on the market. At the same time, the music video industry was booming, and perhaps the number one threat to recorded music was actually the taping of music videos with VCRs.
But the CD eliminated that threat quickly. It was a very attractive technology. It was durable and convenient. Did not wear out easily. Was an industry standard. High quality audio. Consumers embraced it. Companies promised that when CDs became popular, the price would drop sharply. But it never did. The miraculous CD technology inspired consumers and made them trust recording industry PR.
And why not believe them? There was a massive catalog of still popular 80s pop music to be digitally re-mastered and released. Or 60s and 70s stuff for some. Current music was still innovating rapidly and diversifying. Presentation and quality was often paramount, with elaborate box sets and and many recordings that were actually meticulously re-mastered to improve on the original. Not just pushed through a processor and "converted."
The main way of piracy of CDs was to use a CD-boombox or component system to record the CD to tape. Most audiophiles would want to listen to the original CD, and not bother taping (especially as they would demand expensive metal tapes for their copies). So most piracy was the shitty-quality boombox, and this just served as marketing for the CD version. Probably the main threat to CDs was from the Walkman - but that was neutralized very quickly (Sony's influence, perhaps?). Portable CD-walkmen were released very quickly, and were often cheaper than hi-fi component players, and price competitive with a high-end cassette-based Sony Walkman.
Then CD burners came along, but the technology was quite esoteric and expensive at first. Blank media was expensive and authoring software rare. But it got the industry's attention, and the rumblings of the anti-digital crusade began in earnest. The honeymoon period with CDs was over. The industry took them for granted, because they were entrnched. When only a few years ago they were trumpeting the "freedom" of the CD medium.
By the time CD burners became common, and the blank media cheap - a new threat was arising. So they never really started the battle on CD copying in earnest before they saw the threat of MP3s and the internet. then the shit really hit the fan, and the mass started really swirling.
Napster. Oh original Napster, you cheeky devil. Don't think I have to elaborate on Napster and the resulting clusterfuck on Slashdot.
So, fast forward a little. before the iPod, there was iTunes. This was not something that made the record labels happy. I'm not sure what prior negotiations, if any, Apple had with the RIAA before launching iTunes. But they went ahead with their "Rip, Mix, Burn" campaign. At the time Napster was floundering legally, and was doomed. So the RIAA, having defeated one opponent, felt that Apple must be the new threat.
So, "Rip, Mix Burn" was attacked for supporting piracy. Apple tries its best to be diplomatic (even though they may have done this to ruffle some feathers) and gets into negotiations with the RIAA over how to legitimize iTunes and Apple's music strategy.
So then the iPod comes out, with the "don't steal music" stickers to cover Apple's ass. But the criticisms keep mounting, and the industry at large sees this new device as a piracy threat. Competing hardware manufacturers are pissed at the iPod stealing all the attention. Significant corporate propaganda campaigns are launched against the iPod. But people keep buying them.
And make sure you qualify "sells quite well" with "for a Mac".
More like "is the best selling 64-bit desktop machine on the planet. And if Macs are outselling PCs (which have a much larger market) - then that must mean that 64-bit PCs are doing much worse than it appears.
Those peope all feel they've been cheated by the company that build the pc's, and when I explain that it's due to the Intel Inside that their ears are bleeding, they swear up and down that they will never get another Intel again. Apparently at least one huge German manufacturer (Medion) got so many complaints about the noise that their new models are all Athlon64's. This one manufacturer is huge in my country, selling an awful lot of pc's through discount malls around here.
I think you are over-reaching. You can buy noisy AMD machines, or quiet Intel ones. It has more to do with case design and layout, and particularly the quality and size of the fans. I owned a Centrino machine, and it was no hotter or noiser than a G4 Powerbook.
What we have is everyone caan be being watched be anyone else, and the a government bound by laws.
What? Do you really think the government will let you spy on them equally? Will the government let you spy on your politician or CEO neighbor?
Also, where are you getting the idea that there will be transparecy, due process and rule of law? The Bush administration has just admitted that they are deliberately violating the Constitution, and they will continue to do so. They called the people who informed the public of this spying, traitors. What makes you think this corrupt government will let itself be held accountable for anything?
Furthermore, what makes you think the NSA contains such smart people? if so, why are we getting so much faulty intelligence?
Management tried to tell these people they were abusing the coupons but since there were no limits or fine print, BB would be in violation of "bait/switch" laws if they didn't honor the coupons. There was nothing we could do about it.
Slashdot Mirror
Well, I believe the first time I heard it was on the show "Beyond 2000," an Australian science and technology show that formed the company "Beyond International" which now produces Mythbusters, among other things. This was about a year prior to the public launch of CD players, if my memory serves correct.
Don't have any other sources, but I think this was said often. Companies nearly always say that about products with a high price-tag when they come out. Similar memes are coming out of the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD propaganda.
The funny thing about the Intelligent Design controvery, is that it has probably scuttled some company's marketing plan. I bet some marketing-droid out there had "Intel: Intelligent Design" ready to sell as the new slogan. but if they actually used it, it would provoke laughter and derision, as "intelligent design" is now associated in the public's mind with anything but intelligence.
My dad once consulted for a client who wanted to bring such a system to market in the early 80s. They just had all their priorities so wrong. Kind of like a cross between an Asimov "boy and his robot dog" story and "Better Homes and Gardens" magazine. Crap like rotating, talking clothes hangers in wardrobes, and automated robotic laundry systems.
Some of it would have been fine for say, a uniform business or dry-cleaner that deals in quantity. Not such a great product for the domestic scale.
I feel totally the opposite. People are much more polite these days. In the days of speeding you would have some methed-up freak speeding very fast, cutting through lanes of traffic, cutting people off, and screaming or honking at anyone trying to drive reasonably. Those drivers seem to be a rarity these days. Maybe they all killed themselves driving?
PS - I'm born and bred in Melbourne.
Likewise. I have noticed things get frustrating and slow in some areas - but that seemed mostly related to the Citylink and all the bloackages it caused as it was slowly and incompetently implemented. Try somewhere like the Eastern Freeway, and the Citylink rage disappears.
I think there's a little bit of small-town redneck police officer lurking inside almost every Australian - even the hippies and anti-authoritarians.
The tax thing might be complete speculation. So we have to wait and see. but I imagine the recording industry will be pushing hard for a tax.
It will be interesting to see if there will be enough groundswell in opposition to the tax to matter. Because it would be really fun if there were a consumer revolt. Because it does raise so many interesting questions.
Perhaps the best argument is aimed at big-business (who have influence in government). If your company buys 10,000 CDRs a year for backups or document transfer - then that tax is going to add up. Why is the government penalizing business for the actions of music pirates? This hits them where it hurts - because the Howard government always screams rhetoric about how we musn't inhibit business growth by taxing big business. They won't look very good arguing a tax that affects ALL businesses in Australia, while giving proceeds to a privileged small sector of the industry. Perhaps make the argument that if we have to pay for criminal acts with CDs, why don't kitchen knife manufacturers have to tax their product to pay for victims of stabbings and domestic violence?
Furthermore, if we buy a song from iTunes Music Store, we usually burn it to a blank CD. I specifically paid for that song once, why pay again? And if we have already paid for compensation of these criminal acts - they had better stop spending any more money and time trying to prosecute pirates. Hasn't the crime already been paid for?
The truly scary thing is that words which makes sense actually came out of that lying scumbag Ruddock's mouth. makes me wonder what his true motive is.
This should allow IMTS and others to open up for business there.
Say what? iTunes is already open here, and other online music stores have been for years. I don't see how the laws on taping broadcasts and backing-up CDs have anything to do with media sold by the copyright holder in digital form. When you buy from a legit music store online, you are not "transferring" or "copying" - you are downloading a licensed product.
Addressing simple issues of theft or fair use is not *THE* answer, entire business practices, including those of protectionist governments, need to be addressed.
No, it's not. We should return to the original mandate of copyright for "promoting the useful arts." It always seems to be a tug-of-war between corporations and copyers. There is no debate over how art, innovation and society can be benefited or protected. All about cash profits, not cultural ones.
Well, we have Russell Crowe, don't we?
Ruthlessly efficient speed camera technology that is nearly impossible to avoid or dispute. Driving is very pleasant in Victoria now, thanks to speed limit compliance, and the roads feel much safer than they do anywhere else I've been on the planet.
I also believe the first round of "shock and awe" TAC safety advertising was based in Victoria, and won international advertising awards for its effectiveness.
Unfortunately, the Fosters ran into business problems when they arrived in Australia and realized that there were no bears to be found anywhere. So they experimented with chilled kangaroo. This was moderately successful, but chilled meat was not really to Australian tastes. So they decided to try brewing beer instead.
Eureka! For some reason they like this stuff. A legend is born.
Seems to be working on most Australians.
It might be a problem for "you" - but the bully is obviously at fault. Why does the bully get a free pass, and the blame transferred to the victim? I guess victims of genocide are at fault for not standing up to people with weapons while they remain defenseless.
That's a very odd statement. I live in Australia. It was 46 degrees centigrade yesterday. Most people I know don't have airconditioned homes. We are just used to the heat. Furthermore, airconditioning is a massive waste of energy - not environmentally friendly. Some people don't want to waste and pollute enough to cool a whole house, when they only want their videogame to work.
This attitude seems to be uniquely American - the addiction for air conditioning, and the feel that it is a must. Think of people living in huts in Africa or the Pacific islands - do you think they need airconditioning? No, they design their houses for the climate and use common sense.
-3: Have we reached the event horizon yet? Have we reached the event horizon yet? Have we reached the event horizon yet?
Well, you gotta nuke something. Nelson
Right, so what does that have to do with the government and games-sellers? If they want parental responsibility, why are they dicking around with laws on inconsequential video-games, instead of passing laws that punish parental irresponsibility harshly?
These laws are about punishing video-game businesses. They don't punish the prents. In fact, they give the parents a huge loophole. "It's not my responsibility, the video store should have protected Johnny!"
They don't ban sales of circular saws, or put big stickers on them, because they can cut a kid's arm off. No, it is considered common sense that kids shouldn't be using circular saws without supervision. But accidents still happen.
Young people are expected to grow up faster, but have any benefits from growing up or taking responsibility taken away from them. If we don't give teens any rights or independence (or parents for that matter), then how can we expect to blame them or make them take responsibility for what they choose to do?
Some parents are assholes, some children are assholes. But tying parents to children at the hip until 18 is no solution to teaching either side about life. Parents can learn from children's experiences too. If they are allowed to have any.
Tetris.
Or, as known locally, "OH- mein Gott! Das fallende Spiel des Blockes. Es zerquetscht!"
I presume we are talking about under-18-year-olds here. Are you expecting a 17-year-old to do all his shopping with a parent? Do you expect parents to infantilize their children and isolate them from reality so much that they have to shop with their teenage kids at all times? that is rather disrespectful to the parent and child. Many teenagers can be trusted by their parents to make their own decisions. What happened to Family Values?
Consumer digital music started in a blissful age, with the wonderful CD standard rapidly replacing the mishmash of cassettes, vinyl LPs and singles on the market. At the same time, the music video industry was booming, and perhaps the number one threat to recorded music was actually the taping of music videos with VCRs.
But the CD eliminated that threat quickly. It was a very attractive technology. It was durable and convenient. Did not wear out easily. Was an industry standard. High quality audio. Consumers embraced it. Companies promised that when CDs became popular, the price would drop sharply. But it never did. The miraculous CD technology inspired consumers and made them trust recording industry PR.
And why not believe them? There was a massive catalog of still popular 80s pop music to be digitally re-mastered and released. Or 60s and 70s stuff for some. Current music was still innovating rapidly and diversifying. Presentation and quality was often paramount, with elaborate box sets and and many recordings that were actually meticulously re-mastered to improve on the original. Not just pushed through a processor and "converted."
The main way of piracy of CDs was to use a CD-boombox or component system to record the CD to tape. Most audiophiles would want to listen to the original CD, and not bother taping (especially as they would demand expensive metal tapes for their copies). So most piracy was the shitty-quality boombox, and this just served as marketing for the CD version. Probably the main threat to CDs was from the Walkman - but that was neutralized very quickly (Sony's influence, perhaps?). Portable CD-walkmen were released very quickly, and were often cheaper than hi-fi component players, and price competitive with a high-end cassette-based Sony Walkman.
Then CD burners came along, but the technology was quite esoteric and expensive at first. Blank media was expensive and authoring software rare. But it got the industry's attention, and the rumblings of the anti-digital crusade began in earnest. The honeymoon period with CDs was over. The industry took them for granted, because they were entrnched. When only a few years ago they were trumpeting the "freedom" of the CD medium.
By the time CD burners became common, and the blank media cheap - a new threat was arising. So they never really started the battle on CD copying in earnest before they saw the threat of MP3s and the internet. then the shit really hit the fan, and the mass started really swirling.
Napster. Oh original Napster, you cheeky devil. Don't think I have to elaborate on Napster and the resulting clusterfuck on Slashdot.
So, fast forward a little. before the iPod, there was iTunes. This was not something that made the record labels happy. I'm not sure what prior negotiations, if any, Apple had with the RIAA before launching iTunes. But they went ahead with their "Rip, Mix, Burn" campaign. At the time Napster was floundering legally, and was doomed. So the RIAA, having defeated one opponent, felt that Apple must be the new threat.
So, "Rip, Mix Burn" was attacked for supporting piracy. Apple tries its best to be diplomatic (even though they may have done this to ruffle some feathers) and gets into negotiations with the RIAA over how to legitimize iTunes and Apple's music strategy.
So then the iPod comes out, with the "don't steal music" stickers to cover Apple's ass. But the criticisms keep mounting, and the industry at large sees this new device as a piracy threat. Competing hardware manufacturers are pissed at the iPod stealing all the attention. Significant corporate propaganda campaigns are launched against the iPod. But people keep buying them.
More like "is the best selling 64-bit desktop machine on the planet. And if Macs are outselling PCs (which have a much larger market) - then that must mean that 64-bit PCs are doing much worse than it appears.
I think you are over-reaching. You can buy noisy AMD machines, or quiet Intel ones. It has more to do with case design and layout, and particularly the quality and size of the fans. I owned a Centrino machine, and it was no hotter or noiser than a G4 Powerbook.
What? Do you really think the government will let you spy on them equally? Will the government let you spy on your politician or CEO neighbor?
Also, where are you getting the idea that there will be transparecy, due process and rule of law? The Bush administration has just admitted that they are deliberately violating the Constitution, and they will continue to do so. They called the people who informed the public of this spying, traitors. What makes you think this corrupt government will let itself be held accountable for anything?
Furthermore, what makes you think the NSA contains such smart people? if so, why are we getting so much faulty intelligence?
I dunno, you gotta admit that concentration camp gag had a certain dark humor to it.
Cletus