I thought the point of Slashdot was to spur on discussion. amcdiarmid's comments are not only valid, but they provide interesting explanations that others might have overlooked. It's not like he said "Parent is bogus because he's a poo-poo head." He just pointed out significant flaws in the argument. The line at the end is clearly intended to be a joke, not a troll.
I don't know if it's legal, but the courts let Blizzard keep that sort of language and actually enforce it. Here's the good news though: if you download the software but do not install it, you never have to agree to the license. That is, until they catch on and make you agree to the EULA before downloading, which some companies do. Now the question is: can you legally reverse engineer the program after downloading it if you don't ever agree to the license agreement? I have no idea what the answer is, but I'd like to think it's "yes."
I wonder if there is a way to trick them into auditing you even if you have never agreed to their license. Then maybe you could charge them with trespass or harassment. If you're in Pennsylvania, you might even be able to hammer them with a third degree felony, like they did to those high school kids.
Let's not forget the Krupp earth mover. I don't think it's the largest machine in the world, but it's certainly the biggist mobile machine I've ever seen on land.
I may rethink my position on the whole speeding stoned thing. You make a pretty good point. It's that whole motivation thing (murder vs. man slaughter, etc.). But it is the off-topic portion of my post anyway.
Back to the issue at hand. Is there a victim? You say yes, the taxpayers. Can you prove that the taxpayers ended up shelling out a single dime for this incident? For all you know they have a salaried IT guy sitting at his desk playing iMineSweeper, or whatever Mac fanbois play. I've run on a few Mac networks, and I have one at the house. I've never known a Mac network to get hosed just because one computer has iChat AV (or any other program) installed and the others don't. Especially now with OSX it is more stable than ever. I seriously doubt that having the root password for your computer is going to cause major problems to the network.
Further, I'm sure the taxpayers are paying much more in court and legal fees in the prosecution of these 13 alleged felons. If you're really that concerned with victimizing taxpayers, you should be more upset at the PA legislature for making this a felony in the first place. And then also get mad at the loony administrator who decided to actually press charges.
Back off topic again. I think you agree with me in concept. Fraud is fraud, etc. That was exactly my point. So instead of making a separate "computer fraud" crime, they should just charge the fraudster with the thousands of counts of fraud. The ultimate effect might even be more jailtime for the bastard. And there'd be no need to waste legislators time making new computer laws. Same goes for copyright protection, let the exisisting laws be used. Don't start writing POS bills like the INDUCE Act.
Interesting that you would bring up the teacher's lounge analogy. Let's steer it a little more towards this article. What sort of outrage would there be if the students were charged with criminal trespass for setting foot in the teacher's lounge? It would be political suicide for any administrator to do such a thing. The principal or teacher would instead tell the student that it was against school policy and that if he were to do it again, he would be punished by detention or whatever.
You bring up another interesting supposition, that rules exist for a reason. Now I agree that most rules exist for a sane reason, but nobody who has been to a public school in the last decade or so would agree with you that *all* of the rules are well-reasoned. In fact you find many rules that are there for no good reason at all. I went to a school where they tried one-way halls. That was a terribly stupid idea that increased tardiness by quite a bit. Yet few protested the stupidity of it all because they were terrified of the vice-principal. That included the teachers.
Stupid rules should be questioned, and changed. Take for instance the new DST law. If people can't explain why the rule is in place then it should be revoked. My mother is a principal at an elementary school. When students or teachers approach her about stupid rules, she asks them to plead their case in a reasoned manner. If they make their point, the policy is changed after discussion with other concerned parties.
I don't like the random violation of rules, but if there is a good reason to do something (like installing a usefull communication tool), then I don't see why a pointless rule should prevent it, just because it's a rule.
That's a terrible analogy, and you know it. It is not the car owner's fault if they leave their keys in the car and it gets stolen. That's like saying it's the girls fault she got raped because she was wearing a short skirt. The major reason this shouldn't be a felony is not the "stupid victim" theory.
The real problem here is that there isn't even a victim. The kids installed iChat AV, for crying out loud. Who was victimized by that? The PA legislature needs to revisit some of their decisions in what constitues criminal computer activity.
If anything there should have been some in-school repercussions, such as detention or sending a note to their parents. There was no reason to get law enforcement in on the action. It should be treated like any other school policy infraction.
We are seeing more and more of this sort of thing. Students do things like cheat, that are clearly against school policy. But now kids cheat on the computer. So instead of it being a school disciplinary action, schools make it out to be a criminal act, just because it took place on a computer. That's just absurd. When fake crimes (i.e. non-criminal school policy violations) take place on a computer, they don't become real crimes. And when real crimes are emulated in a game, they don't become real crimes.
All this inflation of an existing crime (copyright infringement, fraud, cheating, spying) just because it happens on a computer makes me sick. We already have laws that define fraud and the rest, we don't need another one that makes it "extra-illegal" just because it happens on a computer. It's the same thing with drug/alcohol use. We already have laws against speeding and driving recklessly. Why should the moving violation be any more severe if you were stoned/drunk/high at the time?
Well, I'm getting a little off topic, so I'll just shut up now.
Delay allows time for a person to develop some wisdom, education, and wealth before reproduction
What in the world does the Honorable Representative from Sugarland, Texas have to do with this?
actually, the latest Powerbooks have this capability. There are already a few apps that use this "input device" for things like moving a ball or triggering an alarm. I'm not sure that it would be much good as a pointing device, but it might be fun to try.
Try this Google search. It will lead you to pages like this. It's a good start. It seems to be a little biased in its presentation, but it's the "official" story. It's not as useful, but this is funnier.
You're joking right? I haven't been able to find any presidential comment on all this video game hoopla. In Congress, it was not just Republicans making a stink about this "sex scandal." The vote was 355-21. In fact, I think Senator Clinton (D-NY) has been one of the most vocal politicians in all of this. It looks to me like the House was just playing catch-up with this absurd FTC request.
One last thing, gas prices aren't that bad. Of course they're rising; demand is increasing, and supply is decreasing. According to any economics theory, that's a recipe for price increases. If you're going to complain about the Bush administration, stick with some of your other arguments.
TSA guy: What's this thing?
cypherz: It's my Airport.
T: No, we're *in* an airport. What's this circuit in your bag?
c: You see, it's my Airport, just without the flying saucer.
T: Of course we don't have any flying saucers, but what is this?
c: I told you, *my* Airport.
T: No, this is *my* airport! [arrests cyphers]
I don't know about the RIAA, but Macrovision is trying to patent hash spoofing and other disruptive technology... or something like that. I didn't RTFP, so I'm not sure.
I'm very surprised that a PT clinic would have an open WiFi network. My wife's clinic is run by a company so afraid of HIPPA regs that they only have one or two computers connected to the Internet and those aren't on the same network as the computers with the patient info. She can't even email or ftp anything to and from the house to work on (like reports and notes). They're very cautious about that sort of thing.
There are seven states in the US with under 1 million people, according to the Census Bureau. Those 14 senators have no excuse. Though I would like to point out that some senators do send personalized letters. My wife got one from our senator regarding some healthcare legislation last year that she had requested support on.
Slashdot Mirror
Mods, please get a sense of humor.
*dodges bad karma*
That's OK. Just close all the Windows and restart the car. Too bad my dashboard doesn't have an F8 button for safe mode, though. :-(
I wonder if there is a way to trick them into auditing you even if you have never agreed to their license. Then maybe you could charge them with trespass or harassment. If you're in Pennsylvania, you might even be able to hammer them with a third degree felony, like they did to those high school kids.
Let's not forget the Krupp earth mover. I don't think it's the largest machine in the world, but it's certainly the biggist mobile machine I've ever seen on land.
Back to the issue at hand. Is there a victim? You say yes, the taxpayers. Can you prove that the taxpayers ended up shelling out a single dime for this incident? For all you know they have a salaried IT guy sitting at his desk playing iMineSweeper, or whatever Mac fanbois play. I've run on a few Mac networks, and I have one at the house. I've never known a Mac network to get hosed just because one computer has iChat AV (or any other program) installed and the others don't. Especially now with OSX it is more stable than ever. I seriously doubt that having the root password for your computer is going to cause major problems to the network.
Further, I'm sure the taxpayers are paying much more in court and legal fees in the prosecution of these 13 alleged felons. If you're really that concerned with victimizing taxpayers, you should be more upset at the PA legislature for making this a felony in the first place. And then also get mad at the loony administrator who decided to actually press charges.
Back off topic again. I think you agree with me in concept. Fraud is fraud, etc. That was exactly my point. So instead of making a separate "computer fraud" crime, they should just charge the fraudster with the thousands of counts of fraud. The ultimate effect might even be more jailtime for the bastard. And there'd be no need to waste legislators time making new computer laws. Same goes for copyright protection, let the exisisting laws be used. Don't start writing POS bills like the INDUCE Act.
You bring up another interesting supposition, that rules exist for a reason. Now I agree that most rules exist for a sane reason, but nobody who has been to a public school in the last decade or so would agree with you that *all* of the rules are well-reasoned. In fact you find many rules that are there for no good reason at all. I went to a school where they tried one-way halls. That was a terribly stupid idea that increased tardiness by quite a bit. Yet few protested the stupidity of it all because they were terrified of the vice-principal. That included the teachers.
Stupid rules should be questioned, and changed. Take for instance the new DST law. If people can't explain why the rule is in place then it should be revoked. My mother is a principal at an elementary school. When students or teachers approach her about stupid rules, she asks them to plead their case in a reasoned manner. If they make their point, the policy is changed after discussion with other concerned parties.
I don't like the random violation of rules, but if there is a good reason to do something (like installing a usefull communication tool), then I don't see why a pointless rule should prevent it, just because it's a rule.
The real problem here is that there isn't even a victim. The kids installed iChat AV, for crying out loud. Who was victimized by that? The PA legislature needs to revisit some of their decisions in what constitues criminal computer activity.
If anything there should have been some in-school repercussions, such as detention or sending a note to their parents. There was no reason to get law enforcement in on the action. It should be treated like any other school policy infraction.
We are seeing more and more of this sort of thing. Students do things like cheat, that are clearly against school policy. But now kids cheat on the computer. So instead of it being a school disciplinary action, schools make it out to be a criminal act, just because it took place on a computer. That's just absurd. When fake crimes (i.e. non-criminal school policy violations) take place on a computer, they don't become real crimes. And when real crimes are emulated in a game, they don't become real crimes.
All this inflation of an existing crime (copyright infringement, fraud, cheating, spying) just because it happens on a computer makes me sick. We already have laws that define fraud and the rest, we don't need another one that makes it "extra-illegal" just because it happens on a computer. It's the same thing with drug/alcohol use. We already have laws against speeding and driving recklessly. Why should the moving violation be any more severe if you were stoned/drunk/high at the time?
Well, I'm getting a little off topic, so I'll just shut up now.
leave it to a Slashdotter to bring recursion into a discussion about the olympics. Nicely done!
Delay allows time for a person to develop some wisdom, education, and wealth before reproduction
What in the world does the Honorable Representative from Sugarland, Texas have to do with this?
actually, the latest Powerbooks have this capability. There are already a few apps that use this "input device" for things like moving a ball or triggering an alarm. I'm not sure that it would be much good as a pointing device, but it might be fun to try.
Great idea for organists!
Try this Google search. It will lead you to pages like this. It's a good start. It seems to be a little biased in its presentation, but it's the "official" story.
It's not as useful, but this is funnier.
Now there's a sentiment everybody can agree with!
nope. dated 2004
You're joking right? I haven't been able to find any presidential comment on all this video game hoopla. In Congress, it was not just Republicans making a stink about this "sex scandal." The vote was 355-21. In fact, I think Senator Clinton (D-NY) has been one of the most vocal politicians in all of this. It looks to me like the House was just playing catch-up with this absurd FTC request.
One last thing, gas prices aren't that bad. Of course they're rising; demand is increasing, and supply is decreasing. According to any economics theory, that's a recipe for price increases. If you're going to complain about the Bush administration, stick with some of your other arguments.
TSA guy: What's this thing?
cypherz: It's my Airport.
T: No, we're *in* an airport. What's this circuit in your bag?
c: You see, it's my Airport, just without the flying saucer.
T: Of course we don't have any flying saucers, but what is this?
c: I told you, *my* Airport.
T: No, this is *my* airport! [arrests cyphers]
I don't know about the RIAA, but Macrovision is trying to patent hash spoofing and other disruptive technology... or something like that. I didn't RTFP, so I'm not sure.
I'm very surprised that a PT clinic would have an open WiFi network. My wife's clinic is run by a company so afraid of HIPPA regs that they only have one or two computers connected to the Internet and those aren't on the same network as the computers with the patient info. She can't even email or ftp anything to and from the house to work on (like reports and notes). They're very cautious about that sort of thing.
There are seven states in the US with under 1 million people, according to the Census Bureau. Those 14 senators have no excuse. Though I would like to point out that some senators do send personalized letters. My wife got one from our senator regarding some healthcare legislation last year that she had requested support on.
"Judas threw down his money and hanged himself.... Jesus said 'Go thou and do likewise.'"
mwahahaha
nah. just the ones with play buttons. ;-)
leave it to gorbachev to bring up an arms race.
damn commies.
I think the sound card might count as a "music device"