No its not a schools job to teach a person how to live, thats a parents job. Its also not a schools job to teach students about sex, or to teach students good health.
I agree, and I misworded my earlier statement. What I meant was that you certainly learn more from school than just book-knowledge, which is one of the reasons why I think classroom schooling is better than homeschooling. That's another debate. The point here is that you're going to have to deal with "the system" when you leave school, so learning how to play it while you're in school is valuable, although the fact that it is that way certainly does suck.
Asking too many questions, not asking enough questions, theres no way for a student to know how many questions they can ask unless they teacher puts a number on the board "You all have 5 questions you may ask per class"
If there is no msg, you are assuming the student just knows, or is mature enough, has the social skills, etc, well guess what, not everyone student is like that, some have to be given proper instruction on exactly how many questions they must ask per class, this way they dont ask too many.
Oh, come on. If you're interupting class every 2 minutes to ask another random question that is only being asked because you're trying to see if the teacher "knows his shit" then it should be obvious that is just creating a problem. If you honestly didn't understand something, then fine, ask the question. Or if you do understand something, but you want to know a deeper level, then fine, ask the question. But if you're interupting every 2 minutes to ask a question then you're creating a problem and hurting the rest of the class as well.
I'm not going to ask for extra work, I dont enjoy doing paper work. Truth is I wasnt there for the fun, I didnt enjoy doing the work, and there is no way I would go out of my way to get a bigger workload.
Who said anything about paper work? For example, in one of my high school classes (US History) I was really bored because I was able to learn everything just by reading through the book. So I talked to the teacher and asked if I could work on some project or something like that instead of sitting around in class and/or doing the homework. It turned out that I got to create some pretty neat multimedia content that taught me how to use things like Photoshop and Avid Cinema (the express version, this was before iMovie came out) in addition to the actual US History stuff. (Please note that having access to computers and programs like that are not necessary to the idea of what I'm saying, so don't say "well, you guys were obviously lucky enough to have fun software like that.")
You think you are going to teach me you better know your shit, no cheating using the teachers manual, and if you are a substitute I'm going to challenge you even more.
You know, it's entirely unfair to challenge the substitute "even more" than the regular teachers. Usually substitutes are retirees who basically just teach whatever lesson plan the regular teacher gave them. They more than likely don't know very much about the subject matter, but the regular teacher got sick and someone had to fill in.
I mean as a teacher they should know the material better than some kid, they went to college, they are older, wiser, and in theory should be more knowledgeable, teachers who dont know their shit however who sit around eating donuts and drinking coffee piss me off and I deliberately challenged them just to make them think.
Do you really think the best and the brightest go into teaching? Of course not! There are a few really smart teachers out there, but on the whole, the smartest people go where the money and respect are.
You may very well have been smarter than your teachers. But that's no reason to treat them with disrespect.
Finally, if the teachers were really so stupid and arrogant as you say, you were certainly not "mak[ing] them think
Yes but these are kids, and you know as well as I do that while the Adult mind may make the logical decision not to drop out, kids generally have weaker minds and can be convinced they just arent smart enough, or have some mental disorder, etc etc by older wiser adults. Its just like child molestors, the child molestor can easily convince the child that its ok, this doesnt mean it is.
Perhaps, but that still doesn't remove their responsibility. They didn't HAVE to drop out. They may have been convinced it was in their best interest, and that's wrong, but it was still their decision.
Yes but a teacher should never ask a kid a question like that. Did you examine the kids work? How do you know it was not A quality work? Because the teacher said it wasnt?
I had to work with him a couple of times. Believe me, it was not even C quality work.
And yes, it is justified in some cases to ask "why do you bother showing up?" Honestly, if you're showing up and just screwing around, not learning anything and distracting the rest of the class, you need to examine why you're doing that and how you can make it better. If you're going to show up and not accomplish anything, you might as well not show up.
I admit I was not "innocent", I was not a teachers pet, but I did my work and my work was better than most of the class. I'm not even demanding I get all A's, but I certainly dont deserve an F just because the teacher doesnt like me, if my work is at least a B.
You're right about this. A student should get the grade he/she deserves, not something based exclusively on whether the teacher likes them or not.
I'm still skeptical that this happens very often in the extreme that you cite here.
I'm sick of people being judged on a personal level in school, the teacher doesnt like your personality, or how you act so you fail, thats BS. The system sucks, it shouldnt be about who plays within the system better or who conforms better, it should be about your ability to learn.
Yes, to a point. However, school isn't there to just teach you stuff from books. School is also there to teach you how to function in society, and thus, to a degree, it is about who plays the system best. This sucks, but it's true.
The whole "disrupting" class doesnt even make sense, how do you "disrupt" a class? Ask too many questions? Ask questions which make the teacher seem stupid? Ok so the teacher says you "disrupt" the class, so now you start drawing in class, and wasting time, trying not to disrupt the class, guess what, now the teacher says you arent paying attention in class!
If you are crafting your questions to make the teacher look stupid, you have to expect some sort of retribution. The teacher is human too, and they're in a position of power. Secondly, if you're asking questions so often that you really are creating a problem, perhaps a better way of dealing with things would be to talk with the teacher after class about your needs or questions.
Otherwise, you can disrupt the class in any number of ways. Throwing things, talking, etc. I'm sure you can think of more.
And if you're not paying attention in class, then you should try to explain to the teacher (perhaps in that after-class talk) why you're doing it. If you've mastered the material, and you're bored, ask for something extra. Or ask if you can test out of that chapter and do something else. Don't just sit there like you don't care about anything and let the teacher assume that's the case.
You see what I mean? Its a behavior issue, a teacher cannot make you exactly like everyone else so they label you as disrupting the class, and when you stop disrupting the class you get labeled ADD because you dont pay attention.
Why can't you just sit there and pay attention? I agree that might not be much fun but let me tell you, there's a lot of stuff in life that isn't much fun but if you want to get anywhere
If it made business sense for these companies to do that, they would. Obviously some companies are able to sell computers without certain necessary parts (the OS being one of those necessary parts) but if it doesn't make sense for a particular company to do that, then they won't.
This is, most likely, why you can't buy a computer from Dell without a processor. It simply isn't worth it to them to take your money to do that. The same holds true for the operating system.
It might be more profitable to sell 1000 computers with only Windows than 1010 computers with either Windows or Linux or no OS at all. There is additional overhead that occurs when you give the users that choice, and if that overhead is greater than the income gained by the option, then the company will lose money by offering the option. Companies are trying to make a profit, and taking unnecessary or unjustified losses is illogical.
Well, if you're planning on recycling your Windows media and packaging, I'm sure you can take it down to your local recycling center and get your $0.05.
You know, I honestly don't know why people think it should be a guarenteed right to get a computer without an OS. You wouldn't ask Dell to sell you a computer without a processor or a motherboard, would you? An OS is just as necessary as those things, and if Dell (or whatever random company you want to discuss) thought it would be more profitable to sell OS-less computers, they would. (Don't tell me they can't because their contract forbids it. The contract isn't forever, and they signed it voluntarily.)
Well, you're right, those tactics are ridiculous. Still, if you drop out because they are pressuring you to, you're letting them win. Dropping out is not going to make your life better (although transferring to a private school, as you said you did, probably will), and so it still isn't a logical solution.
However, I do remember a few situations where a kid really was consistantly being an ass, or disrupting class, and was NOT turning in "A quality work." The teacher did start asking the kid why he bothered showing up and the kid did get kicked out of the class every now and again.
Why do I bring this up? Because I think it's most likely that the situations where teachers resort to tactics like this are not entirely the teachers' fault. My dad always told my siblings and me that "it takes two to tango." People have to take some responsibility for their situation; very rarely will stuff like this happen just because you're sitting there minding your own business and doing the required work.
That said, I must have been "VERY VERY lucky" because no, I really haven't had to deal with those sorts of problems. On is it because I knew how to play within the system, and so I didn't run afoul of the system's rules? I dunno. It could be either, I guess.
I don't think I said anything about my going to an inner city school. I attended a small school district, but that's besides the point.
Did those people you know have to drop out? If so, why? If not, why did they drop out?
It's pretty rare that someone has to drop out. Those schools may suck, but the people who are dropping out have to take responsibility themselves, as well.
The system may suck, but if you want to be successful, you have to work with the system. No student is going to change anything while they're in school by not doing their homework or causing trouble.
The parent didn't say "get" it for free, it said "give" it for free. I think that's a good point; after all, you couldn't get a refund for the 2nd bottle of soda you get in the "buy one get one free" special at the grocery store, so why would you get a refund for the free copy of Windows that came with your computer?
I went to a little podunk school district out in the middle of nowhere. It wasn't really nice, but it must have been relatively high quality, since I never really had any of the problems people are bitching about on here.
Maybe we were just the exception, but it still kinda irks me whenever I see people play the class card in school discussions. There were lots of poor (dare I say low-class?) people with whom I went to school, but we did pretty well. It makes me think others could do it too, but you can draw your own conclusions.
Yeah... thus creating a self-fulfilling prophecy, eh?
It was that way at my school, too. I don't understand a number of those policies. And since my dad was the school board president, we had a number of heated debates about them.
Yeah, but India is in the Commonwealth of Nations. If we're talking Americans working there, it might be a different story than British subjects. Of course, IANAIIO (Indian Immigration Officer) nor have I actually done any research into Indian immigration rules.
If you skipped a grade and were fine, you either were pushed ahead in the 60s when schools still had disciplinary control, OR you were in a rich neighborhood to begin with that had well-paid teachers and lots of money to throw in to the school system, not to mention a low ratio of bused-in inner city brats whose parents didn't care what they did.
Ha. I went to a rural public school which was pretty much dirt poor. Oh, and I'm a junior in college (University of Illinois), which means I was pushed ahead in 1989 (I skipped first grade) and was in high school from 1998-2001.
Obviously I had a low ratio of bussed in inner-city kids, but that doesn't mean the parents in my area cared what their kids did. Some did, of course, but there were a lot of people who were seriously messed up.
The social dynamic in my school was not really based on who could beat up whom. I was lucky in that I'm a pretty big guy. However, when you're a big freshman there are still bigger seniors. You just have to be able to win their respect somehow.
I'm not trying to say that some people don't have bad experiences. I am, however, saying that you shouldn't just give up on public schools, and you shouldn't generalize and say "it can't be done, go somewhere else."
Whatever. I skipped a grade ahead and was fine. I had some troubles during middle school, but who doesn't? You're right about the curve breaking but if you teach the kid some social skills then they'll probably be alright.
You can't make sweeping generalizations about something like that. Each case is different.
He tried to reauthorize the songs after his billing address has changed to outside the US. If you have a US address, you're fine, no matter where your computer sits. How do I know? I studied in Ireland during the last school year, and I downloaded a number of songs from iTMS, using my US-based credit card with my US-based address.
The moral? The license agreement says you aren't to export the songs. This has nothing to do with DRM - it would still be a breach of contract (thus revoking your license to use the songs) to export the songs even if iTMS was giving you straight MP3s.
Actually, around where I live (Quad Cities, Illinois/Iowa), while the policy is "no bags," they don't seem to mind you carrying in your own food and drink. I know my friends and I always hit the gas station across the street for soda and candy before going to the theatre. It's ridiculously cheaper.
It is possible that I misinterpreted what he wrote. I assumed that by using the word "draconian" he was implying that not only are the rules strict, they are somehow bad. I agree with your point about only giving the collectors necessary information.
That's why the IRS labors under such draconian laws concerning data privacy. Hell, take a look at a tax return that you don't need to and you're instantly fired from the IRS.
You act as if this is a bad thing. IRS employees shouldn't be looking at tax returns they don't need to look at. The IRS (or whoever starts collecting those tax debts, to keep this on-thread-topic) should be operating with the highest standards
Re:Maybe check your search results again...
on
Digging Holes in Google
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· Score: 1, Insightful
You dumbass... learn to read.
you have to troll through a couple pages of results before you get anything not directly related to Apple Computer
The article says that you have to dig through 50 results to get to the first one relating to fruit. Not computers.
Of course, the simple solution would be to search for "apple fruit" instead of simply "apple." But that's far too obvious, isn't it?
Wow. I drove a 92 Plymouth Grand Voyager for a number of years, so I know exactly what reservoirs you're talking about. Those people who thought they were for their blinkers must have been complete idiots. Wow.
I didn't say that's how it actually happens, but really, the people in charge should be considering long-term effects as well as the short and medium term. In an ideal world, anyway.
You're right, though, because the way things are set up right now it's pretty hard for officers to convince shareholders to go in for long-term projects. The economy would probably be in better shape if more people thought about this.
Slashdot Mirror
So if it doesn't run on OSX, what good is it to current iPhoto users?
No its not a schools job to teach a person how to live, thats a parents job. Its also not a schools job to teach students about sex, or to teach students good health.
I agree, and I misworded my earlier statement. What I meant was that you certainly learn more from school than just book-knowledge, which is one of the reasons why I think classroom schooling is better than homeschooling. That's another debate. The point here is that you're going to have to deal with "the system" when you leave school, so learning how to play it while you're in school is valuable, although the fact that it is that way certainly does suck.
Asking too many questions, not asking enough questions, theres no way for a student to know how many questions they can ask unless they teacher puts a number on the board "You all have 5 questions you may ask per class"
If there is no msg, you are assuming the student just knows, or is mature enough, has the social skills, etc, well guess what, not everyone student is like that, some have to be given proper instruction on exactly how many questions they must ask per class, this way they dont ask too many.
Oh, come on. If you're interupting class every 2 minutes to ask another random question that is only being asked because you're trying to see if the teacher "knows his shit" then it should be obvious that is just creating a problem. If you honestly didn't understand something, then fine, ask the question. Or if you do understand something, but you want to know a deeper level, then fine, ask the question. But if you're interupting every 2 minutes to ask a question then you're creating a problem and hurting the rest of the class as well.
I'm not going to ask for extra work, I dont enjoy doing paper work. Truth is I wasnt there for the fun, I didnt enjoy doing the work, and there is no way I would go out of my way to get a bigger workload.
Who said anything about paper work? For example, in one of my high school classes (US History) I was really bored because I was able to learn everything just by reading through the book. So I talked to the teacher and asked if I could work on some project or something like that instead of sitting around in class and/or doing the homework. It turned out that I got to create some pretty neat multimedia content that taught me how to use things like Photoshop and Avid Cinema (the express version, this was before iMovie came out) in addition to the actual US History stuff. (Please note that having access to computers and programs like that are not necessary to the idea of what I'm saying, so don't say "well, you guys were obviously lucky enough to have fun software like that.")
You think you are going to teach me you better know your shit, no cheating using the teachers manual, and if you are a substitute I'm going to challenge you even more.
You know, it's entirely unfair to challenge the substitute "even more" than the regular teachers. Usually substitutes are retirees who basically just teach whatever lesson plan the regular teacher gave them. They more than likely don't know very much about the subject matter, but the regular teacher got sick and someone had to fill in.
I mean as a teacher they should know the material better than some kid, they went to college, they are older, wiser, and in theory should be more knowledgeable, teachers who dont know their shit however who sit around eating donuts and drinking coffee piss me off and I deliberately challenged them just to make them think.
Do you really think the best and the brightest go into teaching? Of course not! There are a few really smart teachers out there, but on the whole, the smartest people go where the money and respect are.
You may very well have been smarter than your teachers. But that's no reason to treat them with disrespect.
Finally, if the teachers were really so stupid and arrogant as you say, you were certainly not "mak[ing] them think
Wow. That's unbelievable.
Yes but these are kids, and you know as well as I do that while the Adult mind may make the logical decision not to drop out, kids generally have weaker minds and can be convinced they just arent smart enough, or have some mental disorder, etc etc by older wiser adults. Its just like child molestors, the child molestor can easily convince the child that its ok, this doesnt mean it is.
Perhaps, but that still doesn't remove their responsibility. They didn't HAVE to drop out. They may have been convinced it was in their best interest, and that's wrong, but it was still their decision.
Yes but a teacher should never ask a kid a question like that. Did you examine the kids work? How do you know it was not A quality work? Because the teacher said it wasnt?
I had to work with him a couple of times. Believe me, it was not even C quality work.
And yes, it is justified in some cases to ask "why do you bother showing up?" Honestly, if you're showing up and just screwing around, not learning anything and distracting the rest of the class, you need to examine why you're doing that and how you can make it better. If you're going to show up and not accomplish anything, you might as well not show up.
I admit I was not "innocent", I was not a teachers pet, but I did my work and my work was better than most of the class. I'm not even demanding I get all A's, but I certainly dont deserve an F just because the teacher doesnt like me, if my work is at least a B.
You're right about this. A student should get the grade he/she deserves, not something based exclusively on whether the teacher likes them or not.
I'm still skeptical that this happens very often in the extreme that you cite here.
I'm sick of people being judged on a personal level in school, the teacher doesnt like your personality, or how you act so you fail, thats BS. The system sucks, it shouldnt be about who plays within the system better or who conforms better, it should be about your ability to learn.
Yes, to a point. However, school isn't there to just teach you stuff from books. School is also there to teach you how to function in society, and thus, to a degree, it is about who plays the system best. This sucks, but it's true.
The whole "disrupting" class doesnt even make sense, how do you "disrupt" a class? Ask too many questions? Ask questions which make the teacher seem stupid? Ok so the teacher says you "disrupt" the class, so now you start drawing in class, and wasting time, trying not to disrupt the class, guess what, now the teacher says you arent paying attention in class!
If you are crafting your questions to make the teacher look stupid, you have to expect some sort of retribution. The teacher is human too, and they're in a position of power. Secondly, if you're asking questions so often that you really are creating a problem, perhaps a better way of dealing with things would be to talk with the teacher after class about your needs or questions.
Otherwise, you can disrupt the class in any number of ways. Throwing things, talking, etc. I'm sure you can think of more.
And if you're not paying attention in class, then you should try to explain to the teacher (perhaps in that after-class talk) why you're doing it. If you've mastered the material, and you're bored, ask for something extra. Or ask if you can test out of that chapter and do something else. Don't just sit there like you don't care about anything and let the teacher assume that's the case.
You see what I mean? Its a behavior issue, a teacher cannot make you exactly like everyone else so they label you as disrupting the class, and when you stop disrupting the class you get labeled ADD because you dont pay attention.
Why can't you just sit there and pay attention? I agree that might not be much fun but let me tell you, there's a lot of stuff in life that isn't much fun but if you want to get anywhere
If it made business sense for these companies to do that, they would. Obviously some companies are able to sell computers without certain necessary parts (the OS being one of those necessary parts) but if it doesn't make sense for a particular company to do that, then they won't.
This is, most likely, why you can't buy a computer from Dell without a processor. It simply isn't worth it to them to take your money to do that. The same holds true for the operating system.
It might be more profitable to sell 1000 computers with only Windows than 1010 computers with either Windows or Linux or no OS at all. There is additional overhead that occurs when you give the users that choice, and if that overhead is greater than the income gained by the option, then the company will lose money by offering the option. Companies are trying to make a profit, and taking unnecessary or unjustified losses is illogical.
Well, if you're planning on recycling your Windows media and packaging, I'm sure you can take it down to your local recycling center and get your $0.05.
You know, I honestly don't know why people think it should be a guarenteed right to get a computer without an OS. You wouldn't ask Dell to sell you a computer without a processor or a motherboard, would you? An OS is just as necessary as those things, and if Dell (or whatever random company you want to discuss) thought it would be more profitable to sell OS-less computers, they would. (Don't tell me they can't because their contract forbids it. The contract isn't forever, and they signed it voluntarily.)
Well, you're right, those tactics are ridiculous. Still, if you drop out because they are pressuring you to, you're letting them win. Dropping out is not going to make your life better (although transferring to a private school, as you said you did, probably will), and so it still isn't a logical solution.
However, I do remember a few situations where a kid really was consistantly being an ass, or disrupting class, and was NOT turning in "A quality work." The teacher did start asking the kid why he bothered showing up and the kid did get kicked out of the class every now and again.
Why do I bring this up? Because I think it's most likely that the situations where teachers resort to tactics like this are not entirely the teachers' fault. My dad always told my siblings and me that "it takes two to tango." People have to take some responsibility for their situation; very rarely will stuff like this happen just because you're sitting there minding your own business and doing the required work.
That said, I must have been "VERY VERY lucky" because no, I really haven't had to deal with those sorts of problems. On is it because I knew how to play within the system, and so I didn't run afoul of the system's rules? I dunno. It could be either, I guess.
I don't think I said anything about my going to an inner city school. I attended a small school district, but that's besides the point.
Did those people you know have to drop out? If so, why? If not, why did they drop out?
It's pretty rare that someone has to drop out. Those schools may suck, but the people who are dropping out have to take responsibility themselves, as well.
The system may suck, but if you want to be successful, you have to work with the system. No student is going to change anything while they're in school by not doing their homework or causing trouble.
The parent didn't say "get" it for free, it said "give" it for free. I think that's a good point; after all, you couldn't get a refund for the 2nd bottle of soda you get in the "buy one get one free" special at the grocery store, so why would you get a refund for the free copy of Windows that came with your computer?
I went to a little podunk school district out in the middle of nowhere. It wasn't really nice, but it must have been relatively high quality, since I never really had any of the problems people are bitching about on here.
Maybe we were just the exception, but it still kinda irks me whenever I see people play the class card in school discussions. There were lots of poor (dare I say low-class?) people with whom I went to school, but we did pretty well. It makes me think others could do it too, but you can draw your own conclusions.
Your parents thought you were faking it? You couldn't go to the doctor and give them proof? Or were they just dicks?
My god. If it's the latter, I have to say, it's parents like that which really hurt any effort a good teacher might try to make.
Yeah... thus creating a self-fulfilling prophecy, eh?
It was that way at my school, too. I don't understand a number of those policies. And since my dad was the school board president, we had a number of heated debates about them.
Yeah, but India is in the Commonwealth of Nations. If we're talking Americans working there, it might be a different story than British subjects. Of course, IANAIIO (Indian Immigration Officer) nor have I actually done any research into Indian immigration rules.
Ha. I went to a rural public school which was pretty much dirt poor. Oh, and I'm a junior in college (University of Illinois), which means I was pushed ahead in 1989 (I skipped first grade) and was in high school from 1998-2001.
Obviously I had a low ratio of bussed in inner-city kids, but that doesn't mean the parents in my area cared what their kids did. Some did, of course, but there were a lot of people who were seriously messed up.
The social dynamic in my school was not really based on who could beat up whom. I was lucky in that I'm a pretty big guy. However, when you're a big freshman there are still bigger seniors. You just have to be able to win their respect somehow.
I'm not trying to say that some people don't have bad experiences. I am, however, saying that you shouldn't just give up on public schools, and you shouldn't generalize and say "it can't be done, go somewhere else."
Whatever. I skipped a grade ahead and was fine. I had some troubles during middle school, but who doesn't? You're right about the curve breaking but if you teach the kid some social skills then they'll probably be alright.
You can't make sweeping generalizations about something like that. Each case is different.
He tried to reauthorize the songs after his billing address has changed to outside the US. If you have a US address, you're fine, no matter where your computer sits. How do I know? I studied in Ireland during the last school year, and I downloaded a number of songs from iTMS, using my US-based credit card with my US-based address.
The moral? The license agreement says you aren't to export the songs. This has nothing to do with DRM - it would still be a breach of contract (thus revoking your license to use the songs) to export the songs even if iTMS was giving you straight MP3s.
Actually, around where I live (Quad Cities, Illinois/Iowa), while the policy is "no bags," they don't seem to mind you carrying in your own food and drink. I know my friends and I always hit the gas station across the street for soda and candy before going to the theatre. It's ridiculously cheaper.
It is possible that I misinterpreted what he wrote. I assumed that by using the word "draconian" he was implying that not only are the rules strict, they are somehow bad. I agree with your point about only giving the collectors necessary information.
You dumbass... learn to read.
The article says that you have to dig through 50 results to get to the first one relating to fruit. Not computers.
Of course, the simple solution would be to search for "apple fruit" instead of simply "apple." But that's far too obvious, isn't it?
Wow. I drove a 92 Plymouth Grand Voyager for a number of years, so I know exactly what reservoirs you're talking about. Those people who thought they were for their blinkers must have been complete idiots. Wow.
My guess is that you used those credit cards to buy some hardware of Japanese origin, and that hardware runs TRON in some way.
I didn't say that's how it actually happens, but really, the people in charge should be considering long-term effects as well as the short and medium term. In an ideal world, anyway.
You're right, though, because the way things are set up right now it's pretty hard for officers to convince shareholders to go in for long-term projects. The economy would probably be in better shape if more people thought about this.
That isn't going to maximize their profits in the long term.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Heh, look at this, harmony and understanding on slashdot. :)