I think we're pretty much in the same page here, just nit-picking.
By "building the bridge", I don't mean get out there with a shovel or operate the equipment, but rather understand how things are put together in the field - which is often different than envisioned at the drafting table. Many design systems today help designers ensure that things designed can actually be assembled, but actually watching is a helpful experience and educational...
My original point was that "more educated" does not necessarily mean "more intelligent" and I provided an example. As for, "experience almost always trumps education - something many of the fresh-from-school don't grasp" -- the last part is my focus. I've met quite a few recent graduates, who think they're hot-shots (or, at least better than the "old guys"), who flounder because they've never actually used or developed anything in the real world.
Perhaps my point should be that experience tempers education.
He didn't say why they were more intelligent; he just said they were.
Thanks and, you're right, it's most often true. But my initial reply was, "not necessarily more intelligent. The two are not always related." Which is also true.
Hell, based on the research code I've seen, you should count yourself lucky if the machine doesn't explode when he hits "compile"... (Research code is a very different thing from production code.)
Again, often true. But when I was an undergraduate research assistant back in 1985-87 on a project exploring automated analysis and direct execution of abstract data types in LISP and PROLOG, my code was solid. Of course, I spent many a looong night making it so. Perhaps it didn't have to be so well done, but NASA was funding it and I was young and enthusiastic:-)
Attempted murder is a crime because some legislature passed a law criminalizing it.
Although, an actual attempt has to take place (and presumably fail) in this case, otherwise you're talking about something else. Simply thinking about killing someone (and in many cases even threatening) isn't a crime. Otherwise, we'd *all* be in trouble:-)
He didn't say they were better programmers; he said they were smarter.
Actaully, he said they were more "intelligent" - dude, it's right there in the quote:-)
But I did understand what he was saying and I still maintain that "more educated" doesn't mean "more intelligent". Lots of intelligent people don't get advanced degrees and lots of Masters / PhD grads aren't that intelligent (hopefully, "lots" is an exaggeration here:-)
Case in point. Back in 1996, I had an SGI Indigo on my desk, this other guy (with a MSCS) had a Sun SPARC2. I was running some cool IRIX app and he asked if he could run it on his system too. I said, "sorry I only have a binary." He said, "so?" I said, "Umm, mine's an SGI and yours is a Sun." He said, "so?" I looked at him and said, "SGI, Sun...? IRIX, Solaris...? MIPS, SPARC...?" He finally blinked and said, "oh ya, different OSes".
He later went on to be a DBA at his University.
I agree with you that the focus and training at the Undergrad, Graduate and PhD levels is different and that a PhD "should" be an intelligent person working at the theory level, but sometimes they're just chimps with initials after their names.
And, yes, we did have a PhD who liked to write bad, bad, unmaintainable, overly-complex, undocumented, incomplete and broken code. He doesn't work for us any more. I think he started his own company.
Yes, you did. It means to "excel, surpass, outdo", not "replace". Get a dictionary:-) [ Note smiley face, I'm not trying to be bitchy. ]
So you want a bridge designer to build the bridge he designed? You're neglecting specialization entirely, on which all modern economies are based.
No he doesn't have to actually build the bridge, though it wouldn't hurt to go through the process at least once, but he should have a good understanding of what will be involved or required to actually build what's been designed. In reality, I think designers are involved in many build processes to handle any unexpected things and/or required changes.
Entrepreneurs have come up with far more solutions to problems than Nasa ever can or will.
Actually, some of those things were developed outside NASA, like the Fisher Space Pen, but inspired by/for the Space Program, but since you believe that Entrepreneurs are the only way to go, I guess the discussion's over. Too bad we can't have both.
How can we be sure that the whole "Humans need somewhere other than Earth to live if we are going to prevent ourselves from dying out" argument is not just pseudo-scientific technobabble?
Dude. The Sun will burn out in about 5 billion years. If we don't start pushing Space Exploration now, we'll never get the funding through Congress.
The 16 Billion NASA gets is.01% of the 1.6 Trillion that goes into Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid every year. Funding space exploration at this bargain-basement budget level should be a no brainer.
*sigh* 1%
Dude. Don't beat yourself up. It's just math, not rocket science.:-)
I agree with your assertion though.
You're simply assuming individuals working together voluntarily wouldn't be able to come up with equal (or more) benefits than NASA provides.
I would offer that space exploration requires solutions to problems that wouldn't otherwise exist and/or be known - as with any untried or unimagined thing. Solving these problems has benefits here.
Sure we probably would have eventually invented: TV Satelite Dishes, Medical Imagers, Ear Thermometers, Vision Screening tests, Fire Fighter Equipment, Smoke Detectors, Sun Tiger Glasses, CAD, Invisible Braces (for teeth), Edible Toothpaste, Joystick Controllers and Advanced Plastics, and other things. But they were originally developed for the Space Program.
What's the right way to build a bridge? Just build it the same way you built the last bridge? Or should you actually perform the calculations and determine what will stand up to the new conditions at the new site?
You're confusing designing a bridge with building a bridge.
I didn't say that experience replaces education. And you're correct that one without the other is generally not enough for the tasks of today. But I stand by my comment that, in the context of the original post and my initial reply that more educated != more intelligent, my experience is that PhDs (or those fresh from school) don't necessarily write better code, despite their more advanced or more current education.
In concert to my point I ask: "How many times have you worked on something and wondered if the person who designed it actually ever worked on it? Because if they had, they would have designed it differently." And I assert: "People who design things should be *forced* to work on them!"
I first thought about the above back in high school while replacing a VW Beetle engine and cursing the person who put various bolts where they were almost impossible to reach and manipulate.
PhDs are actually really easy to manage if you aren't intimidated by managing people who are more intelligent than you.
More *educated* to be sure, but not necessarily more intelligent. The two are not always related.
I have fixed and re-written many a PhD's overly-complex and/or poorly-written code using only my little BSCS (and 20+ years experience). In fact, I would hazard a guess that experience almost always trumps education - something many of the fresh-from-school don't grasp.
We had a few fresh from school hired as Junior Software Engineers who generally needed assistance with their tasks, most notably debugging and analysis. Still, after only a month, they wanted to know when they would be promoted to "Senior" and get raises, etc...
I offered that it might be when they didn't need a Senior person assisting them to complete their work. Sadly, I'm not sure they really understood what I was implying and the demonstrable difference between Junior and Senior.
They thought they were entitled without having to actually earn and/or prove anything - sigh.
Based on reading the article, it looks like most of the changes being made are not changes to the license itself, but to the process of obtaining them.
And... your license information will be stored in a central Federal database. And... checked against that database when you travel by air/rail or enter federal buildings.
As a final note to this, in my experience most average or poor programmers start programming at university, for their Computer Science course. Most good programmers started programming long before, and the degree was just a natural continuation of their hobby.
Ya, for families that could afford it. Maybe this is less relevant now, but I didn't have a computer back in the day (nor did my high school, unless you count a paper terminal and connection via dial-up) and had to wait until university to start programming in ernest.
Slashdot Mirror
When it's done on purpose, which is, unfortunately, too often.
Works for water, but not so much for my Chicken and Noodle soup...
How about "it"? Too impersonal?
Will I get better mileage with a human/animal hybrid than a gas/electric?
circuits from layers of metal only a few nanometers thick
Hmm... A lens containing microscopic pieces of metal next to my cornea.
What could go wrong?
... shutdown /. for a few days. What the hell would I do all day - work? I'm getting creeped out just thinking about it.
By "building the bridge", I don't mean get out there with a shovel or operate the equipment, but rather understand how things are put together in the field - which is often different than envisioned at the drafting table. Many design systems today help designers ensure that things designed can actually be assembled, but actually watching is a helpful experience and educational...
My original point was that "more educated" does not necessarily mean "more intelligent" and I provided an example. As for, "experience almost always trumps education - something many of the fresh-from-school don't grasp" -- the last part is my focus. I've met quite a few recent graduates, who think they're hot-shots (or, at least better than the "old guys"), who flounder because they've never actually used or developed anything in the real world.
Perhaps my point should be that experience tempers education.
Thanks and, you're right, it's most often true. But my initial reply was, "not necessarily more intelligent. The two are not always related." Which is also true.
Hell, based on the research code I've seen, you should count yourself lucky if the machine doesn't explode when he hits "compile"... (Research code is a very different thing from production code.)
Again, often true. But when I was an undergraduate research assistant back in 1985-87 on a project exploring automated analysis and direct execution of abstract data types in LISP and PROLOG, my code was solid. Of course, I spent many a looong night making it so. Perhaps it didn't have to be so well done, but NASA was funding it and I was young and enthusiastic :-)
Caffeine too from coffee, though I'm not sure how I'd order that at Starbucks. Definitely wouldn't be a "no-whip".
Why yes, yes I do. I'm guessing that's a third-date sort of thing?
Although, an actual attempt has to take place (and presumably fail) in this case, otherwise you're talking about something else. Simply thinking about killing someone (and in many cases even threatening) isn't a crime. Otherwise, we'd *all* be in trouble :-)
Actaully, he said they were more "intelligent" - dude, it's right there in the quote :-)
But I did understand what he was saying and I still maintain that "more educated" doesn't mean "more intelligent". Lots of intelligent people don't get advanced degrees and lots of Masters / PhD grads aren't that intelligent (hopefully, "lots" is an exaggeration here :-)
Case in point. Back in 1996, I had an SGI Indigo on my desk, this other guy (with a MSCS) had a Sun SPARC2. I was running some cool IRIX app and he asked if he could run it on his system too. I said, "sorry I only have a binary." He said, "so?" I said, "Umm, mine's an SGI and yours is a Sun." He said, "so?" I looked at him and said, "SGI, Sun...? IRIX, Solaris...? MIPS, SPARC...?" He finally blinked and said, "oh ya, different OSes".
He later went on to be a DBA at his University.
I agree with you that the focus and training at the Undergrad, Graduate and PhD levels is different and that a PhD "should" be an intelligent person working at the theory level, but sometimes they're just chimps with initials after their names.
And, yes, we did have a PhD who liked to write bad, bad, unmaintainable, overly-complex, undocumented, incomplete and broken code. He doesn't work for us any more. I think he started his own company.
Yes, you did. It means to "excel, surpass, outdo", not "replace". Get a dictionary :-) [ Note smiley face, I'm not trying to be bitchy. ]
So you want a bridge designer to build the bridge he designed? You're neglecting specialization entirely, on which all modern economies are based.
No he doesn't have to actually build the bridge, though it wouldn't hurt to go through the process at least once, but he should have a good understanding of what will be involved or required to actually build what's been designed. In reality, I think designers are involved in many build processes to handle any unexpected things and/or required changes.
Actually, some of those things were developed outside NASA, like the Fisher Space Pen, but inspired by/for the Space Program, but since you believe that Entrepreneurs are the only way to go, I guess the discussion's over. Too bad we can't have both.
Dude. The Sun will burn out in about 5 billion years. If we don't start pushing Space Exploration now, we'll never get the funding through Congress.
I agree with your assertion though.
I would offer that space exploration requires solutions to problems that wouldn't otherwise exist and/or be known - as with any untried or unimagined thing. Solving these problems has benefits here.
Sure we probably would have eventually invented: TV Satelite Dishes, Medical Imagers, Ear Thermometers, Vision Screening tests, Fire Fighter Equipment, Smoke Detectors, Sun Tiger Glasses, CAD, Invisible Braces (for teeth), Edible Toothpaste, Joystick Controllers and Advanced Plastics, and other things. But they were originally developed for the Space Program.
Well, that explains the dementia. Now put down the TV remote, and stop yelling at the microwave oven.
You're confusing designing a bridge with building a bridge.
I didn't say that experience replaces education. And you're correct that one without the other is generally not enough for the tasks of today. But I stand by my comment that, in the context of the original post and my initial reply that more educated != more intelligent, my experience is that PhDs (or those fresh from school) don't necessarily write better code, despite their more advanced or more current education.
In concert to my point I ask: "How many times have you worked on something and wondered if the person who designed it actually ever worked on it? Because if they had, they would have designed it differently." And I assert: "People who design things should be *forced* to work on them!"
I first thought about the above back in high school while replacing a VW Beetle engine and cursing the person who put various bolts where they were almost impossible to reach and manipulate.
More *educated* to be sure, but not necessarily more intelligent. The two are not always related.
I have fixed and re-written many a PhD's overly-complex and/or poorly-written code using only my little BSCS (and 20+ years experience). In fact, I would hazard a guess that experience almost always trumps education - something many of the fresh-from-school don't grasp.
I offered that it might be when they didn't need a Senior person assisting them to complete their work. Sadly, I'm not sure they really understood what I was implying and the demonstrable difference between Junior and Senior.
They thought they were entitled without having to actually earn and/or prove anything - sigh.
And... your license information will be stored in a central Federal database. And... checked against that database when you travel by air/rail or enter federal buildings.
TFA says that everyone (even over 50) must have the new ID by 2017.
Ya, for families that could afford it. Maybe this is less relevant now, but I didn't have a computer back in the day (nor did my high school, unless you count a paper terminal and connection via dial-up) and had to wait until university to start programming in ernest.
I'm still waiting for that on *my* system.