"Instead of standing around saying "WTB - Uber Dragonslayer sword of insight" I could go and post a quest saying "1,000g to the first adventurer to bring me an Uber Dragonslayer sword of insight" and let bored/enterprising adventurers fulfill my request."
Don't most MMOGs have forum marketplaces for this exact thing? You post what you want and the price you'll pay, and you can either monitor the forums, or give your userID for people to whisper you in game.
Sure, it's not an official quest, but it amounts to the same, no?
"For whatever problem you have, and then attach the word "online" to it, just strip off that "online" word, and attack the problem."
You are right, for the most part, except that one way of attacking an addiction is to prevent access to whatever you're addicted to. The internet is an enabler of the behaviors that some people are addicted to, and they have a hard time quitting when they are constantly 'offered' access to that behavior.
So, if the internet is the primary source of access for an addict, then they will probably need to get away from the internet in order to stop the addiction.
Well, I think the problem is not that people are posting with uninformed positions -- the problem is that other uninformed people are moderating them up. This is what the overrated mod is for.
The thing that needs to be done is to address the misinformation in a reply, which will hopefully be modded up.
My solution? Read at +3, unless I wanna see a whole thread. If somoeone's full of it, and still gets modded up, I check my facts and then respond.
Sorry to get picky, but I wasn't joking about the OCD. And yes, a disease is treated differently than an injury as an object of the verb to cure. If you want to use 'an injury' as the object of your verb, you should use to heal.
"The Guardian has an article on how nose cells may cure spinal injuries."
"Bedivere, tell me again how sheep's bladders may be used to prevent earthquakes."
OCD's acting up on me today, so I must point out: One cannot 'cure' an injury. You can cure a disease, you can cure yourself of an injury, but you cannot cure an injury... unless you intend to bring the injury back to health.
Well, first, slashdot isn't the most appropriate place for this.
Re: slamming of systems, that's why we have moderation... it's not a perfect system, but I think it works well enough.
Unfortunately, there's just too much involved to be able to tell someone to RTFM for social/political/economic systems, and expect that it would do any good.
Most of the people slamming certain systems are just trolls, and don't want to learn.
Umm, the categories you mention are not mutually exclusive... you mix political systems, economic systems, socioeconomic classes.
Also, these are systems, individual actions cannot be 'categorized' as belonging to a particular system, without viewing them in context of each system.
"It's time we had this whole capitalism, communism, socialism, democracy, totalitarianism, aristocracy, imperialism thing hashed out once and for all, or at least a good start on it."
So, you think that a bunch of one-off posts in/. is going to be able to cover centuries worth of political and economic theory, along with modern applications of the relevant theory, with examples?
" Atari was huge. Over it's lifetime the Atari 2600 shipped a total of 25 million units. That's hardly a nascent market."
Actually, that's exactly what a nascent market is. When the 2600 was released, the market was tiny, with tons of potential for growth.
At the time of the bust in 83, the market was no longer nascent -- growth of the market would no longer carry sales. The industry needed to adapt well or go bust, and we know which happened:).
But, the console game industry is changing -- like subscription-based revenues becoming a factor, and like the examples you pointed out. One of my points is that since the game market is pretty well developed, industry competitors are better placed to avoid the kind of bust that happened then.
You're right, the major target demographic is not kids... nor is it 28-35 year olds.
1) the target demographic is not necessarily the purchasing demographic -- people buy games for their kids. This is going to shift the average purchaser age up by a lot.
2) according to your sources, the average gamer age is 27 -- which still lies below the range where you assign the target demographic.
I agree that the kids demographic is not the major target of a lot of games, but 28-35 is quite a bit high...
Also, one of your sources is justa chop of another of your sources.
If you read the article from the economist, you'll see that 61% of gamers are adults... being 18+. If you look at the ESA figures, 18-49 year-olds make up 43% of the game-playing population, 35% is under 18 -- and that's for all games. For consoles, the largest demographic is under 18. For PCs, the largest demographic is over 35. http://www.theesa.com/facts/gamer_data.php
I'm not disagreeing with your statement that a lot of games are not being developed for the sub-adult population. But saying that 28-35 is the target demo, well, that's plain wrong.
This doesn't include other hardware that shipped with the PS1, and it's probably a little above average (but 8-player FIFA was pretty fun).
Over the life of my PS2 (so far) I have bought:
(2) controllers
(3) memory cards
I didn't bother purchasing the hard drive or network adapter, and this is probably around average.
So, including the units themselves, and not including additional hardware shipped with the base units, I've purchased 17 pieces of Sony hardware... from Sony. This doesn't include the knockoff disposable controllers and cord extenders I bought and cannibalized after they broke.
So, 1.86bn pieces of hardware seems pretty darn attainable.
"A little kid cannot go and purchase Scarface at the media store, so why should he be able to get GTA:SA?"
Legally, he can go purchase Scarface at a store. The MPAA rating system is voluntary, just like the ESRB. The difference is that many parents are not as aware of (~concerned about?) adult content in games as they are of adult content in movies.
This is compounded when the ESRB ratings are not accurate -- and according to whose definition they are established (i.e., is Hot Coffee part of GTA:SA, or not?).
"Now, if this starts to regulate content - I'm fighting tooth and nail."
It will regulate content, whether directly or indirectly. Consumer pressure will be enough to get adult-themed games off the shelves in mass retail shops, which means that no one will develop those games.
"The major target of video game companies are 28-35 year old's"
Not true, you've got to shift that range lower considerably. A quick Google of video game market demographics will help you clear that up.
From an AC developer in a linked article in TFA: "In English, that means if an open-source group agreed to use the license (never gonna happen) and built an application with it, they can NOT provide the source code for it with the license. If you write code with a license, you can NOT share that code with me unless I go get a license, too. Pretty much against everything open source is about," the developer said.
MS: The ceiling is blue.
Me: Obviously, it is not. It is chartreuse. You said you'd make it blue, but it is still chartreuse. Maybe a slightly different shade of chartreuse, but chartreuse.
MS: No, it's blue. It says it right here in our marketing materials. That color you see is now called blue.
Me: Screw this, I'm going outside, where the sky is really blue, and everyone calls it blue. Whatever you're selling isn't the same as what you're calling it.
"Hopefully Midway will find someone else to finish up the development of RAF, but who knows how reliable that system will be (have fun learning the code).
A former Stainless staffer gives the info... they've shut their doors due to lack of cash. Summary implies Midway pushed the release date, article doesn't say that.
Anyway, once Midway realizes they are 'losing' bundles more by not releasing than the cash advances would cost them, they'll pony up and the game will go back into production.
Or, they'll sell the IP to help offset their losses, and another dev house will take over, hiring many of the people who were working on it under SS.
I suspect that SS is playing the only card they have left, which is to halt production until they get payments.
Midway is not exactly doing well right now, and they can't afford to lose a potentially big revenue stream next year... even if it widens their cash gap this quarter. Funny though, their market cap has tripled over the past six months.
Maybe they'll restart in January, so management can keep this quarter's financials looking not terrible.
Did you even understand wtf the thought police comment is about? It's about pending game content legislation, which if you had any frickin clue about, you'd understand my point. Heaven forbid, a parent needs to be aware of what games their kids are playing.
Plus, if you're going to post like a prick, have the courage to not post as AC.
"the Family Media Guide singles out include some of the ESRB M-rated titles (not buyable by those under the age of 17)"
Anyone can buy a game with an M-rating, unless a store chooses to enforce the ESRB system. It's voluntary, not a legal requirement*. Parents need to be aware of this, and not trust stores/government to police what games their children purchase.
*Yet. May no longer be true in your jurisdiction. Laws pending. Beware the thought police.
"Is the apocalypse nigh? I sure think so. The last one happened at the height of Atari's power, they were invincible, pumping out hit after hit. Pac-Man, ET, Asteroids, movie tie-ins, overflowing arcades and a rabid fan base. They were in the spotlight of the mainstream press, songs making the top 10, and money coming out of their ears. What could go wrong?"
TFA is missing a couple key differences.
(1) Video games are not a nascent market, like they were with the 2600. The biggest market for video games has been playing them their entire life, and have the purchasing power to keep the industry afloat.
(2) PCs and consoles are more ubiquitous in the American home today. The potential market is larger.
I believe that the video game market will not crash. It may not be able to continue in its present form, with tons of high-stakes gambling on low-risk ventures, but the money will be there for the taking... but the terms of competition may change.
If I were a big-time game dev CEO (Ryan, you listening?), I'd be looking at creating an engine that could be used to create many games of different genres & styles... then I'd save on dev costs and be able to focus on content & gameplay. And, be able to license the engine for a long tail.
"That's all, basically the MMO creator just needs a basic storyline with a few warring factions and a big interactive sandbox in which the players can live and play with randome monster placements. They just need to come at it from a new more simplistic angle."
The sandbox idea doesn't work out so well. Turns out that most people willing to fork out cash each month want more content delivered to them... they want to be led and motivated to do stuff. I think that MMOs are far more complex than you give them credit for... and I think the complexity is what drives people to keep shelling out the dough.
"Laziness is slowly making it's way into software companies. Eventually, I use this term loosely as it may take 5 years for anything to happen, people will stop buying games until the developers fix them."
How is this new? Complex PC games have always required patches to work properly (with exceptions, of course). This is not "slowly making its way," it's "rearing its head yet again." The difference is that a major aspect of gameplay is controlled by people outside the publisher, who are being lobbied to make a statement to the publisher about the problems with the game.
"Of course, with a huge advertising budget the companies can always discredit complaints. Unfortunately, I only foresee the lying in advertising getting worse in the near future."
It doesn't matter, if there are alternatives that don't have the problems. People will play the games that they get the best experience out of... they'll buy those games, too. Advertising, especially for a non-commodity item like a FPS game, won't overcome user experience and brand opinion.
"How is it possible to carry on a rational, rhetoric-free debate when even the summary is riddled with such a subjective premise?"
This is not a new thing, most headlines have loaded statements in them. Maybe it's to jumpstart the comment dialogue, maybe there's another reason, I don't know.
But it seems to me that most summaries, particularly about political topics, have a least one trollish statement in them.
That said, it doesn't really matter, as long as there is debate... we can work off the assumption that people reading and posting to slashdot are intelligent enough to take every comment with a grain of salt. Not that people always do, or that they always give fair shake to opposing points of view, but that's the assumption we need to work from.
Is 300 GB necessary? From a content producer standpoint, I don't want to be able to fit that much content on a single disc... then I can't charge as much for the special 4-disc pre-Christmas release edition.
From a consumer standpoint, I don't need this either, unless I want to archive all my files, in which case it's easier (and cheaper) to have a second hard drive.
I understand there is demand for high-volume storage solutions, but I can't see a mass market for them...
What I do see being very, very useful is the speed upgrade for r/w -- especially for gaming, but I'm sure this applies to other areas as well.
IMO, though, I don't see a big enough demand for this to become profitable for quite a long time -- especially if Bluray or HD-DVD is 'good enough' for the average user.
Slashdot Mirror
"Instead of standing around saying "WTB - Uber Dragonslayer sword of insight" I could go and post a quest saying "1,000g to the first adventurer to bring me an Uber Dragonslayer sword of insight" and let bored/enterprising adventurers fulfill my request."
Don't most MMOGs have forum marketplaces for this exact thing? You post what you want and the price you'll pay, and you can either monitor the forums, or give your userID for people to whisper you in game.
Sure, it's not an official quest, but it amounts to the same, no?
"...has partnered with Suntory Ltd. to create what is sure to be gaming's tastiest beverage, Final Fantasy XII Potion"
Well, good luck beating this:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/drinks/2818/
Also in a blue bottle, but maybe not suitable for kids (contains stimulant(s)).
Sorry if it looks like I'm plugging a product, but if there ever was an official drink of gamers (besides the Dew), this is it.
"For whatever problem you have, and then attach the word "online" to it, just strip off that "online" word, and attack the problem."
You are right, for the most part, except that one way of attacking an addiction is to prevent access to whatever you're addicted to. The internet is an enabler of the behaviors that some people are addicted to, and they have a hard time quitting when they are constantly 'offered' access to that behavior.
So, if the internet is the primary source of access for an addict, then they will probably need to get away from the internet in order to stop the addiction.
Well, I think the problem is not that people are posting with uninformed positions -- the problem is that other uninformed people are moderating them up. This is what the overrated mod is for.
The thing that needs to be done is to address the misinformation in a reply, which will hopefully be modded up.
My solution? Read at +3, unless I wanna see a whole thread. If somoeone's full of it, and still gets modded up, I check my facts and then respond.
Sorry to get picky, but I wasn't joking about the OCD. And yes, a disease is treated differently than an injury as an object of the verb to cure. If you want to use 'an injury' as the object of your verb, you should use to heal.
Contextural usage of verbs is important.
"The Guardian has an article on how nose cells may cure spinal injuries."
"Bedivere, tell me again how sheep's bladders may be used to prevent earthquakes."
OCD's acting up on me today, so I must point out: One cannot 'cure' an injury. You can cure a disease, you can cure yourself of an injury, but you cannot cure an injury... unless you intend to bring the injury back to health.
Well, first, slashdot isn't the most appropriate place for this.
Re: slamming of systems, that's why we have moderation... it's not a perfect system, but I think it works well enough.
Unfortunately, there's just too much involved to be able to tell someone to RTFM for social/political/economic systems, and expect that it would do any good.
Most of the people slamming certain systems are just trolls, and don't want to learn.
"I am fine with legal age limits on movies, cigarettes and alcohol, "
Never mind the fact that there are NO legal age limits on movies, other than pornography.
Also, cigarettes and alcohol have demonstrated, provable, adverse effects.
Umm, the categories you mention are not mutually exclusive... you mix political systems, economic systems, socioeconomic classes.
Also, these are systems, individual actions cannot be 'categorized' as belonging to a particular system, without viewing them in context of each system.
I just gotta say, Mediawise's slogan ain't so bad:
"There's only one way to really know what video games your kids are playing
Be MediaWise®.
Watch what your kids watch. "
I don't understand... common sense?
Also, Mediawise's parent organiztion is the one that took extra pains to distance themselves from Jack, for the tactics he uses.
"It's time we had this whole capitalism, communism, socialism, democracy, totalitarianism, aristocracy, imperialism thing hashed out once and for all, or at least a good start on it."
/. is going to be able to cover centuries worth of political and economic theory, along with modern applications of the relevant theory, with examples?
So, you think that a bunch of one-off posts in
Ummm... good luck with that.
Here's a start: http://www.wikipedia.org/
Have fun.
" Atari was huge. Over it's lifetime the Atari 2600 shipped a total of 25 million units. That's hardly a nascent market."
:).
Actually, that's exactly what a nascent market is. When the 2600 was released, the market was tiny, with tons of potential for growth.
At the time of the bust in 83, the market was no longer nascent -- growth of the market would no longer carry sales. The industry needed to adapt well or go bust, and we know which happened
But, the console game industry is changing -- like subscription-based revenues becoming a factor, and like the examples you pointed out. One of my points is that since the game market is pretty well developed, industry competitors are better placed to avoid the kind of bust that happened then.
As you said, though, it may not be enough.
You're right, the major target demographic is not kids... nor is it 28-35 year olds.
1) the target demographic is not necessarily the purchasing demographic -- people buy games for their kids. This is going to shift the average purchaser age up by a lot.
2) according to your sources, the average gamer age is 27 -- which still lies below the range where you assign the target demographic.
I agree that the kids demographic is not the major target of a lot of games, but 28-35 is quite a bit high...
Also, one of your sources is justa chop of another of your sources.
If you read the article from the economist, you'll see that 61% of gamers are adults... being 18+. If you look at the ESA figures, 18-49 year-olds make up 43% of the game-playing population, 35% is under 18 -- and that's for all games. For consoles, the largest demographic is under 18. For PCs, the largest demographic is over 35.
http://www.theesa.com/facts/gamer_data.php
I'm not disagreeing with your statement that a lot of games are not being developed for the sub-adult population. But saying that 28-35 is the target demo, well, that's plain wrong.
Well, over the life of my PS1 I bought:
(4) controllers
(2) multi-taps
(4) memory cards
This doesn't include other hardware that shipped with the PS1, and it's probably a little above average (but 8-player FIFA was pretty fun).
Over the life of my PS2 (so far) I have bought:
(2) controllers
(3) memory cards
I didn't bother purchasing the hard drive or network adapter, and this is probably around average.
So, including the units themselves, and not including additional hardware shipped with the base units, I've purchased 17 pieces of Sony hardware... from Sony. This doesn't include the knockoff disposable controllers and cord extenders I bought and cannibalized after they broke.
So, 1.86bn pieces of hardware seems pretty darn attainable.
"A little kid cannot go and purchase Scarface at the media store, so why should he be able to get GTA:SA?"
Legally, he can go purchase Scarface at a store. The MPAA rating system is voluntary, just like the ESRB. The difference is that many parents are not as aware of (~concerned about?) adult content in games as they are of adult content in movies.
This is compounded when the ESRB ratings are not accurate -- and according to whose definition they are established (i.e., is Hot Coffee part of GTA:SA, or not?).
"Now, if this starts to regulate content - I'm fighting tooth and nail."
It will regulate content, whether directly or indirectly. Consumer pressure will be enough to get adult-themed games off the shelves in mass retail shops, which means that no one will develop those games.
"The major target of video game companies are 28-35 year old's"
Not true, you've got to shift that range lower considerably. A quick Google of video game market demographics will help you clear that up.
From an AC developer in a linked article in TFA: "In English, that means if an open-source group agreed to use the license (never gonna happen) and built an application with it, they can NOT provide the source code for it with the license. If you write code with a license, you can NOT share that code with me unless I go get a license, too. Pretty much against everything open source is about," the developer said.
MS: The ceiling is blue.
Me: Obviously, it is not. It is chartreuse. You said you'd make it blue, but it is still chartreuse. Maybe a slightly different shade of chartreuse, but chartreuse.
MS: No, it's blue. It says it right here in our marketing materials. That color you see is now called blue.
Me: Screw this, I'm going outside, where the sky is really blue, and everyone calls it blue. Whatever you're selling isn't the same as what you're calling it.
"Hopefully Midway will find someone else to finish up the development of RAF, but who knows how reliable that system will be (have fun learning the code).
:)
-a former sssi staffer"
Why? What did you do to it before you left?
A former Stainless staffer gives the info... they've shut their doors due to lack of cash. Summary implies Midway pushed the release date, article doesn't say that.
Anyway, once Midway realizes they are 'losing' bundles more by not releasing than the cash advances would cost them, they'll pony up and the game will go back into production.
Or, they'll sell the IP to help offset their losses, and another dev house will take over, hiring many of the people who were working on it under SS.
I suspect that SS is playing the only card they have left, which is to halt production until they get payments.
Midway is not exactly doing well right now, and they can't afford to lose a potentially big revenue stream next year... even if it widens their cash gap this quarter. Funny though, their market cap has tripled over the past six months.
Maybe they'll restart in January, so management can keep this quarter's financials looking not terrible.
Did you even understand wtf the thought police comment is about? It's about pending game content legislation, which if you had any frickin clue about, you'd understand my point. Heaven forbid, a parent needs to be aware of what games their kids are playing.
Plus, if you're going to post like a prick, have the courage to not post as AC.
"the Family Media Guide singles out include some of the ESRB M-rated titles (not buyable by those under the age of 17)"
Anyone can buy a game with an M-rating, unless a store chooses to enforce the ESRB system. It's voluntary, not a legal requirement*. Parents need to be aware of this, and not trust stores/government to police what games their children purchase.
*Yet. May no longer be true in your jurisdiction. Laws pending. Beware the thought police.
"Is the apocalypse nigh? I sure think so. The last one happened at the height of Atari's power, they were invincible, pumping out hit after hit. Pac-Man, ET, Asteroids, movie tie-ins, overflowing arcades and a rabid fan base. They were in the spotlight of the mainstream press, songs making the top 10, and money coming out of their ears. What could go wrong?"
TFA is missing a couple key differences.
(1) Video games are not a nascent market, like they were with the 2600. The biggest market for video games has been playing them their entire life, and have the purchasing power to keep the industry afloat.
(2) PCs and consoles are more ubiquitous in the American home today. The potential market is larger.
I believe that the video game market will not crash. It may not be able to continue in its present form, with tons of high-stakes gambling on low-risk ventures, but the money will be there for the taking... but the terms of competition may change.
If I were a big-time game dev CEO (Ryan, you listening?), I'd be looking at creating an engine that could be used to create many games of different genres & styles... then I'd save on dev costs and be able to focus on content & gameplay. And, be able to license the engine for a long tail.
"That's all, basically the MMO creator just needs a basic storyline with a few warring factions and a big interactive sandbox in which the players can live and play with randome monster placements. They just need to come at it from a new more simplistic angle."
The sandbox idea doesn't work out so well. Turns out that most people willing to fork out cash each month want more content delivered to them... they want to be led and motivated to do stuff. I think that MMOs are far more complex than you give them credit for... and I think the complexity is what drives people to keep shelling out the dough.
"Laziness is slowly making it's way into software companies. Eventually, I use this term loosely as it may take 5 years for anything to happen, people will stop buying games until the developers fix them."
How is this new? Complex PC games have always required patches to work properly (with exceptions, of course). This is not "slowly making its way," it's "rearing its head yet again." The difference is that a major aspect of gameplay is controlled by people outside the publisher, who are being lobbied to make a statement to the publisher about the problems with the game.
"Of course, with a huge advertising budget the companies can always discredit complaints. Unfortunately, I only foresee the lying in advertising getting worse in the near future."
It doesn't matter, if there are alternatives that don't have the problems. People will play the games that they get the best experience out of... they'll buy those games, too. Advertising, especially for a non-commodity item like a FPS game, won't overcome user experience and brand opinion.
"How is it possible to carry on a rational, rhetoric-free debate when even the summary is riddled with such a subjective premise?"
This is not a new thing, most headlines have loaded statements in them. Maybe it's to jumpstart the comment dialogue, maybe there's another reason, I don't know.
But it seems to me that most summaries, particularly about political topics, have a least one trollish statement in them.
That said, it doesn't really matter, as long as there is debate... we can work off the assumption that people reading and posting to slashdot are intelligent enough to take every comment with a grain of salt. Not that people always do, or that they always give fair shake to opposing points of view, but that's the assumption we need to work from.
Is 300 GB necessary? From a content producer standpoint, I don't want to be able to fit that much content on a single disc... then I can't charge as much for the special 4-disc pre-Christmas release edition.
From a consumer standpoint, I don't need this either, unless I want to archive all my files, in which case it's easier (and cheaper) to have a second hard drive.
I understand there is demand for high-volume storage solutions, but I can't see a mass market for them...
What I do see being very, very useful is the speed upgrade for r/w -- especially for gaming, but I'm sure this applies to other areas as well.
IMO, though, I don't see a big enough demand for this to become profitable for quite a long time -- especially if Bluray or HD-DVD is 'good enough' for the average user.