Azureus, as an application, totally rules. It would be excellent in C or even python.
Then why isn't there a corresponding application in C or Python? How do you know that re-implementing them in another language doesn't create new bugs (security issues for C, for instance) that using Java has eliminated?
At the same time, porting it (or reimplementing in another client) takes away exactly zero from the Azureus developers or users. It's a win-win situation.
I don't buy into the logic that creating competing open source projects automatically is a win-win situation. I can in fact come up with several negative consequences (this applies to all projects, not just Azureus).
Many projects means developers will be spread thin, negating the old "Many eyes make all bugs shallow". Developers for Azureus will have to work harder to implement new things and fix bugs, since developers who could have helped them are working on other projects.
More projects gives more choice to the users, but that also means they have to invest time in researching which best suit their needs.
What? No, no, that is not possible. They have a chatlog as evidence and everything! And it is on the frontpage of Slashdot so you KNOW it has to be true.
OT - Actually, I would take the "one project boss" if I got to choose. He only fails one project. The other projects can be delegated to someone else by management.
The million project guy on the other hand obfuscates the resources really needed, which is bad for management because they then start other projects. I bet he also hands out tasks to subordinates and won't listen when they say it is impossible to do with the time allocated, so he makes employees life hell too. So he fails a million projects where some of them might have been saved.
you call them SUVs because you want them to sound nice and harmless in your neo-con, politically-correct world.
Haha, good one. First time ever I've been called a neo-con. By American standards I'm pretty leftist (I tend to move between liberal and social democrat camps), I also consider myself an environmentalist. WWF member, for instance. You might also have noticed I have had you as a "friend" for quite some time, since I usually agree with what you say.
FYI - I didn't agree with the grandparent. I just pointed out a inconsistency in his reasoning.
What's wrong with the Nature Conservancy approach? Buy up the land while trying to respect property rights. Look for approaches that make economic sense to the locals so they are sustainable. Be more efficient without hating SUVs or even nuclear power. Why does it all have to be tied to some lefty anti-capitalist, anti-globalist worldview?
You just answered your own retorical question. Obviously it doesn't have to be, you just formulated an environmental position that made sense to you. Now all you have to do is convince the rest of the world of the validity of your position.;-)
Well, (from TFA) he has a degree in biology, and was involved in a Pentagon study on climate change. Oh, and he just got an article published in the Technology Review. You might have heard of it.
Also, eating muesli and selling organically grown tat (what's that?) doesn't disqualify someone from being an expert on these things, so quit the ad hominems.
What are YOUR qualifications by the way? Good Slashdot karma?
Great news, I needed a bit cheering up. Just yesterday I read that Ericsson has started to threaten the Swedish government that research and development will be moved out of Europe to countries that "respect software patents" (the spokesman mentions Japan and the US).
Kids in the playground will play cowboys and indians (or the politically correct modern equivalent of a battle scene) until the cows come home. Put them in front of a film with a sex scene, however, and they'll generally feel uncomfortable at best or start making retching noises at worst.
You are oversimplifying. Adult sexuality will confuse kids yes, but a lot of kids do play "sex" games with each other long before puberty. I know I did. Most kids are curious about things like that, or at least their own bodies. Tell me you haven't heard of the game "you show me yours, and I'll show you mine"?
Talking about kids and sex is a hot potato though, I agree... lest anyone think I am defending paedophilia, that is horribly and utterly wrong, and it is not what I'm talking about.
But they love violence at any age, mostly.
Kids love action and running around, they have a lot of energy. Saying that this means they like violence is wrong. Put them in front of a film showing real voilence I think you will find they won't like it.
With regards to the general discussion, my belief is that any culture that accepts violence and looks down on love and sex is utterly sick.
It is not just British comedy, and it is not just comedy. A huge number of French comedy films have been bastardised by Hollywood.
A large number of European thrillers have been bastardised by Hollywood too. One of the worst examples I can think of is the Dutch film "The Vanishing". Really good, extremely dark. In the original, when the protagonist finally found out what had happened to his girlfriend who vanished... it gave me nightmares. What did HW do? Give it a happy ending of course!
Damn, they actually went ahead and did it. If they had to have a compound name, couldn't they at least have picked Mantiva? On the Mandrake mailing lists, most people seemed to be in favour of that one.
The only Google reference to Mantiva is an Italian family name. If I associate it with anything in English, its "mantis".
He should be asking "How come you guys are so hung up on your religion that you question this so much?"
Haha. Yeah, because the best way to get someone to come over to your side is to start by implaying that they are dogmatic, irrational and "too sceptical".
*smack* Idiot!;-)
Seriously though, I am finally beginning to see why some people are interested in Mono. Pretty cool that it can run Java for instance (mainly thanks to the work done by the people at GCJ and Classpath I believe). But for me Mono looks like it continues to primarily be a.Net platform and therefore it is of no interest to me.
They are the evil ones. This industry is actively lobbying for stricter laws that remove consumer rights, and move us towards fascism rather than democracy.
What? It's hyperbole day on Slashdot and no one informed me? This is the greatest injustice in the history of mankind!!
My answer is that Java is a lot more than web development. On my mobile phone I have 10 games written in J2ME for instance. On my desktop I use Azureus, Eclipse, Puzzle Pirates.
Basically, centralized repositories (apt-style) do not give each publisher/software house the ability to control *their own distribution*. That, in my estimation, is the #1 reason why more companies don't distribute software packages. Sure, there's an issue of non-standard toolkits, etc, but the first obstacle to standardizing anything is the install. Autopackage provides the possibility of a single way to install AND uninstall applications on every Linux distribution. That's why it's important.
Ah, I see. I wasn't aware of all the things Autopackage could do.
One example is Java Web Start. While it's a really great idea, it's so awful from the experience of a user, that I refuse to use it.
My experience is the complete opposite. Have you tried to download the demo for Puzzle Pirates? That uses Webstart. Looks great, works great. Completely OS independent, and they have skinned webstart to give it a game UI look and feel. Not difficult to use at all, just double click on a jar to start the game and any patches are downloaded and installed automatically and then the game starts.
Think about the "fairly popular" bit. None of these languages have become as prevalent as Java. With the industrial adoption of Java has come a huge pressure to add more stuff to it, and an increased possibility of forks when people don't get what they want added. See the many different scripting add on libraries for instance.
We have MSFT pushing their own completely incompatible java-like system.
Imitation is the sincerest for of flattery. Microsoft has cloned Java, and now you are going to blame Sun for the fact that it isn't 100% compatible.
Let's see: we have kaffe, gcj, and a handful of other open source attempts to clone java, all of which are not exactly one-hundred percent compatible, and none of which would exist if java had been open source in the first place.
I think you have to explain your reasoning a bit here, because no matter how I try to read this it sounds like you contradict yourself. "Open source versions are forked. Therefore, if it had been open source there would be no forks"?
There is also a popular request for enhancement hereurging sun to make the Java RPM play better in Linux, i.e. respecting the filesystem standards for where to place documentation etc.
I doubt that GCJ is going to take over on Linux though. Not that they aren't doing FANTASTIC work, but there is still lots of catching up to do and Java is a moving target.
I thought Java Applets run in a sandbox and can't modify local files.
They can't, unless the user clicks "I allow this applet to modify files on my harddrive. Warning, this is unsafe, only do this with applets coming from a source you trust."
This isn't a java exploit anymore than a downloaded executable is an OS exploit.
When translating for Slashdot, did you ever stop to think if it was the right thing to be posting the personal id number, home address, email adresses etc of the people involved?
Nice people, AUH. Personal threats is always a sign of class.
Slashdot Mirror
Azureus, as an application, totally rules. It would be excellent in C or even python.
Then why isn't there a corresponding application in C or Python? How do you know that re-implementing them in another language doesn't create new bugs (security issues for C, for instance) that using Java has eliminated?
At the same time, porting it (or reimplementing in another client) takes away exactly zero from the Azureus developers or users. It's a win-win situation.
I don't buy into the logic that creating competing open source projects automatically is a win-win situation. I can in fact come up with several negative consequences (this applies to all projects, not just Azureus).
Many projects means developers will be spread thin, negating the old "Many eyes make all bugs shallow". Developers for Azureus will have to work harder to implement new things and fix bugs, since developers who could have helped them are working on other projects.
More projects gives more choice to the users, but that also means they have to invest time in researching which best suit their needs.
Prof Frink: "Finally, the perfect recipe for mixing juice. It turns out the secret ingredient is... love!? Who's been tampering with this thing?"
That this is a hoax. It's simply not feasible.
What? No, no, that is not possible. They have a chatlog as evidence and everything! And it is on the frontpage of Slashdot so you KNOW it has to be true.
OT -
Actually, I would take the "one project boss" if I got to choose. He only fails one project. The other projects can be delegated to someone else by management.
The million project guy on the other hand obfuscates the resources really needed, which is bad for management because they then start other projects. I bet he also hands out tasks to subordinates and won't listen when they say it is impossible to do with the time allocated, so he makes employees life hell too. So he fails a million projects where some of them might have been saved.
you call them SUVs because you want them to sound nice and harmless in your neo-con, politically-correct world.
Haha, good one. First time ever I've been called a neo-con. By American standards I'm pretty leftist (I tend to move between liberal and social democrat camps), I also consider myself an environmentalist. WWF member, for instance. You might also have noticed I have had you as a "friend" for quite some time, since I usually agree with what you say.
FYI - I didn't agree with the grandparent. I just pointed out a inconsistency in his reasoning.
What's wrong with the Nature Conservancy approach? Buy up the land while trying to respect property rights. Look for approaches that make economic sense to the locals so they are sustainable. Be more efficient without hating SUVs or even nuclear power. Why does it all have to be tied to some lefty anti-capitalist, anti-globalist worldview?
;-)
You just answered your own retorical question. Obviously it doesn't have to be, you just formulated an environmental position that made sense to you. Now all you have to do is convince the rest of the world of the validity of your position.
Well, (from TFA) he has a degree in biology, and was involved in a Pentagon study on climate change. Oh, and he just got an article published in the Technology Review. You might have heard of it.
Also, eating muesli and selling organically grown tat (what's that?) doesn't disqualify someone from being an expert on these things, so quit the ad hominems.
What are YOUR qualifications by the way? Good Slashdot karma?
Great news, I needed a bit cheering up. Just yesterday I read that Ericsson has started to threaten the Swedish government that research and development will be moved out of Europe to countries that "respect software patents" (the spokesman mentions Japan and the US).
Ahh... I love you guys. Quotes from my favourite book. :-)
I have seen a couple of Slashdot users with inspired names - Twirlip of the Mists for instance.
You've read Deepness in the Sky too, I hope?
Hey, why worry about neutron stars? As the article says, we can't do anything about it. But we are already in the sixth mega-extinction.
Kids in the playground will play cowboys and indians (or the politically correct modern equivalent of a battle scene) until the cows come home. Put them in front of a film with a sex scene, however, and they'll generally feel uncomfortable at best or start making retching noises at worst.
You are oversimplifying. Adult sexuality will confuse kids yes, but a lot of kids do play "sex" games with each other long before puberty. I know I did. Most kids are curious about things like that, or at least their own bodies. Tell me you haven't heard of the game "you show me yours, and I'll show you mine"?
Talking about kids and sex is a hot potato though, I agree... lest anyone think I am defending paedophilia, that is horribly and utterly wrong, and it is not what I'm talking about.
But they love violence at any age, mostly.
Kids love action and running around, they have a lot of energy. Saying that this means they like violence is wrong. Put them in front of a film showing real voilence I think you will find they won't like it.
With regards to the general discussion, my belief is that any culture that accepts violence and looks down on love and sex is utterly sick.
It is not just British comedy, and it is not just comedy. A huge number of French comedy films have been bastardised by Hollywood.
A large number of European thrillers have been bastardised by Hollywood too. One of the worst examples I can think of is the Dutch film "The Vanishing". Really good, extremely dark. In the original, when the protagonist finally found out what had happened to his girlfriend who vanished... it gave me nightmares. What did HW do? Give it a happy ending of course!
Damn, they actually went ahead and did it. If they had to have a compound name, couldn't they at least have picked Mantiva? On the Mandrake mailing lists, most people seemed to be in favour of that one.
The only Google reference to Mantiva is an Italian family name. If I associate it with anything in English, its "mantis".
Woo hoo, I am gonna look sooooo lush with Jenna Jamesons body!
Note to self, shave before taking face pic.
Yeah, or else you might end up looking like
this.
He should be asking "How come you guys are so hung up on your religion that you question this so much?"
;-)
.Net platform and therefore it is of no interest to me.
Haha. Yeah, because the best way to get someone to come over to your side is to start by implaying that they are dogmatic, irrational and "too sceptical".
*smack* Idiot!
Seriously though, I am finally beginning to see why some people are interested in Mono. Pretty cool that it can run Java for instance (mainly thanks to the work done by the people at GCJ and Classpath I believe). But for me Mono looks like it continues to primarily be a
They are the evil ones. This industry is actively lobbying for stricter laws that remove consumer rights, and move us towards fascism rather than democracy.
What? It's hyperbole day on Slashdot and no one informed me? This is the greatest injustice in the history of mankind!!
I can't believe more people haven't mentioned Teaching company yet. A lot of the lectures are fantastic!
My answer is that Java is a lot more than web development. On my mobile phone I have 10 games written in J2ME for instance. On my desktop I use Azureus, Eclipse, Puzzle Pirates.
Basically, centralized repositories (apt-style) do not give each publisher/software house the ability to control *their own distribution*. That, in my estimation, is the #1 reason why more companies don't distribute software packages. Sure, there's an issue of non-standard toolkits, etc, but the first obstacle to standardizing anything is the install. Autopackage provides the possibility of a single way to install AND uninstall applications on every Linux distribution. That's why it's important.
Ah, I see. I wasn't aware of all the things Autopackage could do.
One example is Java Web Start. While it's a really great idea, it's so awful from the experience of a user, that I refuse to use it.
My experience is the complete opposite. Have you tried to download the demo for Puzzle Pirates? That uses Webstart. Looks great, works great. Completely OS independent, and they have skinned webstart to give it a game UI look and feel. Not difficult to use at all, just double click on a jar to start the game and any patches are downloaded and installed automatically and then the game starts.
Think about the "fairly popular" bit. None of these languages have become as prevalent as Java. With the industrial adoption of Java has come a huge pressure to add more stuff to it, and an increased possibility of forks when people don't get what they want added. See the many different scripting add on libraries for instance.
We have MSFT pushing their own completely incompatible java-like system.
Imitation is the sincerest for of flattery. Microsoft has cloned Java, and now you are going to blame Sun for the fact that it isn't 100% compatible.
Let's see: we have kaffe, gcj, and a handful of other open source attempts to clone java, all of which are not exactly one-hundred percent compatible, and none of which would exist if java had been open source in the first place.
I think you have to explain your reasoning a bit here, because no matter how I try to read this it sounds like you contradict yourself.
"Open source versions are forked. Therefore, if it had been open source there would be no forks"?
Perhaps if you could tell us why you thought Eclipse and Netbeans suck it would be easier to come with a suggestion?
Anyway, some of the most popular would probably be JBuilder, JDeveloper, IntelliJ IDEA, KDevelop...
If you prefer more light-weight IDEs, you can always use ANT together with something like Emacs or JEdit.
Then, they should work to standardize on http://www.autopackage.org/ [autopackage.org], or something very similar to it.
:-)
JPackage perhaps?
There is also a popular request for enhancement hereurging sun to make the Java RPM play better in Linux, i.e. respecting the filesystem standards for where to place documentation etc.
I doubt that GCJ is going to take over on Linux though. Not that they aren't doing FANTASTIC work, but there is still lots of catching up to do and Java is a moving target.
I thought Java Applets run in a sandbox and can't modify local files.
They can't, unless the user clicks "I allow this applet to modify files on my harddrive. Warning, this is unsafe, only do this with applets coming from a source you trust."
This isn't a java exploit anymore than a downloaded executable is an OS exploit.
When translating for Slashdot, did you ever stop to think if it was the right thing to be posting the personal id number, home address, email adresses etc of the people involved?
Nice people, AUH. Personal threats is always a sign of class.