Mobile agents are essentially code which moves over a network and executes locally. You could launch one, turn off your computer, and during the night it moves over the Net collecting your data, computing something or run a server... When you turned your computer back on in the morning the agent would return to you with your search result, or whatever.
You can understand why this is attractive, it would make the "system that keeps running even though part of it is nuked" closer to reality. It would also take P2P and distributed computing to a new level.
While it is interesting in theory, they usually run into problems when implementing it in practice. If you think about it, the "moving over the net and executing wherever" sounds a lot like a virus, right? Therefore, they have to make a sandbox on the server for the agents to play in, so that they don't access sensitive data, or crash the host computer by using up all resources etc. Also, the agent and its contents have to be protected from potentially malicious hosts, so that they don't get sensitive data exposed or corrupted.
So when you apply all the security checks and encryption you need, the sandbox and agents become very bloated and slow to execute. Bloated agents move very slowly over the network and take up bandwidth... not good.
Aglets is an early Java based test system for this, the name stands for "agile applets".
Thanks, you made up my mind. I'm looking for a new laptop. Have used Dell before and liked the stability, even if they are a bit expensive. Phoned up Dell and asked if it was possible to get some other OS than WinXP, or even a blank HD instead. Nope, ney, nix, totally impossible, never. We have a deal with Microsoft. Buy a computer from us, get Windows, that's the only way.
The day after that I saw an ad on Swedish TV: "No hassle! Get your PC exactly the way you want it!" Too bad I didn't see it before, then I could rub their faces in it. "So I can get a cheaper computer by stripping the hardware, getting a less generous services guarantee, but I can't get a new OS. Why not? I want a new OS, that is the only modification I want. And you said I could get my computer EXACTLY the way I wanted it?"
I was still considering them. I could just reformat the HD and install the OSes I want. It would give Microsoft a +1 to boast about on their false XP sales statistics, but what the heck.
But now spyware also... no. I will not support a company that screws it customers like that, even if it won't affect me. From now one it's anyone but Dell. Does anyone know if any of the major laptop makers are more alternative-OS friendly? HP boast in ads that they are the Linux alternative, but does that apply to end user computers too, or only company servers?
[ KABLAM! A really big explosion. More screaming and the sound of rushing water.]
Yeah... very funny, joking about real deaths.
The rescuers couldn't understand why a group of men would spend the last of their strength tapping out "windows sucks" in morse code.
Well, no, those few who survived in the cold and darkness on the bottom of the ocean for days, probably knowing that the chance of rescue was nil, wrote stuff like "Please tell my wife I love her".
For those who are about to tell me to get a sense of humour, I already have one thanks. That's why I wasn't laughing at this particular joke.
This project is absolutely fantastic. We're finally beginning to systematically explore the ocean and the ocean floor. The implications here for technology, environmental studies, education, and research in all sorts of different arenas is staggering.
Agreed. It used to be said we knew more about outer space than the oceans, but finally this is starting to change. If you want to learn more, a good place to start is the amazing BBC documentary Blue Planet. It contains some of the most beautiful images I have ever seen.
Yarr, we demand nautical measurment units! For instance, yonder cable be not 3000 kilometers, it be 13667 cable lengths. Give or take a catfish whisker.
Although what surprised me most was that for once someone on Slashdot got "Hear, hear" right, instead of typing "here! here!" like someone calling for their dog.
um, Sun dont sponsor ant. There are no active Ant committers from sunw, no direct funding
It is not listed under the "sponsored" projects, but in the once that Sun "participates" in.
However, if they don't participate today, I think it is very bad form by them to take credit for your work, even if it was started by someone at Sun. *frowns*
Congratulations on a great piece of software btw, I use it daily!
Some people think that Sun does have a future as a hardware manufacturer, but I think I will have to agree with the article, they can't win the fight against being squeezed out of the market by cheap Intel/AMD servers running Linux (or Windows..).
They really have to decide where they are going, and find a new way to earn money. I think Java is their best bet. I HOPE they will do something like IBM, and jump on the Linux bandwagon as the main platform for Java. Still, finding a steady and large revenue stream from that could be difficult. I suspect they get some from Websphere and the other one (forget what its called), and maybe some from selling courses in Java, but that can't be enough. If they started charging money for using Java I think they would discover that their customer loyalty would evaporate pretty quickly.
I suspect some people here on Slashdot will crow about the problems Sun is going through, but consider that Sun has actually been good for the Open Source world. If it wasn't for the fact that it is a cheap Java platform, Linux would not be as widespread as it is in the business world. Also, they gave us Open Office, and participates and even sponsors a number of Open Source projects. Ant, GNOME, Tomcat, GNUlpr, Open Office... Sure, most projects are Java related, but that is understandable and it is still more than most of the big companies have given us.
Well, if they die, it will be interesting to see what happens with Java. Perhaps they will Open Source it completely, if not out of the goodness of their hearts, then at least as a poison pill against Microsoft...
The parts of.NET that are standard are safe. The parts that aren't standard aren't required to Mono and can be replaced with other libraries.
Um, just in an afternoon or what? I thought we were talking about thousands of classes. If a lot of people build on Mono and MS then strikes, people have two options: quickly move to MS, or shut off their business critical systems and wait years until the offending code in Mono has been stripped and replaced.
Hm, the REAL question is why people are so fond and liking of Sun. They are *at least* as evil as Microsoft..
Yeah, for instance by giving away the Star Office source to the community as Open Office, sponsoring the continuing development of Open Office, sponsoring Liberty Alliance (the only available alternative to MS Palladium lockin) or participating in the development of stuff like Ant, Mozilla, Tomcat and GNOME. How dare the evil bastards!
Exactly! I do use Java, for exactly the reasons you state. I can understand that some Open Source people might be sceptic of a standard controlled by a company. Fine. But how some people can hate Sun and Java in one moment and then applaud Microsoft in the next is mindboggling.
And don't give me that crap about.Net being some how open source or ISO compliant or whatever. A very small part of it is, most of it is still secret and proprietary. To then say that the whole.Net is open as Microsoft claims is then using "weasel words".
Well... I am still doubtful. Microsoft keeps their monopoly by integrating all their products tightly and not allowing anyone else to play. They use their operating system to force MS Office and Internet Explorer down everyones throat, and then use IE to force people to use Passport, and Office to force people to use Windows, and Windows workstation to force people to use Windows server, and everything to force people to use Exchange and so on.
Before I go on, I have to ask about something I have wondered about a lot. "Commoditize", is that when something moves from being a big thing, an investment or a service, to something that you just pick up and buy in any store? That is the impression I have. Ok, I'll go with this definition for now unless someone corrects me. Perhaps the idea of commoditize an OS has been around for a long time in Comp Sci and MS research labs. But for me, it was around 96-97 or so when I realised Java was not just for applets, and I heard about "write once, run everywhere". I thought "wow, cool, I wouldn't have to relearn every program I use if I move to this Linux thing I'm starting to hear so much about, I could just take my programs with me. And when I start working as a programmer things will be much easer for me to get a bigger market too".
I, and I think many with me, got very angry with MS attempts to pollute Java at that time. MS realised that if people started programming for a portable JVM isnstead of for Windows, they couldn't use Office etc to keep people using Windows. They kept trying to embrace and extend Java until Sun took them to court. So what did they do? They copied Java and J2EE straight off and launched it as something completetly revolutionary. A lot of it is so similar they have just changed the class and method names.
Having modular parts, where you can remove one part with a better one if you feel like it, has never been approved by MS. The only way they would allow Linux or any other non-MS OS be the OS of choice is if their.Net dominance is so complete that everything is targeted towards it and the OS running below is as irrelevant as your motherboard BIOS.
As for Sun doing bad economically, I think you are right, but that's sad. Do you look forward to being locked into.Net as tightly tomorrow as we are into Windows today?
When it comes to the GUI part, have seen SWT for Java? Eclipse the development environment is written in it, I use it both under Windows and Linux. Perhaps not as fast as native GUI, and like all java programs a memory hog, but it looks very nice and is responsive enough.
[...] I think C# and the Mono CLR can greately enhance Linux' position on the desktop, and on the server, as an alternative to server-side Java.
Java is the number one REASON Linux is eating into Microsofts server profits. The.Net hype is a full frontal assault on Java by Microsoft. And possibly, Mono might help them*. Once MS have killed off Java and replaced it with.Net, they are only fighting on one front, and can put all their resources to killing Linux.
*When I wrote a post on this on a previous topic, one of the Mono developers answered and said they were a bit worried about this too, and they had a Java/Mono interoperability project. However, it was currently inactive due to a lack of developers.
>>"Unfortunately, Linux would be the big loser if that were to happen."
>Linux would be at exactly the same spot in which is started.
Well, except it might lose an enormous amount of good will in the business world.
Boss:"You said Mono was compatible, but now it turns out it isn't, and we have to spend huge amounts of money migrating back to Windows. This is the last time we try to bet our business on this open source crap. Oh, and you don't have to bother showing up for work tomorrow."
You would still be free to use it at home of course, but it would be unfortunate for us who want to use it at work because we enjoy it, and/or because we think it would be good for our organization.
I started writing an angry answer to the "I don't need no steeenking social skills" guy, then I read your post and decided not to bother, I wouldn't come up with anything so eloquent. Well said.
I got a job as a sysadmin 6 months ago, my first permanent full time job. There were 120 people who applied to the job, 10 who were interviewed, and I was the one who landed the job. They said a BIG reason was that I seemed like a nice and patient guy, which was important when working with people who might not be very computer literate.
And I agree, most geeks don't understand how difficult it is being a good boss or good salesperson. If you don't think it sounds fun, you should be grateful someone else does it for you, not look down on them.
Does anyone else remember the great Atari/Amiga/DOS Dune adventure/strategy game by the French company Cryo from 1992? It was based partly on the book and partly on the Lynch film. I believe the same company tried again a year ago or so ago with "Frank Herbert's Dune", this time more based on the Sci-Fi channel mini-series. The reviews this time was more so-so.
The best thing about the original game was the atmosphere, helped along by the great soundtrack and the impressive architecture...
Wasn't it Sun who recently suffered a major blow to their java language, when it was discovered that the java interpreter that ran on their own operating system (Solaris) was slower than the interpreter created for windows?
Why would this be a "major blow" to Java the language? If this is true, and not just FUD (as I suspect), all it would show that there is room for optimization of the virtual machine on Solaris, that is all. Big whoop.
Perhaps the author could have mentioned something about the price and support in the article?
I don't know if the price is official, or even finally decided yet. When I asked a Sun salesman a couple of weeks ago at the Networks Telecom Expo the price he mentioned was very reasonable, probably around $50-$100 if I remember correctly. That would include all licenses for included software such as Star Office of course. He handed me a folder which states that the price includes 60 day installation support and one year of maintenance and feature upgrades, but the folder doesn't state any price. The folder doesn't include much else of interest, just a lot of salesspeak. I did get to try it out. It looked nice and was very quick and responsive, but I was a bit disappointed that it was just Yet Another Linux Distro with not much to distinguish it. It was only a beta though, and lots of the menues were empty because they hadn't finalised which Java and Linux apps they would include. Perhaps it will have something extra in the future.
Still, they had the best damn coffee at the expo, under a big "Java" banner. Delicious free latte! Mmm...
Slashdot Mirror
Mobile agents are essentially code which moves over a network and executes locally. You could launch one, turn off your computer, and during the night it moves over the Net collecting your data, computing something or run a server... When you turned your computer back on in the morning the agent would return to you with your search result, or whatever.
You can understand why this is attractive, it would make the "system that keeps running even though part of it is nuked" closer to reality. It would also take P2P and distributed computing to a new level.
While it is interesting in theory, they usually run into problems when implementing it in practice. If you think about it, the "moving over the net and executing wherever" sounds a lot like a virus, right? Therefore, they have to make a sandbox on the server for the agents to play in, so that they don't access sensitive data, or crash the host computer by using up all resources etc. Also, the agent and its contents have to be protected from potentially malicious hosts, so that they don't get sensitive data exposed or corrupted.
So when you apply all the security checks and encryption you need, the sandbox and agents become very bloated and slow to execute. Bloated agents move very slowly over the network and take up bandwidth... not good.
Aglets is an early Java based test system for this, the name stands for "agile applets".
Thanks, you made up my mind. I'm looking for a new laptop. Have used Dell before and liked the stability, even if they are a bit expensive. Phoned up Dell and asked if it was possible to get some other OS than WinXP, or even a blank HD instead. Nope, ney, nix, totally impossible, never. We have a deal with Microsoft. Buy a computer from us, get Windows, that's the only way.
The day after that I saw an ad on Swedish TV: "No hassle! Get your PC exactly the way you want it!" Too bad I didn't see it before, then I could rub their faces in it. "So I can get a cheaper computer by stripping the hardware, getting a less generous services guarantee, but I can't get a new OS. Why not? I want a new OS, that is the only modification I want. And you said I could get my computer EXACTLY the way I wanted it?"
I was still considering them. I could just reformat the HD and install the OSes I want. It would give Microsoft a +1 to boast about on their false XP sales statistics, but what the heck.
But now spyware also... no. I will not support a company that screws it customers like that, even if it won't affect me. From now one it's anyone but Dell. Does anyone know if any of the major laptop makers are more alternative-OS friendly? HP boast in ads that they are the Linux alternative, but does that apply to end user computers too, or only company servers?
[ KABLAM! A really big explosion. More screaming and the sound of rushing water.]
Yeah... very funny, joking about real deaths.
The rescuers couldn't understand why a group of men would spend the last of their strength tapping out "windows sucks" in morse code.
Well, no, those few who survived in the cold and darkness on the bottom of the ocean for days, probably knowing that the chance of rescue was nil, wrote stuff like "Please tell my wife I love her".
For those who are about to tell me to get a sense of humour, I already have one thanks. That's why I wasn't laughing at this particular joke.
This project is absolutely fantastic. We're finally beginning to systematically explore the ocean and the ocean floor. The implications here for technology, environmental studies, education, and research in all sorts of different arenas is staggering.
Agreed. It used to be said we knew more about outer space than the oceans, but finally this is starting to change. If you want to learn more, a good place to start is the amazing BBC documentary
Blue Planet. It contains some of the most beautiful images I have ever seen.
Yarr, we demand nautical measurment units! For instance, yonder cable be not 3000 kilometers, it be 13667 cable lengths. Give or take a catfish whisker.
Instead of flaming them on a website they likely don't read, how about mailing them these suggestions?
Not to mention that they cancelled Mystery Science Theatre 3000! *wails and gnashes teeth*
Oh well, at least the old episodes are available online.
Well said.
Although what surprised me most was that for once someone on Slashdot got "Hear, hear" right, instead of typing "here! here!" like someone calling for their dog.
um, Sun dont sponsor ant. There are no active Ant committers from sunw, no direct funding
It is not listed under the "sponsored" projects, but in the once that Sun "participates" in.
However, if they don't participate today, I think it is very bad form by them to take credit for your work, even if it was started by someone at Sun.
*frowns*
Congratulations on a great piece of software btw, I use it daily!
Some people think that Sun does have a future as a hardware manufacturer, but I think I will have to agree with the article, they can't win the fight against being squeezed out of the market by cheap Intel/AMD servers running Linux (or Windows..).
They really have to decide where they are going, and find a new way to earn money. I think Java is their best bet. I HOPE they will do something like IBM, and jump on the Linux bandwagon as the main platform for Java. Still, finding a steady and large revenue stream from that could be difficult. I suspect they get some from Websphere and the other one (forget what its called), and maybe some from selling courses in Java, but that can't be enough. If they started charging money for using Java I think they would discover that their customer loyalty would evaporate pretty quickly.
I suspect some people here on Slashdot will crow about the problems Sun is going through, but consider that Sun has actually been good for the Open Source world. If it wasn't for the fact that it is a cheap Java platform, Linux would not be as widespread as it is in the business world. Also, they gave us Open Office, and participates and even sponsors a number of Open Source projects. Ant, GNOME, Tomcat, GNUlpr, Open Office... Sure, most projects are Java related, but that is understandable and it is still more than most of the big companies have given us.
Well, if they die, it will be interesting to see what happens with Java. Perhaps they will Open Source it completely, if not out of the goodness of their hearts, then at least as a poison pill against Microsoft...
The parts of .NET that are standard are safe. The parts that aren't standard aren't required to Mono and can be replaced with other libraries.
Um, just in an afternoon or what? I thought we were talking about thousands of classes. If a lot of people build on Mono and MS then strikes, people have two options: quickly move to MS, or shut off their business critical systems and wait years until the offending code in Mono has been stripped and replaced.
Hm, the REAL question is why people are so fond and liking of Sun. They are *at least* as evil as Microsoft..
Yeah, for instance by giving away the Star Office source to the community as Open Office, sponsoring the continuing development of Open Office, sponsoring Liberty Alliance (the only available alternative to MS Palladium lockin) or participating in the development of stuff like Ant, Mozilla, Tomcat and GNOME. How dare the evil bastards!
See here if you don't believe me. http://www.sunsource.net/
Now I have to ask... Why not use Java?
.Net being some how open source or ISO compliant or whatever. A very small part of it is, most of it is still secret and proprietary. To then say that the whole .Net is open as Microsoft claims is then using "weasel words".
Exactly! I do use Java, for exactly the reasons you state. I can understand that some Open Source people might be sceptic of a standard controlled by a company. Fine. But how some people can hate Sun and Java in one moment and then applaud Microsoft in the next is mindboggling.
And don't give me that crap about
Well... I am still doubtful. Microsoft keeps their monopoly by integrating all their products tightly and not allowing anyone else to play. They use their operating system to force MS Office and Internet Explorer down everyones throat, and then use IE to force people to use Passport, and Office to force people to use Windows, and Windows workstation to force people to use Windows server, and everything to force people to use Exchange and so on.
.Net dominance is so complete that everything is targeted towards it and the OS running below is as irrelevant as your motherboard BIOS.
.Net as tightly tomorrow as we are into Windows today?
Before I go on, I have to ask about something I have wondered about a lot. "Commoditize", is that when something moves from being a big thing, an investment or a service, to something that you just pick up and buy in any store? That is the impression I have. Ok, I'll go with this definition for now unless someone corrects me. Perhaps the idea of commoditize an OS has been around for a long time in Comp Sci and MS research labs. But for me, it was around 96-97 or so when I realised Java was not just for applets, and I heard about "write once, run everywhere". I thought "wow, cool, I wouldn't have to relearn every program I use if I move to this Linux thing I'm starting to hear so much about, I could just take my programs with me. And when I start working as a programmer things will be much easer for me to get a bigger market too".
I, and I think many with me, got very angry with MS attempts to pollute Java at that time. MS realised that if people started programming for a portable JVM isnstead of for Windows, they couldn't use Office etc to keep people using Windows. They kept trying to embrace and extend Java until Sun took them to court. So what did they do? They copied Java and J2EE straight off and launched it as something completetly revolutionary. A lot of it is so similar they have just changed the class and method names.
Having modular parts, where you can remove one part with a better one if you feel like it, has never been approved by MS. The only way they would allow Linux or any other non-MS OS be the OS of choice is if their
As for Sun doing bad economically, I think you are right, but that's sad. Do you look forward to being locked into
When it comes to the GUI part, have seen SWT for Java? Eclipse the development environment is written in it, I use it both under Windows and Linux. Perhaps not as fast as native GUI, and like all java programs a memory hog, but it looks very nice and is responsive enough.
www.eclipse.org
Linux's strength lies in its variety, not everyone will commit to developing with mono.
;)
There will always be alternatives.
Perhaps they should have named it "Plurality" instead of Mono.
[...] I think C# and the Mono CLR can greately enhance Linux' position on the desktop, and on the server, as an alternative to server-side Java.
.Net hype is a full frontal assault on Java by Microsoft. And possibly, Mono might help them*. Once MS have killed off Java and replaced it with .Net, they are only fighting on one front, and can put all their resources to killing Linux.
Java is the number one REASON Linux is eating into Microsofts server profits. The
*When I wrote a post on this on a previous topic, one of the Mono developers answered and said they were a bit worried about this too, and they had a Java/Mono interoperability project. However, it was currently inactive due to a lack of developers.
>>"Unfortunately, Linux would be the big loser if that were to happen."
>Linux would be at exactly the same spot in which is started.
Well, except it might lose an enormous amount of good will in the business world.
Boss:"You said Mono was compatible, but now it turns out it isn't, and we have to spend huge amounts of money migrating back to Windows. This is the last time we try to bet our business on this open source crap. Oh, and you don't have to bother showing up for work tomorrow."
You would still be free to use it at home of course, but it would be unfortunate for us who want to use it at work because we enjoy it, and/or because we think it would be good for our organization.
I started writing an angry answer to the "I don't need no steeenking social skills" guy, then I read your post and decided not to bother, I wouldn't come up with anything so eloquent. Well said.
I got a job as a sysadmin 6 months ago, my first permanent full time job. There were 120 people who applied to the job, 10 who were interviewed, and I was the one who landed the job. They said a BIG reason was that I seemed like a nice and patient guy, which was important when working with people who might not be very computer literate.
And I agree, most geeks don't understand how difficult it is being a good boss or good salesperson. If you don't think it sounds fun, you should be grateful someone else does it for you, not look down on them.
Here is hoping they all win the grand prize: jailtime for fraud!
Does anyone else remember the great Atari/Amiga/DOS Dune adventure/strategy game by the French company Cryo from 1992? It was based partly on the book and partly on the Lynch film. I believe the same company tried again a year ago or so ago with "Frank Herbert's Dune", this time more based on the Sci-Fi channel mini-series. The reviews this time was more so-so.
The best thing about the original game was the atmosphere, helped along by the great soundtrack and the impressive architecture...
You can download the whole game here!
review
another..
another...
Thanks.
I'm not a fan of the subscription type of licence, but as I said, it is not that much money...
Wasn't it Sun who recently suffered a major blow to their java language, when it was discovered that the java interpreter that ran on their own operating system (Solaris) was slower than the interpreter created for windows?
Why would this be a "major blow" to Java the language? If this is true, and not just FUD (as I suspect), all it would show that there is room for optimization of the virtual machine on Solaris, that is all. Big whoop.
Perhaps the author could have mentioned something about the price and support in the article?
I don't know if the price is official, or even finally decided yet. When I asked a Sun salesman a couple of weeks ago at the Networks Telecom Expo the price he mentioned was very reasonable, probably around $50-$100 if I remember correctly. That would include all licenses for included software such as Star Office of course.
He handed me a folder which states that the price includes 60 day installation support and one year of maintenance and feature upgrades, but the folder doesn't state any price. The folder doesn't include much else of interest, just a lot of salesspeak. I did get to try it out. It looked nice and was very quick and responsive, but I was a bit disappointed that it was just Yet Another Linux Distro with not much to distinguish it. It was only a beta though, and lots of the menues were empty because they hadn't finalised which Java and Linux apps they would include. Perhaps it will have something extra in the future.
Still, they had the best damn coffee at the expo, under a big "Java" banner. Delicious free latte! Mmm...
So go back and keep getting your news and political insight from a webpage that has a zoo animal for a logo.
;-)
I believe the native habitat for chimpanzees is Africa, not zoos.