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Sci-Fi Channel Looks for LGM in NASA Files
SharkJumper writes "The Sci-Fi channel expects to file a lawsuit within the week against NASA. They are attempting to gain access under the Freedom of Information Act to classified documents concerning a 1965 UFO sighting in Kecksburg, Pennsylvania. The Department of Defense, Army, and Air Force are next on their list. Here's Sci-Fi's account of the story."
Sure, I knew ya could.
Slashdotter are stupid and biased.
The people they're sueing all have literally billions of dollars to spare, the Sci-fi channel has maybe a few million. This might be combarable to SCO if they go through with it.
I have over 70 freaks, do you?
Interesting how companies with close ties to the DOD came up with advanced integrated circuits so soon afterwards. When was Intel founded?
"But we're not going to do it just to create buzz." Yeah, ok. Uh uh, whatever you say!
I didn't realize that you could sue to get your hands on classified documents under the freedom of information act. Things are classified for a reason.
Will be an increase in ratings for the scifi channel. It will be interesting to see how they fare against our Government in this
End of Line.
They have money to blow on stupid shit like this and yet they didn't have enough to keep Farscape going?
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
Far be it from me to say "get a life," but I have no problem saying "get a clue."
Kecksburg The Untold Story
information about the growing alien anal probing threat, or if people are even conscious of the efforts of extraterrestrial rectal examiners, then the alien terrorists win.
What other hope does a town with a name like Kecksburg have of ever being noticed? Just saying it makes my head hurt. Kecksburg. Kecksburg. Kecksburg...
Like NASA has nothing better to do than deal with some kooks and their overinflated-rumour-of-the-week. Maybe once this bit of nonsense is put to rest NASA can go back to doing some real science and Skiffy can actaully get some science fiction rolling again (as opposed to endless Knight Rider re-runs).
Sheesh.
Like others noted, sounds like publicity to me. Remember when the movie Signs came out, and Disney offered a sweepstakes where the winner would be sent to a "real" crop circle to help investigate it? This is pretty transparent, as the Sci-Fi channel aren't exactly in the documentary business, it would be more dramatic for them to say "We tried to get them to tell us, but Big Brother is keeping UFOs a secret." Imagine if, in response, the DoD declassifies and releases the files and they turn out to be REALLY anticlimactic, and only classified because they were using some new radar recievers at the time or something.
Yup...
I doubt the US government will give in very easily to this. I wouldn't be surprised if the president of the SciFi channel goes missing.
do unto others as you would have them do unto you
In December 1965, residents of Kecksburg, Pennsylvania watched a fireball descend into a heavily-forested area 40 miles from Pittsburgh. That night the area was cordoned off by the military, trucks and helicopters came and went, and the town was briefly placed under martial law.
Soon we will all be under control of the neo-conservatives, but only if it is the Will of Allah (peace be upon Him).
--Ziad Jarrah (one of the "9/11" pilots who ironically now flies for Saudi Airlines)
In any case, the little down is making the most of it. There isn't much else in the down. The only industry when I was there was a Pepsi bottling plant. That shut down and was converted later into an aluminum camper manufacturing plant. The only other thing in the town center is the firehall where they have linedancing on Friday nights. The firehall has a giant acorn shaped UFO replica on the top now. ;-)
The only thing that I can think of is that they are sightings of actual experimental military aircraft. Or else...
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
Clearly not what it used to.
It is standard practice that when submitting a request for public or declassified information from state and federal government agencies under the Freedom of Information Act, the angency must reply within 10 days. (The agency might also request a reasonable fee to accomodate researching and sending the information.) Of course, if 10 days expires, what do you do? Of course you "sue" the agency. Not "sue" in financial terms, but "sue" as in "bring this in front of the court to get a court order to release this information." And the government will not have to pay a penny to Sci-Fi, since all the court order will ask for is the release of the information. Simple as that.
Actually, many times agencies are not smart enough to even know about the FIA, and thus can easily use the incompetence excuse or "I never got it" even though you sent your request and have a proof of receipt that they did get it. Geez...
Cover your eyes and click this link!
Sending mental command: Mod up!
You want to know why you are not allowed to know?
Fuck you, that's why.
The government doesn't care that we want to know. There is no REASON for them to tell us. Sure, we elect them and all, but until you get at least 51% to vote to make a law to make the processes of government more open, it will never happen. Most likely, this issue will remain forever closed (or at least withheld) forever from us. It was probably missle testing or something that the public does not "need to know". If you want to find out what was/is inside Area 51 or who really killed JFK, you are better off inventing a time machine and reading about all of this later in the history books. Either that, or run for president and divulge all this information to the public (not likely).
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
Is it trying to improve ratings by becoming something like the "hoax investigation" channel?
Instead of dumping money into lawyers pockets, why don't they instead go back to exploring Science Fiction history, or trends in current science fiction development on an international level?
Maybe they will try to hire off Geraldo Rivera from Fox News next. Or maybe Rush Limbaugh.
They should put that lawsuit money back into funding good shows, like Farscape (I'm a little biased. Sorry).
Quoting the story:
The results of Sci-Fi's new investigation into the incident will air Friday in a documentary hosted by Bryant Gumbel called "The New Roswell: Kecksburg Exposed."
Gumbel seems to be following the well-worn path of fallen journalists blazed so spectacularly by Geraldo Rivera... kind of sad, really.
This doesn't bother me - it's right in character for Sci-Fi, considering the audience they are going after. What's gonna cheese me off is when I see this in a documentary on The Discovery Channel, or (God forbid) THE HISTORY NETWORK. (shudder).
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
The Sci-Fi Channel has disappointed me so much to the point that I've stopped watching it, on principle. They've canceled good sci-fi shows like Babylon 5 and Farscape, only to replace them with pseudoscientific crap that costs pennies to make: Sightings, Jon Edwards, UFO "documentaries", and crop circle "documentaries", amongst others. They've even declared their intention to stop producing science fiction shows and focus more on fantasy shows. WTF?! This is the Sci-Fi Channel!
I'm hoping for a good science fiction channel that won't give in to spreading pseudoscientific bullcrap just because it might get them better ratings. I'm looking for a station with integrity to throw my support behind, and the Sci-Fi Channel is not that station.
Cyde Weys Musings - Scrutinizing the inscrutable
The channel is Universal studios. Arguably probably one of the most wealthy and diversified corps on the planet.
That said it probably is a stunt, but a cool one at least.
Puto
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
Imagine if you will ..the leader of the fifth invader force speaking to the commander in chief...
"They're made out of meat."
"Meat?"
"Meat. They're made out of meat."
"Meat?"
"There's no doubt about it. We picked several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."
"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?"
"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."
"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."
"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."
"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."
"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in the sector and they're made out of meat."
"Maybe they're like the Orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."
"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take too long. Do you have any idea the life span of meat?"
"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the Weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."
"Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads like the Weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."
"No brain?"
"Oh, there is a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat!"
"So... what does the thinking?"
"You're not understanding, are you? The brain does the thinking. The meat."
"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"
"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you getting the picture?"
"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."
"Finally, Yes. They are indeed made out meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."
"So what does the meat have in mind?"
"First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the universe, contact other sentients, swap ideas and information. The usual."
"We're supposed to talk to meat?"
"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there? Anyone home?' That sort of thing."
"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"
"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."
"I thought you just told me they used radio."
"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."
"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"
"Officially or unofficially?"
"Both."
"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in the quadrant, without prejudice, fear, or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."
"I was hoping you would say that."
"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"
"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say?" `Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"
"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."
"So we just pretend there's no one home in the universe."
"That's it."
"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
And what is that reason, exactly? That's what the plaintiff is asking here. Can the government continue to offer a legitimate reason for keeping decades-old documents classified? If so, they'll stay classified.
Let's face it-- even if those documents contain information about state-of-the-art (at the time) US aircraft, it's somewhat unlikely that there's still a reason to keep them under wraps. If we didn't have mechanisms like FOIA to periodically re-evaluate the need for secrecy on ancient documents, everything would stay classified out of sheer inertia, even when there was clearly no longer a reason for secrecy.
Sounds like they are acting out a Stargate Episode where some reporters hassled SG-1 and got bird's eye view of the Promethius. In that episode, they ended up letting a Gould take control of the ship. So, here we go again.... the world's on the brink of destruction.
.....
Will the *real* Col Jack O'Neal please come forward and save us from the Sci-Fi channel!
...Things are classified for a reason...
Yeah, an embarrasing reason.
Shh.
Everyone knows that the LGM (lone gunman) was on the grassy knoll, why ask NASA?
Oh wait you mean Little Green Men: that's my sister you insensitive clod.
John.
A Satellite with an RTG falls back to earth, possibly contaminating some ground with a bit of plutonium. Case closed.
Stick Men
I whole-heartedly support the Sci-Fi channel's efforts. It will finally settle the question, "Are the people obsessed with UFOs a bunch of paranoid pseudoscientific jackasses?"
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
What if they find something? Will they have to change their network name to the SciFact channel? Seems like they're digging their own grave!
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
Take off the tinfoil hats and crawl out of the bunker. The fuzzy green men and grey men aren't here, sorry. 'Investigative journalist' indeed.
LGM... It took me a couple seconds
You know you've done to much math then you see "LGM" and first think "Least Greatest Multiple".
Never has so much been typed to say so little.
The odds that anyone can put up a geocities website and make up odds: 1 in 4.
http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/baloney.htm
And if this interests you, read Sagan's book, A Demon-Haunted World.
Alien invasions, abductions, etc. are great topics for movies, comic books, video games, and other forms of entertainment -- and the domain of the Sci-Fi Channel is, in fact, entertainment. But it saddens me to know that people are going to see stunts like this and begin to confuse fact with fiction -- you know, the "Fi" in Sci-Fi. :-)
People of the world, I beg you: please, please, don't take anything as fact without bothering to examine it rationally and critically.
Official report:
On xx/xx/xxxx at approximately xxxx hours, a xxxxx was sighted near xxxx xxxxxx. Our analisys is as follows...
Conclusion:
xxxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxxxx at this time. Although, please be advised that xxxx xxxxxx xx xxxxx.
Boy, I'd love to be the person who gets to filter out all the classified stuff!
Online Starcraft RPG? At
Dietary fiber is like asynchronous IO-- Non-blocking!
Now, I'm guessing the 'like my penis' part is what got this moderated as a troll, but I found it very useful, as I had no freakin' idea what LGM stood for.
I live in the general vicinity of Kecksburg, PA. I can tell you with all certainty that any "UFO" sighting was certainly brought on by a combination of swamp gases, moonshine, and unchecked, rampant coitus among close family members named "Clem" and "Darlita" through several generations...
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
If only people would apply Occam's razor and just THINK about a few of these huge "UFO cover ups", they could relax.
Think about the whole Area 51 and Roswell thing for example. Ok, something weird crashed out of the sky, there were some bodies, and the government covered everything up. But it happened shortly after WWII, during a period where we were employing ex-Nazi rocket scientists to build us more advanced airplanes, didn't it? And, a more reasonable explanation of the Roswell crash would be that an experimental, top secret craft had a malfunction and bit the dust.
Consider that that whole Southwest is used for the testing of advanced aircraft. Groom Lake (in Nevada), another mecca for the tinfoil hat crowd, is an aircraft test facility. The stealth fighter, for example, was developed during the early 1970's, and was tested extensively there. OF COURSE there were lots of UFO sightings. They were testing their planes! Naturally SOMEONE would see them. We can't make 'em invisible (yet).
Now, fast forward to the Pennsylvania crash. SOMETHING crashed, and the government seems to want to keep it quiet. Does this mean there were little green men? Nope. It means that something failed on another one of the government's experimental toys (the operative word being "experimental"), a few unlucky test pilots probably bit the dust crashing it into a forest, and it's unfortunate and sad but NOT a sci-fi mystery.
We'll probably see whatever aircraft it is in twenty years or so when it's declassified and they use it to blow someone up in a future war. We'll go "Holy cow, that's a cool airplane, I wonder when they built that thing!" and check out the TechTV show about it after getting our anime fix...
Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
Reality is relatively! I am convinced most UFO sightings are just government "projects" gone wrong. No one travels at the speed of light or faster to visit earth just to crash into the ground. "I can do light-speed but I can't figure out aerodynamic flight!" What a bunch of crap. There are no aliens except for the little brown men that keep crossing our border from Mexico. Get over it.
IF (a big if) there are LGM's visiting us, they obviously have done a good job of hiding it. Sci-Fi is not the paragon of virtue to sniff this one out.
"Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect."- Steven Wright
What stops the governemnt from just making stuff up? "Sure, we'll release douments to you." "Hey, why are they all dated yesterday?"
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
I'm missing something--what are they actually suing for? It would be helpful to know what they expect to get if they win the FOIA suit.
One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
WHEREAS,
We cancelled the critically acclaimed FARSCAPE.
WHEREAS,
We cancelled the critically acclaimed INVISIBLE MAN.
WHEREAS,
We cancelled the fan-adored THE CHRONICLE
WHEREAS,
We turned STARGATE SG-1 into total crap.
WHEREAS,
We did a crappy, low-budget version of DUNE.
WHEREAS
We replaced these shows with classics like TREMORS: THE SERIES and JOHN EDWARDS
WHEREAS,
We are about to rape the collective memories of classic sci-fi fans with our re-imaginging of BATTLESTAR: GALACTICA.
WE HEREBY
Attempt a really lame publicity stunt to try and appeal to the lowest common denominator of sci-fi fans there are: the UFO nuts.
Wake up, Bendenecker. The show sucked. Characters were cliches, the "plot" was flat.
Just because you jacked of double time to the space tits doesn't mean it was a quality show.
Just quality tits.
One of my favorite lines from an old conspiracy show about aliens was a backlit, voice-modified guy saying "Look, it's not aliens; it's military research. The fastest non-rocket-powered vehicle in the air right now that the public knows about is Lockheed-Martin's Blackbird, the SR-71, and that was designed forty years ago. Forty years before that, the fastest thing in the air was a biplane, a Sopwith Camel. Forty years before that, the fastest thing in the air was a balloon."
"That hasn't stopped happening."
Mike Hoye
There was an organization, I think it was Rand, which undertook a study for the U.S. government about the psychological effect that news of the discovery of extraterrestrial life would have on the Earth's population. Rand's conclusion was that earth's people couldn't handle it, and thus the recomendation was that any evidence of ETs was to be hidden from the public at all costs. I would suppose that this study is what is at the root of all the secrecy behind UFO reports.
... when NASA has to waste time dealing with crap like this. Anyone living in the US ought to be pissed at the SciFi channel for wasting government money on frivilous lawsuits. The SciFi channel will no doubt spin the lawsuit into some insipid UFO program, blurring the line between fact and fantasy and peddling this silly myth to yet another credulous, drooling generation of Americans.
One small step for the SciFi channel.
One giant leap for the ignorance of mankind.
"who really killed JFK"
Since statements like this show that you've already come to a conclusion without vital facts then nothing they could do or say would ever satisfy you.
This finally lends UFO researchers that much-needed air of respectability they've been missing - to be championed by the same people who brought you John Edwards and Cleopatra 2525.
Weaselmancer
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Towards the end of the special, a big latex-covered stuntman will run out of the woods, Bryant will piss his pants on national TV, then Shannen Doherty will make some snide comments in a black strapless fashion mistake.
Case closed.
Roswell and Kecksburg?
I guess UFO's don't crash in the heart of Brooklyn. Or thier pilots have strict instructions not to crash in populated areas.
Or the aliens technology has improved so much since the 1940's that thier Saucers just don't crash anymore. Better than an SR-71
It's LGP you sexist insensitive clod!
.
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
Are aliens gay and into s&m or have they found a fountain of knowledge in people's assholes?
As soon as my anus heals I'm calling my congressman to complain.
"Why would the military cover up something that would let them double their budget if it was revealed?"
Stefan
If their technology is so far advanced (it must be to travel light-years to come here), why do they need the lights to fly at night? Hmmm.
People who say "money does not buy happiness" are just people without money trying to make themselves feel better.
Just what NASA needs.... a law suit.
C'mon guys, that's going against the entire REASON the Sci-Fi channel was created (other than to make money, of course). Hurting NASA over something this stupid is a classic cutting off your nose to spite your face trick.
Go sue the DoD... they have lots of money from the White House. Let NASA keep what little bit they get so they can take some real photos of flying saucers that aren't on grainy black-and-white polaroids...
Of course it's a stupid publicity stunt. Of course it's ludicrous. Sci-Fi is doing this so that they'll be able to air a special show on their channel and make a bunch of money from the advertising revenues. The average American moron eats this shit up. Sci-Fi is just serving their constituents.
Hey, if they make enough money, maybe they will bring back Farscape. Or, better yet, they'll pickup Firefly! Yeah!
Nuclear weapons details from that period are still classified.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Even though I've watched the show, every time I hear the name, I can't help but think of the little greasy white castle burgers.
Dogma - "let's just say we'd like to avoid any empirical entanglements."
Right, this from the guy who helped establish SETI. He wouldn't know Bologna if he was having a large stick of it rammed up his ass.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
The SF Channel had . . . well, not a great start. But along with reruns of hoary old TV series they ran shows about space exploration, and even had some coverage about written science fiction (remember the review show where they let Harlan Ellison rant about stuff?).
That stuff is gone now, because it didn't rate all that well with the demographics that advertisers want the most.
Put another way: It's all about money. Every time slot has to earn its keep. Dumb-ass sensationalist documentaries are cheap to make and draw an audiance of mouth-breathing impulse buyers who don't have the sense or energy to change channels when confronted with nonsense, so that's what we get.
If they could get away with it, cable channels would show infomercials 24/7. The cost per eyeball is low, but they have no production costs.
"I'm looking for a station with integrity to throw my support behind"
The TV biz doesn't care about you. You shouldn't care about them.
Stefan
Let's assume for a moment that there was a huge conspiracy to cover up UFO, obviously including billions of dollars, thousands of people and high level goverment support. And just by accident they dont have fake documents just in case something like this would happen? Uh-huh. No matter what the case is, the documents will say that it was just a satellite or something like that.
After that can we install a fleshlight in a Microsoft Actimates Barney the Dinosaur doll?!!!!
Really? I didn't know the US Government had Billions of Dollars to spare. Last time I heard anything, they were half a trillion in debt THIS year!
Science FICTION
The SCI FI Channel will premiere a new documentary on the Kecksburg incident hosted by Bryant Gumbel, The New Roswell: Kecksburg Exposed, on Oct. 24 at 9 p.m. ET/PT.
<a href="http://www.joblessjimmy.com">Work is dumb and so is Jobless Jimmy.</a>
Anything embarassing or illegal is classified. FOIA is a very good thing.
MOD PARENT UP
The same folks that told me Blender is everything Maya is and more are now complaining that SciFi has been bluring the line between truth and fiction!
The CNN article states that former Clinton White House chief of staff John Podesta is a party to this lawsuit, and I find that very intriguing. The White House Chief of Staff is one of the most important positions in the executive, effectively a cabinet level position in terms of power wielded - surely this man must have been privy to a lot of information which lead him to believe that there was something to this Kecksburg incident. Now I'm *really* curious...
"The slave who knows his master's will and does not get ready...will be be beaten with many blows."Luke 12:47-48
I remember thinking what a pathetic bunch of losers these people were. We're now a decade later it is "deja vu all over again."
Quit whining; your little show is gone. The majority of us didn't watch when it was on, and now that it is gone we just don't care.
Al Capone's vault!
.. is that slashdot seems to be more open minded then most internet forums yet are so close minded to beilive that we aren't the only ones in this infinite universe. So they havn't found any planets in our scanable ranges, I doubt I could include the ammount of 0's needed to display the percentage that this really is (think: .000..tons more zeros here..001%)
.000..tons more zeros here..001%)
Then theres "the we dont know enough about physics so it cant be possible" argument Of everything there is to know it would take an equally long percentage to tell the % of things we know. (again
This is the same type of mentality that makes many countrys hate americans, and if were not smart its this kind of thinking that will cause the world to become the US of the galaxy.
If you would like to see these documents yourself you can go ahead and make your own FOIA request.
t ml
Some instructions can be found at http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/foia/howtofoia.h
The contacts addresses can be found at http://www.usdoj.gov/04foia/foiacontacts.htm
If you are interested in making the government work for you then issue requests! There aren't many easier ways to get government information that you are interested in.
When you issue a request, the government is required to submit an answer within within 20 business days. Furthermore, if they deny your request they must give you a reason and you have the ability to appeal and or sue. If you are publishing the information you obtain for the public good you shouldn't even have to pay for the request.
Share bicycle touring info worldwide: http://wheretocycle.com
sci-fi can waste all the money they want on stupid "aliens exist" crap yet they refuse to fund an actual good piece of fiction rather than this silly alien conspiracy crap. ugh
My take is that something DID occur in Kecksburg, but it wasn't alien-based. More likely this was some form of military test vehicle or satellite. There was some suggestion that it might have been a crashed Soviet COSMOS satellite (nuc powered) but there were no such satellites in orbit and over the area at the correct time for an errant crash.
This was what, 1965? Height of the Cold-War, also at the height of the Apollo program. It could have been a NASA test vehicle, complete with simian occupants (to explain the so-called scream/screech some reported after the military arrived).
It would be invalid, as far as I'm concerned, for there to be continued secrecy about ANY vehicles tested by NASA or the military at any point up to at least the 1970s. NOTHING that predates this is worthy of secrecy as any and all technology associated with it is pathetically outdated by now. There may be ethical/public health-related reasons why the military might be interested in keeping a lock on anything like an old black project (radiation leakage/exposure to the general public, etc) but even this is illegitimate, unethical (take your freakin' medicine for endangering citizens), and indefensible.
I hope the Sci-Fi Channel comes out with something for their troubles. It wont be extraterrestrial in origin but it will likely be interesting. And perhaps damning to those who deserve to be damned.
In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
Except that I'm a dork and Sliders was purchased from FOX well before Stargate was destroyed.
... but creating such an unbelievable hybrid character was the worst of all possible outcomes, and with an infinity of quantum worlds to work with, that is saying a lot.
... seeing it die in such a manner was worse than seeing it cancelled outright would have been.
And, while FOX had already obliterated Sliders into a "rehash of some movie/novel/other non-original story into a lame episode" final season (remember 'Stoker' ripping off Interview with a Vampire, the undead episode ripping off night of the living dead, etc. ad nauseum?), SciFi finished the job with their introduction of "Mallary", the Quinne/Mallary hybrid jackass who was less likable than your average Kromag. They should have killed Quinne Mallary instead, or had him abducted by Kromags
Sliders was a great series
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Unless, the documents don't contain information about state of the art US aircraft and the US has no real idea what the hell it was. That would be a damn good reason to keep it locked up - and quite frankly, I'd agree with them.
Ahem.
Am I wrong in my assumption that the government of the USA exists to serve the public in the public interest? (You know, "Government for the people, of the people, and by the people?" Sure, it's bullshit, but it's bullshit worth striving for.)
In that case, the government has no right to hide information from the public, except in the interest of public safety. (For instance, the deployment of US nuclear submarines might not be good public knowledge.) There is no other good reason for the government to hide information from its people.
In fact, I'd go as far as to say that the government has a responsibility to keep the public informed of important events. I would go further: I would say it is the public's responsibility to audit the functioning of the government on a regular, intensive basis.
The FOIA allows this auditing, even if it is 25 years after the fact. The only information that might need to remain classified is some information which has not changed over 25 years.
The FOIA has revealed some very interesting facts, like the funding by President Kennedy of the longest-running terrorist campaign against any nation (Operation Mongoose, against Cuba, which ran for many years; it may continue to this day). To FOIA is there for us to learn about our government; the government does not have the right to select the information we learn about it.
That would be like Microsoft choosing which memos are admitted as evidence during its anti-trust trials.
As far as this UFO thing goes: there has been no plausible evidence or explanaition to support visitation from other planets. Occam's Razor indicates it's nothing more than a fireball, just a regular, crashing-to-earth rock that left a trail of vaporized carbon, ice, and rock.
But, who knows? Maybe there *was* some sort of alien landing.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Don't you people realize those "strange markings" are always harmless doodles and decorations put in place by mechanical engineers with a diminished sense of role or identity? Were I involved in a space project, I'd try to win management into allowing me to decorate an exterior face of the device with cuneiform, just for the funny factor.
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
I'm not so sure about non-dairy creamer. Does that mean it's really aliens that have been dehydrated and ground to dust?
When I was living in the US, I worried about non-dairy creamer too. Coming as I do from a dairying country (New Zealand), "non-dairy" is anathema.
Then I talked to my father, who is in the dairy industry. Non-dairy creamer is made from sodium cassienate. Which is made from cassien. Which is made from milk. And the cassien market is dominated by New Zealand.
Support the New Zealand dairy industry - buy non-dairy creamer.
Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
It's a point of interest on which events can be blamed. That's how the media works, after all.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
If you'd like access to other FIOA material that has been recovered before check out here, The Black Vault . The founder has gone through much work and collected quite a bit of material on UFO's and lots of other stuff.
First, it was a joke, and pissing off the SETI crowd is just too fun and easy. But, between SETI and his shitty books, Sagan has always been on the frontier of pseudoscience. Just seems a bit much, and seeing a quote regarding scientific bullshit from Sagan is hilarious.
Second of all, are you saying the Drake Equation is crap? That there's simply nothing out there?
Now, if you want to really evaluate this, Drake's missing a term, as I see it. Namely, the the probability that we would recognize a signal if we saw it.
Ultimately, I just don't see SETI as anything that could be really called science, as they haven't yet collected any real evidence - just the absence of it. And this can never prove or disprove a hypothesis. So it's not so much about not believing in the existence of aliens - it's more the faith that we wouldn't know an alien signal if it smacked us in the ass.
Read "The Borderlands Of Science" by Michael Shermer for further discussion about SETI and what sets it apart from the frothing conspiracy fools.
Not the point. They're not frothing conspirators because they have nothing to froth about. I simply see SETI as a frivolous, Quixotic waste of time and money.
In short, SETI is a shot in the dark, and based on a premise for which there is no proof - life on other worlds - but it is done in the same way we discovered germs or broke the sound barrier, by adhering to scientific principles.
Not really. In those cases, there was the actual ability to devise, evaluate, and revise theories/methods (breaking the sound barrier was engineering, not science). With SETI, it's not a full scientific method yet because they haven't finished a single iteration yet. They STILL don't have any evidence. And until they have anything real, they're pretty much playing with themselves.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Stories like this make me realize our, as people, prioritites.
We *want* to be rational and logical, but we *need* to dream of marvelous things greater than ourselves.
While Occams Razor clearly applies, it is much more pleasant to dream.
There are 01 kinds of cars in the world. The General Lee, and everything else.
Crash in 1965.
Freedom of Information, in or around 1976.
SciFi Channel founded when? About 1995 give or take a couple.
Public interest in UFO's and mysterious government coverups? Since 1947 at least.
Other programs that have explored things like this? Sightings. Encounters. The Discovery Channel. Steven Speilberg.
Project Blue Book. How many years?
And it takes until now to realize that we may have a big deal here? What has taken them so long?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Dogbert, I didn't know you posted to Slashdot.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
They're made out of meat, and they send Spam.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
You aren't going to convince a diehard, they don't operate on logic. Suppose the DoD declassifies everything relating to all supposed UFO incidents including all documents, pictures, video, tech specs, etc. All turn out to be boring shit classified for technology reasons. Wouldn't matter, the diehard UFO believers would say they just fabricated it all to get us to shut up and it is PROOF of a conspiricy. They'd find "inconsistencies" just like the moon-landing hoax believers do.
Dammit, remember, you must use FIRE on trolls! Now where's the gasoline, the matches, and the razor blades?
If they reveal it, they have to account for the money going into it. Far easier to just re-direct some funds earmarked for something else to a project, than reveal it and have to face the costly scrutiny and investigation by the accountants.
yeah, same here.
like uranus
There are many WWII documents related to the technical aspects of cryptanalysis that are still classified. The NSA has declassified a lot of material from that era and up through the 1950s, such as the Venona program.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
There is stuff that remains classified because making it public would embarrass or alienate a foreign government or leader. You might not care about it but the State Department doesn't want to create new problems.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
If Sci Fi wins, then the floodgates for all the *other* Big Brother kooks requesting FOIA docs will be opened... Imagine the volumes of requests that would come in for John Lennon & JFK..
If they lose, they can claim "Big Brother is STILL hiding something!"
Either way, it just draws attention to themselves in a strange fashion.
Yeah, now he goes quiet. Next time you'll be more careful about trying to pass yourself off as more than one person. :)
Good night. (For real this time. It's hard to say away from something as amusing as this.)
NanoGator.
I'm sure there are all sorts of keen objects up Johnathon Edwards' ass. Those SciFi channel execs are always putting their heads up there; I'm sure they'll find something of interest to UFO buffs if they just looked closely. For example, suppose you've just joined SciFi managment from MTV and you've retrieved the miner's helmet that you lost up Justin Timberlake's ass (finally!). You've strapped it on and you're poking around in Johnathon Edwards' ass and you find a large, round metal object. Now I know if's likely that it's just a collection plate from one of his seances, but maybe--just maybe--it's a UFO. Maybe if you just (grunt) put your arm in with (grunt) your Polaroid camera and (zazzzp) snap a slightly blurry photo, you can create a show with Johnathon Frakes as host, as well as sell it to Art Bell's web page!
Pigs on the wing? Same deal. Gotta be some feathers and pork rinds up there.
Just because Johnathon Edwards' ass has been nearly reamed to tattered, bloody hamburger doesn't mean it doesn't have some value. Find new ways to exploit this valuable property, SciFi!
Sincerely,
Johnathon Edwards
>> There is no other good reason for the government to hide information from its people.
It's classified to keep it away from the bad guys, not the American public. Suppose someone declassified every document created during the Manhattan Project. How long would it be before some publisher (or web geek) published detailed plans for the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? By my calendar, those files are almost 60 years old, but I sure don't want them in the public domain.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
What are they hoping to accomplish with a lead time of 3 days?
The show airs the 24th.
Hardly enough time to re-tape anything, if by some random chance, the documents happen to prove it WAS a UFO.
Just once, I'd like it if someone called me "Sir".
Without adding, "You're creating a scene."
How does Sci-Fi know that there are any documents in the first place? That's the whole point of classifying something: keep it a secret.
I might claim NASA has classified documents proving that von Braun was really a time traveller from the future. No one would believe NASA's denials.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
And this is why it should be illegal to watch the xfiles more than once a week.
I know next to nothing about Kecksburg but why debate the show's merits before it even plays? If there's something to it then let's see the proof. If there isn't then I guess we'll know after the show.
I think those who think the possibility that aliens have visited our planet is next to nothing have very little upon which to base their estimates upon except perhaps current space flight models which we might well find laughable in a few decades or centuries.
Likewise, those who think eye-witness testimony is good enough to prove a whole range of crazy theories have minds way too open for their own good...they're lucky their brains don't fall out.
To (sorta) quote the sage, "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreampt of in our philosophies." I believe this is an apt saying and our age of technological progress proves that it is more true now than it ever has been. Could aliens be visiting the earth? Sure, I suppose. I mean, we would visit other planets if we could and we are sorta heading in that direction with NASA. Are they actually visiting us? Maybe only the government knows but I can tell you I sure as heck don't.
Peace folks...let's just watch the show and find out if they have something worth saying. If not, time to switch to The Simpsons then!
Will
So, then, what are the classification levels within DOD? Are there other levels for, say, the CIA or the FBI or the NSA? Is there actually and for real something called 'Majestic'?
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Someone mentioned a fireman seen some acorn shaped object at the seen. So what? Isnt it entirely possible that -that was not what crashed but was brought to the scene as a recovery container or other? Oh yeah..never thought about that..
Anyway I find it all too coincidental that a russian satalitte on the same day and year deorbited. I dont really care if they ruled it out as a suspect, give us details as why it was ruled out or I'll just assume being the logical person I am, your wrong, that in fact some part of it broke loose.
Of course in any thing like this you assume it is a government or manmade object, (classified I'm sure) but meteors fragments ect also come to mind.
Finally dont forget the nature of classified info in some cases, the reason its classified and stays that way is because of a public health conspiracy issue. You'll just have to trust me on that one, or think about it for awhile.
What the hell I cant resist since we are on the topic, "Taken" is stupid! Spielberg shoot yourself. X-files on the other hand is pretty good stuff. Then there is the original Star Trek, but you rarely see it. I mean Star Trek Defines SciFiction, I never even seen half the episodes. All of them are good.
Will they do the same thing they did with the roswell dig?
Im sure they will just do their show then never tell us what they discovered. Im still waiting on the results of the mass spec. tests!
~ Detonating a nuclear device within the city limits will result in a 500 dollar fine.
Uh, you might wanna go back to math class there. Least Common Multiple, or Greatest Common Divisor perhaps, but what the fuck is a Least Greatest Multiple?
That makes me just burn up inside wondering what the Holy Cow things were. If it made him say that, and it's so important that national security would be compromised... there must be some bad, yet cool, mojo buried in those files.
I think a good way to make guesses as to the nature of the classified things is to take a good look at the guy and see if he seems to be considering defecting to a little-known island nation, check if he buys an excess of ginseng, visits the Valley of the Shmoo, etc. If he found something really, really disturbing, interesting, incredible, etc., it'd be bound to show up somewhere in his life.
Especially check if he seems to be going insane. (I like to refer to that as the "Lovecraft Test.")
"Because the military budget is already quadruple what people think it is."
This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
The U.S. is not some benificent society obligated to help the world. It's a country created explicitly to avoid the rest of the world. Americans have every right to be partisan in defense of their nation, to act in their perceived self-interest, and no obligation to "play fair" when choosing between people like Batista and Castro. Both were/are scum, but Batista was scum whose behavior benefited the U.S., and Castro is scum whose behavior benefited America's enemy. Why would any sensible society choose to support the ally of an enemy?
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
They kept MKULTRA a secret for a long time didn't they. And most of the subprojects are still undefined. If you underestimate the military industrial complex's ability to keep a secret if it's really important to them then you need to go re-read your history books about this part of our goverment.
No references on this, but some PBS program was saying that there are still secrets kept from WWII which would make them longer than 50 years old. They mentioned that since a few had been released a year or two ago.
8-PP
A little over a hundred years or so ago "known physics of air travel" would have indicated that human flight was impossible. Why would our current understanding of the physics of space flight apply to a civilization that might be thousands or millions of years more advanced than our own?
You're trying to get docs out of the goverment that they hvae sole possession of, with no copies anywhere but in their hands...
and you expect them to be real?
How many times have you heard of modifications made when the goverment gets involved.
Roswell files/people, JFK video altered, papers give to the media.. after censoring (i've seen 400 page docs with only 2 words not censored.. The and fake)
Yea, good luck on getting the Gov' to hand over evidence of a coverup and aliens. I'm sure you'll get just what you asked for..
either fake docs or 500 pages of censored pages.
Natinal security you know..
Welcome to the End
Why don't they just ask John Edwards?
Wow are *you* guessing...wrong I might add. I never said there are no aliens. Simply that the differences between us would probably preclude us from recognizing a large fraction of what something else might call communication.
One could say this same thing about the Higgs Boson...noones found it yet, so why bother looking. But this is the basis of scientific enquiry; you just happen to be colouring it with a sure knowledge that it's a waste of time..
A bit different. The Higgs boson theory is the product of an actual theory that is tested and based on many rounds of hypothesis/test/revise/repeat. SETI isn't. It's simply the conjecture that there might be something out there. As Rutherford would have said, that's basically stamp collecting. There's no application of the scientific theory there. There has yet to be collected ANY evidence at all. The Higgs *would* be the same if it were the first particle to be searched for using quantum theory, but it isn't - that method has yielded a ton of quarks, other leptons, bosons, mesons, etc. SETI has yielded shit.
Just so I'm clear - I don't presume to know if aliens *exist*. I simply think that, based on probabilities, looking for them is a complete waste of time.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
"In that case, the government has no right to hide information from the public, except in the interest of public safety. (For instance, the deployment of US nuclear submarines might not be good public knowledge.) There is no other good reason for the government to hide information from its people."
There are good reasons to keep relatively mundane information from the public.
Known locations of native american burial sites are no longer marked on official public maps because the ones that are marked get disturbed and looted. The tribes have asked the Dept of Interior to remove the notations, and Interior complied.
Also, when scientific agencies produce reports (studies, investigations, or whatever you want to call them) they are often subject to a form of colleague review process. The US Supreme Court has ruled that colleague review comments are not subject to FOIA release, because the threat of public questioning over review comments prevents the review process from working. Without a functioning review process, the agencies publish poor science littered with inaccuracies, and the people are not served by this circumstance.
Yes, science must be questioned for it to be worthwhile, and it needs to be able to stand up to questions -- that's how we advance. But some comments need to be made without them being published, such as "cut this section, you really haven't proved it", and then the section is cut. If reviews are made public, much ado is made of the hypothesis that has been proven "therefore it must be false and cannot be proven!" instead of the 14 that have been proven. Perhaps a better example would be a reviewer asking "Can you prove this?" This will get misread as indicating shoddy proof. Review comments need to be protected in order for them to work.
Actually, the team designing the B-1 that was deployed in the 1980s borrowed design elements from a Nazi-built Horton 18 long-range bomber that was brought back at the end of WWII (1945) and kept in government storage (ignored) for almost 40 years.
The Horton was meant to be capable of striking targets in the Continental US from Germany, and its 'stealth' was an accidental side-effect of the sweptback wings and curved fusilage surfaces needed to make this long trip at high speed with the German jet engines of the day. Its own test engineers were completely surprised by its radar properties.
The jets built in Europe after WWII were designed with 'conventional' frames (with structural elements often at right angles, which results in a strong radar return), so post-war jets, designed at relative leisureand with 'common sense' economies, did not have the stealth features that were stumbled onto by the now-forgotten Horton.
So a 40 year time frame does *not* mean 'obsolete' - but who's to say we might not derive more benefit from forcing the government to review what it is hiding, rather than letting it languish, ignored, like the Horton. Younger readers may not realize that is not uncommon for technology in the 20th century to remain undeveloped for decades after a successful 'proof of concept'.
On a purely fictional note, think of the many SF universes, like Star Trek's Federation, which seem to have so many undeveloped technologies available for the resident engineering genius to turn into hitherto unseen devices. (Yeah, the real reason for that is lazy or gimmicky writing - but people sometimes find fiction more believable than history) Over the next few deacdes, as we increasingly use our scientific and technical tools to build increasingly sophiticated tools, which in turn, create entirely new capabilities, we will probably have MORE, not LESS, unexploited technical capabilities that languish for decades until someone picks them up and runs with them. Our new knowledge and abilities will outpace our development dollars and the inspiration of those who determine product and technical timelines.
This is both good and bad. It leaves a lot of potential open for individual hackers: software, hardware, genetic , EM, crypto, and who knows what-all else. We may be some of those small inventors, but we also may not agree with the goals, methods or devices built by *other* individuals with the same potential power.
I used to love that chanel but their programing decisions, outright hostility toward organized fanbase, and backwards politics changed that. I'm not supprised that they are willing to pour money into silly publicity stunt like this one. Over and over again they evidenced that: 1. They have no clue what's Science Fiction. Otherwise why would they insist on airing thrillers, horrors, fantasy movies, cheesy reality shows, john edward and the pseudoscientific UFO garbage? Seriously - if I want to watch a UFO documentary I will switch to Discovery cause they have at least some credibility... And if I would want to see a reality prank show (why on earth would I ever want to do that?), Scare Tactics would probably not be my first choice. When I put on Scifi I want to see science fiction - I can get all the other TV garbage elswhere. 2. They have no clue what is their core audience. Instead of catering their programing to the well established fandoms, and Science fiction enthusiasts they try to appeal to the lowest common denominator viewer - a reality show loving, jerry springer watching, dim witted couch potato with no attention span, and utter lack of taste. Sadly such individuals usually also suffer from scifi phobia (you know these people - "scifi is for geeks and stuff"). The sad truth is that people who would love Scare Tactics and John Edward probably will never even find these shows because of the social stigma attached to the term "Science Fiction." People who watch Scifi, and are more than willing to support their favorite network are usually already into Scifi - and they demand quality shows such as Farscape, Babylon 5, I-man and etc... Brainless programming such as Scare Tactics, John Edward, Dream Team and so on will not sustain the interest of an inteligent and versatile Science Fiction fan for longer than 3.5 microts. 3. They have a tendency to be extremely shortsighted. This is evidenced for example in their progaming decissions. They seemed supprised that ratings for Farscape slipped in S4. Well, duh - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why. That's what happens when you don't promote or advertise the show at all, change the airing times twice during the season, and make a 6 month mid season hitaus without almost no notice and without releasing ANY official information about when the show will be back on the air for few months. Ratings have slipped - go figure... So it makes perfect sense for me - for a chanell that made so many bad decissions past few years a stunt like this is not supprising. At least now we know where the money for season 5 of Farscape went - into the wallets of lawyers who worked out the logistics of this whole thing. And doesen't anyone see the irony in this whole thing? A network that specializes in science FICTION is trying to get NASA to release UFO information... Geee - that just screams "credibility" doesn't it? If, let's say, Discovery chanel was doing this then perhaps I would be tempted to buy into this. But SciFi?! Potentially expensive publicity stunt - that's all this is. And even if NASA releases something as an outcome of this - wouldn't you rather have Scifi spend the time and money that went into planning this on developing GOOD science fiction programming? I think I would rather have a new season of Farscape than a dry, meningless release from NASA saying something among the lines "yeah, we tested an experimental plane back then but it's none of your business anyway..." But that's just my oppinion...
I'm teminally incoherent