No, the scores are not way off. (And its the articles scores not mine...)
You can increase the FPS if you turn down options, that wasnt the point of the article, it was showing the same settings per GPU, not dumb downed settings for max FPS...
I have an ATI 9000 and 9700, the 9000 is slower, much. But in WoW I'm getting 17fps average with everything turned down. The 9700 is pumping 55+ with everything maxed out on my AMD 2600.
And the GFX lag in Origimmar is gone on the 9700, the 9000 actually pauses while gfx loads. 32megs for a gfx card doesnt cut it for that game..
So, I tend to believe more in the article and my own experience. Thanks.
Really, anything less than a older ATI 9800 is going to hurt FPS with newer games. Turn on AA/AF, and the 9800 is "Acceptable" at best with 30FPS. 60FPS is the sweet spot, which the XL800 pushs with AA/AF Turned ON.
Thats why I'm sad to see the new mini-mac's only use 9200's, and the G4's not get the new XL800's. But the price, I can see understand, the 9200 is the cheap chip, but its too slow IMHO. ATI 9600 GPU is the slowest chip they should of used.
Doom3 1024x768 AA0/AF0 ATI 9000 - 4.4 ATI 9600 - 18.2 ATI 9800XT - 60.9 ATI XL800XT - 94.4
Doom3 1024x768 AA4/AF8 ATI 9000 - 0 ATI 9600 - 9.5 ATI 9800XT - 29.8 ATI XL800XT - 65.5
BTW, the site is offline now, or I would of posted some nvidia scores.... But I switched to ATI when the 9700 came out, still using the GFX card, waiting for the 800's to drop to upgrade. Since Late 2005/early 2006 the new GPU's come out.
I know lots of people who make a living off Ebay, most own a home business and sell some of their products on Ebay. A couple at work had to quit their job to work full time on the ebay selling, so you can make money buying and reselling. A few buy wholesale from overseas
The problem I have with Ebay and Paypal, is the monopoly aspect. They start to morally judge what you can and cant sell, who you can/cant take money from with paypal. This is suppose to be a free market, but if you sell something some corporation doesnt want you to sell, they just have to write a letter to ebay to end your auction. Paypal doesnt have the same regulations as a bank, they dont want you transfering money across borders. (Try to donate money overseas with paypal, little problems, but it can be done.)
Too bad everyone is cornering themselves into 1 company for most products, your choice is disappearing. Finally you end up with a company that can do what it wants, and you have no options to go else where.
I've been using usenet since 89, seen many different usenet programs and web interfaces. Just for the heck of it, I tried to search some old amiga/commodore groups, and early fido/bbs groups, what a lack of searchs. I did some searchs back before google took over, and Deja had those posts, google seems to be missing information.
Search by reverse date is missing. Threaded and hourly view is missing, too much crap on the screen. Side bars in the way. (Again more crap)
Pretty much, I browse a few groups, but with perlmonks and other major discussion groups going to forums and leaving usenet, its more of a legacy I still enjoy than can use.
Always wished people using bbforums would have an archived usenet feed just to keep a history. Also you dont need to belong to the forum.
I feel forum's killed usenet, and forums are rather weak. How many forums are you on? Slashdot and about 6 dozen more.
While im glad Google has taken over, I wish they could at least make a forum interface that doesnt suck.
``Free software'' is a matter of liberty, not price.
Liberty a word you dont hear often enough, reminds me of a qoute.
No man's life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session. - Judge Gideon J. Tucker
Try applying those 4 rules of free software to your life, and realize how many freedoms you dont have. - You cant spank a 12 year old, but you can sentance him to death.
I've always thought that the Debian and FreeBSD installers where closer in wording and usage than Mandrake/Suse/Redhat installers.
But as installers go, I always thought OS and package installers should be 2 programs. You create your boot system, then install software. That way, its secure, boots, and you can add/remove software after a stable secure install.
The unified install system seems to complicate issues for new users. You boot, login, then type "setup". (Or at least symlink config/yast/netconf/whatever)
OpenGL makes a game release like World of Warcraft one of the most popular releases ever. Its one of the those most bought games for OSX. The thing about OSX is there are only a few gfx cards to support, and the drivers are solid. I'm just wondering why someone doesnt make the OSX to Linux migration for gfx card drivers. Does ATI re-write its entire driver for Linux? What is the difference between the 2 systems, they are both unix based systems.
Side note, WoW has some server/client code issues, and AMD+1gig ram systems have #132 errors. I had to use the Mac for WoW until the last patch came out, and then, the OSX client is more stable.
My pingtime is 600ms over GPRS and 200ms over UMTS. I've seen it bounce upto 2000ms with boats on the water in NY and not loose a ping.
Myself, I'm using my UMTS Motorola A845 phone as a usb modem, I can still take calls while I vpn and ssh out. Gives me about 3 hours combo surf/talk time before I need to charge, so I leave it plugged in at my desk while I do both.
Nice thing, no matter how much filtering IT does, I just route out over my phone connection... BTW, jerks are filtering some slashdot urls.
Also, While those GPRS phones are only Voice or Data at once, UMTS lets me do both at the same time, I dont have to quit my data session. I havnt tried the bluetooth, but been wanting to see how my pocketpc can ssh out while im on the phone.
UMTS is great, glad that its starting to go nation wide. DO and VO products just are not what you want.
Sun Microsofts confirmed they are partnering on a new game channel with Infinium. Kevin Bachus who launched the Xbox is the President of Infinium Labs. Nvidia is working with Infinium to demo the product at CES at their booth.
Vidalinux Desktop OS beta2 is now based on the 2.6.7-gentoo-r11 kernel, which includes improvements in many different areas, including scalability, device support, and performance.
Ok, so they used Gentoo's kernel for the patches, is this kernel better than Fedora's, Mandrakes, Suse or a new patched tarball?
Sounds like they are trying to take the best of everything and make a distro, but not have to compile like Gentoo.
Why would I switch distros just for a new kernel?
Re:WoW plays badly on iMac G5s, other macs
on
World of Warcraft News
·
· Score: 2, Informative
The G5's have the Nvidia 5200 base, The lapop has (guessing) ATI 9600 or 9700.
The G5's have enough power, just crippled with older video cards, G4's really have it tough. Put in an ATI 9800 or better, and the game should fly...
My G4 with ATI 9000 gets 20fps (low details), my PC with ATI 9700pro gets 60+fps with max details. But then, my gfx card cost over 300 bux when I bought it.
Pick up a high end gfx card for your mac, and enjoy. I'm rather miffed a ATI 9800 for g4 mac is so expensive.
I've been wondering this myself. I've gotten CS to work on most distro's, but after getting burnt out for years of trying to get other games working on linux, I've just used my linux boxes for either servers or desktops that needed X.
Gentoo has some nice patched kernels for gamers, and the gentoo forums are the best forums out there. And then use transgaming to complete it.
As for a desktop wm, depends on how much functionality you want. The barest wm is twm. But then whats a 150K or so, might as well run IceWM which has a nice taskbar.
The easiest out of the box setup is Mandrake for gamers, less configuration and config time.
The EULA is a contract. Contracts are binding. If you agree not to trade currency to play the game, that commitment is enforceable. Therefore, companies have the right to block trading of their currency because it violates a legally enforceable agreement.
Contracts are flexible, and can change due to current legal conditions. Saying Contracts are like cement and never change is incorrect, they can be changed due to outside factors, missing conditions, or even if the contract was forced without consent.
Also, EULA's have not been proven to be a binding contacts, since its one side saying you agree without your consent. A contract is mulitple parties agreeing, an EULA is forced consent.
And before you say "Well you can walk away", No, you bought a product, then the contract comes into existence after the sale. There are lots of ways to get out of EULA's and forced contracts using this pay first, agree later contract. Paying for the product means you already had a binding agreement.
The whole IP copyright fiasco and copyright limits is a bundle of crap that is hurting everyone.
I played AO, and didnt care for the bugs. After a few months, I just gave up.
WoW has been giving me 132 errors on my PC, so I put WoW on my mac, and have been playing there. WoW is the only game to crash on my PC, Hl2/doom3 can run benchmarks all night without any problems...
But I suspect AO is giving free gameplay away to get people hooked, but expansions still cost. And they might come up with new a new GFX engine later that costs.
I don't see any reason not to offer a free service, but you must pay to get more. Maybe a MMPOG thats free to a level, but if you want better weapons and skills, you need to pay.
Secondlife is free, but you cant buy land. Thats the general idea..
Putty is the better SSH client, but cygwin provides SSHD, so you can remotly connect to your box from elsewhere.
Also, with commandline ssh, you can run scripts to set up ssh tunnels (with ssh keys) and automate and encrypt your network connections.
I use it to tunnel a box that is networked out, I can tunnel rsync from a linux box with no network access through my windows box. SSH and the other utils with cygwin are WAY more powerful than 1 application alone.
I use cygwin in a few different places. One our file server is running NT, put cygwin on there and it like a real server;)
Also, Since I'm booted into XP most of the time, cygwin fills the nitch of having sshd to copy files back too, perl for running some reports, X for those server admin applications, even vi when I need to do some text work. (Ya, I said vi)
I was running Linux with VMware for XP, but the resources wasted, and no VPN software that worked with our nortel vpn connection, decided to just use cygwin, perfect choice.
Couple things, You can have real RXVT term's without X they run stand alone, and you can customize with normal black backgrounds, right side bars, etc. It also supports Rootless for seemless looking with windows. (Like OSX.) Comes with links, super quick to read heavy text sites, no popup banners, and color/frame support. I use it to read slashdot, and if someone looks over my shoulder, they just see text.
KDE under cygwin runs ok, few bugs, but since I just needed a manager, I went with windowmaker (Or rootless). Save the resources. (Old habits..) Konsole is nice, with tab's, I just with there was a tabbed RXVT then life would be truly sweet. (No tabbed putty yet, come on!)
Cygwin is the first software I install on a new windows system, just makes the whole thing usable. I recommend it to anyone doing work. I dont know how it compares to ActivePerl or others, since I've been using cygwin's for years, havn't had a need to switch.
BTW, a native port of nethack would be nice in the default install... And since I'm making requests, (hint to any Cygwin developers) how about real native selectable for download, icewm, screen and irssi(with ssl). Maybe VNC also. So I can remotely run X software off a Windows box over an ssh tunnel. (Production networks, security, makes an admin work harder..) - Halliburton, they get no bid contracts, they hire columbian mercs to watch the oil pipelines, and have more armored vechicals than the US Army in IRAQ. Don't join the Army, Join Halliburton!
So, tell me how the XML aspect makes this substantially different from, say, Quake scripts?
Its not XML that makes it different, its the interaction with LUA (Scripting language) and XML (Data storage format) that makes it different. This is the standard people are going to use for games to come in scripting for games.
Think of this as the first of a standard, that what you learn here, you can use on other games in years to come.
Quake, Tribes, etc, use a scripting language like thats jumble of languages, and you must learn each and its special flavors.
But some geeks like learning multiple languages and will tell you why they like ruby over perl for a job python can do quicker.;)
Slashdot Mirror
No, the scores are not way off. (And its the articles scores not mine...)
You can increase the FPS if you turn down options, that wasnt the point of the article, it was showing the same settings per GPU, not dumb downed settings for max FPS...
I have an ATI 9000 and 9700, the 9000 is slower, much. But in WoW I'm getting 17fps average with everything turned down. The 9700 is pumping 55+ with everything maxed out on my AMD 2600.
And the GFX lag in Origimmar is gone on the 9700, the 9000 actually pauses while gfx loads. 32megs for a gfx card doesnt cut it for that game..
So, I tend to believe more in the article and my own experience. Thanks.
Really, anything less than a older ATI 9800 is going to hurt FPS with newer games. Turn on AA/AF, and the 9800 is "Acceptable" at best with 30FPS. 60FPS is the sweet spot, which the XL800 pushs with AA/AF Turned ON.
Thats why I'm sad to see the new mini-mac's only use 9200's, and the G4's not get the new XL800's. But the price, I can see understand, the 9200 is the cheap chip, but its too slow IMHO. ATI 9600 GPU is the slowest chip they should of used.
Doom3 1024x768 AA0/AF0
ATI 9000 - 4.4
ATI 9600 - 18.2
ATI 9800XT - 60.9
ATI XL800XT - 94.4
Doom3 1024x768 AA4/AF8
ATI 9000 - 0
ATI 9600 - 9.5
ATI 9800XT - 29.8
ATI XL800XT - 65.5
BTW, the site is offline now, or I would of posted some nvidia scores.... But I switched to ATI when the 9700 came out, still using the GFX card, waiting for the 800's to drop to upgrade. Since Late 2005/early 2006 the new GPU's come out.
I know lots of people who make a living off Ebay, most own a home business and sell some of their products on Ebay. A couple at work had to quit their job to work full time on the ebay selling, so you can make money buying and reselling. A few buy wholesale from overseas
The problem I have with Ebay and Paypal, is the monopoly aspect. They start to morally judge what you can and cant sell, who you can/cant take money from with paypal. This is suppose to be a free market, but if you sell something some corporation doesnt want you to sell, they just have to write a letter to ebay to end your auction. Paypal doesnt have the same regulations as a bank, they dont want you transfering money across borders. (Try to donate money overseas with paypal, little problems, but it can be done.)
Too bad everyone is cornering themselves into 1 company for most products, your choice is disappearing. Finally you end up with a company that can do what it wants, and you have no options to go else where.
While the fees and prices go up...
Lots of people I know who are hard core unix junkies have OSX machines now. And warcraft3/world of warcraft is one of the most popular games on OSX.
BTW, I had to use my Mac to play WoW before the first patch. When the CPU fix in Patch 1, the mac ran without crashs.
I'm rather pissed they didnt release the ATI 800 gfx cards for the g4s, its twice as fast as a 9800.
I've been using usenet since 89, seen many different usenet programs and web interfaces. Just for the heck of it, I tried to search some old amiga/commodore groups, and early fido/bbs groups, what a lack of searchs. I did some searchs back before google took over, and Deja had those posts, google seems to be missing information.
Search by reverse date is missing.
Threaded and hourly view is missing, too much crap on the screen.
Side bars in the way. (Again more crap)
Pretty much, I browse a few groups, but with perlmonks and other major discussion groups going to forums and leaving usenet, its more of a legacy I still enjoy than can use.
Always wished people using bbforums would have an archived usenet feed just to keep a history. Also you dont need to belong to the forum.
I feel forum's killed usenet, and forums are rather weak.
How many forums are you on? Slashdot and about 6 dozen more.
While im glad Google has taken over, I wish they could at least make a forum interface that doesnt suck.
``Free software'' is a matter of liberty, not price.
Liberty a word you dont hear often enough, reminds me of a qoute.
No man's life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session. - Judge Gideon J. Tucker
Try applying those 4 rules of free software to your life, and realize how many freedoms you dont have.
-
You cant spank a 12 year old, but you can sentance him to death.
I've always thought that the Debian and FreeBSD installers where closer in wording and usage than Mandrake/Suse/Redhat installers.
But as installers go, I always thought OS and package installers should be 2 programs. You create your boot system, then install software. That way, its secure, boots, and you can add/remove software after a stable secure install.
The unified install system seems to complicate issues for new users. You boot, login, then type "setup". (Or at least symlink config/yast/netconf/whatever)
OpenGL makes a game release like World of Warcraft one of the most popular releases ever. Its one of the those most bought games for OSX. The thing about OSX is there are only a few gfx cards to support, and the drivers are solid. I'm just wondering why someone doesnt make the OSX to Linux migration for gfx card drivers. Does ATI re-write its entire driver for Linux? What is the difference between the 2 systems, they are both unix based systems.
Side note, WoW has some server/client code issues, and AMD+1gig ram systems have #132 errors. I had to use the Mac for WoW until the last patch came out, and then, the OSX client is more stable.
My pingtime is 600ms over GPRS and 200ms over UMTS. I've seen it bounce upto 2000ms with boats on the water in NY and not loose a ping.
Myself, I'm using my UMTS Motorola A845 phone as a usb modem, I can still take calls while I vpn and ssh out. Gives me about 3 hours combo surf/talk time before I need to charge, so I leave it plugged in at my desk while I do both.
Nice thing, no matter how much filtering IT does, I just route out over my phone connection... BTW, jerks are filtering some slashdot urls.
Also, While those GPRS phones are only Voice or Data at once, UMTS lets me do both at the same time, I dont have to quit my data session. I havnt tried the bluetooth, but been wanting to see how my pocketpc can ssh out while im on the phone.
UMTS is great, glad that its starting to go nation wide. DO and VO products just are not what you want.
That was suppose to be Sun Microsystems, Sun Microsofts, thats a nightmare I don't want to even think about.
Sun Microsofts confirmed they are partnering on a new game channel with Infinium. Kevin Bachus who launched the Xbox is the President of Infinium Labs. Nvidia is working with Infinium to demo the product at CES at their booth.
Doesn't sound or act like vaporware.
Vidalinux Desktop OS beta2 is now based on the 2.6.7-gentoo-r11 kernel, which includes improvements in many different areas, including scalability, device support, and performance.
Ok, so they used Gentoo's kernel for the patches, is this kernel better than Fedora's, Mandrakes, Suse or a new patched tarball?
Sounds like they are trying to take the best of everything and make a distro, but not have to compile like Gentoo.
Why would I switch distros just for a new kernel?
The G5's have the Nvidia 5200 base, The lapop has (guessing) ATI 9600 or 9700.
The G5's have enough power, just crippled with older video cards, G4's really have it tough. Put in an ATI 9800 or better, and the game should fly...
My G4 with ATI 9000 gets 20fps (low details), my PC with ATI 9700pro gets 60+fps with max details. But then, my gfx card cost over 300 bux when I bought it.
Pick up a high end gfx card for your mac, and enjoy. I'm rather miffed a ATI 9800 for g4 mac is so expensive.
And you dont have to worry about no-cd patches, as its already a cd'less game.
;) GJ Valve.
Now if they banned people for using a no-cd, or virtual cd image with a legit key, that would be news.
I'm gonna have to play CS tonight to see what a hackerless game is like.
I've been wondering this myself. I've gotten CS to work on most distro's, but after getting burnt out for years of trying to get other games working on linux, I've just used my linux boxes for either servers or desktops that needed X.
Gentoo has some nice patched kernels for gamers, and the gentoo forums are the best forums out there. And then use transgaming to complete it.
As for a desktop wm, depends on how much functionality you want. The barest wm is twm. But then whats a 150K or so, might as well run IceWM which has a nice taskbar.
The easiest out of the box setup is Mandrake for gamers, less configuration and config time.
Just my 2 cents.
I am an attorney.
The EULA is a contract. Contracts are binding. If you agree not to trade currency to play the game, that commitment is enforceable. Therefore, companies have the right to block trading of their currency because it violates a legally enforceable agreement.
Contracts are flexible, and can change due to current legal conditions. Saying Contracts are like cement and never change is incorrect, they can be changed due to outside factors, missing conditions, or even if the contract was forced without consent.
Also, EULA's have not been proven to be a binding contacts, since its one side saying you agree without your consent. A contract is mulitple parties agreeing, an EULA is forced consent.
And before you say "Well you can walk away", No, you bought a product, then the contract comes into existence after the sale. There are lots of ways to get out of EULA's and forced contracts using this pay first, agree later contract. Paying for the product means you already had a binding agreement.
The whole IP copyright fiasco and copyright limits is a bundle of crap that is hurting everyone.
I wasn't able to download the music it was slashdotted to quickly, even the mirror couldnt snag it quick enough...
http://www.mirrordot.org/
I tried to launch nethack on my gentoo box and it required a X server, what happened to the command line ascii version?
Back in my day we ran dual P160's with Voodoo2 SLI!
I'm getting 20FPS on an ATI9000+G4, I'd like to see benchmarks on the Nvidia 6800 ULtra DDL G5's.
:)
My PC with ATI 9700 runs 50FPS with everything maxed and anti-aliasing on full.
In fact, the driver updates mention WoW.
I played AO, and didnt care for the bugs. After a few months, I just gave up.
WoW has been giving me 132 errors on my PC, so I put WoW on my mac, and have been playing there. WoW is the only game to crash on my PC, Hl2/doom3 can run benchmarks all night without any problems...
But I suspect AO is giving free gameplay away to get people hooked, but expansions still cost. And they might come up with new a new GFX engine later that costs.
I don't see any reason not to offer a free service, but you must pay to get more. Maybe a MMPOG thats free to a level, but if you want better weapons and skills, you need to pay.
Secondlife is free, but you cant buy land. Thats the general idea..
Tabbed A-term.
Putty is the better SSH client, but cygwin provides SSHD, so you can remotly connect to your box from elsewhere.
Also, with commandline ssh, you can run scripts to set up ssh tunnels (with ssh keys) and automate and encrypt your network connections.
I use it to tunnel a box that is networked out, I can tunnel rsync from a linux box with no network access through my windows box. SSH and the other utils with cygwin are WAY more powerful than 1 application alone.
I use cygwin in a few different places. One our file server is running NT, put cygwin on there and it like a real server ;)
Also, Since I'm booted into XP most of the time, cygwin fills the nitch of having sshd to copy files back too, perl for running some reports, X for those server admin applications, even vi when I need to do some text work. (Ya, I said vi)
I was running Linux with VMware for XP, but the resources wasted, and no VPN software that worked with our nortel vpn connection, decided to just use cygwin, perfect choice.
Couple things, You can have real RXVT term's without X they run stand alone, and you can customize with normal black backgrounds, right side bars, etc. It also supports Rootless for seemless looking with windows. (Like OSX.) Comes with links, super quick to read heavy text sites, no popup banners, and color/frame support. I use it to read slashdot, and if someone looks over my shoulder, they just see text.
KDE under cygwin runs ok, few bugs, but since I just needed a manager, I went with windowmaker (Or rootless). Save the resources. (Old habits..) Konsole is nice, with tab's, I just with there was a tabbed RXVT then life would be truly sweet. (No tabbed putty yet, come on!)
Cygwin is the first software I install on a new windows system, just makes the whole thing usable. I recommend it to anyone doing work. I dont know how it compares to ActivePerl or others, since I've been using cygwin's for years, havn't had a need to switch.
BTW, a native port of nethack would be nice in the default install... And since I'm making requests, (hint to any Cygwin developers) how about real native selectable for download, icewm, screen and irssi(with ssl). Maybe VNC also. So I can remotely run X software off a Windows box over an ssh tunnel. (Production networks, security, makes an admin work harder..)
-
Halliburton, they get no bid contracts, they hire columbian mercs to watch the oil pipelines, and have more armored vechicals than the US Army in IRAQ. Don't join the Army, Join Halliburton!
So, tell me how the XML aspect makes this substantially different from, say, Quake scripts?
;)
Its not XML that makes it different, its the interaction with LUA (Scripting language) and XML (Data storage format) that makes it different. This is the standard people are going to use for games to come in scripting for games.
Think of this as the first of a standard, that what you learn here, you can use on other games in years to come.
Quake, Tribes, etc, use a scripting language like thats jumble of languages, and you must learn each and its special flavors.
But some geeks like learning multiple languages and will tell you why they like ruby over perl for a job python can do quicker.