Altough I use GNOME I think Gnome is more "bizarre" nowadays than KDE since they departed from the traditional desktop metaphore, but most new users I've showed the interface somehow get things done on Gnome.
I don't know however if it's packager fault but I always found KDE software less reliable than Gnome's (tried it on Debian, Slackware, and Fedora), specially after KDE4. Even with the controversy, most of what Gnome software offers to users work, for example Evolution. Last time I tried KDE (I think it was KDE 4 something, one of the latests) it's PIM suite would be awkward and never actually got it to run for some reason it also depended on MySQL, which I find quite bizarre. Outside of PIM many of KDE options would malfunction (sometimes bringing the whole application down) or not work at all. What's the point of promising the world to the user if all it's going to fall apart after a couple of clicks? I'd rather pop up a terminal and do stuff from there than having to figure out why the GUI of something doesn't work as expected.
As for the bloat, coming from a Gnome user seems hypocritical. Gnome sits idle on fedora at 1Gb of memory, so if KDE is bloated, Gnome it's also a pig. If you compare both with MATE or XFCE, they are both bloated.
yet there's what, 3? 4? GNOME forks going, most of which were sparked by GNOME being such a clusterf*** to build.
This is innacurate, most Gnome forks were born from disagreements with the overall divergence with the traditional desktop paradigm.
When you have to market your greatest release with updated emoji you know you got nothing.
No, I just answered your questions. That's why questions are made for, for answers. I found it funny how someone can be so angry at other people working on something.
, and they don't seem interested in fixing the horrible mess they have created. In fact their current goal seems to be to remove as many options and alternative settings as possible.
Or perhaps they don't see it as an horrible mess and just disregard disrespectful people who come trying to impose their vision on them.
Contributing is just that, just contributing, not pretending becoming the boss of a project at day one because you know better than everybody involved in it.
You've dropped a Linux distribution that lets you choose the desktop at installation because you didn't like the desktop they ticked by default? You're clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed.
I mean, for people that want to code, or browse or watch a film, maybe do some multitasking why choose GNOME over anything else?
Because it's easier to set up, doesn't get in the way, can be used easily with a keyboard.
Is it easy to use and customise? Is it fast? Is it stable? Does it need a fuckton of dependencies and forces unnecessary shit on users?
- Yes is easy to use, my in-law uses it when she uses my brother's computer and finds it really intuitive.
- If you have good hardware is fast, otherwise you have a plethora of other DEs to use, including the previous version of GNOME now known as Mate.
- Pretty stable on both my desktop and laptop. In fact it has the best support for multiple monitors that I've seen on Linux so far.
- Well define unnecessary, if it's needed by the desktop to run, then it's not unnecessary. Yes you can go minimal with other WM, but you also lose quite a lot of features that Gnome brings: easy software installation, power management, fast file/program/document search, calendar integration and more. If you don't feel like you need any of that, well use another thing, or use Gnome and disable those features, it's easily doable from their control panel.
System search?! Emoji?? - what the fuck are these people doing?
- The whole desktop focus around searching and it does a pretty good job at it, you basically press the super key, type something and open up the program/file you want, or write the mail for any contact you have. If you don't like that, well, don't use it, nobody is forcing you.
- Emoji is quite frivolous but very popular nowadays, not everything has to be "super serious" and if someone contributed that to the project, who am I to criticize.
- Well they are developing a popular Linux DE, they could also be ranting about other people's work on the internet.
Once upon a time GNOME was clean, fast and simply didnt get in the way of doing shit. KDE was a slower but was very shiny. These days they both suck.
Then use Mate which is literally the GNOME2 desktop you miss or KDE, or install a shiny theme, at this point I don't even know what you want.
If I wanted a horrifically bloated "flat" interface with seven layers of buried shit menus I'd just use Windows 10.
- Gnome interface is hardly flat, there are flat themes, the default one is not. I'm suspecting you're just full of shit and never even used the damn thing.
- It seems you're looking for an excuse, just go and use Windows 10, nobody cares.
my mind isn't cooperating today, pretty much any semantically secure algorithm with a key space of 256 bits or more should be safe https://www.schneier.com/blog/...
How is that so? on gnome 2 you had alt+f2 if you weren't using an application launcher (launchy/gnome-do/synapse). You could run without compositing (better performance on some games), you didn't have animations unless you wanted to.
Also it's not the only reason, some of the things that drove me away was the simplification of the individual apps (specially nautilus), the mania with integrating everything with online accounts, and bugs, many bugs sometimes critical (killing the entire session ).
Many things that gnome 3 did well (I documented some of them back then on my blog http://juanfgs.eosweb.info/pos...). After all my eventual shift to i3 wouldn't have happened if I didn't went through gnome 3.
i3 is for me Gnome minus the resource load, load of bugs with my current hardware and many things that I frankly didn't use. As I said I don't bash gnome now that the initial "anger" is gone, but it's just not for me anymore. I run i3 with caja (old nautilus), moc for music, emacs.
I know I have used it, but I had to do some massive tweaking to get it to a working state. Getting rid of desktop switcher and some other annoying bling. i3 does all this for me and is way more lightweight.
I was a former Gnome user and I ditched it, but to be honest, new users seem to like Gnome 3, for the obvious reason that touch interfaces are more familiar to them. They are more used to "slide to unlock" behaviours and such, big icons for rapid identification.
Sometimes it's worthy to make a little of self-criticism and realize that many of us aren't from this era of interfaces. I recognize that I hardly use a computer in the same way the average person uses it, I often rely on the terminal, I tend to remember programs by name rather than icon, and my workflow is probably way different than those born in the "apps" era.
It's Gnome for me? not anymore. Should it be? no, why should I force developers to do things as I like.
Gnome 3 is a good thing to have, because it enables free software to reach people that otherwise wouldn't be interested. Luckily for us, there are a plethora of options if you are fond of the old interface, and they seem to keep getting better and better (MATE, Xfce , KDE).
I like how people are outraged by this idea, but somehow it's perfectly okay for cheerleaders on other places like football teams. When put into the "nerdy guys place" suddenly there is a whole sexual air to it, I see comments like: "they are like hookers", "poor girls how they suffer surrounded by nerds", "this is sexual abuse".
I think is valid to question western society (specially in the US) why it's acceptable to have "cheerleaders" showing their asses on public television before a football/basketball match but it's so outrageous have girls are hired motivate workers on one of the most profitable and stressful industries in the world.
To be honest programming is a stressful environment, and it's way better if you have motivation, somebody telling you you rock, you can do it, makes you work happier and better, doesn't even have to be a woman. I don't see it more outrageous than a cheerleader show before an NBA game in my opinion, which is in fact directed more at the public than the actual players so it's even more questionable in is necessity or usefullness.
Also, these nitty languages aren't universalized and the GUI you can produce with them often cannot hold a candle to simple CSS done well which can flex across multi-dimensional displays easily.
Yours has to be the most clueless comment I've ever seen. Are you aware that there is more to software than the webpage of California based start up? Do you know that there are many mission-critical systems with specific needs that actually sparked interest in creating new languages? Erlang was born out of the need to handle several telecommunication systems by Ericsson and it's still rocking in that field.
I can't help but picture you as the typical Javascript hipster pushing to use NodeJS since he doesn't want to learn anything new.
I really hope I won't be around when you guys rebuild all the software that controls atomic ICBMs in Javascript + Reactjs because we will be fucked.
Totally contrary to my experience (but I fall in the qualification of thirld-worder ). I started the course not for the credentials but for the skills to learn. I didn't frequent the forums since I find the social aspect of education way distracting, but the times I entered I found:
- tools to help doing the exercise (without cheating/giving away the answers) - good explanations for some excercises and the problems arising - further research of a specific topic
There was also some people asking for certification, but they might have been so insignificant that I can't even remember one in particular. Perhaps some courses are more prone to this, but not the one I entered ( Cryptography I by Dan Boneh BTW, amazing content).
The good thing is that I noticed I was lacking in some aspects ( mainly calculus) so that motivated me to study it on my own, to improve my understanding on the matter, next time I'll probably jump on module 2 of the course or a machine learning course that's really interesting.
I think that online courses are great, specially for guys who don't feel comfortable anymore hanging out with freshmen students, but if you go there for the certification then it's obvious they never will be as acceptable as formal in-campus education, so you're wasting your time.
I've been always a Gnome user until the 3.x fiasco. I must say KDE now looks extremely nice. It seems that they finally managed to streamline the user experience while retaining all that configurability.
I'll stick to i3 however, but it's nice to see that there is still a sane desktop experience out there.
The video says that automation is good because it produces abundance if there is abundance what is the point on needing to work? Why we don't just organize the production so every human person can benefit from the work of the machines, and pursue their own interests. Most of our governments and corporations say they just want the best for the people, why they don't start using automation to improve the life of millions of people for free?
Slashdot Mirror
Altough I use GNOME I think Gnome is more "bizarre" nowadays than KDE since they departed from the traditional desktop metaphore, but most new users I've showed the interface somehow get things done on Gnome.
I don't know however if it's packager fault but I always found KDE software less reliable than Gnome's (tried it on Debian, Slackware, and Fedora), specially after KDE4. Even with the controversy, most of what Gnome software offers to users work, for example Evolution. Last time I tried KDE (I think it was KDE 4 something, one of the latests) it's PIM suite would be awkward and never actually got it to run for some reason it also depended on MySQL, which I find quite bizarre. Outside of PIM many of KDE options would malfunction (sometimes bringing the whole application down) or not work at all. What's the point of promising the world to the user if all it's going to fall apart after a couple of clicks? I'd rather pop up a terminal and do stuff from there than having to figure out why the GUI of something doesn't work as expected.
As for the bloat, coming from a Gnome user seems hypocritical. Gnome sits idle on fedora at 1Gb of memory, so if KDE is bloated, Gnome it's also a pig. If you compare both with MATE or XFCE, they are both bloated.
yet there's what, 3? 4? GNOME forks going, most of which were sparked by GNOME being such a clusterf*** to build.
This is innacurate, most Gnome forks were born from disagreements with the overall divergence with the traditional desktop paradigm.
When you have to market your greatest release with updated emoji you know you got nothing.
No, I just answered your questions. That's why questions are made for, for answers. I found it funny how someone can be so angry at other people working on something.
, and they don't seem interested in fixing the horrible mess they have created. In fact their current goal seems to be to remove as many options and alternative settings as possible.
Or perhaps they don't see it as an horrible mess and just disregard disrespectful people who come trying to impose their vision on them.
Contributing is just that, just contributing, not pretending becoming the boss of a project at day one because you know better than everybody involved in it.
I've dropped Debian because of Gnome 3
You've dropped a Linux distribution that lets you choose the desktop at installation because you didn't like the desktop they ticked by default? You're clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed.
I mean, for people that want to code, or browse or watch a film, maybe do some multitasking why choose GNOME over anything else?
Because it's easier to set up, doesn't get in the way, can be used easily with a keyboard.
Is it easy to use and customise? Is it fast? Is it stable? Does it need a fuckton of dependencies and forces unnecessary shit on users?
- Yes is easy to use, my in-law uses it when she uses my brother's computer and finds it really intuitive.
- If you have good hardware is fast, otherwise you have a plethora of other DEs to use, including the previous version of GNOME now known as Mate.
- Pretty stable on both my desktop and laptop. In fact it has the best support for multiple monitors that I've seen on Linux so far.
- Well define unnecessary, if it's needed by the desktop to run, then it's not unnecessary. Yes you can go minimal with other WM, but you also lose quite a lot of features that Gnome brings: easy software installation, power management, fast file/program/document search, calendar integration and more. If you don't feel like you need any of that, well use another thing, or use Gnome and disable those features, it's easily doable from their control panel.
System search?! Emoji?? - what the fuck are these people doing?
- The whole desktop focus around searching and it does a pretty good job at it, you basically press the super key, type something and open up the program/file you want, or write the mail for any contact you have. If you don't like that, well, don't use it, nobody is forcing you.
- Emoji is quite frivolous but very popular nowadays, not everything has to be "super serious" and if someone contributed that to the project, who am I to criticize.
- Well they are developing a popular Linux DE, they could also be ranting about other people's work on the internet.
Once upon a time GNOME was clean, fast and simply didnt get in the way of doing shit. KDE was a slower but was very shiny. These days they both suck.
Then use Mate which is literally the GNOME2 desktop you miss or KDE, or install a shiny theme, at this point I don't even know what you want.
If I wanted a horrifically bloated "flat" interface with seven layers of buried shit menus I'd just use Windows 10.
- Gnome interface is hardly flat, there are flat themes, the default one is not. I'm suspecting you're just full of shit and never even used the damn thing.
- It seems you're looking for an excuse, just go and use Windows 10, nobody cares.
You forgot the "X is for Cows" part
I thought the same but good luck trying to explain that to a crowd.
RIP Ian
To those not in the know, Krita is officially a digital painting and illustration app
And for all the people sad because of the apple shortage, don't worry! we have a lot of oranges for you!
> Given all we've done in just the last 200 years, almost anything is possible given another 2000 years.
Including self-destruction
but Red Hat seems to have a disproportionate level of control over the direction of Linux, kernel itself aside.
It's like they have dumped a lot of resources and money on Linux development and now they seek to make a profit of it HOW THEY DARE!
and I meant AES 256, yadda yadda
my mind isn't cooperating today, pretty much any semantically secure algorithm with a key space of 256 bits or more should be safe https://www.schneier.com/blog/...
DSA 256
They are what plants crave obviously.
Do you know if they're hiring?
I don't hate systemd
bring it on :)
How is that so? on gnome 2 you had alt+f2 if you weren't using an application launcher (launchy/gnome-do/synapse). You could run without compositing (better performance on some games), you didn't have animations unless you wanted to.
Also it's not the only reason, some of the things that drove me away was the simplification of the individual apps (specially nautilus), the mania with integrating everything with online accounts, and bugs, many bugs sometimes critical (killing the entire session ).
Many things that gnome 3 did well (I documented some of them back then on my blog http://juanfgs.eosweb.info/pos...). After all my eventual shift to i3 wouldn't have happened if I didn't went through gnome 3.
i3 is for me Gnome minus the resource load, load of bugs with my current hardware and many things that I frankly didn't use. As I said I don't bash gnome now that the initial "anger" is gone, but it's just not for me anymore. I run i3 with caja (old nautilus), moc for music, emacs.
I know I have used it, but I had to do some massive tweaking to get it to a working state. Getting rid of desktop switcher and some other annoying bling. i3 does all this for me and is way more lightweight.
I was a former Gnome user and I ditched it, but to be honest, new users seem to like Gnome 3, for the obvious reason that touch interfaces are more familiar to them. They are more used to "slide to unlock" behaviours and such, big icons for rapid identification.
Sometimes it's worthy to make a little of self-criticism and realize that many of us aren't from this era of interfaces. I recognize that I hardly use a computer in the same way the average person uses it, I often rely on the terminal, I tend to remember programs by name rather than icon, and my workflow is probably way different than those born in the "apps" era.
It's Gnome for me? not anymore. Should it be? no, why should I force developers to do things as I like.
Gnome 3 is a good thing to have, because it enables free software to reach people that otherwise wouldn't be interested. Luckily for us, there are a plethora of options if you are fond of the old interface, and they seem to keep getting better and better (MATE, Xfce , KDE).
I like how people are outraged by this idea, but somehow it's perfectly okay for cheerleaders on other places like football teams. When put into the "nerdy guys place" suddenly there is a whole sexual air to it, I see comments like: "they are like hookers", "poor girls how they suffer surrounded by nerds", "this is sexual abuse".
I think is valid to question western society (specially in the US) why it's acceptable to have "cheerleaders" showing their asses on public television before a football/basketball match but it's so outrageous have girls are hired motivate workers on one of the most profitable and stressful industries in the world.
To be honest programming is a stressful environment, and it's way better if you have motivation, somebody telling you you rock, you can do it, makes you work happier and better, doesn't even have to be a woman. I don't see it more outrageous than a cheerleader show before an NBA game in my opinion, which is in fact directed more at the public than the actual players so it's even more questionable in is necessity or usefullness.
Sorry for my crappy english.
Also, these nitty languages aren't universalized and the GUI you can produce with them often cannot hold a candle to simple CSS done well which can flex across multi-dimensional displays easily.
Yours has to be the most clueless comment I've ever seen. Are you aware that there is more to software than the webpage of California based start up? Do you know that there are many mission-critical systems with specific needs that actually sparked interest in creating new languages? Erlang was born out of the need to handle several telecommunication systems by Ericsson and it's still rocking in that field.
I can't help but picture you as the typical Javascript hipster pushing to use NodeJS since he doesn't want to learn anything new.
I really hope I won't be around when you guys rebuild all the software that controls atomic ICBMs in Javascript + Reactjs because we will be fucked.
yadda yadda https://xkcd.com/1217/
Totally contrary to my experience (but I fall in the qualification of thirld-worder ). I started the course not for the credentials but for the skills to learn. I didn't frequent the forums since I find the social aspect of education way distracting, but the times I entered I found:
- tools to help doing the exercise (without cheating/giving away the answers)
- good explanations for some excercises and the problems arising
- further research of a specific topic
There was also some people asking for certification, but they might have been so insignificant that I can't even remember one in particular. Perhaps some courses are more prone to this, but not the one I entered ( Cryptography I by Dan Boneh BTW, amazing content).
The good thing is that I noticed I was lacking in some aspects ( mainly calculus) so that motivated me to study it on my own, to improve my understanding on the matter, next time I'll probably jump on module 2 of the course or a machine learning course that's really interesting.
I think that online courses are great, specially for guys who don't feel comfortable anymore hanging out with freshmen students, but if you go there for the certification then it's obvious they never will be as acceptable as formal in-campus education, so you're wasting your time.
I've been always a Gnome user until the 3.x fiasco. I must say KDE now looks extremely nice. It seems that they finally managed to streamline the user experience while retaining all that configurability.
I'll stick to i3 however, but it's nice to see that there is still a sane desktop experience out there.
Kudos to the KDE team.
The video says that automation is good because it produces abundance if there is abundance what is the point on needing to work? Why we don't just organize the production so every human person can benefit from the work of the machines, and pursue their own interests. Most of our governments and corporations say they just want the best for the people, why they don't start using automation to improve the life of millions of people for free?