Of the big 3, generally only Nintendo actually makes a profit off their gaming systems in the first year of release.
"Generally"? So this is a historical trend, and you can produce hard evidence that this is the case? By the way, bullshit figures from "financial" "analysts" don't count.
By some estimates Sony is subsidizing the PS3 to the tune of $300/unit while Microsoft is probably just about breaking even on systems.
Once again, where are your sources? Nobody knows how much the PS3 really costs because Sony does most of the manufacturing themselves. Good luck getting accurate numbers there. And good luck explaining how MS is "probably" breaking even right now.
The big money for Microsoft and Sony comes from game sales
So this is why the Xbox division lost billions over the life of the original Xbox? Check your math, bud.
I agree. It's totally a reasonable assesment that the entire video game industry will change its entrenched development process from static, pre-made content to stuff that will make Spore look like Pong. And they'll even somehow do this for all the games coming out in 2007 that use static content and are 75% done already. Yep, you totally have the pulse of the game dev community, bud.
I'm not sure what you mean by "staying relevant". For me, they are becoming more and more irrelevant all the time. I've never been a big PC gamer, and Wine is getting pretty close to running all the games I do play. Plus there's all the wonderful DRM, overtures toward "trusted" computing, and Vista requiring signed drivers, which are all slaps in the face to anyone who actually wants to control the machines they own.
And for other people I know, the same is happening, but can be summarized as "Mac Mini/Macbook". They use their computers for e-mail and the web, and Apple makes a damn good computing appliance for this purpose.
Of course, businesses are a whole different story.
There is real competition in the graphics card market, more so then the processor market and definately more then say...the operating system market.
ATI & Nvidia having similar marketshare does not equal "real competition". The fact that it's not one company with 99% of the market does not mean that it's some kind of utopia.
The only console that I know that does improve it's last generation games is the Wii.
Well, the PS2 has texture smoothing and disc speedup for PS titles. Of course, not all games work well with these tweaks, and at least on my PS2 you have to manually turn them on each time you boot.
Another option is emulation, as some emulators can do AA and other fun stuff. One could "upgrade" their gaming setup with a living-room PC and emulators for whatever games you own. This way, you save space and cord tangles (and can dump games to a hard drive), get nicer looking games, and have better, configurable support for whatever display you're using.
Of course, this would be pretty time-consuming. I'm pretty sure some of those drop-in Xbox dashboards are not 100% legal, so it might be a headache to find something that's free and clear. And if you have cartridge games, you'd have to find some way to dump the ROMs. But the end result would be really slick.
I feel that in the US, we are becoming more materialistic/consumeristic rather than less. People will argue passionately about brand names, instead of the ethical character of the company behind it. People shop at $BIGBOX without thinking about the local economic consequences (which is a whole 'nother story). And of course fancy electronic entertainment is one of the shiny things everybody has to have.
As for economics, it kind of breaks down into "the economy" and "product price". I don't follow economics news much, but this year may be one in which people have more spending money. I seem to remember the past few years having some dire predictions about "low holiday revenue", but this year I've not heard any (also I've ignored the news more, so take this with a grain of salt).
As for the product prices (note: US dollars), in April '06 the PS2 was cut from $150 to $130. To me that doesn't sound like a lot, however the previous cut was in May of '04[1]. The PSP was cut from $250 to $199 in March of this year. And some other reply to you said there were some pretty decent Thanksgiving sales on PSPs, which also helps a bit. Also, the PSP's library is better now (hopefully; I don't actually follow it).
And then you have the massive number existing PS2 titles - the single greatest game library for a console everIf by "greatest" you mean "largest", then yes. If you're referring to some measure of "quality", good luck quantifying that in a way everyone will agree with.
Apparently Zonk doesn't even read the links that he inserts into other articles for no apparent reason...
The best part is that the (actual) article argues that profitability is not based being Number One, yet (Zonk fails to realize) Microsoft's entire business strategy is to gain marketshare and ward off competition.
My opinion is that the PS3 has this feature (at least in part) to give Sony some legal leverage, and a likely instance for such leverage to be used would be if a similar "import tax" situation happened. This is why I mentioned it.
The jurisdiction is completely irrelevant, which is why I did not name one.
Until NPD releases its November numbers or Sony makes an announcement I think those are about as accurate as we're going to get.
Unfortunately, neither of these are very accurate. NPD does not get any data from Wal-Mart, which probably skews that data just a smidge. And Sony has recently become fond of quoting how many machines they've shipped, not sold. Of course, PS3s aren't piling up on store shelves, so for the time being Sony's announcements will likely be accurate.
experimental games that I see coming out of major game studios still hold tight to their expensive high-detail graphics and whatnot.
Case in point: Shenmue. Moving on:
a key lesson that the game industry could stand to learn is they don't have to have incredibly complex graphics and endless content in order to make a game look good and get played a lot
Define "game industry". I assume you mean the "big" companies here, and for them this is probably true. But there are other game makers who have discovered this fact, and they call it "shareware", or are named PopCap.
I don't think you understand my argument. Here's your original claim:
... the PS3 is not considered a computer just as the PS2 wasn't.
To begin, we must define the manner in which the PS2 was "not considered a computer". My definition of this is:
The PS2 was classified as a "game console" in the UK. Sony appealed, in court, to reclassify it as a "computer". A UK Court of Appeal denied this reclassification.
If you base your claim off of this definition, you must show that the same chain of events took place regarding the PS3. Namely:
the PS3 was classified a "game console", by the same people and for the same reason(s), as was the PS2
Sony appealed this in court
Sony used the same argument(s)
a judge issued the same ruling, using the same reasoning
Now if you look at my (first) reply to you, I was saying that you have not shown the above events to have happened. QED. In fact...
That's because Sony has yet to make the claim to get a tax rebate on the PS3.
Hmm.
As for my original post:
The real reason that Sony built this into the PS3 was to avoid import tariffs.
You claim this statement is false because there was some court ruling in some jurisdiction regarding a similar issue with the PS2, and obviously I'm thinking of that. This is not the case. Once again, I failed to spell out every minute detail of my argument, and you fill in the blanks like a toddler doing the NYT crossword. I guess the speculative nature and lack of sources in my original post didn't tip you off that this is my opinion.
***ASIDE: THE PRECEDING SENTENCE IMPLIES THAT MY ORIGINAL POST WAS MY OPINION. PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THIS***
And yet, instead of, like, asking me if I maybe confused things, you claim I'm an idiot. This may be a fair assessment, as my reply assumed you actually understood my argument, which is clearly not the case.
Yes, Peter Pan gets special treatment, but that's not the only exception in the UK. The King James Bible and the Book of Common Prayer (and some other stuff) are under perpetual copyright.
So the writers for all financial rags are really techies in disguise? Sorry, but most of the stuff I read from "financial" "analysts" takes a pretty similar tone, where any company that's not raking in quarterly profits and also cutting costs is marked as a failure.
I have to say I agree. While I really think it's cool that Ubuntu is basically Shuttleworth paying people to hack together a good distro, the binary drivers issue is a real sticking point for me.
As with most any problem, there are multiple solutions. For this particular problem, one solution would be to support or fund development of reverse-engineered drivers for 3D cards that are currently unsupported in x.org, DRI, etc. Of course, this solution would take time and money, and has elements of uncertainty. I guess Mr. Shuttleworth decided that instead of doing things the hard (read: right) way, it's more important to get uber-leet 3D desktops, while at the same time selling out the community that has insisted on Free drivers.
one thing that I did not notice was region-specific documentation for water cleanliness training, etc. I thought that these would be customized for each country/region.
Slashdot Mirror
Of the big 3, generally only Nintendo actually makes a profit off their gaming systems in the first year of release.
"Generally"? So this is a historical trend, and you can produce hard evidence that this is the case? By the way, bullshit figures from "financial" "analysts" don't count.
By some estimates Sony is subsidizing the PS3 to the tune of $300/unit while Microsoft is probably just about breaking even on systems.
Once again, where are your sources? Nobody knows how much the PS3 really costs because Sony does most of the manufacturing themselves. Good luck getting accurate numbers there. And good luck explaining how MS is "probably" breaking even right now.
The big money for Microsoft and Sony comes from game sales
So this is why the Xbox division lost billions over the life of the original Xbox? Check your math, bud.
There would be more happy penises than if Natalie Portman appeared (naked and petrified) at a Star Wars convention.
I agree. It's totally a reasonable assesment that the entire video game industry will change its entrenched development process from static, pre-made content to stuff that will make Spore look like Pong. And they'll even somehow do this for all the games coming out in 2007 that use static content and are 75% done already. Yep, you totally have the pulse of the game dev community, bud.
I'm not sure what you mean by "staying relevant". For me, they are becoming more and more irrelevant all the time. I've never been a big PC gamer, and Wine is getting pretty close to running all the games I do play. Plus there's all the wonderful DRM, overtures toward "trusted" computing, and Vista requiring signed drivers, which are all slaps in the face to anyone who actually wants to control the machines they own.
And for other people I know, the same is happening, but can be summarized as "Mac Mini/Macbook". They use their computers for e-mail and the web, and Apple makes a damn good computing appliance for this purpose.
Of course, businesses are a whole different story.
There is real competition in the graphics card market, more so then the processor market and definately more then say...the operating system market.
ATI & Nvidia having similar marketshare does not equal "real competition". The fact that it's not one company with 99% of the market does not mean that it's some kind of utopia.
Terrorists looooove chicken with a side of fresh veggies. Good work, TSA.
The only console that I know that does improve it's last generation games is the Wii.
Well, the PS2 has texture smoothing and disc speedup for PS titles. Of course, not all games work well with these tweaks, and at least on my PS2 you have to manually turn them on each time you boot.
Another option is emulation, as some emulators can do AA and other fun stuff. One could "upgrade" their gaming setup with a living-room PC and emulators for whatever games you own. This way, you save space and cord tangles (and can dump games to a hard drive), get nicer looking games, and have better, configurable support for whatever display you're using.
Of course, this would be pretty time-consuming. I'm pretty sure some of those drop-in Xbox dashboards are not 100% legal, so it might be a headache to find something that's free and clear. And if you have cartridge games, you'd have to find some way to dump the ROMs. But the end result would be really slick.
any one got some better ideas?
Consumerism and economics, perhaps?
I feel that in the US, we are becoming more materialistic/consumeristic rather than less. People will argue passionately about brand names, instead of the ethical character of the company behind it. People shop at $BIGBOX without thinking about the local economic consequences (which is a whole 'nother story). And of course fancy electronic entertainment is one of the shiny things everybody has to have.
As for economics, it kind of breaks down into "the economy" and "product price". I don't follow economics news much, but this year may be one in which people have more spending money. I seem to remember the past few years having some dire predictions about "low holiday revenue", but this year I've not heard any (also I've ignored the news more, so take this with a grain of salt).
As for the product prices (note: US dollars), in April '06 the PS2 was cut from $150 to $130. To me that doesn't sound like a lot, however the previous cut was in May of '04[1]. The PSP was cut from $250 to $199 in March of this year. And some other reply to you said there were some pretty decent Thanksgiving sales on PSPs, which also helps a bit. Also, the PSP's library is better now (hopefully; I don't actually follow it).
[1] According to Wikipedia
No dude, he was totally comparing the PS2's performance to all other consoles ever.
:D
Can you shoot high-polygon, bump-mapped hookers on your Colecovision? I didn't think so
And then you have the massive number existing PS2 titles - the single greatest game library for a console everIf by "greatest" you mean "largest", then yes. If you're referring to some measure of "quality", good luck quantifying that in a way everyone will agree with.
Apparently Zonk doesn't even read the links that he inserts into other articles for no apparent reason...
The best part is that the (actual) article argues that profitability is not based being Number One, yet (Zonk fails to realize) Microsoft's entire business strategy is to gain marketshare and ward off competition.
Actually it's more like
1) Design the most expensive machine you can.
2) ???
3) Profit!
Step 2 is "Realize how stupid Step 1 is".
It has become obvious that you only try to bait me. Well played, troll. I think I'm done here.
My opinion is that the PS3 has this feature (at least in part) to give Sony some legal leverage, and a likely instance for such leverage to be used would be if a similar "import tax" situation happened. This is why I mentioned it.
The jurisdiction is completely irrelevant, which is why I did not name one.
Are you sure you understand what you're dealing with?
(I get bonus point for using the actual website the case is about)
Until NPD releases its November numbers or Sony makes an announcement I think those are about as accurate as we're going to get.
Unfortunately, neither of these are very accurate. NPD does not get any data from Wal-Mart, which probably skews that data just a smidge. And Sony has recently become fond of quoting how many machines they've shipped, not sold. Of course, PS3s aren't piling up on store shelves, so for the time being Sony's announcements will likely be accurate.
Before anyone mentions nexgenwars.com
too late...
[MMORPGS] make piracy impossible.
Where there's a will, there's aserver emulator.
experimental games that I see coming out of major game studios still hold tight to their expensive high-detail graphics and whatnot.
Case in point: Shenmue. Moving on:
a key lesson that the game industry could stand to learn is they don't have to have incredibly complex graphics and endless content in order to make a game look good and get played a lot
Define "game industry". I assume you mean the "big" companies here, and for them this is probably true. But there are other game makers who have discovered this fact, and they call it "shareware", or are named PopCap.
To begin, we must define the manner in which the PS2 was "not considered a computer". My definition of this is:
The PS2 was classified as a "game console" in the UK. Sony appealed, in court, to reclassify it as a "computer". A UK Court of Appeal denied this reclassification.
If you base your claim off of this definition, you must show that the same chain of events took place regarding the PS3. Namely:
Now if you look at my (first) reply to you, I was saying that you have not shown the above events to have happened. QED. In fact...
That's because Sony has yet to make the claim to get a tax rebate on the PS3.
Hmm.
As for my original post:
The real reason that Sony built this into the PS3 was to avoid import tariffs.
You claim this statement is false because there was some court ruling in some jurisdiction regarding a similar issue with the PS2, and obviously I'm thinking of that. This is not the case. Once again, I failed to spell out every minute detail of my argument, and you fill in the blanks like a toddler doing the NYT crossword. I guess the speculative nature and lack of sources in my original post didn't tip you off that this is my opinion.
***ASIDE: THE PRECEDING SENTENCE IMPLIES THAT MY ORIGINAL POST WAS MY OPINION. PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THIS***
And yet, instead of, like, asking me if I maybe confused things, you claim I'm an idiot. This may be a fair assessment, as my reply assumed you actually understood my argument, which is clearly not the case.
Yes, Peter Pan gets special treatment, but that's not the only exception in the UK. The King James Bible and the Book of Common Prayer (and some other stuff) are under perpetual copyright.
So the writers for all financial rags are really techies in disguise? Sorry, but most of the stuff I read from "financial" "analysts" takes a pretty similar tone, where any company that's not raking in quarterly profits and also cutting costs is marked as a failure.
I have to say I agree. While I really think it's cool that Ubuntu is basically Shuttleworth paying people to hack together a good distro, the binary drivers issue is a real sticking point for me.
As with most any problem, there are multiple solutions. For this particular problem, one solution would be to support or fund development of reverse-engineered drivers for 3D cards that are currently unsupported in x.org, DRI, etc. Of course, this solution would take time and money, and has elements of uncertainty. I guess Mr. Shuttleworth decided that instead of doing things the hard (read: right) way, it's more important to get uber-leet 3D desktops, while at the same time selling out the community that has insisted on Free drivers.
one thing that I did not notice was region-specific documentation for water cleanliness training, etc. I thought that these would be customized for each country/region.
lol prototype
The "personal savior" line is very rarely found outside of Protestant groups.
Most Protestant groups don't use the term either.