The original model let the keyboard fold into the back of the screen, turning it into a tablet computer. That was as perfect a ebook as you could want. Now the thing works like a normal laptop. Oh well.
Quite frankly, [MS|IBM|DR] DOS had much better text-based help, because if would show you the syntax, the options, and several exapmples with an explanation of what would happen in each example. Any reasonably intelligent user could figure out how to use DOS command that way and even get it right the first time.
Ubuntu server install doesn't differ much from clean Debian install. I used to be running Ubuntu Warty built up from server install (fluxbox instead of gnome etc.), but dist-upgrading to Hoary then messed up my customized system real harasho.
I figured out that it would be easier to do clean install than go through mess of purging all unwanted packages (mainly gnome stuff) that came with the dist-upgrade. This time I decided to go with Debian as I'd probably have had same problems again when dist-upgrading from Hoary to Breezy.
If you are going to use Gnome anyway, then server install of Dapper makes perfect sense. Otherwise, I'd recommend to stay with Debian.
But anyway, if the GUI way is so easy... why would you bother giving the techie instructions? "Click update" is going to be a hell of a lot faster than opening a terminal window, whether or not you're a techie. So why bother with the sudo crap?
Well... it depends. I like to use CLI for updating software because it's more flexible and powerful than doing the same thru GUI. For example I was in Ireland a while ago visiting my friend and I needed to update stuff on my home puter. (Which is in Helsinki, Finland) So I simply logged in using SSH on friend's laptop and ran # apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. Job done. If I knew only how to "click update", then doing it from 2000km away would be a tad harder thing to archive.
I haven't done updating software in GUI way for a some time. When I really started with linux I used Synaptic (GTK GUI for apt-get), but soon switched to using command line because for me it is simply a faster way to search and update software than clicking, pointing and scrolling with mouse. Once you know the commands it takes few seconds to type them and you're done.
Here's the procedure which I would use to see if there's a program called cplay and install it via CLI: Alt-t (this opens aterm window in my system) apt-cache search cplay (searches apt database for program named cplay) apt-get install cplay (installs program named cplay)
Doing the same with Synaptic GUI:
right click (opens menu)
move mouse to fileutils->synaptic
click synaptic (starts loading synatic apt GUI)
move mouse over search button
click (opens search box)
move mouse to searchbox
click
type cplay
move mouse over search results
click icon next to cplay
move mouse over "Apply" button
click
First way is much quicker. There are even simpler GUIs for apt than synaptic though. One example being update manager in Ubuntu, but more you simplify, more you lose features.
You have a point though. People who use apt-get from CLI surely know the commands, but it's hebrew to people who never used it. I agree...I'd first show my mum the GUI way of doing it too. (Though my mum isn't reading slahdot). But you're wrong if you think using command line is about showing "high priesthood of technology". Most people who use CLI use it to get things done easier/quicker/more effetively etc. It's all about choosing the right tool for the job.
'm not a 'common user', but I'm not a programmer...
it took me 3 weeks of posting to forums (fora?) to get my sound card and video card working; and a further week to get the laptop to connect to a projector for presentations etc. The laptop installed Windows XP in 2 hours and worked perfectly first time, first day.
Maybe you are just more exprienced in installing windows than linux? Getting sound and video working is usually quite straight forward when you know what to do.
Problem which many people fail to see (i don't know about you) is that years of experience in wondows doesn't count in linux. New user will likely have problems in windows too. Im sure you have helped computer illeterate friends to get "that modem" working in windows etc. You know what to do, they don't. So it's easy for you. Same goes with linux, one can't master it without using it.
I've had similar experiences with ATI cards. Their drivers are average at best.
On hardware side they often seem to be better than NVidia stuff. My first 3D cards were TNT2 and GeForce2 from NVidia. Those worked okay, but then i got Radeon 9800pro and was really suprised by sharpness and clarity of it's image. Much better than what i got used to with NVidia cards i owned previously. I got 3d acceleration to work fine on linux (Ubuntu) without too much hassle. Performance with fglrx was equal or better to windows drivers.
This good impression led me to buy X800XT PE about a year ago and I swapped 9800pro to my linux server running Debian. Problems with drivers begun. Fglrx driver refused to work at 1280x960 (X wouldn't start) so now im using open source drivers with 2d only. At 1024x768 3D fglrx driver seems to work allright, but that resolution isn't the best for my monitor.
Catalyst drivers in windows worked quite well for X800XT, except few minor texture glitches in some 3D games. The new ATI Control Center was absolutely horrible. Slow, ugly, resource heavy and unresponsive. I was suprised that it didn't outright crash my system.
My X800XT died about a month ago and I decided to go for NVidia. I bought GF 7800GS and the first thing i noticed is less sharp 2D image and slightly saturated colors. Drivers work well tho. No problems whatsoever so far. Even if image quality isn't quite as good as with ATI the performance and non buggy drivers make up for it.
My friend's Duron (i believe it was 650MHz) exploded while running at stock speeds.
Though I guess CPU heatsink not being correctly secured had something to do with it.:)
I suppose all modern CPUs have somekind of power-off or throttling mechanism built inside to prevent this from happening.
Same as my experience. I installed Suse 10.0 and have a Radeon 9800 pro, and it didn't get recognized. Why not? I can't find any way of making Suse detect it, or even letting me browse for one.
Uhhhh, no it's not, not to say that Ubuntu isn't good, but Novell's SuSE Linux is the most polished and accessible distribution. Everything "Just Works" (tm) in Novell SuSE and they aren't all upitty about including binary only modules / plugins. As a bonus, you won't get laughed out of a meeting (or even better fired) for throwing the name Novell around like you will Ubuntu.
It's funny how these discussions about distributions always end up in pissing contests. I'd like to know how you define that SuSE is the the most polished and accessible distribution? I understand it works for you, but how are you so sure about needs of everyone else?
I started with Ubuntu. I like it a lot. Then I swithed to Debian because i found that using the command line is often easier for me than navigating thru GUIs. My WM of choice is Fluxbox. So to get rid of Gnome, but maintain usability of apt-get (which i really grew fond of in ubuntu) I wanted to choose Debian. It's a perfect choice for me and like you say about SuSE it "just works". For me.
I know a linux noob who started with Gentoo and is happy with it. I tried to point him to Ubuntu, but he refused and said; "I wan't to learn how to use this thing". People are looking for different things and that's just what Linux has to offer. The ability to choose.
There sure is mainstream of computer users who don't want to learn to use computers efficiently, but just want to learn basics quick and get on with their stuff. I usully point these people to try Ubuntu, SuSE and Mandriva. I don't claim that experienced users couldn't be at home with these distros. Sure they can if they like using Gnome or KDE.
If you get laughed out of meeting for saying; "Ubuntu". I have to say im sorry for you.;)
Those games you love to play on Windows? GIve them up.
Im in quite lucky position since the game i most played in windows was Targetware, which as i noticed runs much better on linux (better fps, lot smoother) It made me really wish more games would be made for linux due to obivious benefits of better memory management (you need less physical memory for similar performance as windows tends to swap too easily). So i want to add in what you say. Very likely, but not necessarily.
But also:
Those mp3s and DVDs? Don't expect them to play out-of-the-box. I'm serious.
It doesn't take more than few minutes (or few seconds using a script) to get them working and it's not really that hard. Installing codecs is overall easier than installing additional audio/video codecs to play most DivX and Xvid content on windows platform.
Though it would be good idea for ubuntu devs to add the script on desktop of new ubuntu install so users could just click on "Add non-free software repositories & Install commercial codec support" icon and be done with it.
At the moment, the finalists in my decision are it and the X41
I have Thinkpad X41 and im very fond of it.
I pretty much carry it with me everywhere i go - 1.25 kg isn't too heavy for my taste and it nicely fits in my bag - so there's no reason not to. Only things i don't like about it are short battery life (about 2h) with standard 4-cell battery and the fact that i was forced to buy a windows licence with it (included in the price). The first thing i did was erase the HD and install debian on it. I have no regrets buying it, but i think i have to get that 8-cell battery soon.
As I am now on Fedora core 5 I can't figure out how to get wireless on my centrino chipset...
In case it's Intel 2915ABG or 2200BG http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net/
Compiling the driver from source was least hassle for me.
Re:Mr. Thurrott forgives Microsoft
on
How Vista Disappoints
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
not one single consumer wants the UNIX security model, either.
Not one single consumer?
Im quite happy with Unix security model. Im a Linux noob and it took me few hours to get hang of the basics of UNIX security concept. Root / user division in user accounts, filesystem and devices. I much prefer this security approach to windows one (or should i say lack of).
Maybe *nixes aren't just your thing? Im not saying that security model is ideal (tho i cant think of better for myself), but i fail to see how it's so hard to use or uncustomizable.
OSX users don't seem to have so hard time with it either and sure you can set up sudo for other *nixes too if that matters.
Once I understood bit linux I found this ability to tinker (and freedom to choose) actually making it easier for me to get things done.
Windows is much more unpredictable and akward to use in it's obscurity. I used MS operating systems for 15 years and still can't really handle em. Hunting some little checkbox hiding somewhere under labyrinth of menus (if it even exists) can be much more frustrating than doing the needed task thru CLI. After one year with debian i know which is my choice.
People are different. What is easy for one might not be easy for another. It's not like one size fits all. Too often people label linux users as hobbyists or tinkerers. I use linux because it works. If it means few hours of tinkering to get my system to work like i want it to - i'll happily do so. As a result i will have an ergonomic system that fits my needs. (Which might be different from vision by apple/microsoft)
I just bought an IBM (or lenovo?) laptop. No way i could have bought it without donating my money to microsoft. From every reseller the same story, MS pays IBM per every laptop sold, so goes their contract and there's no way around it. I might have got it with windows XP erased, but that would have cost me extra. The same thing is with all major laptop manufacturers. Customer has no choice.
I know I'll never use XP that ships with it. When i receive the thing i will wipe the HD clean of MS shit and install debian on it.
I feel i've been screwed. But i just have to swallow it.
Slashdot Mirror
The original model let the keyboard fold into the back of the screen, turning it into a tablet computer. That was as perfect a ebook as you could want. Now the thing works like a normal laptop. Oh well.
= 700&a=180353&po=4,00.asp
One they were demoing definetely has a screen you can rotate around and fold. http://www.eweek.com/slideshow_viewer/0,1205,l=&s
Quite frankly, [MS|IBM|DR] DOS had much better text-based help, because if would show you the syntax, the options, and several exapmples with an explanation of what would happen in each example. Any reasonably intelligent user could figure out how to use DOS command that way and even get it right the first time.
Like --help?
I like to install ONLY what I need, as I need it.
Why not use Debian testing/unstable then?
Ubuntu server install doesn't differ much from clean Debian install. I used to be running Ubuntu Warty built up from server install (fluxbox instead of gnome etc.), but dist-upgrading to Hoary then messed up my customized system real harasho.
I figured out that it would be easier to do clean install than go through mess of purging all unwanted packages (mainly gnome stuff) that came with the dist-upgrade. This time I decided to go with Debian as I'd probably have had same problems again when dist-upgrading from Hoary to Breezy.
If you are going to use Gnome anyway, then server install of Dapper makes perfect sense. Otherwise, I'd recommend to stay with Debian.
But anyway, if the GUI way is so easy... why would you bother giving the techie instructions? "Click update" is going to be a hell of a lot faster than opening a terminal window, whether or not you're a techie. So why bother with the sudo crap?
Well... it depends. I like to use CLI for updating software because it's more flexible and powerful than doing the same thru GUI. For example I was in Ireland a while ago visiting my friend and I needed to update stuff on my home puter. (Which is in Helsinki, Finland) So I simply logged in using SSH on friend's laptop and ran # apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. Job done. If I knew only how to "click update", then doing it from 2000km away would be a tad harder thing to archive.
I haven't done updating software in GUI way for a some time. When I really started with linux I used Synaptic (GTK GUI for apt-get), but soon switched to using command line because for me it is simply a faster way to search and update software than clicking, pointing and scrolling with mouse. Once you know the commands it takes few seconds to type them and you're done.
Here's the procedure which I would use to see if there's a program called cplay and install it via CLI:
Alt-t (this opens aterm window in my system)
apt-cache search cplay (searches apt database for program named cplay)
apt-get install cplay (installs program named cplay)
Doing the same with Synaptic GUI:
right click (opens menu)
move mouse to fileutils->synaptic
click synaptic (starts loading synatic apt GUI)
move mouse over search button
click (opens search box)
move mouse to searchbox
click
type cplay
move mouse over search results
click icon next to cplay
move mouse over "Apply" button
click
First way is much quicker. There are even simpler GUIs for apt than synaptic though. One example being update manager in Ubuntu, but more you simplify, more you lose features.
You have a point though. People who use apt-get from CLI surely know the commands, but it's hebrew to people who never used it. I agree...I'd first show my mum the GUI way of doing it too. (Though my mum isn't reading slahdot). But you're wrong if you think using command line is about showing "high priesthood of technology". Most people who use CLI use it to get things done easier/quicker/more effetively etc. It's all about choosing the right tool for the job.
I also run certain Games, and also Flight Simulator for entertainment.
Have you tried Targetware http://www.targetware.net/
Sorry about screwed up formatting. Forgot slash.
Only the first paragraph is supposed to be in italics.
Next time i'll preview before posting.
'm not a 'common user', but I'm not a programmer... it took me 3 weeks of posting to forums (fora?) to get my sound card and video card working; and a further week to get the laptop to connect to a projector for presentations etc. The laptop installed Windows XP in 2 hours and worked perfectly first time, first day.
Maybe you are just more exprienced in installing windows than linux? Getting sound and video working is usually quite straight forward when you know what to do.
Problem which many people fail to see (i don't know about you) is that years of experience in wondows doesn't count in linux. New user will likely have problems in windows too. Im sure you have helped computer illeterate friends to get "that modem" working in windows etc. You know what to do, they don't. So it's easy for you. Same goes with linux, one can't master it without using it.
I've had similar experiences with ATI cards. Their drivers are average at best.
On hardware side they often seem to be better than NVidia stuff. My first 3D cards were TNT2 and GeForce2 from NVidia. Those worked okay, but then i got Radeon 9800pro and was really suprised by sharpness and clarity of it's image. Much better than what i got used to with NVidia cards i owned previously. I got 3d acceleration to work fine on linux (Ubuntu) without too much hassle. Performance with fglrx was equal or better to windows drivers.
This good impression led me to buy X800XT PE about a year ago and I swapped 9800pro to my linux server running Debian. Problems with drivers begun. Fglrx driver refused to work at 1280x960 (X wouldn't start) so now im using open source drivers with 2d only. At 1024x768 3D fglrx driver seems to work allright, but that resolution isn't the best for my monitor.
Catalyst drivers in windows worked quite well for X800XT, except few minor texture glitches in some 3D games. The new ATI Control Center was absolutely horrible. Slow, ugly, resource heavy and unresponsive. I was suprised that it didn't outright crash my system.
My X800XT died about a month ago and I decided to go for NVidia. I bought GF 7800GS and the first thing i noticed is less sharp 2D image and slightly saturated colors. Drivers work well tho. No problems whatsoever so far. Even if image quality isn't quite as good as with ATI the performance and non buggy drivers make up for it.
My friend's Duron (i believe it was 650MHz) exploded while running at stock speeds. :)
Though I guess CPU heatsink not being correctly secured had something to do with it.
I suppose all modern CPUs have somekind of power-off or throttling mechanism built inside to prevent this from happening.
Same as my experience. I installed Suse 10.0 and have a Radeon 9800 pro, and it didn't get recognized. Why not? I can't find any way of making Suse detect it, or even letting me browse for one.
:)
Maybe you have to install drivers for it.
Actually, I would recommend slashdotters stay away from Linux entirely.
This is because the world needs fewer Whiney Distro Fanboys.
As much i like linux (or solely because of this), I wholeheartedly agree with you.
Uhhhh, no it's not, not to say that Ubuntu isn't good, but Novell's SuSE Linux is the most polished and accessible distribution. Everything "Just Works" (tm) in Novell SuSE and they aren't all upitty about including binary only modules / plugins. As a bonus, you won't get laughed out of a meeting (or even better fired) for throwing the name Novell around like you will Ubuntu.
;)
It's funny how these discussions about distributions always end up in pissing contests. I'd like to know how you define that SuSE is the the most polished and accessible distribution? I understand it works for you, but how are you so sure about needs of everyone else?
I started with Ubuntu. I like it a lot. Then I swithed to Debian because i found that using the command line is often easier for me than navigating thru GUIs. My WM of choice is Fluxbox. So to get rid of Gnome, but maintain usability of apt-get (which i really grew fond of in ubuntu) I wanted to choose Debian. It's a perfect choice for me and like you say about SuSE it "just works". For me.
I know a linux noob who started with Gentoo and is happy with it. I tried to point him to Ubuntu, but he refused and said; "I wan't to learn how to use this thing". People are looking for different things and that's just what Linux has to offer. The ability to choose.
There sure is mainstream of computer users who don't want to learn to use computers efficiently, but just want to learn basics quick and get on with their stuff. I usully point these people to try Ubuntu, SuSE and Mandriva. I don't claim that experienced users couldn't be at home with these distros. Sure they can if they like using Gnome or KDE.
If you get laughed out of meeting for saying; "Ubuntu". I have to say im sorry for you.
Not only should you warn your friends:
Those games you love to play on Windows? GIve them up.
Im in quite lucky position since the game i most played in windows was Targetware, which as i noticed runs much better on linux (better fps, lot smoother) It made me really wish more games would be made for linux due to obivious benefits of better memory management (you need less physical memory for similar performance as windows tends to swap too easily). So i want to add in what you say. Very likely, but not necessarily.
But also:
Those mp3s and DVDs? Don't expect them to play out-of-the-box. I'm serious.
It doesn't take more than few minutes (or few seconds using a script) to get them working and it's not really that hard. Installing codecs is overall easier than installing additional audio/video codecs to play most DivX and Xvid content on windows platform.
Though it would be good idea for ubuntu devs to add the script on desktop of new ubuntu install so users could just click on "Add non-free software repositories & Install commercial codec support" icon and be done with it.
At the moment, the finalists in my decision are it and the X41
I have Thinkpad X41 and im very fond of it.
I pretty much carry it with me everywhere i go - 1.25 kg isn't too heavy for my taste and it nicely fits in my bag - so there's no reason not to. Only things i don't like about it are short battery life (about 2h) with standard 4-cell battery and the fact that i was forced to buy a windows licence with it (included in the price). The first thing i did was erase the HD and install debian on it. I have no regrets buying it, but i think i have to get that 8-cell battery soon.
Linux certainly isn't as easy to use as Windows
True, Linux is easier.
My 256 Kbit DSL connection is fifty bucks a month. That's certainly not cheap either!
And I thought my 8Mbit DSL at 45eur/month was expensive.
Btw. It seems like the euro symbol doesn't work on slashdot? (i can type it into comment field, but it doesn't appear in the preview)
but yeah, it made for truly surreal reading. Linux users. Being. Helpful.
4 2247
Terve, Unski.
I don't know if you're being sarcastic (probably so). But if you think that's surreal, then check this out:
http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1
Best Nokia product i owned was pair of their rubber boots.
Too bad they ditched that business in favor of mobile phones.
I kid you not; they also used to make great WC-paper
Not that Nokia cell phones aren't fine. But wiping ones ass with Nokia sure was something.
As I am now on Fedora core 5 I can't figure out how to get wireless on my centrino chipset...
In case it's Intel 2915ABG or 2200BG
http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net/
Compiling the driver from source was least hassle for me.
not one single consumer wants the UNIX security model, either.
Not one single consumer?
Im quite happy with Unix security model. Im a Linux noob and it took me few hours to get hang of the basics of UNIX security concept. Root / user division in user accounts, filesystem and devices. I much prefer this security approach to windows one (or should i say lack of).
Maybe *nixes aren't just your thing? Im not saying that security model is ideal (tho i cant think of better for myself), but i fail to see how it's so hard to use or uncustomizable. OSX users don't seem to have so hard time with it either and sure you can set up sudo for other *nixes too if that matters.
Exactly.
Once I understood bit linux I found this ability to tinker (and freedom to choose) actually making it easier for me to get things done.
Windows is much more unpredictable and akward to use in it's obscurity. I used MS operating systems for 15 years and still can't really handle em. Hunting some little checkbox hiding somewhere under labyrinth of menus (if it even exists) can be much more frustrating than doing the needed task thru CLI. After one year with debian i know which is my choice.
People are different. What is easy for one might not be easy for another. It's not like one size fits all. Too often people label linux users as hobbyists or tinkerers. I use linux because it works. If it means few hours of tinkering to get my system to work like i want it to - i'll happily do so. As a result i will have an ergonomic system that fits my needs. (Which might be different from vision by apple/microsoft)
Cell has been running linux for quite some time.
http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6219524044.html http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9098337586.html
Yeah, whatever.
I just bought an IBM (or lenovo?) laptop. No way i could have bought it without donating my money to microsoft. From every reseller the same story, MS pays IBM per every laptop sold, so goes their contract and there's no way around it. I might have got it with windows XP erased, but that would have cost me extra. The same thing is with all major laptop manufacturers. Customer has no choice.
I know I'll never use XP that ships with it. When i receive the thing i will wipe the HD clean of MS shit and install debian on it.
I feel i've been screwed. But i just have to swallow it.