Lock in? No, there's a difference between "using their own thing" and "lock in".
The only difference is perceived intention. "Using their own thing" achieves the goal of "Lock in" through making it proprietary.
Its one of the moves Microsoft uses. For example, DirectX... There is no reason for it to exist these days [*], as OpenGL can in principle do (or be made to do) everything DirectX does. If all companies were 100% behind OpenGL then OpenGL would evolve faster. Microsoft want DirectX as it provides a degree of lock in into Windows. (Its only a degree of lock in, its not total, but its enough).
([*] - yes we can argue low level access and later shader support etc.., but ultimately if we had industry wide 100% support of OpenGL then it would get these things faster).
Perceived intention, is not a difference. Its just how you wish or more to the point, how other companies wish their products and product design goals to be perceived. "using their own thing" and "lock in" are the same thing.
"Now try to actually find some torrent" and "critical mass' of users."
Getting it to a critical mass of users is going to be a very important goal, but ironically I think help will come from companies like Phorm. As a lot of people are going to want to seek ways to avoid being so mercilessly exploited by companies like Phorm. Its ironically a very good rallying cry to effectively market I2P as a means to avoid Phorm. (I2P isn't perfect (yet) at avoiding Phorm, but its a lot better than not having it).
"I am so going to write a device driver virus for these things and call it Logan."
While you are writing the virus, others will be earning a fortune selling software and hardware upgrades to do things like...
(A) Military Camouflage - Suitable for all terrian with optional real time Cameleon/Predator mode.
(B) Medical sensors - Go to the doctors. They ask were does it hurt, and you point them to the bit thats flashing red!, then you bring up a full sensor and diagnostics display.
(C) Sell advertising space - People can rent themselves out as advertising boards. Sponsered by Nike etc..
(D) Allow people to buy themed artwork for going out etc..
(E) Sell clothing with same technology in it. Full Predator mode suits!:)
Re:What about MySQL?
on
Oracle Buys Sun
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
"Since Oracle likes primarily using "their own thing""
I think this is one of the biggest potential down sides of this deal. Oracle seek to control their products through using "their own thing"... This product lock in is part of their thinking and so part of their product lifespan planning process. Now that kind of thinking will be applied to everything Sun has given them.
"Compare the shinkansen in Japan and the TGV in France"
Yes I agree its not exactly as exciting. The Koreans also totally beat it with 350 km/h trains and they already have them working just like Japan etc... This 150MPH train system is years from being a reality.
e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Train_Express
This idea could be so much more. Considering the size of America and modern engineering methods, the proposed speeds for this system already fall way below existing trains like the Shinkansen. (I had to look it up, I remember many years ago the so called at the time Bullet Trains were already fast and they are old). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen
Surely America can aspire to build something world class rather than average. Other countries are already doing more. America has the knowledge and engineering capabilities, it just fails in the management will to do something impressive and would sooner spend vast sums of money on proping up corrupt banks and their rich directors etc..
I'm disappointed rather than exciting by this news. It could have achieved so much more. In some ways it feels like a lost oppotunity that could so easily have really impressed and create something truely useful.
Businesses (like Google and Phorm) are mercilessly exploiting personal data on us all (for their own gain) to the point now its turning into a feeding frenzy and the law isn't changing fast enough to keep up and close down these relentless power grabs. (Also it is about power, as monitoring and profiling like this is a very powerful way to abuse so much information on so many people. Thats why governments also want to be part of this feeding frenzy for personal data, as they also gain by exploiting data on people for their own gain. Its also why they are very reluctant to make laws to ban such merciless exploitation. It takes time to force governments to listen to their people. In the mean time, businesses are showing they have utter contempt for peoples personal data.
... and within a few hours of me writing this above, I find news today that the UK and the whole of Europe is aiming to do exactly what I said other Governments would do when they see what Austrialia is aiming to do. Bring in Europe wide blocking... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/02/eu_filtering_framework/
Scope creep is a major aspect, but its worse than that, as it also provides an example to all governments, which is a danger to everyone around the world.
People who seek governmental power go into that kind of work because they want to have power over others (and power also means money). (They are constantly looking for new ways to gain more power for themselves and fearful of loosing power to their opponents). The drive to seek power and the fear of loosing power is why they are seeking to control the Internet.
All governments are like slime moulds seeking food and what feeds governmental power is finding ways to control people. All the individuals in the governmental slime mould are clambering over each other to feed their thirst for power. Its why different departments of government work independently yet all end up moving in the same direction, as they all ultimately seek the same thing. Power over people. The Internet (and extending the Internet into the real world) is a huge potential source of power over people. People in power both want and fear the Internet, because of what it means for their goal of seeking power. For example, large numbers of people viewing things online can stir up public opinion, which can undermine the people in power, as this leaked block list demonstrates.
This battle for censoring the Internet is just part of a larger battle, which is going to get ever worse control of everyone, until everyone stands up and provides opposition to the people who seek to use the Internet to gain ever more power over people. Also as fast as some stupid power grab over the Internet is forced back, the different members of the governmental slime mould all force forward dozens of other new power grabs, some of which take time to surface. That's why scope creep is so difficult to limit, bacause as fast as we try to stop one power grab, they add loads more power grabs.
This battle isn't between different political parties. They are all the same when it comes to their core goal of seeking power over people. Therefore there is no effective opposition to the political parties on this point. They all want to control the Internet.
This battle is between the elite few in power and the majority of people who the elite few aim to control (and then exploit for their own gain). This will continue to get ever worse control until the minority in power make life so difficult for the majority, that they finally stir up the majority to force some kind of fairness out of the relentlessly power seeking minority.
It will continue to get ever worse control because that is what the people in power want and currently there isn't sufficient opposition feedback to rein in their uncontrolled power grab. Its like a machine without feedback. Without enough feedback the machine runs out of control. Thats exactly want is happening now all over the world, with relentless power grabs to find ever more ways to control peoples lives.
Almost all the censorship talk is simply using FUD to sell the idea the governments need to grab control of the Internet... and the "almost" aspect is a key part of their plan. Its a clever chess move as it provides a thin Veneer of credibility to hide their core goal behind and to force people to accept what the governments want. Which is simply to seek more power, just like they always do.
"Traditional my ass. It's just people sore at being tricked trying to impose an arbitrary rule to turn it around on us."
I agree entirely. Its why April Fools day was known years ago as "All Fools Day"... (Its was never known as "All Fools 12 hours"). Also TV companies especially in the 1960s/1970s often done april fools *day* jokes, which had the jokes running all day. This new idea of all fools 12 hours is a relatively new idea and I agree, it is used as a defence by anyone caught out by an All Fools Day jokes.
"Just remember, if they did this, your post here may not have caused the movement."
Very true!:)... but still, it would be about as correlated with the movement, as Vinyl flooring is with Autism.;)
Joking aside, I wouldn't want any connection or fame from any kind of movement, I just want to live in a world where everyone in the world finally understood the difference.:)... ([disclaimer_to_some_posters], yes I know some do, but many don't, which is why we all need to tell others who don't.[disclaimer_end])
I was replying the point about correlation and causation. Its a discussion forum after all... Therefore someone says something then someone else replies to that to *continue* *that* discussion. Clearly you can't see that's the case.
"Hopefully without people like you obfuscating the issue, with correlation and causation."
To partly use (with some humour) your own words to answer your point... Hopefully without people like you being unable to see I wasn't saying what you assume, (about vinyl flooring and autism) then you wouldn't bother wasting time obfuscating the issue about correlation and causation.;)
Joking aside, yes the correlation is still there, but that correlation isn't proof its causation. Its just one more correlation with autism, (which is why I gave my somewhat joking point about sea waves, which are also just one more correlation with autism, but are most definately not the cause of autism).
Frankly I would be happy for them to continue to believe vinyl flooring is the problem. After all, that clearly explains why autism has existed throughout history as its common knowlege stone age mankind prefered vinyl flooring, giving rise the now near epidemic levels of autistics like me which must now be cured from the face of humanity.;)... so I'm all for them believing vinyl flooring is the problem.;)
"Did you even read the study to figure out if they established a causal link or are you just out of hand dismissing it?"
No, I'm not out of hand dismissing it. But while we are on that point, I don't believe the research, because I have also researched Autism. Also every few months some researchers claim they have found the reason for Autism, yet interestingly each have different explanations. The funny thing is they can't all be correct, yet interestingly they all think they have the answer.
In fact I know Autism extremely well, because I am autistic, and frankly hell will freeze over before I would ever let anyone cure me of what advantages it gives me in seeing patterns in things non-autistics often cannot see. Non-autistics of course often do not believe any form of Autism has any advantage. Often non-autistics ego's simply will not allow the thought others could see things they cannot and so they are very quick to seek ways to put down Autistics.
Also before you say it, you bet I'm militant about it. For too long I've watched autistics being put down by non-autistics for not conforming to non-autistics expected patterns of behavior and for too long many autistics who could go on to achieve good things, have instead been lead to believe they cannot achieve much in life. Many autistics can achieve great things and more would if the educational approaches were altered to suit (and respect) autistic needs and their way of thinking about the world. (Plus I'm not just talking about groups such as HFA and Aspergers etc.. I'm talking about helping lots of forms of autistics). The drug companies also see autistics as a big money making market and they are helping to promote and market the idea so many autistics need help. Far fewer than the drug companies want people to believe actually need drug company help.
I've also noticed a lot of misdiagnoses going on with autistics which is just helping to make discussions about Autism more complex. Its also often so hard to say anything about Autism without someone jumping in and talking about, the Savants who do need help. Yes they do need help, but there are more forms of autistics than just this high profile group and even Savants can be greatly helped with better suited education.
@Cube Steak: Anyway back to my point. (That is unless you want me to extend this into a 200 page essay on the subject of Autism). My point was about correlation & causation. This is a discussion forum you know. Discussions evolve as one person says something, which prompts others to reply to extend the discussion. (Its what makes this a discussion forum!). I simply said about the importance of getting everyone worldwide (on every subject) to distinguish between correlation & causation. That point still stands.
"So unless the parents have a genetic predisposition to both autism and vinyl flooring"
There is a strong connection between genetics and autism. The problem with any discussion on autism is that the spectrum of autism is so wide it covers many forms of autism. So its wrong to simply generalize to say all forms of autism have a genetic basis, but most do have a strong genetic basis.
The vinyl flooring aspect I was saying more tongue in cheek.;) Although that said, autistics do often have a very strong focus on small details (I was imagining the very detailed patterns that can be printed in vinyl flooring;)... (Although joking aside, this very strong focus is what gives an advantage in jobs such as science, engineering and art... all these areas need extremely detailed and long term study).
"correlation is not causation"
Its very unfortunate that everyone in the world doesn't know the difference. It would solve so many problems in the world, if everyone was forced to learn the difference throughout school and in everyday adult life. Everyone would find life so much better as so many arguments would be avoided and things would get fixed quicker. The people behind funding education in science need to focus a vast amount of time, money and effort into promoting understanding in this simple yet vital bit of education. (I would go as far as to say we need a day per year to remind everyone, like a "world correlation is not causation day!"... and i'm not joking, we really need to get everyone in the world finally past this stumbling block.
"autism AND vinyl flooring."
It could also simply be for example, (on average) more autistic people prefer and enjoy the look, patterning, practical ease of use, feel and/or smell of vinyl flooring. Its like saying, which comes first, Autism or Vinyl flooring.
They could just as easily say looking at the sea causes Autism... because they will find (if they bother to study it) that most Autistic people will (on average) enjoy spending longer looking at the sea waves with their every changing details and changing specular highlights as they break and merge combined with the complex yet rhythmic sounds of the waves breaking on the beach etc..
"No - this is a derivative of the 1960s Apollo capsule. But look at the bright side - all the relevant patents have expired by now."
I like the idea of an open source Apollo Rocket. Although for home build, I'm guessing finding a big enough garden shed for it, is going to be the least of the technical problems, so to speak.
"In other words, no government will much give a damn if a hostile country listens in on calls made into their territory if preventing that means any decrease in their own ability to conduct surveillance. "
Thats not entirely true. They do care if hostile country listens in on calls, but they only care if they are going to loose out from it.
There was a documentary on sky science a few days ago about hacking. What stood out for me was a comment by some government ex-director of security saying that at least 127 countries have government sponsored groups setup to hack other countries to spy on each other. They actually aim to hack other countries to spy on each other.
So with governments so willing to play this game between each other, I guess its nothing to them, to want to also do this on everyone they have power over in their own country. The people at the top are just eternally paranoid and terrified at loosing power, so they want to always watch everyone else to prevent anyone taking any of their power from them... while we all suffer being swept along in their paranoia and power games. We are suppose to choose and vote them in, but once they get into power, they want to keep ever tighter controls on all of us. We are suppose to be controlling them, not them controlling us. ie. "Democracy is a form of government in which power is held directly or indirectly by citizens under a free electoral system."... So what is it, if they no longer want us to have a Democracy?
I hate how people FUD Google and others for making things available that others have collected for years.
Most privacy is simply privacy via obscurity. By centralizing and organizing the data, privacy is removed.
The question then becomes why do people want privacy. Privacy is effectively protection via obscurity.
Which moves the point on to why do people feel the need for protection from some other people. Once you answer that question, it becomes obvious why people do not want to trust corporations (like Google) to offer protection and privacy.
There are some people in this world who want to exploit others. Corporations want to exploit people for profit. Governments want to exploit people to gain and hold onto power. Its all about personal gain. They are more interested in their personal gain, than they are in caring about other people. (The world economic news in the past 6 months has been filled with examples of their selfcentred and selfserving behavior).
(If you want to change your world view, then check out this documentary about Corporations. The world isn't as Utopian as you currently wish to believe it is and you need to see through your Utopian view for your own protection from their behavior).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa3wyaEe9vE
If we lived in a utopia, then Google style massive information collection on everyone wouldn't be a danger, as no one would seek to exploit it. But we don't and never will live in a utopia. There will always be some people who will seek to exploit others for their own gain.
"it needs to be fought with good privacy laws."
So who do you think makes the laws?... the ruling elite. The exact same group who wish to exploit others for their own gain, as they seek power. (They spend their lives learning how to gain and hold on to power over others, because if they don't then others will at their expense. That is the world view of politicians. Regardless of their party view, because the underlying psychology that is driving them is always the same, to seek power and prevent others having power over them. Its an endless game of power seeking for them).
"If we keep freedom in mind, the right answers will come"
Thats a wonderful Utopian view, but the world isn't like that. Some people in this world don't want others to have freedom, as they seek to be the people in power over others. Any act of seeking power over others, requires them to remove power from someone else and so restrict some freedom of the person being ruled over. So they don't have freedom in mind. They have power in mind. They are thinking along the lines of "How can I gain and hold onto power over others". That is why knowledge is power, as some people wish to use knowledge about other people, to give them power over them. There will always be some people who will seek to exploit others for their own gain regardless of if they seek to gain money or seek to gain power over others.
"My conclusion was that as it's written by the register, it's over sensationalised."
You just don't listen do you... You still can't see its irrelevant that its *also* written about in The Register. Key word, ALSO. In other words, there are OTHER sources of the SAME news.
"I said they often don't bother checking their facts"
Then you *keep making* the same mistakes as The Register makes, as you also fail to check the facts. There are OTHER sources of the SAME news and you would see this, if you did check the facts, but you are stuck in a loop talking about The Register and so failing to see you are missing the important point.
The important point is that it was true. What The Register usually says or does is irrelevant, the news was still true.
If Hitler had said, 2+2=4 then would that be wrong because an evil tyrant had said it?... No, its still 2+2=4
In the same way, just because a news site you hate says something, doesn't automatically make everything they say wrong.
"what, if any restrictions are there on what you do with them." plus the parent posts, "equity stake should only be considered for such a long-term commitment if" and "What would be meaningful is a 10% revenue share of the annual profits."
Another thing to watch out for with an equity stake is the small print. Because the next logical business move from a boss to just say in passing, (as if its unimportant) something like, "well you are getting a (good) share of the profits now, so that is your wages as well". Which at first sounds fine while the company is doing ok. But if the company has a bad patch, then you find you have very little money coming in. You need to have a guaranteed at least suvival wage plus shares. Be wary of this kind of move.
Also what exactly is the shares sharing out?... If the share is more like a performance bonus, so its sharing out some of the profits of the company, then how exactly do they calculate what is profit?. (I've got this problem now. Every expense and running cost they can dream up gets taken out, before finally I get a share of the profits of my work).
Be very wary small print and how they go about calculations of profits.
Your "conclusion" is that as it was said by The Register, then its wrong. That is a straw man argument.
Try reading your own post: "Dude. Weak. The Register?! You may as well be referencing Fox News, I've never read anything in the register that wasn't bleeding of oversensationalisation and regularly hit spots where they obviously haven't even made a slight attempt at verifying their story elements. The Register isn't a reliable source of anything, please don't spread their panic stories, you can do so much better I promise you."
I actually don't care one way or the other, about The Register. You are totally missing the point. Its not about The Register, its about the UK Government plans, which if you watch the continuing news (from many news sources), they all show what the UK government is up to. Jacqui Smith has been bad news for a long time.
Slashdot Mirror
Lock in? No, there's a difference between "using their own thing" and "lock in".
... There is no reason for it to exist these days [*], as OpenGL can in principle do (or be made to do) everything DirectX does. If all companies were 100% behind OpenGL then OpenGL would evolve faster. Microsoft want DirectX as it provides a degree of lock in into Windows. (Its only a degree of lock in, its not total, but its enough).
The only difference is perceived intention. "Using their own thing" achieves the goal of "Lock in" through making it proprietary.
Its one of the moves Microsoft uses. For example, DirectX
([*] - yes we can argue low level access and later shader support etc.., but ultimately if we had industry wide 100% support of OpenGL then it would get these things faster).
Perceived intention, is not a difference. Its just how you wish or more to the point, how other companies wish their products and product design goals to be perceived. "using their own thing" and "lock in" are the same thing.
"Now try to actually find some torrent" and "critical mass' of users."
Getting it to a critical mass of users is going to be a very important goal, but ironically I think help will come from companies like Phorm. As a lot of people are going to want to seek ways to avoid being so mercilessly exploited by companies like Phorm. Its ironically a very good rallying cry to effectively market I2P as a means to avoid Phorm. (I2P isn't perfect (yet) at avoiding Phorm, but its a lot better than not having it).
"I am so going to write a device driver virus for these things and call it Logan."
:)
While you are writing the virus, others will be earning a fortune selling software and hardware upgrades to do things like...
(A) Military Camouflage - Suitable for all terrian with optional real time Cameleon/Predator mode.
(B) Medical sensors - Go to the doctors. They ask were does it hurt, and you point them to the bit thats flashing red!, then you bring up a full sensor and diagnostics display.
(C) Sell advertising space - People can rent themselves out as advertising boards. Sponsered by Nike etc..
(D) Allow people to buy themed artwork for going out etc..
(E) Sell clothing with same technology in it. Full Predator mode suits!
"Since Oracle likes primarily using "their own thing""
... This product lock in is part of their thinking and so part of their product lifespan planning process. Now that kind of thinking will be applied to everything Sun has given them.
I think this is one of the biggest potential down sides of this deal. Oracle seek to control their products through using "their own thing"
"Compare the shinkansen in Japan and the TGV in France"
Yes I agree its not exactly as exciting. The Koreans also totally beat it with 350 km/h trains and they already have them working just like Japan etc... This 150MPH train system is years from being a reality. e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Train_Express This idea could be so much more. Considering the size of America and modern engineering methods, the proposed speeds for this system already fall way below existing trains like the Shinkansen. (I had to look it up, I remember many years ago the so called at the time Bullet Trains were already fast and they are old).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen
Surely America can aspire to build something world class rather than average. Other countries are already doing more. America has the knowledge and engineering capabilities, it just fails in the management will to do something impressive and would sooner spend vast sums of money on proping up corrupt banks and their rich directors etc..
I'm disappointed rather than exciting by this news. It could have achieved so much more. In some ways it feels like a lost oppotunity that could so easily have really impressed and create something truely useful.
"Allowing Phorm to do their thing has awful consequences."
Yes, I agree entirely, but its going to get much worse. Here's how its going to get worse...
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1184853&cid=27428923
Combine that post above with this one, and it shows how bad things can get...
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=989785&cid=25306989
"Yes it's very similar to what Google does."
Businesses (like Google and Phorm) are mercilessly exploiting personal data on us all (for their own gain) to the point now its turning into a feeding frenzy and the law isn't changing fast enough to keep up and close down these relentless power grabs. (Also it is about power, as monitoring and profiling like this is a very powerful way to abuse so much information on so many people. Thats why governments also want to be part of this feeding frenzy for personal data, as they also gain by exploiting data on people for their own gain. Its also why they are very reluctant to make laws to ban such merciless exploitation. It takes time to force governments to listen to their people. In the mean time, businesses are showing they have utter contempt for peoples personal data.
... and within a few hours of me writing this above, I find news today that the UK and the whole of Europe is aiming to do exactly what I said other Governments would do when they see what Austrialia is aiming to do. Bring in Europe wide blocking...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/02/eu_filtering_framework/
"because of scope creep"
... and the "almost" aspect is a key part of their plan. Its a clever chess move as it provides a thin Veneer of credibility to hide their core goal behind and to force people to accept what the governments want. Which is simply to seek more power, just like they always do.
Scope creep is a major aspect, but its worse than that, as it also provides an example to all governments, which is a danger to everyone around the world.
People who seek governmental power go into that kind of work because they want to have power over others (and power also means money). (They are constantly looking for new ways to gain more power for themselves and fearful of loosing power to their opponents). The drive to seek power and the fear of loosing power is why they are seeking to control the Internet.
All governments are like slime moulds seeking food and what feeds governmental power is finding ways to control people. All the individuals in the governmental slime mould are clambering over each other to feed their thirst for power. Its why different departments of government work independently yet all end up moving in the same direction, as they all ultimately seek the same thing. Power over people. The Internet (and extending the Internet into the real world) is a huge potential source of power over people. People in power both want and fear the Internet, because of what it means for their goal of seeking power. For example, large numbers of people viewing things online can stir up public opinion, which can undermine the people in power, as this leaked block list demonstrates.
This battle for censoring the Internet is just part of a larger battle, which is going to get ever worse control of everyone, until everyone stands up and provides opposition to the people who seek to use the Internet to gain ever more power over people. Also as fast as some stupid power grab over the Internet is forced back, the different members of the governmental slime mould all force forward dozens of other new power grabs, some of which take time to surface. That's why scope creep is so difficult to limit, bacause as fast as we try to stop one power grab, they add loads more power grabs.
This battle isn't between different political parties. They are all the same when it comes to their core goal of seeking power over people. Therefore there is no effective opposition to the political parties on this point. They all want to control the Internet.
This battle is between the elite few in power and the majority of people who the elite few aim to control (and then exploit for their own gain). This will continue to get ever worse control until the minority in power make life so difficult for the majority, that they finally stir up the majority to force some kind of fairness out of the relentlessly power seeking minority.
It will continue to get ever worse control because that is what the people in power want and currently there isn't sufficient opposition feedback to rein in their uncontrolled power grab. Its like a machine without feedback. Without enough feedback the machine runs out of control. Thats exactly want is happening now all over the world, with relentless power grabs to find ever more ways to control peoples lives.
Almost all the censorship talk is simply using FUD to sell the idea the governments need to grab control of the Internet
"Traditional my ass. It's just people sore at being tricked trying to impose an arbitrary rule to turn it around on us."
... (Its was never known as "All Fools 12 hours"). Also TV companies especially in the 1960s/1970s often done april fools *day* jokes, which had the jokes running all day. This new idea of all fools 12 hours is a relatively new idea and I agree, it is used as a defence by anyone caught out by an All Fools Day jokes.
I agree entirely. Its why April Fools day was known years ago as "All Fools Day"
"Just remember, if they did this, your post here may not have caused the movement."
:) ... but still, it would be about as correlated with the movement, as Vinyl flooring is with Autism. ;)
:) ... ([disclaimer_to_some_posters], yes I know some do, but many don't, which is why we all need to tell others who don't.[disclaimer_end])
Very true!
Joking aside, I wouldn't want any connection or fame from any kind of movement, I just want to live in a world where everyone in the world finally understood the difference.
I was replying the point about correlation and causation. Its a discussion forum after all ... Therefore someone says something then someone else replies to that to *continue* *that* discussion. Clearly you can't see that's the case.
As for your other comments thats answered here...
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1182839&cid=27415159
and here...
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1182839&cid=27416205
"Hopefully without people like you obfuscating the issue, with correlation and causation."
... Hopefully without people like you being unable to see I wasn't saying what you assume, (about vinyl flooring and autism) then you wouldn't bother wasting time obfuscating the issue about correlation and causation. ;)
;) ... so I'm all for them believing vinyl flooring is the problem. ;)
To partly use (with some humour) your own words to answer your point
Joking aside, yes the correlation is still there, but that correlation isn't proof its causation. Its just one more correlation with autism, (which is why I gave my somewhat joking point about sea waves, which are also just one more correlation with autism, but are most definately not the cause of autism).
Frankly I would be happy for them to continue to believe vinyl flooring is the problem. After all, that clearly explains why autism has existed throughout history as its common knowlege stone age mankind prefered vinyl flooring, giving rise the now near epidemic levels of autistics like me which must now be cured from the face of humanity.
"Did you even read the study to figure out if they established a causal link or are you just out of hand dismissing it?"
No, I'm not out of hand dismissing it. But while we are on that point, I don't believe the research, because I have also researched Autism. Also every few months some researchers claim they have found the reason for Autism, yet interestingly each have different explanations. The funny thing is they can't all be correct, yet interestingly they all think they have the answer.
In fact I know Autism extremely well, because I am autistic, and frankly hell will freeze over before I would ever let anyone cure me of what advantages it gives me in seeing patterns in things non-autistics often cannot see. Non-autistics of course often do not believe any form of Autism has any advantage. Often non-autistics ego's simply will not allow the thought others could see things they cannot and so they are very quick to seek ways to put down Autistics.
Also before you say it, you bet I'm militant about it. For too long I've watched autistics being put down by non-autistics for not conforming to non-autistics expected patterns of behavior and for too long many autistics who could go on to achieve good things, have instead been lead to believe they cannot achieve much in life. Many autistics can achieve great things and more would if the educational approaches were altered to suit (and respect) autistic needs and their way of thinking about the world. (Plus I'm not just talking about groups such as HFA and Aspergers etc.. I'm talking about helping lots of forms of autistics). The drug companies also see autistics as a big money making market and they are helping to promote and market the idea so many autistics need help. Far fewer than the drug companies want people to believe actually need drug company help.
I've also noticed a lot of misdiagnoses going on with autistics which is just helping to make discussions about Autism more complex. Its also often so hard to say anything about Autism without someone jumping in and talking about, the Savants who do need help. Yes they do need help, but there are more forms of autistics than just this high profile group and even Savants can be greatly helped with better suited education.
@Cube Steak: Anyway back to my point. (That is unless you want me to extend this into a 200 page essay on the subject of Autism). My point was about correlation & causation. This is a discussion forum you know. Discussions evolve as one person says something, which prompts others to reply to extend the discussion. (Its what makes this a discussion forum!). I simply said about the importance of getting everyone worldwide (on every subject) to distinguish between correlation & causation. That point still stands.
"I wish them luck in curing Autism"
That's what the drugs companies want (they smell money to be made) and its what *a few* Autistics want. Its *NOT* what all Autistics want.
"So unless the parents have a genetic predisposition to both autism and vinyl flooring"
;) Although that said, autistics do often have a very strong focus on small details (I was imagining the very detailed patterns that can be printed in vinyl flooring ;) ... (Although joking aside, this very strong focus is what gives an advantage in jobs such as science, engineering and art ... all these areas need extremely detailed and long term study).
There is a strong connection between genetics and autism. The problem with any discussion on autism is that the spectrum of autism is so wide it covers many forms of autism. So its wrong to simply generalize to say all forms of autism have a genetic basis, but most do have a strong genetic basis.
The vinyl flooring aspect I was saying more tongue in cheek.
"correlation is not causation" ... and i'm not joking, we really need to get everyone in the world finally past this stumbling block.
... because they will find (if they bother to study it) that most Autistic people will (on average) enjoy spending longer looking at the sea waves with their every changing details and changing specular highlights as they break and merge combined with the complex yet rhythmic sounds of the waves breaking on the beach etc..
Its very unfortunate that everyone in the world doesn't know the difference. It would solve so many problems in the world, if everyone was forced to learn the difference throughout school and in everyday adult life. Everyone would find life so much better as so many arguments would be avoided and things would get fixed quicker. The people behind funding education in science need to focus a vast amount of time, money and effort into promoting understanding in this simple yet vital bit of education. (I would go as far as to say we need a day per year to remind everyone, like a "world correlation is not causation day!"
"autism AND vinyl flooring."
It could also simply be for example, (on average) more autistic people prefer and enjoy the look, patterning, practical ease of use, feel and/or smell of vinyl flooring. Its like saying, which comes first, Autism or Vinyl flooring.
They could just as easily say looking at the sea causes Autism
"No - this is a derivative of the 1960s Apollo capsule. But look at the bright side - all the relevant patents have expired by now."
I like the idea of an open source Apollo Rocket. Although for home build, I'm guessing finding a big enough garden shed for it, is going to be the least of the technical problems, so to speak.
doh... "sky science" I should have said, "discovery science" ... need food, brain not working so good. :)
"In other words, no government will much give a damn if a hostile country listens in on calls made into their territory if preventing that means any decrease in their own ability to conduct surveillance. "
... while we all suffer being swept along in their paranoia and power games. We are suppose to choose and vote them in, but once they get into power, they want to keep ever tighter controls on all of us. We are suppose to be controlling them, not them controlling us. ie. "Democracy is a form of government in which power is held directly or indirectly by citizens under a free electoral system." ... So what is it, if they no longer want us to have a Democracy?
Thats not entirely true. They do care if hostile country listens in on calls, but they only care if they are going to loose out from it.
There was a documentary on sky science a few days ago about hacking. What stood out for me was a comment by some government ex-director of security saying that at least 127 countries have government sponsored groups setup to hack other countries to spy on each other. They actually aim to hack other countries to spy on each other.
So with governments so willing to play this game between each other, I guess its nothing to them, to want to also do this on everyone they have power over in their own country. The people at the top are just eternally paranoid and terrified at loosing power, so they want to always watch everyone else to prevent anyone taking any of their power from them
I hate how people FUD Google and others for making things available that others have collected for years.
... the ruling elite. The exact same group who wish to exploit others for their own gain, as they seek power. (They spend their lives learning how to gain and hold on to power over others, because if they don't then others will at their expense. That is the world view of politicians. Regardless of their party view, because the underlying psychology that is driving them is always the same, to seek power and prevent others having power over them. Its an endless game of power seeking for them).
Most privacy is simply privacy via obscurity. By centralizing and organizing the data, privacy is removed.
The question then becomes why do people want privacy. Privacy is effectively protection via obscurity.
Which moves the point on to why do people feel the need for protection from some other people. Once you answer that question, it becomes obvious why people do not want to trust corporations (like Google) to offer protection and privacy.
There are some people in this world who want to exploit others. Corporations want to exploit people for profit. Governments want to exploit people to gain and hold onto power. Its all about personal gain. They are more interested in their personal gain, than they are in caring about other people. (The world economic news in the past 6 months has been filled with examples of their selfcentred and selfserving behavior).
(If you want to change your world view, then check out this documentary about Corporations. The world isn't as Utopian as you currently wish to believe it is and you need to see through your Utopian view for your own protection from their behavior). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa3wyaEe9vE
If we lived in a utopia, then Google style massive information collection on everyone wouldn't be a danger, as no one would seek to exploit it. But we don't and never will live in a utopia. There will always be some people who will seek to exploit others for their own gain.
"it needs to be fought with good privacy laws."
So who do you think makes the laws?
"If we keep freedom in mind, the right answers will come"
Thats a wonderful Utopian view, but the world isn't like that. Some people in this world don't want others to have freedom, as they seek to be the people in power over others. Any act of seeking power over others, requires them to remove power from someone else and so restrict some freedom of the person being ruled over. So they don't have freedom in mind. They have power in mind. They are thinking along the lines of "How can I gain and hold onto power over others". That is why knowledge is power, as some people wish to use knowledge about other people, to give them power over them. There will always be some people who will seek to exploit others for their own gain regardless of if they seek to gain money or seek to gain power over others.
"My conclusion was that as it's written by the register, it's over sensationalised."
... You still can't see its irrelevant that its *also* written about in The Register. Key word, ALSO. In other words, there are OTHER sources of the SAME news.
... No, its still 2+2=4
You just don't listen do you
"I said they often don't bother checking their facts"
Then you *keep making* the same mistakes as The Register makes, as you also fail to check the facts. There are OTHER sources of the SAME news and you would see this, if you did check the facts, but you are stuck in a loop talking about The Register and so failing to see you are missing the important point.
The important point is that it was true. What The Register usually says or does is irrelevant, the news was still true.
If Hitler had said, 2+2=4 then would that be wrong because an evil tyrant had said it?
In the same way, just because a news site you hate says something, doesn't automatically make everything they say wrong.
"what, if any restrictions are there on what you do with them." plus the parent posts, "equity stake should only be considered for such a long-term commitment if" and "What would be meaningful is a 10% revenue share of the annual profits."
... If the share is more like a performance bonus, so its sharing out some of the profits of the company, then how exactly do they calculate what is profit?. (I've got this problem now. Every expense and running cost they can dream up gets taken out, before finally I get a share of the profits of my work).
Another thing to watch out for with an equity stake is the small print. Because the next logical business move from a boss to just say in passing, (as if its unimportant) something like, "well you are getting a (good) share of the profits now, so that is your wages as well". Which at first sounds fine while the company is doing ok. But if the company has a bad patch, then you find you have very little money coming in. You need to have a guaranteed at least suvival wage plus shares. Be wary of this kind of move.
Also what exactly is the shares sharing out?
Be very wary small print and how they go about calculations of profits.
"energy drink"
It'll be fun watching them trying to tell the Scottish they plan to burn their "energy drink"!
For example, William Wallace: "tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our Whiskey!"
"I merely skipped to the conclusion"
Your "conclusion" is that as it was said by The Register, then its wrong. That is a straw man argument.
Try reading your own post:
"Dude. Weak. The Register?! You may as well be referencing Fox News, I've never read anything in the register that wasn't bleeding of oversensationalisation and regularly hit spots where they obviously haven't even made a slight attempt at verifying their story elements. The Register isn't a reliable source of anything, please don't spread their panic stories, you can do so much better I promise you."
I actually don't care one way or the other, about The Register. You are totally missing the point. Its not about The Register, its about the UK Government plans, which if you watch the continuing news (from many news sources), they all show what the UK government is up to. Jacqui Smith has been bad news for a long time.