Everyone knows that criminals are deeply concerned about obeying laws and will not purchase or otherwise acquire illegal firearms if firearms are banned by law.
It's strange that a lot of people here have arguments like "well if people had guns then they'd be killing each other every day" but nobody can actually cite cases where this has happened. There's only the assumption that most people are raging psychos who'll shoot up the place at the slightest provocation without any regard for the consequences.
They aren't the exception if you want to play platformers or sports or fighting games on the PC. Any PC gamer that plays those games has a gamepad. Just like gamers who like flight sims or space sims have flight sticks of some sort. PCs are designed to be flexible and make use of a huge array of peripherals. Consoles are not. Deal with it.
Deal with what? I never claimed consoles are or should be flexible like PCs.
Sorry. But if you sent that PC to someone that has the hardware and software to diagnose the problem, and the experience and knowledge to use those tools, they could fix it in a matter of days at the most.
I'm sure everything is just that simple in your magic fairy tale land.
That doesn't mean that all PS2s are junk or too difficult to maintain.
I have never said that all PCs are this or that. Just because my PC has an impossible problem doesn't mean that they all do.
When I was little there were no "bad" games. Even the most simple game could entertain me for hours, and the quality of the game didn't seem to be much of a factor. When I got older I started complaining about game balance, mechanics, controls and the interface and level design.
I think some people just want to look like they're somehow oldskool and hardcore by complaining that today's games are shit and things were so much better twenty years ago when the games were created in a few months by one or two people.
Ancient games are, generally speaking, only valuable to those who played them when they first appeared. I sometimes play some of the games I had when I was little (C-64, NES, Amiga), but something very old like VIC-20 games don't interest me at all. They're just oudated relics to me. I can appreciate their historical value but I have no desire to play them. Unlike movies, games simply get outdated.
And I could overclock my Xbox and add a 500 Gb HDD, but that would make a PC vs. Xbox comparison quite silly since overclocked CPUs and larger HHDs are not standard for Xboxes. Bringing up PC gamepads is particularly silly when PC controls are compared with console controls. Gamepads are an exception, not the norm.
Ok, and you can't play a game on the 360 that's not available for the 360 either. What's your point?
You seem to have this attitude that PCs and consoles are somehow mutually exclusive.
Your comment about trying every possible configuration gave me a pretty good idea of how much you know. That, along with the fact that you weren't able to fix the problem. PCs aren't magical contraptions. There is a way to make them work. The millions of working ones are testament to that.
PCs are complicated, some problems are extremely difficult to properly identify and correct. Years of effort and hardware replacements have done nothing to solve this one. Maybe you'll have a different attitude when you encounter a similiar problem.
Which makes it the opposite, and therefore most definitely not the same. Games getting better does not mean that that PC is getting worse.
It's a different way of saying the exact same goddamn thing. No matter how you choose to spin it, there will eventually come a time when you just can't run the latest games.
It's just rather obvious that you understand little about PCs.
How would you know? How would you know how much or little I understand about PCs or how long I have been using them? You have no idea.
Every possible configuration? What does that even mean? It sounds like you're just randomly trying things and not getting it to work.
It means that I've tried changing every setting I can think of, tried different drivers, and tried running with a clean unaltered install of XP and a tweaked and customized install of XP. I also tried running without certain drivers and I tried altering BIOS settings. And again, not one person has been able to figure out what the problem is. It sounds like you're the one who doesn't understand anything about PCs if you think they're exceedingly simple machines that you just "set up properly" and then everything just works.
Your XBox 360 can't play Twilight Princess either. That doesn't make it less capable than the Wii.
Where did I say that the Wii is less capable because the 360 can't play TP?
The PC doesn't degrade at all. The games simply get better. The graphics you see do not get worse.
It's the same thing in reverse.
Let me know if you manage to get your XBox to play XBox 360 games.
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So yeah, if you can't make it work, and you don't know anyone else that can, then you should probably stick with a console. But don't go claiming that PCs are too hard just because you couldn't keep one running properly.
It has nothing to do with me. The problem is not in the hardware, since everything has been changed at least once. If the problem is in the software, it probably can't be fixed since every possible configuration has been attempted and nobody has the faintest idea what the problem is. Don't go claiming that the user is stupid just because the PC has a problem.
It had a very good point actually, which is that the price difference isn't all that much.
I forgot to mention one thing about the fact that consoles and PCs aren't mutually exclusive: if I want to play console games, a PC is worthless, and vice versa. One can't replace the other. I can put 5000 euros into a computer and it still won't play Twilight Princess.
That's the dumbest argument I've heard yet. PC capabilities don't "degrade" over time. The games and graphics get better over time, and require better hardware to run at the highest levels.
Which is in practise the same thing I just said: your PC "degrades" and becomes gradually less and less able to run the newest games, and eventually it won't run them at all. It's not a dumb argument, it's an irrefutable fact. If it weren't, my X800 would run Crysis.
If I want the nicer graphics, I can upgrade my vid card to a newer one. Consoles don't have that option.
Consoles don't need that option, and the standard unchanging hardware is one of their benefits.
That's the only decent argument about PCs. They do require more knowledge to use properly. If you know what you're doing, you don't have technical problems and performance issues. But it's really not all that difficult.
If only it were that simple. The performance issue with my computer has persisted through every hardware revision and nobody has any idea what's causing it, and regardless of what drivers or system settings I use nothing ever changes. As far as I can tell it's not a hardware or a software issue, so it must be magic. Shit like that is why I find consoles more enjoyable to use.
Yeah, we've seen what happens to FPS games on consoles. Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3 are good examples. They take what was a great game, and shrink the level sizes down to about 1/8 of what they used to be, design an interface that is a lot more cumbersome, just because they have to work within the confines of the controller, and then they also have to do things like auto-aiming and crappy enemy AI to make up for the lack of precision in the controls.
But let's just forget about games like GRAW, R6v, GoW, RE4, MP and so forth... they don't fit the dogma that consoles == shit, so it's best not to mention them.
Not really. PCs can do anything that the consoles can do. I've played platformers and sports games on my PC.
And I've played FPS games on consoles. So?
Psychonauts played just fine on the PC with a gamepad.
A gamepad does not count, and since the only practical difference between the PC and the Xbox (in terms of playing games) is the controller, saying that Psychonauts controls fine on the PC with a gamepad does little to bolster your argument againts consoles.
The reverse is not true, however. Consoles have limitations that make them unsuitable for certain types of games.
Same goes for the PC. I would not want to play Tekken or Zelda on my PC.
That's just because the consoles (and console developers) have so many shortcomings to make up for.
Good thing the PC is absolutely flawless, and only the finest and greatest games are produced for it.
console gamers are always comparing the cost of console gaming versus PC gaming, while completely forgetting to include things like the TV that they dropped 2 grand on, or their surround system, etc.
360 + HDTV = 1000-1200 euros, which is still far cheaper than buying a top-of-the-line gaming PC, and both purchases have a considerably longer lifespan too. While your PC "degrades" over time (you have to compromise on graphics quality over time until your system just can't run anything anymore), a console stays the same for the duration of its lifespan.
Yeah, you can use those for other things as well, but I can use my PC for a LOT of other things as well.
This is a completely pointless argument. I'm buying a console for gaming. What does it matter that I can watch porn on my PC and troll Slashdot? What's the connection? PCs and consoles aren't mutually exclusive.
No, I don't. I haven't seen one decent RTS, RPG or FPS on the consoles yet that can touch any of the major PC games in those categories.
Your comparison is obviously biased since you're only accounting for the genres that are strongest on the PC and discounting everything else in existence. However, the FPS/third person genre has been done succesfully on consoles, and in cases like GRAW, R6V and SCDA the X360 versions have reportedly been much better than their PC counterparts. Metroid Prime isn't even available for the PC, and many games don't show up on the PC until years later.
I'm shifting away from PC gaming for the time being because it's much too expensive and the endless technical problems and performance issues are starting to get to me. I don't get any nerd satisfaction from spending years wondering why I often get 10-20 FPS in CS:S with the absolute minimum graphics even though I've replaced every component at least once.
On the other hand, a console simply can not produce a decent RTS, FPS or CRPG.
The psychology of the crazed, obsessive fanboy never ceases to fascinate me. Is your world of PC supremacy so fragile that it needs to be propped up with outright lies and fabrications?
I am playing the game as I was taught to play. You don't seem to understand the rules of our game. It's better that you don't play it.
No, it's better if griefing assholes like you don't play it. I play under the same rules as everyone else, doesn't mean that I'm somehow forced to gank lowbies.
Some people can do it, you can't. If it makes you feel better to think that it's not a matter of skill, go ahead and think that.
WoW is not an FPS. There are limits to what skill can do againts levels.
Chaos Engine and Superfrog are probably my favorite Amiga games. I've completed CE with all six characters, and done about three to four miscellaneous playthroughs. Superfrog is still my favorite platform game.
On a somewhat related note, when I noticed this post I was listening to music from the old Amiga demo 'Sequential' by Andromeda. I can't say I've seen too many demos in my lifetime, but Sequential is my favorite by far. The modern PC demos I've seen have been underwhelming and not very interesting.
Frankly, I found NWN2 to be very mediocre, and I doubt that an expansion can elevate it above that. The game is fundamentally flawed. The first game wasn't very good either, unless you were into modding or multiplayer.
Maybe som Palestinian group can make a similar map over, what Israel did to many Palestinian villages from 1947 until today. That would start up a *real* debate.
There can be no real debate about the subject. There is only the Concensus, and anyone outside the Consensus is a troll.
Slashdot Mirror
Jesus. You're like a fucking brick wall.
Oh, I get it. The only reason why Iraq is such a mess is because people have guns. Yeah, that must be it.
It will be a cold day in hell before I'll see one rational or intelligent argument from the anti-gun crowd.
Everyone knows that criminals are deeply concerned about obeying laws and will not purchase or otherwise acquire illegal firearms if firearms are banned by law.
It's strange that a lot of people here have arguments like "well if people had guns then they'd be killing each other every day" but nobody can actually cite cases where this has happened. There's only the assumption that most people are raging psychos who'll shoot up the place at the slightest provocation without any regard for the consequences.
Wait a minute... a person carrying a concealed weapon is told to find cover and do nothing, or flee? What? That doesn't make any sense.
And you're being an arrogant, condescending troll who needs to stop worshipping PCs as if they were Gods.
Deal with what? I never claimed consoles are or should be flexible like PCs.
I'm sure everything is just that simple in your magic fairy tale land.
I have never said that all PCs are this or that. Just because my PC has an impossible problem doesn't mean that they all do.
When I was little there were no "bad" games. Even the most simple game could entertain me for hours, and the quality of the game didn't seem to be much of a factor. When I got older I started complaining about game balance, mechanics, controls and the interface and level design.
I think some people just want to look like they're somehow oldskool and hardcore by complaining that today's games are shit and things were so much better twenty years ago when the games were created in a few months by one or two people.
Ancient games are, generally speaking, only valuable to those who played them when they first appeared. I sometimes play some of the games I had when I was little (C-64, NES, Amiga), but something very old like VIC-20 games don't interest me at all. They're just oudated relics to me. I can appreciate their historical value but I have no desire to play them. Unlike movies, games simply get outdated.
You seem to have this attitude that PCs and consoles are somehow mutually exclusive.
PCs are complicated, some problems are extremely difficult to properly identify and correct. Years of effort and hardware replacements have done nothing to solve this one. Maybe you'll have a different attitude when you encounter a similiar problem.
Yeah, except when I want to play a game that's not available for the PC.
It's a different way of saying the exact same goddamn thing. No matter how you choose to spin it, there will eventually come a time when you just can't run the latest games.
How would you know? How would you know how much or little I understand about PCs or how long I have been using them? You have no idea.
It means that I've tried changing every setting I can think of, tried different drivers, and tried running with a clean unaltered install of XP and a tweaked and customized install of XP. I also tried running without certain drivers and I tried altering BIOS settings. And again, not one person has been able to figure out what the problem is. It sounds like you're the one who doesn't understand anything about PCs if you think they're exceedingly simple machines that you just "set up properly" and then everything just works.
Where did I say that the Wii is less capable because the 360 can't play TP?
It's the same thing in reverse.
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It has nothing to do with me. The problem is not in the hardware, since everything has been changed at least once. If the problem is in the software, it probably can't be fixed since every possible configuration has been attempted and nobody has the faintest idea what the problem is. Don't go claiming that the user is stupid just because the PC has a problem.
I forgot to mention one thing about the fact that consoles and PCs aren't mutually exclusive: if I want to play console games, a PC is worthless, and vice versa. One can't replace the other. I can put 5000 euros into a computer and it still won't play Twilight Princess.
Which is in practise the same thing I just said: your PC "degrades" and becomes gradually less and less able to run the newest games, and eventually it won't run them at all. It's not a dumb argument, it's an irrefutable fact. If it weren't, my X800 would run Crysis.
Consoles don't need that option, and the standard unchanging hardware is one of their benefits.
If only it were that simple. The performance issue with my computer has persisted through every hardware revision and nobody has any idea what's causing it, and regardless of what drivers or system settings I use nothing ever changes. As far as I can tell it's not a hardware or a software issue, so it must be magic. Shit like that is why I find consoles more enjoyable to use.
But let's just forget about games like GRAW, R6v, GoW, RE4, MP and so forth... they don't fit the dogma that consoles == shit, so it's best not to mention them.
And I've played FPS games on consoles. So?
A gamepad does not count, and since the only practical difference between the PC and the Xbox (in terms of playing games) is the controller, saying that Psychonauts controls fine on the PC with a gamepad does little to bolster your argument againts consoles.
Same goes for the PC. I would not want to play Tekken or Zelda on my PC.
Good thing the PC is absolutely flawless, and only the finest and greatest games are produced for it.
360 + HDTV = 1000-1200 euros, which is still far cheaper than buying a top-of-the-line gaming PC, and both purchases have a considerably longer lifespan too. While your PC "degrades" over time (you have to compromise on graphics quality over time until your system just can't run anything anymore), a console stays the same for the duration of its lifespan.
This is a completely pointless argument. I'm buying a console for gaming. What does it matter that I can watch porn on my PC and troll Slashdot? What's the connection? PCs and consoles aren't mutually exclusive.
Your comparison is obviously biased since you're only accounting for the genres that are strongest on the PC and discounting everything else in existence. However, the FPS/third person genre has been done succesfully on consoles, and in cases like GRAW, R6V and SCDA the X360 versions have reportedly been much better than their PC counterparts. Metroid Prime isn't even available for the PC, and many games don't show up on the PC until years later.
I'm shifting away from PC gaming for the time being because it's much too expensive and the endless technical problems and performance issues are starting to get to me. I don't get any nerd satisfaction from spending years wondering why I often get 10-20 FPS in CS:S with the absolute minimum graphics even though I've replaced every component at least once.
It's not a hardware issue. If Doom 3 can be controlled with acceptable comfort on the Xbox, so can RTS games.
They have, and there are genres that have been in limited supply on the PC because consoles are just better at them.
The psychology of the crazed, obsessive fanboy never ceases to fascinate me. Is your world of PC supremacy so fragile that it needs to be propped up with outright lies and fabrications?
I'm going to make the radical decision of having no opinion about the matter until we see screenshots and get more details about the game.
No, it's better if griefing assholes like you don't play it. I play under the same rules as everyone else, doesn't mean that I'm somehow forced to gank lowbies.
WoW is not an FPS. There are limits to what skill can do againts levels.
Chaos Engine and Superfrog are probably my favorite Amiga games. I've completed CE with all six characters, and done about three to four miscellaneous playthroughs. Superfrog is still my favorite platform game.
On a somewhat related note, when I noticed this post I was listening to music from the old Amiga demo 'Sequential' by Andromeda. I can't say I've seen too many demos in my lifetime, but Sequential is my favorite by far. The modern PC demos I've seen have been underwhelming and not very interesting.
Frankly, I found NWN2 to be very mediocre, and I doubt that an expansion can elevate it above that. The game is fundamentally flawed. The first game wasn't very good either, unless you were into modding or multiplayer.
There can be no real debate about the subject. There is only the Concensus, and anyone outside the Consensus is a troll.
I remember reading that patents are only granted to perpetual motion devices if there's a working prototype or something like that.