Do you think that they would have made it big if they hadn't used web 2.0 concepts?
Well, tbh i think that post 1998 success on the internet is similar to success (!) in lottery. its little different from fate.
well, ajax is in fact a goodly bit about reducing server side loads. You, instead of allowing repeated requests from a web interface, just bundle the whole data and send it to the client, but the data wont get displayed until the visitor does something to display it. hence, the neatness of the interface functioning like a normal site, almost no latency for loading of many stuff (since most have been loaded), also with the increased use of graphical elements more easy on the eye.
apart from that you are mostly right in your other assessments about ajax.
however theres the problem of client side being something that is not easily controllable, predictable and even secure.
First, if you relegate things more and more to client side, you open more and more avenues for exploitation. Things that are used for 2.0 are already present in current oses and browsers, true, however, the visitors are not used to using them regularly. When they do, it will open up a whole venue of end-user pc hacks, exploits, scams, trojaning, virusing - you name it - since more client side means more processing is done on a client pc. This is mainly about ajax though.
second problem is that, security/antivirus programs dont like ajax elements. in cases, they try to disable most of their features. they are right in that too, as javascript and activex are stuff that you can exploit to a good extent to do malicious things. this being as such, using ajax in a website might lower the users of an app (site) due to usability issues.
third thing about ajax is, the unpredictability. you cant know what are installed on client side. like antivir progs blocking some activex or javascript (or all) operations, there might be countless plug ins, personal assistants, this or that installed in a computer. heck, it is often reported that heavily javascript reliant sites can lock up a pc due to the cpu time demanded for their operations, (if you are doing multiple tasks at the same time in a high-end cpu, and more likely with less stuff running in low ends) which would be another factor to lose visitors. but, the risk of client side not correctly rendering your page is higher with client side processing, and this is not something that any business can risk. there are businesses that receive 100 visitors monthly, and do $10.000 worth of business with 1-2 of them for example.
for ruby & the rails, well, there are stuff that you can do on it very fast and satisfactorily (like doing forums, blogs cmses and such), but then again, they are made for making these easily. You cant go flexible and meet up a scottish kilt producer's mind-bending work order system implementations on those. so, when it goes pro, you have to dive deep into php again. however despite ruby and ruby on rails, still much of the forum, blog, cms stuff are done in their own platforms - oscommerce is a branch of programming in itself with its countless variants, nuke, postnuke are like their own framework, phpbb modifications are already countless and became an expertise in itself.
as for costs, yes ajax adds quite much to the costs. you see, ajax is like something that is more 'design'ish, kinda, you cant go brutally simple when doing ajax stuff. and whereas visitors (and hence the client) can accept a website operating in the usual manner we are all accustomed to since 1995, when you start to put nifty changing stuff and widgets and rolling stuff into it, you go into a whole new level of requests for design. they want this to be done in another way and that function somehow different than it is now, despite the function being still the same server-side.
and theres the fact that, however ajax you utilize, you still have to use php and mysql (insert combo here) for server side stuff for proce
if they sold the songs in mp3, high quality format, and guaranteed that they will be available forever, i would not even bother saving zillions of mp3 in my hard disks and trying to transport them to new pcs, friends', relatives', acquintances' computers, worry about the loss of mp3s in the event of a hd format is needed (windows reinstall etc), and so on, and instead just DELETE them whenever im in distress and just get what i want from the OFFICIAL site for 1 cents per song again.
same goes for movies. WHY the hell try to maintain them in cds, dvds or etc when you can just download them in high quality format from its ORIGINAL seller ? JUST sell it for something reasonable, NEGLIGIBLE - for maybe, say, $5 ? It is not even the price of a regular hamburger dammit ? WHENEVER i want to watch a movie, i would just download it, watch, and delete without any worries. No disk space use, no corruption, hell and even no worries that children might find and watch some no-no movies for their age...
Games. god. If games were sold for $5 or so a piece, why not buy MANY games ? huh ? Just for the sake of trying, there is no barrier to buying them $5 per piece. Even the thought that, 'i might want to play something like this maybe sometime' would without any worries of expensiveness or anything would let anyone buy the games they would NOT normally buy then. Heck, even for collections maybe.
Actually, the execs, policy makers and old coots in the helm of media companies, you are witless idiots.
Have you gone such a road, internet would be busy with zillions of terabytes downloaded everyday from your products and you would be busy trying to get more accountants to do the accounting instead of lawyers for trying to fight against 'the people'.
yea, and as i said in other topics before, all of these are high-volume, big boy sites. No sites under those need to use web 2.0 elements to reduce the server side load by dumping it to client side. hence noone is asking them too from developers. it pumps up devel costs very high
they know that the best they can do is to go for a seemingly 'democracy'. and the only way to maintain it is to maintain the illusion. media creates any illusion.
they dont want webcasters, citizen journalists to broadcast the shit politicans and their big-money backers pull around. so that it can be good old 1950s again
I never paid attention, but while reading this article in an easy fashion, it suddenly struck me that these are all 'pretty' names for some public enemy measures in order to protect the wealthy elite groups whereas forcing their monopoly on art/creativity market.
are we, people, stupid enough not to realize that is the case, or what ?
that are grown in developed countries and being left to rot in depots in order not to make the wheat prices fall 'too low' ?
Why the effort to do something else rather than ship these to the places in need ? Many of those nations are not integrated with world trade association anyways ?
and no way. I wouldnt see a single byte traveling on the internet be subject to a governing body where these opressive, mafia (in case of russia) and medieval (you know which) countries have a say in. Internet thrived with what was governing it up to date, and from now on i would like to see it thrive - so let it be as it is now.
yea. good legislation. good legislation that removes all barriers from whatever cable/telecom companies might want to do with whatever they have. Good for us - you wish.
u.s. software houses also are taking contracts from all over the world - there is a give and take situation.
also, for internet, for programming, you can never say that 'we lose national jobs'
Internet is a new nation, and you are the founding members of it.
ANY u.s. programmer can find phletora of contracts from all over the world if s/he puts a little back into it - even less work than they would do in a company who would suck their soul with little benefits.
work at home in your basement. work MORE, but in an easier environment with your family.
being in the u.s., you will always have a better degree of confident put in you by the offshore contractors, who know that violating a contract in u.s. would be punished much worse by u.s. laws than indian laws do for indians.
use this to your advantage.
I live in turkey, i bear the official nationality of turkish.
However, in fact, "im from the internet", as they say in the Simpsons.
With my 'developing country citizen' status, i can easily work for $15 an hour from where i sit. If i wish, i can rise this hourly rate higher and get a narrower clientele, but, you have to give when you take.
any of you can do anything right now. You all are internet citizens. live in it.
I bought a classic music set (2 sets, 6 cds per set, best classics vol 1 and 2, spectacular) and when my 6 cd changer part of the music set that dates 1991 have (understandably) broken down from continuous playing and changing, i was able to rip them to mp3s without any problems, and with quality. now i connected a stereo line out cable to the music set's amp, and it is playing via winamp perfectly.
for ajax to be harmful - what you are doing with ajax is delegating the running of some operations to the client side - you may not use it for harmful purposes maybe, but if ajax gets widespread use and acceptance, same people who used anything invented before to evil purposes will.
- You become a 'mogul' in a VIRTUAL GAME, you make heaploads of money from it, then you file copyright. Well well, WHERE is the content you are 'creating' residing in ? In some virtual world which SOME OTHERS HAVE CREATED.
Who has the greater right on virtual stuff there now ? Definitely not you. The company has - the fact that they have had signed a contract with you to the effect that you can hold the rights there does not make what you create here rightfully yours.
Its just like living in an omnipotent creator's universe as its creation, and then 'creating' something and then suing the source creator over it.
Im a person of no religion other than my own spirit, but i have this to say to you :
Because it seems apparently this is what they want - some bunch to be untouchable, uncritiseable, unquestionable and above the public.
Banning of all social activities in the world would also ensure that no teacher gets mocked in a pijama party in a kid's house or no teenagers telling jokes about teachers in a mass transit vehicle.
Im not gonna use elaborate words or kind arguments to counter this shit.
A bunch of sore ass losers who are unable to even perceive the importance of the internet, leave aside teaching, barks for censorship for the greatest technological revolution in the world that brought even the enemy nations' children growing up together.
Stupid morons. What do you teach is of no importance compared to the social cohesion internet creates ALL over the world.
Chinese and American kids, who were being raised to hate each other just 50 years ago are now playing in the same game servers, making friends of each other, using the SAME slang.
This is something your sore asses would never achieve in 500 years of professional practice.
I for one have this to say ; if britain has SUCH STUPID teachers, she better abolish the WHOLE education system and start building it over again - because apparently you are not educating teachers to educate children, you are educating enemies of public and freedom. Talk about magna carta....
Slashdot Mirror
Do you think that they would have made it big if they hadn't used web 2.0 concepts?
Well, tbh i think that post 1998 success on the internet is similar to success (!) in lottery. its little different from fate.
well, ajax is in fact a goodly bit about reducing server side loads. You, instead of allowing repeated requests from a web interface, just bundle the whole data and send it to the client, but the data wont get displayed until the visitor does something to display it. hence, the neatness of the interface functioning like a normal site, almost no latency for loading of many stuff (since most have been loaded), also with the increased use of graphical elements more easy on the eye.
apart from that you are mostly right in your other assessments about ajax.
however theres the problem of client side being something that is not easily controllable, predictable and even secure.
First, if you relegate things more and more to client side, you open more and more avenues for exploitation. Things that are used for 2.0 are already present in current oses and browsers, true, however, the visitors are not used to using them regularly. When they do, it will open up a whole venue of end-user pc hacks, exploits, scams, trojaning, virusing - you name it - since more client side means more processing is done on a client pc. This is mainly about ajax though.
second problem is that, security/antivirus programs dont like ajax elements. in cases, they try to disable most of their features. they are right in that too, as javascript and activex are stuff that you can exploit to a good extent to do malicious things. this being as such, using ajax in a website might lower the users of an app (site) due to usability issues.
third thing about ajax is, the unpredictability. you cant know what are installed on client side. like antivir progs blocking some activex or javascript (or all) operations, there might be countless plug ins, personal assistants, this or that installed in a computer. heck, it is often reported that heavily javascript reliant sites can lock up a pc due to the cpu time demanded for their operations, (if you are doing multiple tasks at the same time in a high-end cpu, and more likely with less stuff running in low ends) which would be another factor to lose visitors. but, the risk of client side not correctly rendering your page is higher with client side processing, and this is not something that any business can risk. there are businesses that receive 100 visitors monthly, and do $10.000 worth of business with 1-2 of them for example.
for ruby & the rails, well, there are stuff that you can do on it very fast and satisfactorily (like doing forums, blogs cmses and such), but then again, they are made for making these easily. You cant go flexible and meet up a scottish kilt producer's mind-bending work order system implementations on those. so, when it goes pro, you have to dive deep into php again. however despite ruby and ruby on rails, still much of the forum, blog, cms stuff are done in their own platforms - oscommerce is a branch of programming in itself with its countless variants, nuke, postnuke are like their own framework, phpbb modifications are already countless and became an expertise in itself.
as for costs, yes ajax adds quite much to the costs. you see, ajax is like something that is more 'design'ish, kinda, you cant go brutally simple when doing ajax stuff. and whereas visitors (and hence the client) can accept a website operating in the usual manner we are all accustomed to since 1995, when you start to put nifty changing stuff and widgets and rolling stuff into it, you go into a whole new level of requests for design. they want this to be done in another way and that function somehow different than it is now, despite the function being still the same server-side.
and theres the fact that, however ajax you utilize, you still have to use php and mysql (insert combo here) for server side stuff for proce
let me tell you one thing,
...
if they sold the songs in mp3, high quality format, and guaranteed that they will be available forever, i would not even bother saving zillions of mp3 in my hard disks and trying to transport them to new pcs, friends', relatives', acquintances' computers, worry about the loss of mp3s in the event of a hd format is needed (windows reinstall etc), and so on, and instead just DELETE them whenever im in distress and just get what i want from the OFFICIAL site for 1 cents per song again.
same goes for movies. WHY the hell try to maintain them in cds, dvds or etc when you can just download them in high quality format from its ORIGINAL seller ? JUST sell it for something reasonable, NEGLIGIBLE - for maybe, say, $5 ? It is not even the price of a regular hamburger dammit ? WHENEVER i want to watch a movie, i would just download it, watch, and delete without any worries. No disk space use, no corruption, hell and even no worries that children might find and watch some no-no movies for their age
Games. god. If games were sold for $5 or so a piece, why not buy MANY games ? huh ? Just for the sake of trying, there is no barrier to buying them $5 per piece. Even the thought that, 'i might want to play something like this maybe sometime' would without any worries of expensiveness or anything would let anyone buy the games they would NOT normally buy then. Heck, even for collections maybe.
Actually, the execs, policy makers and old coots in the helm of media companies, you are witless idiots.
Have you gone such a road, internet would be busy with zillions of terabytes downloaded everyday from your products and you would be busy trying to get more accountants to do the accounting instead of lawyers for trying to fight against 'the people'.
is there ANY question as to the opposite could have happened ?
Internet IS 'the people'. Internet is "us". "WE" are internet.
Tell me JUST one thing that have fought against the power of "the people" and succeeded ?
yea, and as i said in other topics before, all of these are high-volume, big boy sites. No sites under those need to use web 2.0 elements to reduce the server side load by dumping it to client side. hence noone is asking them too from developers. it pumps up devel costs very high
its 'mashups' have come up.
against at&t and other shits' attempts to monopolize and rule internet by the fiber.
is enough.
enough to build up trust, intimacy, compatibility, cohesion and even share some secrets.
few people are able to get a major promotion before 10 years anways.
actually they cant do 1984. not after 1789.
they know that the best they can do is to go for a seemingly 'democracy'. and the only way to maintain it is to maintain the illusion. media creates any illusion.
blogs are just text and documents. visual proof is more devastating. if a blog does much video publishing, it will fall in the same category still.
they dont want webcasters, citizen journalists to broadcast the shit politicans and their big-money backers pull around. so that it can be good old 1950s again
I never paid attention, but while reading this article in an easy fashion, it suddenly struck me that these are all 'pretty' names for some public enemy measures in order to protect the wealthy elite groups whereas forcing their monopoly on art/creativity market.
are we, people, stupid enough not to realize that is the case, or what ?
that are grown in developed countries and being left to rot in depots in order not to make the wheat prices fall 'too low' ?
Why the effort to do something else rather than ship these to the places in need ? Many of those nations are not integrated with world trade association anyways ?
and no way. I wouldnt see a single byte traveling on the internet be subject to a governing body where these opressive, mafia (in case of russia) and medieval (you know which) countries have a say in. Internet thrived with what was governing it up to date, and from now on i would like to see it thrive - so let it be as it is now.
I, for one, welcome our new pirate saviors.
yea. good legislation. good legislation that removes all barriers from whatever cable/telecom companies might want to do with whatever they have. Good for us - you wish.
u.s. software houses also are taking contracts from all over the world - there is a give and take situation.
also, for internet, for programming, you can never say that 'we lose national jobs'
Internet is a new nation, and you are the founding members of it.
ANY u.s. programmer can find phletora of contracts from all over the world if s/he puts a little back into it - even less work than they would do in a company who would suck their soul with little benefits.
work at home in your basement. work MORE, but in an easier environment with your family.
being in the u.s., you will always have a better degree of confident put in you by the offshore contractors, who know that violating a contract in u.s. would be punished much worse by u.s. laws than indian laws do for indians.
use this to your advantage.
I live in turkey, i bear the official nationality of turkish.
However, in fact, "im from the internet", as they say in the Simpsons.
With my 'developing country citizen' status, i can easily work for $15 an hour from where i sit. If i wish, i can rise this hourly rate higher and get a narrower clientele, but, you have to give when you take.
any of you can do anything right now. You all are internet citizens. live in it.
I bought a classic music set (2 sets, 6 cds per set, best classics vol 1 and 2, spectacular) and when my 6 cd changer part of the music set that dates 1991 have (understandably) broken down from continuous playing and changing, i was able to rip them to mp3s without any problems, and with quality. now i connected a stereo line out cable to the music set's amp, and it is playing via winamp perfectly.
this is the way to make a happy customer.
we will just not buy anything that even slightly interferes with gaming. Shove your 'copy' protection and 'intellectual property' up your arses.
and block them in the intranet and cash them.
One skulkin greedy bitch cut a whole nation's access to the most free source of videos.
Laws need to be revised in terms of 'privacy'.
for ajax to be harmful - what you are doing with ajax is delegating the running of some operations to the client side - you may not use it for harmful purposes maybe, but if ajax gets widespread use and acceptance, same people who used anything invented before to evil purposes will.
- You become a 'mogul' in a VIRTUAL GAME, you make heaploads of money from it, then you file copyright. Well well, WHERE is the content you are 'creating' residing in ? In some virtual world which SOME OTHERS HAVE CREATED.
Who has the greater right on virtual stuff there now ? Definitely not you. The company has - the fact that they have had signed a contract with you to the effect that you can hold the rights there does not make what you create here rightfully yours.
Its just like living in an omnipotent creator's universe as its creation, and then 'creating' something and then suing the source creator over it.
Im a person of no religion other than my own spirit, but i have this to say to you :
Fuckin greedy bitch !
After all, web 2.0 is mostly that - a BUZZ.
and bestow nobility on the teacher profession ?
Because it seems apparently this is what they want - some bunch to be untouchable, uncritiseable, unquestionable and above the public.
Banning of all social activities in the world would also ensure that no teacher gets mocked in a pijama party in a kid's house or no teenagers telling jokes about teachers in a mass transit vehicle.
what they did, said or responded to those sore-ass, INCAPABLE crap posing as teachers.
Do not fail us British slashdotters - raise hell all over britain !
Im not gonna use elaborate words or kind arguments to counter this shit.
....
A bunch of sore ass losers who are unable to even perceive the importance of the internet, leave aside teaching, barks for censorship for the greatest technological revolution in the world that brought even the enemy nations' children growing up together.
Stupid morons. What do you teach is of no importance compared to the social cohesion internet creates ALL over the world.
Chinese and American kids, who were being raised to hate each other just 50 years ago are now playing in the same game servers, making friends of each other, using the SAME slang.
This is something your sore asses would never achieve in 500 years of professional practice.
I for one have this to say ; if britain has SUCH STUPID teachers, she better abolish the WHOLE education system and start building it over again - because apparently you are not educating teachers to educate children, you are educating enemies of public and freedom. Talk about magna carta