I know, different countries and all that, but increasingly country divisions among laws are starting to blur based on world wide news like this.
Notice that this isn't even either child-pr0n or terrorism directly, it's "just mean". That's dangerous because at least the other slippery excuses get rolled up under safety. This one is "you're being mean so let's wreck your ability to get a job".
Once you allow "tasteless joke" as a valid reason to get arrested it gets really chilly, really quick. Getting ahead of the Citation Needed crowd (also a chilling factor!) there are 1,000 tasteless jokes per year in standup comedy in the UK and another 2,000 in the US. (We have more of everything, boring math and understated.) So suddenly because it's on Facebook it becomes a crime?!
That's really bad news. It's like the Powers That Be really don't want Social Media anymore.
It started with the old hourly charges from the old services like CompuServe and AOL, then "because of consumer demand" they went to Unlimited.
Notice this article talks about the "entertainment" side. Look at the Cloud side.
1. "Everyone use your software from the Cloud! It's nice and fluffy!" 2. "Let's cap bandwidth so that when you pull your data every 7 seconds you burn 4 megs, and then you will hit your cap and we can charge the fees."
If I was better at graphic design, I've wanted to make "chart news" with trends like these pointing in opposite directions in 2010 that becomes 2012's news when they collide.
However Startpage has been yelling at me "you have done a large amount of searches, we are going to block you to prove you're not a bot." (like 10 a day, mostly going to X sites)
Tip, if Slashdot is going to improve, the posters need to do a little more work.
"Indiana poet James Whitcomb Riley (1849â"1916) may have coined the phrase when he wrote "when I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."[1][2]"
Naw, I think it's about the indirect "Facebook Placement" that's starting to creep in that is bugging people. Let's try a few titles:
Why Are We So Rude Online? - and of all of "Online", we get: "For example, a study found that browsing Facebook tends to lower people's self control."
What Happened To Diaspora, the Facebook Killer? It's Complicated
How Noah Kagan Got Fired From Facebook and Lost $100 Million
WTFM: Write the Freaking Manual - and of all "tech giants" we get "Google (Go), Twitter (Bootstrap), Facebook (iOS 6 Facebook Integration), Microsoft (Windows Store apps), and Apple (Create Apps for IOS 6)".
The Day Leo Traynor Confronted His Troll - "Dublin-based writer Leo Traynor has written a piece about confronting the troll who...hacked his Facebook...
Teachers Write an Open Textbook In a Weekend Hackathon - The progress can be followed by visiting the repository at GitHub or the project Facebook page."
Illinois Prof Calls for a Federal Law To Safeguard Digital Afterlives - and of all digital afterlives we get: "Mazzone argues that Facebook and other online services".
California Employers Can't Ask For Your Facebook Password - excuse me, "J053 sends word that California has passed legislation making it illegal for both colleges and employers to request social media account access from students, employees, and prospective hires. " But of all Social Media, the Title went for "Facebook".
Facebook Denies Leak of Users' Private Messages
Man Arrested In Greece For "Blasphemous" Facebook Page
New York Times Takes Aim At Data Center - Oh look, it's tagged "Facebook"
How Internet Data Centers Waste Power - This is the price being paid to ensure everyone has instant access to every email they've ever received, or for their instant Facebook status update. Data Center providers are finding that they can't rack servers fast enough to provide for users' needs: A few companies say they are using extensively re-engineered software and cooling systems to decrease wasted power. Among them are Facebook and Google, which also have redesigned their hardware. Still, according to recent disclosures, Google's data centers consume nearly 300 million watts and Facebook's about 60 million watts. (So of only two data centers, they went with Facebook and Google.)
Facebook Wants You To Snitch On Friends Not Using Their Real Name
Facebook Disables Face Recognition In EU
Salesforce CEO Benioff: Future Software Will Look Like Facebook
Can a Court Order You To Delete a Facebook Account?
Patent Troll Goes After Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Yahoo, IBM, Others
----
So will that do for two weeks worth? Facebook (and Google and Apple) are where they are because they're playing "Product Placement News". Get big enough so that bunches of news stories merit your "Brand Name" being inserted as a news item.
"There are a lot of people arguing that this whole story is a fable; the IT guy the author presents to defend his account is a feckless bullshitter. Basically it's a case of two guys who don't know that they don't know the technical difficulties in what they claim to have done. The whole thing is embarrassing and annoying."
Are we getting... wait for it... trolled? (Can I start a meme? Rick-Trolled?)
What's really out of whack is the sequence of events. So the cops can't find this guy, they're wringing their hands in helplessness. Along comes "An IT Genius" that traces the house by IP... and the cops couldn't call any of their guys on the entire force to do that? However if the kid torrented a Song they would have found him pronto.
Oh my goodness, that comment and the related article are among the most vicious things I've ever seen.
Both of you even admit you're begging for superhuman miracles at the beginning. "Look how fragile our business is!"
But then when it begins to "require new staff", and all the meetings set in, "K Thx Bye" is the recommended course? If he doesn't have Priority Rights to stock and such, then it sounds like he's getting screwed. Why should he ever have bothered to start the business at all if he had foreseen this endgame? It's just fancily worded treachery. Yuck.
"Because for some reason antiquated information services are superior to modern ones, in the same way that by having automobiles we're losing on the bond with nature we used to enjoy when all we had was a horse, a buggy, and stunning view of the horses ass".
You basically nailed it. It's a case of 10 steps forward with smartphones and then just take 2 steps back if you inadvertently end up with too many Favorite Sites to watch, so fine, cull them a little.
These "Back in the Good Ol' Days" articles are pretty bogus. How many of us remember having to kill 3 hours playing Kick the Can maybe before our parents were free to take us to the fair or something. Or later, the 2 hour phone convos consisting of "I'm bored." "Yeah, me too. Nothing to do on a Wednesday night."
As for those people who are apparently the saving grace of conversation, anyone remember getting into a conversation like "Ford Bronco has more horsepower." "No, Chevy all the way man, Fords are for wimps." And there was no way to settle it. Now you just go to the much maligned Wikipedia, pick your models, and the winner of the argument emerges in about twenty minutes.
I meant that Today's Scary Leader is/will soon be sitting on a button that could blow up the world. It's not about marching troops per se anymore, it's all down to convincing that guy not to push the button.
So a court wouldn't (supposedly) care about a song being transmitted just because it was dumped in the User Agent Field? Just change the file type at the end to.mp3? Oh, it's a Song, so it matters then, right? Sure, gimme an hour, I'll make it a Song.
This is part of my point that we're not treating all copyrighted works with the same zeal. Movies, followed by Songs, are driving Copyright. But only for Rich organizations, right? Meanwhile the rest of creative works get to suffer? I purposely posted a poem, and an essay, and computer code, and code words, and a notice. That surely makes it a creative work. Just because I stuck it in a place where "automated systems are used to copying stuff" doesn't make it okay to copy.
Mr. H. is passe. That's not precisely how the next threat will manifest. The world is too networked for that. I don't have time to read my 1,000 pages for Citations Needed, but basically Mr. H. got as far as he did because of the specific places he was in geography-time.
Now, we might see another Charismatic Dangerous Leader, yes. But you can't go just marching along, not today. So the next Bad Guy will be more of a Loose Cannon that needs to be talked down Game Theory style, with VERY clever diplomacy.
I'll concede I haven't heard of that, but I'll also wager that a few modern online techniques can scale things much better. An online course, assuming a "tight budget" would employ a special second professor whose sole job it was to answer the forum comments. Then the Moderator system automatically puts him at for example +5 so that his remarks show up instantly. A Prof who really knows his stuff can drill out some 15 comments an hour, so say 4 hours of work a week for the class, pretty soon 60 authoriative replies to the best questions would shape the discussion, because the students would begin re-quoting the answer farther down the thread.
In traditional University, I for example was lucky if the class ever got more than five questions combined in the entire hour because all the time was spent in the lecture. So I'd take 60 answers any day, because chances are at least a couple of them are close to the same question I had.
Let's separate topics into "objective" and "subjective".
The "Objective" ones are "easy" - math-engineering-parts of science. There is supposed to be "1.0001" right answers. (The "Right One" and the one in a million shot that the official answer is in fact incorrect.) So no amount of students thrashing around with no closure will help if at the end of the day the instructor-team doesn't produce the right answer. Then there's more thrashing about why 70% didn't get it right, and there is where you learn.
On the subjective stuff, yeah, it heads more into what the Prof wants to hear, but a good Prof might actually have a clue. Look at the Legal Disputes we have going on here. We desperately need an IAAL whose paid specialty (from the EFF?) is to lead the discussions because however much we joke about the topic, law is hard, and 85% of our comments are flawed. The IAAL might make an error, but it's gonna be a much narrower error than most of our 200 comments.
But "who will know"? I thought for a few minutes, and picked NC-ND for the license. So mere sniffing "isn't commercial" (because that's just the server operating etc), but then the logjam should pop up if someone tries to include it in paid sales data to an ad company, because then that's both derivative and commercial.
Not counting the whole David and Goliath problems, isn't an infringement of a copyrighted work a penalty of X thousand dollars? What legal defense could they have, "we didn't look at the data we collected and didn't know it was a creative work?" Just because "oh, our system automatically collects those" isn't a defense - it contains a notice and an email for license inquiries.
So, if a page has... say... one min.... Let's try Gizmodo.... Ghostery has found the following on this page:
ChartBeat Criteo DoubleClick Facebook Connect Google Analytics NetRatings SiteCensus New Relic Parse.ly Quantcast ScoreCard Research Beacon SkimLinks Typekit by Adobe
Isn't that 1 infringement per advertiser that received that Creative Work in the data?
Exactly, but what if a piece of data is in both categories? That is what I was exploring. My string is 350 words long, containing computer code, a poem, and essay, code words, and a copyright notice, and an email for inquiries on licensing. So my point was, since that's clearly a creative work, what happens depending upon where it exists and what mechanisms retrieve it, copy it, and re-publish it?
Per one of my gripes a day ago, thank you for being actively involved in your Ask thread!
My next question for you, and the/. crew at large, is... why not ask one of the IAAL types here if they can do this Pro Bono? I'm a little fuzzy on what jurisdiction is legal to file in vs where you are, etc, but aren't we all saying the initial file is the easy part? Can't one of the IAAL gang here drill that off in like an hour?
Slashdot Lawyers: Won't You Think Of The Little Guy?? : )
Guys, sometimes the pace of "innovation" is slow. Do Not Track was Innovative. No one ever said Innovative had to be actually effective, though it helps public perception more when it is.
Look at the phrase "without actual laws that limit the recording and sharing of..... identifiable data". Doesn't that sound a lot like... wait for it... Copyright? And remember how they don't care where you got your copy from?
Well for the sake of the First Raindrop, I set my User Agent string to a new Creative Commons NC poem by me. So any site that decides to "keep, and massage, and exploit" it (not just sniff!) would be violating my copyright, right?
Slashdot Mirror
I know, different countries and all that, but increasingly country divisions among laws are starting to blur based on world wide news like this.
Notice that this isn't even either child-pr0n or terrorism directly, it's "just mean". That's dangerous because at least the other slippery excuses get rolled up under safety. This one is "you're being mean so let's wreck your ability to get a job".
Once you allow "tasteless joke" as a valid reason to get arrested it gets really chilly, really quick. Getting ahead of the Citation Needed crowd (also a chilling factor!) there are 1,000 tasteless jokes per year in standup comedy in the UK and another 2,000 in the US. (We have more of everything, boring math and understated.) So suddenly because it's on Facebook it becomes a crime?!
That's really bad news. It's like the Powers That Be really don't want Social Media anymore.
It started with the old hourly charges from the old services like CompuServe and AOL, then "because of consumer demand" they went to Unlimited.
Notice this article talks about the "entertainment" side. Look at the Cloud side.
1. "Everyone use your software from the Cloud! It's nice and fluffy!"
2. "Let's cap bandwidth so that when you pull your data every 7 seconds you burn 4 megs, and then you will hit your cap and we can charge the fees."
If I was better at graphic design, I've wanted to make "chart news" with trends like these pointing in opposite directions in 2010 that becomes 2012's news when they collide.
"Sir! We have a lot of pictures!"
"Leave them alone, Lieutenant. We don't have the copyright license to copy them, because the owners are long dead."
"But Sir!"
"I SAID, leave them alone! Haven't you heard of biogenic-nuclear copyright licenses? Without the antidote we'd all die."
However Startpage has been yelling at me "you have done a large amount of searches, we are going to block you to prove you're not a bot."
(like 10 a day, mostly going to X sites)
Tip, if Slashdot is going to improve, the posters need to do a little more work.
"Indiana poet James Whitcomb Riley (1849â"1916) may have coined the phrase when he wrote "when I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."[1][2]"
And Slashdot wants to know where so we can flashmob you and force you to accept new revenue and boost sales!
Naw, I think it's about the indirect "Facebook Placement" that's starting to creep in that is bugging people. Let's try a few titles:
Why Are We So Rude Online? - and of all of "Online", we get: "For example, a study found that browsing Facebook tends to lower people's self control."
What Happened To Diaspora, the Facebook Killer? It's Complicated
How Noah Kagan Got Fired From Facebook and Lost $100 Million
WTFM: Write the Freaking Manual - and of all "tech giants" we get "Google (Go), Twitter (Bootstrap), Facebook (iOS 6 Facebook Integration), Microsoft (Windows Store apps), and Apple (Create Apps for IOS 6)".
The Day Leo Traynor Confronted His Troll - "Dublin-based writer Leo Traynor has written a piece about confronting the troll who ...hacked his Facebook...
Teachers Write an Open Textbook In a Weekend Hackathon - The progress can be followed by visiting the repository at GitHub or the project Facebook page."
Illinois Prof Calls for a Federal Law To Safeguard Digital Afterlives - and of all digital afterlives we get: "Mazzone argues that Facebook and other online services".
Privacy Watchdogs Want Facebook, Datalogix Deal Probed
California Employers Can't Ask For Your Facebook Password - excuse me, "J053 sends word that California has passed legislation making it illegal for both colleges and employers to request social media account access from students, employees, and prospective hires. " But of all Social Media, the Title went for "Facebook".
Facebook Denies Leak of Users' Private Messages
Man Arrested In Greece For "Blasphemous" Facebook Page
New York Times Takes Aim At Data Center - Oh look, it's tagged "Facebook"
How Internet Data Centers Waste Power - This is the price being paid to ensure everyone has instant access to every email they've ever received, or for their instant Facebook status update. Data Center providers are finding that they can't rack servers fast enough to provide for users' needs: A few companies say they are using extensively re-engineered software and cooling systems to decrease wasted power. Among them are Facebook and Google, which also have redesigned their hardware. Still, according to recent disclosures, Google's data centers consume nearly 300 million watts and Facebook's about 60 million watts. (So of only two data centers, they went with Facebook and Google.)
Facebook Wants You To Snitch On Friends Not Using Their Real Name
Facebook Disables Face Recognition In EU
Salesforce CEO Benioff: Future Software Will Look Like Facebook
Can a Court Order You To Delete a Facebook Account?
Patent Troll Goes After Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Yahoo, IBM, Others
----
So will that do for two weeks worth? Facebook (and Google and Apple) are where they are because they're playing "Product Placement News". Get big enough so that bunches of news stories merit your "Brand Name" being inserted as a news item.
Hi there. Offtopic, but your sig is incredible.
"Don't point out the elephants in the middle of the room. Just play along, be nice and remember to bring lots of peanuts."
Echoing a post of mine elsewhere.
Isn't trolling the theme of making up something designed to get people riled up?
Your article does a much better job of detailing the raw concerns I touched on above - I too noticed big problems with the police aspect.
"There are a lot of people arguing that this whole story is a fable; the IT guy the author presents to defend his account is a feckless bullshitter. Basically it's a case of two guys who don't know that they don't know the technical difficulties in what they claim to have done. The whole thing is embarrassing and annoying."
Are we getting ... wait for it ... trolled? (Can I start a meme? Rick-Trolled?)
What's really out of whack is the sequence of events. So the cops can't find this guy, they're wringing their hands in helplessness. Along comes "An IT Genius" that traces the house by IP ... and the cops couldn't call any of their guys on the entire force to do that? However if the kid torrented a Song they would have found him pronto.
Be careful, if you become sufficiently wrong it turns into a twisted kind of "Right" and gets passed.
offtopic -
p.s. your site expired -
NOTICE: This domain name expired on 09/23/2012 and is pending renewal or deletion.
http://kaoticevil.net/
Oh my goodness, that comment and the related article are among the most vicious things I've ever seen.
Both of you even admit you're begging for superhuman miracles at the beginning. "Look how fragile our business is!"
But then when it begins to "require new staff", and all the meetings set in, "K Thx Bye" is the recommended course? If he doesn't have Priority Rights to stock and such, then it sounds like he's getting screwed. Why should he ever have bothered to start the business at all if he had foreseen this endgame? It's just fancily worded treachery. Yuck.
"Because for some reason antiquated information services are superior to modern ones, in the same way that by having automobiles we're losing on the bond with nature we used to enjoy when all we had was a horse, a buggy, and stunning view of the horses ass".
You basically nailed it. It's a case of 10 steps forward with smartphones and then just take 2 steps back if you inadvertently end up with too many Favorite Sites to watch, so fine, cull them a little.
These "Back in the Good Ol' Days" articles are pretty bogus. How many of us remember having to kill 3 hours playing Kick the Can maybe before our parents were free to take us to the fair or something. Or later, the 2 hour phone convos consisting of "I'm bored." "Yeah, me too. Nothing to do on a Wednesday night."
As for those people who are apparently the saving grace of conversation, anyone remember getting into a conversation like "Ford Bronco has more horsepower." "No, Chevy all the way man, Fords are for wimps." And there was no way to settle it. Now you just go to the much maligned Wikipedia, pick your models, and the winner of the argument emerges in about twenty minutes.
Not sure we're talking on the same plane.
I meant that Today's Scary Leader is/will soon be sitting on a button that could blow up the world. It's not about marching troops per se anymore, it's all down to convincing that guy not to push the button.
That's exactly why I did my little experiment.
So a court wouldn't (supposedly) care about a song being transmitted just because it was dumped in the User Agent Field? Just change the file type at the end to .mp3? Oh, it's a Song, so it matters then, right? Sure, gimme an hour, I'll make it a Song.
This is part of my point that we're not treating all copyrighted works with the same zeal. Movies, followed by Songs, are driving Copyright. But only for Rich organizations, right? Meanwhile the rest of creative works get to suffer? I purposely posted a poem, and an essay, and computer code, and code words, and a notice. That surely makes it a creative work. Just because I stuck it in a place where "automated systems are used to copying stuff" doesn't make it okay to copy.
I'm saying, wy not have an IAAL guy here contact the Asker, do a half hour interview, get the info he needs, and do an hour's worth of filing?
No need for it to be posted. Just why burn 200 slashdot comments when an hour and half might kick it along?
Trying to save this from a First Post Godwin,
Mr. H. is passe. That's not precisely how the next threat will manifest. The world is too networked for that. I don't have time to read my 1,000 pages for Citations Needed, but basically Mr. H. got as far as he did because of the specific places he was in geography-time.
Now, we might see another Charismatic Dangerous Leader, yes. But you can't go just marching along, not today. So the next Bad Guy will be more of a Loose Cannon that needs to be talked down Game Theory style, with VERY clever diplomacy.
I'll concede I haven't heard of that, but I'll also wager that a few modern online techniques can scale things much better. An online course, assuming a "tight budget" would employ a special second professor whose sole job it was to answer the forum comments. Then the Moderator system automatically puts him at for example +5 so that his remarks show up instantly. A Prof who really knows his stuff can drill out some 15 comments an hour, so say 4 hours of work a week for the class, pretty soon 60 authoriative replies to the best questions would shape the discussion, because the students would begin re-quoting the answer farther down the thread.
In traditional University, I for example was lucky if the class ever got more than five questions combined in the entire hour because all the time was spent in the lecture. So I'd take 60 answers any day, because chances are at least a couple of them are close to the same question I had.
Sorry, I profoundly disagree.
Let's separate topics into "objective" and "subjective".
The "Objective" ones are "easy" - math-engineering-parts of science. There is supposed to be "1.0001" right answers. (The "Right One" and the one in a million shot that the official answer is in fact incorrect.) So no amount of students thrashing around with no closure will help if at the end of the day the instructor-team doesn't produce the right answer. Then there's more thrashing about why 70% didn't get it right, and there is where you learn.
On the subjective stuff, yeah, it heads more into what the Prof wants to hear, but a good Prof might actually have a clue. Look at the Legal Disputes we have going on here. We desperately need an IAAL whose paid specialty (from the EFF?) is to lead the discussions because however much we joke about the topic, law is hard, and 85% of our comments are flawed. The IAAL might make an error, but it's gonna be a much narrower error than most of our 200 comments.
Oh, of course.
But "who will know"? I thought for a few minutes, and picked NC-ND for the license. So mere sniffing "isn't commercial" (because that's just the server operating etc), but then the logjam should pop up if someone tries to include it in paid sales data to an ad company, because then that's both derivative and commercial.
Not counting the whole David and Goliath problems, isn't an infringement of a copyrighted work a penalty of X thousand dollars? What legal defense could they have, "we didn't look at the data we collected and didn't know it was a creative work?" Just because "oh, our system automatically collects those" isn't a defense - it contains a notice and an email for license inquiries.
So, if a page has ... say... one min.... Let's try Gizmodo....
Ghostery has found the following on this page:
ChartBeat
Criteo
DoubleClick
Facebook Connect
Google Analytics
NetRatings SiteCensus
New Relic
Parse.ly
Quantcast
ScoreCard Research Beacon
SkimLinks
Typekit by Adobe
Isn't that 1 infringement per advertiser that received that Creative Work in the data?
Exactly, but what if a piece of data is in both categories? That is what I was exploring. My string is 350 words long, containing computer code, a poem, and essay, code words, and a copyright notice, and an email for inquiries on licensing. So my point was, since that's clearly a creative work, what happens depending upon where it exists and what mechanisms retrieve it, copy it, and re-publish it?
Hi there.
Per one of my gripes a day ago, thank you for being actively involved in your Ask thread!
My next question for you, and the /. crew at large, is ... why not ask one of the IAAL types here if they can do this Pro Bono? I'm a little fuzzy on what jurisdiction is legal to file in vs where you are, etc, but aren't we all saying the initial file is the easy part? Can't one of the IAAL gang here drill that off in like an hour?
Slashdot Lawyers: Won't You Think Of The Little Guy?? : )
Guys, sometimes the pace of "innovation" is slow. Do Not Track was Innovative. No one ever said Innovative had to be actually effective, though it helps public perception more when it is.
Look at the phrase "without actual laws that limit the recording and sharing of ..... identifiable data". Doesn't that sound a lot like ... wait for it ... Copyright? And remember how they don't care where you got your copy from?
Well for the sake of the First Raindrop, I set my User Agent string to a new Creative Commons NC poem by me. So any site that decides to "keep, and massage, and exploit" it (not just sniff!) would be violating my copyright, right?
Luv ta too AC.
Meanwhile the guy I replied to changed to my Friend and he was my audience.