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What Should Start-Ups Do With the Brilliant Jerk?

First time accepted submitter glowend writes "Cliff Oxford writes in the New York Times 'I define Brilliant Jerks as specialized, high-producing performers. They are not, however, brilliant business people, and that is what companies need during periods of rapid growth. There are a lot of hurdles to cross when companies move from start-up to growth, including dealing with chaos and changes in culture. But the biggest hurdle is dealing with the human factor — how you move, shift and replace people as the company grows into the next level of success.' So how do you make the best use of the Brilliant Jerk as your company grows?"

480 comments

  1. Do unto others by dietdew7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    as you would have them do unto you.

    1. Re:Do unto others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you can just "do unto others" (per rules of maximally effective mercenaries).

      (Captcha: employ)

    2. Re:Do unto others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I define 'douchebag' as the guy who writes this type of spammy article.

    3. Re:Do unto others by Jeng · · Score: 4, Funny

      as you would have them do unto you.

      There are things some people want done to them that I do not want done to me.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    4. Re:Do unto others by Type44Q · · Score: 2

      There are things some people want done to them that I do not want done to me.

      Showered a lot in the Navy, did you?

    5. Re:Do unto others by Jeng · · Score: 1

      Naw, tried joining the Army, tried Joining the Air Force. Although I had great test scores I was a complete fuck up so they said no.

      They were also concerned for some odd reason with me being born in Canada. /boggle

      Then again this was back when Clinton was in office and the military was being shrunk.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    6. Re:Do unto others by Instine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      what should a brilliant jerk do with a start up might be the real question. If they're brilliant, it will probably be up to them in reallity.

      --
      Because you can - or because you should?
    7. Re:Do unto others by thewiz · · Score: 1

      Sadly, many people treat others poorly.
      Too bad that the assailants doesn't realize that they are assaulting themselves.

      --
      If "disco" means "I learn" in Latin, does "discothèque" mean "I learn technology"?
    8. Re:Do unto others by Tablizer · · Score: 3

      There are things some people want done to them that I do not want done to me.

      WARNING: High-Risk-Of-TMI Zone has been reached. Click with caution.

    9. Re:Do unto others by Homr+Zodyssey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If we remove the adjective "Brilliant", it seems that the original post is saying that people who produce things are jerks and business people aren't. That would be the opposite of my experience.

      It also sounds like he's saying, "We have a guy who did all the work to get us off the ground. He's not as necessary anymore, so the PHBs want to sideline him and reap the benefits of his hard work."

      Perhaps you should think about giving HIM a golden parachute like you would one of your "Brilliant Business People" buddies.

    10. Re:Do unto others by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      I applaud your wisdom , and wish more of the business folks would be as wise.

    11. Re:Do unto others by KaoticEvil · · Score: 1

      Do unto others BEFORE the do unto you. ftfy

      --
      You can close your eyes to reality but not to memories.
    12. Re:Do unto others by sa666_666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Isn't this how most business people think? IME, I've never in my life encountered a group of people who are so prejudiced toward those that actually do the work. And the further one is removed from actually getting their hands 'dirty' and doing something, the more they're praised. No wonder society is so screwed up.

    13. Re:Do unto others by znrt · · Score: 0

      Then again this was back when Clinton was in office and the military was being shrunk.

      are you implying that military policy is somehow related to the particular starlet that hosts the us idiocracy show at any given moment?

    14. Re:Do unto others by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I recall seeing that happen once at a previous job. Four of us, and one gent who acted as leader/purchaser/fill-in-admin/etc, basically built an entire IT infrastructure from the ground up. Then the PTB hired this reject VP from a huge F500 corp as the new IT Director. Everything immediately goes to shit as he starts slinging around acronyms and demands that were workable for huge orgs like the one he just left, but were impossible for a tiny IT department to implement properly in the deadlines he wanted. To top that off, he whips out the microscope, looking for something - anything - to hold over each of our heads as a threat and as a consolidation of power. It just got uglier from there. It took a development admin suffering a stroke, and a sysadmin getting a heart attack before this jackass would get a clue and hire some help to fulfill his ever-increasing list of demands. Given the economy at the time, other jobs were impossible to find, so we were stuck for awhile.

      There's only one person out of the original crew left, and she's likely to be gone once her degree is complete. The rest of us said 'fuck it' and pulled the D-Ring on his ass at the first graceful opportunity (and some even sooner). Last I heard their expenses went way up since most of us left (having to hire consultants all the time to fix even minor breaks is a bitch, I guess).

      Eventually shit hits the fan for such people. OTOH, even if it doesn't, no skin offa mine - the job I left them for came with a huge raise, a mere 30% of the workload, and telecommuting. First 3 months felt like an effing vacation to me.

      But yeah, the corp was shifting from start-up (of sorts) to full-blown. Thing is, unless someone takes control of the situation, it'll eventually crash - either figuratively (budget) or literally (as systems crap out).

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    15. Re:Do unto others by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure why they would be concerned about you being born in Canada unless that made you an illegal immigrant. The US military has lots of non-citizens in it. In fact, that's one of the easiest and most direct way for foreigners to become a citizen. Serve a complete term in the military and its automatic with no tests or anything.

      I bet it had more to do with downsizing.

    16. Re:Do unto others by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      I thought the same thing as you. And I think it shows how much the "businessmen" are hopelessly fucked today.

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    17. Re:Do unto others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In reality it always ends up being up to the stupid jocks that are providing the funding. And sadly, the brilliant jerk, who probably created the opportunity to create wealth in the first place, is often discarded shortly before that wealth is realized because he is in the way of the stupid jocks from maximizing their return.

    18. Re:Do unto others by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      If we remove the adjective "Brilliant", it seems that the original post is saying that people who produce things are jerks and business people aren't.

      Removing an adjective from a sentence can change its meaning by a non-trivial amount.

      So while what you say is true, I don't see what [non-obvious] point you're trying to make.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    19. Re:Do unto others by flaming+error · · Score: 1

      I think the gist is that jerks can be found in management, too.

      But brilliant jerks seem to be in or from R&D (even if they took the reins like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs)

    20. Re:Do unto others by Mandrel · · Score: 2

      as you would have them do unto you.

      There are things some people want done to them that I do not want done to me.

      This is actually quite true. We should treat others according to our best estimate of how they'd like to be treated. The original proverb selfishly judges actions in terms of our own preferences.

    21. Re:Do unto others by mjwx · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The first thing you do is stop refeing to them as jerks.

      From the article,

      When he spoke, everyone became quiet and listened â" not out of excitement for what he was going to say but out of respect.

      He was always the first to cover for doctors who were on call. He was always the first to volunteer to work on holidays

      This is a jerk?

      I think the "boss" blogger needs to get up and have a big cup of reality.

      This is the complete opposite of a jerk, the kind of person who keeps the business ticking along as usual no matter what is thrown in his way. The kind of person you dont want to piss off into leaving by calling them a jerk behind their back.

      So he hasn't got much business acumen, that's not his job, that's yours (the boss). Chances are you know fsck all about his job and would have a very hard time replacing him.

      You dont find something to "do" with a person like this, you give them something to do. Finding the work is not his problem, making sure the P&L statements look good is not his problem. His problem is doing the work that your clients pay for.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    22. Re:Do unto others by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      The US military has lots of non-citizens in it. In fact, that's one of the easiest and most direct way for foreigners to become a citizen. Serve a complete term in the military and its automatic with no tests or anything.

      Sounds like Starship Troopers. Interesting...

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    23. Re:Do unto others by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      It took a development admin suffering a stroke, and a sysadmin getting a heart attack before this jackass would get a clue and hire some help to fulfill his ever-increasing list of demands. Given the economy at the time, other jobs were impossible to find, so we were stuck for awhile.

      It is rarely the case that other jobs are impossible to find. Great jobs that are exactly what you want to do, fair enough. But once you are working in conditions of such stress and abuse, any option, including having to stay in and live on beans on toast for a few months, is preferable.

      And yes, I know it's different if you've got a family to support, but it seems unlikely that was your situation at the time if one of the team hadn't even finished her degree.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    24. Re:Do unto others by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Maybe that is where the movie got the idea from. It's been that way in the US for ages.

      I did a quick check, it appears that you need and understanding of the constitution, able to read and write, and know some US history. However, I didn't see where you had to take a test like traditional routes. It isn't a full term of service either. It's one year during peace times and 1 day or more during designated times of hostilities which is laid out in the immigration and naturalization act as long as your separation from the military was honorable.. Curiously, until a president writes an executive order stating otherwise, we have been in one of those designated times of hostilities since Sept. 11 2001.

    25. Re:Do unto others by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 1

      Isn't this how most business people think? IME, I've never in my life encountered a group of people who are so prejudiced toward those that actually do the work.

      I wonder about that. Whilst I can certainly feel what you mean, working in IT myself. I can see that the "producing people" are not the way forward for society. Whilst there are exceptions, if it were up to most producing people their company would advance to the point where they have their hands ~90% full and then they'd make it a crime punishable by death to change anything at all.

      I've had a little, but only a little, experience on the other side of the fence, and there is much not to like about these "producing people", if you are dependant on their products. They are not proactive. They are concerned with their own pet peeves, and will gladly run the project into the ground to get their 5th "redesign, this time it'll be right" done. You can explain the real function of the software to them ad nauseum, but they will be concerned with getting the logic "closed" (as in there is no way at all to get the software to do something unexpected). They will optimize queries that are run yearly on a table with 1000 records down to the assembly executed ...

      And of course, the more recent one : they will test the software. Now this sounds great, doesn't it ? Except it takes them at least twice as long to write the tests as the functionality. And they will write the tests while watching the coverage tools' output, writing tests to the specific implementation of their routines, which results in a million tiny little tests and no real system test ... and the result is that despite spending double the time testing the software it completely crashes the first day of production, and turns out to be intricately and invasively optimized ... for the wrong thing.

      The producing people ... well they do the work that needs to be done.
      The business people in small firms ... make the work possible in the first place.

      Business people do not give programmers the information they feel they need (but partially this is the programmer's fault for not simply collecting that information themselves). Programmers, aside from not giving anything remotely near the feedback business people require, let their own academic pet peeves override judgement. And I don't just mean programming language selection.

      Maybe it's just that I've always been a "producing person" but it seems to me that's the easier job by far.

    26. Re:Do unto others by schroedingers_hat · · Score: 1

      Humans are good at doing these things called generalising and abstraction.
      We can abstract away from receiving buttsecks to 'things that bring pleasure to the individual' or even more abstract concepts like 'maximising my utility function'. It gets fuzzy and difficult when trying to compare dissimilar utility functions, but that's why we have all these laws and public forums for debate and such like.

    27. Re:Do unto others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps jerk isn't the right word... although under the definition that I commonly think, it would.

      But... arrogant, much-higher-than-thou, egotistical twat? Oh sure, you can have a NICE arrogant, much-higher-than-thou, egotistical twat, and he knows his shit so you listen to him when he talks... and he may well take holiday shifts (I've also noticed arrogant, much-higher-than-thou, egotistical twats tend to be workaholics), but that doesn't stop him from being a arrogant, much-higher-than-thou, egotistical twat that grates on your nerves and has you always wondering if it would be worth the extra money of hiring two people just to get rid of this guy who irritates everyone. But is still NICE about it, so you can't really say much.

      That clear it up for you?

    28. Re:Do unto others by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      For what it's worth: The company was paying her tuition, which is why she's still there. As for the jobs situation, I decided to hang around until I found something better due to having massive bills to pay - but for awhile, better wasn't forthcoming, as most folks in the area thought that 'bad economy=lowball', and once you get up around the six-figure range in this area (PDX Metro), you need to be real picky. I remember getting calls a year later as the same prospective employers discovered to their horror what an employee willing to take less is capable of doing.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    29. Re:Do unto others by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I love this response. And being a genius jerk myself, may I suggest giving them an R&D budget and letting them pick their team, thus moving them out of day-to-day operations into what they're actually good at?

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    30. Re:Do unto others by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      And when Canadian Fishermen were considered a primary economic enemy.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    31. Re:Do unto others by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Wozniak, is that you?

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    32. Re:Do unto others by Jeng · · Score: 1

      Well, I didn't want to go and shoot people so I was going more for fixing radios and stuff like that and you need a better security rating than I had for that.

      I had assumed I was a legal US citizen since I had a social security card, the military informed me otherwise. A social security card is not proof of citizenship so yes they may have considered me an illegal alien.

      I have always been a US citizen, but it has only been within the last 5 years that I have had actual proof, a passport.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    33. Re:Do unto others by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I must be a producing person. While I agree that those things make it hard to hit a "any software that takes more than four months is a failure" style deadline, I'd argue that every dollar spent on good design and testing saves $5 in coding and $100 of tech support later.

      Do it right the first time, don't have your software capable of doing the unexpected, and your tech support lines will be quiet, and your maintenance time when new features DO get added will be minimal.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    34. Re:Do unto others by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I'm not at six figures, but I'm in the same market in the high 5's, and I think this perfectly describes both the 2001-2003 recession and the 2008+ Depression, which is now showing signs of letting up (in that I'm getting about 5 recruiting emails a week and only 2-3 would require me to move to the other side of the country to find work).

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    35. Re:Do unto others by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      And, like I said in my earlier post- belong there. Give him a nice fat happy R&D budget and the ability to pick his own team, then replace him with more of a business type if that makes you happier.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    36. Re:Do unto others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, they only accept fuck-up's with lousy testscores...

    37. Re:Do unto others by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The person who got the company off the ground should be treated well in some way. That might involve a nice exit package. Or it might a position in the company that doesn't involve being CEO if the founder is willing to take such a post; that's even better when you can do it because you keep the vision alive without having the founder mess up day to day management.

    38. Re:Do unto others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're missing the point of the golden rule... It has nothing to do with what the other person wants. It's a method for keeping track of your own behavior. You're not serving the other person's interests. It's an expression of dignity and respect. YOU should behave in a way to people that would be acceptable to you should those people behave that way to you. The purpose is not to indulge someone else, rather, it is to regulate your own egotism, selfishness, cruelty and greed.

    39. Re:Do unto others by mjwx · · Score: 1

      But... arrogant, much-higher-than-thou, egotistical twat?

      So someone who stays back on weekends, helps train and educate the junior members of the team and has earned the respect of their coworkers is an arrogant egotistical twat because... they're good at what they do.

      Fuck, you need a big hit with the cluebat too.

      The person described in the article is not egotistical, in fact if you are intimidated by the fact a coworker or subordinate is smarter than you, you're the twat.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    40. Re:Do unto others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Getting an email from a recruiter is NOT THE SAME THING as getting an actual
      job offer in writing from an employer. Don't judge the economy as recovering
      based on the number of cheap emails you get inquiring as to your interest in
      a job. Those jobs may not actually exist. Try asking the recruiter who
      emailed you for the name and number of the hiring manager. They won't give
      it to you. A lot of times, the recruiter is just topping up their resume
      databases with more resumes so they can charge more for searches, since
      there are fewer and fewer employers actually doing any searching and
      hiring. As the watering hole for recruiters dries up, they will do anything
      to stay alive, including lying to you about an open position, just so they
      can add your resume to their database. Buyer beware.

    41. Re:Do unto others by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Thought I had replied to this yesterday. My recruiters give me the names and numbers of hiring managers- because I work only with recruiting companies that work on commission, and they don't get paid unless I get hired. The only problem I have in this arena is with my 16 year resume, recruiters keep matching me to skills I haven't used in five or ten years.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  2. The Jerk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Steve Martin made a movie about this. It contains all you need to know.

    1. Re:The Jerk by magarity · · Score: 0

      Steve Martin made a movie about this. It contains all you need to know.

      The word 'jerk' has gone through a transformation from when it started. First it was someone cool, then it was someone who behaves strangely (when that movie was made) and now it means someone completely rude and annoying.

    2. Re:The Jerk by cruff · · Score: 5, Informative

      The word 'jerk' has gone through a transformation from when it started. First it was someone cool, then it was someone who behaves strangely (when that movie was made) and now it means someone completely rude and annoying.

      When I was growing up (before the movie) in our neck of the woods, a jerk, as applied to a person, always had the third meaning (rude, annoying), unless one was referring to a "soda jerk" in old time movies. I've never heard of the other meanings, and even my Merriam Webster dictionary doesn't define the other meanings you gave, not even in a historical context. But I'm not surprised either, as all sorts of regionalisms exist that I've never heard of (especially when doing NYT crosswords).

    3. Re:The Jerk by Jeng · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Agreed. Jerk has always been a way to call someone an asshole without swearing.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    4. Re:The Jerk by fnj · · Score: 1

      Correct. It goes back to at least the 1950s, in my experience.

    5. Re:The Jerk by thereitis · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I happened to be reading the steam locomotive wikipedia entry and it says:

      During the early days of railroading, the crew simply stopped next to a stream and filled the tender using leather buckets. This was known as “jerking water” and led to the term "jerkwater towns" (meaning a small town, a term which today is considered derisive).

      I don't know the origin of the word 'jerk' but I wonder if it had to do anything with the kind of people who normally did the "jerking water" job. I could see that being shortened down to 'jerks'.

    6. Re:The Jerk by PRMan · · Score: 2

      In this context, it would mean a guy from a jerkwater town. But I was under the impression it was short for jerk-off, which was somebody doing something to themselves...

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    7. Re:The Jerk by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The word 'jerk' has gone through a transformation from when it started. First it was someone cool

      No, "jerk" was never a synonym for "cool". It was originally coined to label the kid that had a job pouring soda at the drug store; "Soda jerk". In short, the uncool guy, the guy that had to take all the cool kids' shit or be fired. It transformed from there to mean "dweeb" or "dork" (the Steve Martin jerk) and finally morphed as a euphamism for "asshole".

    8. Re:The Jerk by Homr+Zodyssey · · Score: 1

      Masturbation is mentioned at the end of that definition:
      jerk (n.2) "tedious and ineffectual person," 1935 (the lyric in "Big Rock Candy Mountain" apparently is "Where they hung the Turk [not jerk] that invented work"), Amer.Eng. carnival slang, of uncertain origin. Perhaps from jerkwater town (1878), where a steam locomotive crew had to take on boiler water from a trough or a creek because there was no water tank [Barnhart, OED]. This led 1890s to an adjectival use of jerk as "inferior, insignificant." Alternatively, or influenced by, verbal phrase jerk off "masturbate" [Rawson].

    9. Re:The Jerk by bmimatt · · Score: 0

      No points, but +1
      And it should be pepperoni and mushrooms pizza, FYI

    10. Re:The Jerk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure you've heard it a lot in your life, jerk.

    11. Re:The Jerk by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      no, jerk-off is slang for jack-off which is where your uncle Jack, who is often a jerk, is stuck on a roof and you need to get him down. About once a week, jack would be chased onto the roof for being a jerk and at the end of the day, someone had to help Jack off.

    12. Re:The Jerk by twoallbeefpatties · · Score: 2

      Do not taunt happy brilliant jerk?

      --
      Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
    13. Re:The Jerk by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      But not after midnight.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    14. Re:The Jerk by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      a euphamism for "asshole".

      So it's nothing to do with onenism?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    15. Re:The Jerk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly, and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to Happy Brilliant Jerk.
      2. Caution: Happy Brilliant Jerk may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds.
      3. Happy Brilliant Jerk contains a liquid core, which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
      4. Do not use Happy Brilliant Jerk on concrete.
      5. Discontinue use of Happy Brilliant Jerk if any of the following occurs:
        - itching
        - vertigo
        - dizziness
        - tingling in extremities
        - loss of balance or coordination
        - slurred speech
        - temporary blindness
        - profuse sweating
        - heart palpitations
      6. If Happy Brilliant Jerk begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.
      7. Happy Brilliant Jerk may stick to certain types of skin.
      8. When not in use, Happy Brilliant Jerk should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration. Failure to do so relieves the makers of Happy Brilliant Jerk, Wacky Products Incorporated, and its parent company, Global Chemical Unlimited, of any and all liability.
      9. Ingredients of Happy Brilliant Jerk include an unknown glowing substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space.
      10. Happy Brilliant Jerk has been shipped to our troops in Saudi Arabia and is also being dropped by our warplanes on Iraq.
      11. Happy Brilliant Jerk comes with a lifetime guarantee.

    16. Re:The Jerk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's just after midnight, somewhere, all the time....

  3. easy by hypergreatthing · · Score: 5, Insightful

    brilliant business people are the opposite of productive.
    Jerk in any way shape or form is not needed in any business.

    1. Re:easy by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 0

      brilliant business people are the opposite of productive.

      That's an ignorent statement.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    2. Re:easy by hypergreatthing · · Score: 5, Insightful

      brilliant business people are the opposite of productive.

      That's an ignorent statement.

      The whole point of being a brilliant business person is to let others produce for you while taking full credit/full benefit from it while exerting the least amount of time making that happen.

      And i'm fairly sure it's ignorant.

    3. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me guess, you work at a McDonalds.

    4. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The whole point of being a brilliant business person is to see an opportunity and to be able to take it in order to make profit from doing something that the market wants.

      Of-course in the absence of free market there are other possibilities, like buying influence from politicians to establish yourself as a monopoly.

      Your "definition" doesn't cut it at all. Workers don't produce out of nowhere, they have to be hired and told what to do and before they can be hired there has to be a case made to hire them, savings have to be allocated to hire them, tools have to be acquired so that the workers can be productive. Throw a bunch of 'workers' together without any purpose, capital, tools and management and see how far that takes you in terms of productivity.

      People who take the most business risk are not those who accept salaried positions for jobs that somebody thinks to be necessary to make more profit, it's people who take the risk in terms of putting in their own savings, capital, time and effort into a venture that nobody ever guarantees to be a winner.

    5. Re:easy by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 1

      obviously, the comment struck a chord.

    6. Re:easy by publiclurker · · Score: 1

      So, where did you say you got your MBA?

    7. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So basically a brilliant business person tells other people how to make money for said business person, while taking full credit/full benefit from it while exerting the least amount of time making that happen.

    8. Re:easy by h4rr4r · · Score: 0, Troll

      Yeah, either getting rich via options or getting a golden parachute sure is a huge risk.

    9. Re:easy by Boona · · Score: 1

      Are you the jerk from the article? Oh no wait, he was brilliant. JK :)

      Being a brilliant business person is identifying market trends and acting on them. Which means finding out what people want and delivering it to them at prices they can afford. To do this you need to get people with the right skills together on a voluntary basis by offering them compensation that they need to agree with.

      In other words, it's up to the business person to get people together in such a way that everyone involved is benefiting and is better of than they would have been otherwise.

    10. Re:easy by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 4, Funny

      Proof positive my manager is slacking off and posting on slashdot.. hey, Karl, get back to work, asshole.

    11. Re:easy by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      So starting up a business providing computer security services to banks doesn't help anyone? It's a great business opportunity, it gives a lot of opportunity for stable employment for programmers and security engineers and IT people who are needed for short-term projects (3, 6, 12 months) and would otherwise become consultants or get hired on for a short term. It creates internal positions for legal, accounting, HR, and even IT. The only one that benefits is the multi-millionaire CEO?

    12. Re:easy by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I got mine about 3 years ago, it is part of my transition from technical 'jerk' to affable manager

      A 'good' businessman is part PT Barnum and part Blackbeard the pirate, it takes a lot of puffery and cut throat decision making to get a business afloat and frankly, 20 odd years of writing code and jockeying servers really had not prepared me for it.

      As a technical person I was looked at as essential to the success of the company, but it was a bit of a risk to bring me into business meetings since I might quote something out of Alice in Wonderland, identify the immediate failings of our business plan or rant about the need to spend a bunch of money to shore up security before doing anything else... stuff that business-people would rather ignore once that they are in PT Barnum mode

      My solution is a technical one... put your technical jerks in a DMZ, control your ports of access in and out of the DMZ, give them the resources that they need and (if you really want to trot them out in public) invest a few years in preparing them to be 'seen' by non-techies

      BTW, if you really think that all of the 'jerks' are technical and not the business people, then you are missing out on the other half of the story

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    13. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      getting rich via options

      - take that for example, should the people who were hired by a successful startup and were promised something in case the company succeeds get more than those, who take more salary upfront?

      What about various Google employees who became millionaires, do you think they were not "productive"? They got pretty wealthy as a result of "options".

      or getting a golden parachute sure is a huge risk

      - I don't see how this is relevant. Most people who become wealthy do not become wealthy by "getting a golden parachute", that's almost as useful as talking about lottery winners.

      Yes, some people become wealthy by chance, but most people do not, so what's the point there?

    14. Re:easy by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Throw a bunch of 'workers' together without any purpose, capital, tools and management and see how far that takes you in terms of productivity.

      A bit over two hundred years, if you're talking about the U.S. Government... :p

    15. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The whole point of being a brilliant business person is to see an opportunity and to be able to take it in order to make profit from doing something that the market wants.

      No, a brilliant business person only cares about the profit. Brilliant business person don't just look for opportunities, they make them.

      Thus, what the market wants is of little consequence, as a brilliant business person can simply manipulate and shape what the market wants through marketing.

      Of-course in the absence of free market there are other possibilities, like buying influence from politicians to establish yourself as a monopoly.

      Which is exactly why no brilliant business person would want a free market. They would rather have the possibility of buying political influence, the possibility of becoming a monopoly, than to not have that possibility at all.

      Workers don't produce out of nowhere, they have to be hired and told what to do

      Businessmen don't produce out of nowhere. They have to hire workers and tell them what to do.

      Workers really are also businessmen. They're in the business of providing labour. Brilliant workers also look for (or make) opportunities to profit. Instead of selling an iPad or a loaf of bread, they're selling their labour.

      And just like other businessmen, brilliant workers also buy political influence, through unions.

      Throw a bunch of 'workers' together without any purpose, capital, tools and management and see how far that takes you in terms of productivity.

      Throw a bunch of managers together with no workers, and see how far that takes you in terms of productivity.

      Again, workers are just another business. It is through cooperation between different businessmen (labour, management, raw materials, tools, etc) that things get done.

      People who take the most business risk are not those who accept salaried positions for jobs that somebody thinks to be necessary to make more profit, it's people who take the risk in terms of putting in their own savings, capital, time and effort into a venture that nobody ever guarantees to be a winner.

      Yes, and these high risk takers are to be blamed for growing government. A salaried person has little need for risk protection. It is these high risk takers who pushed for and created the large government bodies which shield them from the moral hazards and steal productivity from rest of society to mitigate the damage they've done.

    16. Re:easy by SilentStaid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not that I'm trying to exonerate the PHBs of the world, but having a good leader who is able to focus a team towards a goal, and more specificially a financially worth while goal all while maintaining motiviation and finishing with a polished execution is so very far from trying to exert the least amount of energy.

      Business people and bosses aren't inherently lazy by nature - you've just got a bad one.

    17. Re:easy by pla · · Score: 1, Troll

      The whole point of being a brilliant business person is to see an opportunity and to be able to take it in order to make profit from having other people do something that the market wants.

      FTFY.


      Workers don't produce out of nowhere, they have to be hired and told what to do.

      Absolute unabashed bullshit. People have "produced" since before we came down from the trees. The businessman may well get credit for encouraging us as a species to produce more than we individually need (though whether you call that "kudos" or "blame" depends on your take on the current state of the world); but his actual direct role amounts to nothing more than that of a parasite.


      Throw a bunch of 'workers' together without any purpose, capital, tools and management and see how far that takes you in terms of productivity.

      We made it to all seven continents, to the top of the food chain, and discovered beer before "business" started taking a cut. Far enough for ya?

    18. Re:easy by Urza9814 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Throw a bunch of 'workers' together without any purpose, capital, tools and management and see how far that takes you in terms of productivity.

      Pretty far, actually...

    19. Re:easy by mcgrew · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      People who take the most business risk are not those who accept salaried positions for jobs that somebody thinks to be necessary to make more profit, it's people who take the risk in terms of putting in their own savings, capital, time and effort into a venture that nobody ever guarantees to be a winner.

      Bullshit, the people who put in the REAL risks are the ones on your fishing boat, building your skyscraper, replacing your roof, logging for the wood your business needs, the ones on your loading docks, the guy who empties your dumpster, the people who actually fucking WORK.

      Sheesh, stupid damned rich people... taking a risk? It's only money. Put your fucking life on the line and maybe you can speak intelligently about "risk". And although they risk losing a few bucks, do they risk their lives? If they lose their investment they're not risking abject poverty, but their employees are. Risk, my ass. Everyone else risks far more than they do and they should shut the fuck up about risk..

    20. Re:Easy by zentigger · · Score: 1

      You must work for the government.

      --

      the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head

    21. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 2

      The whole point of being a brilliant business person is to see an opportunity and to be able to take it in order to make profit from having other people do something that the market wants.

      - pure nonsense.

      In fact if a businessman can do everything that needs to be done in order to make profit on his own without hiring A SINGLE OTHER PERSON he would do it, he'd make more money if it was possible not to hire anybody at all. If the businessman has enough capital to automate all of the production, then all he needs to do is to buy the machinery and get some contractors to install it, put it into operation, he pays them for the job and he starts producing.

      Unfortunately for us (all of us) it's not possible to automate every job, otherwise it would make for the most efficient and productive economy.

      Absolute unabashed bullshit. People have "produced" since before we came down from the trees.

      - of-course people produced before they were hired, but they didn't OVERPRODUCE. So you are completely missing a point of running a business, which is not to produce just for yourself. A business gives to everybody, a businessman starts a business not just to produce enough for himself, he has to overproduce, he has to produce more than one person can consume, otherwise it's not a business, it is just subsistence.

      but his actual direct role amounts to nothing more than that of a parasite.

      - this is political nonsense, it has nothing to do with the reality. The reality is that no business will survive without direction, without management that provides that direction. No business can stay profitable by not knowing which way to go. Apple computers could have easily died a number of times if it wasn't for a very good manager (whether he is lucky or good is not really relevant and it is also indistinguishable just by looking at the results).

      A parasite is what is created by the government, the government itself is a parasite, it produces nothing, it takes from producers, it promises to give to people who didn't produce part of wealth created by the people who do produce.

      We made it to all seven continents, to the top of the food chain, and discovered beer before "business" started taking a cut. Far enough for ya?

      - business doesn't "take a cut", business creates what wasn't there before.

      Beer is as much about business as any other product. Discovering something is not necessarily business in itself, but turning it into something that anybody can then consume does take business. It takes productivity, it takes engineering, it takes trade, it takes accounting, it takes very good management, because all of the above cannot survive if the components do not fit together, if the bills are not getting paid, if the costs are higher than revenues.

    22. Re:easy by closetpsycho · · Score: 1

      brilliant business people are the opposite of productive.

      That's an ignorent statement.

      The whole point of being a brilliant business person is to let others produce for you while taking full credit/full benefit from it while exerting the least amount of time making that happen.

      And i'm fairly sure it's ignorant.

      I don't know, "ignorent" could be a new word. Given the context, it could mean something that causes one to choose to ignore something. In this case your statement irritated him enough that he chooses to ignore you in the future.

    23. Re:easy by jason.sweet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's an ignorent statement.

      That's the funniest thing I have read in ages.

    24. Re:easy by Medievalist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Being a brilliant business person is identifying market trends and acting on them. Which means finding out what people want and delivering it to them at prices they can afford. To do this you need to get people with the right skills together on a voluntary basis by offering them compensation that they need to agree with.

      Nope, you can torture and enslave people, extort them, kidnap their families and be widely hailed as a brilliant business person. There's really no requirement at all that participation be "voluntary". Plenty of existing businesses, and even more historically, are or were based on exploitation of workers and/or customers.

      In other words, it's up to the business person to get people together in such a way that everyone involved is benefiting and is better of than they would have been otherwise.

      No, same mistake. You're confusing "worthwhile human being" or maybe "brilliant statesman" with "brilliant business person". Have you ever heard a first person account of how Steve Jobs interacted with Andy Herzfeld? Jobs was brutally verbally abusive, and used his ability to intimidate and dominate Herzfeld to create key components of the system that enriched Jobs (and, to a much lesser extent, Herzfeld) without any consideration for how this might harm anyone. Yet everyone considers Jobs a brilliant business person!

      There are thousands more examples, from the New England slave trade to modern Chinese labor practices. I wish you were right, but you've added some things (like, basic human decency) that are not a part of this generation's definition of a brilliant business person.

    25. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why isn't this modded Insightful and upvoted?

    26. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 0

      Bullshit, the people who put in the REAL risks are the ones on your fishing boat, building your skyscraper, replacing your roof, logging for the wood your business needs, the ones on your loading docks, the guy who empties your dumpster, the people who actually fucking WORK.

      - you don't understand what I am talking about.

      Risking your life for salary is not something extraordinary, at least you are guaranteed compensation for your effort and risk. Your risk as an employee is priced by the market, you will get higher compensation if your job is more dangerous for example, if your job requires special knowledge and training, if you are more experienced.

      If you are less experienced, if your knowledge is not specialized, etc., you will get lower compensation.

      But I am not talking about that risk, I am talking about risk of NOT knowing if you are going to get compensated. Spending years developing a business, not seeing any profit from it for the first 5 years for example is a very common occurrence in business, you are burning your effort, burning through your savings (or maybe loans, but it's still savings, and people who are loaning to you are also taking part of that risk), burning through your time.

      How do you know if you are not better off just working for somebody else, who already has a working business?

      It's much less risky to be hired as a salaried employee rather than starting your own business, otherwise everybody would do it, but most people do not.

      Money is not 'just money', it's time, it's cost of opportunity, it's effort. Try and build something for 3-6 years before you get to find out if your business will actually make a return that was worth the effort.

    27. Re:easy by ukpyr · · Score: 1

      thanks for posting that! A new one to me, but now on my reading list

    28. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      Somebody put together the capital, somebody got the tools, somebody gives direction, somebody is doing all of the figuring that is necessary to be successful.

      Nowhere in my comment did I say that a business is always started by one person, on the contrary, often businesses are a shared venture.

    29. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He's talking about BUSINESS risk, which is a different type of risk than what you're talking about

      See, his type of risks get government protection: bail outs, limited liability, copyright protection, etc.

      Your risks get "pay out of your own pocket, hippie", "let the market decide, socialist", "shut up, pirate scum", etc.

    30. Re:easy by lgarner · · Score: 2

      You're not exonerating the PHB's; a PHB is the opposite of the good leader that you describe.

    31. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, either getting rich via options or getting a golden parachute sure is a huge risk.

      Unless you're the CEO with more than 50% voting interest, it's always a risk. The CEO might be so convinced of his own product's success that he refuses to sell for any price. 20 years later, you've got RIMM or YHOO. Viable businesses that are, financially, shadows of their former selves. All the long-term employees get nothing, because everyone's options are underwater and there's no hope to ever cash out.

    32. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'd go further than that. All people that I personally know that started and run their own businesses are nearly insanely productive or at least are trying to be insanely productive. All of them had to work their asses off for at least 3 years to get somewhere, before the business would turn even 0.6% of return on the yearly investment. The problem with the majority of people is that they never even thought about running their own business, they are not thinking in those terms, they think they can hold a job and it's an equivalent of starting from scratch and actually making some venture into a profitable one. Another problem of-course is that today 'business' is nearly a dirty word, which is propaganda pushed by the establishment with political power. Businesses actually create everything we buy and use, businesses distribute everything we buy and use, businesses hire all the people *outside of government*, businesses create all the wealth (products, services).

      Of-course it's not a surprise that the majority of the population is so completely on the wrong side of it, they never actually tried to run their own real business.

    33. Re:easy by lgarner · · Score: 1

      He's obviously picking scenarios that support his predetermined viewpoint, ignoring the fact that most startups fail. We're not talking here about getting hired into a successful company at a multimillion-dollar salary. This is about mortgaging one's home to try and build something, and creating opportunities for others in the process.

      The ones h4rr4r refers to are nicknamed the "1%" (the wall-street version, that is) for a reason. They're in the vast minority.

    34. Re:easy by tibit · · Score: 1

      a businessman starts a business not just to produce enough for himself, he has to overproduce

      There are two problems with your sentiment.

      First of all, I think you're cornered into thinking about food or things that are directly usable to a person. Many people work in businesses that produce things that most of us have no direct use for. I have, for example, never had to deal with any ball bearings outside of my job. At home I have never had a need for a replacement ball bearing for anything, if I recall correctly. If I had a ball bearing business, I'd still not need any ball bearings for myself -- they come, after all, conveniently already installed in various things you buy, you're rarely a direct consumer of ball bearings. So, for me personally, a "subsistence" of ball bearings is nil. As a business leader, any bearings I made would be "overproduced".

      Secondly, even if you don't depart the little food corner of concern, it's entirely untrue that what people produced "before they were hired" never had any overproduction. It's not very hard for a subsistence farmer to generate more food in good years than their family will consume, and not all food can be preserved in rudimentary circumstances (before sealed jars became available, for example). I think as soon as you produce anything for your own use, the excess capacity is fairly easy to achieve, and often simply "just there". Moreover, as you make things for yourself, you gain skills, and eventually your productivity and quality is good enough that it's not a big deal to offer your products or services to others. It happens quite naturally for many people, and I don't think that thousands of years ago were any different in that regard. Someone had to fix a hole in the roof, and eventually they may have ended up having a sole proprietorship roofing business. Others would notice you being good at something, and they'd ask you to peruse your skills. Barter ensues, and you have business, plain and simple. You "overproduce" but simply by the virtue of working beyond your immediate needs. No big organization stands beside you, you're on your own, helping your neighbor out, perhaps getting some cheese or veggies in exchange. It's no biggie.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    35. Re:easy by SilentStaid · · Score: 1

      Fair point, it was poorly worded on my part. I meant to imply that while there are PHBs out there, not every business savvy leader is as incompetent.

      Thanks for helping me clarify.

    36. Re:easy by sandytaru · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've worked with Brilliant Jerks. They're good at what they do, and they know it. They get shit done. But they also belittle their coworkers, disrupt the work of others, have to have their finger in every pie, are unwilling to delegate things that they don't need to do any more, etc. They like to be the pilot and at the controls at all times. But as a business grows, they cannot be central to every single last project any more. When they are asked to delegate, or find themselves excluded from even a minor project, they throw a hissy fit. You don't "appreciate" them. You "need" them to be involved. You're an ungrateful git because "they" do all the work around here while you slackasses stand around the water cooler and waste time.

      The reality is that as a business goes from a startup to steady growth over time, you need people who are willing and able to delegate, otherwise they get stretched too thin, whether they want to admit it or not. That doesn't mean everything needs to be delegated, but some things that are essentially following the same steps every time can always be handed to a subordinate with proper training. Brilliant Jerks have a sense that other people cannot be trusted to do the jobs as well as they can, so they are afraid to lose that precious control, and want to do it themselves instead.

      The example in the article was of a doctor who brought in twice as much revenue as some other doctors in the practice. That means he was either 1. seeing twice as many patients as the others in the same amount of time, meaning he was not having as many meaningful patient interactions or more likely 2. ordering unnecessary and expensive tests. Brilliant Jerk doctors like him are the reason healthcare in the US is in a crisis.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    37. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'd go further than that. All people that I personally know that started and run their own businesses are nearly insanely productive or at least are trying to be insanely productive. All of them had to work their asses off for at least 3 years to get somewhere, before the business would turn even 0.6% of return on the yearly investment.

      That's not being insanely productive. That's being insanely inefficient.

      3 years to get 0.6% return? I think even a bank savings account offers a better rate.

      The problem with the majority of people is that they never even thought about running their own business, they are not thinking in those terms

      Of course they're not thinking in those terms, but it's not a problem. It's a GOOD thing. People are just being smart. 0.6% in 3 years... vs working for somebody (where basically there's no investment other than their time, so they're getting infinite returns)

      Another problem of-course is that today 'business' is nearly a dirty word, which is propaganda pushed by the establishment with political power. Businesses actually create everything we buy and use, businesses distribute everything we buy and use, businesses hire all the people *outside of government*, businesses create all the wealth (products, services).

      No, it's just good old rational self-interest. Again, compare your 0.6% return to infinite return. You'd have to be insanely stupid to choose 0.6%

      Business isn't a dirty word. It's just a very stupid word, and smart people have evolved past business. Let other suckers (i.e your friends who are "insanely productive") run businesses, and you just enjoy the fruits of their labour.

      Of-course it's not a surprise that the majority of the population is so completely on the wrong side of it, they never actually tried to run their own real business.

      No, people are on the right side of it. People don't have to try to jump off a bridge themselves to know it's a stupid idea. They THINK before they act. Logical thinking dictates that it is better to not start a business at all, so most people don't.

    38. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      You wouldn't be making ball bearings if there were no other businesses in the first place, because ball bearings, while are useful, are not directly useful for survival in a pre-business economy.

      Being efficient at making ball bearings is a good business model in a world where there is enough productivity such that ball bearings make other businesses more efficient. Ball bearings are used in machines and people use machines to be more productive than they otherwise would be, but without businesses there would be no machines built at all, or if somebody did manage to build a machine in his spare time (time he takes away from his subsistence and other activities), then again, he wouldn't be able to mass produce it, that's unlikely, it would be a wonder but it would be a one off.

      In order to be able to mass produce something it takes a long chain of businesses, most likely starting with black smiths, who produce metal tools for farmers, who would buy those tools and become more productive than they otherwise would be and then they could become businesses that would drive more production of more complex machines, eventually ball bearings would be needed. Some business would produce a machine that used ball bearings but eventually there would be a better, cheaper supplier in the market, who'd produce ball bearings in a more efficient, less costly manner.

      --

      As to rudimentary businesses, of-course people had some trade before capitalism, no question. But capitalism became the main factor in the real push towards industrialization, and that's what really turned the economy into a much more productive one, so majority of people stopped being farmers, hunters, gatherers, fishers altogether, those professions became much more efficient with industrialization providing the machines, tools to allow just a few percent of people to produce enough food for everybody. Capitalism is our most important invention in the last few hundred years.

    39. Re:easy by VAElynx · · Score: 1

      People who take the most business risk are not those who accept salaried positions for jobs that somebody thinks to be necessary to make more profit, it's people who take the risk in terms of putting in their own savings, capital, time and effort into a venture that nobody ever guarantees to be a winner.

      Which is why when a company keels over, the risktakers get golden parachutes, and the employes not taking any risks from their salaried positions get a foot up their arse.

    40. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      Which is why when a company keels over, the risktakers get golden parachutes, and the employes not taking any risks from their salaried positions get a foot up their arse.

      - in most cases if a company dies then there is not much left over for any kind of 'parachute' and while it sucks for the employees, they always got paid. The employees now have to find other jobs, but no employee would stay in a company that didn't pay him his salary every month, while the actual owner / operator of the business has only what is left over after all the bills (including taxes) are paid.

      An employee is only an employee as long as he gets his monthly salary, a business owner has to stay with it until the logical conclusion, which is most often not a good one.

    41. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 0

      They're in the vast minority.

      - yet somehow all the business today is defined by what you call a 'vast minority'. It's not a coincidence, what I mean to say is that it's not random that businesses today are getting all this bad publicity by the elected and unelected government officials, given the fact that the only growing sector of the economy is government. Government profits by vilifying businesses, because businesses pay government's salary and it's much easier to extract that money from businesses by turning the masses (who are mostly employees or unemployed) against all businesses, and the fact that only a tiny proportion of all businesses are somehow benefiting from government ties becomes irrelevant.

    42. Re:easy by dywolf · · Score: 2

      The correct answer is: GET HIM LAID.

      Seriously though. If he's brilliant, he's valuable. No one is perfect, and this concept of we must all get along is nonsense. Never seen a place advocate firing people as much as /. over the dumbest trash.

      People will have conflicts. Some people really really suck at "inter-personal skills", buzzspeak for they dont get along well with other people. Some people make your company tons and tons of money. Sometimes these two people are the same person. That's why the Tom Smykowski's of the world exist in companies. They play it for fun in the movie, and have him be "downsized", but in reality, engineers often need an interpreter in between them and the customer. someone to step in and keep him from telling the customer their artistic vision is stupid, useless drives up the cost of the building (beyond that agreed for already), or that that beam HAS to be there or the building falls down so no I will NOT cut it out whether you think it's an eyesore or not". Customers don't like to be told those things, true or not.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    43. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You obviously never dealt with Steve Jobs or Larry Ellison.

    44. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      0.6% in this example would be a starting point, a first year with actual profits as opposed to losses. If everybody thought exactly like you do, then no businesses would exist at all, because in the first years before 0.6% it achieved, the businesses is actually losing money, not making even 0% profit, not breaking even, losing money.

      That is called investment, something you are unfamiliar with.

    45. Re:easy by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      brilliant business people are the opposite of productive. Jerk in any way shape or form is not needed in any business.

      Tell that to Apple (Jobs) Oracle (Ellison) or dozens of other highly successful companies run by assholes.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    46. Re:easy by wed128 · · Score: 1

      (who are mostly employees or unemployed)

      Is there a third option?

    47. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A 'good' businessman is part PT Barnum and part Blackbeard the pirate, it takes a lot of puffery and cut throat decision making to get a business afloat and frankly, 20 odd years of writing code and jockeying servers really had not prepared me for it.

      As a technical person I was looked at as essential to the success of the company, but it was a bit of a risk to bring me into business meetings since I might quote something out of Alice in Wonderland, identify the immediate failings of our business plan or rant about the need to spend a bunch of money to shore up security before doing anything else... stuff that business-people would rather ignore once that they are in PT Barnum mode

      I ask in all seriousness, why is the PT Barnum mode necessary? Why is it necessary to be a lying weasel in denial of reality?

      The lying weasels are largely in charge, so to interact with them, and be accepted by them, you have to show that you're part of the tribe. I get that part.

      But is there something in business that can only be accomplished by lying to decent folk?,

    48. Re:easy by Homr+Zodyssey · · Score: 2

      FYI, your "fact" that "the only growing sector of the economy is government" Is utter bullshit. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Government jobs have declined nationally since June of 2010 -- Remember because of all the budget cuts. Mean while the private sector has added jobs every month since March of 2010.

      Wanna talk about villification, lets talk about the vilification of Government, instead.

    49. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point being is that they are not employers themselves.

    50. Re:easy by Stiletto · · Score: 2

      - take that for example, should the people who were hired by a successful startup and were promised something in case the company succeeds get more than those, who take more salary upfront?

      What about various Google employees who became millionaires, do you think they were not "productive"? They got pretty wealthy as a result of "options".

      I wouldn't say they were, on average, necessarily more productive than the average tech start-up employee. Getting rich from stock options is basically like winning the lottery. You luck into being one of the first few employees at a company, and your company lucks into being one of ones that happen to make it. Right place at the right time.

      I've met tons of really smart, productive people toiling away for a salary with no equity upside. I've also met tons of really unproductive people who never have to work again simply because they happened to be employee number 19 and their options turned them into millionaires.

    51. Re:easy by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I did not mean them. I meant the growing trend of CEOs making fortunes if they fail or not. See the last several HP CEOs for example.

      Nice that I got modded down and people assumed I was some OWSer.

      Shows I must have touched a nerve.

    52. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 0

      FYI, your "fact" that "the only growing sector of the economy is government" Is utter bullshit.

      - it is a fact. The government is spending more money than any company, the government has more employees than any company, the government has more contractors than any company, the government is entangled in more businesses than any company.

      Government should be vilified, every pay raise anybody in government gets is a pay cut for people in the private sector, because they are paying for those pay raises with taxes paid out of actual production.

      Government today is nearly half of the US economy, government is crowding out ALL of the credit and prevents borrowing for private businesses. Actually it's not only a USA problem, it's a problem around the world. Nobody can get a business loan while governments are in more debt than ever. Just the federal government in USA has 16 Trillion debt on the books. 222Trillion in debt is in unfunded liabilities.

    53. Re:easy by Stiletto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is just anecdotal, but most start-up owners I've worked with were already quite wealthy and/or had a family cushion to fall back on in the event of failure. Sure, they risked some start-up capital, but orders of magnitude less risky than literally putting your life on the line in a dangerous job. I know a guy whose family is quite well-off, who started and failed about 4 or 5 businesses before one finally happened to take off. He could keep spinning the wheel of fortune because he knew that regardless of what happened he wouldn't starve or be homeless. That sure doesn't sound like risk-taking to me.

      That said, I have met a few who had their personal savings and home equity loans on the line if their start-ups failed. That's, for sure, respect-earning balls-out risk. Those guys definitely deserve their returns.

    54. Re:easy by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Several of us have taken this sort of risk, not knowing if you will get paid, at salaried jobs with sometimes well established companies. This risk is not unique to business leaders, ask the workers at the cushy city jobs of Scranton, PA.

      or any of these workers:
      http://www.smh.com.au/national/workers-locked-out-600-jobs-gone-as-1st-fleet-shut-down-20120503-1y04c.html
      http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/22/employees-staffing-agency-shut-down-said-no-one-would-be-paid/
      http://cjonline.com/news/2012-07-21/seneca-business-closes-paychecks-bounce

    55. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      Taking a job with a startup is also risk, so an employee can take a risk for a promise of a greater future payout if (and that's a big IF and in most cases it never materializes), again if the company is successful at some point and the employee stays with it to becoming successful through the good and bad. It doesn't mean that the employee is necessarily more productive than some other employee at another company, however it does mean that the company is becoming successful as a result of the concerted effort and part of the effort is willingness to take a lower paying position as opposed to a better paying one for a prolonged time period.

    56. Re:easy by shiftless · · Score: 0

      So basically a brilliant business person tells other people how to make money for said business person, while taking full credit/full benefit from it while exerting the least amount of time making that happen.

      No, basically you're a moron who can't read. Try brushing up on your reading comprehension skills (and/or your stupid ass attitude) then get back to us.

    57. Re:easy by shiftless · · Score: 0

      That's not being insanely productive. That's being insanely inefficient.

      3 years to get 0.6% return? I think even a bank savings account offers a better rate.

      Yeah, and only a moron would stick money into a savings account rather than investing it in a profitable business. Check back in 10 years and let's see how your shitty savings account is doing compared to my profitable venture.

      No, it's just good old rational self-interest. Again, compare your 0.6% return to infinite return. You'd have to be insanely stupid to choose 0.6%

      What the fuck are you even talking about?

      Business isn't a dirty word. It's just a very stupid word, and smart people have evolved past business. Let other suckers (i.e your friends who are "insanely productive") run businesses, and you just enjoy the fruits of their labour.

      Why in the world would I do that?

      No, people are on the right side of it. People don't have to try to jump off a bridge themselves to know it's a stupid idea. They THINK before they act. Logical thinking dictates that it is better to not start a business at all, so most people don't.

      Oh. I get it now. Basically, you're a failure in life who will never accomplish anything worthwhile or notable. You'll spend your life grinding away as a slave for someone else, getting thrown a bone once in a while if you're lucky, and maybe leave some screaming brat heirs to take up your spot in the assembly line when you finally die.

      Get back to work, peon.

    58. Re:easy by shiftless · · Score: 1

      Also, "planning and thinking ahead", something most Americans are seemingly incapable of.

    59. Re:easy by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 1

      That depends, do you see PT Barnum as a 'lying weasel' or the most successful entrepreneur of his age?

      You and I might know that there is never enough bandwidth... but try explaining to an accountant, stock analyst or other such ROI-based thinker that they should spend a few billion on an international, built from the ground up, communications network. It is a hard sale...

      However, get Mr Crowe to float an article in Wired magazine about what it would take to deliver a retina-resolution immersive environment to tens of millions of users and BANG, Level3 was the darling of its era (and still alive today at 1% of it peak stock value)

      So there you go, the planet's biggest, baddest network was funded on PT Barnum-like premises... Was that a bad thing? Do you like leasing 10GB Ethernet links for the same cost of a T3 under ATT's reign? Could a bad-ass engineer in a white shirt, clip-on tie and pocket protector have done a better job of it?

      So yeah, we definitely need the PT Barnums, in my mind the issue is communicating to BOTH sides that they really do need each other

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    60. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 2

      I have written extensively on this phenomena, it is the result of the money pyramid that is being executed by the Federal reserve and the government, it's about inflation and artificially low interest rates. Low interest rates for government bonds prevent competition from the private sector bonds so few companies end up paying dividends. This, coupled with various bail outs and 'stimulus' packages turns the equity market into a casino, people are not looking to gain by participating in a successful business, so they are not looking for dividend payments (and it's nearly impossible to get anything from dividends anyway, given the huge inflation that is proportionate to the real interest rates, which are suppressed), thus basically people are not treating stocks and bonds as investments but instead are treating them as a roulette table in a casino. Put on black, put on red, wait a round, change the bets, hope for a big pay off.

      Couple that with inheritance taxes (which destroy family businesses and promote faceless corporations), couple that with regulations that help monopolies and destroy competition, couple that with taxes that also help monopolies and large companies and prevent smaller companies from succeeding, couple that with regulatiosn around becoming a public company, so prevent new companies from raising capital in IPO before actually becoming profitable, eventually you are getting a system where large companies are very large and small companies are too small for most investors.

      So what happens then is that large companies are ran by a board of directors that doesn't actually care about most 'investors', because they are not investors, they are gamblers and it's a 2 way street. Basically the monitory and fiscal policy that is set by government destroyed the viable real economy in USA and most of Europe and really hurt Japan as well. In these conditions the big companies are really big and can allocate huge sums of money towards the top and as bribes to the political elite, they don't have to compete, so they don't have to be efficient.

    61. Re:easy by operagost · · Score: 1

      Mcgrew, you stepped in it this time. So you're saying that it's more laudable to wager your life and health for money than your reputation, money, and possessions for money? To put it another way, if you go down this path then we start sounding like the "four Yorkshiremen" bit and only the guy who worked 29 hours a day and was murdered by his parents could possibly be worthy of his wages. Not very Luke 10:7-y.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    62. Re:easy by shiftless · · Score: 1

      Getting rich from stock options is basically like winning the lottery. You luck into being one of the first few employees at a company and your company lucks into being one of ones that happen to make it. Right place at the right time.

      Sorry, no, luck has absolutely nothing to do with it. If you believe in getting rich via "luck" then you will always remain poor. Might as well start buying lottery tickets if that's how you think; at least then you'd have *slightly* better odds of "lucking out" with a win.

    63. Re:easy by shiftless · · Score: 1

      Thus, what the market wants is of little consequence, as a brilliant business person can simply manipulate and shape what the market wants through marketing.

      Which is exactly why no brilliant business person would want a free market. They would rather have the possibility of buying political influence, the possibility of becoming a monopoly, than to not have that possibility at all.

      As a brilliant businessman: you're a moron.

    64. Re:easy by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      - it is a fact. The government is spending more money than any company, the government has more employees than any company, the government has more contractors than any company, the government is entangled in more businesses than any company.

      So, government being bigger than any company means it is the only sector of the economy that is growing?

      Your logic fails. As Homr pointed out, government is *shrinking* while the private sector is *growing*. Manufacturing is *growing* right now, construction is *growing* right now. These are two sectors of the economy that are growing faster than government. The Health Care sector is growing faster than the government. There are a ton of sectors that are growing faster than government.

      Nobody can get a business loan while governments are in more debt than ever.

      One has little to do with the other. There is plenty of capital available for lending. Plus, I personally know at least three people who have been able to take out business loans in the past two years. You're using hyperbole.

      Stop blaming all problems on the government. No government is perfect, far from it. But the government is not the root of all evil.

      And while you're at it, please stop using falsehoods to support your points. Every time you lie and get called out on it, more people choose todisregard everything you have to say. If you have a message you want to get spread, lying defeats your purpose. So just stop.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    65. Re:easy by shiftless · · Score: 1

      Absolute unabashed bullshit. People have "produced" since before we came down from the trees. The businessman may well get credit for encouraging us as a species to produce more than we individually need (though whether you call that "kudos" or "blame" depends on your take on the current state of the world); but his actual direct role amounts to nothing more than that of a parasite.

      You're a fucking moron. Tell me, was Henry Ford a parasite? How about Sam Walton? Would Ford or Wal-Mart exist today without those two men? Of course not....you dumb ass prick.

    66. Re:easy by shiftless · · Score: 1

      In fact if a businessman can do everything that needs to be done in order to make profit on his own without hiring A SINGLE OTHER PERSON he would do it, he'd make more money if it was possible not to hire anybody at all. If the businessman has enough capital to automate all of the production, then all he needs to do is to buy the machinery and get some contractors to install it, put it into operation, he pays them for the job and he starts producing.

      .....and then he would hire a manager to run the thing.

      You're wrong.

      Only a moron (or a wage slave) sells his own labor.

    67. Re:easy by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      the government itself is a parasite, it produces nothing, it takes from producers, it promises to give to people who didn't produce part of wealth created by the people who do produce.

      The government is not a parasite, it is a symbiote. Go ahead, look up the definition. Government produces transportation infrastructure, it produces legal infrastructure, it produces education, it produces economic stability, I could go on and on and on... all these things are things that businesses use to make profits.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    68. Re:easy by shiftless · · Score: 1

      Have you ever heard a first person account of how Steve Jobs interacted with Andy Herzfeld? Jobs was brutally verbally abusive, and used his ability to intimidate and dominate Herzfeld to create key components of the system that enriched Jobs (and, to a much lesser extent, Herzfeld) without any consideration for how this might harm anyone. Yet everyone considers Jobs a brilliant business person!

      That's right...because he was! And Andy Hertzfeld is a fucking moron. If Steve had not pushed him around, Apple would not exist today.

    69. Re:easy by shiftless · · Score: 0

      What does that have to do with anything?

      Where did you get your brain?

    70. Re:easy by shiftless · · Score: 1

      You should get out more.

    71. Re:easy by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      brilliant business people are the opposite of productive.

      What do you mean by that?

      Jerk in any way shape or form is not needed in any business.

      Steve Jobs was a jerk. Was he really not needed?

    72. Re:easy by pla · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Tell me, was Henry Ford a parasite? How about Sam Walton?

      Henry Ford's biggest fans describe him as "obsessive, dictatorial, abusive and utterly without conscience". He built an empire on the backs (and not infrequently, the blood) of his workers.

      And Sam Walton? Seriously, you want to use a guy who built such a great empire that towns go to frickin' court to keep it out, as a role model of what businessmen can do for us?


      You're a fucking moron.

      ...Says the guy who made my own point far, far more poignantly than did I. So in that regard, I guess you did one-up me. Thanks ,dude! :D

    73. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      A government is a parasite on the economy, given a choice today between the government that exists and no government at all, no government at all would provide much better results. Government shouldn't be producing transportation infrastructure by the way, nor any other infrastructure, government shouldn't be in businesses of any kind.

      Government should be a system that preserves most freedoms in the market, protects individual liberties thus assuring a level playing field. That should be the role of government in a functioning Republic, not any type of infrastructure, wealth redistribution and militarism. Protecting individual liberties comes at a price, thus government should be able to collect taxes based on consumption but not on production, thus income taxes, corporate, payroll, death, dividend, capital gains taxes are all bad for the economy, they reduce amount of productivity. Consumption taxes on the other hand only affect usage, consumption, leisure but not productivity and not individual freedoms. Consumption taxes allow people to avoid paying for government by modifying behavior, work related taxes do not, work, production, income related taxes require people to actively submit to the rule of government, which turns the purpose of government around from being protector of liberties to being a ruler of people.

    74. Re:easy by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      But capitalism became the main factor in the real push towards industrialization

      This is false. The push towards industrialization was driven by demand for cheaply produced goods. Capitalism was a means towards an end, not a driving factor wrt industrialization.

      ...industrialization, and that's what really turned the economy into a much more productive one, so majority of people stopped being farmers, hunters, gatherers, fishers altogether,

      Most people weren't food producers prior to industrialization, you have a very romanticized view of pre-industrial society. Most people were tradesmen or laborers. Specialization has existed far longer than industrialization.

      I think you have a very limited, and often incorrect, understanding of economic history.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    75. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should read that again, it's not about selling your own labour, it's about achieving efficiency by not having human labour do the production but instead automating production away. A successful business does not have to hire employees, it does so because there are not enough automated solutions for all things that must be done.

      In a more realistic scenario a successful business can be built with automation and contractors and without employees and this has nothing to do with "selling your own labour".

    76. Re:easy by dev.null.matt · · Score: 1

      - in most cases if a company dies then there is not much left over for any kind of 'parachute' and while it sucks for the employees, they always got paid.

      This really is not true. Take for example the fallout of Enron. Most the people that had Enron stock in their retirement funds lost the majority of its value (out of the $2 billion owed them, they were able to sue for $85 million). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal#Employees_and_shareholders

    77. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      If a company doesn't pay your the salary that it owes you for a month of work you are not obligated to stay there. At most you are going to lose that month of work (if you are not silly enough to stay beyond that one month if they are not paying).

      This is absolutely different from starting a business and risking your savings and credit, not just your time.

    78. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      As I said: "in most cases".

      Can you understand that? Majority of businesses are not Enron, why is this so difficult to comprehend? There are literally millions of businesses just in USA alone, how many of them are size of Enron and how many can afford a 'golden parachute'? Do you think that your local restaurant, a gas station, your local mechanic, even a local cement company (if there is a local one where you are) can afford a 'golden parachute', especially if it goes under? When MOST businesses fail (and I don't know how to make the word "most" any more accessible to you here), there is not much left after all the debts and various taxes and fees, including various legal fees are paid.

    79. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      So, government being bigger than any company means it is the only sector of the economy that is growing?

      - USA government is nearly 50% of economy. If it's not growing in one particular day at the same rate that it is growing in the overall sense, over years, then it doesn't change the fact.

      Just the Federal government in USA has expanded its balance sheet by 5 Trillion dollars over 4 years. Apple market cap is 638 Billion in total and that's the largest company (in terms of market capitalization).

      You don't like the facts?

      Here is a page on the growth of government, I'd quote it here, but it's too large, it has data from 1934 until now and into the projected future (to 2015). Yes, government is the largest growing sector.

      As to manufacturing - in USA manufacturing is shrinking, not growing. The pathetic little bit of growth that registered in the last 2 months is in assembling, not manufacturing, they don't grow manufacturing in USA and assembly is not the same thing.

      Yes, it's true, the service sector is growing in USA, that's just like government, it adds to the trade deficit and worsens the economic conditions and it lives on the promise of government bail outs and stimulus (well, I consider the Federal reserve to be an arm of the government).

    80. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Horatio Alger, is that you?

      Your math sucks.

      Investment has always been pretty speculative, so it's easy to pick on. It also involves "real" wealth -- the kind you nor I will ever have. You can look at Taleb as being a dumbed-down version of Mandelbrot (the fractal guy) and his work on market analysis.

      You might also check out what these guys [pdf] discovered about CEO talent.

      If you could learn how to succeed from reading a book, or listening to a motivational speaker, then everyone would be successful -- meaning no one would be. If it were some innate ability like IQ, then 'success' would follow a similar distribution pattern. This is not observed.

      You live in a world that is chaotic, from top to bottom. It's like weather systems, except the laws aren't immutable. You can't predict weather with any certainty, how can you claim to have a formula for success? What could that be based on, if not sappy-headed romanticism?

      Anonymous because otherwise I might be in danger of reading more of the mental vacuities that you dribble onto your keyboard.

    81. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Your "definition" doesn't cut it at all. Workers don't produce out of nowhere, they have to be hired and told what to do and before they can be hired there has to be a case made to hire them, savings have to be allocated to hire them, tools have to be acquired so that the workers can be productive. Throw a bunch of 'workers' together without any purpose, capital, tools and management and see how far that takes you in terms of productivity."

      Sadly this is a very 19th century view of the world that is sadly still popular in america. If you actually take a look around and start questioning for instance why you have a zillion fast food restaurants and whether this is 'wealth creation' or 'make work for the glorious wage caste' you might start having second thoughts and ask if this is really what many millions of people are made to do because their is a "business case" for their being "hired". Much human talent goes completely wasted in capitalist society because for profit exchange is paramount but few rarely ask questions about whether these organizations are positive or a net drag on the wellbeing of society as a whole.

      If you look at modern economies they are often nothing like this idealized view, many businesses don't create wealth they create busywork for a population that must work to live for their rich paymasters or starve because of questionable legal political foundations by which the system operates. There are entire organizations dedicated to anti-wealth creation (wealth capture) and value transference which are very successful.

    82. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and excuse me for misspelling 'monetary' so terribly.

    83. Re:easy by znrt · · Score: 0

      hard loling here :D

    84. Re:easy by znrt · · Score: 0

      Government today is nearly half of the US economy, government is crowding out ALL of the credit and prevents borrowing for private businesses.

      dunno in usa, but in europe governments are huge dumps of public property into private hands. and I believe you greatly underestimate how much of that public debt is actually private profit.

    85. Re:easy by znrt · · Score: 0

      FTF/.
      by Brilliant Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 27, @02:03PM (#41480183)

    86. Re:easy by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Yes, because my savings and credit will be in great shape after I work somewhere for a month without pay. The business owner is taking less of a risk, because he is driving the bus.

    87. Re:easy by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      towns go to frickin' court to keep it out

      Towns obviously don't. Town governments, mostly controlled by the incumbent retail businesses that WalMart threatens with their superior business model, do. They spend the townspeoples' money against their own interests.

      Of course, if there's a town where WalMart moved in and nobody showed up to shop, then I'm probably wrong.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    88. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      Capitalism was a means towards an end, not a driving factor wrt industrialization.

      - capitalism was the catalyst necessary to achieve efficiencies, because capitalism provided the necessary savings that were used as investment to acquire tools necessary to automate production, investment necessary to hire and train skilled employees, etc.

      Most people weren't food producers prior to industrialization, you have a very romanticized view of pre-industrial society. Most people were tradesmen or laborers. Specialization has existed far longer than industrialization.

      - most people were producing food around the world, I said that industrialization allowed the economy to gain efficiencies necessary to shift most people from food production to something else, I didn't talk about any specific locality. Today farming is 1.2% of the reported GDP of USA and 6.1% of the reported world GDP.

      OTOH 300 years ago most of workforce was occupied in farming and farming related activities. (open that link and scroll a page down for actual statistics).

      --

      Of-course specialization existed longer than industrialization and farmers hired unskilled labour, that's true. But it doesn't change the fact that it took capitalism and industrialization to move the numbers (percentage of farming as of the entire economy) from high double digits into 6% today and this happened over the last 200 years.

    89. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      While you, as a single worker, may lose a month of your time, you are not actually risking your credit. Are you so destitute that you cannot afford to live 1 months without getting paid? Somebody who hires other people has to pay them, if he doesn't he'll lose the workers but also he may have a number of lawsuits on his hands. If he is not paying the bills, he is definitely going to lose much more than any individual worker in that business venture. First in line for bankruptcy liquidation are the creditors and workers are also in that list much before the business owner.

    90. Re:easy by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      wtf are you even talking about? despite considering myself a liberal and in general being able to see where even the occupy folks are coming from, i've never thought of a business as a bad thing.

      i mean really, get outside your current circle of friends / literature. the average person has no idea where you are coming from.

    91. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      I don't know what exactly you mean by that, but governments around the world are destroying the economies and currencies to prop up certain interests, that are of-course private.

      As to the debt, the 222 Trillion is mostly SS, public pensions and Medicare. The unfunded part of it means that to pay all of that taxes have to be raised from the future (or this) generation of workers, but of-course nobody can pay that type of money in taxes. Even the reported US GDP is 16 Trillion, 222 to be paid to beneficiaries is impossible from every perspective.

      How much of it is private profit? Well, every dollar that was paid in taxes over the years was either paid to somebody as a benefit or it was spent on various government related projects, so you can say that 222 Trillion was spent. Who exactly got that money over the years? Military, various so called 'infrastructure' projects, all sorts of pork type of spending, it's all stuff that government isn't supposed to be doing in the first place (at least if we are talking about USA).

    92. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      the average person has no idea where you are coming from.

      I am not even going to use an 'average person' example, here are some 'above average' (I guess) people, they are DNC elected delegates.

    93. Re:easy by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      The government is spending more money than any company, the government has more employees than any company

      it's current size has no bearing on whether it's "growing faster". you know the difference right?

      Government should be vilified, every pay raise anybody in government gets is a pay cut for people in the private sector, because they are paying for those pay raises with taxes paid out of actual production.

      you are a moron to make blanket statements like that. my spouse is a government employee and has had her pay and benefits cut repeatedly over the last 5 years, and been forced to part-time work where she no longer receives health benefits.

      govt is jut like big business. some people are milking the system and making out like bandits, but that's the 1%.

    94. Re:easy by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      gee, let's comb the internet for videos, etc. that support our point. after all, if a video exists showing some people thinking a particular way, it must mean that everyone thinks that way, right?

      now, it would be impossible for me to find information that shows a democrat supporting business right?

      sheesh.

    95. Re:easy by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, no, luck has absolutely nothing to do with it. If you believe in getting rich via "luck" then you will always remain poor.

      no matter how smart and productive you are, the success or failure company that you have options in has relatively little to do with you, percentage-wise. sure, you can put some research into things ... does the company have a good idea? are the people you interview with the type that can make it work? but ultimately you are making an educated guess about those things unless you are a clairvoyant that can glean the Ultimate Truth of it all from a day of interviews (hint: you can't).

      in reality, it's going to take months if not more to figure out out that things aren't going to work. so what will you do? hop around jobs every 6 months until you find something you think is a winner? how many times can you do that before startups start looking at your resume and figuring out that you aren't willing to stick it out? how long until you have a house, spouse, or child that prevents you from quitting jobs willy-nilly, or that requires you to have decent health insurance?

    96. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you know the difference right?

      - I replied to a similar comment already. Government is growing all the time, but it can have small bumps in growth, they are irrelevant to the overall trend.

      As to your spouse and the rest of that nonsense: the highest average salaries are in and around Washington DC, the highest average house prices are around Washington DC.

      Gov't is not a business, a business has to win the customers by providing them with something they actually want to acquire VOLUNTARILY, this has nothing to do with government and what it does, nothing is voluntary when it comes to gov't. AFAIC your spouse and the rest of the government workers should be fired and find productive jobs in the private sector. Given the growth of gov't the private sector is being destroyed by that very growth, so it's not likely that it will happen before the dollar crisis.

    97. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What capitalist society?

    98. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (who are mostly employees or unemployed)

      Is there a third option?

      Yes. There are people amongst the masses who start up small businesses.

    99. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First of all, there are most assuredly less government employees now than at any point during the Bush Presidency. Citation Here.

      So, obviously that additional spending isn't going into an increase in the number of employees.

      Second, government employees have not gotten a raise in several years, courtesy Obama, so you don't need to rattle your spear on that front either.

      That extra spending is likely going to contracts and subsidies - no politician will touch those because cutting is all well and good "as long as it's not cutting spending in my state". The only Presidential candidate who looked like he was going to do something about that didn't win the Republican primary.

      And as far as vilifying government pay raises: let's use judges as an example. You effectively need to be a lawyer to become a judge. If you don't at least *approach* competitive wages, who will we get as judges? People who couldn't hack it as lawyers, people who want the power for their agenda / axe to grind, and people who intend to supplement the paycheck with bribes. So yes, government employees *should* get raises, lest you want the weakest members of our society in the positions to affect real change.

    100. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, or have him head up development of Firefox or Ruby on Rails or OpenBSD or...

      - T

    101. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      brilliant business people

      OXYMORON!

    102. Re:easy by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      Stop talking out of your butt.

      Sure, the best general in the world can't win a battle on his own.

      But the soldiers are pretty unlikely to win without one.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    103. Re:easy by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      FYI, your "fact" that "the only growing sector of the economy is government" Is utter bullshit.

      - it is a fact. The government is spending more money than any company, the government has more employees than any company, the government has more contractors than any company, the government is entangled in more businesses than any company.

      For it to be a fact, it would have to true not for "any company", but for "all companies added together".

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    104. Re:easy by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I have written extensively on this phenomena

      Indeed you have, mostly under the name roman_mir.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    105. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Government is growing all the time

      Is English your second language, or are you just a troll trying to make people who want a small government look like an idiot? Because if you are actually trying to fight big government, you are doing more harm than good...

    106. Re:easy by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      While you, as a single worker, may lose a month of your time, you are not actually risking your credit.

      Sure you are, if you not getting paid means you can't pay your bills.

      Are you so destitute that you cannot afford to live 1 months without getting paid?

      Yes, this is clearly a ridiculous suggestion, that's why there are no businesses offering "payday loans", a phrase I just made up on the spot.

      Somebody who hires other people has to pay them

      Huh? Above you use the phrase "not getting paid". Clearly that can't happen if he has to pay them.

      if he doesn't

      Can't happen. Because according to authoritative source roman_mir, he has to.

      he'll lose the workers but also he may have a number of lawsuits on his hands.

      No he won't. If he has no seizable assets suing him is throwing good money after bad.

      First in line for bankruptcy liquidation are the creditors and workers are also in that list much before the business owner.

      Depends how the business in incorporated. The owner's personal assets (or those of his wife, cat etc) might well be out of reach.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    107. Re:easy by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      - in most cases if a company dies then there is not much left over for any kind of 'parachute'

      Ah, poor Fred Goodwin. Living in a cardboard box and dreaming that it's a mansion.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    108. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once worked for one, or at least he claimed to be one, in what turned out to be a startup group within the established company.

      Da dude would have 30 minute to 1 hour conferences with workers, criticizing them, setting goals that were IMHO not realistically achievable, and mentioning another coworker as the high level of QA testing he wanted, more or less.

      Well, long story short, I figured whether or not he was actually brilliant, he was messing with people, as I saw it, and later he more or less admitted it.

      He had already admitted to liking to give them a hard time, under the guise of he wouldn't do that if he didn't like someone. Also was heard telling an agency recruiter and agency account manager in plain sight, "let's get six guys in here and pit them against each other".

      Well, I had enough of that, so at some point--at the risk of my job--I played his game back at him. That meant coming in late since he would never have work for me when I came in on time, that meant not sacrificing test quality for rushing (or faking, as another coworker who I was paired with was obviously doing) test results, not falling for his game of trying to get me to compete with another coworker, eventually took a long lunch for an afternoon interview to get another job. Oh yeah, and asking other coworkers if there was work to be done because he would otherwise just let me sit there with no work to do for as long as he felt like it.

      Well, last I checked, he must have been fired or laid off because while we apparently went from test engineer to senior test engineer to test manager at that company, he is a senior test engineer at another company.

      That was also the first time ever I was put in a survival mode on the job, from the stress interview where he complained about not liking certain aspects of another company I had worked for, to having the receptionist yell at me about not starting on my first day of work, to putting up with nearly nine months of being given a hard time.

      You decide for yourselves if you want to tolerate the increased stress level and such working for such a jerk, whether or not he is actually brilliant. As for the jerk I worked for, while he claimed the group was missing some basic stuff he also refused to let the group know because, as he put it, "he didn't want to give away the bank".

      Enough said about that, if you worked for this guy, you know who he is and where he is now. So what should startups do with the brilliant jerk? They should train him in proper management skills and not creating what amounts to a hostile work environment, that's what they should do.

    109. Re:easy by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Many times the Business person(CEO) will bail out and ensure he and his VP buddies get paid. The owners (shareholders) lose their money. No risk to the Business person who doesn't own the company or have anything invested other then his labor and he walks right to the bank, while the investors who actually own the company and tried to get the CEO to make better decisions through non-binding votes lose their money.

      Is this the risk taker (who deserves to make a ton of money) you are talking about?

      Alternatively, if this is a small business, the owner divorces his wife and she takes all the assets. He is then judgement proof and walks away from the old business with a clean slate. His poor employees are left with no paycheck and no one to sue, as are his creditors.

      If he has incorporated he doesn't even have to divorce his wife.

    110. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh. I get it now. Basically, you're a failure in life who will never accomplish anything worthwhile or notable. You'll spend your life grinding away as a slave for someone else, getting thrown a bone once in a while if you're lucky, and maybe leave some screaming brat heirs to take up your spot in the assembly line when you finally die.

      Great argument. You're sure to convince him now!

    111. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Though this is, of course, a form of confirmation bias. The set of worker collectives which have failed are not known widely, if at all.

    112. Re:easy by mjwx · · Score: 1

      I've worked with Brilliant Jerks. They're good at what they do, and they know it. They get shit done. But they also belittle their coworkers, disrupt the work of others, have to have their finger in every pie, are unwilling to delegate things that they don't need to do any more, etc. They like to be the pilot and at the controls at all times. But as a business grows, they cannot be central to every single last project any more. When they are asked to delegate, or find themselves excluded from even a minor project, they throw a hissy fit. You don't "appreciate" them. You "need" them to be involved. You're an ungrateful git because "they" do all the work around here while you slackasses stand around the water cooler and waste time.

      Read the article, this is the opposite of the person they described.

      The article described him as someone who had the respect of his coworkers, someone who passed on knowledge and training and the first to be willing to work OT/holidays.

      The person you described is a Jerk, but not the person in the article... and you get rid of jerks as soon as possible, even if they do the work of 3 juniors, you'll probably get 3 juniors to work better with the team.

      That means he was either 1. seeing twice as many patients as the others in the same amount of time, meaning he was not having as many meaningful patient interactions or more likely 2. ordering unnecessary and expensive tests

      We actually have doctors that are brilliant and fit none of these descriptions. Having universal health care in Oz, number 2 is a non starter as ordering more tests than needed for diagnosis would just expose incompetence or at least inexperience. Number 1 is not necessarily true and tested by the number of successful treatments.

      I had an optical surgeon when I was younger, she was the best in 3 states (about half the country in Australia). There was a waiting list from other optical surgeons to get patients under her knife. When she finally retired, it took 3 surgeons to handle the same number of patients (peadiatric surgeons often did everything from diagnosis to complex surgery). This is by far not the norm, but true brilliance is not the norm.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    113. Re:easy by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Owner/Entrepreneur, I'm guessing...

    114. Re:easy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The whole point of being a brilliant business person is to let others produce for you while taking full credit/full benefit from it while exerting the least amount of time making that happen.

      Well, yes, it's called capitalism. If you think it's wrong, you need to think about creating a better system, which is fine by me, but probably not too popular around here.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    115. Re:easy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      in most cases if a company dies then there is not much left over for any kind of 'parachute' and while it sucks for the employees, they always got paid

      Er, (a) the owners/directors of the business are in the best position to know when the writing is on the wall and extract whatever they can from the business and (b) employees certainly do not always get paid when a company goes bust.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    116. Re:easy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Yes, some people become wealthy by chance, but most people do not, so what's the point there?

      Most people become wealthy by starting off wealthy and having wealthy parents. Self evidently there are exceptions, but the rags-to-riches billionaire is the exception rather than the rule.

      Now, different people have different definitions of wealthy, and I am using it in the sense of "upper middle class, extremely comfortably off and able to finance the best education they can for their children" not "having several billions in the bank".

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    117. Re:easy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      But the government is not the root of all evil.

      No, that would be the love of money.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    118. Re:easy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      despite considering myself a liberal and in general being able to see where even the occupy folks are coming from, i've never thought of a business as a bad thing.

      That means you are a liberal in the classic economic sense of the world, and so in favour of free trade and so on, not the current derogatory "anyone more left wing than me" sense. Apart from in the US (apparently) most actual left wingers are at best equivocal about business, seeing it as a passing unpleasantness on the road from feudalism to socialism.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    119. Re:easy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Couple that with inheritance taxes (which destroy family businesses and promote faceless corporations)

      If you have accumulated wealth, it is based on being a part of society, therefore you should pass most of it back to society on your death. I do not see the problem here. If you were taxed sufficiently during your lifetime, you shouldn't have that much left when you die anyway.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    120. Re:easy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I have written extensively on this phenomena

      Indeed you have, mostly under the name roman_mir.

      Are you sure? He didn't seem to mention taxation being legalised theft based on the threat of force/violence/death like he usually would,

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    121. Re:easy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Another problem of-course is that today 'business' is nearly a dirty word, which is propaganda pushed by the establishment with political power.

      You are, of course, joking. In most of the Western media I come across there is a complete fetishising of business, executive appointments, the value of stocks and shares, the latest mergers and acquisitions, and so on.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    122. Re:easy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      towns go to frickin' court to keep it out

      Towns obviously don't. Town governments, mostly controlled by the incumbent retail businesses that WalMart threatens with their superior business model, do. They spend the townspeoples' money against their own interests.

      Of course, if there's a town where WalMart moved in and nobody showed up to shop, then I'm probably wrong.

      In an economic system based on greed, selfishness, self-interest and short-termism you cannot expect ordinary people to put their principles ahead of their bank balances and boycott places like Walmart.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    123. Re:easy by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      I did RTFA, and the impression I got from it was that while the other doctors respected him for his work, they didn't respect him for his attitude.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    124. Re:easy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Being a brilliant business person is identifying market trends and acting on them. Which means finding out what people want and delivering it to them at prices they can afford. To do this you need to get people with the right skills together on a voluntary basis by offering them compensation that they need to agree with.

      Ah yes, another right wing fantasist who thinks that employers and employees come to the bargaining table on equal terms.

      If it weren't for socialist ideas like legal trades unions and strikes, government unemployment benefit and so on, the average worker would only be able to "volunteer" to choose between slavery and starvation.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    125. Re:easy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You and I might know that there is never enough bandwidth... but try explaining to an accountant, stock analyst or other such ROI-based thinker that they should spend a few billion on an international, built from the ground up, communications network. It is a hard sale...

      Nonsense. If a particular business couldn't generate any profit/ROI from spending "a few billion" on something, it wouldn't spend it. If it could, it would.

      If your business has a negative Return On Investment, it will run out of cash and go bankrupt sooner or later, simple as that. People make decisions based on ROI (rather than because something sounds cool) for that reason.

      If some snake oil salesman persuades them to spend the money, only time will tell whether it was a sensible decision, but at the end of the day their ROI will be objectively quantifiable.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    126. Re:easy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I've worked with Brilliant Jerks. They're good at what they do, and they know it. They get shit done. But they also belittle their coworkers, disrupt the work of others, have to have their finger in every pie, are unwilling to delegate things that they don't need to do any more, etc. They like to be the pilot and at the controls at all times. But as a business grows, they cannot be central to every single last project any more. When they are asked to delegate, or find themselves excluded from even a minor project, they throw a hissy fit. You don't "appreciate" them. You "need" them to be involved. You're an ungrateful git because "they" do all the work around here while you slackasses stand around the water cooler and waste time.

      The reality is that as a business goes from a startup to steady growth over time, you need people who are willing and able to delegate, otherwise they get stretched too thin, whether they want to admit it or not. That doesn't mean everything needs to be delegated, but some things that are essentially following the same steps every time can always be handed to a subordinate with proper training. Brilliant Jerks have a sense that other people cannot be trusted to do the jobs as well as they can, so they are afraid to lose that precious control, and want to do it themselves instead.

      So be ruthless like all "good" businessmen are supposed to be and fire the jerk. Oh no, that only applies to plebs doesn't it? In reality, as long as the company makes enough money, he'll probably get some wanky "consultant" role and come in to dissrupt board meetings from time to time.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    127. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Workers don't produce out of nowhere, they have to be hired and told what to do

      I've always done what I do. When I needed money I found some people to pay for me to do it. I think the only people your statement is true of is the sort who end up in management, you know those with a low natural drive to actually do things.

      Throw a bunch of 'workers' together without any purpose, capital, tools and management and see how far that takes you in terms of productivity.

      Workers forcibly taking over and re-opening closed factories in South America will disagree with you. With no mangers at all, and in fact against the best efforts of managers with insane "business" motivations to stop them from producing, these people are re-opening their factories and producing and selling goods.

      The real business of making what people need and taking their money for it is not exactly rocket science. Take away a bunch of leeches who deliberately obfuscate extremely basic dynamics in order to make it seem as though they are doing something when they aren't and it all becomes quite simple.

    128. Re:easy by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      My point was that for investors to talk of their taking risks entitles them to more money is bogus, since they're risking he lives of their workers for profit. My grandfather died from a preventable workplace "accident"; he died because Purina was too cheap to put doors on an elevator. Two years ago two dozen miners died in Virginia because the owners were too cheap to fix faulty equipment that was supposed to get rid of explosive gasses, despite the fact that the law said that equipment was required to be functional. But the same rich bastards who risk their workers' lives whine about THEIR risk.

    129. Re:easy by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      Someone like that is probably happier as a consultant anyway. Get paid $200 to tell people how to run their business? Brilliant Jerks are great within that role. They can go in, make things better, and then leave. They've improved the company they were hired to help, and while the company is usually better off for their work, they're also happy when they're gone. A CEO told one of my professors, whose full time role is as a consultant, that he likes his consultants "Brilliant, brief, and then gone." Brilliant Jerks are perfect for that.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    130. Re:easy by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      Whoops, meant that as "$200/hour."

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    131. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      most start-up owners I've worked with were already quite wealthy and/or had a family cushion to fall back on in the event of failure.

      - which is a good thing. It proves the point that it takes savings in order to be able to invest. This means that the private sector encourages savings, all while the government encourages spending and more importantly deficit spending. It is a good thing that somebody has a family to be able to survive without actually actively seeking employment while trying to start a business, or is your point that all people must suffer at all times when starting a business?

      Being able to survive without having to go to any sort of public assistance is a positive, not a negative, don't you think the society would be much better off if everybody had savings and could keep trying to start a successful business?

      Is your other point that the people you speak of are not very efficient, starting the most successful venture on the first try? Because trying to start 3-4 businesses before succeeding in one is just an excellent example of a hard working person, who is looking for something that the market would approve of, it's not an example of somebody leeching off society.

      I don't agree with you that a person needs to be absolutely poor in order to become a good businessman or even in order to be a respected businessman, what he needs to be is persistent and successful at some point, so that all that hard work, the attempts at running a business pay off at some point.

    132. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      People who take the most business risk are not those who accept salaried positions for jobs that somebody thinks to be necessary to make more profit, it's people who take the risk in terms of putting in their own savings, capital, time and effort into a venture that nobody ever guarantees to be a winner.

      So you are going on various tangents that have nothing to do with what I said, thus building a big house of straw you'd like to burn down. Yeah, we all know that straw houses burn down easily.

      My many of my ancestors were killed and some just died from various conditions, like hunger and sickness, all of this happened when the new government powers of the former USSR were trying to 'create a new man', I guess by destroying the old man. So I guess it's too bad that not only many older folks but also millions of children were killed in process.

      I have no interest in talking about risks that people take when they accept a job with its conditions and keep working there even if they think the conditions are too hard of too difficult or dangerous. I am interested in talking about people who take a risk with their own lives, savings, time, effort to build new businesses. I am not talking about employees, I am talking about employers, which was the point of the comment you replied to with your strawman.

    133. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      Money is production. Money is the result of productivity, so talking about money as of 'root of all evil' is only meaningful when you are talking about theft, not about productivity. I guess most people who do not understand what money is and how it is actually created may think that 'money is root of all evil', while the reality is that money is what is created by all people every day.

      When you go to work, whatever it is you do, if you are paid for it, it means you likely created something that is greater than the cost of hiring you and keeping you around. If you start your own business, then it's much more obvious. You put in X amount of money, Y amount of time and effort, and after that time passes (maybe 3-6 years of work before you see actual profits), you are actually working to increase the overall wealth in the system. Whatever it is you produce over that time is money but when you finally see an actual profit (money left over after everybody is paid, all the costs are accounted for, including salaries, taxes, purchases, everything), then that is totally new money that you have created, the money that didn't actually exist before. If you are consistently running losses and never end up generating profits and real returns, then you are burning scarce resources, if you generate profits, you are making new wealth, new money. That's the only real money, not the paper that all governments of the world are printing today.

      So if you put it that way, then 'love of money' can no longer be considered as 'root of all evil', it's the opposite, it's the root of all good. It's the root of all goods and services that were created in a search for profits and thus it's the root of all things you consume, it's the root of your salary, it's the root of all taxes that can be extracted from the economy as well.

    134. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      most actual left wingers are at best equivocal about business, seeing it as a passing unpleasantness on the road from feudalism to socialism.

      - to be a 'leftist' really means to be ignorant and stupid, disregard reality, forget all history, and treat actual individual humans with contempt.

    135. Re:easy by schroedingers_hat · · Score: 1

      - it is a fact. The government is spending more money than any company, the government has more employees than any company, the government has more contractors than any company, the government is entangled in more businesses than any company.

      Assuming they are true, none of these things rebut gp's statement.

    136. Re:easy by Stiletto · · Score: 1

      The thread was about "what counts as risk." I'll leave the determination of whether entrepreneurship SHOULD require personal risk to another discussion.

      My point was, many (most?) business owners who claim to be "taking a risk" with their start-up are actually not, comparatively.

    137. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't get it. He's not saying that Ford and Walmart are praiseworthy endeavors - he's saying that they are successful. It doesn't matter if you hate Wal-Mart, it's still amazingly profitable despite your hate.

    138. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      Actually if you look at the thread, my comment was the first to mention risk, and I was very specific about what type of risk, I said (you can check, it's easy, it's HTML after all), I said: BUSINESS risk. Risk of investing and losing on that investment. Risk of investing savings, time, effort and not getting any reward for it. That's business. It was a flamebait by some off-topic person who started on the entire 'risk to life' thing, which had nothing to do with my comment.

      People who start their companies take a risk.

      People who go to war, because a government started one also take a risk.

      Those are as different as people getting hired for dangerous jobs and people starting businesses and taking that risk with their time, money and effort.

      As I already explained in another comment, this is a strawman, this has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

    139. Re:easy by udachny · · Score: 1

      If you have accumulated wealth

      - it means you have produced something useful to the people. How do you think wealth is created? Somebody has to produce something initially to create the wealth, and that's a business.

      it is based on being a part of society

      - that's about as insightful as saying that living is part of Universe. Of-course living is part of Universe, but it's your effort, it's what YOU do with your life is what counts.

      therefore you should pass most of it back to society

      - first of all every business that makes somebody rich is giving to society at the moment when the person is getting rich. By the definition, it's a tautology, for your business to make you rich (absent government intervention), you are producing something that the people want, you are GIVING something to the people that did not have until your business gave it to them. The fact that they are paying for it something is a testament to how useful your product or service they find.

      I do not see the problem here.

      - I can make a bet that you are not somebody who is producing something with his own business. First of all, you would know that business is all about giving to society something it wants, secondly you wouldn't be so cavalier, saying that the entrepreneur must do this or that with their own earnings. It's their money, they can burn it and it's still their money, it's completely moral for them to destroy it or to give it to somebody they wish. If a parent gives his or her children the money that the parent earned, it's their right. If they instead burn the money, it's their right.

      If you were taxed sufficiently during your lifetime, you shouldn't have that much left when you die anyway.

      - so you are saying that Steve Jobs (always a useful example now, that he is dead), should have been taxed sufficiently that by his end of life, he should have had nothing left.

      Well that defines you very well for what you are, a completely ignorant person who thinks that they can tell others how to live their lives, who believes in simple immoral things like theft. I mead what do you call a tax that takes away everything from a person (just by the time they die)? It's theft.

      What incentive would a person have to do anything, to start any business, if they were taxed in a way that would steal all of their money away from them?

      Also you are ignorant on what wealth is. Most people do not hold CASH, their money is IN their business, which means (again, Steve Jobs is a useful example), they own part of their company.

      That's exactly what my point was, as to why the companies are these faceless corporations rather than having most companies being owned by caring businessmen. It's because your ideas are basically implemented in practice. A person dies, then his estate has to pay taxes, if they have possessions, such as companies, the companies will have to be LIQUIDATED (that's why Warren Buffet is so much pro-death tax, his company comes in and buys these businesses at firesale prices after somebody dies, Buffet is a vulture, he feeds on the dead. Well, so is government obviously. Government is a parasite while you are alive and it's a vulture when you die.

      The companies have to be liquidated, the heirs are then left with plenty of money to spend, but they are not running the companies, that's how many companies become 'faceless' and without real direction. That's how generational knowledge about running successful businesses is lost.

    140. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if you put it that way, then 'love of money' can no longer be considered as 'root of all evil', it's the opposite, it's the root of all good.

      Yup, and therefore, people with the most money - the rich, the corporations - are the greatest people. They are an example to follow for the rest of us.

      Rich people buy Ferrari's? Then Ferrari's must be good. Everybody should buy Ferraris
      Rich people buy iPads? iPads must be good. Everybody should buy iPads.
      Rich people buy government power and regulations? Why, government power and regulations must be good things. Everybody should buy government power. So pay your taxes!

    141. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have accumulated wealth

      - it means you have produced something useful to the people.

      That is not the only way it happens. You are conveniently overlooking inheritance. You don't honestly believe that the Hilton sisters created something useful to the people (prior to their porn, of course) do you? They came out of their mother with more wealth than 99.99% of the world's population can ever hope to see in their lives.

    142. Re:easy by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      The doctor who brings in more revenue can also be 3. a specialist who performs expensive procedures. Top surgeons make a lot of money because they're good at what they do, charge top dollar for that thing, and do a lot of it. A medical practice can't be made entirely of people like that; somebody has to do the unglamorous work like routine checkups, but those doctors will never make as much money as the specialists.

    143. Re:easy by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      If it's not growing in one particular day at the same rate that it is growing in the overall sense, over years, then it doesn't change the fact.

      US government has been shrinking for three years. Cherrypick timelines all you want, you're still lying. You claimed it's the fastest-growing sector of the economy, and that's just false. Over the longer timelines you NOW reference, many sectors have grown faster than government. Healthcare. Telecom. Take your pick, there are many.

      As to manufacturing - in USA manufacturing is shrinking, not growing. The pathetic little bit of growth that registered in the last 2 months is in assembling, not manufacturing, they don't grow manufacturing in USA and assembly is not the same thing.

      Now you';re just making shit up to support a point, again. Stop lying. Manufacturing has been growing steadily, albeit slowly, since the end of the nominal recession in 2010, with a brief pause in Jun-Jul of this year.

      Yes, it's true, the service sector is growing in USA, that's just like government, it adds to the trade deficit

      What the hell are you talking about? Service sector growth doesn't add to the trade deficit. I have no idea where you get your "information" from, but you clearly have no fucking idea about economics.

      (well, I consider the Federal reserve to be an arm of the government).

      I see. you choose to deliberately believe something that is false. Extrapolated to everything else you write... makes sense to me.

      I'm done discussing with you, it's a waste of my time. But please stop lying and making claims out of ignorance, it'd be a shame for your idiocy to spread further.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    144. Re:easy by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      - most people were producing food around the world, I said that industrialization allowed the economy to gain efficiencies necessary to shift most people from food production to something else, I didn't talk about any specific locality. Today farming is 1.2% of the reported GDP of USA and 6.1% of the reported world GDP. [wikipedia.org]

      Nothing to do with my point. You're not addressing what the status was pre-industrialization. You're also ignoring mechanization, which has driven gains in yields wrt labor far, far more than industrialization.

      OTOH 300 years ago [google.com] most of workforce was occupied in farming and farming related activities. (open that link and scroll a page down for actual statistics).

      You equate agriculture with food production. They are not equivalent. Read the link you provided... 60% of the economy was based on agriculture... but a significant portion of that agriculture was non-food items (wood production, for example, is agricultural, but wood is obviously not a food item). Furthermore, % of the economy does not equate to % employed in food production.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    145. Re:easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So once again, a real-world contradiction has been shown to your largely farcical "point". Of course, this happens almost as often as demonstrations of you contradicting yourself. You therefore select one of two options, either respond with nonsense (as you did this time) or not respond at all (which you will probably choose after reading this).

      The point remains, though. You claimed that accumulation of wealth is achieved by people who do useful things. There are many, many, examples to the contrary. You then responded (using your sock puppet account, no less - the existence and application of which contradicts some of your other points) by ignoring the fact that you have been contradicted.

    146. Re:easy by jep305 · · Score: 1

      Anyone who drives hard and pushes people to give their best will be considered a jerk by those with lower standards.

      --
      In Reason We Trust
    147. Re:easy by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      Anyone who drives hard and pushes people to give their best will be considered a jerk by those with lower standards.

      That might work for Jobs, But from what I can tell Ellison is quite simply a world-class asshole.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    148. Re:easy by jep305 · · Score: 1

      OK. And your perspective on Ellison is exactly what?

      Like him or not, he's built an amazingly successful company. He did not do that by being what everybody wanted him to be.

      --
      In Reason We Trust
    149. Re:easy by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Government shouldn't be producing transportation infrastructure by the way, nor any other infrastructure, government shouldn't be in businesses of any kind.

      Are you going to tell that to virtually every government in history?

    150. Re:easy by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      My point is that "business risk" doesn't hold a candle to personal risk. There's no reason why a stock market gambler should have a lower tax rate than me.

    151. Re:easy by tibit · · Score: 1

      Natural rubber FTW :)

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
  4. Make him CEO, fire him, rehire him. by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 5, Funny

    Worked for Apple Computer Inc.

    --
    All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    1. Re:Make him CEO, fire him, rehire him. by shimage · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except that in that case the brilliant jerk was the business person. Woz was the brilliant nice guy who created the technology during the startup phase.

    2. Re:Make him CEO, fire him, rehire him. by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      Woz is still "too honest" to qualify as a business-friendly guy. Part of business success is knowing when to say nothing.

    3. Re:Make him CEO, fire him, rehire him. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Facebook took notice.

  5. Why Are They Jerks? by GeneralTurgidson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Some types of autism or personality disorders make people come across as "jerks" to other more extroverted people. If someone is just quiet or short with you, it doesn't necessarily mean they're a jerk.

    1. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1

      RFTA. The jerk in question sure wasn't introverted.

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    2. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Sure it does, it just that they have a medical excuse.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

    4. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by tragedy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Right. Based on reading the article, the author's definition of a "jerk" is someone who doesn't understand that they were just a resource to be used during the founding of the company and then thrown away. Pretty much the worst thing the author lists as something the "brilliant jerk" does is bothering management by assuming they will deign to talk to him. The author is assuming that we all share his implicit understanding that the people who built the company will stay down at the bottom while the company grows and the managers will grow with the company adding more and more layers between them.

    5. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by tragedy · · Score: 1

      If someone is just killing people or eating them, it doesn't necessarily mean they're a serial killer

      Serial just means one after the other. If someone is killing plural "people", then they're a serial killer by definition.

    6. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TL;DR: Maybe I can shed some light on that, as I have been called a "brilliant jerk" and many similar things many times before:
      TL;DR: (If you mod this down because I come across as a jerk, the joke's on you. ;)

      See, I know for a fact, that I am very intelligent, on many different levels.
      Do you notice that feeling of hate inside you?
      Well, no matter if you do, my experience has been, that:
      - Just daring to say that, apparently makes me a giant jerk, that deserves to be hated and insulted.
      - Meanwhile, even remotely hinting that a dumb person might be dumb, or stating that a dumb thing that person did was dumb, apparently is completely out of line and taboo, and makes me an even bigger jerk.
      - Well, at least that is the standpoint pretty much all people I come an contact with, seem to have.

      My only theory, is this:
      I am a very confident person. If somebody calls me stupid or says he's intelligent, that doesn't attack me at all. In fact, I *want* people to tell me when I did something stupid. Because that results in learning and improving. Which is great. And when he is wrong, I know he will be looked down upon for saying such nonsense. So in any case, I have no rational or emotional reason to become angry.
      But most people aren't confident *at all*. They are always just barely on the brink of breaking down and hating themselves. So if you say any even imaginary form of criticism... (Yes, people think to bad of themselves, that they simply hallucinate you attacked them, even if you didn't.) ... which includes making them feel inferior by saying you're intelligent (which they think they're not) ... they think they have to launch some massive defense and counter-attack against evil straw-that-broke-the-camel's-back you. They just can't brush it off. Let alone take it, and make an advantage out of it (by learning and improving).

      To me, this is just so alien, that I simply can't adjust. And honestly, I don't want to either, since I find it deeply wrong.
      I don't think they are inferior, I don't think they are bad. I think the only thing stopping them, is their constantly self-fulfilling prophecy, based on a strong feeling of inferiority. (No, you can't tell them they are great. They will just think you are a sleazy liar, for saying something that you obviously could never mean that way. There is just no way out. :/ )

      I just love when I did something great, and I want to tell the whole world! And everyone thinks I'm just bragging, instead of me giving them a gift of free great insight I worked so hard on, because I like them.

      And the last factor, is that I really can't stand willful ignorance and delusions. Because being that intelligent, it takes my mind only milliseconds, to predict all the ways in which that behavior will ultimately harm me and us all, including them. (E.g. *elections*, or still buying from an evil company.) It makes me angry... the natural reaction to a (social) threat.
      And that is what triggers me criticizing them so often. (Aka "being a jerk".)
      I want them to *see*, and to *improve*! For the sake of us all! Including them. But especially because they *harm me*.
      But they can't even remotely see that chain of cause and effect. Their feeling of inferiority and of being attacked completely blinds them, and they call me a giant jerk.

      Now comes the vicious cycle: The above is very very depressing. It grows a feeling of really loathing humans. So I more and more become an actual jerk, as it bursts out of me too! So they become even more hateful and irrational. So I detest them even more. And so on.

      This went so far for me, that I don't think I can live with "normal" humans anymore. I feel like my mind and often very hard rational thinking is completely different from theirs. Often I even think that maybe I'm the start of a new species. (Whether it's a be

    7. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot: Your live internet guide to argumentative fallacies for over 15 years! Strawman? Oversimplification? Begging the question? Argumentum ad absurdum? We've got 'em all! Enjoy our special this week on false equivalences! Thank you for trying our free sample, posted above!

    8. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 'jerk' in this case is the person who came up with this insulting oversimplification. Fire him.

    9. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Jeng · · Score: 1

      But that is not how it is applied in regards to killers.

      If they kill plural "people" they are a mass murderer.

      If they only kill people who fit a certain criteria (pattern) then they are a serial killer.

      Micky and Malory Knox were mass murderers.

      Dexter is a serial killer.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    10. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I make a dual guillotine that beheads 2 people at once, would I be a parrellel killer?

    11. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by tragedy · · Score: 2

      If they kill plural "people" they are a mass murderer.

      If they kill plural "people" all at once, they are a mass murderer. "just killing people", which is what the original AC wrote, means it's an ongoing thing, which means they're doing it one after the other. Anyone who kills people one after the other is a serial killer. Motive is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if it's because they're a mafia hitman or a psychotic doing it for fun, or they committed one murder then killed a bunch of unrelated people the same way to draw away suspicion.

      Basically, a mass murderer is someone who goes on a rampage, whereas a serial killer is more drawn out. Your fictional examples don't define the terms.

    12. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by tragedy · · Score: 1

      You could try to coin the term. I suspect they'd just call you a mass murderer, however.

    13. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      If they treat you in a certain way that makes them a jerk, they are a jerk. Doesn't matter if they have a disorder or not.

      Stopping at a green light doesn't make up for the red I burned earlier.

    14. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are many intelligent people in the world, who have plenty of spare "brain cycles" to consider all the ways the world is fucked up.

      But many of those intelligent people instead use those extra brain cycles to solve real-world problems with two excellent outcomes:
      (a) their focus on solving a particular problem allows them to ignore the way the world is fucked up
      (b) they are no longer considered a Jerk because they are using their brain for Good Things, and not for pointing out crap.

      So while I empathize with some of your sentiments, your Jerkiness would go away if you focused on solving an important problem.

      My two cents.

    15. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's particularly irritating is that his definition of Brilliant Jerk doesn't focus on anything jerk-y. And that makes me think that the word Jerk here says more about the writer of the article than about anyone else.

    16. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My new life ambition is to be the first parallel killer :)

    17. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Serial just means one after the other. If someone is killing plural "people", then they're a serial killer by definition.

      Only if they're killing people one after another. If they kill a lot of people all at once, they still aren't a serial killer.

    18. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by tragedy · · Score: 1

      But the original comment said:

      If someone is just killing people or eating them, it doesn't necessarily mean they're a serial killer

      They didn't say "if someone has killed people", they said "is ... killing people" which means it's ongoing. Hence serial killer.

    19. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Sorry, you've been beaten to the punch by at least a few thousand years by the Romans and probably plenty of other cultures that have considered executions a form of public entertainment for which you should get... creative.

    20. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. Right.

    21. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      The author is assuming that we all share his implicit understanding that the people who built the company will stay down at the bottom while the company grows and the managers will grow with the company adding more and more layers between them.

      Well, maybe he's not cut out for IT management - or indeed any kind of management, either skill or will. Not with people and not with the drawing up plans and handing over the implementation to others. He might still be a brilliant low-level tech person, but he is still just one man. How would you possibly avoid the distance increasing? And a lot of people don't cope well going from being a big fish in a small pond to being a small fish in a big pond. I know I'd hate if all I did was Powerpoints with resource allocations and feature roadmaps and progress reports all day, I need to tweak some bits on a server. I'd probably spin myself off into some corner of the R&D department to come up with brilliant new features or just cash the stock and leave, I don't see myself riding that rocket up to CIO. I wouldn't be happy there and neither would the company.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    22. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thumbs up to /. for another trollish article, or if you look at it another way, a demonstration of everything that is wrong with modern American values. Nothing much more than the grown up version of playground bullying, make the nerdy kid do all our homework then steal his lunch money.

    23. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by tragedy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But why is direct management of other people the only thing that's important? And who says that the brilliant person in question isn't good at drawing up plans and handing over the implementation to others. The author of the article seems to simply think that the natural place for "low-level tech person[s]" as you call the people who did all the work to make the company a success, is at the bottom. Is it just stupid sentimentalism for a company to pay its dues to the people without whom there wouldn't even _be_ a company?

      How would you possibly avoid the distance increasing?

      By not considering every middle managing paper pusher the company later hires (with the money that they wouldn't even have without the people who built it up to start with) to be more important. By promoting them even if the promotion doesn't involve a block of people being under them in an org chart?

      Maybe I'm just a little bitter because I've been in a similar situation. I worked essentially for free at first for a company that simply couldn't have existed without me (and my fellow "low level tech person[s]") because virtually all it consisted of was us. The promise was always of the company succeeding and us sharing in that success. When they actually got the large investment they were after they went on a hiring spree. They hired marketing people and sales people and HR people and all kinds of management all of whom were pretty much above us as well as more "low level tech person[s]" like us. All of us who started with the company and had once been nearly the entire workforce were now only a small percentage of the employees, and not a single one of us ever got promoted. There were internal job postings and we applied for management positions and even just other jobs in the company we were perfectly qualified for, but everything went to outside hires or even to other people with our job descriptions who were hired later. I was far less jaded at the time and didn't really see what was going on very clearly. Now I think that our founders just didn't have any respect for us because we'd worked so hard for them for so little at the start.

      In the end, I could see that the company was doomed in the long run. I left for an opportunity with another small startup. I waited until the day of my performance review and gave my notice to my supervisor right after it. I still remember how enthusiastically he told me that he'd managed to get me a raise up to the level of the other people with my job description who were hired after me.

      Not too long after I left, they went under and sold off what was left to another company. It wasn't much of a surprise to me that they couldn't sustain themselves as a company with more than twice as many administrators and managers than actual productive employees.

      In any case, I've been in the position of being actively marginalized in a growing company that I felt owed me at least a chance to grow with it. It wasn't much fun for me, and it wasn't what I would call good business practice either considering the effect it had on morale.

    24. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      >The promise was always of the company succeeding and us sharing in that success.

      It's never a promise unless it's a contract. I learned that the hard way myself. You learned something very valuable that cost me about $30k to learn.

    25. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Some types of autism or personality disorders make people come across as "jerks" to other more extroverted people. If someone is just quiet or short with you, it doesn't necessarily mean they're a jerk.

      No one ever mistook being quiet or introverted for being a jerk. In fact, it is almost the definition of a jerk that they are extrovert and annoying. Autistic people may come across (unfairly or not) as weird, but that is not the same thing at all.

      The jerks at school were more likely to be the jock than nerd type, in High School Musical terms.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    26. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I worked essentially for free at first for a company that simply couldn't have existed without me (and my fellow "low level tech person[s]") because virtually all it consisted of was us. The promise was always of the company succeeding and us sharing in that success.

      No offence, but they fucking saw you coming.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    27. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You'd have thought that on slashdot of all places the meaning of the word "serial" would be obvious enough.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    28. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Yeah, got that.

    29. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Well, as I said. I was a lot less jaded then.

    30. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason is irrelevant.

    31. Re:Why Are They Jerks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing with intelligent people, is that the least thing they will ever do, is be ignorant.

      Also, no, there is nothing on this world that can distract me enough. 24/7.
      And another problem is that you falsely assume, we would give a shit about retards considering me a "jerk". In particular, it even is my outspoken goal, to give them as little as possible. Because I focus on giving to those who *deserve* is. They don't. They only deserve to be punished.

  6. Article has it Right by MyLongNickName · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article has it right

    "So what’s the right answer? Get rid of the Brilliant Jerk as fast as you possibly can"

    First, the brilliant jerk isn't as brilliant as he or others think he is. Often, it is right after your superstar leaves that people covering his work find out about the shortcuts he took.

    Second, his positive contribution will stay stead, but his negative contribution will grow proportionally to the size of your company and the number of people he works with.

    Third, the longer he stays the bigger headache it will be to get rid of him.

    Fourth, be sure he realy is a jerk and cannot be reasoned with.

    --
    See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    1. Re:Article has it Right by postbigbang · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sometimes the best tactic is to let the creative-if-blustering types do what they do well: create and bluster, but in the back room. Serial entrepreneurs often do well because they have the ego needed to push thru ideas into really profitable businesses, with a few dead ones along the way. No one is perfect.

      High collaboration and creativity is very productive, and productivity is helpful for rapid growth. Then move the blusterers out into new ideas, where they can regenerate. Some people are really good at cash-cow business, while others know how to start low and do rapid business building. Some will grow with a business, others need new challenges. It's not a talent easily given to aphorisms. And sometimes, it's not pretty.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    2. Re:Article has it Right by Mozai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I worry that people labelled as "the Brilliant Jerk" are sometimes "the guy smarter than me who doesn't go along with what I propose."

    3. Re:Article has it Right by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Interesting

      First, the brilliant jerk isn't as brilliant as he or others think he is. Often, it is right after your superstar leaves that people covering his work find out about the shortcuts he took.

      I'm sure it's not true in every case, but I've definitely seen cases of this.

      Had a co-worker years ago who could crank out huge volumes of code, so management loved him.

      The problem was, his code was absolutely un-maintainable crap, and he didn't like to go back and fix things. So first you needed to cajole him for a long time to even do it, and then he would do a half-assed job and go back to whatever he was finding fun at the moment.

      He didn't follow any procedures, didn't bother with testing, documentation, or sometimes even putting his code in the the version control stuff -- which meant he didn't always even had the version he was trying to fix as it had long since been updated in place. In some cases, he created more work for the people around him than the value of his code.

      In a lot of ways, I always found him to be a liability, since he refused to adhere to even the most basic standards we had.

      But, to the best of my knowledge, he's still there writing large volumes of lousy code, and I'm not there any more. So clearly how I perceived things had nothing to do with how management did.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:Article has it Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make sure his "shortcuts" are not the "K.I.S.S" type, designed so that people can actually understand and cover for him in his absence.

      The overworked "nice" hero , always working late, doing a horrible, complex, look at me job that no one else can understand, is no better.

    5. Re:Article has it Right by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I worry that people labelled as "the Brilliant Jerk" are sometimes "the guy smarter than me who doesn't go along with what I propose."

      +1 on that thought. Especially if what that person proposes involves me doing all the implementation.

    6. Re:Article has it Right by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      The problem is that sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't.

    7. Re:Article has it Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately this is the thought process of the guy, so when you are trying to explain the reasons why the direction needs to change he is busy thinking about all the reasons his ideas are right instead of being flexible.

    8. Re:Article has it Right by TheCarp · · Score: 2

      Not just that....

      I have a friend who was telling me about an issue at his workplace. They brought in a jerk... possibly not a "brilliant one" but...it hardly matters....

      Because his being a jerk actually prompted the two really brilliant researchers who did the core development of their product line leave....

      I don't care how brilliant this guy is.... I have a hard time swallowing that he could be so brilliant as to be worth the damage caused by pushing key people out the door.... unless pushing them out the door was the plan... which... while I wont rule out ever being the right move, but, seems unlikely to be.

      As a strong tech geek, I tend to get along with the jerks (as long as I don't report to them), but.... that doesn't mean I think they are healthy for the organization. They increase the drama, and decrease overall morale... which makes the place less enjoyable to work at, and makes other places look more attractive.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    9. Re:Article has it Right by shentino · · Score: 1

      You were not the boss, so your opinion really didn't mean shit.

      Unfortunately the guy above you in the chain of command is always right in the practical sense that saying otherwise can cost you your job and, whether or not the ship hits an iceberg and sinks, you'll drown faster if you get thrown off the plank for mutiny.

    10. Re:Article has it Right by ebusinessmedia1 · · Score: 1

      And all too often those brilliant jerks end up in management positions, where they wreak even more havoc. The sheer lack of real management smarts and enlightened sensitivities in the tech sector, is stunning. Other sectors have this problem as well, but in the tech sector it's more alarming because most techies are fairly well educated. You'd think that would make a difference, but it doesn't.

    11. Re:Article has it Right by nharmon · · Score: 2

      I was sort of getting that vibe from the article as well. Maybe the doctor in question had legitimate reasons for "why the group couldnâ(TM)t do some things and shouldnâ(TM)t do others". But the non-doctors, like the author for example, do not understand the reasons and as a result see this as being a jerk.

    12. Re:Article has it Right by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You were not the boss, so your opinion really didn't mean shit.

      In that context, I absolutely agree ... that doesn't change the fact that his code was utter crap.

      Some places are just more willing to sell utter crap if it makes the quarter.

      But an amazing amount of companies can't always correlate long-term costs associated with a project and the like.

      I've seen projects at many places where once the sales guys have cleared their cheque, nobody keeps tabs on what it really cost to deliver what was sold. And I know for a fact that in many places, it ended up costing more in the long run than the revenue.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    13. Re:Article has it Right by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have been the jerk and karma has certainly made me pay

      About 20 years ago I was working on GIS for a local government. The challenge was to present our Pavement Management System data (from a beloved DG Mini) on our spiffy new GIS system. I proposed using dynamic segmentation (new concept in ArcInfo 6) and set about learning what needed to be done. My boss assigned his bestest buddy to ride along on this and even split the coding responsibilities down the middle... The bestest buddy decided to work in awk and sed instead of the software tools that were part of ArcInfo... Pissed me off so much that I kept all documentation in my head and set about finding another job. When I left, it took them about three years to get back on track...

      As luck would have it, I walked into a new job where people had been pulling the same stunt for the last decade. Every day of my life was debugging undocumented code and re-creating wheels. These days I invest a lot of time into cross training, documentation and making certain that my developers are happy

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    14. Re:Article has it Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Been there, seen this, still have the garbage grit spit and duct tape apps strewn around the orginization. The only solution is to expose them ASAP to help walk them out the door.

    15. Re:Article has it Right by Jeng · · Score: 2

      Intelligence and knowledge are two different things.

      Just because someone is smart, that doesn't mean they are right.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    16. Re:Article has it Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are dead-on correct.
      Anyone who survives in tech more than ten years in the real world comes to understand that maintainable is the most important thing.

      From way, way back there was a brilliant piece of coding in WordStar - all hand-tuned assembler, fantastic capabilities in 64k of ram.
      Completely unmaintainable code base. Had to be abandoned.

      There are many, many other examples.

    17. Re:Article has it Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually, if he is brilliant, your relative lack of intelligence means you lack the *exact* skill set to judge someone's intelligence. And that is the crux.
      We can't ever tell if he *is* more brilliant than we are able to comprehend. By definition.

      In light of this and the general Dunning-Kruger effect, I adapted that saying:
      "Any sufficiently advanced level of intelligence
      is indistinguishable from stupidity."

      That is true even for the most brilliant person, but certainly for the dumbest ones.
      So hold your horses.

      Also, look at you being a real jerk in your comment too. (And me looking like a jerk to you too, even though I actually just want to enlighten your mind. [Which, sadly, you will just dismiss as being "condescending", because you are so incredibly insecure.])
      The irony... ^^

    18. Re:Article has it Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bing! Bing! Bing!

      We have a winner. Basically in this case, the brilliant jerk is the person who knows how to get the important things done quickly. Once the company has hired a bunch of people that are not very good or are more concerned with "doing it right" than doing it, they are on a downward spiral. They will either turn into a big stogy business unable to get anything done, and then go out of business. Or they will just go straight out of business.

      The best thing to do in this case is to fire the jerk. Tell him to liquidate his equity sooner rather than later, run the company into the ground, and look for a job in a big company where everyone is treated like cogs in a big machine. Then everyone will be happy.

    19. Re:Article has it Right by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've seen projects at many places where once the sales guys have cleared their cheque, nobody keeps tabs on what it really cost to deliver what was sold. And I know for a fact that in many places, it ended up costing more in the long run than the revenue.

      Most places are like this, but even if they put in a control like "Check Clearance + 90 days", the salespeople can adjust things so that they don't go south for 90 days. Remember, good sales people are master manipulators. Sales will always maximize its own benefits, if you try to rein them in, great sales people will just leave for another company that pays better. (If we follow the article's author's advice, we'd just fire all those pesky sales people, since they're in it for themselves, not the good of the company)

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    20. Re:Article has it Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Third, the longer he stays the bigger headache it will be to get rid of him?

      I disagree. If you fire him, he'll just tell you to "suck it and have a nice life."

    21. Re:Article has it Right by Kagato · · Score: 1

      I would concur. Though I think most companies let jerks of all types stay on, brilliant or not. Companies aren't wired for confrontation. Getting rid of jerks is usually messy. Jerks are usually good about getting their work done, often at the expense of other team members. From that stand point I think they are a net negative.

    22. Re:Article has it Right by lightknight · · Score: 1

      Indeed. The problem I've faced myself in the workplace is when 1.) I know that the idea being fielded is a terrible (not bad, but terrible) idea, and 2.) I have to weigh being polite / nice / sticking to social norms against the possibility of not pushing back hard enough. The problem is one of giving the appearance of a dictator (only my way will work) as opposed to a general guide (sure, we can try to make a clone of MS Office using internal resources, but I really think you want to give this idea a miss).

      The more bad ideas I encounter on a daily basis, typically the worse I get (it's like playing dodge ball on an emotional level). The worst place to be, of course, is in the middle of a shitstorm, where at all hours the bad ideas are festering and procreating, and there is nothing I can do, but sit there, and listen to criminal level stupidity.

      --
      I am John Hurt.
    23. Re:Article has it Right by Kijori · · Score: 2

      The article has it right

      "So what’s the right answer? Get rid of the Brilliant Jerk as fast as you possibly can"

      First, the brilliant jerk isn't as brilliant as he or others think he is. Often, it is right after your superstar leaves that people covering his work find out about the shortcuts he took.

      Second, his positive contribution will stay stead, but his negative contribution will grow proportionally to the size of your company and the number of people he works with.

      Third, the longer he stays the bigger headache it will be to get rid of him.

      Fourth, be sure he realy is a jerk and cannot be reasoned with.

      What you say is perfectly reasonable, but actually the 'Brilliant Jerk' in the article is described as being brilliant. In fact, as far as I can see, he's only described as being brilliant - I'm not really sure where the 'jerk' part comes from at all. The author labels as a jerk the doctor who put more than anyone else into the startup, generated the most revenue and was always the first to help out the others, and why? Apparently because he said that there were things that the company shouldn't do.

      The article seems to come from the position that the company should always get bigger and always take every opportunity, and that anyone who disagrees with that is a jerk. But every successful company I've worked for has turned down clients and chosen not to pursue opportunities because they recognised that sometimes the downside outweighed the advantages.

      In short, there's nothing in the article that actually makes me think that the highly respected doctor is the one being unreasonable rather than the guy who writes articles calling people jerks for having the temerity to disagree with Cliff Oxford.

    24. Re:Article has it Right by evil_aaronm · · Score: 1

      You obviously realized it, at some point, but this was short-sighted, for you - if you're anything like me. I don't remember shit: a week after I write something, it might as well have been someone else. Not in all cases, but a lot. I learned early on, "Comment, comment, and comment some more." Because, most often, it isn't going to be some pimply faced youth that gets stuck on this obscure, "Hold my beer and watch this!" hack: it'll be me.

    25. Re:Article has it Right by anyaristow · · Score: 1

      Or maybe he's not as smart as he thinks he is, and refuses to do things he doesn't think of himself. Maybe he's a one-trick pony and everyone would be better off not listening to anything he says outside his area of expertise. Maybe he really is smart but won't do anything he doesn't find interesting.

    26. Re:Article has it Right by wmbetts · · Score: 1

      I guess I'm odd, because if my lead says an idea of mine is stupid chances are it probably is and I don't get personally offended. He's not calling me stupid he's calling the idea I had stupid. For every good idea I have, I have a couple bad ones and I'd imagine most people are that way as well. Even if it's a good idea and he wants to go a different direction that's his prerogative. He's the lead. People shouldn't be so touchy that they're personally offended by every discussion their boss makes.

      --
      "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me". - stolen from Dan C alt.os.linux.slackware
    27. Re:Article has it Right by shiftless · · Score: 1

      Why didn't you just start your own company and sell your own product, instead of wasting your life away dealing with other idiots' messes?

    28. Re:Article has it Right by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 2

      I'll agree with you that obscure hacks suck, even more so when they are rife with regular expressions and scant man pages like awk and sed...

      My approach was to do things in a repeatable manner so that the next time that I ran into the problem I already had a solution in my head that I could either apply directly, or extend in a common manner to handle the problem at hand. I can not tell you how much it pisses me off to have a single developer apply a different solution each time they run into the same problem... The big things (many to many relationships and cursor processing) took me a couple of week-long headaches to get a handle on, but the pain resulted in re-usable code that I would apply repeatedly (eventually I switched from Infos to pl/sql and started making my work more reusable with calls to stored procedures). Honestly, when I read my own code it might as well just be comments because it is based on an internal approach that I already understand. With larger teams I have had to write (and ask others to write) more universal comments, but at least I can communicate to them the reasons for the effort and the benefits that they will receive

      I really do feel sorry for the person who ran into the first dynamic segmentation project that I worked up... But, that was what the 'jerk' me wanted to happen anyways

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    29. Re:Article has it Right by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Because, at that time I lacked the business acumen to take advantage of it... I had led the development of postscript based high resolution mapping and even got our agency to receive national awards for the work. My first inclination was to give lectures to other GIS-folk on how to do it themselves. My first presentation was 20 minutes of me talking as fast as I could and a room full of people who looked like a pterodactyl had just swooped over their heads... complete and utter incomprehension

      At that point, other ArcInfo users started hiring me on contract to apply the methods to their systems, and even then I horribly undercharged them for the work and spent my own time training their people to take it over

      That is to say, I had no idea on how to profit from my knowledge and I missed on out on a prime opportunity because of it

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    30. Re:Article has it Right by Velex · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hi. "Rockstar"/"Brilliant Jerk" programmer here. I'm responsible for maintaining a niche piece of software that's used by call centers, and I'd like to offer another perspective that my current day job has helped me to understand deeply.

      So, this piece of software is closed-source. It's also buggy, wonky, inconsistent, breaks basic Windows UI conventions (like using alt-tab to switch between windows), is inexplicably slow, implements its own widget set (poorly), and is a downright piece of crap. For example, to create a formula, it gives you an interface a lot like Crystal Reports if you've used its formula editor, but instead of allowing you to type on your own, it forces you to use drag-and-drop. Want to do len(myfield)? First, you have to browse through a squinty tree of haphazardly categorized functions and operators to find the len function, drop it in your formula, then you have to find myfield in another squinty, non-alphabetical list of every variable in the system and drop it in place as an argument.

      Now let's put this into perspective before your (or somebody else's) knee jerks and goes "ah ha! a n00b using len and Crystal Reports, this is obviously the Brilliant Jerk in the wild!" (Incidentally I gave up on Crystal a couple years ago in favor of \LaTeX{} and gnuplot.)

      First of all, all but a few of my co-workers (I'll get to those few towards the end) will tell you that I'm the first to admit when I've screwed something up. I screw things up all the time. I'm human, and I'm not perfect. I hold my abilities in high esteem and strive to take pride in my work, but that doesn't mean I think my understanding of programming is the end-all be-all. If somebody points out something I've been doing wrong, I'll correct it and thank them for showing me the light.

      The problem is that when things screw up, it's not always something I've done wrong, and sometimes it's not even something I can do anything about. In case you missed it above, the software I use for my day-to-day tasks is closed-source.

      I have indirectly dealt with the Brilliant Jerk. You see, the vendor who shall remain nameless that sold my company this closed-source turd that was the reason I was promoted (originally my job was to be temporary, to transition accounts to the new software only) seems to employ a lot of Brilliant Jerks and Rockstars. And yes, trust me, there are reasons I haven't just replaced this software with some kind of Ajaxy Vaadin-ish Web 3.4.2 RC1 portal that are beyond the scope of this post. And also, inasmuch as the user-unfriendliness of this software is the reason I now have a new car and a mortgage, there's only so much bad I can say about it.

      The point being, the Brilliant Jerk just about describes, as far as I can tell, the software development staff of this nameless vendor. They're always right, and you're always doing something wrong. If their software can't do something that it needs to do, you're wrong for even wanting it to do that thing! You can't win. For 2 years this software was randomly locking up and losing data, but it took intervention from the owner of the company I work for before they even acknowledged that a day-to-day reality for the folks on the call floor was even happening. Even then, they never really acknowledged it, and they never apologized. It just magically got better release after release until it didn't happen any more.

      The reason I called myself a Brilliant Jerk in the start of this post is because that's how some co-workers perceive me. One of the mottos in the call center world is "perception is reality." My counterpoint is that if I perceive that I should fly if I jump off a building, it's not very functional to blame the concrete that splits my head open at the bottom of my "flight."

      As I mentioned before, my job was meant to be temporary. It turned into a permanent job, because it turns out that the CTO (kind of a software developer, network admin, and graphic artist all rolled into one, quite the talent

      --
      Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
    31. Re:Article has it Right by Velex · · Score: 1

      I'm responsible for maintaining a niche piece of software that's used by call centers.

      Oops, that didn't come out quite right. Imagine the vendor is Microsoft, the closed source software is Visual Studio, and I was promoted because I'm a C# programmer.

      IOW it's not my software the way that probably makes it sound, but I'm a programmer that uses it to make a living.

      (Not to knock Visual Studio. I know we love to hate Microsoft, but Visual Studio is a very good IDE [at least if you're a C# programmer].)

      --
      Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
    32. Re:Article has it Right by ItsJustAPseudonym · · Score: 1

      I regard "collaboration" as antithetical to "blustering". A blustering individual probably wants his or her way all of the time, and blusters through any negotiation (which is a component of collaboration). Thus, I think the utility of the blustering developer is limited. He or she has trouble working with others fairly.

      As you imply at the beginning, you need to keep such people on projects in which the side-effects of their blustering are contained.

    33. Re:Article has it Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are different kinds of brilliant jerks. Some are actually brilliant. If they are in fact brilliant, you keep them on and get them to hire helpers and put them on R&D projects. Let them keep being brilliant.

      For the bean counters - the real value in a company is the IP. The Brilliant jerks that are actually brilliant are making much of that IP.
      In my case, a company went from $30million investment to worth over 250million, mostly because of a brilliant jerk and a managment staff that could harness him. Point him in the right direction - "Solve this problem" etc.

    34. Re:Article has it Right by corbettw · · Score: 1

      This, this, a thousand times this. The article is extraordinarily poorly written; there is zero evidence presented that the subject of the article is anything but a brilliant, hard-working, and devoted doctor. The author does not say anything about what plans, if any, he brought to the table on how to expand the practice (why does he keep calling it in a "business" when it's obviously a medical practice, a specific type of business with its own specific needs?), nor does he list what the so-called jerk's complaints were.

      Shoddy writing from someone who apparently just wants to take a last, parting shot at someone he butted heads with years ago. The whole thing seems highly unprofessional to me.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    35. Re:Article has it Right by alexo · · Score: 1

      The next time I'm in a mood for some alcohol, Gary, I will drink to your health.

    36. Re:Article has it Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for sharing your inspirational story about not giving up, fighting your hardest, and standing up for the compensation you can use! It's warmed my economically motivated heart, and I'm sure, the hearts of a lot of other people who don't care to post responses.

      All my best, and see you on the battlefields of tomorrow!

      -S-

  7. Wait, What? by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I define Brilliant Jerks as specialized, high-producing performers. They are not, however, brilliant business people

    Seriously, he's never met a brilliant jerk MBA business guy? He needs to get out more. Many business types are jerks, some are even very talented and smart.

    --
    All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    1. Re:Wait, What? by MyLongNickName · · Score: 2

      If he is a jerk to the extent that the article is talking about (causing problems within the organization meeting its goals) then he is not brilliant. If he is simply cut throat with competitors and vendors, he would not meet the definition of jerk being used in the article.

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    2. Re:Wait, What? by kelemvor4 · · Score: 1

      I define Brilliant Jerks as specialized, high-producing performers. They are not, however, brilliant business people

      Seriously, he's never met a brilliant jerk MBA business guy? He needs to get out more. Many business types are jerks, some are even very talented and smart.

      It doesn't take a lot (other than money, or credit) to get an MBA these days. He's probably met a ton of jerky business types, but none that are brilliant.

    3. Re:Wait, What? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      I think the point is that the Brilliant Jerk is predominantly brilliant in the early stages of the company, but predominantly jerk as the company grows. A startup can really use a few genius employees who can work miracles on a shoestring budget and a tenth the time anyone else would need, but with growth comes more of a need for established procedures and established domains of authority. The Brilliant Jerk does not thrive in such an environment. The writer is simply pointing out that just because someone provides a near-superhuman performance early on in a company does not mean the company owes them any loyalty: Once their usefulness has passed, kick them out the door.

    4. Re:Wait, What? by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

      "That's doesn't suck" was apparently high praise from Mr. Jobs. Many have described him as abrasive.

      The thing is, Mr. Jobs set the goals. If he pissed people off and accomplished his goals, Apple made money.

      It's more important that everyone's goals are aligned. I'd fire someone whose goals were 180 degrees apart from mine any day, whether they were a jerk or not. It's just easier to fire the jerk.

      In the article, he doesn't demonstrate that firing the jerk early would have stopped the "poaching employees, helping competitors and starting legal battles" If they had fired him too early, the missing revenue might have doomed the company anyway.

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    5. Re:Wait, What? by tilante · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just because your mom carried you for nine months, then spent huge amounts of time and effort raising you doesn't mean you owe her any loyalty; once her usefulness has passed, kick her out the door.

      But seriously -- I hope you're being extremely metaphorical with "kick them out the door." If they did that much for the company, they at least deserve some stock or a good severance package, and a glowing recommendation.

    6. Re:Wait, What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Business is not family. Never confuse the two. You don't owe your company loyalty any more than it owes it to you.

      -- MyLongNickName

    7. Re:Wait, What? by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

      The writer is simply pointing out that just because someone provides a near-superhuman performance early on in a company does not mean the company owes them any loyalty: Once their usefulness has passed, kick them out the door.

      And then they go on to a competitor and design a better product.

      Microsoft has been known to crush competitors just by hiring away all their best engineers. They get millions in salary, but don't do anything at MS except watch their former employers die.

      Instead of firing your Brilliant Jerks, better to put them to pasture where they can't do any harm, throw them some oats, and see if anything comes of it.

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    8. Re:Wait, What? by tragedy · · Score: 1

      The "poaching employees, helping competitors and starting legal battles" sounds to me like he came in with promises of being treated as a company founder and was surprised when he was stabbed in the back.

    9. Re:Wait, What? by Kreigaffe · · Score: 3, Informative

      And.. what problems did this particular brilliant jerk cause?

      From TFA: " A growth company needs enablers, not disablers."

      That's really the most damning thing said about him during his employment with TFA's author.

      Basically, the author is complaining that somebody had the audacity to tell management that there were problems and flaws with their brilliant ideas. The Jerk wasn't being a jerk, he was approaching issues from a problems-first perspective. Management *hates* when people hear their wonderful new idea and tell them what's wrong with it, or that the whole thing won't ever accomplish what they want because of this or that, or that it won't work unless this or that is also done or stopped.

      It's been my experience that management only likes to be treated like a 6th grade english class. There are no wrong answers, everyone's right, yippee feel-good-happytime!

      Anecdote: I once worked for a place that spent in the neighborhood of 2.5mil to distribute a procedure across many employees that had previously been centralized. They had 3 people doing that job, and spent all that money so they could eliminate 2 of them. They were making ~40k/year. Even if you assume their total benefits ran the company 80k/year, that's still ~15 years until they hit a break-even point. And that's not taking into account that from the start, their distributed plan was executed poorly (despite employees having pointed out those problems before anything was installed) and the quality was decreased (as the employees who were forced to take on a new task weren't really able to perform it well, it was an industrial environment and there simply wasn't the time for them to dick around with something else and still keep pace with the machinery and other employees). That was also pointed out, and ignored.

      The next year, despite more protestations that the idea wasn't going to work and calm explanations why, another 1.5mil was spent installing more crap that was slower and more unsafe and more prone to failure than the previous procedure.

      Decision makers don't like being told their ideas aren't all brilliant, and when their decisions only affect the jobs done by those below them it's pretty simple to pass off any failure of their idea to work as a failure of the employees, not of the idea. Anyone who points out the problems with the idea is labeled a jerk.

      In my book, it's the dingleberries with the inflated egos who are unable to take criticism of their ideas productively who are the jerks. But hey, what do I know. Wait, no, scratch that. What I know is irrelevant. All that matters is WHO I know, gosh I'm dumb!

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    10. Re:Wait, What? by dkleinsc · · Score: 2

      Seriously, he's never met a brilliant jerk MBA business guy? He needs to get out more.

      Yeah, I thought I'd run into a brilliant jerk MBA recently who said he was running for president. Then he gave a speech and it turned out that guy wasn't brilliant at all.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    11. Re:Wait, What? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2, Informative

      My mom is a cunt bitch who acted like she owned me as a slave and has never recognized a situation where she could have possibly been wrong in her life. I moved out because I was plotting how to get away with stabbing her in the throat and I figured the cost was higher than the return. She's already been hit by a car once and I almost killed her in labor, two good tries but no such luck; world will be better without her.

    12. Re:Wait, What? by tilante · · Score: 2

      To carry the analogy back, if you have an employee who did a bunch of work, but is also also an asshole, holds the company hostage to get his way, and can't believe he could ever be wrong, and who you're sure any company would be better off without... kick him to the curb.

      Sometimes people are so nasty that there's no way to live with them. Sorry that person had to be your mom, man.

    13. Re:Wait, What? by VAElynx · · Score: 1

      The writer is simply pointing out that just because someone provides a near-superhuman performance early on in a company does not mean the company owes them any loyalty: Once their usefulness has passed, kick them out the door.

      And then the same people wonder why people sabotage companies they were kicked out of ...
      The mathematics is simple - if the "job creator" treats the workers like enemies, they'd be dumb to behave otherwise.

  8. Clown question bro by Andy+Prough · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why would you ask that here? What would slashdotters know about being jerks?

    1. Re:Clown question bro by sosume · · Score: 1

      Are you saying you have never met an evil nerd?

    2. Re:Clown question bro by stephanruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The word 'jerk' is just a label we use for others, never ourselves.

      That's what makes this topic so fruitless. Go ask the biggest jerks you know of if they believe they're jerks. Most don't think they are, but they'll probably volunteer a list of many "others" that fit the label.

    3. Re:Clown question bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Are you saying you have never met an evil nerd?

      We prefer the term 'evil genius.'

    4. Re:Clown question bro by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      The word 'jerk' is just a label we use for others, never ourselves.

      That's what makes this topic so fruitless. Go ask the biggest jerks you know of if they believe they're jerks. Most don't think they are, but they'll probably volunteer a list of many "others" that fit the label.

      Agreed. It's like asking someone if they think they're stupid or a below average driver or lover.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  9. Article says get rid of them ASAP by syntap · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can think of no better way to inspire under-performers in a growing company than to jettison the worker who has been a superhero to date in a small company. This article is baffling to me and I don't understand why the author thinks dealing with super-performers should be different based on the company size. And the premise that it is unreasonable for the guy who constantly pulls backsides of others out of the fire to become a little irritated is odd.

    Just so I have this straight, in order to drop the "jerk" suffix, a super-achieving worker who fills in for people when they are on vacation or sick, does not take vacation himself because the company is so reliant on his performance, and probably isn't getting credit for how many times he saved his coworkers must a) always be cheerful, and b) not speak up when he believes management is heading in directions that will increase reliance on said worker and make life even more difficult.

    Basically the mind is cutting the heart out of a company, when both need to recognize each other's strengths and capitalize on them instead of picking a "winner".

    1. Re:Article says get rid of them ASAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The basic rule of min-maxing contradicts this idea - you want to spend maximum effort on your maximally effective people to enable them to do more so they can spread their wings. Under-performers need to first perform better to prove that they are worth your time. (sorry, it's tough life)

      Now, what constitutes a top performer is a separate story, and this label is more often subjective than objective.

    2. Re:Article says get rid of them ASAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've seen it happen more than once in an engineering software context. The trajectory of the company is typically as follows:

      - initial startup fueled by technically-capable professionals
      - company growth requires ancillary services including marketing and HR
      - sales and marketing takes over leadership of the company, HR takes over hiring
      - HR hiring significantly dilutes levels of technical acumen and professionalism
      - original professionals are gradually tossed over the side or quit
      - company reaches apogee, is taken over, and disappears

      It strikes me that the article can be succinctly summarized as an argument for mediocrity.

    3. Re:Article says get rid of them ASAP by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

      Since they are all doctors, it seems that any of them could have stepped up the the plate and done what he did. Perhaps not as effectively, so revenue might be a little off, but so what, if it makes it a better place to work.

      If you are running a startup, and you fire your star designer, you have better be able to coast for a long time on existing products. It's like a rock band firing the lead singer/writer. Yes it's been done, but mostly you're going to fade to obscurity.

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    4. Re:Article says get rid of them ASAP by Zalbik · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, rather than actually doing some "management", and figuring out how to best fit this person within the company, let's just terminate him.

      Who cares if they were (from the article):
      - Respected by their co-workers
      - Producing twice the revenue of some of the other founders
      - First to volunteer to work on holidays.
      - First to get new training and share it with others one-on-one
      - etc.
      As well, article seems to define a "jerk" as: "anyone who doesn't agree with management"), just fire them. I'm certain their co-workers find firing these people very inspiring. At least their inspired to shut up & not criticize any bad ideas management may have.

      Who's the clown that wrote this anyways? All I can find about him is he got a bit lucky with a single startup (STI Knowledege), sold it for around $12mil, and now is going to be the host of the reality show "The Next Tycoon". Not exactly stellar credentials.

    5. Re:Article says get rid of them ASAP by RoknrolZombie · · Score: 2

      Oh, for some mod points. I work at a company right now that's going through this process...what a complete clusterfuck.

    6. Re:Article says get rid of them ASAP by Jeng · · Score: 1

      Just because they are really good workers, that doesn't mean they should be making management type decisions once things get beyond their ability.

      It's not so much that the person should be fired, just have their duties relaxed.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    7. Re:Article says get rid of them ASAP by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

      rather than actually doing some "management",

      Managing a problem (or person) is different from fixing it. If you merely manage a problem, the problem is still there - you simply find ways to work around it (or him / her).

      In a small company, productivity is the most important attribute: the "brilliant" bit.
      As a company grows, having a good team becomes more important. So the "jerk" part starts to override the brilliance.

      After that the BJ stops being a useful asset and starts to be a liability. The liability will start to fester just when you company is at its most vulnerable - as it starts to grow. The BJ is more likely to scare off talented new people (possibly by accident, possib;y because they're seen as a threat or a challenge to the BJ's position) and to become a bottleneck.

      It may be emotionally hard to drop one of a company's founding employees, but making tough choices is one part of growing the business to maturity. Best get rid of them when the complaints start coming in from other people in the company (and before they leave of their own accord, with all your proprietary information, to start up a rival on their own). The longer you wait, the worse it gets.

      --
      politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    8. Re:Article says get rid of them ASAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who's the clown? A brilliant jerk, that's who.

    9. Re:Article says get rid of them ASAP by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      The 'superhero' is an asshole who happens to be banging the shit out of your ex-girlfriend because she doesn't want to lose touch with his nine inch penis even though he treats her like shit in public. She'd be better off ditching him and coming back to you, but eh.

    10. Re:Article says get rid of them ASAP by DrJimbo · · Score: 1

      I agree that TFA's use of the "jerk" label is way over the top. OTOH, I've been the "brilliant [whatever]" in a series of different companies and I think the advice to get rid of them is sound.

      The brilliant people want to (need to) create. Once their flurry of massive creation is done in one company, they really should move on to a different company where they can start creating from scratch again. From the perspective of the brilliant creator the transition from startup to growth is seen as a transition from creation to maintenance.

      IMO the problem is not that brilliant people are jerks (although I admit some of the are), the problem is that our current corporate culture does not deal with brilliant people well. In fact it seems to assume that all people are not brilliant. It wants to treat people like replaceable cogs so *management* can make all the important decisions. That works great in maintenance mode but it is deadly in creative mode. This is related to the Perlisism:

      Everything should be built top-down, except the first time.

      The highly creative people need free rein during the initial creative period. After that, their creativity needs to be held in check and the best solution for all concerned is to give them a bunch of money and replace them with less creative people who will be happier working in maintenance mode. Of course maintenance happens during the creative phase and creativity happens during the longer maintenance phase. Also, it is essential that what is created is easy to maintain.

      --
      We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
      -- Anais Nin
    11. Re:Article says get rid of them ASAP by Velex · · Score: 1

      Dr. Horrible, is that you?

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      Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
    12. Re:Article says get rid of them ASAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >I can think of no better way to inspire under-performers in a growing company than to jettison the worker who has been a superhero to date in a small company.

      Tread that one lightly. The over performers will leave shortly after they have to take on the jerk's workload, then you'll have nothing but under-performers. Not a good situation to be in. Remember, developers can actually produce *negative* productivity and customers don't like excuses.

  10. Let him do what he does best by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

    I'd say make him a chief engineering officer or chief software architect or some other top R&D title. "Brilliant Jerks" tend not to be people persons (obviously) so they tend to shy away from client/investor/public facing roles like CEO, where they can do real damage. If this person insists on such a role, perhaps let him find out the hard way that if he wants a management role, he has to minimize his role in R&D doing the things he actually loves. I think he will make the decision on his own that he'd rather be head tinkerer than run the day to day of the company.

    1. Re:Let him do what he does best by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

      The advantage to putting him to pasture is it keeps this person from starting a competing firm, and stealing you business.

      Cray Computer Inc was started this way. Seymore Cray needed his independence, so CDC finanaced him. When Cray made money, they made money.

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
  11. See also: Bill Gates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are a lot of brilliant jerks who aren't brilliant business people, but that's true of any group. Brilliant jerk and brilliant business person are not exclusive properties.

  12. Sack him. by Xest · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Honestly, I've never met a brilliant jerk who actually is.

    People only get genuinely brilliant because they're capable of introspection, because they're capable of looking at themselves and seeing in what areas they can improve and then they go out and do exactly that, they improve that area. If they could do that, they wouldn't be a jerk because they'd recognise it as an area of improvement.

    People who are jerks often think they're better than they are and simply don't have anyone above them competent enough to call them out on their bullshit.

    1. Re:Sack him. by farkus888 · · Score: 1

      Age is an issue here, some brilliant people learn social skills late and social skills improvement isn't a magical overnight fix. Knowing the right answer and knowing the best way to present it to others don't always come at the same time. Of course, knowing who will always be a jerk and who needs time to learn the culture is part of good hiring. Programming a young socially challenged genius may well be easier than reprogramming an older genius who is still trying to work a culture that they are no longer a part of. The best indicator I know of is genuinely catching them being wrong and seeing how they respond. That is hard because they are, by definition here, brilliant. Fortunately it is easiest early when they know the least about the details of the new things they are working on. This means you can spot the fakers and keep them from becoming too integral if you pay attention.

      --
      thats right, I rarely use capitals. deal with it. but don't mistake my laziness for stupidity
    2. Re:Sack him. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Already posted here, so can't mod, but yes. Posting anon because I'm about to describe a former co-worker... I'll call him Dave (not his real name).

      Dave was our chief network admin, and he was brilliant -- he knew his stuff better than any other network admin I've worked with.

      He was, however, a huge jerk. The first manifestation of Dave's jerk-ness -- and the most obvious to me, since I was working in the same group with him -- is that he could not stand to have competent employees under him. The incompetent ones he'd keep, because they made him look better. Anyone who was hired in under him that was actually competent, he'd give only the tasks that he didn't want to do -- basically, pulling cables and putting ends on them. When management got tired of everyone who was hired in under him leaving quickly and ordered him to give his guys more responsibility, he started deliberately setting them up for failure. He did things like letting tasks that he knew were high-profile, but not really important overall, age until there was very little time to do them, then hand them off to his subordinates -- often with incomplete information, or doing this with tasks that were things they hadn't been trained in.

      (To give a concrete example, when we were getting IP phones and the time came to set up the phones for the executive office, Dave went and installed the CEO's phone himself... then gave his subordinates the task of setting up the phones of the other people in the executive office, with them not having been trained on setting them up. And telling them it needed to be done that day. Thus, he showed off his personal competence to the CEO, then made his employees look incompetent to people he knew would complain about how long they were taking to the CEO.)

      Related to that, he'd withhold training from his guys -- or get them sent to training months before the new equipment would arrive, then not let them have any devices to work with in between, so they'd forget as much of what they'd learned as possible before they had a chance to actually use it. He also would use "his guys" as his personal entourage and lackeys, sending them to do errands for him, and loaning them out to other groups to do things that weren't in their job descriptions. He lent them to the front office to help them move furniture so often that someone made a sign that said "Dave's Moving Company" and stuck it on their door.

      Oh, and by the way -- one of those guys he kept lending out to move furniture had a chronic back injury. Really.

      Eventually, there were enough complaints that Dave's position was changed, and his employees were moved under another manager -- under me, actually. They still took direction from him for network tasks, but I was responsible for managing training for them, and had to approve any non-network-related uses of them... so "Dave's Moving Company" promptly went out of business.

      Of course, that meant that I had to then deal with Dave a lot. Which led to discovering more aspects of his jerk-ness.

      Dave was brilliant at what he did -- but he believed he was perfect, and would lie, falsify evidence, and do anything else he could to avoid ever admitting that he'd made a mistake. When someone suggested that a network port or device might have a configuration error, he'd huffily deny the possibility... but quite often, it would mysteriously start working correctly a couple of hours later. Dave would deny that he'd changed anything, but when that happens over and over, as it did, it definitely becomes suspicious.

      Lastly, Dave loved to feel important. Oh, he'd vocally complain about how often he'd get called when he was on vacation... but at the same time, he'd refuse to give his subordinates access to the passwords to the most important network equipment, so that if anything went wrong, he'd be the one people would have to call. When management told him that he needed to start giving them passwords, he stalled, saying first that he needed to train them mor

    3. Re:Sack him. by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I play Go.

    4. Re:Sack him. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly, I've never met a brilliant jerk who actually is.

      I take it you never met Steve Jobs

  13. Isolate them by dkleinsc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1. Give them a sandbox where they're the autocratic ruler and sole resident.
    2. Slowly make that sandbox not at all relevant to the core of the business, by creating alternative approaches to solving the problem that the jerk used to solve. Other people will naturally route around the jerk whenever possible anyways, since nobody wants to deal with a jerk if they can help it.
    3. When the sandbox becomes irrelevant and socially outcast, fire the jerk.

    There are smart people who aren't jerks. Get them instead.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    1. Re:Isolate them by dubbreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are smart people who aren't jerks. Get them instead.

      This. There are plenty of great people out there if you look hard enough (though often you have to poach them).

      Of course you have to look at both sides. The brilliant jerk may not actually be a jerk, he just is willing to speak out about managements failings where others are unwilling, "Oh yes master, whatever you say master, you are always so right master.."

      Personally in my business I want people that are willing to call me on my bullshit. If I'm doing something stupid don't just hang on for the ride, I honestly may not see the mistake I'm making because I have horse blinders on or similar. Maybe I have a fuller view of what is going on, and the concerns are unwarranted, but then I should be clearly explaining why those concerns are unwarranted not just some brush off, "Trust me." Which is the biggest bullshit line ever. If you've put sweat equity into our product I owe it to you to explain I'm not driving it into the ground when from your perspective that's what the situation appears to be.

      --
      "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
    2. Re:Isolate them by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Informative

      The difference between somebody who disagrees with management and a jerk: When the boss presses the dissenter for more details, the non-jerk can produce information about exactly what's going wrong, why it's hurting the company, and what they propose to fix it. The jerk, when pressed, on the other hand, will announce that the boss is a moron who will never "get it".

      And yes, the greatest managers in history tolerated all sorts of dissent. For instance, Abraham Lincoln dealt regularly with cabinet secretaries (e.g. Samuel Chase) and top generals (particularly George McClellan) who hated both Lincoln and his other top officials.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    3. Re:Isolate them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brilliant, you jerk.

    4. Re:Isolate them by VAElynx · · Score: 2

      Smart people who aren't jerks tend to require an actual good salary ,however.

    5. Re:Isolate them by dkf · · Score: 1

      Smart people who aren't jerks tend to require an actual good salary ,however.

      If they add sufficient value, why is a good salary a problem?

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    6. Re:Isolate them by VAElynx · · Score: 2

      Beats me.
      However, that's what the IT industry in USA appears like, especially gaming industry - silly amounts of overtime, little job security, not that great salaries and little in the way of retirement benefits.

  14. Handling the Brillant Jerk. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kill them.

    1. Re:Handling the Brillant Jerk. by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      said the hr drone

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
  15. As a brilliant jerk by scorp1us · · Score: 0

    My brilliance* varies from topic to topic. My biggest problem is I want to apply my brilliance to everything. Over the course of time, I fail. I learn, I re-attempt, but it has taken me a while to admit defeat. So I am quite happy handing stuff over to whomever is better at it these days. I have a ton of great ideas, but I really suck at running a business. I can give you a really good concept and the best implementation, but I will fail to succeed on my own. Therefore, I suggest you convince your brilliant jerk that only his best are brilliance is needed, and you'll surround himself with other brilliant people in areas where he falters. naturally he will gravitate towards that too. All you have to do is convince him that the other people are on par with him in their areas. Which, admittedly is not always the case. But in those cases you can have a plan. That such brilliance is not yet needed, but can be acquired (malloced) when needed. She should be content then to do what he does best and work with other people.

    *Admittedly I am no longer the most brilliant person where I work. This can be hard to swallow, but it is easier if you bring them in under someone, rather than place someone above them. To do that move, you have to convince them that they can do the job better. I was not convinced of that and left. The company wanted a "yes man" which I was not. Later I found out the "yes man" left because he couldn't say yes enough to please management, because well, management was flawed. I knew that. Management was family to others in the company and they they hired a name whose ego surpassed my own. The thing is, he ran the company into the ground. many of my friends lost their jobs due to his mismanagement.

    So my other tip is poll him frequently, about everything, even outside his area.

    --
    Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
    1. Re:As a brilliant jerk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I have mod points, but there isn't an option for (-1, Inflated Sense of Self-Importance).

    2. Re:As a brilliant jerk by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      I'd mod this one up. Very realistic. :)

  16. Prepare to jettison booster on 5, 4... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The guy sounds like a booster rocket. At some point it has to be cut loose or you won't reach orbit. Just one thing: people aren't hardware that you can just let burn up. Make sure he gets a nice severance. The next problem you have might be "they chew people up and spit them out". Who wants a reputation like that?

    1. Re:Prepare to jettison booster on 5, 4... by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      yah make sure you give him

      1 a good parachute
      2 dispatch a boat to pick him up quickly (another small biz that needs him maybe??)

      hey this "booster rocket" thing WORKS

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  17. Manage them accordingly by madsenj37 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Find managers that can bridge the communication gap between jerks and the rest of the business. There are plenty of business people who know how to talk with someone like a specialized programmer for instance, without having any practical programming skills themselves. Every business success or failure is about finding the right people, culture, etc. Productivity is only one measure and people must be in place to motivate and communicate with all types of people.

    --
    Choosing the lesser of two evils is a choice for evil.
    1. Re:Manage them accordingly by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      Find managers that can bridge the communication gap between jerks and the rest of the business. There are plenty of business people who know how to talk with someone like a specialized programmer for instance, without having any practical programming skills themselves. Every business success or failure is about finding the right people, culture, etc. Productivity is only one measure and people must be in place to motivate and communicate with all types of people.

      *nodnodnod* If we didn't have one of those where I work, the place would be on fire in minutes.

  18. Best use for Brilliant Jerk by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 1

    Put him in his own cube with his own projects. Half the job, in any job, is being able to interact with others in a productive and professional way. BJs are constitutionally incapable of doing that and eventually cost you in productivity and morale.

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    1. Re:Best use for Brilliant Jerk by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      Maybe productivity, I'll grant you that, but it's been my experience that BJs do nothing but raise my.. er.. morale.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    2. Re:Best use for Brilliant Jerk by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      BJs help you keep your secretarial job at the executive level.

  19. Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Maybe he wouldn't be a jerk if the rest of you weren't all so stupid! Ever think of that?

    1. Re:Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he wouldn't be a jerk if the rest of you weren't all so stupid! Ever think of that?

      Why is this moderated as funny? No seriously. Stupid management makes people crazy. Brilliant management just gives you the perspective you were missing in a way you can understand.

    2. Re:Maybe by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      Because the "jerk" in the article wasn't a jerk at all.
      Author of the article was desperately trying to rationalize his idiotic decisions and bad management style by calling people names.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  20. Throw the basterd out! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    He was always the first to cover for doctors who were on call. He was always the first to volunteer to work on holidays. He had the most articles published by the American Medical Association. He was the first to get new training and share it with others one-on-one. And by the way, he was the highest revenue producer of all the doctors in the group. In fact, he was producing twice the revenue of some of the doctors. He had been the third doctor to join the group and without his revenue, the start-up could not have been successful.

    OK.*

    1. Covering people? He likes putting people in his debt AND he probably doesn't have a life because he's has issues.

    2. Most articles published: again no life.

    3. New training to share? Nice but more than likely it's because he likes being a know-it-all expert.

    4. Revenue? Please! My local hospital had this HUGE controversy (and subsequent lawsuits) because one of its cardiac surgeons was by-pass crazy. Come in with chest pains? Open heart! even if it was just gas. He pulled in a SHIT load of money so the hospital turned its head because he was pulling in so much money.

    He was a quack.

    Then again I know a surgeon, who is constantly turning patients away (ortho - back surgery) because their REAL problem is their fat gut and sitting in front of the computer 10+ hours a day.

    * - I know because I was just such an asshole and I've been paying for it every since and I'm making an effort to change.

    1. Re:Throw the basterd out! by docmordin · · Score: 1

      1. Covering people? He likes putting people in his debt AND he probably doesn't have a life because he's has issues.

      2. Most articles published: again no life.

      3. New training to share? Nice but more than likely it's because he likes being a know-it-all expert...

      Did it never cross your mind that maybe this particular individual just enjoys his work?

      As an aside, I've known plenty of people, myself included, who have pursued careers, e.g., as researchers, engineers, or physicians, despite having complete financial security from birth, simply because they relish working and have the talent for their particular job, wanted to make a difference, wanted to better themselves, etc.

  21. Easy by jbrandv · · Score: 4, Funny

    Promote him! Seems like that's what happens where I work.

  22. Can They Learn? by Edrick · · Score: 1

    If the "brilliant jerk" can learn and it's believed that they'll be able to grow with the company, provide greater value, and learn enough social skills to avoid being a detriment, then keep them, no question.

    If they're unable to learn, though, and will simply be a hindrance for the indefinite future, then what I've seen work (especially in government work) is to have that person isolated. Keep them alone, make them feel special so they are happy and productive, and they'll stay away from people that would otherwise alienate or insult.

    If none of this is possible...then perhaps the person needs to be given the stern warning that either they are "brilliant" enough to learn how to deal with people, or they should no longer work for your company anymore.

  23. Like people with disabilities by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    They may be real good with some stuff but not so much with say other business people.

    Now you don't want to not have them and having people that are business people may end being good at business but as a PHB where they don't known much about the nuts and bolts.

  24. Hire us instead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hire those of us who are brilliant and who are not jerks.

    1. Re:Hire us instead by tragedy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The author of the article will only consider you not to be a jerk if you know your place. Which, by the way, is way down at the bottom of the org chart. You have to remember that, no matter how reliant on your skills the company is, and how interchangeable the MBA-types are, you are always less important than anyone with an MBA.

  25. Let him be... by Zapotek · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Give him his own office, a supply of fast food, sodas, coffee and energy drinks and let him work on the weird stuff that would defeat the others.
    Why did everything get so touchy-feely all of a sudden? Why can't a guy just work in peace without having to tip-toe around the feelings of all the precious little snowflakes?

    Now, if he goes out of his way to piss people off and promote general chaos and destruction then kick his ass out, otherwise suck it up.

    1. Re:Let him be... by k6mfw · · Score: 1

      Give him his own office, a supply of fast food, sodas, coffee and energy drinks and let him work on the weird stuff that would defeat the others.

      Isn't that what places like PARC were? Get a bunch of really smart people their own building, give them resources, and turn them loose? I never been to such places but I imagine a lot of people runnning around doing all kinds of stuff that nobody seems to understand. Probably did nothing but spend a lot of money on people's pet projects but then these guys developed GUI type computer interface (did I describe that right? you know, the type that Steve Jobs took for his LISA). I also feel this country no longer has these kinds of groups but those that still exists are much smaller.

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    2. Re:Let him be... by k6mfw · · Score: 1

      I want to add such "R&D" places are necessary, obviously don't let costs get out of control but don't hinder them with PHB and constant need to show a viable business plan (and there's zillions of jerks that present "viable" business plans that are total failures). If R&D places "waste" money on lotsa gadgets, then places like WeirdStuff and Halted will have neato stuff for us tinkerers to buy.

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    3. Re:Let him be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... feelings of all the precious little snowflakes?

      Someone said "I think therefore I am". Unfortunately, people emote first and cognate second. That is, everyone wants validation. So how a person feels is very important. Of course, in the workplace, one is there to solve the boss's problems, which means there are very few gestures of approval. But in a large way, employees still demand admiration. As I spend very little time reading the emotions of others, and never validate their feelings, I am the jerk in a big way. Those times when I decide I am right and they're wrong are simply the straw which breaks the camel's back.

    4. Re:Let him be... by triffid_98 · · Score: 1

      A lot of their stock has to do with actual fab/assembly moving out of the valley. Not that most of it hadn't ten or fifteen years ago. It's a great place for finding beforetime artifacts,tools or parts. In some cases they were failures, in others production just moved or liquidated after going out of date.

  26. what about a good Doctor that may not be the best by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    what about a good Doctor that may not be the best at working with Business people on non doctor Business should be gone?

  27. Stop focusing on growth and scaling so much by photon317 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's a need for and room for a certain number of large-scale companies in this country and in the world. There's also a need for and room for countless smaller and medium-sized companies. They're all integral parts of a functioning society and economy. Most small/medium companies will never be big and shouldn't be. When you fully understand business scaling, you realize that both in theory and practice it's *impossible* to scale a company without changing the product or service being delivered to your consumer.

    Think about the quality difference between say, Famous Restaurant Chain and that long-running Small Family-Owned Restaurant near you that makes incredible-tasting food. If you think the difference between the two is that the big tasteless one always sucked at making food but had a brilliant business guy at the reigns, and the small one, while tasty, simply lacks the business sense to scale up their operations and make real money on their talent, you've completely misunderstood how businesses scale.

    Most of those famous large-chain restaurants and fast-food joints actually started out as a single family-owned restaurant that was doing very well financially because customers loved the place. They genuinely loved the food, the service and price. The low-quality form they exist in today is the direct result of scaling; there's simply no other way to do it. Quality of the goods and services *always* falls when you scale up, but you make more money. Many of those successful small family restaurants that stay that way are constantly under pressure from peers and partners to expand and are perfectly capable of handling the business process of expansion, but they relentlessly resist because they don't want to ruin a good thing.

    At a small scale, each employee really matters. You do need some people who are brilliant at their respective jobs to be successful. Moving from there to the large scale is all about commoditization. It's about building a self-sustaining organization that delivers a consistent product or service regardless of which employees come and go over time. It means trading out the special people that make great things for the ability to turn out consistently mediocre things cheaply using random sets of mediocre employees. It's a hard transition to make, and it's a constant process as you grow rather than a one-time thing. If you want to grow, you have to hire people that can work with that process. People that can take themselves out of the picture personally. People who can instead design and operate an ever-expanding system where employees are just cogs in a machine which always runs smoothly even if some of the cogs are a little warped and misshapen, and even if there's a regular pace of cogs just leaving the machine and randomly-different ones replacing them sometime later.

    So if you're a businessperson, or business owner, or investor, this sort of scaling and growth is what excites you. You're not excited by making the best fajitas this side of the Mississippi, you're not excited by making the best firewall software man has ever seen, etc. You're excited by creating systems out of human cogs that scale up infinitely and keep giving back ever-increasing monetary rewards. But so many business people in the world want to scale their small-to-medium company into the next behemoth and most of them will fail. Scaling is hard, and there's only so much room, and your already-larger competitors already have a big leg up on you. Most of them shouldn't even try to scale. It's perfectly ok to stick to your smaller size, not frustrate everyone with scaling attempts, and simply keep re-investing profits into making it the best damn small company anyone ever did business with.

    The "brilliant jerk" isn't necessarily the problem. Maybe he's perfect for that small company, and the problem is your unnatural desire to scale things at the cost of quality, destroying a beautiful and functional small cog in the economy by trying to make it too big.

    --
    11*43+456^2
    1. Re:Stop focusing on growth and scaling so much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn, I wish I had mod points. This is actually insightful (rather than just a bunch of anecdotes and counter-anecdotes about people being jerks to other people).

    2. Re:Stop focusing on growth and scaling so much by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      Very, very, very well said, sir. Our doom is exactly this destructive habit of "grow at all costs" when it is impossible to grow indefinitely. Thing that any child perceives, but CEOs are apparently completely unable to understand.

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    3. Re:Stop focusing on growth and scaling so much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>Quality of the goods and services *always* falls when you scale up, but you make more money.

      That's not entirely true. Certainly, degradation of quality and simplification of product happens in some businesses - fast food is a prime example. But look at Ruth's Chris Steak House - any of those restaurants will be excellent. They've set controls on what the restaurants do, but there are intense amounts of training and QC to keep standards up. And they charge for it.

      Another example is Taylor Guitars. Bob Taylor, who owns the company, has stated something to the effect that when a company scales up, its products need to increase quality, because greater exposure will magnify flaws. He's lived up to that statement, and done so repeatedly - he started out in a shop with minimal automation, and gradually moved into a fully CAD/CAM environment with as many processes automated as possible, having been analyzed and process-designed by very smart people. And net-net, it works - a huge number of touring guitarists play Taylors when on the road, because if they break one, they can replace it with one that is to all practical purposes identical very quickly. And the quality *has* improved as they've scaled up production, because they're paying close attention to processes and results.

      Or consider the average smartphone. They're produced in bulk by factory laborers, but the process of assembling them has been very well refined. Some of it's product design, but some of it is just relentlessly analyzing the assembly process and looking for problem areas, then finding ways to ameliorate them.

      signed, an IT architect who thinks that smart people can scale up production and do quality. And who treats people with respect and care and finds that it goes way further than bluster and fury....

  28. Give him stock and tell him to fuck off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jobs was the business guy, Woz was the "brilliant jerk".

    1. Re:Give him stock and tell him to fuck off by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except for the jerk part, your assertion is accurate. Woz was and is brilliant.... Jobs OTOH was a narcissistic panty-boy with sociopathic tendencies (lying, conning, getting others to do his work then claiming it) who's "contribution" lives on in its pure, distilled form in Apple's lawsuit against Samsung.

      Fuck Apple.

    2. Re:Give him stock and tell him to fuck off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mod parent up.

    3. Re:Give him stock and tell him to fuck off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Jobs OTOH was a narcissistic panty-boy with sociopathic tendencies (lying, conning, getting others to do his work then claiming it)"
      You mean, a manager?

    4. Re:Give him stock and tell him to fuck off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh and, fuck apple.

    5. Re:Give him stock and tell him to fuck off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He had everything that is necessary in business. Look how successful Apple is as a company, with its large market capitalization. His psychological problems helped his business endeavors, as with many businessmen (wikipedia info on Business Personality Disorders)

    6. Re:Give him stock and tell him to fuck off by shiftless · · Score: 1

      Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

      My comment violated the postercomment compression filter. Apparently it doesn't like to hear the sound of WOOFYGOOFY's crying.

  29. OK, I read TFA by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I read TFA, assuming that the definition of "Brilliant Jerk" in the summary was, in fact, summarized, and that the whole definition actually defined the "jerkiness" as something other than just not being a "business person". But that wasn't the case. Later in the article were some half-assed examples of what the author means by "jerky" behavior, but still no real definition. He ended up a competitor, so? He poached employees? He started legal battles? Competitors do do that, as we've seen with Apple, Samsung, Google, and countless smaller companies.

    How many "business people" do you need? Someone's got to treat patients or develop products or otherwise provide some goods and services for the salesmen to sell and the marketeers to market. And if everyone says "yes, let's do it" to everything, you'll do everything without even thinking about it.

    If an employee just doesn't fit in anymore and everyone's unhappy about it, then sure, end the relationship as quickly and amicably as possible. But why label someone a "jerk" just because the business changed? If you now need a hammer but keep trying to drive nails with the saw, that's your fault. Blaming the saw for being a saw makes you the poor workman who blames his tools.

    --
    I am not a crackpot.
    1. Re:OK, I read TFA by tragedy · · Score: 1

      He ended up a competitor, so? He poached employees? He started legal battles?

      Yes. It sounds to me like the things that he did that makes the author label him a "jerk" mostly happened after the company brilliantly marginalized him until he quit. The article is vague on what the legal battles were about. My guess was that the company didn't keep the promises they made to him when they brought him in. It sounds to me like the company getting rid of him caused more problems than having him on board did.

  30. Brilliant Jerks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The truth of the matter is Brilliant Jerks are what run your company in the background. It's not necessarily that they are "jerks" but that they don't have that "political jargon" speech a lot of managers have. For instance, they say "no" instead of "I think there is a better way we can do this." Yes, you can fire all of them, however keep in mind if they truly are "brilliant" they will be bringing more to your company than your "regular" people.

  31. Embrace them?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just interviewed at a place that embraced the brilliant jerks instead of isolating them. They made it 'part of their culture' and they multiplied. Needless to say, I won't be taking their offer.

  32. Dreyfus model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For the subject area(s) that the guy is "expert" in, in the context of the Dreyfus model:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition

    just get out of the guy's way, don't micromanage him, and let him use his intuition to do great things for you.

  33. Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...what the stupid jerk thinks of the brilliant jerk?

  34. I'm Brilliant and Kind of Jerky by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm finishing up my PhD in a year (or twoish) and I'm looking forward to leaving academia and joining a small, growing company not related to nuclear physics. I can see myself bringing quantitative and technical skills to an otherwise lacking company.

    I'm not interested in becoming a jerk.

    How do I monitor the transition of the company and allow myself to feel out new roles and responsibilities?

    1. Re:I'm Brilliant and Kind of Jerky by tragedy · · Score: 1

      I'm not interested in becoming a jerk.

      Easy to avoid. Just remember that you're just a cog in the machine and, even if you're the very heart of the company and it succeeds only through your efforts, once it has grown enough that it's not all on your shoulders any more you should just sit down and shut up. If you're good you'll get a modest cost of living increase in your salary every year as a reward.

      How do I monitor the transition of the company and allow myself to feel out new roles and responsibilities?

      You don't. If you try to keep contributing to the company as it grows, you'll threaten all the new management they hired in above you as the company grew. Just stay in your place. Try to understand, as skilled as you may be, you're just a peon of the managers, even if not one in a million people can do what you do and the majority of people can do what they do.

  35. Disqualification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've always though that being a jerk disqualifies a person from being "brilliant".

    You need to be the whole package in order for me to call you "brilliant".

  36. Jealousy and self rightousness by WaffleMonster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    TFA read like a breakup with one side telling their story while the other side was not allowed to speak.

    What is most telling to me is the authors willingness to judge and place blaim on others while demonstrating his own lack of leadership.

    1. Re:Jealousy and self rightousness by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      TFA read like a breakup with one side telling their story while the other side was not allowed to speak.

      What is most telling to me is the authors willingness to judge and place blaim on others while demonstrating his own lack of leadership.

      I noticed the same thing, like the high school couple going off to separate colleges. Things don't work out long-distance, but of course, it's the other one's fault.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
  37. What Should You Do With Name-Calling Consultants? by inputdev · · Score: 2

    I started to read tfa, and from what I can tell, there is a paid consultant coming to speak with a group of 25 Doctors. There he makes snap pre-judgments and starts name calling, then publishes a blog about how right he is... What a waste of time and effort...

  38. give them an interesting problem to solve... by swframe · · Score: 1

    Tell them to create a product that is 10x better than the current product. Give them funding and support. If you can, have them work offsite.

    Try to hire another Brilliant non-Jerk to manage them. Brilliants Jerks are less offensive to other Brilliant people.

  39. what if it's the CEO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look at the greats, Microsoft, Facebook, Google, Apple. All headed by brilliant technical people. If you are the CEO of a tech company and aren't a brilliant engineer, it might be you that needs to go. Just sayin'.

  40. your considered a jerk if you wont work the hours by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unless you have a lot of guaranteed equity in the company it is never, ever worth the hassle to go above and beyond the call of duty. You make enemies. Its just not worth the hassle. You can keep the pay checks coming and ride the gravy train by doing alot less. Now you don't tell anyone you are doing that, cause they won't like that. Employers will be happy to use you up and fire you when they are done. However it is not in your personal interest to work all that hard.

    Note that in the IT business, the employer often has a ridiculous non-compete against the 'brilliant jerk' that might make it hard for him to find other employment. As a rule of thumb, you work somewhere and all of a sudden you get a long legal text they want you to sign that you don't really understand. Do NOT sign it. Especially if they pressure you to sign it right now and give you the 'just' excuse. We just want want to protect ourselves. This is just our standard agreement. There is a good chance they will fire you before the ink dries. Google did this to a large number of employees at a company they bought a few years ago.

    I generally like to keep to 40 hours. If I work late one day, I take time off. I don't ask. I just do it. There are some corporate cultures where this is considered alien and you are expected to work insane hours. If you refuse to work the hours, you are often considered the company jerk. You get 'but others have to do it'. No they choose to do it and call it a have to. I'm ok with the work waiting until tomorrow. What I have also found is that if you are smart enough to see the writing on the wall, get a new job and quit on them before they are ready to get rid of you they go crazy. So its best to just get a new job and quit by email. I look at it like I fired them. This way I don't have to deal with them. Employers will lie to you and tell you you are great to keep you around just until they want to get rid of you.

    I have also found that alot of companies do things in a way because that is how they have always done it. This often leads to running around like a chicken with your head cut off and leads to longer hours. Some places will listen to you and let you help improve things. Others will go 'we have always done it this way' or give you their reason for doing something. Well there is always a reason. It doesn't make it a good reason. Few places want to step back and look at the bigger picture. If people are salaried they would rather just force people to work really long hours then bother improving things. Most people are lemmings who will work the hours because they are told to. If you refuse, then you are the 'jerk'. As I said, I keep to 40 hours and if its a problem, I just go somewhere else and I go abruptly. Its not worth the hassle to give notice to a place that wouldn't rehire you. Just send an email.

    One issue I have had recently is that there is one group here that specifically requests my help on issues over and over again. There are other people around, but they prefer to go to me. Then I get a review and find out they are complaining about me. Yet, they keep coming back. Managers never give names, but its obvious who it is. The simple solution there (and one only I would want) is to use the passive aggressive approach to get them to not request my help. This way I don't get the complaints in my review. These days employers use excuses to lower your rating to give you a lower raise or no raise at all. So in the future when they come to me for help, they will get silence in response. Eventually my manager will ask me to work on it and I'll say, I have been swamped with something else and I'll get right on it. I won't. Then I'll eventually respond back with something that will not be very good. I won't say why I did this. I just won't be able to figure it out. Eventually they will go to someone else. This gets the negative comments off my review and frees me up to work with people who will say positive things about me. This is a conversation you can't have with anyone you work with. Your manager will give you a blank stare if you mention and go 'oh we don't want that'. Of course you don't, but under performing will get me a better review and a better raise. So I under peform.

  41. What do you mean my Jerk? by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

    Do you mean introvert, nerd, slightly autistic?
    Or you you mean backstabbing, businessman.
    If the former, put him in control of your product design, it sounds like he knows how to get things done (and being the most popular man around the water coolers does not help the company one bit). It worked for jobs and Woz.
    If you mean the second. Their is nothing you can really do about the boss. He is not going to resign simply because everyone hates him.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    1. Re:What do you mean my Jerk? by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      He means that he is a dumb manager who antagonized a valuable employee for no reason, was slapped with a lawsuit, and now is writing stupid blog posts calling people jerks.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  42. The Jerk's who manage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For the Brilliant Jerks...

    They key to surviving is to take 2 (or 3) jobs at the same time and collect all the salaries.
    This way your energy is diluted across companies and you don't irritate as many people

    I do this as a consultant in a legit way

        I have , however, seen this pattern multiple times by guys with FTE positions.
    These are Brilliant Jerks.

  43. Easy solution by superdave80 · · Score: 1

    I hear Apple is looking to hire a new CEO.

  44. Here's a crazy idea by Minwee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How about if you stop calling the people who built the company "jerks" and plotting how to get rid of them behind their backs?

    Just a thought. It might lead to fewer people realizing that they don't like working with you, leaving the company, becoming competitors, poaching employees and starting legal battles over stupid things that could easily have been sorted out between people who aren't jerks.

    But what would I know? I'm probably a jerk too.

    1. Re:Here's a crazy idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But what would I know? I'm probably a jerk too.

      Yeah, but you're my kind of jerk... ;)

  45. In my case... by Type44Q · · Score: 1

    I suppose I could sell my business to someone else... :p

  46. Fifth: Send us her resume. by mevets · · Score: 1

    Please!

    There are all kinds of companies with environments to suit all kinds of people. Interesting But Mediocre is great for some; not for others.

    A homogenous environment is cheap and easy for a business to create. When is cheap and easy ever bad?

  47. A Monumental Task by BoRegardless · · Score: 1

    So give the brilliant guy a truly insanely difficult looking (caveat) challenge for a breakthrough product.

    Once he's evaluated the entire set of options and possible solutions, which are documented so everyone can meet with the rest of management and see what the odds are of a possibility of a breakthrough.

    Use people for their skills.

  48. Change the relationship by LordZardoz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think that the situation as described is incomplete or missing part of the picture.

    What he is describing is what happens when you have a highly valuable and contributing team member who has a vision for the company that differs from what everyone else wants.

    Assume we have 10 employees.
    Lets say Employee X has a value of 1000, and the rest have a value of 100 each. The company has a value of 1900. Clearly Employee X is valuable and to get where you need to be, you need to accommodate his views. He is basically more than half the company

    Now you grow to 40 employees. Employee X is still worth 1000, but the rest of the group is worth 3900. Employee X should not be dictating where the entire group wants to go, even if he carries so much influence.

    Employee X did not become less valuable, he did become less important. The only time Employee X becomes a Jerk is if Employee X allows his ego to think he is still more than half the value of the company.

    The solution is that Employee X needs to be treated as a consultant or contract. Let him be the rock star that saves every ones ass. But as good as he is, he cannot lead if no one wants to follow him, and he should not lead if the place he wants to lead is not the place the team wants to go. And Employee X should not be allowed to prevent someone else from leading if his plans do not add as much to the group as the other guy.

    A good leader is not the guy who is worth 1000 to everyone else's 100. A good leader is the guy who can get a value of 120 from people with a base value of 100.

    END COMMUNICATION

    1. Re:Change the relationship by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

      Yes, good analysis.

      If you can give him his own domain where he heads a small department, you could still get almost 1000 units of value from him, but keep him away from everyone else. This would also keep him from starting a competing firm.

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    2. Re:Change the relationship by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      You sir, have delivered a sliver of calm rationalization into a festering pit of rage. As much as I hate any sort of justification for statements and ideas presented in the article, you have a point.

      The only limitation I would say is that "value" (which I assume means ability to earn revenue) does not translate to into ability/right to steer company. "Where the entire group wants to go" is actually a decision for the CEO/owners regardless of their "value". The example in the article, I think, would be the exception to the rule. A group of doctors coming together usually form a partnership of sorts where the workers are also the owners and decision makers. (Do... what do they call it? "Practices" have their own MBA-type they employ?) But for slashdot, we have engineers and businessmen. And steering the company is specifically a businessman's job. Same goes for most companies.

    3. Re:Change the relationship by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      You sir, have delivered a sliver of calm rationalization into a festering pit of rage.

      This is one of the situations where if you are not outraged, you are not paying attention.

      Nowhere in the article any justification was given to description of a person as a "jerk", other than that author believes, company must grow indefinitely and accumulate internal bureaucracy such as himself instead of providing any kind of service. Inventing scenarios where stupid manager is right, does not make a useful contribution to a discussion.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    4. Re:Change the relationship by LordZardoz · · Score: 1

      The justification is that the 'jerk' in question was basically murdering the teams morale and enthusiasm.

      Some portion of management types were brainstorming ideas on how to improve things (ie, ideas for new services or products) and getting everyone involved and excited. Then the rockstar / genius / jerkass guy would crap on everything saying everything sucks. As brilliant and as respected as Employee X was, no one else really wanted to work with him.

      Now, it is possible that the ideas being discussed were terrible ideas that needed to be shot down. But lets say that the ideas were not necessarily bad ideas, and just ones that employee X does not agree with. If your an employee, your part of a team. If your the most valuable member of the team, you should be taken seriously. But Employee X should not be allowed to become the proverbial albatross around the teams neck.

      Employee X is like a fan favorite superstar player on a Basketball team that can score crap tons of goals, but the team is still losing. The coach has ideas to fix it, but they mean Employee X is not going to score as many goals. Letting the Superstar do what he wants is not going to get the team to win (they are already doing that). Making the changes the superstar wants the team to make is also not going to work (team cannot afford expensive players needed to back up the superstar).

      At that point, the Superstar is usually traded, the team makes the changes they feel they need to. Sometimes the team starts to win again. Sometimes they lose worse. No matter what though, something needed to change.

      END COMMUNICATION

    5. Re:Change the relationship by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      The justification is that the 'jerk' in question was basically murdering the teams morale and enthusiasm.

      No. You are inventing things that not only aren't there, the author did not dare to claim that they were. You are in a full apologist mode.

      Some portion of management types were brainstorming ideas on how to improve things (ie, ideas for new services or products) and getting everyone involved and excited. Then the rockstar / genius / jerkass guy would crap on everything saying everything sucks. As brilliant and as respected as Employee X was, no one else really wanted to work with him.

      Even if management did that, they have to be ready for their "ideas" to be rejected by engineers because those ideas ignore reality of what is and what is not possible to do with available technology.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  49. It depends by DaveGod · · Score: 1

    As with most things in life, generalisations like "brilliant jerk" are wrong the vast majority of the time.

    Dealing with your "brilliant jerk" will depend entirely on many factors such as his personality, strengths and weaknesses. And those of the company.

    Whenever I read a business article, it's always full of truthisms. But then read another article and it's full of truthisms that are completely the opposite course of action. Go read a dozen case studies, find the same thing. The best course of action depends on making the right call in the specific situation - and being able to execute it. All the stock management strategies, tools etc are just guidance, there to help you think objectively and formally.

  50. different people have different strengths by TheSync · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I was in a situation where we had a very bright and capable college intern, and we hired him when he graduated. The kid was the kind of person you could throw an amorphous ill-stated problem at and he'd work out a solution. He also had mad Linux and OSS skills which was sadly lacking at the company I was working for.

    However, he was a bit odd, like Sheldon on Big Bang Theory (but a bit nicer). He was nervous with strangers. He had a certain way of living his life, and did not like change.

    So (after he was moved out of my group) the company came along and put him on the road by himself to visit customer sites across the country and meet new people in unfamiliar cities. He melted down and was let go after a few months of that.

    Some people were not meant to work with customers. Some people were not meant to work on amorphous technical problems. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. A good manager will recognize that, and maximize the performance of their reports (along the lines of the theorem of comparative advantage).

    I'm not saying you should never challenge your reports or encourage them to push their limits, but you should recognize that pushing them too far may break them.

    1. Re:different people have different strengths by evil_aaronm · · Score: 1

      Was sending him out to do what he was obviously not good at - dealing with unfamiliar people - intentional? Were they trying to "do him a favor" by getting him out of his comfort zone? I see it as one of two things: a manager who obviously didn't want the guy around and knew he'd fail; or a manager who was so clueless and unable to see that sending the guy out in this manner would set him up for failure.

  51. Can you label a whole article as Trolling? by chakan2 · · Score: 1

    Grain of salt: I'm probably one of the Jerks this guy is talking about.

    To me this seems like it was written from the perspective of a higher-up who can't get his way. I've been that person (I work at a LARGE corporation).
    An example of this was our leadership telling us to use a particular set of tools for our work. I was excited at the new suite of stuff because it was going to fill some gaping holes in our processes.

    However, after taking them out for a spin (usability and performance) we realized that this set of tools were going to fold under the load we were going to put them under. We had several other teams also working with the tools, but they were doing a fraction of the work we were doing.

    My team wrote papers, talked to upper management, and pulled every string we could to not pursue that contract.
    Because of that, I kind of committed career suicide, I was pushing the hardest not to use the new toolsI was labeled not a team player, and not being supportive of our corporate overlords.

    Thus, I shut up and put my head down to work and changed areas. (I have a house and kids, so switching jobs outright would be rough).
    It’s now 4 years later, and at the cost of hundreds of millions, we’ve dropped and transitioned that particular tool suite.

    TL;DR: The Jerks typically do have good ideas, they just don’t jive with leadership.

  52. Quite frankly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quite frankly, you should go to hell!

    - Brilliant Jerk who used to be just "Brilliant", till selfish vampires such as yourself sucked the blood right out of the our veins along with any tolerance we might have had for your arrogant self.

  53. Brilliant jerk or won't share with MBAs by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have seen these fights before and it usually comes down to shares. Often the Brilliant Jerk has a founder's fraction of the shares 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 and the new MBA types that have been hired (usually mostly in a sales capacity) are envious that when the big sale comes along that those few founders are going to get all the cheese. So they convince them to dilute but the so called jerk will say good for you, dilute your shares, mine stay as they are. He knows that the new MBA types are very replaceable now that they can just offer them a salary.

    The other variation of the brilliant jerk is that they have again a founder's share and the other founders are business types. The brilliant jerk did the programming of 10 to earn his share but now they have hired 20 programmers and the business people suddenly decide that the original programmer isn't carrying his weight anymore while they do all the big deals. So as the really big sellout comes they resent that while they "made it rain" that the brilliant jerk will get just as much as them. They rationalize that even if he is worth 10 programmers that they can now just hire 10 programmers for far less.

    Rarely, if ever, have I seen where the original founders were causing a problem for anyone except for getting in the way of self-entitled jerks.

    1. Re:Brilliant jerk or won't share with MBAs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rarely, if ever, have I seen where the original founders were causing a problem for anyone except for getting in the way of self-entitled jerks.

      This. The number of people I've seen whine about shares when they've come into a post-startup after the hard work, absurdly low salary, and survival on Ramen is long since over, is ridiculous.

      You want a double digit percentage of a company? Either lern2warrenbuffet, or be willing to take risks. No, landing a high-paying, stable job at an established company is not taking a risk.

    2. Re:Brilliant jerk or won't share with MBAs by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      I have a friend in situation #2. I'm not sure it's exactly tied to shares, but he commands the biggest salary in the company. They tried firing him, twice. Putting a manager over him. Hiring rockstar developers to take over. Each time there were problems and the big-boss (who pretty much lives on a yacht somewhere else) comes in and puts him back in charge to fix whatever went wrong.

      Having him train up minions to take over is their current plan and it's in the works. The code base is, let's say... messy... and he's the only one who knows how to handle it.

      He'd work elsewhere, but he'd have to move to command that sort of salary and family issues are keeping him local. Odd guy. Brilliant in his field. Turns out that when you know your un-fireable, you show up to work when you feel like it.

  54. At my company... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The brilliant jerk is the CEO. He was brilliant enough to hire someone (a badass that everyone loved and respected) to handle the day to day operations of the company, unfortunately he's also jerk enough to tie his hands to the wall preventing him from doing anything of substance. He got fed up and left and has since been replace with a smarmy douche.

  55. A jerk, really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "He was always the first to cover for doctors who were on call. He was always the first to volunteer to work on holidays."

    What a tool!

  56. Ask the Jerk how the business should move forward by who_stole_my_kidneys · · Score: 1

    Clearly the authors vision is different from the top producer, and most likely rightfully so. Your definition of moving forward is probably the same as everyone else's because its what you were taught and just follow a blue print for success. As much as i hate to admit Apple had this same scenario, they fired Steve Jobs (a real asshole) because he was not in line with the vision that all the other sheep had. After figuring that "the jerk" was a valuable assets they had dismissed , re-hired them and became one of the most profitable companies in history. On the flip side , "the jerk" should have no worries and should welcome new challenges just in spite of his previous employer.

  57. Spiders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are a bit like spiders. They produce that great silk that beats everything known to mankind, but they just can't be farmed because they eat each other.

    The solution : take their silk producing genes, put them in sheeps and cows, and milk these.

    Alternatively there have been some experiments at putting them in small individual cages, attached to a machine that extracts the silk. I wonder if that could be somehow applicable to coders.

  58. Brilliant != resentful by mrex · · Score: 1

    It sounds as if the author is describing a resentful employee. Whether (s)he's brilliant or not is pretty immaterial to that issue.

    Frankly, if the person's contributions were as pivotal to the success of the company as the piece makes them sound, and the employee didn't get to enjoy a fair share of the rewards of that effort, they have some justification for being resentful.

  59. Jerk...? by JustAnotherIdiot · · Score: 1

    I read through the definition of this brilliant "jerk", and I can't understand why it's tacked on.
    I see no indication that the aforementioned person is being a jerk, but so much as not really contributing to growth.
    On the other hand, he appears to be helping to keep the status quo, which is by no means a bad thing.
    Are you telling me you're going to fire a perfectly good worker because he may not have the best marketing skills?

    --
    What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
  60. Also... by JustAnotherIdiot · · Score: 1

    He was always the first to cover for doctors who were on call.
    He was always the first to volunteer to work on holidays.
    He was the first to get new training and share it with others one-on-one.

    Does this sound like a "jerk" to anyone?

    --
    What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
  61. Dear Cliff by BlackPignouf · · Score: 1

    Dear Cliff,

    I might be a brilliant jerk at my company, but you appear to be an ignorant asshole with low IQ and a way too high self-esteem.
    I don't want your overrated rapid growth, I don't want to see your sloppy management methods mess with our team, and I don't want to end up in more meetings that I need to, especially if they're not on the technical side.
    Now, get off my lawn and go find another company to vampirize!

  62. Microsoft and Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "The likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Roger Ailes have had no problem showing Brilliant Jerks the door, and all built world-class brands faster and better than the rest of us. "

    These guys are renowned for meetings resembling verbal wrestling matches.

    Naturally you don't tolerate insubordination yet the giants never shy away from vigorous argument and disagreement.

    This consultant must be a real idiot to imply causation between firing "jerks" and success of these companies while still expected to be taken seriously by anyone.

    Every situation is different and unique. Accepting this consultants antidontical evidence for a cookie cutter response is illadvisable.

  63. Re:Ask the Jerk how the business should move forwa by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

    No he got fired not only for being an asshole but a lousy businessman his division was loosing money and taking others down with him. The kick in the ass made him growup kinda.

    --
    Jack of all trades,master of none
  64. Age by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

    Depends on his age.

    If in the younger category (under 30), give him a position as a "secret advisor" for the top dogs. The rule is, in order for him to keep his job, that he has to provide his secret excellent awesome information to the superiors in a polite and well-rounded way or it will not be taken into consideration. If the ideas are well-presented and used, he will get public recognition and an occasional appearance under the right conditions, but not always visible.

    Wait, it sounds like I'm describing raising a bad kid. Well, that's my advice, and I'm sticking to it. :)

  65. I was the brilliant jerk ... once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I went to work for a really terrible company. The kind that once you're there for a couple months you realize was the inspiration for numerous 'Dilbert' comics and possibly the entire script of 'Office Space'. Except I didn't see it coming because it was a small-ish company; 75 employees when I started.

    I probably should have immediately found another job, but they hired me under the auspice of needing someone to help them "scale their infrastructure" because they were "rapidly growing" and my experience and skill set fit the bill. Neither could have been further from the truth.

    They had a CTO who was woefully under-qualified for the job and a VP of engineering who wrote something once in the dot-com that was snatched up for a pile of cash (it had since disappeared from the face of the earth, as far as I could find). I would come to find that both of them were very threatened by anyone who had the audacity to suggest their approach to something might not be the optimal one. And that they had been the original architects and authors of the company's current infrastructure. This ... was a bad combination.

    Leaving that company was quite possibly the best thing I ever did career-wise; I'm much happier now, am doing far more interesting work, and am actually appreciated and encouraged by the company for which I now work and its management. I should have done it sooner. Since then (3 years ago) their entire engineering group has turned over. A couple of them I poached, but most just moved on when they figured out that unless you smiled, nodded, and said "awesome!" to everything ... you were a "jerk".

  66. Re:Article has it Wrong by SchroedingersCat · · Score: 1

    The article describes a spectacular failure of being able to retain and accommodate creative talent. When company grows and management consultants move in and start laying out verticals and org charts then the bureaucracy sets in and top talent leaves because there is too much red tape to deal with. It looks from the article that the company failed to setup non-management vertical and allow people who have no desire to become managers to grow. The thing is that CEO or COO or another acronym would have benefited greatly from direct communication with Brilliant Jerk instead of relying on management vertical to percolate the message through. Lots' of successful tech companies have "distinguished engineers", "product fellows" or other non-management positions that report directly to the top management. Technology changes every 5 years. Getting rid of Brilliant Jerks is a direct path to obsolete products and becoming irrelevant in the marketplace. Examples are readily available: look at RIM, Nokia, Windows Mobile spectacular failures. You just cannot manage you way out of this one.

  67. The Jerk by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Jerk must be fed ... with pizza and Coca-Cola.

    It must be kept cool and in the shade during summer days and kept warm and cosy during the harsh storms of the winter.

    Always keep the Jerk dry and away from women.

    Do not talk with the Jerk unless about jerky things.

    The Jerk needs better and faster machines than the others, whom we do not want to mention here.

    That is the way to keep the Jerk ... to increase your wealth and wisdom.

  68. Taking part at the start, but not in at the finish by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The point of the article was a person who was the lynchpin in starting a business out of nothing and turning it into a rising star is often not well suited for steering a growing corporation, that is, managing a team that's grown large enough that not every decision is made by consensus of all the participants. When the business moves to this state, arrogance and stubbornness--the very qualities that made the "brilliant jerk" indispensible during the incubation of the company--make them jerks to the company trying to go mainstream.

    True enough.

    The correct way to deal with this is to divert them away from the corporate leadership structure and into a new start-up venture, where being brilliant and pig-headed once again becomes an asset. A good "brilliant jerk" can probably spark four or five new companies before the rough edges get worn off. Look at Steve Jobs, for example.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  69. Jerk-Faced Butthole by handy_vandal · · Score: 1

    "Jerk-Faced Butthole" is a something of regional insult, here in Minnesota.

    I know two guys who use it routinely -- both Native Americans, maybe it's a native thing -- and several other people who have picked up the phrase, perhaps from those two guys.

    --
    -kgj
    1. Re:Jerk-Faced Butthole by Culture20 · · Score: 2

      My bet is on "jerk-faced" being unrelated, stemming instead from "[beef] jerky" as a way to insult a leathery skinned person.

  70. What startups really need are by Skapare · · Score: 1

    People that are brilliant at business AND brilliant at technology. That person would be the starter of the business. But if a business is started by someone that doesn't meet both requirements, then they need to be brilliant at ONE of them AND also have the personality to GET ALONG with and WORK WELL with people who are brilliant in the other realm.

    BIG NO NO: do NOT require someone to be brilliant with both realms. Do not even require them to know much of the other. What is needed here is RESPECT for what someone does know. And that respect needs to work both ways. Ideally someone who is brilliant with business and ignorant of technology should get along with someone that is ignorant of business and brilliant with technology. It may help to have someone that is at least fairly knowledgeable of both to help make that work.

    I get to diss manager types in general because I know a few who are absolutely great at what they do. Same for techies.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  71. Re:kick them by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Oh my goodness, that comment and the related article are among the most vicious things I've ever seen.

    Both of you even admit you're begging for superhuman miracles at the beginning. "Look how fragile our business is!"

    But then when it begins to "require new staff", and all the meetings set in, "K Thx Bye" is the recommended course? If he doesn't have Priority Rights to stock and such, then it sounds like he's getting screwed. Why should he ever have bothered to start the business at all if he had foreseen this endgame? It's just fancily worded treachery. Yuck.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  72. i may be a jerk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i may be a jerk and i am may be brilliant but... what was that third thing you called me

  73. We had a Brilliant Jerk by puppetman · · Score: 1

    Very clever, had a hard time with showering and dressing. Obnoxious, loud, and full of unpleasant remarks, but mostly very productive at our small start-up.

    We didn't have to deal with him - he got dealt with by the police. Turns out his drug habit got him involved with not nice people, and in order to repay the money he owed them, he stole all the computers and monitors from our office once night. Some of my office mates got to see him arrested, as they left work after him one night.

    Brilliant, but impulsive, with no long-term thinking. He was like a 13-year-old boy in many regards.

    He got off on all charges, as he was coerced into committing his crime.

  74. Weird Definition of Jerk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He gets to be jerk because he is a brilliant specialized, high-producing performers? Then it sounds simple, as the company grows, the range of jobs in the company grows. Give him the one that will use his specialization and high production to the maximum. Since he is high producing, give him also a raise.

    You may also fire him, but other people may then stop trying to be high producing. What is the point of trying hard if the high producing people get to be fired?

    You should note that you redefined the original definition of jerk. They guy in the article did nothing jerky, he did not treated people badly, he did not manipulated and did not cheated. You do not want him in you management circle, because he is not like you. That is fair enough, but hardly a reason to call him jerk. That choice of word actually says more about you than about him.

  75. Not Seeing the Jerk? by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 1

    From the article:

    He was always the first to cover for doctors who were on call. He was always the first to volunteer to work on holidays. He had the most articles published by the American Medical Association. He was the first to get new training and share it with others one-on-one. And by the way, he was the highest revenue producer of all the doctors in the group. In fact, he was producing twice the revenue of some of the doctors. He had been the third doctor to join the group and without his revenue, the start-up could not have been successful.

    *rolls eyes* Oh yeah, sounds like a TERRIBLE person to work with.

  76. "Brilliant" Jerk? by JosephTX · · Score: 1

    The office jerk is pretty much never the smartest person at the company. If he was, he'd have the sense to shut up and realize when he's just being an ass. But he doesn't, because he's not brilliant; he only thinks he is.

    So what do you do with him? Fire him and grab someone who's actually a team player: Something pretty important for any tech company.

  77. Don't take the article's advice. by operagost · · Score: 1

    If you take the writer's advice, you'll fire Steve Jobs as Apple did. They nearly failed. Hilariously, the author cites Steve Jobs as an example of a CEO that wasn't "afraid to show brilliant jerks the door."

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  78. Specialized high-producing jerks? by dgharmon · · Score: 1

    "The likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Roger Ailes have had no problem showing Brilliant Jerks the door"

    At least two of those could be described as their own 'brilliant jerk' and one of these was eventually hired back on, the other couldn't be fired. The jury's still out on how much damage he did to the computer industry. Roger Ailes is President of Faux News.

    --
    AccountKiller
  79. Follow the holiday start-up concept by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is this nice concept called "the holiday startup". This is definitely the best way to deal with it.

  80. The first step to a faulty solution by hey! · · Score: 1

    is mislabeling the problem.

    The problem here isn't "brilliant jerks", it's people who made important contributions to the company in the past, but whose *current* behavior is harming the company. Many "brilliant jerks" are a mixed bag, but continue to be of great value to the company (for example Steve Jobs).

    The answer is much simpler when you define the problem as the employee having become a net negative contributor. If you can't fix that fast, you get rid of those guys. I personally learned the hard way that by trying too hard to fix a troublesome employee, you end up being unfair to all the people who have to work with him.

    If gratitude is a psychological obstacle, give the guy a fat bonus and then fire him. Suppose the employee is costing you a million dollars a year. That's not hard for a well placed bad employee, who can wreck projects multiple teams are working on, lose key customers, and mire you in consequences for years to come. So the guy is going to cost you a million bucks next year. *Split it with him*. Give him a half-million dollars to go away, and you're *both* a half-million ahead of where you would have been. That sounds insane, but it's less insane than burning a million bucks and *nobody* benefiting.

    As for actual "brilliant jerks", their contribution and net impact have to be regularly evaluated.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:The first step to a faulty solution by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      If you can't fix that fast, you get rid of those guys.

      No, if you can't fix that, you resign and sell used cars for the rest of your life.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  81. MOD DOWN THE SOCK PUPPET! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    udachny is a sock puppet of roman_mir and does not deserve to be modded up.

  82. Re:Taking part at the start, but not in at the fin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What? Early on, decisions are made by consensus so someone arrogant and stubborn does well? And then a large business is not run by consensus so arrogance gets in the way of what now? Nothing you said makes the slightest sense to me.

  83. excellent leaders find the good in any situation by Adammil2000 · · Score: 1

    Jerk or not, brilliant people are rare and incredibly useful. If you can't figure out how to minimize the jerk aspect while maximizing the brilliance, then you're not being very effective. In fact, this ability is one way to define an excellent business leader.

  84. Re:Taking part at the start, but not in at the fin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The point of the article was a person who was the lynchpin in starting a business out of nothing and turning it into a rising star is often not well suited for steering a growing corporation, that is, managing a team that's grown large enough that not every decision is made by consensus of all the participants. When the business moves to this state, arrogance and stubbornness--the very qualities that made the "brilliant jerk" indispensible during the incubation of the company--make them jerks to the company trying to go mainstream.

    True enough.

    The correct way to deal with this is to divert them away from the corporate leadership structure and into a new start-up venture, where being brilliant and pig-headed once again becomes an asset. A good "brilliant jerk" can probably spark four or five new companies before the rough edges get worn off. Look at Steve Jobs, for example.

    Wait, what? You had me right up until that last statement. Are you saying that Steve Jobs is the exception that proves the rule? 'Cause if you're not, you make no sense. Brilliant jerk he may have been, but he was normally not diverted away from Apple's corporate management structure. On the contrary, he was at the head of it, and when he was not there, the company was not as successful as when he was.

  85. Brilliant Jerks or Exploitative Management? by atticus9 · · Score: 2

    On the flip side of this article - I worked with start-ups that followed the same pattern of growing the business to ~50 people then deciding it was because of genius management that they were successful and they didn't need their star engineers (plural) anymore. So they use the profits to give all the executive big bonuses, hire middle managers to effectively demote engineers and make it clear they're expendable. The star engineers get disgusted and leave the company, in the short term everything's fine and management congratulates themselves for removing the "egomaniacs" from the team that they clearly didn't need.

    Then, inexplicably, growth starts to decline; tasks that used to take weeks are now lagging for months. New features are buggy, unreliable, and unpolished. The company's no longer getting rave reviews.

    The executives decide it's because there's not enough process governing how software is developed, the company "has been lucky, but we need to grow up", so they hire a consultant to impose best practices on how features are developed and releases are handled. Involving lots of documentation, committees, and approval chains. Productivity drops further, there's a disaster or two, and investors start getting antsy.

    Management will remind them of earlier successes, that it's the same management team so there's no need to worry, but to hedge their bets they have a round of layoffs to focus the team and reduce costs. They outsource the "grunt work" of software engineering to cheaper suppliers. Things get worse, and a long and painful failure ensues.

  86. Fuck you, Cliff Oxford by HeckRuler · · Score: 2

    I define Brilliant Jerks as specialized, high-producing performers.

    "Jerk"? This is one of the many, many, reasons that technical geeks hate business people.

    I have listened to Brilliant Jerks proclaim, “I am the one who is always on call, who drives the most revenue, who is here on weekends and who has the knowledge.” And the Brilliant Jerk speaks the truth. But I have also seen him stick his head in the door and deflate an entire management team. A growth company needs enablers, not disablers.

    Whoa there. Whoa. So... the guy that does the work and who knows where the big problems are, like the code is a horrible mess of spaghetti, shouldn't tell anyone what those problems are because.... it'll make the managers sad?
    Really?

    So what’s the right answer? Get rid of the Brilliant Jerk as fast as you possibly can.

    Hey guys, there's like, one single engineer who knows how all off this stuff works. He said this thing at my last meeting? Really got me down. Let's get rid of him. We're a growing company, I'm sure those highschool grads we hired and a couple entry level engineers who handled their own section before will be up to the task. I mean, it's not like the entire code-base was a one-man spaghetti-code mess right?

  87. Put them in Management by Otis+B.+Dilroy+III · · Score: 1

    Isn't that where they always end up anyway?

  88. Groupthink by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 1

    He was the one doctor who dampened the unity with subtle but consistent complaining about why the group couldn’t do some things and shouldn’t do others.

    "Direct pressure to conform placed on any member who questions the group, couched in terms of 'disloyalty'" is a symptom of Groupthink

  89. Elbonia! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Send him to Elbonia, it's worked before!

  90. Fire him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hire a brilliant person who's not a jerk, won't drive off other employees, won't get you sued for harassment, won't pitch hissy fits, and will contribute positively to the success of the company and not just her own ego.

  91. don't need brilliant engineers? by farble1670 · · Score: 1

    They are not, however, brilliant business people, and that is what companies need during periods of rapid growth.

    that's wrong. you need both. you can have brilliant business people but if you don't have brilliant engineers to build prototypes and demos, you aren't going to get very far.

    you might answer that you don't need brilliant engineers, you just need competent ones. if all it took was competent engineers to build your idea, guess what? someone else would have already built it ... and if not, someone else that has the same idea is going to hire brilliant engineers (or just more / better competent ones) and beat you to the bunch.

  92. Had one of those at Divine by thesandtiger · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Years ago I worked at a place called Divine Interventures in their "Buzz" group. We had a guy - he was the webmaster/developer guy, one of the first employees, etc.

    Guy had ideas for graph design that were better than what the designers came up with, came up with awesome ideas pretty much whenever we had a problem, but was kind of brusque.

    He got laid off in the first wave (and was smart to do it - one of the only people to get a full severance package when the companyimploded, and literally started his new job the next day) and about a month after that we got written up in a magazine as being a great place to work in Chicago. There were several specific things pointed out in the article as why it was so great, and when the CEO was holding an all hands meeting to congratulate us, she asked who came up with idea one, and it was pointed out this guy did. Then idea two and... Same guy. Then idea three and... Same guy. "Well, decisions like laying him off are probably why we're going out of business," the only honest thing I've ever heard from a CEO.

    If they are really brilliant, it's worth keeping them around.

    --
    Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
  93. From my experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Manage them well. Enable and encourage them to do the brillant. Protect others from the 'jerk' part of their personality. If they are bullying others then there should be workplace policies that you can use to discipline/correct them. Often these kinds of people prefer to work on their own anyway. Mentor them and use teaching opportunities that come up to help them to see things from other people's perspective. Keep meeting one to one with them to review how they are going. Praise in public, correct in private.

  94. Given the name you have assigned them... by HiThere · · Score: 1

    I assume, given the name that you have assigned to them, that you hate them. As such I don't feel encouraged that you would accept any reasonable suggestion.

    There do exist people who deserve the appellation "brilliant jerk", but this is a far narrower category than just everyone who doesn't want to be a business major. (I notice that I'm being hyperbolic in my turn. So take that as an exaggeration of what you were saying. It's not basically wrong.)

    That said, and since you appear to want them to leave, perhaps you should let them know. I suspect that they have no idea that you want them to leave, as one of the common characteristics of those who focus on technical skills is a lack of finer social skills. Perhaps you could offer to leave their names with headhunters. Working in a job where management hates your guts isn't a nice thing to discover, so once they discovered your attitude they might be pleased with the assistance...once they recovered from the bitter realization. In fact they might *prefer* to work for your competition.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  95. Don't Grow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously. Growth is folly. That way lies greed and death. Never go public either, they force the death issue by way of requiring cancerous growth.

    I've been there and done that. I'm the "Brilliant Jerk", and this time around I'm the Damn Boss too. This time we don't grow, not nearly as fast. We stay small, specialized and agile -- We found a niche, and can eat our fill. There is so much work, we turn down customers. We never have to under bid. We can take our pick of the job, and do it at a premium because this time we're a well oiled machine.

    Building out more features requires more maintenance, so we keep feature creep to a minumum and only add new features once we have skilled manpower for maintenance (EoL a less used product/feature if we have to) -- There's no secondary sub-standard "maintenance" team, everyone does a small share of the drudge work, and the glamorous work as well. Work hours are comfortable, and "Crunch Time" is not in our vocabulary -- We're more productive when well rested instead of rode hard and put up wet.

    I'm a nice guy, but I can be a jerk at times -- Typically when shit hits the fan, or I'm surrounded by morons. Thus, we're not going anywhere near either of those eventualites. It's all brilliant jerks as far as the eye can see. We all geek out and have a grand time giving the finger to the "best business practices" of Growth and Diversification. We're hunting for other niches in R&D, but will not grow a new limb to fill them, we'll migrate if the grass is actually greener.

    To answer the submitter's question: You're already fucked if you're not the Brilliant Jerk. Either work towards becoming brilliant yourself, or Kill yourself -- You're the kind of cancerous parasite that eventually kills the host; We're all better off without you.

  96. Grow The Jerk by erik.erikson · · Score: 1

    As a reformed previous "brilliant jerk" one of the things I came to realize was that during that time my jerkishness was motivated by being requested and incented, even required, toward such behaviors but to be straightforward, it was also a result of my limitations of understanding and experience in working with people. What I needed was someone to help me understand the social side of the business and the greater value and advantage I could drive through greater diplomacy, empathy, and constructivity within my communications.

    You might just find that you evolve the individual as well as the culture of the company while demonstrating loyalty and caring to and for your employees while retaining the talent and capability, accelerating broader productivity, and improving morale.

  97. Actually Manage the "Jerk"? by bobbutts · · Score: 2

    If you let your people do whatever they want, some of them will do things you don't like. Try managing them, if you're not sure how, you can find classes at most colleges.

  98. Get someone else by Goldsmith · · Score: 1

    I've worked with "Brilliant Jerks" before. As a physicist, that's a large population of my colleagues. In every instance I've encountered a person like this, a team of "regular brilliant" people working well together outperforms the jerks by a landslide.

    Being effective is different than being smart and requires teamwork at high levels.

    Get rid of the jerks and get someone who knows how to use intensity, passion and knowledge as part of a team.

  99. USA = world's longest strike? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Well it was their own fault. They had perfectly good management, but chose to get rid of it in 1776.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:USA = world's longest strike? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      And here I was thinking that your "perfectly good management" should've been the "first against the wall when the Revolution came." ;)

  100. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  101. Define jerk by guruevi · · Score: 1

    Why is he a jerk? Usually the really geeky brilliant people are nice although somewhat difficult to deal with socially (they're a different breed after all) but the jerks are those not-so-brilliant ones that pose as being the end-all-be-all of the business while their escapades appear on thedailywtf a couple of years later after they've flown the coop.

    Back to the point, if he is really brilliant and he is really a jerk, keep him away from your customers and that's about it. Give him what he wants and you'll have a happy jerk that nobody needs to interact with.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  102. Beware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    May I suggest that you begone, lest he replace you with a very small shell script.

  103. Here is an idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have them apply for academic jobs...

  104. Re:kick them by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

    Aww, you still have your empathy intact. How quaint. But in the world of business, there is no place for such a weakness.

  105. Effing Creepy by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    In other words: "How can I, as a craven and souless businessman, wring the most out of the actual creators without them putting up much fuss or even realize that I'm slipping a knife into their guts?"

  106. A jerk is a jerk whether or not they are brilliant by Liambp · · Score: 1

    The original article seems to have raised a lot of geek hackles because of the implication that you need to con bright people into performing miracles to get your company off the ground and then promptly fire them as soon as the company starts to grow.

    What every one seems to be missing is that there are plenty of brilliant people who are not jerks and there are plenty of jerks who are far from brilliant. I would strongly support the idea of getting rid of jerks because I have seen the damage they can do to organisations but you are firing them because they are jerks not because they are brilliant.

  107. Spin off a new company by Baldrson · · Score: 1

    Give the jerk his due. On condition that he train his replacements in the current business, spin off a new company to let the jerk pursue his best brilliant idea, the potential of which you are too stupid to understand. Provide enough capital to hire the necessary management to make it a business success if it is viable and then provide no further investment.

  108. No one is irreplaceable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So fire his ass.

  109. Let them maintain the software they wrote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they are programmers, people like this crank out lots of second rate software and then leave it to everyone else to clean up. They may appear productive only because everyone around them has to compensate for their quick and dirty work.

  110. Let me assemble my team of Six-Sigma Black Belts by company+suckup · · Score: 0

    and I'll get back to you on that.

  111. Article & Comments by gpronger · · Score: 1

    Now, I did not go through all the comments on /., but I did read most on the blog. Here's the interesting part, if you did that, what you'd find is that the commenters on the referenced article largely said the problem was not the "Brilliant Jerk", but the management team that can't make use of the individual. Fundamentally, the point is, the article was written by Dilbert's pointy haired boss.

    Key to a good manager and management team, is talent utilization. You succeed or fail here. The article, basically said, well I can't manage him, so fire him, and quickly.

  112. Where innovation comes to die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So this post just exemplifies why companies and business suck. When the start-up is new, they are breaking ground all the time until they decide to become big business aka. "old business men" and start bringing in the HR, Finance and Lawyer drones. The company normally is then driven by those departments and not the founders. They fundamentally lose their soles and innovative spirit and trade it in for cash and a revenue stream. I bet if you asked most of these so called "Jerks" about their thoughts on their income they would actually care more about their problem domain than their bank account balance. This article is rubbish, imho keep startups small enough to please the founding members, or find a really good bunch of non-tech drones to make the company go in the direction of innovation no bank balances.

  113. Marissa Mayer on topic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why are we talking about what start-ups should do with someone like Marissa Mayer?

    Oh wait, you also said "brilliant"?

    Whoops, my bad, sorry.

  114. Re:Article has it Wrong by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    Yeah. As a business in the tech area, you have to stay different (differentiated from your would be competition)
    or you will be dead.

    Lose the "brilliant jerk" and your company will likely start dying, although some I imagine can live on their fat reserves for a long time.

    So my advice would be to keep the brilliant jerk in charge, but temper them with another brilliant but also more business minded
    peer at the very top of the company. I feel the trouble is really going to start happening when you start letting the VCs on the board
    make the decisions. You are going to get ultr-conservative and technically tone-deaf decisions and senior hires then.

    So avoid that. Stay revenue-funded as long as possible.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?