That's a lot of vitriol for somebody whose reading comprehension is obviously lacking. pato101 was talking about compiling from source, not installing with pkgtool.
How did you ever learn to use Slackware with such terrible reading comprehension ability? Did they dumb it down?
I'll have to look into checkinstall. Yours isn't the only reply suggesting it.
I'd definitely be interested in your script.
Now that you mention it, hardware support is probably the largest reason why I switched to Ubuntu (although my reasons stand for why I originally quit Slackware). I forgot about that. I don't mind compiling my own kernel and such, but some hardware is a real pain in the butt beyond just kernel issues.
Why is that moderated "Funny"? It should be "Insightful".
I used to use Slackware. Then, I decided I needed to learn to use GUI tools to configure stuff, and that maybe packaging has improved, so I started using other Linuxen. I used Yoper. I used SuSE. I tried others (Debian, Redhat, Fedora, ad nauseum). These days I'm using Ubuntu (Breezy Badger).
I hate dependecy hell.
I never used to have that problem with Slackware. There were two ways to install programs. 1. pkgadd (or addpkg?) foobar.tgz -- always Just Plain Worked(tm). 2. wget sourceforge.net/packagename.tar.gz && tar xvzf packagename.tar.gz && cd packagename &&./configure && make && sudo make install. Then, if./configure fails, I'd just install whatever it was missing. All I had to do was chase dependencies; once I found them, I never had to fight with them. Occasionally, something would fail on make, and I'd have to ask a newsgroup/mailing list/web forum for help -- and the troubleshooting was generally easy.
With modern packaging systems, there's occasionally a dependency that is just automatically marked and installed, but mostly it just becomes impossible to install something -- and I fear to install from source as in option 2 above, for I may break the packaging system. A package depends on packages X, Y, and Z, each of which have ten dependencies, and most of which conflict with others, or are reported as "won't be installed" but no reason is given. If I find a way to force it, it doesn't work, or it breaks other packages, or most likely it breaks the packaging system.
The last time I used a BSD, I was extremely impressed with their packages and their "ports" system. Ports automates my option 2 above, including retrieval of dependencies. The packages system, IIRC, allows you to package up your compiled and installed ports, and labels the package with exactly the conditions under which it was packaged, before contributing it to the repository; and if the packaging program tells you that a package is available, it will Just Plain Work(tm). If it's not available, you spend two minutes waiting for ports to compile the program.
I recently was thinking of trying FreeBSD for exactly that reason.
They live long, but you wish they wouldn't. Well, _I_ wish they wouldn't.
The damnfool idiots need surgeries all the time, produce twice their body volume (that's twelve times their body weight) in feces daily (most of which they do indoors; these days they have their own room with a doggy door and a sheet of rubber under a scrap carpet), and never shut up. Oh, and they smell awful (must be from rolling around in shit). For awhile, in their own room, they were quiet, but lately they've taken to fighting with eachother...
My wife got them before we were married. I wish she had gotten a hypnotoad instead. ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD.
Don't forget to fire off a few aerosol cans powered by CFCs...that'll warm the place right up.
Actually, I'm really enjoying this global warming. Summer was mild here in the northeast USA, and we're halfway through december and have only seen a few days of freezing weather. Sweet!
XP is built on a base derived from VMS (I think). so, if Apple is on Unix, Windows is on VMS. You don't have to change to go with VMS.
I would have to change, since I use Linux.
That would be funny if XP could somehow be connected with VMS, but I doubt it, and a quick googling doesn't support it either.
Windows, of course, has its origin in DOS. It was originally an add-on to DOS. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS : "MS-DOS began as QDOS (for Quick and Dirty Operating System), [...] QDOS function calls were based on the dominant CP/M-80 operating system, written by Digital Research, but it used a different file system."
So, as much as I'd like to see that, and be able to say "Hah! You like Windows? It's based on much-reviled VMS!", it appears to be false.
I used to use VMS on a VAX into which I dialed for my internet access. SLIRP was not available on it, so I had to do everything in a VMS shell -- and this was over 15 years ago, before I heard of Linux. If I wanted to download a file, I had to FTP it in the shell account and them zmodem it into my computer. Luckily it had zmodem, else I'd have had to use ymodem or -- god forbid -- xmodem (imagine, having to type in the filename!). Actually, ymodem-g was quick but I didn't have an error-correcting modem so I couldn't depend on anything transferred with ymodem-g to be uncorrupted.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Until now, all I remembered of those days was that the VMS FTP client would tell you how much you've received and how much was left if you hit CTRL-I, a feature still not found in most operating systems' default FTP clients.
You've brought up another point that I forgot: Insurance. Be sure that your homeowner's insurance and umbrella policy and whatever else cover your house while unoccupied. Ask your agent about it; you may find that you need to buy special (read: expensive) insurance if you want it to be covered while it's unoccupied.
I wasn't being sarcastic, as such. I saw a post oversimplifying the matter. I responded in kind, to point out that it was oversimplified. A demonstration is usually an effective way to make a point. I figured I didn't need to spell it out for folks like you who are endowed with less intelligence.
Allow me to ease your mind: You don't have to worry, I wouldn't switch from Linux to VMS even if it was possible.
The mods read between the lines to see my point, which was reiterated by every reply so far, all of which thought they were arguing against me.
My point, which was obvious to nearly everybody who didn't reply, was that the post about lines of code was a rather shallow way to look at it and that there's definitely more to it.
Er, well, actually, that link was to today's strip. I don't know why the link was described on the page as the August 26, 2003 strip. Today's strip is coincidentally relevant, though.
Uh-oh...time to change my machine to run VMS, then. Linux is catching up to Windows, according to http://www.dwheeler.com/sloc/ which says of RedHat 7.1: "It includes over 30 million physical source lines of code (SLOC)."
It also says: "They found that Debian 2.2 includes more than 55 million physical SLOC", and "Debian 3.1 ("Sarge") had grown to about 230 million source lines of code".
And for other Windows versions: "Windows NT 5.0 (in 2000) was 20M SLOC, Windows 2000 (in 2001) was 35M SLOC, and Windows XP (in 2002) was 40M SLOC".
Biodiesel could be a near drop-in replacement for gasoline in cars
Wow! Where do I sign up?
At the import car dealership. European passenger cars with diesel engines will become more widely available
Sorry, that doesn't replace "gasoline in cars"; it replaces gasoline powered cars. Biodiesel isn't a drop-in replacement for gasoline; it's a drop-in replacement for dino-diesel. You could say that diesel cars are a drop-in replacement for gasoline cars, which is fine if you don't mind driving a little Volkswagen. I enjoy big, soft, comfy, American cars. Hopefully, with ULSD making possible more variety of diesel cars, we'll get something that I like.
I also enjoy big, rough, capable American trucks, so I can just get a diesel pickup and run that on my choice of fuels...except they're really freaking expensive.
I also remember that mixing the vegetable oil with (bio)diesel solves the temperature problem.
Besides losing the wow factor of running entirely on lightly processed garbage, that also has the problem of not being very effective. That's just dumping some oil into the existing fuel tank. In any decent quantity, and possibly even in small quantities, it has the same problems as running 100% SVO, but it just takes longe for the symptoms to manifest. That's all coming from an armchair quarterback, though; I've never had the opportunity to try it myself.
The problem here that I see is that we are theoretically close enough to fuel cells and electric cars powered by them that it doesn't seem worthwhile to pursue biodiesel or other renewable/eco-friendly carbon variants. This creates a problem for adoption, why should I adopt a fuel that's not widely circulated when the base tech is going to be obsolete Real Soon Now?
I'll address my skepticism on electric cars later. As for adopting BD, you're looking at a question of "Why not?". It's a drop-in replacement. For VO, I'd like to see the conversions more consumerized, but it would still be a niche market, and if made easier the market for free waste oil would saturate quickly -- which would be good. One big step would be nice, but a series of baby steps would be nothing to sneeze at too.
Had we switched out for biodiesel in 1920, it would be a different story, and we could have done so. I don't know if the chemical process was known at the time, but I suspect it was.
There was no reason to back then. There wasn't the pollution problem. There wasn't the supposed (and maybe correct) limit to the supply of dino-juice. There certainly wasn't the issue of political problems and possibly wars related to it. If I understand correctly, the primitive crude oil refining was going to produce what we call diesel fuel whether or not anybody wanted it, and if it wasn't burned then it would have to be discarded. These days, advanced refining techniques can change the ratios of output of different products, although you're probably still stuck getting a significant portion of diesel.
In any case, the infrastructure needed to support it isn't as dramatic as people put it.
Indeed, not at all. Biodiesel is as much a drop-in replacement as the Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel that is now being dropped in; both scare some people, can damage a minority of engines (and BD's damage is cheap to repair), and otherwise just plain work.
I agree with everything you said about algae farms. Don't forget the (amazing, to me) thing about algae farming of raw sewage that makes biodiesel and safe-to-dispose cleaned sewage. From http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1 &ObjectID=10381404 which was posted to/. as http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1 &ObjectID=10381404 - "Aquaflow's algae, however, were derived from excess pond discharge from the Marlborough District Council's sewage treatment works. Algae take most chemicals out of sewage, but having too many of them taints the water and produces a foul smell. Creating fuel from the algae removes the problem while producing useful clean water, said Mr Leay. The clean water can then be used for stock food, irrigation and, if treated properly, for human consumption." AFAIK, we currently have no way to recycle sewage.
If we have alternatives that don't require big oil companies and politicians, then we won't have the companies and politicians (a good goal in and of itself).
Now there's some unrealistic idealism. When that happens, we'll also mine champagne from the ground and eat rainbow stew. Sounds good, but it
I have seen startling statistics on the quantity of used cooking oil put in landfills, however, I figured not everybody is doing that. Now that I'm thinking about it, I probably only saw those statistics on websites about WVO and biodiesel. Indeed, a little googling provides an article that at least implies that it's done both ways: http://www.allbusiness.com/accommodation-food-serv ices/food-services-drinking-places/326115-1.html
From http://www.hawaii-county.com/weeklynewsletter/arch ives/2004/090304.htm - "Cooking Oil: Nearly 64,000 gallons of used cooking oil from local businesses were diverted from landfills for use as biodiesel under diversion grants awarded by Hawai`i County." I guess that they weren't recycling it there, before.
Well said. That's good enough for me! "This call may be recorded" indeed could easily be interpreted as "You may record this call". Usually they preface it with "For quality control purposes"; and there could be no argument that you are recording it for any other purpose.
That's all food for thought, but I was replying to the notion that the fact that their notification of recording was in and of itself consent for you to record also.
If all you are worried about is burst pipes, you aren't familiar with the results of leaving a building unoccupied. The only way to be sure it will remain in good condition is to have somebody live there every day. Sure, they won't clean the shower the way you like, and they'll break your toaster oven, but the house won't get robbed by a burglar who targets unoccupied houses (happened to my parents at two different houses), won't get burst pipes, won't have a roof leak that destroys everything because it wasn't fixed, won't get infested with pests, and so on.
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That's a lot of vitriol for somebody whose reading comprehension is obviously lacking. pato101 was talking about compiling from source, not installing with pkgtool.
How did you ever learn to use Slackware with such terrible reading comprehension ability? Did they dumb it down?
I'll have to look into checkinstall. Yours isn't the only reply suggesting it.
I'd definitely be interested in your script.
Now that you mention it, hardware support is probably the largest reason why I switched to Ubuntu (although my reasons stand for why I originally quit Slackware). I forgot about that. I don't mind compiling my own kernel and such, but some hardware is a real pain in the butt beyond just kernel issues.
Why is that moderated "Funny"? It should be "Insightful".
./configure && make && sudo make install. Then, if ./configure fails, I'd just install whatever it was missing. All I had to do was chase dependencies; once I found them, I never had to fight with them. Occasionally, something would fail on make, and I'd have to ask a newsgroup/mailing list/web forum for help -- and the troubleshooting was generally easy.
I used to use Slackware. Then, I decided I needed to learn to use GUI tools to configure stuff, and that maybe packaging has improved, so I started using other Linuxen. I used Yoper. I used SuSE. I tried others (Debian, Redhat, Fedora, ad nauseum). These days I'm using Ubuntu (Breezy Badger).
I hate dependecy hell.
I never used to have that problem with Slackware. There were two ways to install programs.
1. pkgadd (or addpkg?) foobar.tgz -- always Just Plain Worked(tm).
2. wget sourceforge.net/packagename.tar.gz && tar xvzf packagename.tar.gz && cd packagename &&
With modern packaging systems, there's occasionally a dependency that is just automatically marked and installed, but mostly it just becomes impossible to install something -- and I fear to install from source as in option 2 above, for I may break the packaging system. A package depends on packages X, Y, and Z, each of which have ten dependencies, and most of which conflict with others, or are reported as "won't be installed" but no reason is given. If I find a way to force it, it doesn't work, or it breaks other packages, or most likely it breaks the packaging system.
The last time I used a BSD, I was extremely impressed with their packages and their "ports" system. Ports automates my option 2 above, including retrieval of dependencies. The packages system, IIRC, allows you to package up your compiled and installed ports, and labels the package with exactly the conditions under which it was packaged, before contributing it to the repository; and if the packaging program tells you that a package is available, it will Just Plain Work(tm). If it's not available, you spend two minutes waiting for ports to compile the program.
I recently was thinking of trying FreeBSD for exactly that reason.
It's late and I'm tired...exactly what tuning happens behind the scenes there? It does seem effective.
Try owning dachshunds. That'll fix that problem.
They live long, but you wish they wouldn't. Well, _I_ wish they wouldn't.
The damnfool idiots need surgeries all the time, produce twice their body volume (that's twelve times their body weight) in feces daily (most of which they do indoors; these days they have their own room with a doggy door and a sheet of rubber under a scrap carpet), and never shut up. Oh, and they smell awful (must be from rolling around in shit). For awhile, in their own room, they were quiet, but lately they've taken to fighting with eachother...
My wife got them before we were married. I wish she had gotten a hypnotoad instead. ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD.
Put down the crackpipe. User "garcia" was obviously the whooshee, not you (assuming you're the same AC who posted the link to Davinci's).
Don't forget to fire off a few aerosol cans powered by CFCs...that'll warm the place right up.
Actually, I'm really enjoying this global warming. Summer was mild here in the northeast USA, and we're halfway through december and have only seen a few days of freezing weather. Sweet!
*Whoosh!*
Those terms would also be common in non-store results. It's a good idea though; maybe stuff like -"add to cart" -"shopping cart"...
It's hard to feel entertained when I feel motion-sick...so I guess I could say the 3d games aren't entertaining for me, either.
That would be funny if XP could somehow be connected with VMS, but I doubt it, and a quick googling doesn't support it either.
Windows, of course, has its origin in DOS. It was originally an add-on to DOS. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS :
"MS-DOS began as QDOS (for Quick and Dirty Operating System), [...] QDOS function calls were based on the dominant CP/M-80 operating system, written by Digital Research, but it used a different file system."
So, as much as I'd like to see that, and be able to say "Hah! You like Windows? It's based on much-reviled VMS!", it appears to be false.
Much to my surprise, VMS is still alive and well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenVMS
I used to use VMS on a VAX into which I dialed for my internet access. SLIRP was not available on it, so I had to do everything in a VMS shell -- and this was over 15 years ago, before I heard of Linux. If I wanted to download a file, I had to FTP it in the shell account and them zmodem it into my computer. Luckily it had zmodem, else I'd have had to use ymodem or -- god forbid -- xmodem (imagine, having to type in the filename!). Actually, ymodem-g was quick but I didn't have an error-correcting modem so I couldn't depend on anything transferred with ymodem-g to be uncorrupted.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Until now, all I remembered of those days was that the VMS FTP client would tell you how much you've received and how much was left if you hit CTRL-I, a feature still not found in most operating systems' default FTP clients.
You've brought up another point that I forgot: Insurance. Be sure that your homeowner's insurance and umbrella policy and whatever else cover your house while unoccupied. Ask your agent about it; you may find that you need to buy special (read: expensive) insurance if you want it to be covered while it's unoccupied.
"Band Members Kenny Wilson. Also plays with rock band The Lizzards and 60s themed duo White Rabbit (play psychedelic classics). Helen Butterfield plays violin and sings on the tracks on this site."
from http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=u
I wasn't being sarcastic, as such. I saw a post oversimplifying the matter. I responded in kind, to point out that it was oversimplified. A demonstration is usually an effective way to make a point. I figured I didn't need to spell it out for folks like you who are endowed with less intelligence.
Allow me to ease your mind: You don't have to worry, I wouldn't switch from Linux to VMS even if it was possible.
The mods read between the lines to see my point, which was reiterated by every reply so far, all of which thought they were arguing against me.
My point, which was obvious to nearly everybody who didn't reply, was that the post about lines of code was a rather shallow way to look at it and that there's definitely more to it.
Uh-oh...time to change my machine to run VMS, then. Linux is catching up to Windows, according to http://www.dwheeler.com/sloc/ which says of RedHat 7.1: "It includes over 30 million physical source lines of code (SLOC)."
It also says: "They found that Debian 2.2 includes more than 55 million physical SLOC", and "Debian 3.1 ("Sarge") had grown to about 230 million source lines of code".
And for other Windows versions: "Windows NT 5.0 (in 2000) was 20M SLOC, Windows 2000 (in 2001) was 35M SLOC, and Windows XP (in 2002) was 40M SLOC".
Finally, it links to a Dilbert strip that describes other types of security vulnerabilities: http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/
I also enjoy big, rough, capable American trucks, so I can just get a diesel pickup and run that on my choice of fuels...except they're really freaking expensive.
Besides losing the wow factor of running entirely on lightly processed garbage, that also has the problem of not being very effective. That's just dumping some oil into the existing fuel tank. In any decent quantity, and possibly even in small quantities, it has the same problems as running 100% SVO, but it just takes longe for the symptoms to manifest. That's all coming from an armchair quarterback, though; I've never had the opportunity to try it myself.
I'll address my skepticism on electric cars later. As for adopting BD, you're looking at a question of "Why not?". It's a drop-in replacement. For VO, I'd like to see the conversions more consumerized, but it would still be a niche market, and if made easier the market for free waste oil would saturate quickly -- which would be good. One big step would be nice, but a series of baby steps would be nothing to sneeze at too.
There was no reason to back then. There wasn't the pollution problem. There wasn't the supposed (and maybe correct) limit to the supply of dino-juice. There certainly wasn't the issue of political problems and possibly wars related to it. If I understand correctly, the primitive crude oil refining was going to produce what we call diesel fuel whether or not anybody wanted it, and if it wasn't burned then it would have to be discarded. These days, advanced refining techniques can change the ratios of output of different products, although you're probably still stuck getting a significant portion of diesel.
Indeed, not at all. Biodiesel is as much a drop-in replacement as the Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel that is now being dropped in; both scare some people, can damage a minority of engines (and BD's damage is cheap to repair), and otherwise just plain work.
/. as http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1 &ObjectID=10381404 - "Aquaflow's algae, however, were derived from excess pond discharge from the Marlborough District Council's sewage treatment works. Algae take most chemicals out of sewage, but having too many of them taints the water and produces a foul smell. Creating fuel from the algae removes the problem while producing useful clean water, said Mr Leay. The clean water can then be used for stock food, irrigation and, if treated properly, for human consumption."
I agree with everything you said about algae farms. Don't forget the (amazing, to me) thing about algae farming of raw sewage that makes biodiesel and safe-to-dispose cleaned sewage. From http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1 &ObjectID=10381404 which was posted to
AFAIK, we currently have no way to recycle sewage.
Now there's some unrealistic idealism. When that happens, we'll also mine champagne from the ground and eat rainbow stew. Sounds good, but it
I have seen startling statistics on the quantity of used cooking oil put in landfills, however, I figured not everybody is doing that. Now that I'm thinking about it, I probably only saw those statistics on websites about WVO and biodiesel. Indeed, a little googling provides an article that at least implies that it's done both ways: http://www.allbusiness.com/accommodation-food-serv ices/food-services-drinking-places/326115-1.html
t ml
h ives/2004/090304.htm - "Cooking Oil: Nearly 64,000 gallons of used cooking oil from local businesses were diverted from landfills for use as biodiesel under diversion grants awarded by Hawai`i County."
Here's a pretty cool bit about a biodiesel manufacturer making it out of local waste oils and using landfill gas to power their operations: http://outside.away.com/outside/news/20061129_1.h
From http://www.hawaii-county.com/weeklynewsletter/arc
I guess that they weren't recycling it there, before.
Well said. That's good enough for me! "This call may be recorded" indeed could easily be interpreted as "You may record this call". Usually they preface it with "For quality control purposes"; and there could be no argument that you are recording it for any other purpose.
That's all food for thought, but I was replying to the notion that the fact that their notification of recording was in and of itself consent for you to record also.
If all you are worried about is burst pipes, you aren't familiar with the results of leaving a building unoccupied. The only way to be sure it will remain in good condition is to have somebody live there every day. Sure, they won't clean the shower the way you like, and they'll break your toaster oven, but the house won't get robbed by a burglar who targets unoccupied houses (happened to my parents at two different houses), won't get burst pipes, won't have a roof leak that destroys everything because it wasn't fixed, won't get infested with pests, and so on.
If you rent it to somebody, you also get money.
where