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The last para wasnt specific to Java debuggers, I was referring to command-line and gui debuggers in general.

About logging, I was referring to log4j used as a debugging tool, rather than as a logger. Refer to grandparent post which talks about using printfs to debug errors. I wanted to point out that log4j provides a nice and convenient way of doing it in Java. [Will save you a google search.. log4j]

If you do want to use log4j as a logger in the production version, it is powerful enough that you can drastically reduce or eliminate logging by changing parameters in the config file. You can also have logger output sent to rolling log files, to a Syslog daemon or even write your own class to deal with it.

In my experience, managing log files is not a big problem just so long as you account for it.

I've been arguing parts of this issue since late last week, when I was contacted by members of Apache Cocoon in regard to their use of my software, Jisp.

A few months back, I began migrating all of my "free" software from the libpng/zlib license to the GPL. Let's not get into the reasons why I made the change; the change is made, and I'm pleased with it.

The Cocoon people discovered my license change, and opened a dialog. In their view, my use of GPL would force them to remove Jisp from Cocoon. They requested that I either change my license or add Jisp to the Apache collective. Beyond a few miscommunications, the discussion was pleasant and educational.

My software remains under the GPL (or a commercial license, for those so inclined). I did not want to join Apache, as I have already committed myself to FOSS (Free and Open Source Software) projects that are more closely aligned with my business and personal interests. I did not want to "give" Jisp to Apache, either, given that I have several paying customers who might be uncomfortable with such a move --and my personal interest in keep Jisp a small, one-man project.

In the end, Cocoon may not even need Jisp , rendering this an intellectual debate as opposed to a practical one.

Most of Cocoon's members were quite polite; a few were quite pushy and arrogant, although some of that may be due to the crossing of language barriers. In the end, I think we've reached a point of mutual respect. People can disagree on these issues, and remain friends.

Licensing issues are rapidly approaching the contentiousness of fundamentalist religion; people are Balkanizing the FOSS world over the finer points of dogma, rather than building a common framework in which we can all thrive.

Have you, erm, looked at the Apache Software Foundation project list lately?

This isn't just about a license for the Apache HTTP server. In fact, it isn't even just about ASF projects either, since it offers independent developers a new choice of license to easily release their code under.

"Pseudo-clever-licensing" keeps programmers out of court, dude. Apache's patent termination clause will make patent litigators think twice before bringing frivilous lawsuits. Like it or not, licences are incredibly important, and it's good to see Apache put as much effort into it as the FSF have.

For what it's worth, the official FSF response to the ASL2.0 licence is here, by Eben Moglen. Then Apache changed the licence under review. It's possible the FSF webmasters have not realised this, and that the comment applies only to the licence Eben reviewed (which was not the final ASL2.0). So, we could actually be arguing over nothing.

Take a look at Apache Cocoon . Here are samples that are converted to PDF, on the fly, using Cocoon.

Simple answer: download and install Mozilla Firefox on the workstations, then go into Control Panel->Add/Remove Software->Windows Components, and remove Internet Explorer (I thin you have to have some service pack that was released in the last 12 months for this option to be available). Windows 2000 (the operating system, not the software that comes with it) is reasonably secure when behind a firewall (and what company doesn't have all their workstations behind a firewall?). To keep it secure, ditch the insecure userland applications. There are alternatives out there

Another option that makes for flexible and interactive reports is to output a spreadsheet document rather than a PDF, complete with calculated fields and modifiable fields that allow the user to experiment with options (where appropriate). If you format them well, spreadsheets can print very nicely.

You can generate documents in Microsoft Excel format using the Jakarta POI HSSF API, and of course OpenOffice Calc files are just XML documents zipped up with a manifest, easy to produce with just about any toolset.

Take a look at Apache FOP, although your starting documents would have to be XML. The pros: buzzword compliant, and the project has a name similar to an old Soundgarden song!!

If you had contributed to a GNU project instead, you would have had to assign copyright to them in a written, dead-tree, snailmail letter (no other way to get a patch of more then 10 lines into Emacs, for example).

The original patent clause was way too broad and upset a lot of people, but I thought the final one had the debian folk happy, and the FSF giving it a nod. Maybe we were wrong; maybe it just makes for good controversy. See the licensing mail archive.

There have always been incompatibilities between Apache and GPL; the Apache stance is that Java LGPL libraries cannot be used from Apache code, except via a non-LGPL API (such as JDBC). This complicates things, but is something we have come to live with.

... FSF continues to believe that the achievement of compatibility between ASL and GPL would be of enormous benefit to the community of free software developers, allowing merger of valuable code bases currently separated by license incompatibilities. FSF is pleased to note the convergence implied by the ASL 2.0 draft. FSF will make efforts, in the development, discussion, and adoption of GPL 3 to further the process of convergence, by carefully considering the Apache Foundation's approach to the patent defense problem...

So there is some light at the end of the tunnel.

Java is already irrelevant to Free Software

Hmm, you may want to tell that to the developers over at the Jakarta Project.

I use Open Source (Linux, Apache, MySQL) every single day, and I happen to do most of my development in Java. There are TONS of open source components that use Java.

How about IBM? You don't think that Java matters to them? What about Eclipse? Pure Java (and a great IDE for just about any language). Next time, think before you open your mouth.

I guess I can see RMS's point: if you let XFree require this notice, maybe Apache will want a notice too.

Note that Apache does have a very similar requirement in the Apache License, Version 1.1:

"The end-user documentation included with the redistribution, if any, must include the following acknowledgment: 'This product includes software developed by the Apache Software Foundation (http://www.apache.org/).' Alternately, this acknowledgment may appear in the software itself, if and wherever such third-party acknowledgments normally appear."

However with Apache, it isn't a huge problem because the requirement has existed since day one so all of the Apache-licensed software has always been incompatible with the GPL. So anyone who wanted to write software and publish it under the terms of the GPL (and cares about copyrights) simply wouldn't use any of Apache's code. Or the author would add an exception to their license, something like: "This software is licensed under the terms of the GPL, with the exception that if you link this software with Apache code, redistributions are subject to the additional restrictions found in the Apache license." This would make it legal for distributors to attach the additional restrictions to the code. (Please note, I am not a lawyer, so please ask the Apache folks if you actually intend to use such a license.)

XFree86, unlike Apache, has not always had those restrictions, and there is a huge number of GPLed works that require linking with XFree86 code. Those works (usually) don't have any exceptions to the GPL in their licensing statement, so it is illegal for distributors to ship the software with the additional restrictions that the new XFree86 license requires.

Also note that the Apache Software Foundation has weakened their requirement for acknowledgement considerably in their new version 2.0 license, and as far as I know it is now considered compatible with the GPL by the FSF except for the newly added patent-defense clause (which the next version of the GPL might also have, so the licenses would be compatible then). The XFree86 project is moving backwards with its new license.

Red Hat distributes Apache, OpenSSL, xinetd, all with GPL-Incompatible, Free Software Licenses What is weird is Apache claims their license is compatible. What i'm really asking is why are all these projects able to get away with it?

How many of those operating systems use Apache?

You mean including Windows, all of them can, but there are fare more webservers available for Unix like systems than there are for Windows. Thttpd, wn, Thy, Roxen, Fnord, Dhttpd, Caudium, Bozotic, Boa, and AOLserver are all available in Debian in addition to Apache. Most of these are IPv6, ssl/tls, and cgi capable. They all have their strengths, and they all are being actively maintained. Most of these will operate as a drop-in replacement for Apache for most sites.

You are correct that most of the web servers on the net are Apache installations of one type or another. Most sites do not need or use all of the features that Apache offers, but install Apache anyway. Sound familiar? They are still thinking in traditional market terms, instead of looking at what is available to them. They treating Unix as if it were Windows, but if an cross-platform Apache-specific worm were to affect them adversely, there will be alternatives available to them that they would not have on Windows.

The point is that Unix like operating systems offer greater variety of more services in more implementations than Windows does or ever will. There is more room for fault tolerance, more methods available, and more capability to find new solutions to new and old problems (including security) in Free Software than any company or group of companies is capable of providing.

How many of those operating systems use Apache?

You mean including Windows, all of them can, but there are fare more webservers available for Unix like systems than there are for Windows. Thttpd, wn, Thy, Roxen, Fnord, Dhttpd, Caudium, Bozotic, Boa, and AOLserver are all available in Debian in addition to Apache. Most of these are IPv6, ssl/tls, and cgi capable. They all have their strengths, and they all are being actively maintained. Most of these will operate as a drop-in replacement for Apache for most sites.

You are correct that most of the web servers on the net are Apache installations of one type or another. Most sites do not need or use all of the features that Apache offers, but install Apache anyway. Sound familiar? They are still thinking in traditional market terms, instead of looking at what is available to them. They treating Unix as if it were Windows, but if an cross-platform Apache-specific worm were to affect them adversely, there will be alternatives available to them that they would not have on Windows.

The point is that Unix like operating systems offer greater variety of more services in more implementations than Windows does or ever will. There is more room for fault tolerance, more methods available, and more capability to find new solutions to new and old problems (including security) in Free Software than any company or group of companies is capable of providing.

ESR, once more, is publicity-whoring on a subject he either knows nothing about, or chooses to be deliberately ignorant of. Any brief perusal of the Java scene will uncover an enormous amount of Open Source work going on, some of it very high quality. (And much less so, of course, but that's the same all over).

What ESR really means is that there's a lack of adoption of Java from Unix/C programmers. This has nothing whatsoever to do with whether Java is Open Source or not, and everything to do with the perception amongst such programmers (whether deserved or not), of the Java language itself. People don't choose Perl, Python or Ruby over Java because the former are open source. People choose them because they prefer using the scripting languages.

I have this feeling that Scott McNealy isn't sitting there thinking "Damn, I guess if we totally cede control over this language, all those Unix nerds who hate Java anyway are going to drop their copies of Python and come rushing to embrace us!"

Charles Miller

As posted elsewhere to this story, I think it looks awfully like XSP Logicsheets. At least, I'm extremely surprised it wasn't mentioned in the references, because it does the same.

Wow, so it reall is the ant script tag.
Which is just like the HTML script tag.

However, mixing markup and code to this extent is something I consider a Bad Idea[tm], and Cocoon and AxKit now has much better approaches.

Practically every subproject (and derivatives) of the Apache Jakarta project uses automatic unit test suites as part of their build systems, whether with the Ant, Maven or Forrest tools.

This is not to say that patents aren't evil, but the best MS can do is to patent dying concepts, we have little to fear.

But, well, BTW, did I RTFPatent? Of course not! :-)

or jelly!

this seems more like a patent for embedding a script within XML, which is IMHO fair enough.

Can we say Ant anyone? In a way, Ant is also a script, albeit it's geared towards installation. Or did I miss something?

• Cygwin Linux emulation
• Mozilla
• Vim
• XFree86
• OpenOffice
• MinGW gcc
• Apache
• KDE

I'm just going to syndicate Elliote Rusty Harold [scroll down to the Feb. 5th entry] on this one and pass along his suggestion that you don't use XML 1.1; Xerces 2.6 will process it, but most things won't, and most of the benefits of what's new in XML only apply if you're putting your documents into a few (mostly Asian) languages.

The Lizard.

MySQL.

GNU Project.

Slackware Linux.

Mepis Linux.

K Desktop Environment.

Gnome.

Perl.

Apache WebServer.

Roxen WebServer (very intuitive, and GPL!).

Phew!! And that's a short list!! There are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of open source, free-for-all applications.... so many it's almost absurd not to use them!! Go ahead and get them!

AFAIK, There is no way to create an ArrayList backed by an int[], so you have to create an alternative class or use int[] directly, but naive programmers are surely going to believe that an ArrayList will be as efficient as an int[] when it will clearly not be.

So use Jakarta Commons Primitives instead.

What a pity that Clark Boyd, the tech journo who wrote the piece, failed mention that the BBC uses Linux and Apache to host its main news portal. If some above average technical writer would like to do a piece about the Net infrastructure at the BBC, I for one would be very interested to read it.

Not sure I'm with you on pass by value, it's already done with RMI/Serializable Objects for instance.

Big +1 on generics, I can't wait until 1.5! Also, Java 1.5 attributes will make themselves useful in some situations, but they are already here in several open source libraries.

I'd take C# as an option in a real solution (read: billable) only in two scenarios: 1. I have a MS only client (I do!) or 2. The open source community gets a lot more excited about it.

To elaborate, the fact that Java has such a rich open source landscape eclipses C#'s marginal feature wins. There has been a compiler supporting generics for quite a while now. Attributes and real AOP have several open source projects implementing them in different ways. These types of things are on the fringes of the java open source community.

There are so many mature java open source projects that provide real benefits to a programming team that I am about to be absolutely unfair by naming some. The C# community is a long way away from boasting these achievements.

• Useful stuff for most or all projects
• Apache Maven goes beyond build automation to provide open source project management, dependency management, documentation, code metrics, application server deloyment, and a lot more.
• Hibernate provides true database independence and allows one to address persistence requirements independent of the object model
• Apache's Jakarta Commons is a thriving community providing small useful components that end up being useful in more situations than you expect. Some of the components in here loosely correspond to more coarse-grained things in the Microsoft .NET Class Library. Examples: HttpClient, dbcp (database connection pooling), betwixt (System.Xml.Serialization)

• Some much more coarse grained application components are around as well:
• Apache Jakarta Lucene is a sophisticated indexing and searching library
• Drools provides a rules engine complete with a modification of the Rete algorithm for Objects
• blissed is a workflow library based on finite state machines.
• Apache Cocoon is much more than an XML pipeline framework. It enables multi-format publishing and also serves as a web application framework.

As many programmers will protest, my list above is far from representative; also, it shows my Apache and Codehaus bias. My point is exactly that; not only is the list far from representative, most or all of the components I mentioned have competitors! The advantage this bestows on java over .NET is significant.

I do not mean to argue that java is the only language that enjoys these advantages; I hear CPAN is a boon to perl hackers, and I have the impression that there is a lot going on in the open source python world. My utter lack of experience with C/C++ prevents me from commenting on the similarity of that situation, but the existence of glibc suggests some open source activity.

In summary: .NET is young, and suffers from a lack of a thriving open source community.

Not sure I'm with you on pass by value, it's already done with RMI/Serializable Objects for instance.

Big +1 on generics, I can't wait until 1.5! Also, Java 1.5 attributes will make themselves useful in some situations, but they are already here in several open source libraries.

I'd take C# as an option in a real solution (read: billable) only in two scenarios: 1. I have a MS only client (I do!) or 2. The open source community gets a lot more excited about it.

To elaborate, the fact that Java has such a rich open source landscape eclipses C#'s marginal feature wins. There has been a compiler supporting generics for quite a while now. Attributes and real AOP have several open source projects implementing them in different ways. These types of things are on the fringes of the java open source community.

There are so many mature java open source projects that provide real benefits to a programming team that I am about to be absolutely unfair by naming some. The C# community is a long way away from boasting these achievements.

• Useful stuff for most or all projects
• Apache Maven goes beyond build automation to provide open source project management, dependency management, documentation, code metrics, application server deloyment, and a lot more.
• Hibernate provides true database independence and allows one to address persistence requirements independent of the object model
• Apache's Jakarta Commons is a thriving community providing small useful components that end up being useful in more situations than you expect. Some of the components in here loosely correspond to more coarse-grained things in the Microsoft .NET Class Library. Examples: HttpClient, dbcp (database connection pooling), betwixt (System.Xml.Serialization)

• Some much more coarse grained application components are around as well:
• Apache Jakarta Lucene is a sophisticated indexing and searching library
• Drools provides a rules engine complete with a modification of the Rete algorithm for Objects
• blissed is a workflow library based on finite state machines.
• Apache Cocoon is much more than an XML pipeline framework. It enables multi-format publishing and also serves as a web application framework.

As many programmers will protest, my list above is far from representative; also, it shows my Apache and Codehaus bias. My point is exactly that; not only is the list far from representative, most or all of the components I mentioned have competitors! The advantage this bestows on java over .NET is significant.

I do not mean to argue that java is the only language that enjoys these advantages; I hear CPAN is a boon to perl hackers, and I have the impression that there is a lot going on in the open source python world. My utter lack of experience with C/C++ prevents me from commenting on the similarity of that situation, but the existence of glibc suggests some open source activity.

In summary: .NET is young, and suffers from a lack of a thriving open source community.

Not sure I'm with you on pass by value, it's already done with RMI/Serializable Objects for instance.

Big +1 on generics, I can't wait until 1.5! Also, Java 1.5 attributes will make themselves useful in some situations, but they are already here in several open source libraries.

I'd take C# as an option in a real solution (read: billable) only in two scenarios: 1. I have a MS only client (I do!) or 2. The open source community gets a lot more excited about it.

To elaborate, the fact that Java has such a rich open source landscape eclipses C#'s marginal feature wins. There has been a compiler supporting generics for quite a while now. Attributes and real AOP have several open source projects implementing them in different ways. These types of things are on the fringes of the java open source community.

There are so many mature java open source projects that provide real benefits to a programming team that I am about to be absolutely unfair by naming some. The C# community is a long way away from boasting these achievements.

• Useful stuff for most or all projects
• Apache Maven goes beyond build automation to provide open source project management, dependency management, documentation, code metrics, application server deloyment, and a lot more.
• Hibernate provides true database independence and allows one to address persistence requirements independent of the object model
• Apache's Jakarta Commons is a thriving community providing small useful components that end up being useful in more situations than you expect. Some of the components in here loosely correspond to more coarse-grained things in the Microsoft .NET Class Library. Examples: HttpClient, dbcp (database connection pooling), betwixt (System.Xml.Serialization)

• Some much more coarse grained application components are around as well:
• Apache Jakarta Lucene is a sophisticated indexing and searching library
• Drools provides a rules engine complete with a modification of the Rete algorithm for Objects
• blissed is a workflow library based on finite state machines.
• Apache Cocoon is much more than an XML pipeline framework. It enables multi-format publishing and also serves as a web application framework.

As many programmers will protest, my list above is far from representative; also, it shows my Apache and Codehaus bias. My point is exactly that; not only is the list far from representative, most or all of the components I mentioned have competitors! The advantage this bestows on java over .NET is significant.

I do not mean to argue that java is the only language that enjoys these advantages; I hear CPAN is a boon to perl hackers, and I have the impression that there is a lot going on in the open source python world. My utter lack of experience with C/C++ prevents me from commenting on the similarity of that situation, but the existence of glibc suggests some open source activity.

In summary: .NET is young, and suffers from a lack of a thriving open source community.

Not sure I'm with you on pass by value, it's already done with RMI/Serializable Objects for instance.

Big +1 on generics, I can't wait until 1.5! Also, Java 1.5 attributes will make themselves useful in some situations, but they are already here in several open source libraries.

I'd take C# as an option in a real solution (read: billable) only in two scenarios: 1. I have a MS only client (I do!) or 2. The open source community gets a lot more excited about it.

To elaborate, the fact that Java has such a rich open source landscape eclipses C#'s marginal feature wins. There has been a compiler supporting generics for quite a while now. Attributes and real AOP have several open source projects implementing them in different ways. These types of things are on the fringes of the java open source community.

There are so many mature java open source projects that provide real benefits to a programming team that I am about to be absolutely unfair by naming some. The C# community is a long way away from boasting these achievements.

• Useful stuff for most or all projects
• Apache Maven goes beyond build automation to provide open source project management, dependency management, documentation, code metrics, application server deloyment, and a lot more.
• Hibernate provides true database independence and allows one to address persistence requirements independent of the object model
• Apache's Jakarta Commons is a thriving community providing small useful components that end up being useful in more situations than you expect. Some of the components in here loosely correspond to more coarse-grained things in the Microsoft .NET Class Library. Examples: HttpClient, dbcp (database connection pooling), betwixt (System.Xml.Serialization)

• Some much more coarse grained application components are around as well:
• Apache Jakarta Lucene is a sophisticated indexing and searching library
• Drools provides a rules engine complete with a modification of the Rete algorithm for Objects
• blissed is a workflow library based on finite state machines.
• Apache Cocoon is much more than an XML pipeline framework. It enables multi-format publishing and also serves as a web application framework.

As many programmers will protest, my list above is far from representative; also, it shows my Apache and Codehaus bias. My point is exactly that; not only is the list far from representative, most or all of the components I mentioned have competitors! The advantage this bestows on java over .NET is significant.

I do not mean to argue that java is the only language that enjoys these advantages; I hear CPAN is a boon to perl hackers, and I have the impression that there is a lot going on in the open source python world. My utter lack of experience with C/C++ prevents me from commenting on the similarity of that situation, but the existence of glibc suggests some open source activity.

In summary: .NET is young, and suffers from a lack of a thriving open source community.

In the end, you, as a developer need to figure out what tool you want to use. I think it's great there are so many choices. On the project I'm working with all but one are using IDEA and the last one uses Eclipse. We have no problems at all interoperating. We all use the same source, and the same Apache Ant scripts. So why should we care about this?

I'm currently working on a project that involves Java servlets, so we're using the Jakarta Tomcat server. It has a feature that can safely be enabled on a development box to allow you to "manage" the server by use of special URLs - ie, bookmarks. So I have a bookmark that reloads our web application, something like "http://admin@admin:localhost:8080/manager/reload? path=/ourapp".

It's quite handy for development use, although not secure enough to enable on the Internet. If we install this "patch," my boss is probably going to suddenly wonder why the URL I gave him to reload the servlet application randomly stopped working on his machine. I doubt he'd appreciate the "bug fix" or the answer "use Mozilla" - especially because the web app doesn't run under Mozilla. (Blame Adobe, it used SVG before Mozilla broke the SVG plugin.)

I was just showing an example of how shapes in SVG are reused. SVG graphics can be every bit as complex as fonts. The only feature fonts have that SVG is missing is hinting (changing drawing rules based on scaling).

In fact, there are tools for converting true type fonts to svg. The W3C has information on how to use these svg fonts.

Still, I have looked at thousands of licenses and none use the term copyright license, [...]

I just searched Google for "copyright license" (with quotes, i.e. for that phrase) and it found about 70300 hits, although at least the first few pages don't seem to actually contain that phrase.

One thing I know for sure is that in German civil law, it doesn't matter what people call a contract, what matters is what they actually agreed on. E.g. if you provide a service but call the accompanying contract a sales contract, it's still a service contract. However as I said, I am not a lawyer, nor am I familiar with the specifics of U.S. civil law and copyright law.

The ASF has set up a mailing list to discuss their new licenses (see here), and since two proposed special case licenses are not approved yet, I assume that mailing list is still open for participation. Maybe you should raise your concerns there?

Regarding announcement, well, there has been a mail list on apache.org. Even so, I was suprised to see it live, because I thought it didnt go to a vote in the members meeting at apache con. Certainly debian and others were providing detailed feedback before the conference.

I think it is GPL compatible -Roy Fielding of Apache
says that Eblen Moglen of FSF has looked at it and is happy.

I've been digging through archives, and it seems FSF's Eben Moglen hasn't made public comments about this version of the proposed ASL-2.0, BUT, he has commented on a previous version:

Ebens November 16th comments

Well worth a read, he mentions some of the changes being considered for GPLv3.

For anyone interested in GPLv3. It was supposed to be ready for early 2003, but after a few delays it had to be delayed for a year as Eben had already arranged to have a year off. I think he'll be back soon, so maybe late 2004? (that information is from previous sources in my head, not from the above linked comment. Also, he was still working for FSF during his year off, just not full time. AFAIK.)

Most importantly, it won't come out 'til it's ready. Prof. Moglen deserves a lot more recognition than he gets. He really knows his stuff and the FS community is lucky to have him.

I couldn't find the Apache 2.0 license on the FSF license list. The only "official" remark seems to be the following email thread which says:

Whether or not they are considered compatible by the FSF is an opinion only they can make, but given that a derivative work consisting of both Apache Licensed code and GPL code can be distributed under the GPL (according to *our* opinion), there really isn't anything to be discussed.

Maybe it was a bit premature to announce this license without waiting for OSI approval and requesting feedback from the FSF. Of course the Apache group can do whatever they want without asking for approval and blessing from other Open Source and Free Software groups. But it would have been nice to try to cooperate a bit more.

• 
  AOL ServerThe Sophisticated One.
  ApacheThe One We All Know and Love.
  BoaThe Fastest One.
  WNThe Indexed One.
  

Check out mod_rewrite.

Link is for 2.0 documentation.

Very powerful.

Servlets/JSP are handled by Jakarta/Tomcat, webservices are handled by Axis both are Apache projects

Servlets/JSP are handled by Jakarta/Tomcat, webservices are handled by Axis both are Apache projects

Jakarta Tomcat, part of the Apache project, has no problem working with Apache. There is an Apache plugin available.

Uhm, not exactly.

Warp was (and to some degree still is) THE pioneering label for experimental electronic music. Aphex Twin, who you might not have heard of, is definitely a major influence in a lot of music today. With the increasing use of synths in modern music, you can even hear Warp's influence in music that isn't strictly electronic.

I think it would be fair to say that Warp is the "Blue Note" of jazz music, but I admit that I don't know much at all about jazz, so that might be a dumb thing to say.

Warp records (and Brian Behlendorf, head of the Apache project!) are even responsible for the name of the genre on the label. It's called "IDM" which is short for "Intelligent Dance Music", a name that sounds incredibly stupid and pompous now, especially since much of the music categorized in that genre isn't danceable. But in a post to his new "idm" mailing list back in 1993, brian said he made up the name because of Warp's "Artificial Intelligence" compilations.

Anyway, Warp isn't a major label, but it's defintiely one of the huge, influential indies, so it's nothing to sneeze at.

Well the Apache contributors page seems to do a pretty good job of detailing the several dozen core developers. There's even a few pictures.

That said I think the reason you don't have a name to associate with Apache is that there is no one singular Guru/Creator/Architect Figure, as with Larry Wall or Linus Torvalds.

Here's the source code (SVG) of a logo, IBM can use if they do abandon Micro$oft. It says: "Not powered by Micro$oft". My server cannot handle substantial traffic, so I cannot provide a link to a picture showing the logo. Convert it with the Batik rasterizer, resize the .png file it generates with 'convert' and/or convert it to another file type and show it with pride! <?xml version="1.0"?> <!-- Copyright (C) 2003 H.J.P.M. Vos This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version. This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details. You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. --> <svg xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink" width="326" height="110"> <rect width="326" height="100" fill="lightgreen"/> <rect x="10" y="10" width="306" height="80" fill="pink"/> <text style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:30;font-wei ght:bold;" fill="red" x="10" y="35"> NOT </text> <text style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:30;font-wei ght:bold;" fill="orange" text-anchor="middle" x="163" y="60"> POWERED </text> <text style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:30;font-wei ght:bold;" fill="yellow" x="30" y="85"> BY MICRO$OFT </text> </svg>

So what would you say is 'correct' behavior for a file with no registered MIME type?

Thats not Apaches fault. Its your fault. Fix your httpd.conf mod_mime docs

Of course this is Apache's fault, and here's the bug filed to fix Apache.