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Under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) a citizen of a NAFTA country may work in a professional occupation in another NAFTA country if the applicant meet certain requirements.

Citizenship and Immigration Canada

It's not very hard to immigrate to Canada as long as you have a job that would qualify you as a skilled worker.

Citizenship and Immigration Canada

It's not very hard to immigrate to Canada as long as you have a job that would qualify you as a skilled worker.

So immigrate, you insensitive clod!

Truly remarkable!

It so happens that the earth is stopping on its axis, although if you are sure you don't have a gas problem, I'm sure you would be welcome should you decide to immigrate to Canada, although it is good to have people like you south of the border too.

I've been trying since early 2002.

I did the math, and figured that I would make quite a bit more money living and working in canada, even with your higher tax rates. it's not about the tax, it's about what I get for my taxes- universal health care, low cost provincial auto insurance, etc.

Fellow Americans- do the math on what you pay for auto insurance, health care, co-pays, deductibles... and you'll see Canada has more to offer. plus better TV/Radio. and no "American Idol".

You have to act fast, however, since Canda is tightening its immigration requirements. A few years ago you could score a 70 on the test and be admitted. Today the threshold is 75 and rising.

Why would you want to immigrate to Canada? Because not only do Canadians have civil liberties, but people in the bottom 55% of incomes have higher after-tax incomes than the bottom 55% of Americans (which is most of us). Indeed, the average after-tax income for the middle class of most industrialized countries is higher than in the United States. (SOURCE: Up From Conservatism by Michael Lind.) Americans in the top 10%-20% are by the most affluent in the world, but the rest of us have fallen behind, since our jobs have gone to India and Taiwan. Not only do we have lower after-tax incomes, but we also have more crime (which is paradoxical since US law enforcement is dangerous and out of control), worse public education, and far costlier health care.

You have to act fast, however, since Canda is tightening its immigration requirements. A few years ago you could score a 70 on the test and be admitted. Today the threshold is 75 and rising.

Why would you want to immigrate to Canada? Because not only do Canadians have civil liberties, but people in the bottom 55% of incomes have higher after-tax incomes than the bottom 55% of Americans (which is most of us). Indeed, the average after-tax income for the middle class of most industrialized countries is higher than in the United States. (SOURCE: Up From Conservatism by Michael Lind.) Americans in the top 10%-20% are by the most affluent in the world, but the rest of us have fallen behind, since our jobs have gone to India and Taiwan. Not only do we have lower after-tax incomes, but we also have more crime (which is paradoxical since US law enforcement is dangerous and out of control), worse public education, and far costlier health care.

Sorry, but if you don't have any work experience or personal assets, chances are you can't just move here (take the self assessment). It's much easier to get into the country if you get offered a job.

Sorry, but if you don't have any work experience or personal assets, chances are you can't just move here (take the self assessment). It's much easier to get into the country if you get offered a job.

No, seriously, how's the job market up there?

People here can joke all they want, and make their flag-wavin'-'merikun "love-it-or-leave-it" snide remarks about Canadian immigration, but the way our country's been going lately has make me take a hard look at immigration.

I'm older, and making a life change like this would be very difficult, but I'm sick and tired of all the bile out of the so-called "patriots" who've backed this so-called "administration". GWB and his cronies are looking more like Saddam than not. All this talk of "If you're not with us, you're against us", and "...all Americans that they need to watch what they say, watch what they do..." is starting to sound a lot more fascist than democratic.

still a few points short yet, but i should have enough school to put me over the top come december 2004...

It's clear that, to use your own words, 'it's YOU that's the "fucking idiot".'

To be honest, if I could haul my ass to Louisiana tomorrow, I would.. but unfortunately your visa system wouldn't let me in

This is a rather socialist idea, and one of the reasons we pay so much tax. My pride kinda stops me from looking at this option. I'm a capitalist

BTW I am honoured to be the first person you swore at on /.

I don't think that's a solution. As a law abiding citizen I'd only carry a gun if I was going to kill someone, all my friends have the same belief. I misplace my cellular phone all the time, if I carried a gun I'd probably ending up misplacing that a lot too. I don't wake up in the morning expecting to kill someone, even in self-defence, hence I never carry weapons. When someone robs you, it tends to happen at an inconvenient time. If I had a lethal weapon built into my brain or something then maybe I'd use it at that time, but then when I go to a bar, get totally drunk and shoot someone as a joke, I mean that's not something I want to do. I cannot guarantee that I won't do that when I'm drunk, I don't think anyone can and thus guns are bad. If I walked into a bar and even suspected anyone in there who might be drunk might have a gun even for self-defence, I'd walk straight out and go to another bar.

I've been thinking about that for a long while now, Canada looks great but they've recently changed their immigration laws so I'll need 4 years solid experience before applying, unlike the part-time IT stuff I have now despite a God damn Master's degree in IT/Electronics joint major. My friend has had more success than me because he's in Sales, and is very good at it, and has moved to Dubai but he's recently found out that it's worse than here - if he has a car accident then no matter what it is his fault as a non-arab outsider as just one example.

From a statement made Tuesday:

The Minister is further proposing that skilled workers and business immigrants who applied before December 17, 2001 who have not received a selection decision prior to January 1, 2003, will be subject to the proposed selection criteria and a proposed transition pass mark of 70 points (reduced from 75).

It's retroactive, only for those who have already applied, before the current law went into effect. It's true, they say they are going to change things again, in June, but there are no real specifics yet.

Yes; But have you looked at the point system itself? I have, and I've been considering canadian immigration for some time now, until the new laws were passed. Unless you have a job offer already (which often won't happen unless you can get in already...) and/or have family there, you won't qualify

The current system requires you score at least 80 points on the assessment. I currently score 71, with maximum points for age and for work experience in my job field. Having a bachelor's degree, I get 20/25 possible points, and speaking fluently in one of Canada's official languages (English), but not the other, I get 16/20.

Now, without a job offer, or family there, the only way I could reach 80 would be if I had a Masters Degree and spoke fluent French as a second language. And even then, 80 points is just a "maybe".

Basically, the current system is very heavily weighted towards having existing connections in Canada already.

More information.
I stand by my claim.

...didn't think so.

If legislation requiring a national ID card is passed, I for one will not apply for it.

The type of penalties you would face might be similar to those faced by men between the age of 18 and 26 who fail to register for the draft:
Failure to register or otherwise comply with the Military Selective Service Act is upon conviction, punishable by a fine of up to $250,000, imprisonment for up to five years, or both. In addition, federal and certain state laws require registration as a prerequisite for obtaining student financial aid, job training, government employment, and U.S. naturalization.

The loss of liberties from a national ID card, though onerous, are many times less than the loss of liberty entailed by being drafted. If the draft is constitutional, I can't see how a national ID card wouldn't also be constitutional.

In fact, the loss of privacy involved in filing income tax forms every year is at least as great as that of a national ID card. Conceivably the same sort of restrictions on the disclosure of tax information would apply to the ID card.

If there is a national ID card and if it sustains a Supreme Court challenge and if you don't want to go to jail for 5 years, you might want to consider immigrating to Canada, which has a long history of accepting refugees from the United States.

If you don't feel like going through this kind of trauma and humiliation go to another country which actually has a real immigration policy. You can apply even if you don't have a job lined up beforehand. And yes it's quite a bit different from the US of A.

Hope this helps.

If you don't plan to go for a year, apply for PR now (assuming you have some cash to spend). It will make it far easier for you. This is a good web site to start with information: Citizenship and Immigration Canada - http://www.cic.gc.ca/. The key being to do it now and thus give the process time.

Personally, I don't mind picking up foreign citizenships. So long as I don't have to give up my British passport. It makes life easier, introducing flexibility and future assurances of somewhere else to go if they have a better economy. It'll be nice not to have to worry that my temporary status might end, leaving me little time to pack and leave for another continent.

Where would you go? (Serious question. Me, I'm considering Canada. Not perfect by any means, but the jerk ratio seems to be significantly lower.)

Note that Canadian immigration is easier for those with certain occupational experience -- computer background scores very high on Occupational Factor and Educational and Training Factor.

BTW: What does it take for me to move north of the border? It seems to be an increasingly appealing proposition these last few years.

So glad you asked that, friend. I would start off by looking at the Citizenship and Immigration Canada website, which you can find here. If you're a highly skilled geek, I don't anticipate too many difficulties -- but then again, I was born here, so how would I know?

The UN rated Canada the number 1 place in the world to live for several years in a row; nevertheless, if you get serious about moving up here, be prepared for higher taxes, an increasingly crappy exchange rate, lower pay, and having to wait for all the cool new toys to be released in Canada.

Of course, in exchange, you get stronger beer and health care.

Importing the best and brightest is probably the only way for the US to maintain dominance in intellectual business.

I've considered immigrating to the US through employer sponsorship and have studied the US immigration process for well over two years now. The best and brightest people will proabably do the same and draw similar conclusions to mine before considering coming to the US -- that the immigration system is all one big lottery.

Look at one particularly famous hi-tech immigrant. A Mr. Linus Torvalds, whose H1-B is sponsored by Transmeta. Fortunately for him, his Green Card application is going through a faster route. He's qualified for EB-1 (Employment Based category one) which allows him to forego the lengthy Labor Certification process which would've added at least two years wait. And yet still, Linus complains. The IEEE-USA and Immigration Reform Coalition have even gotten him to sign their letter in support of green cards for new immigrant labor.

What about those H1-B holders whose GC applications don't qualify for EB-1. The EB-2 for jobs requiring a Masters, or the heavily over subscribed EB-3 for any job needing only a bachelors? Waiting times for: Labor Certification + Priority date to become current + i485 processing + Employment Approval Document(EAD) + final ajustment of status to GC holder = in excess of 5 years. Assuming an H1-B is renewed it can only allow a person to work for 6 years in the US.

Technically, once an H1-B holder has reached the EAD stage they can remain in the US indefinitely on their current visa working for the sponsoring employer. The adjustment of status queue itself (the one Linus is currently stuck in) has been bottlenecked for well over a year. Indefinite indentured labor anyone?

And in the space of just 1 year look what has happened to the dot coms. Layoffs, pink slips, bankruptcy. Even well established companies like Shockwave, Qwest and Novell are laying off hi-tech people. Of course, with the labor market so tight, the US citizens and residents will get snapped up by other more successful companies within a weeks. But what of the H1-B holder who now has ten days to find another sponsor or be deported? Even if one is so lucky as to find a new sponsor for the H1-B, the 6 year time limit cannot be reset. 2 years spent at a dot.bomb means only 4 years left at the new company. The GC application must start from scratch, and there simply will not be enough time for it to complete processing.

And even if all the bottlenecks were to magically disappear by noon today, a recent IEEE-USA study suggests that the quota of H1-B's (65,000, or 200,000 if the cap is raised) entering every year would render the Green card process one big lottery for many. Only a tiny fraction of H1-B holders get adjusted to GC in any given year. This number was no more than 25,000 in 1998 due to all the backlogs.

So, No thank you. I don't think I'll be working in the U.S. Maybe, I'll try Canada. From what I hear, a hi-tech professional can get residency within 18 months. Many former H1-B holders from India are migrating northwards taking valuable US hi-tech experience with them.

Well, since there really is no hi-tech shortage in the US, this Computing Science Ph.D. who can program in C/C++, Perl, Java, Python, Tcl/Tk, is familiar with many Internet protocols, OpenGL programming, and gives training courses in Linux/UNIX, will probably not be missed.

Bye