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If you think it is easy, remember that you can always help us do it faster (and better). Also, no browser currently support the full SVG spec as you can see at http://www.codedread.com/svg-support.php

No, it shows how much the Web is ready for SVG.

I thought this site did?
http://www.codedread.com/svg-support.php

Can IE6 display SVG?

Yes, with a plugin. Before anybody whines about needing plugins, please keep in mind that Flash is also a plugin. Apparently didn't stop Flash's acceptance in the market.

How about IE7?

Yes, plugin.

IE8 maybe?

Yes, plugin.

Surely IE9 can display SVG?

Yes, native.

Now the "yes" should be qualified by asking you for the definition of "SVG". Do you mean..
A. It can display vector images.
B. It can display vector images and has rudimentary animation support.
C. It passes all of the SVG test suite tests, including those for data parsing, pixel-based effects including displacement, etc.
D. It conforms 100% to the entire SVG spec.

If A: Yes.
If B: For the most part, Yes.
If C: No - nor does any other browser*
If D: No - nor does any other browser*
* See earlier link. It's due for an update, so the very latest betas'/previews' results will likely differ.

Back to you, co-Anon.

dream on

If you look at Haavard's blog on the Opera site, you will find a reference to run of the SVG 1.1 Test Suite on IE9. In contrast to Microsoft's SVG test suite (of about 104 individual tests in 7 areas), the W3C's test suite has 275 tests, each of which typically has a dozen or so subtests. On the standard test, IE9 passed 28.36 % of the tests. All other browsers are above 60%. Once SVG becomes viable, I expect that all of the other browsers will quickly advance into the 90%+ range. Opera is already well above 90%. So I welcome IE9 into the SVG crowd, but they are far behind the competition.

A skeptic, that is to say, anyone who can recall Microsoft's behavior over the past 20 years, might wonder if Microsoft ran the official SVG test suite on all competing browsers to find areas where they failed. They then built a second test where they know the others will fail. The developers then focused on implementing them correctly in IE9. This would give them bragging rights when they ran their specially crafted SVG test that focussed on these areas. But it would not help improve interoperability if they grade themselves on a new test, rather than the W2C test suite. I hope I a wrong, but like the little boy who cried wolf, Microsoft has a history of misleading the community.

And with all that said, perhaps it's time to put Microsoft's SVG implementation through the /. torture rack.

Not necessary - here is a nice comparision for all current browser implementations of SVG and how much tests of the official SVG test suite they pass : SVG Implementation Table. If you click on the chart you get a very detailed view.

To summarize:
IE9: 29% of the SVG test cases,
Firefox: 72%,
Chrome/Safari: 83
Opera: 93%

IE9 is way behind, Opera is the winner in this test

In fact, if you want to look at tests from back in March 2009 done on 3.5.2 (which has the same SVG support as 3.5.7) by one of the SVG working group folks, take a look at http://www.codedread.com/svg-support.php

Note the big red chunk in the first two lines corresponding to lack of SMIL support. Of the remaining 80% of the tests, Firefox 3.5 passes about 3/4, looks like. That's including the fact that it has no SVG Fonts support.

So SMIL was the biggest single SVG 1.1 compliance bit missing in Gecko... which is why it got worked on.

I'd have to say Internet Explorer is somewhat lacking in some areas such as SVG Support:
Opera: 94.16% A+ Pass
Firefox: 60.40% C Pass
Safari: 64.23% C Pass
IE: 0.00% FAIL

Sounds a lot like FOSS. I bet the confusion is intentional, probably a MS/Y! conspiracy to attack Open Source.

So does this BOSS (BGI Over SDL Subsystem):... BOSS

:-D

I agree.

Here's a good example of how useless ACID3 is:
http://blog.codedread.com/archives/2008/03/26/webkit-nightly-not-smiling/

Webkit gets 100/100 on ACID3, which includes SVG tests, yet webkit only gets 5/116 on SVG animation compliance.

Implementing the bare minimum to pass acid3 is a disservice to everyone.

Eric Meyer also has a bunch to say on how acid3 is a "missed opportunity"
http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/03/27/acid-redux/

> now that Adobe has pulled out of SVG development

Adobe Labs still has some stake in SVG.

> its safe to say that SVG has no future outside of the tiny community of inkscape users.

All major browser manufacturers have plans for SVG at the moment, even IE has plans to eventually include SVG.

> the majority of SVG content on the web being experimental projects

Yeah, those experimental projects like Google Maps and Microsoft Live Local and Dojo...

And for those who cite that SVG is "bloated" because it's XML, maybe you haven't heard of something called "compression"...

> now that Adobe has pulled out of SVG development

Adobe Labs still has some stake in SVG.

> its safe to say that SVG has no future outside of the tiny community of inkscape users.

All major browser manufacturers have plans for SVG at the moment, even IE has plans to eventually include SVG.

> the majority of SVG content on the web being experimental projects

Yeah, those experimental projects like Google Maps and Microsoft Live Local and Dojo...

And for those who cite that SVG is "bloated" because it's XML, maybe you haven't heard of something called "compression"...

The bitter truth may be that there's growing restrictions by huge companies learning that they can squeeze a few more bucks out of all the participants, but that's not a good excuse to sit back and do nothing. If you have a dream of making a game, have a dream of publishing yourself or have a dream of spreading your maniac manifesto, the best time was four years ago. The second best time is today. Last time I checked you can still set up a site with shared hosting for less than 10 bucks a month and put up a pretty wide range of whatever the hell you want with little or no hassle.

If you want to publish games and the web is your medium then there's plenty of time before that door slams shut. Get off your ass and get to work. That's what I'm going to do when I'm done complaining here. You need some help getting started? My vehicle is SVG and DHTML, there are lots of things you can build with free open source tools. Some quick examples: Freecell, Connect 4, and a simple templated puzzle example.

I am loving the SVG implementation in the Opera 9 Previews, I update information on my blog. TP2 includes several fixes to the SVG implementation over TP1 and TP1 was a HUGE leap from Opera 8.x. Opera now covers more SVG functionality than Firefox 1.5 does, and is faster on my PC.

Opera is the new native SVG implementation to beat.

Tetris. Man I love that game!

Yeah. And now that FireFox 1.5 has SVG graphics built in, Tetris is just a . click away.

My site has SVG navigation pane with animated buttons. I also made a version of SVG Tetris.

My site has SVG navigation pane with animated buttons. I also made a version of SVG Tetris.

Personally I think their Blog Editor tool need A LOT of work. The Blog This! feature is nice, but the Blog Editor itself is hardly "slick". Read more here.

I was going to say the exact same thing. Outlook Web Access 2003 really impressed me when I first used it at work. It's only natural that they would use this same code to give Hotmail a much-needed face lift. Only problem is that currently Outlook Web Access 2003 is hobbled in Firefox and completely borked in Opera. Hopefully that's being addressed with Kahuna since it's outside the corporate environment...

First, make sure you have the Fx 1.5 Beta 1 (obviously). Now do you see these dialogs when going to my site (http://www.codedread.com/) or is it only local SVG files? If it is just local SVG files, see this bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30358 1 that I filed with a workaround to fix this issue. If it solves the problem, go vote for that bug!

SVG is absolutely built into Firefox 1.5 Beta. It's been there since the alphas as well. Go to http://www.codedread.com/ and see my little nav menu with the aqua buttons. Go to http://www.codedread.com/yastframe.php and play my SVG Tetris clone. These things work in IE+ASV, Fx1.0+ASV and Fx1.5. The menu slightly works in Opera 8.02 but the game does not (Opera does not support SVG scripting yet).

If you are experiencing issues it is likely due to incompatibility issues with Adobe SVG sites. Firefox is stricter so people out there need to update their content. See http://jwatt.org/svg/authoring/ for more details.

SVG is absolutely built into Firefox 1.5 Beta. It's been there since the alphas as well. Go to http://www.codedread.com/ and see my little nav menu with the aqua buttons. Go to http://www.codedread.com/yastframe.php and play my SVG Tetris clone. These things work in IE+ASV, Fx1.0+ASV and Fx1.5. The menu slightly works in Opera 8.02 but the game does not (Opera does not support SVG scripting yet).

If you are experiencing issues it is likely due to incompatibility issues with Adobe SVG sites. Firefox is stricter so people out there need to update their content. See http://jwatt.org/svg/authoring/ for more details.

Ajax is a buzz-word for Asynchronous JavaScript and XML. It generally refers to web based applications that feel more responsive than traditional pages because they don't refresh the whole page every time the user does an action. There's plenty more on Wikipedia.

Once you get down to the brass tacks of writing an app, here's a good way to deal with implementation problems people run in to.

Funny, I blogged about this very idea two weeks ago at http://blog.codedread.com/archives/2005/07/12/xhtm lsvg-htmlvml/

FUD? Fear? Uncertainty? Doubt? I don't think my post expressed any of those things...but of course that's just my opinion.

"I think the "who actually uses it" argument is a good one."

Millions apparently. They had four million downloads in a few days when 8.0 was released.

Are you really that obtuse? As I explained in my post, "download" != "regular usage". I downloaded Opera, but I don't use it as my regular browser, I use it to test my websites. Did you read my full post?

"Opera is envious of how Firefox became the darling of the internet community and threads like this prove that they still don't understand why (hint: clean, crisp interface and a lot of word of mouth)"

Yeah, good job posting a link to a thread posted long before Opera 8.0 was released... Have you actually tried Opera 8.0? It has fewer menus than Firefox by default!

The fact that the article is 8 months old does not make it entirely irrelevant. The purpose of posting the link was to show the attitude of Opera zealots when it comes to acknowledging deficiencies in the product.

Yes, I've used Opera 8.01 and here's proof. I never used Opera before 8 so I can't speak to earlier versions, but "fewer menus" != "perfect UI"! As I explained in another reply I think the ad bar placement and the extra buttons detract from the user experience in a big way.

"It's odd that the CEO of a for-profit company whines that they don't have a not-for-profit "sugar-daddy" like MoFo. Who funds MoFo? Isn't it a not-for-profit company (I'm not sure if AOL still does any funding there)?"

It's not whining. It's pointing out the fact that Mozilla gets funding from huge corporations like Nokia, Sun, Google, IBM, and so on. It's just a simple fact, and he's explaining how Opera needs to actually sell products to make money to hire devs. Mozilla has hired staff as well, you know, but those rely on donations from large companies.

You realize that the funding from these corporations is _to build a better product_ right? It's not free money from a company to a charity so that the company can go to heaven. These large companies funding MoFo don't hold lofty ideals about open-source just "because". They have motives that are built upon increasing their own profits through offering a better product. Nokia uses Opera in their web devices, but is also planning to put out a Mozilla browser by funding the MoFo. Why do you think this is? Don't you think it has something to do with MoFo having a better product?

Hey, don't get me wrong here. I like Opera as a browser, and I'm really excited about its potential in the SVG arena. I just think the CEO of the company came off rather poorly in this article. And apparently so does most of /.

Well, I reported it in my Blog anyway: http://blog.codedread.com/archives/2005/05/25/nets cape-8-breaks-internet-explorer-6/ So nyah!