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Opera 9 with Widgets and BitTorrent Now Available

ZarK writes "Technical Preview 2 of the upcoming Opera 9.0 browser is now available for download. In addition to the general bugfix and rendering improvements there's also new features, like x-platform type widgets, improved content blocking, bittorrent support, thumbnail preview of tabs and more. Improved functionality also comes in the fact that a good lot of the scripts from userscripts.org will now work, advanced settings have improved in opera:config, and more browser customization is available at the opera community. However, some clear indications that this is still an alpha release is the experimental support for NTLM which breaks the proxy functionality for some users, and the fact that widgets are always on top."

385 comments

  1. A browser with native BitTorrent by Brother+Dysk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Finally! A browser with native support for BitTorrent downloading. This is certainly a positive thing, especially given the superb functioning of Opera's download system, at least compared to other browsers. Good move, Opera.

    --
    - Frans.
    1. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by aussie_a · · Score: 4, Funny

      I predict that Firefox's numbers will soar even further once it's made illegal for us to download Opera in Australia.

    2. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Quaoar · · Score: 1

      Except that it doesn't seem to work :)

      --
      I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
    3. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by saskboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree, I've thought for over a year that the first browser to incorporate native BT downloading into itself, so that someone could just click a link and start downloading a torrent without having to download the client/server program first, would make it big on the web very soon.
      Now if only websites had a way to offer a BT version of their download files, so that they'll never get Slashdotted again...

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    4. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Jozer99 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have been using this all day. This was my first experience with Opera, but I figured it was time to give it a try. Here is what I thought: Ease of use: Still not up to Firefox standards, but about as good as IE7 (I'm not a huge fan of that interface). You can easily change the theme, but some things are frustratingly un-customizable (in Firefox you can drag just about anything anyplace and expect it to do something). Speed: WOW! Even on my dual core 2.8 with 2GB RAM, Opera still renders pages noticably faster than IE or Firefox. Plus, no (or fewer) pesky memory leaks. Also, Opera tended to use about 2/3 of the RAM as Firefox with as many tabs open. How do they do that?!?! Downsides: Opera has a couple downsides. For one, it still doesn't have IE's universal exceptance, I still had to open IE to get to Yahoo! sites (shudder). Plus, I found that Opera had mysterious and quite common rendering errors on CSS heavy pages (as in navigation bars would not show up). This maybe because of the beta status, but it was frustrating. Opera also has much fewer plugins and add-ons available to enhance functionality. This is probably due to the smaller user base and closed source nature of the program. After a day with Opera, I am sad to say that I switched back to Firefox for my main browser. However, Opera will remain on my machine, and I will continue to download new versions to see how things improve.

    5. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by jfscheuren · · Score: 1

      Yeah, this is pretty awesome. Think firefox will get BitTorrent support soon?

    6. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by AKA+Panama+Jack · · Score: 1

      Actually the one thing I really like about Opera is how highly customizable it is. You can move anything anywhere you want. You can put everything on one line if you like. I think you might want to explore the customizability more. :)

      I like a highly minimalistic approach and this is how I setup Opera 9 TP2 for my use. :)

      http://junk.aatraders.com/myopera9tp2.gif

    7. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      You can easily change the theme [in Opera], but some things are frustratingly un-customizable (in Firefox you can drag just about anything anyplace and expect it to do something).

      As much as I hate Digg, people posting in http://www.digg.com/software/Opera_9.0_TP2_is_out have provided some of their Opera screenshots. If you can manage to read through Digg crap to find some, I think you'll find that your statement isn't completely correct; in Opera, it's incredibly easy to rearrange the UI. Just right-click on a toolbar, hit Customize and play. You can place any toolbar anywhere, and have any icon/function anywhere. Plus, Opera has a really nice keyboard/mouse gesture editor so you can assign any combination to any set of actions.
    8. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by wolf369T · · Score: 1

      Oh, but it DOES WORK FOR ME!!! It's just... that simple... This is so cool!

    9. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by AKA+Panama+Jack · · Score: 3, Informative

      BTW, Opera can use ANY Netscape compatible plugin. So basically if the plugin can be used on Firefox it can be used in Opera. :)

    10. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by xEndymionx · · Score: 1

      Actually, ELinks has had experimental built-in bittorrent for a little while now.

    11. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Jozer99 · · Score: 1

      Supposedly true, although I tried to set up several plugins that did not work correctly. This includes Quicktime, Flash, and ActiveX.

    12. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by AKA+Panama+Jack · · Score: 5, Informative

      I have the latest Quicktime and Flash 8 along with Shockwave installed under Opera 9 TP2 without any problems. They work like a charm. So you might want to see what you did wrong during the install. If you use their installers they will automatically install into Opera. If you copy the plugin files from anotehr directory make sure you place them in the program/plugin directory in Opera.

      And I thank GOD that Opera doesn't support ActiveX. ActiveX is one of the most insecure pieces of programming I have ever come across. Using ActiveX is akin to browsing the web and opening email attachments without a firewall or antivirus package installed. An open invitation to disaster.

    13. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My own disgust at IE led me to Mozilla years ago. I was reluctant to try Firefox at first, but that switch was pleasant. I never really tried Opera though, until recently.

      You see, I'm working on a website that will never be usable in IE. IE is too primitive, and broken. It can't handle xml mime types, and won't even in IE7. It can't do SVG natively, and I don't feel like wrapping all my many SVG widgets in object tags and writing code for a bad Adobe plugin. And besides, people should just plain be discouraged from ever using IE.

      SVG though is important to the website, I suppose I could use something gay like flash or java, but I really wanted this to be a pure site. I thought that it would mean that it was Firefox only. Some friends chided me into trying to make it work with Opera and Konq though...

      And I was shocked. Opera 8 gets alot of the non-interactive SVG right. Better yet, the Opera 9 beta gets alot of it right, period. And the places where it's screwed up? Bad syntax on my part, that Firefox ignores but that Opera is (rightfully) bitchy about. I won't start using Opera 9, but there's no reason why others shouldn't. It kicks ass.

      (And as for Konq, things are looking good. It did the non-interactive SVG really well, and Konqueror 4 looks like it will do just as well as the other two. Still waiting on Safari, but I think it will soon be pretty good itself)

      But for IE, we might never need browser specific hackery at all.

    14. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by ZzzzSleep · · Score: 1
      Quoth aussie_a
      I predict that Firefox's numbers will soar even further once it's made illegal for us to download Opera in Australia.
      Sorry? Why would it be illegal for us skips to download Opera?
      And damn you slashdot for getting my hopes up that Opera 9 was out!
    15. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Snaller · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why would you ever use that? Surely a standalone client offers more flexiblity? Its just more bloat in a browser.

      (And personally I wouldn't want to use Bittorrent given a choice, because its so slow - but thats a different story)

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    16. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by ThePhilips · · Score: 1

      But you can't make tabs behave like in Ff/Camino/Safari. Or can you?

      Say you have three tabs open. You have first tab active. You switch to third tab. You close it. Opera goes to... yes, it goes back to first tab. Unlike in all /normal/ browsers to second one - but to least recently used first.

      That behaviour irritates me. It completely breaks my morning news reading traditions. :-/ Or reading bug lists. My manager sends me often list of bugs. In Ff I open all bug reports in tabs next to initial report. And then go over all of them. In the situation, Opera constantly tries to jump to (first tab with) my manager's report. That's very irritating.

      Since every one said that Opera is completely customizable, I have tried to find a way around. And I was *absolutely* disappointed. In fact Opera 8/9 has *much* *much* fewer settings compared to Firefox. Try about:config in Firefox for once. That what I call "complete customization".

      The only thing I found in Opera nice/useful - it's IRC client. Simple and streamlined. Mozilla's ChatZilla uses separate window - while Opera's IRC uses the same tabs as browser. IOW, you can have the IRC chatroom tab along with Web page in the same window. (Of course with aforementioned annoyance.)

      P.S. And yes, just like Ff, Opera can't active FTP. My corporate firewall for some reason breaks passive FTP - active FTP is the only option. Ff has bug in retry code (iow, theoretically Ff can). Opera just can't. Or can it?

      --
      All hope abandon ye who enter here.
    17. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by aichpvee · · Score: 2, Informative
      Wasn't this discussed enough the last time Opera had BT built into a tech preview? The target users for an integrated torrent client are very different than for a standalone client. If all web browsers had built-in torrent support then pretty much any file up for download on the internet could be switched to a torrent for distributed serving without any noticeable change to the end user.

      Big time downloaders who want more features will obviously still use standalone clients. But it's hardly bloat to have it in the webbrowser.

      --
      The Farewell Tour II
    18. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Snaller · · Score: 1

      Well, more features will make it a larger program. However your main point is good :)

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    19. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by croddy · · Score: 1

      Opera's market penetration is just too small for it to have that effect. As it stands, most people who would download something via bittorrent already have some other client; Opera is itself the "extra" download. It is mostly existing Opera users who will use this BT client.

    20. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by baadger · · Score: 2, Informative

      Here is my configuration. It's Opera 9.0 TP2, with just a few mods. I use the Breeze Simplified skin. I disabled the sidebar _toggle_ (A thin strip down the left hand side, but F4 toggles the sidebar anyway so I don't use it). The actual sidebar is hidden by default. I've added everything you see to the status bar too, none of it lost me any pixelage (I think this is a great example of how customizable Opera is).

      I don't see how anyone can say the Opera UI is not very customizable unless they haven't spent half an hour playing around with it. On the other hand after months of use I still find new ways of doing things occasionally. To the right you can see is how I prefer my Fox, the two browsers are pretty much on par with each other in terms of screen real estate.

      As you can see from task manager though, Opera' virtual and peak memory footprint is _larger_ than Firefox, I made comment on this yesterday

    21. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      As for the "bloat" of Opera 9 TP2, the file size is only 4 Mb (for Windows). For comparison, Firefox is around 5 Mb but doesn't have a lot of the extras Opera includes into their browser (ie the mail, chat, bit torrent support, etc). I know Firefox is more customizeable with the addition of extensions, but why spend the time to search out and download all those extensions, worry about conflicts and incompatibilities with the current version of Firefox, and spend time to adjust all those extensions, when you can download one neat package containing almost everything the above-average browser would need?

      For what it's worth, the browser has been running very smoothly for me while using it. I'll be interested to see how the new alpha of Firefox will compare to this technical release.

    22. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by peteremcc · · Score: 0

      well up until last month, portable music players were illegal weren't they, so i wouldn't be surprised. :P ----- Peter http://peteremcc.wordpress.com/

    23. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by baadger · · Score: 2, Insightful
      But you can't make tabs behave like in Ff/Camino/Safari. Or can you?
      Yep you can. Checkout these custom buttons, specifically "Close current page & switch to previous one".

      Drag it to a toolbar or click it to have it installed into your toolbar customisation pallete under "My Buttons". If you disable "Show close button on each tab" in General (Tools -> Preferences) then you'll end up with behaviour identical to Firefox.

      Opera 8/9 has *much* *much* fewer settings compared to Firefox.
      This isn't true, they're just harder to find. Opera has quite a tradition of INI editing and subtlety when it comes to options and functionality.

      Try about:config in Firefox for once. That what I call "complete customization".
      I've tried using FF's about:config (or any XUL app) on a Pentium II and got very frustrated. I think Opera's current webpage implementation is just more elegant, but I guess that is a matter of personal preference.
    24. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by kernelblaha · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the client is a bit pants. I've been trying it all morning, and poo poo. uTorrent beats it on all accounts, and it's really easy to use outside Opera. Other than that the widgets are pretty cool!

      --
      Million dollar sig.
    25. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by BlueHands · · Score: 1

      allpeers is an extension that is coming out that, amongst the many things it will do is torrents.

      --
      I mod everyone down who says "I'll get modded down for this." I hate to disappoint.
    26. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by moonbender · · Score: 1

      An internal BitTorrent client is included for the same reason Opera already includes an email client, a news reader and an IRC client. I probably won't use the BT client, but for the couple times a year I hit IRC, Opera is fine, and since I'm only a relatively casual user of email, so is the internal email client. (It's actually fairly powerful, so even heavy users of email will probably be okay with it.)

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    27. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by David+Horn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If I get on a well seeded torrent and set the upstream bandwidth to a reasonable level (30KBps), within ten minutes I'll be downloading at the full capacity of my 10mbit cable connection. Not sure how you can call it slow, unless you're after movies or something.

      --
      PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
    28. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by j-cloth · · Score: 1

      Yup. I just tried it out too. Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't seem to work if I don't have port 18768 forwarded through my firewall. If the point of including a torrent client in the browser is to make torrents accessible to everyone, then it should be able to run with a passive connection like every other client I've used (I don't want people who call me when their computers break to know they can mess with their own routers).

    29. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Thrakkerzog · · Score: 0, Troll

      SVG though is important to the website, I suppose I could use something gay like flash or java, but I really wanted this to be a pure site. I thought that it would mean that it was Firefox only. Some friends chided me into trying to make it work with Opera and Konq though...

      Wow! Flash and Java have a sexual preference? Or do you simply mean that they are happy? (I hear that Java will get it on with Windows, Linux, BSD and Macintosh! Oh Baby! Java even goes for those 64 bit hotties.)

    30. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by ThePhilips · · Score: 1

      """This isn't true, they're just harder to find. Opera has quite a tradition of INI editing and subtlety when it comes to options and functionality."""

      That doesn't cut in. I wish to see proper opera.1 & opera.ini.5 ;-) Not some hideous pages with mysterious links with proprietary 'opera:' protocol.

      Anyway, your buttons have worked. Thou I'm still at guessing how to make 'Cmd-W'/'Ctrl-W' to invoke that action - but not default 'Close Tab^WPage and Go Somewhere Nobody Knows Where'. You see, I'm not using mouse all that much. Another web page with another funny looking links I guess? ;-)

      Rest assured, I checked official documentation. It mentions nowhere .ini files nor .ini configuration options. And no way to customize keyboard. From my end-user pov Mozilla does better better job advertising Firefox extensions. I mean, how to me, end-user it is different: with Opera visiting page with funny looking links, or with FireFox visiting addons.mozilla.org? Later option is of course better: I do not need to guess where to look for things I need. With Opera I need to guess what to google for. It's bit like five people for half of hour were looking for way in Emacs to close a window. You just had to guess that window is really 'buffer' and close is really 'delete'. Rest was easy. Here one has to guess that in Opera tab is called 'page'.

      Another minor annoyance, is that Opera doesn't support native widgets - it's almost Okay on Wind0ze and Linux. But on Mac OS X it's just terrible. It's not only doesn't look like Mac OS applciation, it's in fact works just like if it was under Windoze. With all other downsides Opera loses its edge over quite average Safari.

      As one guy have put it, if default configuration doesn't fit you, one can guess that application as a whole would not fit you too. Probably that's why I do not use Opera.

      To conclude: Opera has to stop being centered around its own closed comunity - but to try to talk to normal people too. To casual end-user it looks too wierd. Opera can innovate - but fails miserably brinning this innovations to average users. How long it took for FireFox to gain ground? And how long Opera was in the market?? Opera needs urgently to fix its comunity.

      In the end, tab it is tab (as in "tabbed browsing"), not page.

      --
      All hope abandon ye who enter here.
    31. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Gulthek · · Score: 1

      Ah. Let's see here. You go from

      I suppose I could use something gay like flash or java, but I really wanted this to be a pure site. I thought that it would mean that it was Firefox only. Some friends chided me into trying to make it work with Opera and Konq though...

      to

      But for IE, we might never need browser specific hackery at all.

      I hate IE as much as the next web developer, but double standard much?

      BTW, how does using java make a site "impure"? Oh no, a platform independent network oriented high level programming language. Its chicanery will have no place on my 1337 webspace.

    32. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Monimonika · · Score: 1

      Ooooh! I'd better try out those buttons when I get home. (Why can't that page be easier to find?)

      I'm a Firefox user (and love it!) but I do recognize that Opera is also a good browser. It's just that things like what the grandparent mentioned (especially with the diffculty of finding the pref/method) has been turning me off of Opera and back to Firefox before I could even get to the juicy bits.

      Also, while I'm on the subject, why is it not possible for me to place any buttons into the menu toolbar (the one with "File, Edit, View, etc.")? Firefox allows me to do this, and it seems stupid to leave such a large empty space there. It might have made sense back when ads occupied that spot, but I don't see why it is still that way now (Opera version 8.51).

    33. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by nbarriga · · Score: 1
      Say you have three tabs open. You have first tab active. You switch to third tab. You close it. Opera goes to... yes, it goes back to first tab. Unlike in all /normal/ browsers to second one - but to least recently used first.
      All you have to do is press "4" on the numeric keypad while first tab is raised. That wil send that tab to the back. Then, as you close each tab, they will cicle "normally". Opera has many key shortcuts and it takes a while to get used to them.
    34. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Cili · · Score: 1

      To each their own. I happen to dislike FF's approach. If I'm on Slashdot somewhare in the middle of all tabs, I find an interesting link in someone's post and open it in a new tab. After I'm done checking out that page, I close it and I'm back to the page I started from, not to the last tab on the right I open halfe an hour ago to check how Tiffany Taylor's doing ;)

    35. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Why would you ever use that? Surely a standalone client offers more flexiblity? Its just more bloat in a browser.

      I don't know if Opera goes all the way yet, but native support for bittorrent plus support for "trackerless" torrents via distributed hash tables (DHT) could make for a much more robust web, the kind of thing that might seriously threaten the business model of companies like Akamai.

      Perhaps we will see the day when most URLs start with bittorrent:// instead of http ://

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    36. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 1

      SVG though is important to the website, I suppose I could use something gay like flash or java, but I really wanted this to be a pure site. I thought that it would mean that it was Firefox only. Some friends chided me into trying to make it work with Opera and Konq though...

      There's no such thing as a "pure" site because the definition of "pure" is too nebulous. There are plenty of websites that are perfectly valid XHTML/CSS and still use Flash - indeed, there is nothing in any W3 spec that indicates that Flash is "bad".

      In the real world, we use Flash because we want compatibility with a wide range of platforms and browsers, including Internet Explorer. Now, Flash is overused, but it is actually an excellent product that manages to incorporate a very fast vector graphics engine, video playback (using On2 VP6), and a lot of scriptibility in a very small footprint.

    37. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by GrievousMistake · · Score: 1

      Honestly, no way to customize keyboard? Did you even look? Or did you just type in the completely non-proprietary yet strangely Firefox-specific about:config and assumed what you saw is what you got?
      There's complete mouse and keyboard customization in preferences>advanced>shortcuts, FYI, where you should be able to use all the same commands those buttons are using.

      --
      In a fair world, refrigerators would make electricity.
    38. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BitTorrent means lots of users host a file which reduces costs for a web site operator. Not much of an issue if all you do is download from MSN but lowers the cost of entry for the rest of us.

    39. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      Now, Flash is overused, but it is actually an excellent product that manages to incorporate a very fast vector graphics engine, video playback (using On2 VP6), and a lot of scriptibility in a very small footprint.

      Would "overuse" include a simple slider widget? That's one of the things I'm using SVG for, since html forms don't include such. The slider actually stores the value in a hidden input, and I can post it just like I would any other. Of course, I could do it in flash... oh wait, no I can't. Not without paying for development tools.

    40. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by GrievousMistake · · Score: 1

      So, wise guy, how do you move the super-customizable FF status bar to the top?
      I do like Firefox, but the complete reliance on extensions for basic browser functionality like session saving is überannoying, and not really a 'feature', even if you call it customizability or whatever. Frankly, it feels rather rigid, and most of the extension stuff you can't do with javascript, opera already has built-in. I sometimes use it for the DOM inspector, though. That thing is golden... So I guess plug-ins are nice...
      Man, why can't Opera implement omnipotent python plugins or something? It would be the single best browser the world... All enemies would fall before them, and it and Opera Mini would rule the galaxy as father and son.

      --
      In a fair world, refrigerators would make electricity.
    41. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by baadger · · Score: 1

      Also, while I'm on the subject, why is it not possible for me to place any buttons into the menu toolbar (the one with "File, Edit, View, etc.").... It might have made sense back when ads occupied that spot

      My guess would be exactly that... the ad's were there and so it wasn't practical. This is something I would like too, maybe the Opera dev's just haven't thought about it yet. 8.51 was just a quick release to ditch ad's as far as I know. This functionality might be available in 9.0, who knows.

    42. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by FigWig · · Score: 1

      You are lucky with your Firefox memory usage. On three different systems I always end up with a huge memory footprint ( 200MB ) after an hour of usage. Only using the Adblock extension. I keep hoping an update will fix the problem.

      --
      Scuttlemonkey is a troll
    43. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by baadger · · Score: 1
      Anyway, your buttons have worked. Thou I'm still at guessing how to make 'Cmd-W'/'Ctrl-W' to invoke that action - but not default 'Close Tab^WPage and Go Somewhere Nobody Knows Where'.
      The action code for the close page/tab and show previous page/tab is "Close page,,,, Caption Close & Switch to previous page" (unquote it). Try having a look for the Opera keyboard.ini file and the ctrl-w shortcut therein and see what you can do. Remember to close Opera before hitting save (Opera might overwrite it from memory on shutdown).

      I'm pretty sure you will find the answer there.

      Another minor annoyance, is that Opera doesn't support native widgets - it's almost Okay on Wind0ze and Linux.
      That's not really true, Opera uses the QT library and will use whatever QT theme/widget set you have going. Your mileage will vary depending on how nice the distro has setup QT and smoothed over the ugliness of the madness that is Linux GUI libraries, it's extraspecially annoying for Gnome users. I hated Opera's looks on FreeBSD and Gnome myself.

      From my end-user pov Mozilla does better better job advertising Firefox extensions
      That depends, I recently saw an article on Digg saying "Firefox's ad-block". In context this is highly misguiding. Extensions are 3rd party, and in no way supported by Firefox. I haven't seen Firefox advertising specific extensions as promotional features so I don't agree with you here.

      with Opera visiting page with funny looking links, or with FireFox visiting addons.mozilla.org? Later option is of course better
      The 'custom buttons' in Opera are much like bookmarklets in IE. They are written using something not much more complex than a hyperlink or an INI setting, and do not try to be addons. No doubt at some point creating your own easily will be integrated into the GUI, but atm Opera has alot of undocumented options and functionality.

      As for extensions/addons. Opera now support widgets written in javascript, CSS, XML and HTML. To me that is a powerful enough feature. I think it's a good thing that there are no arbitrary languages like XUL in the mix or ways to install binary code via a few clicks (Thats how ActiveX went so very wrong).

      As one guy have put it, if default configuration doesn't fit you, one can guess that application as a whole would not fit you too. Probably that's why I do not use Opera.
      That's an attitude that people selectively apply. I don't like the way WinAMP or Windows work or install 'out the box', but I still use them. I treat my browser the same way, it's a major part of my computing experience and so deserves my tweak time.

      If you prefer FF for ease of use then go for it. I am merely trying to say that what can be done in Opera isn't less than that of Firefox, just different.
    44. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      It's a shame they added that 24 KB of bloat to the browser. I'm sure you can manage the disk space

    45. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by roror · · Score: 1

      Where is my mod point when i need to mod someone up? my first reaction was why add bloat when uTorrent does it exceptionally well in a 130KB download with all the features that one should have while downloading torrents.

      But, then the other point of view could be that torrents are so commonplace now and so useful to help sites survive slashdot like effect, it's about time we should use them as regular downloads, i.e., we should not have to use another program to download something off the net. It should be as transparent as possible and browsers should natively handle it.

      I believe Opera foresees a future where most of the downloads are done through torrents thereby better utilizing the bandwidth available to everyone and reducing the load on the hosts.

    46. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by AleFeanor · · Score: 1

      If you want to go *really* minimalistic, you can convert all the menu bar into a button, like this: http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8941/opera4ce.p ng/ That's how I use it.

    47. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sarcasm is great, but yours isn't winning you anything. I've never had to use browser specific hacks when coding for Firefox and Opera. It has only ever become necessary in IE. Some people don't have enough server side rights to use things like Java, but I agree avoiding it for 'purity' sake is like paying extra for the pc tower case with the pretty side window. Being obsessed with bragging rights is for the under 15 crowd and the 'small statured.'

    48. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by AKA+Panama+Jack · · Score: 1

      Actually the way Opera's Tabbing works is the only INTELLIGENT way of doing it. When you close a tab in Opera it reverts to the LAST tab you opened or were viewing.

      If you had 4 tabs open and you looked at tab 2, then tab 4 and then tab 1 and closed tab 1 Opera would switch to the last tab you were looking at or tab 4 instead of tab 2. I love this ability as it is more intuitive than switching to tab 2. The order of the tabs you have viewed are stored as a bread crumb.

    49. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Snaller · · Score: 1

      *sigh* It depends on the available upload speed. If that is capped low you are screwed.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    50. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by chade01 · · Score: 1

      More bloat in a browser? Riiight. And Azureus is soooo lightweight!

      If a browser can implement the BitTorrent download protocol in a manner which provides reasonably good performance, that is a *good* thing for users. The extra "bloat" cannot be compared to the bloat of running another program altogether on top of your browser.

      (disclaimer: I use and prefer Azureus as my BitTorrent client of choice. But, like almost all Java programs, it is resource intensive.)

    51. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Snaller · · Score: 1

      More bloat in a browser? Riiight. And Azureus is soooo lightweight

      What other programs are, is not releant for what this program is.

      (disclaimer: I use and prefer Azureus as my BitTorrent client of choice. But, like almost all Java programs, it is resource intensive.)

      Which is why I avoid all java programs in general - they also generally look awfull.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    52. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Snaller · · Score: 1

      Wow, you're stupid.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    53. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by jfftck · · Score: 1

      Adblock has a memory leak, you should use Adblock Plus, check out http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=3548 28

      --
      I need a break!
    54. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love how you respond to his sarcastic remark and his disclaimer, and ignore the actual message behind the post. Are you a political debater or campaign adviser? If not, you may wish to consider a new career.

    55. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by IAmTheDave · · Score: 1
      SVG though is important to the website, I suppose I could use something gay like flash or java, but I really wanted this to be a pure site. I thought that it would mean that it was Firefox only. Some friends chided me into trying to make it work with Opera and Konq though...

      This is rather pompous, if I may say so. First, Flash and Java serve wonderful purposes. Both can be abused, but done right, Flash is amazing. First, sIFR is about the coolest thing I've come across for using non-standard fonts on a website. It's brilliant in its simplicity.

      Secondly, Flash lends itself quite nicely to artistically inspired sites, like photography portfolios.

      Third, Flash is the wave of the streaming video future. I know this because I work in the streaming video/media world. Its ubiquitos nature makes it perfect for reaching the broadest audience, and being able to build your own media player interface is brilliant.

      I also dislike the thought that SVG is pure while other technologies are not. SVG is web snobbery if used as you are using it in your write up. SVG serves great purposes, but will only be able to be shared by the few people who use the proper equiptment. It's therefore great for academic studies, high-end illustrations, but is hardly the only pure technology out there.

      I would think that as a web developer, you'd be interested in reaching the largest audience possible. I agree that IE6 is a PITA to code for sometimes, but it's really not THAT bad. A few CSS hacks and you have a page rendering the same in IE as Firefox.

      But I digress. Go Opera - another good release, and a browser I could get in to if I didn't develop web sites for the masses.

      --
      Excuse my speling.
      Making The Bar Project
    56. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Monimonika · · Score: 1

      I recognize that this is simply a preference (or rather, just which kind of browsing habit you tend to do more) and I do see why your (Opera's) way is good sometimes (but it's definitely not good for when I want to open multiple links in tabs at once and then go through them one by one).

      But then I think, "Can't you accomplish the exact same thing by just opening the link in the same tab and then hitting the back button (or gesturing back) once you're done?" I feel that there may be something I'm missing here, but I can't come up with why it would be any different.

    57. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is how I setup Opera 8.51, I also like the minimalistic approach (and I love Opera!):

      http://webaksess.no/bld/i_love_opera.png

    58. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 1

      I read it as "I don't want the site to require any plugins". Besides, Java applets seem to bog down any browser I use, besides taking quite a while to start up.

    59. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      I can install as many version of as many browsers as I like, all on the same machine.

      Except for IE. Why? Because! It's part of the operating system, you can't install WFW3.11 and NT 4.0 at the same time, can you?

      Sure, I bet that many professionals can afford to have a computer for each version that matters. I can't.

      As for web snobbery, I don't belong to the faction that thinks that if it "works for 90% of the web, it's good enough". I'm building my site according to web standards that at least two standards-compliant browsers work with. Strangely, when I check other standards-compliant browsers, they seem to work too. But I'm supposed to modify it for mouth-breathers who think the "big E icon is teh intarweb" ? Give me a break.

      Flash may be the future for big commercial sites. But for a hobbyist, it costs too damn much. SVG can be coded in notepad if you really insist on it, and there are great free tools too like Inkscape. SVG works, or soon will work, in all graphical browsers. Even if it doesn't work in a particular operating system component.

      If anyone wants to see just what is possible with SVG, email me for a beta account on my website, or follow my homepage to a description of the idea.

    60. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by Jongpil+Yun · · Score: 1

      If you think about it for a second, his definition of "pure" is obvious. No plugins.

    61. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by aichpvee · · Score: 1
      Larger doesn't always mean bloat though. It's kind of a question of how useful and/or necessary the feature is. For instance I think the news reader and email integration in Opera (which I never use) is a lot more bloaty. Torrent support is really more like allowing you to browse an FTP.

      Of course the real winner of the next-gen browser war will be the first one to integrate rsync.

      --
      The Farewell Tour II
    62. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by jseale · · Score: 1

      I'm sure that Yahoo and other sites of that ilk are waiting on the official release of Opera 9 before allowing it as a 'legal' viewing ware, what with all the bugs that still have to be worked out. Heck, there's a shitload of sites that don't take advantage of Firefox's tab system when you open links (the normal way that is). Having a built-in preview system on the tabs sounds nice since foXpose tends to freak out and zap Firefox sometimes.

    63. Re:A browser with native BitTorrent by ThePhilips · · Score: 1

      I found it. Yeah. Actually I have seen it before - it's just this is top dumb keyboard configurator I have ever seen. That's probably why I have forgotten about it - it's of no use anyway (unless you are Opera's long time user, I suppose). Compare to Ff's keyconfig extension. https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php ?id=1537

      The point: what I'm supposed to type in the keyboard configuration? Opera's help is no help at all. Huh? How me a casual end-user may to guess what to put in there instead of standrd "Close Page,1"? And what that ",1" means???

      Again and over again. Opera has to stop that practice of closed community. At moment Opera's community looks just as bad as Mac-fanatic community. Proper easy-to-find documentation might be the good first step.

      E.g. Googling for "opera keyboard", bring lots of useless articles on how great Opera to use from keyboard. Without *ANY* hint on how to chage the default settings. And how to discover available possibilities.

      I think in its striving to be slim browser Opera dropped its user frindlieness...

      P.S.

      Just for the balance the view. I've tried on numerous occasions installing Opera to people with slow/old computers. (Long time ago. In times of Netscape 4.0x) I most of the cases next week I was coming to check the PC for virii/etc - I was discovering that people ditched Opera in favour of IE 4.x. They were saying IE is easier to use. In one case I found people have downloaded beta of Netscape 6 - and said that it was more robust to them. Go figure. I have tried to use Opera on modem line just to find that Opera 3.x (thou it was loading pages ultra quickly) was failing to render them properly in every second case... Go figure.

      I'd love to have fast slim browser I can tune to my needs 100%. But it happened that no such browser yet appeared. What people say about Opera is something like people say about Emacs - you can have everything in Emacs, kitchen sink included. But in most cases people would choose what's suited for them from the start - not something they need a very big hammer to iron out from. Once I have spent two weeks tuning Emacs. Now I have spent two hours googling for "proper" Opera documentation. Both times I have failed. Nor have I managed to make emacs doing thinkgs the way I like, nor have I found (blantly missing) Opera keyboard configuration documentation. The hint from another post - is just it - hint, not a proper documentation. We are *not* going to start Opera discussions for every keyboard shortcut I might happen to need.

      --
      All hope abandon ye who enter here.
  2. Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by Mrs.+Grundy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, I've got to admit, my knee-jerk reaction to this was so what. The main browsers are already so intrenched in my habits, from the way I author html to my day-to-day use of the browser that it is unlikely I will care about another application unless it captures a significant share of the market thus forcing me to care about any quirks it may have in behavior and compliance to standards. But after reading the list of features, I find myself thinking I might be interested in some of them. Site-specific prefs are an interesting idea; A torrent client would be handy; the ability to change the default search engine is nice too. It looks like I'll try it out.

    1. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by piper-noiter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      For the most part if your code is up to standards it looks fine in opera. 90% of the time it renders like Mozilla. Opera is not making the designers job harder. It's closer than most to passing the Acid 2 test.

      I'm already trying it out. Full of more great stuff, as one expects. They smoothed out a lot of the features they added in Preview 1 and added so much more.

      I heard reports of problems with upgrading so I did a clean install and spent the afternoon adding my custom buttons and changing my search options. (I no longer have to use 3rd party tools to change them)

      Between custom buttons, panels, and widgets I think Opera can now easily do anything a Firefox extension can do.

      --
      Shick's Law: There is no problem a good miracle can't solve.
    2. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can change the default search engines in pre9.0 versions, too. You have to dive into the .ini files, though, which isn't particularily user-friendly.

    3. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by piper-noiter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah I'm not afraid of the .ini files, but Opera Search.ini Editor (Op6sed) made it a heck of a lot easier to get the correct search link, and set up short cuts.

      --
      Shick's Law: There is no problem a good miracle can't solve.
    4. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Actually, to create a new search now you only have to right-click in a search field on any page, select "Create search" from the menu and voila :) Pick your shortcut and you can search from the address line just as with google searches (g define:slashdotted). or use F2

    5. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Opera is not making the designers job harder. It's closer than most to passing the Acid 2 test.

      And that's exactly it's main weakness.

      Don't be fooled. The last time I tried Opera it didn't render Wikipedia and Gmail correctly (I don't know about other sites, because I uninstalled it after visiting those 2 sites).

    6. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      How is it Opera's fault that websites don't conform to standards and instead use workarounds to be viewable under the popular browsers? If Opera's problems are because it renders the standards closer to the actual standard then anyone else, I think Opera should be commended.

    7. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is a standard worth if nobody is following it?

      It's like with Firefox. Just because W3C deosn't support the scrollbar color tag although there are shitloads of sites using that tag, they don't implement it.

      When a product has 90+% of market share he IS the standard.

    8. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by piper-noiter · · Score: 1

      Yes, I know I was refering to previous versions.

      --
      Shick's Law: There is no problem a good miracle can't solve.
    9. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by Diseage · · Score: 1

      I've never understood web standards. If most browswers don't follow them, (as aparent that IE, Firefox, and Opera each failed to render the acid2 face test properly) then whose standards are they? Wouldn't the 'standards' be the most popular useage of code?

      I like the Opera browswer, I really do. but it seems to have the biggest problems rendering webpages correctly, yet it is "standards compliant" apparently (even though it failed the acid2 test as I mentioned earlier.) I tend to use the browser that will work most often, standards be dammed. And right now, in my experience, that's firefox.

    10. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by starwed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Opera and Firefox make good faith efforts to follow the standards. The problem is that implementing the complete CSS2.1 spec is hard. It's hard enough to even understand what the specs say should happen in some cases, let alone code a browser that renders it properly. The Acid2 test is about weird corner cases, with several rules interacting. The bugs it represents aren't ones which cause big headaches for web developers... they should be fixed, but there's no urgency.

    11. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by cyclomedia · · Score: 1

      >Between custom buttons, panels, and widgets

      yay! more bloat! any web browsers left out there that are still actually just web browsers and that dont need 100mb of ram to run?

      --
      If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
    12. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by Jugalator · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia link rendering was broken in Opera 9 TP1, maybe that's what you're thinking of. And in this TP2 release, both Gmail and Google Local is working better than ever in Opera for me. Even the back button works now. :-)

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    13. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      try actually running it before you complain about how much memory it needs

    14. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by :jax: · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I've never understood web standards. If most browswers don't follow them, (as aparent that IE, Firefox, and Opera each failed to render the acid2 face test properly) then whose standards are they? Wouldn't the 'standards' be the most popular useage of code?

      The point of an acid test is that is should be hard, something to strive for. The idea is that if you have passed this test you likely have a good implementation of CSS. It is possible to fail the acid test and be good in other aspects of the standard, or pass it and still be deficient, but it should give a good indicator. It is worth noting that every modern browser passes the first acid test, but it was considered a challenge at the day. IE didn't pass it before version 6.

      The focus of the CSS Working Group in the W3C has the last five years changed focus from more features (CSS3) to more universally consistent presentation (CSS2.1). I believe this is a good move, and the Acid2 test should be viewed in that light. Opera intends to support CSS 2.1 and I presume that is the case with Firefox and Konqueror too, and we all change our implementations in tune with how CSS2.1 develops. IE is definitely far behind, but should be commended for moving in the right direction.

      At some point Opera, FF, and Konqueror/Safari should render CSS2.1 more similar to each other than they would do to their own older versions, and hopefully not differ in any meaningful way. Whether IE one day is going to turn this gang of three into a gang of four remains to be seen, it won't happen with IE7, but hopefully the development won't stop there.

      Jonny Axelsson, Opera Software

    15. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > For the most part if your code is up to standards it looks fine in opera.
      > 90% of the time it renders like Mozilla.

      A lot of things are similar, yeah, but Opera and Gecko apparently do support slightly different subsets of CSS, and I've run into some of the differences.

      Granted, it's nothing like trying to make a page work in IE. Gah.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    16. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The search.ini file was easy to work with, I don't remember getting it wrong ever. I'm just happy that you don't have to reload Opera to add a new search. (Now I'm just waiting for a good menu editor...)

    17. Re:Hmmm...maybe I'll try it. by mattyrobinson69 · · Score: 1

      opera's bloody fast and doesn't have huge memory requirements

  3. Little benefit to Firefox these days. by CyricZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now that Opera has removed the ads from their browser, and added these other features, it has become a real competitor to Firefox.

    The Firefox developers will really have to step up to the plate with the upcoming Firefox 2.0 release if they want to retain the marketshare they currently have. Firefox will have to show some pretty serious speed improvements, and far better memory management. It can't leak memory at the rate which the current 1.5 releases do.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    1. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by aussie_a · · Score: 1, Insightful

      To be honest, none of these features are enough to get me to try it out. I've got Firefox installed on my computer, inertia will keep me using it, until another browser has some amazing feature. Bittorrent is probably a big draw for plenty of slashdotters (I personally don't use it enough), with the only features I don't have being tab preview and content blocking (although I'm pretty sure any content blocking features Opera has natively, I can find as an extension if I wanted them). While the tab preview is interesting, it isn't enough to get me to download and install a new program.

      Now for those migrating from IE (which is where either company SHOULD be focused on drawing users from) this would definitely be a good enough reason to try Opera first over Firefox. But I doubt it will draw many Firefox users away (discounting the rabid, zealous Firefox users who will use Firefox until judgement day comes).

    2. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      The addition of the "Block Content" on the context menu which is about the equivilant of firefox's adblock is basically the only thing people said firefox had over Opera

    3. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Re: Firefox's memory problem, it almost seems like luck sometimes. On a given setup, you either have it or you don't. The darn resistance to reproducibility is making it tough to track down.

    4. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by MikeFM · · Score: 0, Troll

      If Opera 9 has decent CSS support I might agree. Opera 8's CSS support was pretty crappy. Not compatible with Firefox and Safari or IE which just sort of left it as a thorn in my side that wasn't really worth the effort of fixing. Never have figured out if there is a hack around Opera responds to for selecting an Opera only stylesheet. Anyone know?

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    5. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by prichardson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your argument of pragmatism is exactly what keeps millions and millions using Internet Exploder.

      --
      Help I'm a rock.
    6. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by ubernostrum · · Score: 1

      If Opera 9 has decent CSS support I might agree. Opera 8's CSS support was pretty crappy. Not compatible with Firefox and Safari or IE which just sort of left it as a thorn in my side that wasn't really worth the effort of fixing.

      Care to give specific examples?

      Never have figured out if there is a hack around Opera responds to for selecting an Opera only stylesheet. Anyone know?

      Not that I'm aware of. There are hacks for older versions of Opera, but I've not seen any for 8.0, 8.5 or the 9.0 previews.

    7. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      Exactly. But with IE not getting updated for quite some time (although Longhorn will bring an end to that), the other browsers have been able to draw people away with features lacking in IE.

      Now if IE starts getting updated more regularly, people will stick with it. And why not? If it has all the features you want (want enough to move anyway), why change?

    8. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      Mostly bugs in alignment of elements it seems. The site I'm working on now is having a lot of issues with it and I've had similar issues on other sites I've done.

      To be fair I just downloaded and tried the site I'm working on in Opera 9 and am happy to say it renders very well. Looks almost identical to how it looks in Safari. In both Opera and Safari the page is rendered on the left hand side of the window rather than down the middle. Not sure if that is a bug in Opera and Safari or in Firefox but it's not the desired effect and the CSS specs seem to agree with Firefox's rendering. Anyway, it is very usable in Opera 9 which IMO is a great thing.

      Since Opera 9 renders the site correctly, and quite differently from Opera 8, I think it's safe to say that Opera 8 was rendering it wrong.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    9. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      Most of us are concerned with IE losing marketshare, not so much who picks up the pieces.

      If Opera is someday 90%, and Firefox still with only 8%... this is good for Firefox. Opera encourages website developers to write correct xhtml and javascript, which Firefox handles just fine.

    10. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      Why not?

      Because it's alot like trusting that spouse when they tell you that they won't cheat on you ever again. Even though it's the 19th time you've caught them in bed with someone else. Everyone that believes Microsoft's lies about security keeps getting burned.

      And while most people are too ignorant to know, IE is primitive and will remain so. Their javascript doesn't comply with standards. Their browser won't do correct mime types (hey NoMoreNicksLeft, why does it want me to download index.php when I go to your site?). It won't ever have native SVG. Or any of the other important XML variants for that matter.

    11. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never have figured out if there is a hack around Opera responds to for selecting an Opera only stylesheet

      If you are using the new TP2, what about right-click -> Site preferences -> Style? You can have a different style sheet for each site if you want to.

      There were some comparsions of w3c standard implementatinos between browsers, but I couldn't find them now and it would probably not be updated for this new preview anyway. Opera does seem to put their pride into making it the most standard-compliant browser around, but that doesn't mean it'll render most pages correct, as it seem to be not as forgiving as Firefox and IE.

    12. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by ubernostrum · · Score: 1

      Mostly bugs in alignment of elements it seems. The site I'm working on now is having a lot of issues with it and I've had similar issues on other sites I've done.

      Have you looked around here and here to find out whether the issues you're seeing have explanations or workarounds?

    13. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. And, very important:

      NO, IE 7 STILL is the old shitty core inside. It's the same patchwork as Windows ME. New stuff outside, same crap inside.
      (Here even XHTML+CSS2 support counts for "outside")

      That is because you'll still have INTENTIONALLY build-in incompatibilities to lock out competitors.
      Any to anyone who does think that this is okay: PLEASE let me get to your freak list! ;P

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    14. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      To be honest, most people don't care about any of that though. Or at least, not enough to find out about IE and it's many problems.

    15. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by staticsage · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but if you're looking for tab preview with Firefox:

      Tab Preview

    16. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      They will to a point. At 10% marketshare, everyone knows someone that uses Firefox. The right combination of a cool site that doesn't work on IE because it's shit, and word-of-mouth might just see Firefox (and all the others combined, too) jump up 2-5% in a matter of weeks.

      I'm doing stuff that I thought was only ever possible in flash or maybe java. And it's crap now, wait til you see some of the stuff I've got ideas for but not quite the skill yet to implement...

    17. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      Workarounds don't mean the problem isn't a bug. I usually do bother to fix sites for Opera users but it probably isn't actually worth my time for the small percentage of users that actually use Opera. I'm glad Opera 9 seems to fix most of the problems. I love when every browser can see my sites properly but don't want to waste a lot of time making sure they do. With Opera, Firefox, and Safari trying to be standards compliant it makes IE the only one I have to waste a lot of effort on.

      So let me be the first doubting thomas to give a thumbs up to Opera 9.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    18. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by Maian · · Score: 1

      Small nitpick: IE supports ECMAScript (JavaScript) almost perfectly, with a handful of obscure bugs (even Mozilla doesn't support JavaScript 100% if you consider bugs). You're probably referring to its proprietary DOM extensions/changes which JS scripts can access in the browser environment.

    19. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by bunratty · · Score: 1

      However, Opera does little to encourage website developers to drop using document.all, which Firefox does not support nearly as much as Opera. It does little to encourage website developers to send files with the correct MIME types, and Firefox does less MIME type sniffing than Opera. If Opera ever did get 90% share, there would still be plenty of sites that wouldn't work in Firefox, even if they all worked in IE and Opera.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    20. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > argument of pragmatism is exactly what keeps millions and millions using Internet Exploder.

      If we were arguing about which model of car is better, and I said, "I guess I'll just keep the one I've got", would you say, "That's exactly the same argument that keeps so many people riding tricycles"?

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    21. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      If it only added extra things, it would be no big deal. Doesn't work with my good, standards-compliant code at all, not even the simple things. I think I have a button that hides /reveals an element via display style... since it won't even do that, I can't test it further. It's a joke. Is setAttributNS() some proprietary mozilla thing that I don't realize?

    22. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by Kelson · · Score: 1

      If Opera 9 has decent CSS support I might agree. Opera 8's CSS support was pretty crappy.

      No offense... but WTF have you been smoking?

      Opera 8 had pretty damn good CSS support. Well ahead of IE (but then what isn't these days) and comparable to Firefox and Safari. The problem is that no rendering engine today supports the *entire* spec, and each engine supports a slightly different subset.

      To make up some numbers, Gecko 1.8 and Opera 8 might each support 90% of CSS2 specs, plus 5% of CSS3, but the subset of CSS2 covered by both browsers might be 85%, and the shared subset of CSS3 might be 2%.

      Position Is Everything and How To Create have some nice examples showing errors or gaps in various browsers' support. There are techniques Opera gets right that Gecko doesn't alongside techniques that Gecko gets right that Opera doesn't.

    23. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by prichardson · · Score: 1

      Cars aren't free. Web browsers are.

      If you were buying a new car, I would encourage you to try new models, not just get the latest in life of the model you already have.

      Next time try an apt analogy.

      --
      Help I'm a rock.
    24. Re:Little benefit to Firefox these days. by Maian · · Score: 1

      All the setAttribute stuff, the document.createElement, document.write, etc. - all that is the Document Object Model (DOM). It's not part of JS. JS is a language, and the DOM is a library provided by the browser environment. For example, in IE, VBScript can access the same DOM methods as it can in JS. Mozilla in the future will support Python access to the DOM.

  4. Of course by Ctrl+Alt+De1337 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "However, some clear indications that this is still an alpha release is..."

    Nightmarish grammar aside, the biggest clear indication that this is not final is the "Opera 9 Technology Preview 2" title on the linked page. Also, there is the fact that it is Opera labs, not the main site. Contrary to what the title would lead you to believe, this is just an open beta.

    The big splash is the widgets. I am of the opinion though that the widget concept is being overdone completely. Now, you can have start.com widgets running in your Opera browser with widgets on your OS with widgets (either OS X Tiger's dashboard/Windows Vista Beta Sidebar or via third-party stuff a la Konfabulator/Superkaramba/Object Desktop). Enough alreay. How many different ways do I need to get my local weather forecast?

    1. Re:Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was also very suprised to hear about the widgets, (It's really not something you would expect from a browser O_o) and I thought the same thing as you. But after thinking a little and trying the concept, I have changed my mind a little. I mean, how often do you open a new page and and navigate to currency converter/dictionary etc.? I know this is covered by the panels to some extend, but I actually think the widgets will work better.

      (But to be honest, I would've liked it more if they used the resources to improve M2, the downloadmangaer, added better synchronizations features and fixed more bugs)

    2. Re:Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unlike all those widgets apps from vista or Mac OSX, Opera's ones are 100% multi platform just like Opera itself, and can be made with simple html/css/js. See the advantage ?!?

    3. Re:Of course by Kelson · · Score: 1

      They seem to be very similar to Mac OS X's widgets -- HTML/CSS/JavaScript -- with a few differences. Namely the config file is a differnt format, and while Dashboard widgets are put in a widgetname.wdgt folder and then zipped, Opera widgets are put in a zip file that's renamed as widgetname.wdgt.

      In theory, as long as you're not doing anything Mac-specific, you could write one widget and use a Makefile or script to automatically create both Opera and Dashboard versions.

  5. The best. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Glad to hear it. For my money, this is the best browser living. And I say that as a Mac user who has windows of Safari and Firefox and Camino open all day. Not to mention the occassional foray into Shiira, Icab, and IE for page testing.

    I always had the idea that Operants were people with too much time and money on their hands. But when it went free, I grabbed it right away, and after figuring out some of the frustrating GUI anomalies, I've never looked back. I haven't opened anything else since on my ancient night box, which was running close to crippled with my previous #1, Firefox (memory leaks, I guess, is the rumor).

  6. I give it an A+. by CyricZ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been using the FreeBSD release today, and my gosh, does it ever fly! It doesn't feel as responsive as Konqueror, but it still is a fantastic browser.

    The email client is vastly improved, and it feels much quicker than in previous releases. It was quite quick at listing my 1800 MB mailbox, and it's now possible to scroll through the entries at a rapid pace without delay.

    The opera:config feature is quite nice, and presented very well. It's far nicer to view than the comparable about:config capabilities of Firefox, yet just as easy to locate and modify preferences.

    Overall, this release is an improvement over the last, while still retaining the small size and high responsiveness that Opera is known for. I give it an A+.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    1. Re:I give it an A+. by CyricZ · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I'm glad that it uses Qt. I have found Qt-based applications to perform far superior to GTK+ based ones, for instance. Qt is an extremely well written toolkit, and its performance is superb. The Opera themes support works wonders, too.

      As for the matter of extensibility, it's just not necessary! Opera includes by default all the capabilities you'll likely need. While Firefox users must resort to a myriad of extensions, Opera users just enable the features they want, and off they go! No downloads or nonsense like that.

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    2. Re:I give it an A+. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      How on earth can you give such a score to an application that uses QT, provides such poor control over document colors & fonts, and offers almost no extensibility?

      That is simply not true. Check Tools/Preferences/Advanced/Fonts, as well as T/P/A/Content/Style Options. Opera also allows to easily turn off the document style sheet with a single mouse click or a single keypress, and replace it with a user stylesheet (great for sites with white text on a dark background, IMHO). You need yet another extension to do that in Firefox. As for extensibility - what did you have in mind? Content blocking is here. RSS extension isn't needed, and I expect there to be some widgets to replace the "allmighty" WeatherFox whatsitsname.
    3. Re:I give it an A+. by FromWithin · · Score: 1

      How an earth can you be such a blinkered arse?

  7. Already there by Nichotin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Opera has been a worthy competitor for a long time, but what keeps amusing me is that they pack 10032894208492 features, and a pony, into the browser, and it still does not feel bloated (not compared to some apps, that have two features and a eye candy interface which makes your eyes fall out).
    Don't like using one program for browsing, mail, and bittorrent? Then don't. Just use the browsing capabilities, and the rest of the features will be sufficiently hid away.

    1. Re:Already there by CyricZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed. The download for FreeBSD was 6 MB, with a statically-linked version of Qt. It's quite fantastic how much they manage to pack into such a small package.

      We often hear how Firefox's greatest strength is its extensions. Well, to be honest, when you're using Opera you don't need to delve into extensions. Opera includes all the functionality you want by default.

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    2. Re:Already there by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's probably because Opera's UI isn't driven by XML and JavaScript.

    3. Re:Already there by pherthyl · · Score: 1

      And unless they do some serious size optimizations, Qt accounts for a fairly large chunk of that 6MB. In my experience, about 2 to 3 megs.

    4. Re:Already there by Cl1mh4224rd · · Score: 1
      Opera includes all the functionality you want by default.
      Even convoluted cookie management.

      Ok, so that was kind of trollish, but honestly... I can't stand Opera's cookie management.
      --
      People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
    5. Re:Already there by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 1

      Which also explains why Opera doesn't have an "extensions" user base anywhere near approaching Firefox's.

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    6. Re:Already there by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      I agree. Didn't a few QNX developers go missing about the time Opera came into being?

    7. Re:Already there by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      Nice having a choice again, isn't it? We have at least* two browsers that are worthy, and now we can be picky about little details like that.

      *Probably more like 4. By most of the standards that I use, Safari and Konqueror are both pretty close to Opera and Firefox.

    8. Re:Already there by Justin205 · · Score: 1

      My Gentoo ebuild (non-static linked) says 3400 KB, compared to 5600KB for the static. I'd say you're right on. :)

      --
      "Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you."
    9. Re:Already there by a.d.trick · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Mabye all the functionality you want, but not all the functionality that Iwant. That said, it is a pretty nice browser and one that I'd definitly recommend.

    10. Re:Already there by Cl1mh4224rd · · Score: 1
      Nice having a choice again, isn't it? We have at least* two browsers that are worthy, and now we can be picky about little details like that.
      Oh, absolutely.

      Opera's a fine browser, and I'd really like to use on a regular basis, but little things like that are deal breakers for me: A cookie management interface that's worse than IE's. "Apply these settings for entire domain" vs. "Accept cookies for server/domain"? Huh? Entering "google.com" should produce the same result as the first option, but... it doesn't. Argh.

      Am I alone here?
      --
      People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
    11. Re:Already there by :jax: · · Score: 1
      Ok, so that was kind of trollish, but honestly... I can't stand Opera's cookie management.
      I agree. This is one part of Opera that I have thought was needlessly cumbersome. This is improving though, as can be seen with this Technical Preview.
    12. Re:Already there by baadger · · Score: 1

      Has been improved greatly in TP2. I'm glad they finally changed the cryptic double drop-down settings to some plain english checkboxes and radios.

    13. Re:Already there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But at least I don't have to sit down with a new Firefox install and think, "Ok now which extension do I have to install to actually have tabbed browsing on this thing?" Why is it so hard for Firefox to understand "Open Windows in tabs. Yes, ALL OF THEM."?

  8. Not needed yet... by Afecks · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This really won't matter until all BT clients support web-seeding, that is, seeding peers via HTTP without the need for a dedicated client doing the seeding. Then every website, even those hosted on shared servers, will be able to easily provide torrents to their vistors and in turn their vistors will already support BT without extra software to install. AFAIK only BitTornado supports it and I really dislike that client. This is a crucial step for BT to really prove itself to be useful for more legitimate purposes.

  9. What next? CEO to swim Atlantic again? by deunan_k · · Score: 5, Funny

    Heh..

    In reference to the previous ver 8, the CEO promises to swim from Norway to USA, with a brief stopover for mom's hot coffee in Iceland. That is, if the download reaches 1,000,000 in 4 days..

    Apparently it did! I remembered downloading a copy, in a bid to see such sport, but alas..

    Press Release

    Previously, it was reported that the attempt failed due to various reasons, including physical condition. Let's hope he's is fitter this time around.

    Yeah, no malfunctioning support raft.

    Swim Attempt Report


    Sincere regards to Opera Team..

    -PS Crazy stunts like these are really fun!

    --
    Will sys-admin for food
  10. I like it.. by techefnet · · Score: 1, Interesting

    This is good. I like it that corporates take use of the BitTorrent technology. Now if only Opera became opensource, I could maybe consider take use of it. *g* Heh, nah. Only problem is that it does not have builds for any recent versions of my distro (Slackware). The one I found worked a while, then it started segfaulting when I tried to go to websites.

    1. Re:I like it.. by willowb · · Score: 1

      I'm using it with Slackware 10.2 just fine. Try the links for 5-shared-qt

  11. A darn good job. by bogaboga · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I thank Opera for a darn good job. I find the [Opera] browser very very good. In fact, better than any browser out there. But wonder why it is still not that popular.

    As a programmer, I also wonder how they designed the engine to be soooo fast, that even makers of other browsers cannot figure out how to replicate what makes Opera fast, into their browsers. Can anyone enlighten me?

    1. Re:A darn good job. by MikeFM · · Score: 0, Troll

      By cutting corners I'd guess. They don't render pages all that well. If you don't follow spec then it's not that hard to go faster.

      Not that it's not some good programming involved too.. probably they do have an impressive parser and rendering engine speed-wise. Just pointing out one obvious way they get some of that speed.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    2. Re:A darn good job. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least in my case, I stick with Safari because I love my URL autocomplete from bookmarks. None of the other browsers seem to do it. Oh sure, they do URL autocomplete in the bar from history, but not from bookmarks as well. Firefox has a couple of extensions that appear to copy your bookmarks into your history list, but I tried one and it crashed, and the other doesn't seem supported for the latest Firefox.

      So I stick with Safari :) If Opera did that, I'd swap in a second :)
      I'm guessing other people have the similar reasons to hold off from swapping. Opera has some great features, but not the ones I want :\

    3. Re:A darn good job. by CyricZ · · Score: 2, Informative

      You must not have used Opera to make such patently incorrect claims. They do not cut corners with their engine. It supports the various standards just fine, if not far better than its competitors.

      When compared to Firefox, its performance is superb. I know a number of people who used to use Firefox, but ended up switching to Opera 8.51. They just got tired of the memory leaks of Firefox, and were especially disappointed by the very poor 1.5 release.

      Opera has become to Firefox what Firefox became to Internet Explorer. Put simply, it is a superior browser. Trying it out for a day is often enough to make one switch.

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    4. Re:A darn good job. by Lisandro · · Score: 0

      Opera renders pages as good (and even better) than Opera, Konqueror, and the bunch. You should give it a try.

    5. Re:A darn good job. by e5150 · · Score: 1

      well, you can make aliases for your bookmarks in opera, so i don't see any need for autocompletion. ;)

    6. Re:A darn good job. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn troll!

      Opera is known for its excellent standards support.
      Do you know who Opera's CTO is?

    7. Re:A darn good job. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll look into that. Thanks :)

    8. Re:A darn good job. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      At least in my case, I stick with Safari because I love my URL autocomplete from bookmarks. None of the other browsers seem to do it. Oh sure, they do URL autocomplete in the bar from history, but not from bookmarks as well.

      I agree, that would be nice to have (or maybe it's there, but I haven't found it yet; I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case). If you're willing to live with a couple more keypresses or mouse clicks, though, you can try opening the Manage Bookmarks page or the Bookmarks panel. The filter is automatically selected, so you can start typing immediately. All it takes is a few Tabs and an Enter to select the wanted bookmark (or a double-click), and there you go. Another nice thing is the turbo bookmark system; you can assign an alias to a bookmark (such as "sd" for Slashdot), press Shift+F2 (dunno on the Mac) and start typing. As soon as the letters uniquely identify a bookmark, Opera will open it. Or you can type the alias in the address bar and press Enter.
    9. Re:A darn good job. by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      I keep the newest version around and test against it - Opera 8 has crappy CSS support. Maybe Opera 9 is better. I'll have to check.

      I've had no problems with Firefox 1.5 itself although a couple of the extensions I like did develop minor bugs. I often open up fifty tabs at a time and don't have any major memory problems although I'm sure some exist.

      Only Safari gets close to matching Firefox's standards support. It's great to see this competition to be the best at standards support though. Firefox, Safari, and Opera can slug it out and it'll be great for all of us. I hope Opera 9 is raising the bar. Competition is good.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    10. Re:A darn good job. by skiflyer · · Score: 1

      I've had no problems with Firefox 1.5 itself although a couple of the extensions I like did develop minor bugs. I often open up fifty tabs at a time and don't have any major memory problems although I'm sure some exist.

      Firefox extensions make Firefox something great... buggy Firefox extensions cause 99% of the memory leaks discussed (it especially seems like people neglect the fact that Web Developer has some significant leaks).

      Oh well, what're you going to do, you support buggy extensions and you'll get a bad rep. for it... I'm downloading this version of opera to toy with it, but it'll have to be something pretty special to consider a full out switch.

    11. Re:A darn good job. by cruachan · · Score: 1

      Nope. I use Opera all the time since swapping from Firefox about 6 months ago and I have no practical page rendering issues whatsoever.

      The plain truth is that Firefox is a pile of shite. Half of the Geek community doesn't want to admit it because of it's Open Source credentials, but the memory leak bugs in Firefox are an Archillies heel that goes right up to the neck. The leaks were there in version 0.9 and they're still they're in version 1.51, which just shows what a crap development model Open Source can be because everyone focuses on the 'cool f3tures' and not actually fixing essential bug and making the program usable.

      I tried with Firefox, honestly I did. It's tabbed browsing feature was sooo much more usable after IE's hell of multiple windows. But once it became apparent that I'd have to reboot my PC half a dozen times a day when it slows to a crawl and bloats it's way through my 1Gb of RAM (and a restart of just Firefox doesn't help) it got consigned to the 'bloody useless' pile 5 minutes after loading Opera.

    12. Re:A darn good job. by MikeFM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They need to do some work on making sure popular extensions are well supported and bug free and easier to find. Things like adblock and forcastfox should never be an issue.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    13. Re:A darn good job. by hkmwbz · · Score: 1
      "Opera 8 has crappy CSS support."
      What a joke. Opera 8 has better CSS support than Firefox, and that's a simple fact.
      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    14. Re:A darn good job. by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      What OS are you using? Firefox can get a little sluggish on my machine that only has a half gig of ram. But it sure as hell isn't persistent through an application restart. That's an OS problem.

      Firefox has its problems. I don't deny it. But hell, this is the only issue I ever hear people complain about that sounds like a real problem at all... they'll fix it eventually. And at this rate, long before IE7 is out. In the meantime, use whatever you want, use anything at all... as long as it's not IE.

    15. Re:A darn good job. by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      I use Firefox in Linux, Windows, and OS X without memory problems. And certainly the systems I'm using aren't, as a whole, very powerful machines with a lot of RAM. I'd suspect people are having problems with buggy plugins and extensions. It'd be great if Firefox would keep these from causing problems though.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    16. Re:A darn good job. by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      Obviously you don't know the CSS standard very well and don't use it much. Opera 9 is much improved though. If Opera 8 was so perfect then why does Opera 9 work where 8 didn't. Funny that 9 renders the CSS the way Firefox and Safari does.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    17. Re:A darn good job. by hkmwbz · · Score: 2, Informative

      Opera 9 obviously improves on Opera's CSS support. I never said it was perfect (neither is Firefox's - by far). But Opera 8 already has better CSS support than Firefox.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    18. Re:A darn good job. by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      The only real complaint I have against Firefox's CSS support is lack of text shadows. What I do in it works as I expect from reading the standards and mostly matches Safari (and it seems now Opera 9). I have used virtually every feature of CSS1 and CSS2 and some of the CSS3 elements supported and they work. I can't say the same for Opera 8.

      Any examples of where Opera 8 works better than Firefox? I gave the example that Firefox is better at element positioning than Opera 8 (which has held up to the Opera 9 test) so why not give me some tests the other way to show that Opera 8 has it's own strengths.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    19. Re:A darn good job. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeha, well, the "problem" is that it's not the Mozilla team that develops these plugins (I put problem in hyphens, as this is also the strength of the plugins). They could possibly create a certification program for plugins, but who'd want to take on that job?

    20. Re:A darn good job. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You can't seriously mean you can draw a conclusion about standards compliance from one issue you had with a webpage you were writing yourself.

      Since you did not provide us with a link to the site, it is very hard for us to tell what is going on.
      If Opera 8 was so perfect then why does Opera 9 work where 8 didn't. Funny that 9 renders the CSS the way Firefox and Safari does.
      It could be a bug in Opera 8 (Opera definitely has bugs in its CSS implementation; there is no bugfree software), but there are also other possibilities.
      Maybe your code is not perfect and the way buggy (non-standard) code is handled changed in Opera 9.
      Maybe the standard was not clear and Opera decided to change their previous interpretation and behavior to match with IE and FF.

      But if you really wanted a solution, you would not complain here on slashdot but report the issue in the Opera forums.

      Bug or not, Opera has great CSS support.
    21. Re:A darn good job. by cruachan · · Score: 1

      WindowsXP sp2. 1Gb RAM, 2.2Mhz CPU. I'll be using Firefox for a while, then it will hit a page it doesn't like and rendering slows to a crawl, and stays that way for that page and all other pages accessed thereafter. Memory usage shoots through the roof. Stopping and restarting Firefox makes no difference - a full system reboot is required.

      I'm not exactly sure what causes it, I do have several plugins installed - but all standard 'editor picks' ones. I've a suspicion it's connected to Flash, but have never managed to isolate it. If you look through the web/news there's quite a few other reports of similar behaviour, going back to verion 0.9 at least.

      It is Firefox though, not the OS (or at least Firefox interacting with the OS). When we get into the slow state all other programs continue to run normally and opening up IE and navigating to the websites I've visited with Firefox it has no problem. Ditto Opera.

      I'm quite prepared to believe it's a plugin problem at some level, but the fact remains that if it is then Firefox's plugin model is broken.

    22. Re:A darn good job. by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      So many flash ads out there now. And a bad flash game does tend to kill mine (3ghz p4, and it still slows to a crawl while simultaneously overheating the machine).

      Would be interesting to know which page, and if it's reproducible. Wonder if there's any simple fix though.

    23. Re:A darn good job. by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      Funny that you should mention positioning, seeing as this is exactly one of the things Firefox sucks at compared to Opera 8. And positioned generated content... Ouch, it is painful to even think about Firefox's implementation.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    24. Re:A darn good job. by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      As a programmer, I also wonder how they designed the engine to be soooo fast, that even makers of other browsers cannot figure out how to replicate what makes Opera fast, into their browsers.

      Have you used Konqueror or Safari? Opera is only impressively fast compared to Internet Explorer and Firefox.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    25. Re:A darn good job. by inerte · · Score: 1

      Opera has far better CSS support than FF and IE.

      What you may have seem is a feature supported by FF but not by Opera, but overall, the opposite is true.

      Care to say what code fails on Opera 8.5, btw? I am not trying to discredit you, but Opera is my "normal" and "development" browser of choice, so I am just honestly curious...

    26. Re:A darn good job. by AaronLawrence · · Score: 1

      This is a Mozilla enhancement.
      You'll have to manually copy the URL since Bugzilla disables Slashdot links.
      https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10164 2

      Go vote for it ...

      --
      For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
    27. Re:A darn good job. by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      Maybe if you designed your pages and tested them for a busted browser like IE or Opera 8 then of course they'll look wrong in Firefox or Safari which is showing the pages correctly.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    28. Re:A darn good job. by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      Positioning. Things such as top, bottom, left, right seem to be the worst offenders. They just weren't aligned correctly. And I'll hold that it was buggy in Opera 8 since, as I said, Opera 9 is showing them correctly.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    29. Re:A darn good job. by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      No, Firefox gets it wrong unfortunately. Firefox is a nice browser, but its CSS doesn't quite reach Opera's level of excellence.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    30. Re:A darn good job. by JordanL · · Score: 1

      As a testament to the viability of this browser, I have had my work computer on, with 15+ tabs open, for over 1.5 weeks now... still no debilitating memory leaks....

    31. Re:A darn good job. by John+Courtland · · Score: 1

      I guarantee that you are either not doing it right or are in a CSS position: that has a nonstandard implementation in Firefox. I use those elements like I'm addicted to them and have never had a failure. One thing Opera DOES do that sucks is if you have an element positioned off the current browser window, and you set it to display: block; it will not extend the window frame. No big deal, I probably shouldn't be going off the end anyhow, but that's the only thing I've noticed and I have written some pretty damn heavy AJAX windowing routines.

      --
      Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
    32. Re:A darn good job. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, um, up until Firefox 1.5, my website looked like utter CRAP in Firefox because Firefox got the positioning all wrong, while IE, Opera, Konqueror, Safarai - basically "anything else" - got it right. And it was definitely Firefox being screwed up with positioning. It was off by a matter of pixels, but those added up over time. It just totally screwed it up.

      Firefox 1.5 seems to solve most of the strange layout issues, but Firefox 1.0 was crap when it came to CSS support.

    33. Re:A darn good job. by CyricZ · · Score: 1

      hkmwbz is correct. You can verify that he is correct by reading over the applicable W3C standards. It is quite clear after doing so that Opera is performing correctly, while Firefox is not.

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
  12. Your skepticism is understandable. by CyricZ · · Score: 1

    I understand where you're coming from. Indeed, it often is difficult to change one's browser on a whim. But this time it's actually worth it, and this is only a beta-quality release!

    Do you remember that feeling you got when you first used Firefox? Indeed, it often gave people that rush of "I'm trying something new, and by jove, I love it!" Well, you'll likely get the same feeling if you give this release of Opera a try.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    1. Re:Your skepticism is understandable. by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      The reason I moved to Firefox wasn't for a "new browser" feeling, but was for privacy (the rest of the family used IE), and tabs as well as the extensions. If I went to Opera, I'd be doing it for... tab preview. Not enough to get me to move.

      As I said, great for IE users to move to Opera. Not so great for your typical Firefox user (now your typical slashdot user, sure).

    2. Re:Your skepticism is understandable. by pherthyl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If I went to Opera, I'd be doing it for... tab preview.

      And performance.. That's a biggie. But then you lose the warm fuzzies of using an open source program, as well as the guarantee that the program is absolutely not installing any spyware or compromising your privacy. It's always a tradeoff.

    3. Re:Your skepticism is understandable. by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Hmm... i think the main pros and cons look like this:

      Where Opera is better:
      - extremely fast page rendering. if you think firefox is fast, i have something for you: in opera the only way to see that you just reloaded a page is by seeing other banners on the page. (so with an adblocker you'll ask yourself: did it really reload right now?)
          this makes the "rocker"-gestures much better: you can easily go "right mouse button down, left mouse button click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click, left mouse button release" in a mad speed without any problems. try this in firefox. it most times does not recognize the release of the right button or do something mad like zooming images when you click on them.
      - everything inside. somewhat like the mozilla suite. but primailiy focused on users, not developers.
      - many funtions that you can get as en extension in firefox came from opera (even tabbed browsing). and i think opera got it right, while many copies in firefox aren't that great. they're just not that mature in things of usability.
      - no interpreting layer for the ui.
      - renderer not as bloated and chaotic as gecko.

      Where firefox is better:
      - many more extensions for every thing you could think of. very easily extensible.
      - cleaner and better standards support. more technologies implemented.
      - very good web-developers support with venkman, webdev toolbar, dom inspector, css-inplace-editor and whatever you can think of.
      - truly open source. modify it if you like (an can! ;).

      So in the end there is no "best" browser.
      I'm using Firefox as my development browser and Opera as my "normal user" browser for exactly the reasons stated above.
      At the end this is no war.

      The only thing i would wish for is: Firefox:
      - Do a complete rewrite of Gecko. This time CLEAN PLEASE!
      - GTFO those stupid tons of layers of between the ui and the cpu. XML always was a pretty stupid idea for on-the-fly usage and will always be. At least you could create an on-the-fly compilation if the xml- and js-files changed, and then use the compiled modules.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    4. Re:Your skepticism is understandable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Where firefox is better: - cleaner and better standards support. more technologies implemented.
      This is simply not true! If one of them has to be the better one in this regard, then it would be Opera.
    5. Re:Your skepticism is understandable. by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      I almost gave up on Firefox, to return to Mozilla. I liked the "Modern theme", hate the XPish theme Firefox had. Til I stumbled upon a clone. That gave it a week or so worth of reprieve.

      Then, I found Download Statusbar. Why the thing isn't the default download manager for 2.0, I don't really know. Honestly, it kicks ass.

      And Adblock was nice. Session Saver was better. I learned little tricks like getting rid of a bookmark's name on the bookmark toolbar, just using the favicon. I can fit 40 or so in without even ever touching the bookmarks menu. Even better was the Favicon Picker extension... the few sites that didn't have a favicon could be given one. (Even more offtopic: Anyone have a good 16x16 dilbert icon?)

      So, I myself wouldn't try this just for the sake of trying. It's hard to imagine anything better in the ways that I define "better". But as a guy working on a website, I did decide to try and see if Opera could do some things I thought would make my site Firefox-only. It's passed with flying colors. Guess IE just sucks.

    6. Re:Your skepticism is understandable. by CyricZ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have a difficult time calling Firefox a truly open source project. Sure, the source code is available, and you can redistribute and modify it, and all that. But when you truly look at it, it's a mess. Somebody could easily sneak malicious code in there, and to be honest, most programmers wouldn't be able to tell if it was malicious, or if it was part of the software.

      While it's less likely that an open source program includes malicious code, it isn't something we should rule out completely. That holds especially true for overly complex codebases like Mozilla, where it'd take years for one person to completely audit the source code. The source code is available, but it's not truly accessible.

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    7. Re:Your skepticism is understandable. by Nasarius · · Score: 2, Insightful
      the guarantee that the program is absolutely not installing any spyware or compromising your privacy.

      Have you scrutinized every single line of Firefox source? No? Then you really don't have that guarantee. Don't get me wrong, I love open source -- I was a Gentoo dev until I got sick of the politics, and now I contribute to various projects. But it's a bad idea to claim that "open source = no malware", because you can't make that promise unless the code has truly been audited.

      --
      LOAD "SIG",8,1
    8. Re:Your skepticism is understandable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm posting this anonymously because I am sure to be modded into oblivion...

      Firefox is open source only in the sense that the code is available under an open source license. The repository is closed off from the public.

      YOU CANNOT CONTRIBUTE CODE TO FF - THE DEVELOPERS DO NOT TAKE PATCHES! EVER!

    9. Re:Your skepticism is understandable. by bunratty · · Score: 1

      All code that goes into Firefox is reviewed by a peer programmer, and then the code is superreviewed. How could somebody "easily sneak malicious code in there"?

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    10. Re:Your skepticism is understandable. by pherthyl · · Score: 1

      Well open source doesn't mean no malware automatically, but _popular_ open source means no malware. I can release some malware under the GPL easily enough, but there is no way malware would make it into a high-profile project like Firefox all the way to being included in a official release. There are processes in place to prevent that sort of thing.

    11. Re:Your skepticism is understandable. by steeviant · · Score: 1

      Where firefox is better: - cleaner and better standards support. more technologies implemented.

      This is simply not true! If one of them has to be the better one in this regard, then it would be Opera.


      If HTML compliance were an important metric of anything in 2006, then Opera would have better support, unfortunately for Opera's fan club, it's CSS support (all versions) is still sorely lacking. The worst of any mainstream browser in fact.

      What this means in practice is that more pages will display with formatting errors in Opera than IE, Gecko or KHTML powered browsers. But hey, at least it makes the mistakes REALLY FAST!

  13. P2P v2.0 by DonZorro · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This could change the perception and add a new twist to the RIAA lawsuits against P2P users...simply because P2P would now be given credit for helping all kinds of content providers overcome their bandwidth problems.

    Think...seeding/leeching CNN homepage

    1. Re:P2P v2.0 by camryl · · Score: 1

      I don't understand how distribution through bittorrent would be an attractive option for webpages with a lot of content updates-- e.g. the front page of any newspaper or blog. It seems like users would end up leeching a lot of stale content.

      --
      camryl
  14. It's a matter of marketing and hype. by CyricZ · · Score: 1

    Firefox has a huge amount of marketing and hype behind it. That's why it's more popular that Opera. Now, these days many people are beginning to run into problems with Firefox, namely due to its poor memory management. People are beginning to question the validity of the hype, and many are switching to alternative browsers like Opera, Konqueror, Safari and OmniWeb. As long as these alternative browsers keep innovating at the pace they have been lately, Firefox may not be able to keep up.

    As for others replicating the fantastic capabilities of the engine of Opera, it has been done. Konqueror is a prime example. Often times it feels far more slick than even Opera. Unfortunately, it is limited to Unix platforms these days. That may change in the future, however, with the release of KDE 4. A native version of Konqueror for Windows may be just the thing necessary to get more people to switch away from IE.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    1. Re:It's a matter of marketing and hype. by Nasarius · · Score: 1
      Firefox has a huge amount of marketing and hype behind it. That's why it's more popular that Opera.

      I'd also point out that, until quite recently, Opera was the only significant browser that cost money (or forced you to put up with ads). Personally, the biggest reason I'm using Firefox is the combination of AdBlock and the Filterset.G Updater.

      --
      LOAD "SIG",8,1
    2. Re:It's a matter of marketing and hype. by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      Firefox has a huge amount of marketing and hype behind it. That's why it's more popular that Opera.

      Oh, and there's that whole closed source thing that keeps many of us from looking at Opera as anything more than a novelty. I mean, I acknowledge that they've done a nice job, but I don't need another proprietary browser when the F/OSS competitors are so evenly matched.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    3. Re:It's a matter of marketing and hype. by bunratty · · Score: 1

      Mozilla was more popular than Opera soon after Mozilla 1.0 was out (in 2002) and Phoenix (as Firefox was known back then) was just starting. Firefox is not more popular due just to hype, as Mozilla browsers were more popular before the Firefox hype ever started. As far as I can tell, Firefox use is still climbing, as is Safari use, and Opera use is holding steady. This same pattern has persisted for years. I don't see any evidence that many Firefox users are switching to other browsers.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
  15. Impressive by Regnard · · Score: 1

    I'm using it right now, as I write this comment...

    Anyways, I've started to use Opera on a more regular basis when it came out with the "free" version in 8, and as I keep using it, the more I'm liking it.

    The bittorrent integration is a nice feature, although I haven't seen the thumbnail preview (which I find the most interesting feature).

    --
    Need a color? Try 100 random colors
    1. Re:Impressive by Khuffie · · Score: 1
      Just hover over the tab in your tab bar.

      Also, just to note that this is still really buggy. I installed it earlier, and it kept crashing at a certain site. Yes, I know its still in alpha, just a note for those trying Opera for the first time. Opera 8.51 is stable, so don't take the frequent crashes into consideration for Opera 9 just yet :)

    2. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      please post that website url here, or better, at the Opera forums.
      http://my.opera.com/community/forums/

  16. But the question is ... by sabit666 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    ... will it clean my bathroom?

  17. Good :D by ASUSanator · · Score: 1

    The implementation of userscripts.org is good. One of the things keeping me on firefox is the greasemonkey extension. Opera is really a better overall browser and now i feel it has everything i want in a browser. I am not a huge BT user but when i do use it, it will be good not to need to install azureus just to download one file.

    1. Re:Good :D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought Opera 8 could already run a lot of greasemonkey scripts in addition to its own more powerful user javascript implementation.

    2. Re:Good :D by ASUSanator · · Score: 1

      It might have, but i didn't know about it. I used to use it all the time in 7.x then only a couple of times in 8 and a couple of times with the first 9 technical release. Just the article said it can now run more scrips from userscripts.org so i am assuming that it couldn't run many/them very well before ? I don't know, these are all assumptions from me. I will download this new release and give it a good run.

    3. Re:Good :D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From http://snapshot.opera.com/windows/w90p2.html:
      Multiple fixes for XPath and XSLT.
      getAttribute and related methods now retrieve the specified value of URIs, instead of resolved values.
      Enabled getElementById to retrieve elements based on attributes set to the ID type, by the DTD.
      Many path() fixes

      Among others, these are stuff that add more support for the scripts at userscripts.org

    4. Re:Good :D by :jax: · · Score: 1

      The equivalent technology is called User JavaScript with Opera. Greasemonkey scripts can be run in Opera, a tutorial has more detail. You can also run User JavaScript, which you could find for instance on the userjs.org site.

  18. Its CSS, CSS2 and CSS3 support is superb. by CyricZ · · Score: 2, Informative

    This release of Opera offers excellent support for CSS, CSS2, and even CSS3. Many have suggested that it is, at this point, superior to that offered by any existing browser on the market. Of course, this is the cutting edge of their product line, so one would expect it to be at the top of its game.

    --
    Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
    1. Re:Its CSS, CSS2 and CSS3 support is superb. by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      In Opera 9? If so I'll be glad to see it out. Opera 8 was disappointing.

      I'd love to see Opera and Safari support things like XUL so that we could create really rich cross-browser apps. I know Mozilla has submitted most of those specs for standardization so maybe it could happen. That kind of rich app could let those three seriously kill IE if developers would embrace such rich interfaces.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    2. Re:Its CSS, CSS2 and CSS3 support is superb. by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 1

      People can't seem to write a XUL application that doesn't break when there's a new Mozilla release, so it's doesn't seem like much of a standard.

      Except for things specifically designed to be brower extentions, it would seem like XUL is a near total failure as a development toolkit. No wonder because "rich cross-browser apps" have been possible in both Java and Flash for some time.

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    3. Re:Its CSS, CSS2 and CSS3 support is superb. by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      Funny that I haven't had any trouble with it. I do a lot of my intranet code in XUL.

      Java and Flash are much more heavy approaches. Practically you're just downloading a program and running it on the user's machine. I could do the same thing by writing an app in just about any language. I've written Java and Flash programs and they do have their uses but they are not a real standard for lightweight applications. The benefit to web-based apps is in not having to download a heavy program and learn a new interface (although some web apps sure try to make new interfaces). I've yet to use a XUL app where I had to endure a 'loading' screen or blank square in the middle of my screen.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    4. Re:Its CSS, CSS2 and CSS3 support is superb. by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      People can't seem to write a XUL application that doesn't break when there's a new Mozilla release, so it's doesn't seem like much of a standard.

      I believe this is a "feature" (as in, something spefically designed into the browser) so that extensions have to be tested by their creator (or whoever's distributing it) every time there's a firefox update. Instead of having the default be all extensions work with the new update. The default is that all extensions break under a new update.

      Me, I'd prefer backwards compatibility being a big part of Firefox, or at the very least, stateful disabling of broken extensions. The current "solution" is the one that requires least effort on the Firefox development team. But causes the most work for users and extension writers.

    5. Re:Its CSS, CSS2 and CSS3 support is superb. by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 1

      OK then, how do you explain XUL's lack of popularity? If there's a non-browser, non-mozilla XUL app out there, I haven't heard of it.

      The only rational explaination that I've heard was from a XUL developer on a Mozilla list who said basically "You broke my app again, and this time I'm not going to fix it." You want others to adopt XUL, but I'm not sure that mozilla wants others to adopt XUL either.

      Java and Flash might not be ideal, but they sure are established, and provide well-known targets for your applications.

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    6. Re:Its CSS, CSS2 and CSS3 support is superb. by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 1

      Why would they make this a "feature"? Probably because they are fully aware that they're fucking with the API.

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    7. Re:Its CSS, CSS2 and CSS3 support is superb. by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      Um, and why wouldn't you write it up as a xhtml/javascript/xmlhttprequest webapp anyway? XUL offers nothing new really. Sure, if you want to design local apps based on it (chatzilla) it's pretty snazzy, but those will run using the firefox engine anyway...

    8. Re:Its CSS, CSS2 and CSS3 support is superb. by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      I will agree that Java and Flash are better established just from being around longer. XUL is newer and therefore more likely to suffer changes. I think it is probably not yet used much outside of Mozilla because they've yet to make much of a push of it and that most of it's uses are probably, like mine, for Intranets where you can be sure all the browsers are Firefox. Since IE doesn't support it you can't really do a public website in it.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    9. Re:Its CSS, CSS2 and CSS3 support is superb. by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      XUL offers much nicer widgets than normal HTML. To create the same widgets in HTML would be a lot more work or impossible.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    10. Re:Its CSS, CSS2 and CSS3 support is superb. by LLuthor · · Score: 1

      If there's a non-browser, non-mozilla XUL app out there, I haven't heard of it.

      Activestate Komodo.

      That said, your point still stands... there are almost no non-mozilla apps built on XUL.

      --
      LL
    11. Re:Its CSS, CSS2 and CSS3 support is superb. by bunratty · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, Opera is just now adding support for XSLT, which IE, Firefox, and Mozilla have supported for quite some time. In some ways, Opera's still playing catch-up. Sure, excellent support for CSS is great, but you can't even view some sites in Opera 8 because it doesn't support XSLT.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    12. Re:Its CSS, CSS2 and CSS3 support is superb. by Tack · · Score: 1

      I noticed that this release of opera supports the opacity style. It's viciously slow, but hopefully they'll improve things for the final release. Still no support for column-width though.

  19. Bittorrent and Firefox by citizenc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Question: why has Opera managed to incorporate Bittorrent support into their browser, yet the only torrent plugins for Firefox are in a horrendous state of pre-development? WTF is going on here?

    1. Re:Bittorrent and Firefox by revelude · · Score: 1

      the simple action of this popping up on slashdot will probably spark some fellows to make a decent extension within the close of the week...

    2. Re:Bittorrent and Firefox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RTFA. This isn't about Firefox. Why do Firefox users always have to inject Firefox questions & answers where they're not wanted?

      Why do FF users have so much time for commenting anyway? They've got a super cool browser and all those extensions to play with.

      http://www.slyerfox.com/fans.aspx
      "How do you spot a Firefox fan? An answer appears to a question nobody asked."

    3. Re:Bittorrent and Firefox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    4. Re:Bittorrent and Firefox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody asked how to spot a Firefox fan, yet you answered...

    5. Re:Bittorrent and Firefox by arose · · Score: 1

      Myth: Internet Explorer 6.x has much lower minimum System Requirements than Firefox 1.x.
      Reality: Firefox gives describes recomended hardware, Microsoft gives the bare minimum it will run on.

      Myth: Opera (now 100% free) is the fastest Graphical Web Browser in Windows.
      Reality: Dillo or Links 2 would probably be faster if someone cared to compile them on Windows.

      Myth: Internet Explorer 6.x is clearly faster than Firefox 1.x overall and is significantly faster from a cold start.
      Reality: The rendering speed diferences are insignificant and parts of IE are preloaded on startup, so it's not a cold start.

      Myth: The sources speak for themselves and the facts are irrefutable.
      Reality: The site only lists supporting sources and ignores anything else. The "myths" best debunked aren't actualy widely believed. Just because you bold the word 'fact' every time you write it does not make it any more believable.

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    6. Re:Bittorrent and Firefox by BuR4N · · Score: 1

      Because the Opera guys is professionals and the guys developing the Firfox extension is not ?

      --
      http://www.intellipool.se/ - Intellipool Network Monitor
    7. Re:Bittorrent and Firefox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Question: why has Opera managed to incorporate Bittorrent support into their browser, yet the only torrent plugins for Firefox are in a horrendous state of pre-development?

      Because there are perfectly good BitTorrent clients available? And the people who are experienced at developing BitTorrent clients are still working on stand-alone BitTorrent clients?

      While it's not exactly a hassle to install a BitTorrent client, I actually think the integration is a giant miss-step. The separation of functionality is often desired. Opera now has a chance of being banned on corporate networks as it introduces a potentially bandwidth-choking Peer-To-Peer protocol whereever it's installed. Ask your friendly IT guy about installing a P2P application (that's famed for (1) sucking bandwidth, and (2) aiding copyright infringement) on your corporate internet connection.

    8. Re:Bittorrent and Firefox by EnglishTim · · Score: 1

      Myth: Opera (now 100% free) is the fastest Graphical Web Browser in Windows.
      Reality: Dillo or Links 2 would probably be faster if someone cared to compile them on Windows.


      Well, you sure debunked that myth.

    9. Re:Bittorrent and Firefox by Maian · · Score: 1, Informative

      I'd mod this flamebait if I already didn't post a reply elsewhere on this thread. Here's a very thorough reply from a Firefox dev/contributor: http://robert.accettura.com/archives/2005/12/19/fi refox-myths/

    10. Re:Bittorrent and Firefox by arose · · Score: 1

      Just an eyeball test, but at least with real pages, not some artificial testing. My eyes tell me that Opera is a bit faster then Firefox and both Dillo and Links 2 in graphical mode render pages faster then I can follow. Anyway, unlike the page I'm not saying that I have teh factz.

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    11. Re:Bittorrent and Firefox by cyberdemo · · Score: 0, Troll

      If you won't get off your own ass and actually help, please shut up. Firefox is free software, and free software is primarily driven by the needs of those who write it. If you think the state of things in that area is poor and feel that that is not changing any time soon, then go hack on it yourself.

      --
      I have no sig at all.
    12. Re:Bittorrent and Firefox by citizenc · · Score: 1

      Because Firefox is the largest competitor to Opera (aside from Internet Explorer). It's completely reasonable, when comparing two products which are in direct competition with each other, to ask why a major feature that is present in one is not present in the other.

      It's called "critical thinking". :P

    13. Re:Bittorrent and Firefox by Idarubicin · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Question: why has Opera managed to incorporate Bittorrent support into their browser, yet the only torrent plugins for Firefox are in a horrendous state of pre-development? WTF is going on here?

      Is it possible that someone at Opera--a company with money, resources, time, and managerial direction--simply stated, "we'd like to have Bittorrent support in our next release. I don't care of getting it to work properly is boring and not nearly as sexy as designing clever widgets, or that there already exist external Bittorrent clients that 133t uberhaxors like you can use. We're paying you guys to implement the features that our clients asked for. Get this done on time, and we'll give everyone a bonus."

      Sometimes good things can come out of the cathedral...just sayin', is all.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    14. Re:Bittorrent and Firefox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Parent poster makes a strong point; as usual, the slashdot hive mentality deems it a troll for doing so.

  20. RSS viewing too tedious by chowsapal · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The Opera preview is very nice, and they've done very nice work packaging it up. You can download it just about any way you'd want it.. deb's, rpm's, etc. I like the preview of the tab when you hold your pointer over it. I like the built-in mouse gestures. They've implemented Ctrl-Enter to complete www.***.com's (though Ctrl-Shift-Enter and Shift-Enter don't do .org or .net), Ctrl-T now makes a new tab just like Ctrl-N. My only complaints at this point are the fonts/default interface and the format for reading RSS. I love Firefox's drop-down live bookmarks. I don't want to switch to a mail-reader type page to check headlines, and I've never been into the sidebar. I've heard complaints about Firefox's implementation of RSS, but I think it's spot on. Firefox with extensions does everything I want. Opera comes sooo close to having all the features I want even without extensions, but the default UI feels congested and I can't filter my news the way I want to. If I wanted to read news in a mail reader I'd subscribe to email lists. Here's to hoping the final version fixes some of this.

    1. Re:RSS viewing too tedious by piper-noiter · · Score: 1

      I agree with you about the the RSS feeds. Opera's format doesn't impress me, I'm quite happy using Thunderbird for email, I don't need Opera's client.

      No there is no built in support for .org and .net, but it took me less than three minutes to find the relevant Ctrl-Enter keyboard shortcut which gave me all the info I needed to apply it to a .org or .net shortcut.

      Tools>Preference>Advanced>Shortcuts>Edit Keyboard Setup>Advanced>Address Drop Down Widget>Enter ctrl

      Your issues with congestion and fonts and interface are all easily rectified. Taking no more time to change than downloading and setting up several extensions.

      --
      Shick's Law: There is no problem a good miracle can't solve.
    2. Re:RSS viewing too tedious by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      It took you 3 minutes to find an option buried 6 levels deep in a non-obvious place (especially when two of the options were 'Advanced')? Wow you must look fast.

    3. Re:RSS viewing too tedious by DiarmuidBourke · · Score: 0

      "The Opera preview is very nice, and they've done very nice work packaging it up. You can download it just about any way you'd want it.. deb's, rpm's, etc."
      - Yup they do package it up nicely. They even have torrents of it.

      "I like the preview of the tab when you hold your pointer over it."
      -Yup, very handy for when you want to check whats in a burried tab.

      "I like the built-in mouse gestures."
      - Good if your using a desktop all the time.

      "They've implemented Ctrl-Enter to complete www.***.com's (though Ctrl-Shift-Enter and Shift-Enter don't do .org or .net),"
      - Yeah, but I'm not a fan of that really, .org, etc can be setup in the shortcuts preferences.

      "Ctrl-T now makes a new tab just like Ctrl-N."
      - Yeah, didn't like this change cause I was used to ctrl+n but, it's easily changed.

      "My only complaints at this point are the fonts/default interface and the format for reading RSS."
      - Fonts? I have the same woes with IE and FF.

      "I love Firefox's drop-down live bookmarks. I don't want to switch to a mail-reader type page to check headlines, and I've never been into the sidebar. I've heard complaints about Firefox's implementation of RSS, but I think it's spot on."
      -Yeah, the mail reader could be nicer looking. It's really meant for power users who will take the time to learn shortcuts.

      "Firefox with extensions does everything I want. Opera comes sooo close to having all the features I want even without extensions, but the default UI feels congested and I can't filter my news the way I want to. If I wanted to read news in a mail reader I'd subscribe to email lists."
      - It is very feature filled. Opera stated they don't want user submitted extensions. It's allready very customizable from the .ini files. They cleaned up the UI loads in 8 and I find it very nice and clean.

      "Here's to hoping the final version fixes some of this."
      - Yeah, write them a letter asking if they will.

    4. Re:RSS viewing too tedious by GrievousMistake · · Score: 1

      Oh, but it does impress me... I agree that the Firefox way is more convenient for newssites and other rapidly changing throwaway feeds, but i prefer Opera for program specific news feeds, and for slashdot. I can only imagine how the /. dupe count would look if the editors utilized this zero-effort way to, say, see all newsitems from the last month with the word 'laser' in the short summary. (Ok, there probably would be no difference.)

      I agree that FF-style RSS-bookmarks would be nice, but last time I checked, FF didn't even have the option to archive RSS-feeds.

      --
      In a fair world, refrigerators would make electricity.
    5. Re:RSS viewing too tedious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe I just know where Opera keeps the shortcut edit page and can use the search bar at the top of the keyboard shortcuts. I typed in "Enter ctrl" and the relevant item popped right up.

  21. Using it right now by nife00 · · Score: 1

    I'm using it right now and its great. The interface is clean though its a little too windows looking though thats obviously to target the larget group of os users. Now I need to find out how to get addblock or something like it to work. I'm so used to not seeing many that I can't live without it.

    1. Re:Using it right now by wheany · · Score: 1

      Right-click on the page, select "Block content..."

    2. Re:Using it right now by nife00 · · Score: 1

      Not nearly as powerful as the adblock plus + filterset.g updater. I tried the cpp addblock for opera and it was horrible to setup and din't even compare in features. The blockcontent will have to work for me right now I guess

    3. Re:Using it right now by niXcamiC · · Score: 1

      Funny, I have the same problem with ads whenever I fire up firefox :)

      --
      Chances are any disscution on Slashdot will degrade into a flamewar about ID/Christianity within 14 posts.
  22. Bittorrent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Not sure if adding bittorrent functionality is a good idea unless it doesn't use up RAM when not being used.

    I initially switched to Opera 8.5 from Firefox because of better security and speed. Now I use Opera primarily because I love usability features like the URL trashcan and dropdown panel that appears when clicking URL bar. But at some point, enough is enough, and adding new features can make a product worse, not better.

    1. Re:Bittorrent by hkmwbz · · Score: 1
      "Not sure if adding bittorrent functionality is a good idea unless it doesn't use up RAM when not being used."
      Bingo. It doesn't.
      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
  23. Hello World! - Acid 2 Test by ayden · · Score: 2

    I just tried it and the results look very good next to the reference image.

    http://www.webstandards.org/act/acid2/test.html

    --
    "I'm The Bounty Bear. I will find him anywhere. I'm searching."
    1. Re:Hello World! - Acid 2 Test by Regnard · · Score: 1

      Yes! A Windows-based that finally passes acid2

      --
      Need a color? Try 100 random colors
  24. typical /. story by roror · · Score: 1

    This is so freaking misleading. This is a technology preview guys, not even beta. Those who has tried TP1 of opera 9 would know how horribly unstable it was. In another TP there will be more feature but it'll still be unstable.

    Saying Opera 9 is now available is like taking us geeks to cloud number 9 and slamming back on ground.

    1. Re:typical /. story by piper-noiter · · Score: 1

      Preview one had some Processor leaks, but was fairly stable.

      The only real error I've noticed so far in Preview 2 is the animated gif speed error. Oh no my gifs are too fast! Not exactly a top priority problem.

      Preview two is currently using 0-3% of my CPU but a whopping 62M of my 512 of memory. However, that amount might have something to do with the fact that I have 15 tabs open at the moment. ;)

      --
      Shick's Law: There is no problem a good miracle can't solve.
    2. Re:typical /. story by bunratty · · Score: 1

      Actually, in Opera 9 Preview 2 GIFs still go too slow. Opera slows fast GIFs down just like IE does. Firefox plays fast GIFs at the specified speed, according to the GIF specification.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    3. Re:typical /. story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      62MB for 15 tabs?!

      I'm running Opera 9 TP1 with 76 tabs and it's using 115MB of RAM!

      115/76 = 1.5MB per tab
      62/15 = 4.1MB per tab

      ND

    4. Re:typical /. story by whitehatlurker · · Score: 1

      Oh come on, F12-E fixes that. (This is the sequence to disable - or I guess enable - gif animation.)

      --
      .. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
    5. Re:typical /. story by piper-noiter · · Score: 1

      It's not slowing them down. Opera has a bug with animated gifs, some people see slow gifs some people see super fast gifs.

      --
      Shick's Law: There is no problem a good miracle can't solve.
  25. Bye Firefox ... its been fun by arrrrg · · Score: 4, Informative

    I tried this out today, and I'm sold. After seeing stats on how Opera is significantly faster than Firefox in almost every category, I finally decided to check it out. While I miss one or two extensions (Bugmenot and Forecast Firefox), I can do without these. Other than that, the built-in mouse gestures, keyboard + location bar shortcuts, ad block, torrents, better download manager, fast forward (hit the button or press ctrl-x and automatically go to the next page of google search results, next part of any article, ...), and so on means that out of the box it is a firefox killer, and much faster to boot.

    1. Re:Bye Firefox ... its been fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you can have a panel with a weather forecast in Opera. About the bugmenot, here it is :)
      http://userjs.org/scripts/general/enhancements/bug -me-not

  26. Funny! by Tezkah · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    I submitted this story (with download links in it) and more information about the widgets, but it got rejected (Monday February 06, @11:46PM, and again Tuesday February 07, @01:34PM). I wonder why this one got accepted, I was beginning to think that because it didn't mention Firefox or Google it was never going to get published. PR1 of Opera 9.0 was rejected in a similar fashion when that was released.

    Here was the text, with bonus download links!

    Opera Software has released the second preview edition of their next generation browser, codenamed Merlin. Some of the highlights include Widgets (including ones that let you read the latest Slashdot stories, or the lastest Bash.org quotes, calculator, etc), integrated Bittorrent, thumbnail preview for tabs, and the ability to "Block Content", which lets you remove items from a website. Download for Windows, Mac, and Unix.
  27. SVG Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It supports a supristing amount of SVG tests.
    Over 90% of the ones on this page work well.
    http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Test/

  28. opera kicks firefox's ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I have been usuing firefox for a while but i just got fed up. Ever since i switched to my new athlon64 system, firefox on linux has been dead slow. Opening up tabs takes forever, it hogs more memory than kde pracitcally. So, i switched to opera and i am loving it. It is wicked fast, and has some very slick features. I don't know if i will ever go back to firefox.

  29. Other useful links by Lawmune · · Score: 2, Informative

    While we're on the topic of bonus links, here are some other useful resources for people who just downloaded Opera 9.0tp2:

    Widgets user guide

    Search engine customization tutorial

    Content blocking tutorial

    Setup info for tab thumbnails

    (Regarding that last one, I am still convinced that tab thumbnails are kind of silly, and that Opera's tiling function is already much more useful. See here: The Problem with Tab Thumbnails)

  30. back/forward by newr00tic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can't even imagine how Firefox users can stand the inferior back/forward navigation buttons, and how much delay they present.

    With Opera, (pre 9.x, even,) you just click back, and the previous page jumps right up; fully rendered and ready. --With Firefox, you have to wait, and get to listen to the processor throttling up, as if this was Java 1.2 on Win95..

    Firef*cks be gone..

    --
    A horse can't be sick, you know, even if he wants to.
    1. Re:back/forward by jeff_schiller · · Score: 1

      Hm, not with Firefox 1.5 - the "FastBack" feature was added and works great

    2. Re:back/forward by MarkChovain · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      ...as if this was Java 1.2 on Win95..

      Opera 9 will be the smallest possible difference from an attachment he had no actual evidence if it wasn't needed, as Win9x was the last part that takes over ants and controls their nervous systems so that we can to get this out to be quite easy to express it in their current platforms. There isn't much worse than the X1800

    3. Re:back/forward by scosol · · Score: 1

      > With Opera, (pre 9.x, even,) you just click back

      Hell that's the slow way son... right-click+hold -> left-click
      Do the reverse for "forward"-

      Between that and alt/option+tab to go back and forth between tabs, I can navigate Opera faster than it can render!
      (read: "damn fast")

      Paid Opera user since 7.0 (6.x, while a good alternative for unsupported OSes like FreeBSD, was a half-effort- 7.x changed everything)

      --
      I browse at +5 Flamebait- moderation for all or moderation for none.
  31. Got my hopes up. by The+Ilia · · Score: 0

    I find the title of this story to be misleading. I got my hopes up, thinking that perhaps an official release of Opera 9 had occurred. Obviously this was not the case. Title should be "Opera 9 Technical Preview with Widgets and BitTorrent Now Available".

    --
    All of the brightest boys, To play with the biggest toys - More than they bargained for...
  32. *sigh* by buddyglass · · Score: 1

    I really wish the Opera (and Firefox) camps would focus less on adding new features and more on stability, security, performance and standards compliance. Widgets? In-line spell check? Don't know about you, but I'd certainly prefer a smaller, faster, more secure browser that crashes less often in place of the wonders of in-line spell checking.

    1. Re:*sigh* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      besides, things like inline spell-checking should be handled by the OS IMO. Isn't that the kind of stuff we have fancy OS's and cool API's for?

    2. Re:*sigh* by John+Nowak · · Score: 1

      It works for OS X! To be honest, I would be very frustrated without in-line spell checking in every app that all made use of the same dictionary. This is one of my problems with using email clients like mutt... I have to worry about an additional set of tools and dictionaries just to spell check my email.

    3. Re:*sigh* by Maian · · Score: 1
      You sound like a guy who knows little about large-scale software development. When you have a lot of developers on a project, you can't direct them all to find and fix bugs. This is especially true for open-source projects - you can't expect all contributors to want to just hunt bugs down. Not only do the developers specialize in different modules (making it inefficient to make them work on something unrelated to their module), there's a limit to how many devs can work on the same problem.

      For example, lots of people complain that Firefox uses too much memory. Of course they're working on the problem (well some of it is "intended behavior"). Do you think throwing more devs at the problem will get the problem fixed any faster?

    4. Re:*sigh* by buddyglass · · Score: 1

      Actually I know a fair bit about large software projects. Typically they too suffer from the "features over stability and performance" problem, since they're customer driven. One thing I know about corporate software projets is that, for the most part, developers do what their technical lead tells them to do. That's the essential difference with Firefox, given that it's developed by volunteers who can't be "told" what to work on.

      In my original post I wasn't suggesting that the Firefox "management" force developers to spend more time on bug fixes and performance enhancement. Clearly that's not possible since they're all volunteers. What I was trying to communicate is my wish that the developers themselves would shift their priorities more in line with what I described.

    5. Re:*sigh* by jeff_schiller · · Score: 1

      Agreed - stability and fixes are very important. However, you can't market "bug fixes". You can market new capabilities, standards compliance, improved speed, improved security, etc. Opera is a product that a company is trying to "sell" (not in the monetary sense, in the marketing sense). New features are also (for the most part) what sucks in new users.

      There has to be a fair mix of new feature development and bug fixes. I guess you are of the opinion that Opera needs to adjust their mix. Personally I think they're doing just great but I've only been using Opera since version 8 when they started working on SVG - a NEW feature ;)

      Btw, I think Opera's size is incredible - a 5 MB download for a complete internet suite. Firefox is something like 6 MB with no extensions. SeaMonkey is something like 13 MB and it doesn't include web feed aggregation yet (as far as I know).

    6. Re:*sigh* by jeff_schiller · · Score: 1

      Sorry - I just checked out of curiosity - Opera 9 TP2 download is 4 MB, not 5 MB!

  33. SVG Capabilities Improved by jeff_schiller · · Score: 3, Informative

    I am loving the SVG implementation in the Opera 9 Previews, I update information on my blog. TP2 includes several fixes to the SVG implementation over TP1 and TP1 was a HUGE leap from Opera 8.x. Opera now covers more SVG functionality than Firefox 1.5 does, and is faster on my PC.

    Opera is the new native SVG implementation to beat.

  34. Why I love Opera by linuxguy · · Score: 2, Informative

    1. It is fast. Very fast. Firefox is dog slow in comparison. At least on my Linux system.
    2. It is lean, very lean. 4.7MB and tonnes of features. How do these people do it?
    3. It is easy on memory. Firefox has bad memory leak problems. Earlier today Firefox was taking up 300MB+ on my system. I close all tabs and it did not free any memory. Enough is enough. This is the primary reason I am ditching Firefox.
    4. The keyboard shortcuts are sane and there are lots of them.
    5. It is more standards compliant than Firefox.
    6. It now works with maps.google.com.
    7. Did I already mention that it was fast?

    1. Re:Why I love Opera by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      About 2)

      Have you ever seen what a bloat xml is? ;)
      First it has a very damn bad information density. Normally you can compress it by 90%.
      This is because of the descriptive tags and end tags. Fine for humans, but a night mare for computers.
      Additionally parsing xml is pretty slow compared to optimized binary file formats.

      There is a very good way to get both: Use EBML. It's like XML but with binary tags. every tag is a short numeric value. (the only ting that's probably slow here is the variable-length encoding of tag-ids. but this could be left out.)
      Then you could have a 2-column list association ids to human-readable names and there you go...

      I already wrote a fixed-with ebml-parser and -encoder in javascript (in form of a stream) and php for fast communication instead of XML-requests.
      It works great, and i even added a transparent Rijndael-encription-stream in between so it is encrypted when it's needed.
      It's pretty fast too. It even serialies and deserializes php- and javascript-objects, arrays, or simple values.
      So i don't have to use the stupid DOM but i have a cute object to work with.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    2. Re:Why I love Opera by deletedaccount · · Score: 1

      >> 7. Did I already mention that it was fast? From what I've seen, Firefox is faster under gnome, and Opera is faster under KDE. That conclusion however is from a scientific survey of two (2) users/systems.

    3. Re:Why I love Opera by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "7. Did I already mention that it was fast?" - by linuxguy (98493) on Wednesday February 08, @02:18AM

      Yes!

      Here is some 'fuel-for-your-fire' man, so your statements are not just anecdotal & a matter of your OWN opinion (which I most readily 110% agree with as well) - The URL below is the MOST even-handed browser speed comparisons page I have ever run across online, that covers IE/Mozilla variants/Opera & across multiple OS platforms as well, that 'seconds your motion(s)':

      http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

      * Enjoy!

      APK

      P.S.=> Opera just wins the most browser speed tests across the boards on various tests there, & overall, on the most OS platforms as well... apk

    4. Re:Why I love Opera by dreemernj · · Score: 1

      ">> 7. Did I already mention that it was fast? From what I've seen, Firefox is faster under gnome, and Opera is faster under KDE. That conclusion however is from a scientific survey of two (2) users/systems."

      Interesting, I actually found the opposite but I was running some very old comps. Under gnome on my old P3 700s Opera was scorching past FF but under KDE I didn't see much of a difference. Ehh, its probably something with configuration or system specs. I tend to break opera on older systems anyway because I pump up the ram cache quite a bit.

      --
      1 (short ton / firkin) = 89.1432354 slugs / keg
    5. Re:Why I love Opera by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

      It seems cool =)

      Sounds like the serialization techniques I use in C++.

      Yes, XML is just a buzzword, with not much technical merits in it.

      --
      We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
    6. Re:Why I love Opera by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course they load faster. They don't run faster, though. If you're using KDE, all the Qt libraries are up and running, and Opera doesn't cause them to be loaded. If you're using GNOME, all the GNOME libraries are up and running, and Firefox doesn't cause them to be loaded.

      Since Opera uses the Qt libraries, it'll start faster under KDE. Since Firefox uses (some very small part of) the GNOME libraries, it'll start faster under GNOME. Once everything is up and runninng, though, Opera should run far faster than Firefox is capable of.

  35. lynx by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe you should use lynx then. Or if you don't want plugins for whatever reason just install firefox.

    1. Re:lynx by buddyglass · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the sarcasm. Despite my love for small, efficient applications, graphical browsing is not something I'm willing to give up.

    2. Re:lynx by jeff_schiller · · Score: 1

      And that's kind of the point sometimes. When they first introduced graphics in HTML browsers, I think there were probably people like you who said: Fix bugs, don't introduce new features that we don't need! Sometimes you don't know what things will really catch on, sometimes you have to introduce new features (like BitTorrent, widgets, SVG, canvas, web feeds) to push the web forward.

      No offense, I'm just saying you might need to broaden your perspective.

  36. Cookie control? by nfarrell · · Score: 2, Interesting

    After quickly looking through v9 I can't see how you can set the default lifetime for cookies to the current session. Sure, there's a nice interface for viewing current cookies, but for me this is a showstopper. Too many sites use cookies to operate, and I'm happy to have them track me for a few minutes, but not between sessions.

    Still, competition is good, and this is certainly good competition.

    1. Re:Cookie control? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did not yet try Opera 9, but in 8.51 it's
      Tools - Preferences - Advanced - Cookies - 'Delete new cookies when exiting Opera'
      I hope that is what you mean.

    2. Re:Cookie control? by wheany · · Score: 1

      In Opera 9 TP 2, it's:

      Tools - Preferences - Advanced - Sites - Default settings - Cookies - Delete cookies on exit.

    3. Re:Cookie control? by ProfFalcon · · Score: 1

      You are this concerned about privacy that you're concerned about cookie lifetime but you're not using Privoxy?

      Check out Privoxy to manage these settings centrally regardless of browser. It does much more as well.

      --
      Simply stating [Citation Needed] does not automatically make you insightful or brilliant.
  37. MathML? by Quadraginta · · Score: 1

    Sigh. If only Opera would render MathML native, I'd use it. What's a mathematically-inclined geek who wants both pretty math (MathML) and graphs and stuff (SVG) to do?

    1. Re:MathML? by jeff_schiller · · Score: 1

      Use Firefox 1.5 for now...

  38. The bigger picture behind widgets by Lawmune · · Score: 1

    There is an increasing demand for cell phone applications, and Opera (being multi-platform) seems well-positioned to take advantage of that. Widgets, therefore, appear to be part of Opera's cross-platform strategy.

    Selected quotes from a recent eWeek article ( http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1920351,00.as p ):

    "Opera first began encouraging people to build widgets within its software late last year with the introduction of its Opera Mobile Platform, a system meant for developers creating wireless applications to run in the company's mobile device browser."

    "Ford said that Opera is hoping to make the widgets capable of working across many different types of devices, from PCs to mobiles and even consumer electronics."

    "Opera Mobile Platform, for instance, allows developers to build widgets that can work on wireless devices running completely different operating systems, which could help push development across other types of machines, Ford said."

    (Thomas Ford is an Opera spokesman)

  39. Additional links by zxSpectrum · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here are some additional links with more information and screenshots, so you won't have to wade through all of the Opera forums to find them:

    1. Re:Additional links by puke76 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Lets not forget the Kiosk feature , giving you command line switches to lock down the browser for an internet cafe or kiosk. Firefox is extremely difficult to lock down in this way, and requests for similar features have been turned down by the developers.

    2. Re:Additional links by Petrushka · · Score: 1

      Thanks for that, I was having difficulty finding more info about the content blocker. This -- the equivalent of AdBlock in Firefox -- was the only real reason I was sticking with Firefox. It's true Opera isn't as tweakable as FF, but it's so much faster, lighter, and smoother, that it more than makes up for that. The extra features that I don't need are just icing on the cake. If they do manage to get the content blocker sorted out properly (see the comments on the page linked to by the parent) Opera will be my default browser once 9.0 is out of the preview phase.

  40. Was released yesterday. by Elitist_Phoenix · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This was released yesterday, you could have gotten it from snapshot.opera.com This is also when I submitted the story using the new browser wth links to the change log. Though it seems you only get stories posted by Scuttlemonkey if you have a paypal account.

    2006-02-07 13:35:26 New Opera Preview Out (Index,Software) (rejected)

    --
    "I'm going to f***ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to f***ing kill Google"
    1. Re:Was released yesterday. by jeff_schiller · · Score: 1
      This was released yesterday
      As was this slashdot article :P
  41. My biggest complaint with Opera - page zooming... by QRDeNameland · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I downloaded the stable Opera 8.5 a few days ago, and I have to say (as a current Firefox on Windows user) that Opera has an awful lot going for it. It's fast and seems a lot less bloated and quirky than Firefox, plus I've been finding a few features I really like.

    But the one issue that kind of blows it for me is the page zooming. I happen to be one of the many people who due to eyesight issues often increase the browser's text size. One thing I love about Firefox over IE is that it has an easy hot key to up the text size (Ctrl-+). In Opera, there only seems to "Zoom", which although it has a greater amount of control, has the unfortunate behavior of stretching the graphics in proprotion to the text (FF and IE leave the graphics at their regular size no matter what the text size is). While I can appreciate that idea in theory, in practice most web graphics are simply not designed to scale that way, and the result is that if you want to browse with enlarged text (which I often do), you have to suffer with ugly, pixelated, and often overlapping images. Not to mention that the text itself renders oddly in many zoom levels. And there doesn't seem to be any option to change it.

    It's bad enough that I think the vast majority of people who use enlarged text would reject Opera because of it. And that's a shame because Opera has so much else going for it.

    --
    Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
  42. FlashBlock by ne0n · · Score: 1

    When I find a Flashblock extension for Opera I'll give 'er another shot. Until then, it's basically useless. Honestly, how did we survive before Flashblock?? And the Gmail Manager, of course :)

    --
    $ :(){ :|:& };:
    1. Re:FlashBlock by hkmwbz · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can find "Flashblock" for Opera too.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    2. Re:FlashBlock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Opera 9 has a built in content blocker.

    3. Re:FlashBlock by ZzzzSleep · · Score: 2, Informative
      Quoth ne0n
      When I find a Flashblock extension for Opera I'll give 'er another shot. Until then, it's basically useless.
      I'm not familiar with the Flashblock extension, but is this what you want?
      Improved content blocker Cosmetic surgery for Web pages. Just right click on a page and select block content. Any content not greyed out can be blocked with a click. Select done and see the page the way you want.

      From http://labs.opera.com/news/2006/02/07/2/
    4. Re:FlashBlock by JLennox · · Score: 1

      http://userjs.org/scripts/general/enhancements/hid e-objects

      From the page:
      "Hides all objects, embeds, applets, and iframes (you can add to this list, or remove from it). Once the page has loaded, you can double click to display them again. The script can optionally display a notification when it blocks something. By default, this notification is shown for 5 seconds.

      Hidden objects are optionally replaced with a placeholder that you can click to show each individual object. This is also keyboard accessible - use Shift+Left/Right/Up/Down to select the placeholder, and press Enter/Return to unhide the object."

      I've been using that for a while now. I'm really in love with it.

      There whole page is filled with lots of neat userjs for Opera: http://userjs.org/

    5. Re:FlashBlock by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > I'm not familiar with the Flashblock extension

      What it does is, when you visit a page that includes Flash content, instead of executing the Flash content, it displays a gaudy "blocked" logo. The Flash doesn't get executed unless you inadvertently click the logo. This is in every way inferior to just not installing Flash in the first place, unless you for some bizarre reason actually *want* to execute the Flash content in some instances. I personally can't imagine ever wanting to do that, but apparently some people occasionally do, so they prefer FlashBlock over not having Flash installed.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    6. Re:FlashBlock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only reason for Flash is Strong Bad

    7. Re:FlashBlock by CyricZ · · Score: 1

      The best way to block Flash is to not install the Flash plug-in in the first place.

      --
      Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
  43. not for linux-amd64 by rjb · · Score: 1

    Alas, no linux-amd64 version seems to be available for now, so I won't be trying it out anytime soon.

    1. Re:not for linux-amd64 by rjb · · Score: 1

      What's more, they don't seem to provide the stable version for amd64 either. While they do have builds for dead platforms, such as OS/2 and Be-OS... go figure.

    2. Re:not for linux-amd64 by zoloto · · Score: 1

      For those still in the lower 1% of operating systems (for once not Apple!) please hold. Your call^H^H^H^H service is very important to us a Verizon^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Opera representative will be with you shortly..

      *cue elevator music*

  44. Ctrl + Enter finally works! by simscitizen · · Score: 1

    FINALLY, they fixed this old problem with Opera. ctrl+enter now completes a web address with www and com, something ie and firefox have had for years.

    1. Re:Ctrl + Enter finally works! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't need to ctrl+enter, just type in google and hit enter!

    2. Re:Ctrl + Enter finally works! by MickoZ · · Score: 1

      I don't remember the behavior of opera about it... but I know some browser use to just try www + name + .com if the address is unreachable. For example if you type example and it doesn't find anything (no local computer mapped to example with a webserver) then it will try to reach www.example.com

      Personally I am not used to CTR+Enter and don't use it... but once we get used to something and gain some time with it, I can see it feel important for us...

      An example of feature I was probably wrongly using was that in IE I was using ctrl+tab-key to go to the adresse bar fast... now I am used to use alt+d (which work also in IE, in Windows Explorer, etc.) -- I was just "used" to ctrl+tab to achieve this in IE. Now I barely use that way to do even thought before I adopted it... it is just a small proof that we can train ourself to be efficient (and maybe more) at something we are not used to. Just think at when you started typing and how it looked magical that some people could type without look at the keyboard ;-) -- I bet you can change the keyboard layout entirely and we can get productive again... however now it has become natural to me... I don't even think when I type... it is like talking... it scare me now that I type and think of it.

      Also -- I re-retried Opera recently and I was trying to do ctr+t for new tabs... because I am used to Firefox way (even thought it is not 100% my first browser, I use it a lot now). I have tried Opera since 2.x or 3.x days (if not before)... and it always has been quite cool, with interesting feature, mega fast, etc. It just wasn't mainstream.

    3. Re:Ctrl + Enter finally works! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why press Ctrl + Enter? Just wack enter and it searches for the www.whatever.com address anyway.

  45. Tab movement by Snaller · · Score: 1

    I wonder if they have added the relativly simple config option, that when you close tab N, it moves focus to tab N-1 - apparently there have been some sort of political movenment against adding this open - the mind boggles.

    --
    If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    1. Re:Tab movement by baadger · · Score: 1

      I just clued in someone else with the same urge, see my post -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=176645&cid=146 68362

    2. Re:Tab movement by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

      I see what you mean.

      Would you please post it to:
      http://my.opera.com/community/forums/forum.dml?id= 24

      But don't mention the political movement.

      --
      We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
    3. Re:Tab movement by Snaller · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't say clued in, as much as No it can't - but perhaps you can make do with this work around.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    4. Re:Tab movement by baadger · · Score: 1

      So when it's a Firefox extension it's cool beans l33t, but when it's a simple custom toolbar button barely 'written' using native ini options then it's a 'work around'?

      This is native opera functionality, without a GUI.

    5. Re:Tab movement by jp10558 · · Score: 1

      There's always been this double standard on the internet where it's cool to have an extension or BHO, but god forbid if you have to add a bookmarklet, edit an ini file, or run a separate program.

      I've never really understood it, to me, if I'd have to download something else in FF, and I can do the same by downloading something else of a slightly different class and stay with Opera or IE which I've already got configured... I don't see the point of switching. That's just me though.

      --
      Opera, Proxomitron-Grypen,GPG 0x0A1C6EE3
    6. Re:Tab movement by Snaller · · Score: 1

      Strawman argumentation from your side, you invent something i haven't said and then attack me for it. Bad morals.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
  46. Tips & Tricks after a days use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Been using this now and tried to find all the hidden goodies, and here's my few tips. Note that all shortcuts mentioned are only tested on Windows:

    • Right-click in a search field and select "Create search" to define a new search with a shortcut. The shortcut can now be used at the address bar just like "g define:slashdotted" can.
    • You can press "F2" and type "slashdot" and you will go to http://slashdot.org/
    • CTRL-B is a keyboard shortuct for Paste & go
    • F12 gives you a Quick Preferences menu
    • Tools-> Preferences-> Advanced-> Shortcuts-> Mouse setup-> Edit-> Application will give you the mouse gestures. I changed "GestureUp" to this: "Enter fullscreen & view address bar, 2 | leave fullscreen & Go" , changed "GestureDown, GestureUp" to "Wand" and added "GestureLeft, GestureRigth" to be "Stop"
    • On any page, hit "." (dot) to get a non-intrusive search on the page
    • Right-click on the page and try the "Block Content.." function, it's very nicely implemented
    • You can create your own buttons
    • Create your own Widgets using HTML, CSS, JavaScript, SVG and AJAX, and they _should_ work on all platforms the TP2 is available on.
    • I like Tools-> Preferences-> General-> '[ ]Show close button on each tab' to make the interface less cluttered, and rather use my middle-button to close tabs.

    Hm.. well that's what I've found so far :)
  47. Absolute rubbish... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    What version of Opera did you last use? Opera 8 does exactly what you're talking about too, as did Opera 6 and 7, if I remember correctly.

    More FUD and false claims from yet another Slashdotter who hasn't used a version of Opera for years but talks like they're some sort of expert.

    The mind does indeed boggle... at the foolishness of this and many of the other anti-Opera statements that so often crop up in stories on Slashdot.

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
  48. Re:My biggest complaint with Opera - page zooming. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't you just increase the minimum font size?
    [Tools - Preferences - Advanced - Fonts - 'Minimum font size (pixels)']

  49. The content blocker by Jugalator · · Score: 1

    Something that's not mentioned is the new UI for the "content blocker". Click somewhere on a page and select "Content blocker..." from the context menu, then all HTML elements on the page is faded besides those that are blockable and you can click on to block/unblock (it's a toggle). If you want more flexibility, you can, while in that "blocker" mode, click on the "Details" button on the toolbar to customize the wildcard matching as you wish. When you're done, just click OK and the matching elements will be blocked.

    I find it an easy to use implementation of an ad blocker, and with many users actually having liked Opera but used Firefox due to its ad blocking functionality with Adblock (among the most popular Firefox extensions there is), this should maybe make Opera more interesting again.

    Granted, it's not as feature rich as Adblock, but with an easy "click to block" implementation, basic wildcard matching (not sure of regular expressions), and Flash support, I think it's actually enough for most users. It sure is for me anyway. :-)

    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  50. Your reply proves me right by Snaller · · Score: 1

    Instead of a polite comment you are extremely rude, bordering on the hysterical, clearly they don't implement this for religious/political reasons. And next time be polite kid.

    What version of Opera did you last use? Opera 8 does exactly what you're talking about too, as did Opera 6 and 7, if I remember correctly.

    8.5 - and I tried it 5 seconds ago.

    More FUD and false claims from yet another Slashdotter who hasn't used a version of Opera for years but talks like they're some sort of expert.

    The mind does indeed boggle... at the foolishness of this and many of the other anti-Opera statements that so often crop up in stories on Slashdot.


    I fail to see why you need to lie.

    --
    If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    1. Re:Your reply proves me right by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 1

      I'm replying to your post via Opera 8.01. It does exactly what you talked about originally. Tell me again how this behaviour is missing in Opera?

      If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and sounds like a duck then it's probably a duck.

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    2. Re:Your reply proves me right by Snaller · · Score: 1

      I'm replying to your post via Opera 8.01. It does exactly what you talked about originally. Tell me again how this behaviour is missing in Opera?

      It is missing in 8.5

      In stead of behaving like a rude school kid you could explain how you, apparently get it to behave in this manner.

      It always mows to the tab on the right, not the left. And has always done so.

      If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and sounds like a duck then it's probably a duck.

      Or someone impersonating a duck, but biology is hardly relevant here.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    3. Re:Your reply proves me right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It moves to the tab that you were previously on, whether it be to the right or the left. How are you missing this? It's quite plain to see!

    4. Re:Your reply proves me right by Snaller · · Score: 1

      It moves to the tab that you were previously on, whether it be to the right or the left. How are you missing this? It's quite plain to see!

      How are you missing that I DONT WANT THAT.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    5. Re:Your reply proves me right by mazzarin · · Score: 1

      It used to be the case in Opera 8.51 that going to Tools --> Options --> Check 'Show Close Button on Each tab' to turn off the MDI interface would enable N-1 funtionality. However, this does not seem to work in Op9TP2, I suspect its buried somewhere in opera:config.

    6. Re:Your reply proves me right by Snaller · · Score: 1

      "opera:config"

      What's that? Something to enter in the url field? That gives an "Illegal address" error.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    7. Re:Your reply proves me right by mazzarin · · Score: 1

      Its a new feature in Opera9, similar to about:config in firefox. Sorry for the confusion if you aren't using Opera9.

    8. Re:Your reply proves me right by Snaller · · Score: 1

      8.5 - perhaps I'll give it a look.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
  51. bittorrent not usable.. by giorgosts · · Score: 1

    no NAT, PnP, DHT, you have to open firewall, may be you have to change ports because 6881 is blacklisted.... No thanks we don't need to spend a week to figure it out. Save link as/ open with Azureus will work just fine..

  52. Interesting Thumbnails by tektek · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not sure if this has been shown yet, but I noticed this about 5 hours after testing out Opera9: http://tektek.org/misc/opera9.png Kind of a neat little add-in, not sure how much use it will be to me though.

  53. Re:My biggest complaint with Opera - page zooming. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't you just increase the minimum font size?

  54. They've been working on it for a while. by cgenman · · Score: 1

    They had been intending on including it with v 8.5, and prior to that 8.0. They've been working on it for a while now.

    On the other hand, I'm guessing the average firefox developer has a bittorrent client already, and why download a plug-in for your browser when you can just download a separate app?

  55. XSLT support added by pramodbiligiri · · Score: 1

    A major development is the addition of XSLT support using a native XSLTProcessor object just like Mozilla. This is significant because Opera has been strongly opposing XSLT for a long time now. Web developers using XSLT for the presentation layer would find this news heartening.

    1. Re:XSLT support added by :jax: · · Score: 2, Informative
      A major development is the addition of XSLT support using a native XSLTProcessor object just like Mozilla. This is significant because Opera has been strongly opposing XSLT for a long time now. Web developers using XSLT for the presentation layer would find this news heartening.

      That isn't quite true. We have been sceptical to XSL-FO, and we still are, but have been neutral/pragmatic on XSLT. Server-side Opera.com has been using XSLT for years and I think there should be different best practices client-side and server-side and I don't think the usecase for client-side XSLT is reducing server load, but when it is used for the benefit of the user it can be a good idea.

    2. Re:XSLT support added by Nurgled · · Score: 1

      Personally, my use-case for client-side XSLT is providing a client-side preview of what my server-side XSLT-based app will do rather than round-tripping to the server to do it. The most extreme implementation of this is Xopus, which provides a real-time WYSIWYG editor for XML documents based on XML Schema and XSLT. My app is meagre in comparison, but I have missed XSLT support in Opera for years since I've been using it as my primary browser since sometime during major version 3. I'm glad to see that this support is finally arriving in my browser of choice, since now I can (in theory!) use my own webapp as it was intended!

  56. its made in C instead of C++ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least thats one of the reasons for being that small and fast.
    Some others are probably functions that are used across the whole package.
    The News reader, mail client, BT thingy and the browser probably all share moste of the functions / code..

    1. Re:its made in C instead of C++ by RPoet · · Score: 1

      This is wrong. Opera is coded in C++.

      --
      "Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
    2. Re:its made in C instead of C++ by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      C++ inline functions are more manageable than an equivalent C #define macro.

      In fact, good C++ can be faster and at the same time easier to code than plain C.

      Just don't buy the "everything should be a class" mentality of Java. And avoid templates.

      --
      We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
  57. Konqueror has bittorent too by EEPROMS · · Score: 1

    In the kde 4.0 release the kget download manager (used with konqueror) has bittorent support on the cvs dev server I noticed.

    1. Re:Konqueror has bittorent too by RPoet · · Score: 1

      There is no KDE 4.0 release.

      --
      "Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
  58. Underrrated by Tracer_Bullet82 · · Score: 1

    And yet, it will still be underrated as hell.

    The mainstream user will still use Virus & Worms Installer(tm) and the tech inclined will still be using Firefox.

    I've been using it since version 6, (yes they have adbar, so what) and I love the easy way you could finetune and change the whole browser just by looking at the .ini files and some simple tutorials.

    That being said, I find the newer version to be buggier, and I get this feeling that they're trying to "hide" the inner workings. Dumbing downs, I love it so much.

    --


    Timang tinggi tinggi
    parang sudah asah
    alang alang mandi
    biar sampai basah
    1. Re:Underrrated by hkmwbz · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "I find the newer version to be buggier"
      Well duh :) You are using a preview (alpha) version, after all.
      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
  59. Re:My biggest complaint with Opera - page zooming. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually the CTRL +- works for Opera as well. If your mouse has a scroll wheel, you may opt to hold CTRL while scrolling the wheel.

  60. Re:My biggest complaint with Opera - page zooming. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You copied that one from me, dude :)

  61. Unbelievable by ceeam · · Score: 2, Funny

    Check it out dudes - amongst widgets they include bash.org reader (by Opera!). Can you imagine this in MSIE or even FF? What's next? - out-of-the-box porn grabber? Those guys are cool, I guess... (And they know how to program effectively).

  62. chat.deviantart.com by ASUSanator · · Score: 1

    I just found out that the chat on deviantart.com has uber problems on opera. I love idling on there, it apparently has something to do with opera javascript implementation not being able to work with the java/flash plugins properly. I guess i should stop idling on the chat so much but this is still a large backstep in my full move to opera.

  63. Re:A browser without Adblock! by tommertron · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately.... still a browswer without a way of easily installing Adblock! Opera's great, but I'll never switch until I can easily implement Adblock.

    --
    Random rants about technology: http://technorants.blogspot.com
  64. Over-hyping browser competition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I think it is a extreme that people try to imagine a great browser war and always forecast a doom for one or another browser, when it is really an on-going healthy competition among various browsers.

    Opera doesn't have to be an IE/Mozilla killer. And there seems to be a sizable percentage of Mozilla zealots who can't accept that viable alteratives to their personally preferred software exist, though I don't think this is the majority by far, and feel the need to bash Opera.

    How many times have I been flamed for even mentioning Opera over the years just to have some Mozilla zealot try to preach to me about features that Opera already has. (At least now a good portion are now aware that Opera also has tabs.)

    Again, this isn't every Mozilla zealot who hates on Opera, but the ones who do are often the loudest (read: obnoxious).

  65. Re:Hmmm...maybe I won't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have been disappointed with Opera's support for DHTML and CSS. It is questionabled at best and downright useless at worst. I've got code here that pushes DHTML to its limits and it just plain doesn't run on Opera. And even worse is that it isn't easy to debug. Even IE has the script debugger which makes it *somewhat* useable... Anyways, I'm hoping that Opera soon changes this and focuses on ECMA standard script running. It'll be nice to add another browser to our supported list.

  66. No its not... by galvanash · · Score: 1
    What version of Opera did you last use? Opera 8 does exactly what you're talking about too, as did Opera 6 and 7, if I remember correctly.

    The default behavior of all Opera versions (at least up to 9, I havent tried 9 yet) is to go to the last _active_ tab upon the closing of a currently active tab... This "feature" has been heavily debated for quite a while now by different camps in the user community.

    Since it was originally an MDI app, alot of users who were accustomed to the much more powerful window management prefer more advanced tab management behavior like this. Users coming from other browsers who have never used an MDI based browser are often left confused by it. Like I said it is still debated over quite a bit so I dont know which side will win this argument

    --
    - sigs are stupid
    1. Re:No its not... by Snaller · · Score: 1

      It sad that it has to be a question of winning - more of a question of religious infighting instead of just adding this as an option so all users could enjoy the program. Instead we see even here that people are just gratuitously attacked if they wish this feature added.

      And its not a question of being confused, its a question of being annoyed at what i think is a stupid behavior.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
  67. Question: why are you suprised? by Some+Random+Username · · Score: 2, Informative

    All the features firefox has were in opera before they were in firefox. Why would this be any different?

  68. Firefox drag & drop configurable ! ? by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

    Yeah sure.

    In Opera I can press Shift-F12 and set the tab-bar anywhere I want, I mean, below the page content. I can drag & drop anything from any toolbar to any other however I want.

    Now you tell me how can I put the tab-bar in FF below the page content and just over the task bar.

    Please. I'm listening.

    --
    We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
    1. Re:Firefox drag & drop configurable ! ? by muszek · · Score: 1

      Now you tell me how can I put the tab-bar in FF below the page content and just over the task bar.

      Tabbrowser Preferences extension enables such option.

      Last week I switched to FF (kinda fell for its extensions, it also works better with Gnome) after many years of using Opera as the primary browser. There are quite a few things that piss me off, but most of them are fixable by extensions (Session Saver, Fasterfox, etc.).

      BTW... few dozens post upwards someone said he gets irritated when closing the tab brings focus to the last used tab, not the last to the right... I still can't get used to FF's way and it does piss me off :). So it's just a matter of habits, ladies.

    2. Re:Firefox drag & drop configurable ! ? by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1
      I just installed it and now all FF windows show me a very big, red lettered bar in the bottom part:
      %tabprefsDTD;
      ^
      =(
      --
      We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
  69. Yeah sure... by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

    I'm sure It has nothing to do with features. FF has that "Fighting the system" feeling that you would lose if you go to Opera.

    However, a lot of practical people like me really prefer to use the best browser ever =)

    I won't write about the nice features of Opera (I already did that in the past flamewars, just browse my posts) because FF just has that "religious fanatical user" mindset.

    For other people: use the best tool for your needs, don't mind political agendas.

    --
    We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
    1. Re:Yeah sure... by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      Actually it's got everything to do with features, and I just downloaded Opera to find it lacking. It doesn't have a bookmark toolbar, doesn't allow me to put buttons next to the "File, Edit, View" menu (to cut down on wasted space) and doesn't support Feeds like Firefox does, so I can't put a bunch of bookmarks on del.icio.us and subscribe to the feed to make it appear like a folder in my bookmarks (so I can have the same bookmarks on multiple computers). I also found it's "find in page" feature to be non-obvious as to whether or not it's found the word I'm typing (the no matches isn't as apparent as the red toolbar).

      So can these be overcome by settings or extensions? If not, then there's really no competition for which browser I use.

    2. Re:Yeah sure... by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

      The bookmark bar is just called "personal toolbar" in Opera.

      The buttons in the menu bar is just a big "uhh?" for me, as I see exactly the same space wasted in Opera as in Firefox, except for just a couple pixels in favour of FF. And I removed the bookmarks and status bars in FF.

      The feeds feature, yes I can see why you use it that way, and indeed is a great idea. Opera should have a "server based session bookmark" feature, to compete here. Maybe a user.js bookmark button is the answer for that.

      The find in page feature: you're just used to the other one, I see a non-issue there.

      --
      We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
    3. Re:Yeah sure... by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      Yeah I eventually found the personal bar, thanks. As for the menu, This is what I meant. As opposed to this. Comparing how much is showing, I will admit the difference is minimal. But it is a pain nonetheless.

      The tabs thing and not being able to reposition tabs IS annoying. But I will admit, it is more of a nuisance because I'm use to one over the other.

      Having said that, I am willing to give it a go. But I'm not seeing any compelling features to make me want to. The speed is actually quite a bit faster though, I will give it that.

    4. Re:Yeah sure... by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      I've used it a little, and came across a "customised buttons" page which helped. I was able to replicate my menu from Firefox, although I'm still unable to reposition menus so they're ordered in a way I'm not use to.

      However the feeds work exactly like a stand-alone program I use works (although unfortunately bittorrent isn't as complicated, but I rarely use it to care enough) which can be intergrated into my e-mail (something I've wanted I've wanted for a while). I would like for the simpler feeds that Firefox has as well, but can't have everything. The e-mail reader works great, can easily be configured to work mostly like Gmail, except without gmail's long load times. And it also has notes (something I've wanted for sometime now in Firefox. Every extension in FF I've tried is buggy).

      So thanks for replying, I'm enjoying it so far. Hopefully I'll stop noticing the annoyances, rather then them become annoying enough for me to switch.

    5. Re:Yeah sure... by steeviant · · Score: 1

      I won't write about the nice features of Opera (I already did that in the past flamewars, just browse my posts) because FF just has that "religious fanatical user" mindset.

      Funny I was just thinking the same thing about the Opera users here after seeing the "fastest, first at everything, most compliant" garbage that so many Opera fans are spouting.

      Opera users seem to be the ones blinded by religious fanaticism, or maybe it's just jealous rage at seeing the ineptitude of Opera's management when it comes to making the product accessible, and the public aware of what their product can do for it's users.

      You shouldn't blame Firefox for Opera's miserable uptake, Firefox is just being the browser people really want.

    6. Re:Yeah sure... by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1
      --
      We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
    7. Re:Yeah sure... by steeviant · · Score: 1

      Did you create that troll site or are you just endorsing it?

    8. Re:Yeah sure... by steeviant · · Score: 1

      I was going to leave it at the comment I made, but I really feel compelled to say a bit more about it.

      I saw that "Firefox Myths" site linked at OSnews a while ago, and while the comments about that story there are probably enough to show the almost universally negative reaction from practically everyone who saw it. I'll go over some other things of note about it.

      For starters the majority of the factual information on that site is taken out of context, outdated, or misrepresented in some other way, most of the "myths" presented are not actually believed by anyone, or are in fact truths that the author attempts but fails to discredit.

      The entire site reeks to high heaven of bias and deception, and many of the sites that are linked to have spoken out against the misuse of their information to misrepresent Firefox.

      There's also the fact that the author himself is a well known troll.

      At any rate, I'm at a loss to understand why anyone would be so concerned about which browser they use that they would make up a site which dishonestly smears a competing product. Frankly, if this is the sort of tripe that Opera users feel they have to bandy around to feel better about themselves then I'm scared. What next? Stoning heretics to death in the street?

      What's really scary is that I'm a Mac user, and we're usually pretty immune to being frightened by fanatical zeal...

    9. Re:Yeah sure... by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

      Back in the day, when only Opera had tabs, I read lots of FF users saying that tabbed browsing was unnatural, idiotic, or just unneded. Now that FF has tabs, it is the best thing since sliced bread.

      This is another of those pearls (beware, link in spanish): http://www.cristalab.com/v3/foros/viewtopic.php?t= 18185, with time I have learned to distrust the technical arguments of lots of FF users.

      However, I vastty prefer to have technical discussions, and I admit I was wrong about aussie_a motives. You can read the rest of my conversation with him. And leave the stoning to the religious guys, I'm a proud atheist and I listen to arguments.

      Now back to the article. You can say the autor is the biggest troll ever, but you can't deny the speed stuff. Or the CSS acid test. Or the memory leaks in FF. Even if the autor endorses a IE skin as his prefered browser, with you and I and ten thousand readers knowing that FF is better than anything IE related.

      You just can't deny those points, so you went to attack the author of the article. Now who's the troll?

      If Opera is not as used as its technical merits suggest (the only important ones to me as I don't care about political agendas as FF users do), is because the huge and ugly advertising banner Opera used to have, and which was removed in response to FF gaining popularity.

      In fact I hope FF gains even more popularity, if just to force everyone to write standars compliant web pages. Believe me, banks are starting to notice. And then you and me and everyone else will use our favorite browser.

      --
      We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
    10. Re:Yeah sure... by steeviant · · Score: 1

      Back in the day, when only Opera had tabs, I read lots of FF users saying that tabbed browsing was unnatural, idiotic, or just unneded. Now that FF has tabs, it is the best thing since sliced bread.

      Amazingly, not all Firefox users think the same way about Firefox's features. You're talking about two different groups of people, perhaps if you weren't so determined to characterise Firefox as some kind of cult of Opera haters who only use Firefox because they're so stupid that they don't know any better you'd be able to make obvious logical jumps like this.

      This is another of those pearls (beware, link in spanish): http://www.cristalab.com/v3/foros/viewtopic.php?t= 18185, with time I have learned to distrust the technical arguments of lots of FF users.

      I'd distrust those people too, they're speaking jibberish. Very worrying, like fundamentalist christians who talk in "tongues". Alternatively, maybe I just don't speak spanish. Perhaps you could elaborate from your paranoid delusional viewpoint what exactly they did wrong.

      However, I vastty prefer to have technical discussions, and I admit I was wrong about aussie_a motives. You can read the rest of my conversation with him. And leave the stoning to the religious guys, I'm a proud atheist and I listen to arguments.

      Except when it comes to web browsers, evidently.

      Now back to the article. You can say the autor is the biggest troll ever, but you can't deny the speed stuff. Or the CSS acid test. Or the memory leaks in FF. Even if the autor endorses a IE skin as his prefered browser, with you and I and ten thousand readers knowing that FF is better than anything IE related.

      I can certainly argue against both of those points from a personal perspective, one of the main reasons that I use Firefox is because it does a better job than the alternatives of displaying pages the way the author intended. Perhaps it's due to Firefox's popularity that authors specifically make allowances for the breakages in Firefox's rendering engine while ignoring KHTML and Opera users.

      To sum up, while Opera might beat Firefox in certain CSS tests, in the ultimate test (using it to visit web pages that exist right now) Firefox has an edge. The speed gains of Opera can soon be negated by having to load up a different browser just to be able to interact with a web page.

      I'm not trying to say that Firefox is right for everyone, but it's certainly right for me, and a lot of others, many many more than Opera. Not that that's neccesarily a valid point, when you consider how many people stick with Internet Explorer (in the order of 10 times more than any other browser).

      You just can't deny those points, so you went to attack the author of the article. Now who's the troll?

      I attacked the author of the article because it was poorly written and biased, and the author is well known for using dirty tricks against his detractors. The fact that you'd quote that article does a lot more harm than good to your cause.

      If Opera is not as used as its technical merits suggest (the only important ones to me as I don't care about political agendas as FF users do), is because the huge and ugly advertising banner Opera used to have, and which was removed in response to FF gaining popularity.

      Yet you quoted a widely discredited and debunked biased article in an attempt to smear Firefox?

      I use Firefox for a variety pragmatic reasons, I can share my bookmarks and RSS feeds between multiple platforms automatically using a Firefox extension, I can trim the garbage from the user interface using XUL tweaks, I'm able to bundle up my changes or extend them to all users, using extensions like greasemonkey I can even manipulate the content of web pages to make them render correctly in Firefox, making it's rendering engine extensible (and fixable) in ways that most other browsers couldn't dream of being able to offer.

  70. lame gimmick by drew · · Score: 0, Troll

    Is it just me, or are the Opera widgets just a lame gimmick? They don't seem to offer any benefit over the multiple other widget packages out there (konfabulator, dashboard, etc.) and they don't stay open when you close your browser. So why would I want to use these as opposed to some other widget implementation that runs independently of my browser? If they would separate them out, for example, so that they used all of the Opera rendering libraries but ran in a separate process (that could be set to start automatically at login) I think it might be a really neat idea, but from what information they have available on the site, they look pretty lame.

    --
    If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
  71. This is pretty Math: by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

    http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/jsMath/

    At least I prefer to write LaTeX than XML and find the output of jsMath so nice looking.

    --
    We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
    1. Re:This is pretty Math: by Quadraginta · · Score: 1

      Oh, aye, if I was writing a nice static document, of course I'd use TeX. And then if I wanted to serve it on the Web, I'd probably just serve the DVI or PS file. Or PDF, if I wanted a wider audience.

      The problem is that I'm writing dynamic Web documents, which are constructed "on the fly" by the server, and which have a rich mathematical and figure content. Furthermore, these pages may be dynamic at the user end, too. That is, I sometimes serve some Javascript that allows the user to mess with the page a bit.

      It's not hard to write programs that read and write XML in all its flavors (that being the point of XML, after all), so I can easily compute and serve a document of mixed XHTML,MathML and SVG. Unfortunately, at this point, only FF can render it natively.

      The previous solution was to extract the math bits from the stream, construct a GIF/PNG image on the fly, and serve that. But this is a pain, and a server bottleneck, and anyway the GIFs occupy far more bandwidth than the equivalent MathML or SVG, "bloated" though those XML dialects may seem.

    2. Re:This is pretty Math: by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

      Did you check the link?
      I fell in love with the examples. They just look so nice.

      And, as that solution uses client side JS instead of server side programming, it is not a server hog. Just figure a way to print LaTeX stuff dinamically. It's easy. Students just would have to write LaTeX instead of XML, and I presume most will like it.

      Parsing XML surely can be a server hog.
      I could explain it, but Joel Spolsky surely has done a better job than I can:
      http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog00000003 19.html

      I'm not telling you to drop what you have done, but having alternatives is a good thing.

      --
      We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
    3. Re:This is pretty Math: by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

      Just to clarify my other comment.

      You print LaTeX source code in the page. It's just more text.

      The JS makes all the hard work of converting that source code to a nice math output. Pure Web client based stuff.

      It has nothing to do with DVI, PDF, PS, or any usual LaTeX toolchain.

      --
      We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
    4. Re:This is pretty Math: by Quadraginta · · Score: 1

      I did look at the link. Thank you. Not much of it worked for me, and lots was inappropriately sized. Not sure why, as I know all the CM fonts and such are available {shrug}.

      I dunno if parsing XML is a hog or not, compared to parsing TeX. I do know, however, that I can just plug in a library for parsing XML. I use libxml2, which is very fast, but alas sports random bugs and bizarre behaviour from time to time because the designer (an arrogant yoyo) doesn't give a f*** about breaking the thing to introduce Kool New Featurez. Would I need to roll my own TeX parser? That would be the pits.

      I use the XML as a high-level encoding of a fairly complex document. It's complex not so much because of the math and figure content, but because much of the content is randomly variable and conditional. For example, a particular number or phrase is chosen randomly at the top of the document, or in response to user action, and then all the rest of the document changes in response (a trivial example being that if a proper name is picked, like Joe or Mary, the pronouns further down adjust to reflect the sex, he or she, him or her, and so forth).

      I don't know any way to encode this kind of complexity as TeX, but I can do it with XML. Something like this:

      <noun name="person">
            <option>Mary</option>
            <option>Joe</option>
      </noun>

      Then further down:

      <noun name="person">
            <pronoun/>
      </noun>

      The application figures out from internal rules that the correct pronoun for "Joe" is "he", and so forth.

      Similar stuff happens with the math. For example, at the top I might have an equation. Further down the page, I might want to substitute a randomly generated number for a variable in the equation, then evaluate it, keeping track of whether the substituted number was an integer, decimal, or fraction and writing the output accordingly.

      Anyway, thanks for the info.

    5. Re:This is pretty Math: by Quadraginta · · Score: 1

      Well...I could do that, I suppose, yes. Only problem is, the input to the applications is pretty solidly XML, since I don't know any way to do it in TeX, and I don't see a point, actually, since the input isn't really text as such but more or less a collection of descriptions of objects. Since at present I (sloppily) use the output to communicate back to the input, it's helpful to have this be XML at both ends. Otherwise, I'd need both a parser and a writer for TeX and XML.

      But in the end I shouldn't be feeding back XML this way anyway, because it's very slow. I'll be abandoning this crutch sooner or later, and at that point, sure, I could consider doing the output in TeX. Might even be a good idea, to let people get printed pages...

    6. Re:This is pretty Math: by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1
      I think that the XML and the LaTeX source text would be processed separately, so the logic in one thing doesn't affect the logic in the other.

      Something like this for the LaTeX stuff(using php), keeping the rest of your XML stuff intact:
      <SCRIPT language="JavaScript" src="jsMath.js"></SCRIPT>
      <?php
      $number = random();
      //something more fancy for rationals is needed here
      $ntype = gettype($number);
      ?>
      text and more text
      <DIV CLASS="math">
      <!-- you see, this is just text: -->
      \phi(z) =
      <?php
      switch ($ntype) {
        case "integer":
      //here goes more LaTeX, just printed in a string, no DOM processing
            print "\sqrt{" . $number . "}";
            break;
      // the other cases and other format for the numbers
      }
      ?>
      </DIV>
      With that example you can see that it's not more taxing for your server, and the result can be seen with IE and Opera. The size of the fonts, could it be that you have other version of the fonts like the ones in SWP?

      Anyway the whole point of jsMath is to shift LaTeX rendering to the browser. Server side LaTeX is much more expensive than server side XML and almost everything else.

      I don't think Opera will implement MathML, neither IE, that's why I started looking for alternatives.
      --
      We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
    7. Re:This is pretty Math: by Quadraginta · · Score: 1

      Actually the easy part is doing the output. You're right, I could put it out as TeX without much trouble. The tricky bit would be parsing the input, or really, parsing the bits of output recycled as input. This happens because of the conditionality of much of the output page. That is, some parts of the page have different content depending on what other parts of the page have turned out to be. The way this is done now is to recycle bits of the output (which are XML) to the input parser (which expects XML).

      You're absolutely right in the end I don't want to be doing this on the server! So far this is no trouble, because as alpha (or less) product it's only used on a company intranet anyway. When I think about exposing it to the public, it will need to be done on the client side. But in this case, I have bigger problems than the parsing issue; there is some heavy processing that goes on beween parse and output, e.g. solving algebra equations, balancing chemical equations, calculating the graph of functions. This needs to be wrapped up in some kind of downloadable plug-in.

      I haven't tried the Design Science plug-in for IE that displays MathML, but they say it's nice. I would hope that works. Myself, since I'm a Linux geek, I just use FF anyway.

  72. Re:A browser without Adblock! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Unfortunately.... still a browswer without a way of easily installing Adblock! Opera's great, but I'll never switch until I can easily implement Adblock.

    So even without reading TFA - hell, even the Slashdot item that clearly says improved content blocking - you come here whining about Adblock?
  73. How hard can it be? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why can't they just bundle uTorrent or something with Firefox (or a Firefox extension) and make it the registered handler for .torrent files and/or whatever MIME type a torrent file shows up as?

    Okay, so that may not be as wonderful as having one totally integrated into Firefox, but it has the advantage of being a lot easier to do.

  74. Omnipera! by Amiasian · · Score: 1

    The site preferences and preview features both seem like they were ganked from OmniWeb 5, which has both for a while now. Same with the improved content and pop-up blocker.

    Well, now that people are finally getting up to OW's level, I'm going to be VERY interested in what the OmniGroup comes up with next to compete.

  75. Who needs Control-Enter? Enter works in others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I don't remember the behavior of opera about it... but I know some browser use to just try www + name + .com if the address is unreachable. For example if you type example and it doesn't find anything (no local computer mapped to example with a webserver) then it will try to reach www.example.com

    Netscape Navigator 3.0 and Netscape Communicator 4.0 automatically do this. Just type a single word into the location and press Enter. It automatically fills the http://www/ and .com. If you type two or more words separated by a space, then it would perform a net search on those terms. Even Lynx automatically searches for .com then .net and so on.

    Who needs Control-Enter anyway?

  76. Re:Hmmm...maybe I won't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I have been disappointed with Opera's support for DHTML and CSS. It is questionabled at best and downright useless at worst. I've got code here that pushes DHTML to its limits and it just plain doesn't run on Opera. And even worse is that it isn't easy to debug. Even IE has the script debugger which makes it *somewhat* useable...

    Tools / Advanced / JavaScript Console

    Granted, it's not a debugger, but it should at least provide you with some insight... Anyway, if there's a bug in Opera, I'm sure the lovely folks there would like to hear about it and fix it.
  77. Re:My biggest complaint with Opera by mazzarin · · Score: 2, Informative

    For your information, you can simply use the + - keys on the numpad (or on the main keyboard section) and it will scale text. Also, next to the zoom dropdown (where you can select the zoom with your mouse), there is a button called fit to window width - give it a shot.

  78. Re:My biggest complaint with Opera - page zooming. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you have no need for the images when zooming, you can just disable them. Pressing "g" will cycle through pictures, pictures from cache, and no pictures.
    Also, under View -> Images.

  79. Re:A browser without Adblock! by kyhwana · · Score: 1

    There is the "block content" bit in Opera 9, though.
    (Right click on a page somewhere and go "block content", anything not grayed out you can click on and it'll be blocked..)

    --
    My email addy? should be easy enough.
  80. I know(!) =) by newr00tic · · Score: 1

    Yeah! Forgot to mention that/those..

    In case I've missed something in your tips; a simple hold_ALT + [left/right] (keyboard keys) will also do the trick.

    Nice to see another dedicated Opera-user! -way to GO!!

    --
    A horse can't be sick, you know, even if he wants to.
  81. HOWTO config BitTorrent to work behind a proxy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there anyway to get BitTorrent to work from behind a firewall? Seems like standard http-proxies (ex. squid) and socks_proxies aren't up to the task. :-(

  82. Minimum font size? by leoPetr · · Score: 1

    Does setting the minimum font size in Preferences } Advanced } Fonts help at all?

    --
    My other body is also not wearing any.
  83. Re:A browser without Adblock! by vixenk · · Score: 1

    Oh yes, there is...

    Hello, OperaAdFilter: http://www.operaadfilter.com/

    With this + the flashblock script from userjs.org I don't even have to bother with manually blocking ads 90% of the time, just update a server list every couple of days.