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This only costs about $5 +shipping, and works up to 8 meters. It requires 2 ps2 ports, but I'm pretty sure you could get a 2-ps2 to 1 usb adapater, and it should work just fine.

Computer Surplus Outlet always looked good to me. I've never purchased from them, so I can't vouch for them as far as service and reliability goes, but they have newer and older hardware for pretty nice prices at times.

Go to Computer Surplus Outlet Buy one of the cheap Pentium II systems they are offering. Get Smoothwall, and install it on the cheap P-II (be sure to read the User's Manual included on the CD) you just bought. Sit it between your PC and cable modem. Got ghetto Broadband? Run Squid on it. You will have all the security of a Linux based Router/Firewall, and the speed advantage of a Squid Caching Proxy Server.

I have no affiliation with Computer Surplus Outlet. I just have a strong inclination toward reuse and recycling.

I have no affiliation with Computer Surplus Outlet. I just have a strong inclination toward reuse and recycling.

If you don't have an office nearby that's throwing away old Compaq Deskpros, Computer Surplus Outlet is a good place for older machines that are perfect for smoothwall & IP Cop. The slowest & cheapest thing I can see there are 233 PIIs for $29. Actually, that's *all* they have--they used to have a lot more, but if they're selling PIIs for $30 (I remember when the first PII/400 came out , the CPU itself was over $1,000) I guess they can't go much lower on that. Who wants to pay $0.50 for a 486 & $22 shipping?

Basically, it would simply be a touch-sensitive dumb terminal for a "central server" or master machine on my desk or in my closet.

You've pretty much described the Zenith Data Systems CruisePAD, another bit of tablet technology that failed to find a market. CSO was practically giving them away not long ago.

You could consider the Zenith Cruisepad, which is a pen-based thin-client tablet from 1995. You can buy them individually for $27 or 100 at a time for $1500. They use Citrix metaframe technology to display a remote computer's screen on the LCD. It works just like remote desktop because it IS remote desktop. I believe they can be made to work with Windows Terminal Services in W2K Server. Alternatively, since you're talking hardware anyway, you could hack them and add your own software into the flash, using the wireless network just for lightweight communications. They use Proxim RangeLAN 2 wireless technology. I've even managed to get them talking to my Proxim HRF card with the (original ancient DOS-based) terminal server running inside Windows XP Pro on a Dell notebook. Only happened once and after a lot of fiddling, and I never had the patience to find out again what exactly I did that time, but it obviously DOES work.

Anyway, just another (cheap) choice. I've got two of these and find them quite interesting.

You could consider the Zenith Cruisepad, which is a pen-based thin-client tablet from 1995. You can buy them individually for $27 or 100 at a time for $1500. They use Citrix metaframe technology to display a remote computer's screen on the LCD. It works just like remote desktop because it IS remote desktop. I believe they can be made to work with Windows Terminal Services in W2K Server. Alternatively, since you're talking hardware anyway, you could hack them and add your own software into the flash, using the wireless network just for lightweight communications. They use Proxim RangeLAN 2 wireless technology. I've even managed to get them talking to my Proxim HRF card with the (original ancient DOS-based) terminal server running inside Windows XP Pro on a Dell notebook. Only happened once and after a lot of fiddling, and I never had the patience to find out again what exactly I did that time, but it obviously DOES work.

Anyway, just another (cheap) choice. I've got two of these and find them quite interesting.

it's hard to find an old 486

Check here...$15 for a barebones Socket 5 system, $4 for 64 megs of RAM, $1 for a 100-MHz Pentium. You can probably do better locally with prices for el-cheapo Realtek-based NICs (I bought some Intel 10/100 NICs from them a while back for $2 each, but they're not up on their website...they have 3Com 3C905s listed at $20 each). For a firewall, you don't really need a hard drive...but you probably have one gathering dust that you could put in there if you want. I'm fairly sure that's a good bit less than whatever an Xbox costs.

• Apple IIGS
• Apple IIe
• Apple II+
• Quadra 610
• IBM PC/XT
• TI-99/4A
• TRS-80 CoCo 2
• Commodore VIC-20

I can put the IIGS, IIe, Mac, and PC/XT on my LAN, too...makes getting files onto them much easier than stringing serial cables around. (The IIs talk to the network through a GatorBox, which converts between LocalTalk and Ethernet. netatalk serves files to them and to the Mac. I was able to track down an 8-bit ISA NIC for the XT here . I then installed the DOS-based network client from the NT Server CD on it so that it can talk to Samba.)

The GS and the 99/4A are pretty nicely equipped (the GS was my main machine for years, and I've tracked down a PEB with 32K, RS-232, and a floppy drive for the 99/4A). I have a cartridge switch box, a floppy controller, and some other odds-and-ends for the CoCo, but I've never gotten a floppy drive to work properly with it. The IIe has a Workstation Card and a 1-meg RamWorks. The other machines are in more-or-less basic configurations.

Honestly... how can you sell a computer for $200 with a monitor? The cheapest, (refurbished) CRTs that I've ever seen are like $170.

The last CRT monitor I bought was a 15" Acer for somewhere around $100. That was new, BTW. If refurbs are OK, these guys just down the road from me have 17" NEC MultiSync M700s (with built-in speakers and mic) for $100. They probably have cheaper monitors that aren't listed, or you could see what the local Goodwill has available.

I need to find a stockpile of them though.

These guys have a bin full of keyboards in their warehouse of various models...IBM Model M, Gateway AnyKey, weird keyboards for terminals and word processors, el-cheapo generics, etc. I even found an Apple Extended Keyboard in there once (still need an ADB cable to hook it to my IIGS). $1 each, and I'd guess that if you ordered over the net, you could ask them to make sure they get you a Model M. (As for me, since they're about a mile from where I work, I can head over there any time. :-) ) You might need to clean it up a little bit, but that's no big deal.

You could also grab one off of a random eBay seller...I paid $8 that way for the one I'm typing on right now. I paid more for shipping than for the keyboard itself, but $20 for a solid keyboard isn't a bad deal IMHO.

Best:

Newegg. Not the cheapest, but good and have never had a problem.

Axion Technologies Never had a problem, lots of interesting stuff in their surplus section - always worth a browse.

Computer Surplus Outlet Good for very cheap systems that you can tweak with a few extra bits, especially old P2-grade machines at ridiculously low prices and occasional weird stuff. Component prices aren't all that good, but they often have specials (I got a heap of P2 Xeon 400s from them, with heatsink, for $9.99 each.)

Worst:

CNet PC

They marked a delivery "no signature required" without telling me. When the package never arrived they just said "not our fault" and stopped replying to my emails.

Another piece of advice: if you're ordering from out-of-state to avoid sales tax, remember that it's going to be a lot harder - probably not worth your while - to take them to small claims court...

CSO has a ton of rackmount AT cases (empty...no motherboard, power supply, etc.) available. They're not on the company's website, but the guy who built the toolbox PC said he bought one of these dirt-cheap. If you email CSO and ask about the FoxBox cases, you should be able to get prices and specs from them. I don't think adapting them to ATX would be too difficult (you'd need a big rectangular cutout for the back-panel stuff). They have no drive bays open to the front, but I'd imagine you could punch a hole for a CD burner or whatever and clean it up in a manner similar to what was done with the toolbox PC.

Both compgeeks and CSO have laptops right now, Geeks have two under Thinkpad PIIs for under $500 and CSO has some (dead ones) for $249.

And that brings us to my point: making software compatible with older hardware shouldn't be a goal in and of itself. Why? One need only to venture over to Pricewatch to see that an AMD 1800+ mobo/CPU combo sells for under $300.

True, but if that system is extreme overkill for the task at hand and you have some old bits that you can lash together into something that will get the job done, why not take advantage of the capability?

I needed to set up a print server at work not too long ago. I threw together a system using nothing but junkbox parts: a 486DX2-66 on a VLB motherboard, ISA VGA card and IDE controller, a couple of ISA NICs (it needs to handle jobs from two networks), 32 megs (or was it 16?) of FPM DRAM, a 340MB hard drive, an AT minitower case with power supply, and a downloaded copy of the latest version of Slackware (hadn't installed Slackware on a machine in ages, but it seemed appropriate here). A couple or three hours later, it was up and running. The next day, it took an hour or so to set up print queues and get all the machines in the office set up to print to it.

Total cost to get it running? $1.00, and that was for a CMOS battery from the local surplus shop since the NiCd on the motherboard wasn't keeping a charge. The print-server boxes you can get for $50 won't do what this server does, and why should I have blown upward of $500 on even a "low-end" computer that would've been way more than what was needed?

Heh. Including the 5.25" Floppy Drives that other guy was looking for yesterday.

I got memory from them with no problems. They also carry a lot of other crap too.

SCSI is dead.

For most consumer and single-user environments, IDE is plenty fast enough. Even in the small server market, IDE is adequate.

SCSI won't be around as a serious disk option for much longer, I suspect.

(The storage I use at home is a mix of IDE and SCSI. The x86 boxen got IDE because it was cheap (though the 100GB Western Digital I bought recently is now in a FireWire case so I can schlep it between home and work). The Apples (a IIGS and a Mac Quadra 610) got SCSI because it's what they expect. I'll be building a "new" server soon with a pair of P!!!-500s that was given to me...the motherboard I bought for them has onboard UW SCSI, so I might snag a Barracuda or three from the local used-parts place and see how Linux runs on SMP.)

Not to mention that USB has killed SCSI for things like scanners.

(FWIW, I have lots of stuff that plugs in through serial, parallel, or SCSI. I even have a device now that uses FireWire (a hard drive, and I'd strongly consider a DV camcorder over VHS-C or 8mm, if I needed one). I've never bought anything that used USB, though...already had a nice SCSI scanner, SCSI Zip, various AT/serial/PS/2 keyboards and mice, etc.)

Or bug your friends... do you really want that P90 anymore? No?! Sweet!

Also, CSO is your friend

The problem with old PC's like your 486 is that their RAM is very expensive.

another problem: they use a lot of electrical power, esp. since they have to be running 24/7.

Take your pick: http://www.directmobile.com/DMHome/Fujitsu%20Pen.h tm

Or you can go cheap: http://www.computersurplusoutlet.com/viewproduct.a sp?ProductID=COM-FST500

I'm also running the Debian(woody) mozilla package at home on my linux box, that's on a p3-600 and it's fairly nice too, (crashed once so far, it just disappeared, heh)

Hardware is cheap man, you can probably buy a decent fast p3 for like $200 and a mobo for maybe $100 if you current one isn't sufficient, and maybe an extra 128 meg stick of ram for like $60 at CSO. Just went to their front page and they have a AMD Duron 700,64MB,7.5GB,40X System $399, give it more ram you you got yourself a screaming box. That's what I did to all my computers recently and now I'm a happy camper.

Ok... I'm a hardware addict, so sue me :)

Err... oops, this comment was supposed to be about Opera, wasn't it? :) I'd think of a joke to add to protect my worthless karma, but I'm really not that funny. :)

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$5 for a 75 mhz pentium, link is here

Okay dude, I know this sounds weird but SCSI would not only be faster, but probably cheaper. Most SCSI drives (of even two generations back) can do easily 10MBps+ (80Mbps+), whereas even USB's fastest speed, we're talking only 1.5MBps (12Mbps). And don't even think of those IDE to parallel kits, 2MBps (16Mbps) max (most don't get get 1MBps/8Mbps). Plus SCSI support under Linux is easy (and even loadable on the fly!).

Cards, case and cabling should run you under $100 for two systems. The a good sized, but older model, SCSI drive should only be another $30-100 for a decent size (2-23GB) and speed (5400-7200rpm, 512-2048KB buffer). The breakdown:

• Cards ($20/each) -- (2) SCSI cards at about $20 a piece thanx to the TekRam-315U (UltraSCSI, no-BIOS). You can find them at your favorite PriceWatch advertising reseller. You'll need more if you have more than a few systems to swap between. Of course this becomes cost prohibitive if its more than 5 systems, so consider that. But for just 2-4 systems, it's great (and, again, fast)!
• Case ($20) -- You can usually find them at various on-line resellers for $20 or so. Here's a great 2-bay w/40W PS for $19, and that's new. If you want smaller, there are various resellers with single bay SCSI enclosures too. Cyberguys has a 3.5" for $50, although you might find cheaper if you look a bit. The case should come with internal cabling (I've never seen one without).
• External Cabling ($10) -- Cabling is also an addition, but fairly cheap anymore. Assuming you set the drive jumper for termination, you only need the cable. You can get the SCSI-2 HD50M to Centronics 50M for $9 for cases with Centronics connectors, or SCSI-2 HD50M to HD50M for $10 for cases with SCSI-2 HD connectors -- both at Cyberguys. If you really want to not terminate the drive itself, but on the case, HD50M active terminators are $11 and Centronics passive terminators are $5
• Hard Disk ($30+) -- Depending on what model you get, older SCSI hard drives can be had for $30-100. If you want massive or fast, $200-300 will get you give a bit of each. Some resellers that carry new, unused, used and refurbished hard drives:
  • Computer Geeks Outlet -- good personal experiences
  • Hi-Tech Cafe -- don't deal with their web site (sux, lose orders), call them instead
  • Com puter Surplus Outlet -- good dealings with them several times

Drives that are 50-pin narrow (Fast, Ultra, Ultra2, etc...) and will work in the case without modification. Some with be 68-pin wide or 80-pin SCA (FastWide, UltraWide, Ultra2Wide/Ultra80, Ultra160). In the case of the two later, Cyberguys sells converters to 50-pin narrow for nearly all of these connectors. The only caveat you'll have is termination, either terminate on the drive itself (i.e. don't use an external terminator) or tell the drive to use 8-bit SCSI (instead of 16-bit in 68/80-pin) as any external terminator for 50-pin will only terminate the lower 8-bits (some drives will autosense the connection as narrow and will autoterminate anyway -- see the drive docs).

Again, the only reason not to go with this config is if you are going to be sharing with more than just a few systems. You're going to be lugging around a drive anyway, why not forget worrying about carrying the media as well and have 50x the storage (compared to Zip -- much more manageable).

If you absolutely need removable and have the money to burn look at SCSI Jaz instead (2GB capacity, ~5MBps/40Mbps performance). But don't go optical, e.g. 5.2/9.4GB DVD-RAM, it's slow (9x CD, 1x DVD = 1.35MBps/10.5Mbps).

-- Bryan "TheBS" Smith

Here's a link for all your old parts needs.

This is if you don't have an electronic surplus place (a useful resource if you need video cards, full height 5 1/4" 8" Floppy drives etc. for AT/AX or other old machines) in your town/city .

I bought a lot of my older hardware at Computer Surplus Outlet last year, and also some at Computer Strippers.com.

Locally (to me), I occasionally pick up a part at Rochester Computer Recycling and Recovery and Computer Renaissance.

The Markerpro computer sales that come by every month would also have a fair selection of older stuff. I have to buy a fair amount to offset the entrance price, though.

The best deals are at garage sales, though. Last summer I picked up a 486/66 dissassembled tower (with CDROM, NIC and sound) and a NEC C400 multisync, speakers, keyboard and a mouse for under $100. I gutted the tower to make a Pentium, and I use the monitor every day as my primary monitor.

George

I buy lots of parts at Computer Surplus Outlet, just the place to keep my P90s and 486's happy.

George

http://www.computersurplusoutlet.com/ has quad Ppro rackmount NECs for $600 (no ram, cpus or drives)

If you want an SMP system... this would be the puppy to go with... (They also sell PPro CPUS)


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