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Cheap Linux Tablets, And (Maybe) An Apple Tablet
penguinrenegade writes "Element Computer has come out with the first sub-$1000 Tablet, and it doesn't come with Windows. It's not running a stripped OS like Windows CE, but a full-fledged copy of Lycoris Desktop/LX. This company seems to really have it in for Microsoft, with a 'No Windows' policy. Good to see someone finally standing up against paying the Microsoft tax. Maybe now we'll start seeing Linux only OEMs and resellers." Also on the tablet computer front, SeanAhern points out Cringely's latest Robert X. Cringely column, in which Cringley makes the case that Apple is readying a tablet computer for market, and "suggests that 'until next year, the parts won't have been there to make tablet PCs successful. What's missing has been the killer app, and what kept a killer app from appearing was a lack of hardware support, which I believe will be over soon,'" writing "He's got some interesting ideas about where Jobs might go with his Digital Hub idea." (This is an Antaur-based machine, not the Toshiba tablet mentioned in October.)
Apple's bound to make a tablet eventually. If the market demands it, it'll definitely happen, and the current tablets on the market suck. Apple's got the Newton tech for handwriting recog, as well as Inkwell, the most underused feature in OS X...now, all you have to add is a touch sensitive screen and BINGO.
Depending on the software availability angle, this could be a major breakthrough for Linux, being the primary OS for a vendor.
I don't see how a Linux tablet would even work... mainly because the lack of Linux handwriting recognition. Sure, you could do it, but would someone be as productive with one as with a windows one?
But... an apple tablet... my mouth is drooling now...
--1-888-633-3446 -> call me.
Man that was fast... and this error makes me wonder:
1226 - User 'elementc_ms2' has exceeded the 'max_questions' resource (current value: 10000)
Does that mean there are in excess of 10,000 people trying to hit this site at once? Wow.
If i remember correctly, Robert X. Cringely was the same guy who wrote that Win XP ran DOS underneath becasue "cmd" works and that windows should be based on linux instead because linux is better than DOS. /. , what i dont understand is why this guy is so important?
For all the stupid things i have seen on
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
:)
:(
Too bad the site is already Slashdotted.
--
no sig for you. come back one year.
the linux tablet website running apache/linux and php/mySQL down after 1 comment.
thank you, sir, may I have another???
According to Steve Jobs himself I don't think we can expect to see a tablet from apple at all. It's a niche product in a niche computer field.
- tristan
Only a few posts and the site has already been slashquestioned? What is this world coming to when people ask > 10000 questions in the first few minutes of a post!?!
Yea...a really expensive palm pilot by Apple :)
But a tablet mac sounds like the furthest device from possibility to me. I'm just going on gut feeling admittedly.
Apple tend to innovate in solid areas. There's the odd revolution (the original mac, the original powerbooks) and then there's refining what already exists and people want, such as iPods
a Mac tablet would be refining a current idea that few people want.
"Maybe now we'll start seeing Linux only OEMs and resellers."
That was never a problem in the first place. It is that Microsoft has threatened to revoke the ability of retailers to carry computers with Windows alongside with other OSes (i.e. stop selling Linux, or you can't sell Windows). Most retailers balked, since most of their business is Windows, they'd rather not have to worry about losing a large portion of their customers for the sake of those that want Linux.
But, how do you protect that screen? Something big like that just seems to be a huge scratch and scuff collector. Is this the case or am I just missing something obvious again?
"Maybe now we'll start seeing Linux only OEMs and resellers."
Wishful thinking, and I'm wishing it too. The problem is a base. Tablet PCs haven't been doing so hot (at least not in my neighborhood). The only major interest that I've seen on a large scale has been that of FedEx looking to implement them with their current DADS system, in addition to maintaining open communications with cellular towers. I'm a FedEx dispatcher myself, so I'm kept abreast of what technologies we're planning on moving to in the future. Tablet PCs in the field will help keep us even more accurately up-to-date. Currently, our drivers can only transmit when in range of our larger towers (which are only in the cities), meaning that customers wanting updated tracking information on a package routed to a rural area just have to sit and wait until the driver is in range to transmit data confirming that he/she has indeed delivered that package. With properly equipped tablets, we're hoping to eliminate this problem with true real-time status updates.
What's curious is that, though I may have my head in the clouds, I've really not heard of any other major market for these things beyond novelty. The exception being the Apple rumor. Had apple had access to the technology in a financially feasable market (say 1994) I can absolutely see how ClarisWorks 4 could have dominated the word processing market of that day, and we'd have tablet PCs everywhere. As it stands now, I get the impression that people aren't quite sure what to do with these crazy things.
Damon,
http://actionPlant.com
Thanks guys. . . . Now I have a valid excuse for not RTFA-ing.
The Future is Open.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
We didn't even get to post a comment about how XXX should RTFA before it went down.
Apple's tablet will probably have some catchy yet mildly queer name (the Applet or something).....and it will, without a doubt, be THE most expensive tablet out there.
Kiss my shiny metal ass
It was greatly surprising to find news about this tablet on MSNBC with no comments inferring that it was unstable, inferior, communist...i =-
http://msnbc.com/news/999960.asp?0s
120 chars of filth!
Front Page
It's not much, but at least provides a "look" at one of their products.
-OZ
I had a graphics tablet on an Amiga (custom written driver) - in 32 lovely colors. I now have a pathetic giant touch screen - which I hate - for demonstration purposes. Yes, I have tried the inkwell, but nothing I have found seems to be good for anything but jotting down the odd note.
My point, thanks for following along, is one made at Siggraph many times. What we have in terms of display technology is in need of a real change. Not just the odd incremental hop - which is what tablet computing is.
Any preoccupation with ideas of what is right or wrong in conduct shows an arrested intellectual development. (Wilde)
this:
OS like Windows CE
should read:
OS-like Windows CE
-knowles
Tablet computers hold great promise, especially for medical applications. But the current models are still way too large to swallow.
Well, Jobs said there would never be an Apple tablet. And as much as I'd *LOVE* to have one (thinking of my Sharp Zaurus, but with Apple's UI and attention to detail and great design), I can't see how apple could justify such a niche product.
...
My dream Apple tablet would be around 8-9 inches, lightweight and low-power, built-in wireless, minimal storage, basically a satellite for a laptop or desktop.
But reading the article I see what Cringely is really talking about is a portable *video player*, or basically a revolutionary type of portable TV.
And I've often thought about how Apple's next move could be a TiVo-like device... put all these concepts together: iPod, high-speed wireless, color display, tablet PC, TiVo... you just might come up with something really cool with mainstream appeal (at least among the iPod crowd).
Some kind of video iPod that automatically docks wirelessly perhaps? Seamlessly go between a portable video player and your big screen TV? Tie it in with an "iVideo store"? Could Steve charm the movie industry the way he did the RIAA vultures? Hey, he's the CEO of Pixar, he must know a few people....
Food for thought anyway, it's about time for Apple to redefine a category and TV/Video is ripe for some Apple-style innovation
NOVEMBER 27, 2003
Digital Hubris:
Apple's Tablet Computer Might Finally Be That Link Between Your PC and TV
By Robert X. Cringely
High-tech is relentlessly optimistic and for good reason: the good times -- ALL the good times -- are caused by product transitions. New stuff costs more, has higher profit margins, and occasionally leads to changes in market leadership. A year or two later, these products will have been commoditized, the profit sucked out of them by intense competition, and it will be time to move on to the next big thing. Four years ago, the cheapest 802.11b access point you could buy cost $299. This week, I saw one advertised that with rebates brought the final cost down to zero, nothing, nada, zilch. Time to move on. So high-tech is always looking forward, never back, and taking a gamble on something new isn't perceived so much as a gamble but as a way of life.
The techniques for getting us to buy new stuff vary. In the best of cases, these new sales are driven by new functionality -- a color printer instead of black-and-white, a notebook computer instead of a desktop, a DVD instead of a VCR. At other times, the upgrade is driven by bloat as new MIPS-burning applications and operating systems make our old stuff too painfully slow. This doesn't happen by accident, folks. And into this performance abyss we throw not just new products but new TYPES of products, because industrial dynasties come from defining new market niches. Hewlett-Packard, for all its glorious history, is more than anything else a laser printer company. Cisco Systems, for all its desire to be something more, is a router company. These are niches they defined and that have led to decades of success.
And that brings us to the tablet computer, a tightly-defined product still in search of success.
Tablet computers have been around in various forms for years. Back in the early 1990s, we called it Pen Computing, and VCs lost a lot of money trying to get us to exchange our keyboard for a touchscreen and a stylus. The product success that emerged from that experiment was something both more and less than what was expected -- the Palm Pilot and later Windows CE. We didn't replace our desktops and notebooks with pen computers, but we added a new type of little computer to our lives. It was that perfect technical play -- the chance to replace a seven dollar, little black book with a $399 PDA.
A couple years ago, pen computers re-emerged as tablets with a larger form factor, supposedly expanded functionality and definitely expanded pricing. Microsoft made a special version of Windows just for tablet PCs, and most of the big hardware OEMs churned out tablet designs. But we haven't been buying them. In a U.S. market that supports sales of 50+ million PCs and notebooks per year, total tablet PC sales from all manufacturers this year will be less than 100,000 units. The screens are bigger and brighter, the applications smarter and the handwriting recognition better, but tablet computers are still looking for their killer app.
Apple Computer has been decidedly absent from the tablet game. In part, this has to do with the failure of the Newton, which will always be associated in the mind of Steve Jobs with his former friend and nemesis John Sculley. "Real computers have keyboards," Steve has said a zillion times, and he'll mean it right up to the moment he changes his mind.
That moment appears to be coming soon.
Quanta, the Taiwanese company that makes many Apple notebooks, has been apparently switching its production to the new tablets, or at least that has been reported in the Taipei press since early this year. If this is the case that Apple is introducing such a machine as early as January, how is it likely to be different from the Windows-based tablet machines that have so far failed to excite buyers? And why, in the face of such lackluster sales, has Microsoft done another rev of its tablet operating system? What is it about this product niche that makes it so attracti
Inkwell is the Newton's handwriting recognition engine ported to OS X.
For certain uses, tablets are great. I loved the Newton - it was a great computing solution for people who have to stand up. (Like walking around doing inventory control, or doing data entry while inspecting a highway, doctors, etc.)
If Apple could also market it so that it competes with something like the Wacom Cintiq tablets, but also could have a keyboard plugged in and be like a full blown Mac, I could see it filling a niche.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Thanks /. now I don't have to go to all that trouble. I can hack their db just by a good 'ol slashdotting. Guess what everyone in my family's getting for Xmas!!1
Down.ElementComputers product site is now officially slashdotted.
Linux is often more difficult for the average user to figure out. Tablets are often more difficult for the average user to figure out. If we put them together, we can't loose!
This is going to seem like your average flaming /. question (hmm, that didn't quite come out right), but I'm genuinely curious as to the problem that the tablet PC solves. What's it good for?
I honestly don't see the use in it, and instead I really see another try by engines of industry to create demand for a product noone really needs...
Hopefully someone can explain it to me, and this isn't just me turning 30...
What I don't want is a sub-10000-users-at-a-time RDBMS.
The article talks about the "killer app" for the tablet being home theater (basically). Then it goes to add that the hardware to make that possible - UWB wireless - is just coming out in January.
To me though none of these pieces add up. I can possibly see HD video feeds between components and even PC's being of some use - but to a tablet? HD resolution is going to be wasted on a tablet screen (at least at current DPI for LCD's).
Then once the video gets to the table - what then? A really large glorified remote control? Why would Apple have any interest in that?
In the article he even mentioned the quote from Jobs that I agree with 100% - computers need keyboards. I have zero desire to see a tablet from Apple, partly because I feel it would be a drain on them but also partly because I just can't see how such a device fits into anyones world other than sketch artists. I beta tested some kind of tablet PC long ago, and the device worked OK - but I was hard pressed to find good reasons to own one, and now I have a laptop which I find much handier.
Would an Apple tablet be cool? Possibly, but not in the same way the iPod or OSX is cool...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The Helium 2100, from Staten Island, N.Y.-based manufacturer Element Computer, is a convertible PC with a sliding screen that can be positioned for use as a traditional notebook PC or folded down for use as a touch-screen tablet device. "
Source: http://news.com.com/2100-1005_3-5112309.html?tag=n efd_top
whois elementcomputer.com:
"Domain name: ELEMENTCOMPUTER.COM
Administrative Contact:
Hjorleifsson, Mike mikeh@dtev.com"
OK, lets look here:
http://www.dtev.com
They are a bunch of Linux consultants.
Dtev.com Isn't slashdotted yet!
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
But the irony of it all is that if it weren't for /. you wouldn't know about the site!
Kleedrac
Sure we wang, can.
I heard of a company that made decent hardware, but Linux only. I think their name was VA something or other. Ever heard of them?
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
I'm sorry if I sound like a dumbass, and I hope this isn't offtopic, but I've been wondering for a while now. What is Lycoris? They're registered as a distribution on http://www.linux.org/ and yet there is no download and as far as I've read in their own support they don't mention what liscense it's released under. Does this OS use the linux kernel, if so what liscense does it use? If it's LGPLed why is there no downloadable source/version? Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions or start a flame war on my behalf.
Kleedrac
Sure we wang, can.
If this is true, this is the biggest scandal to hit Slashdot ever. More users should try this and see if it's true. I'm outraged quite frankly.
Helium 2100
$999
Preconfigured Linux Tablet with Lycoris Desktop/LX
Key features
14.1-inch XGA (1024 x 768) Touch Panel active matrix display
Perfect 2-in-1 convertible design, Notebook and Tablet PC
Processor: 1 GHz VIA? Antaur
Stylus included
256MB Installed Memory: up to 1 GB of DDR266 200-pin DRAM via two sockets
30GB Installed Hard Drive: up to 80 GB
Keyboard: 85-key keyboard with Extended Function Keys
O/S: Powered by Desktop/LX Tablet Edition
Battery: up to 3 hours battery life
Wireless: internal 802.11b (11 MBps) (OPTIONAL)
Ports:
2x USB 1.1/2.0;
1x type II PCMCIA/CardBus slot;
1x IrDA 1.1 FiR;
1x stereo headphone jack;
1x RJ11 for K56flex V90 modem;
1x RJ45 for 10/100 LAN;
1x external CRT port;
4-in-1 Flash Card Reader SD/MMC/MS/SM
Ugh, I'm very disapointed to see this guy's name on the front of /.
The man is either an idiot, or a liar. I personally lean toward the latter. His articles constantly contain in accurate information, the highlight being his passive yagi antenna setup (http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020207 .html)
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
This is going to be a bitter pill to swallow, but the market needs strong medicine. The writing's on the wall. Let's not sugar-coat the truth.
One more thing, his "Killer App" of a digital hub is simply based on Steve Job's quote made just last month. But, personally, I don't think Cringely is on the right path. Jobs has said before that the TV and computer shouldn't merge, and Job's idea of Digital Hub has been iTunes, iDVD etc, not directly interacting with your home appliances.
Joseph Elwell.
Actually what would ROCK would be a re-envisioning of the eMate. A friend of mine has one and has been using it every day since 1997. Tough as nails and still looks every bit as cool as it did when it first came out. Ran NewtonOS. Kickass.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
I think most manufacturers are having problems with table PCs because they are trying to make them keyboardless laptops. It will never happen. Why? I hate to write. So do many others and true handwriting technology is so processor intensive you can't currently pack it into a handheld. I'd rather type. I can type much faster that I can write and, well, you see where I'm going with this.
If I were going to deliver a "tablet" PC, I'd make one like this:
Basically, it would simply be a touch-sensitive dumb terminal for a "central server" or master machine on my desk or in my closet. I'd want to be able to "VNC" to my desktop or open one of several "published" X-window apps with a finger tap. Give me a browser, email client (could be a browser), basic word processing (all running off my central server) and perhaps a small collection of rdp and terminal service clients - perhaps also running off my desktop. With a simple GUI to configure a connection to one (or more?) parent hosts and little or no built-in brains, this could be made dirt cheap (all the processing is handled by the server) - you are paying mostly for the touchscreen - which doesn't have to be very big. I'd pay a couple hundred bucks a piece or so to have one sitting on my coffee table or in my bedroom.Remember, this isn't supposed to be a PC in it's own right. It's supposed to be an extension of my main PC. 90% of what I want to do with a "tablet" is monitor something or do a quick browse without having to run into the other room. If you try to make it be a computer in-and-of-itself, it will be prohibitively expensive, heavy, hot and large.
If I could take my Palm(tm), add low-power, built-in wireless networking, stretch the screen to about 10"x6" and add an Xwindows/VNC client, I'd be getting pretty close to having what I, personally, want in a tablet.
Just my opinion, but this comes from many time when I've caught myself wishing I could just have my monitor follow me from room to room.
"terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
Putting this rumor into perspective
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Here is where I mentioned this exact thing before.
On another note, there is a Windows Tablet available for just above $1000, here. Reconditioned Gateway tablet, inluding wireless keyboard/touchpad - nice looking, to me. Not sure if I yet buy into the tablet idea though - maybe it's my lack of money that keeps me safe from myself.
-bZj
.sig
That link gives me: 1226 - User 'elementc_ms2' has exceeded the 'max_questions' resource (current value: 10000) select value from sessions where sesskey = '1a742c21daec4b2fd77f3f3d7b041922' and expiry > '1070331671' [TEP STOP] Interesting, Maybe too many users connected to the site? Anyone have any ideas?
Sorry, this is not relevant to the topic at hand, about which I have no opinion, but I have to ask. From the write-up, I read (my emphasizing, italics show where the link was):
This mis-spelling is so prevalent around here that I can't help wondering why it is so. Is there something in the English language that makes native speakers/readers/writers susceptible to it? Or is it an elaborate pun that I have failed to perceive? Please enlighten me!
Xavier
Do I make sense? Please report if not.
neither of my links give that error - meant to reply to the main post maybe?
-bZj
.sig
It's an old PowerBook G4/500. I stream my iTunes music to it wherever I go (even the coffee bar), and jam out with my headphones. The only bad part is the wired headphone. If I had a new Bluetooth-enabled AlBook, that would be sweet :)
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
"reconditioned" is a nice way of saying "used"...
If that's how they handle the case of a high number of people at their website... in this very ugly manner... imagine how they handle other extreme cases with their hardware/software... Not confidence inspiring really.
I was once working on our webserver at work and mentioned the "slashdot effect" to one of the guys I work with and the my server crashed the moment I said "slashdot".
Death by suggestion. Could have been coincidence though, it was IIS.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
I hope Element Computer sell a million of the suckers so they can upgrade their web servers.
Nice error message, though. I always like to see the failed SQL statement. Helps me as much as the next potential constomer...
to the digital hub. WiFi movies on the pad in your bedroom so you don't get the iMac keyboard all gummy. Control your computer/ TV, iPod from the kitchen.
We will just have to wait, but then speculating about what Apple will do is fun.
photosMy Photostream
Nelson: Jimbo, take a memo on your Newton, beat up Martin.
Jimbo: [Writes "Beat up Martin"; Newton "recognizes."] "Eat up Martha"? Bah! [Throws at Martin's head.]
TEP STOP? What the heck is TEP STOP?
I thought I'd ask Google. Oops.
Results 1 - 10 of about 10,100. Search took 0.10 seconds.
It's kinda fun browsing through the cache of all those busted websites though....
"But, how do you protect that screen? Something big like that just seems to be a huge scratch and scuff collector. Is this the case or am I just missing something obvious again?"
perhaps you should come up with a way to protect them, and start your own business?
You should be able to sketch on one, but it sounds like a great idead for another add-on. O program will all the symbols allready in it, you just drag them from the sie and drop theminto you notes.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It's a suppository.
Every time I open my iBook, and especially on the times that I've used it, open, on the passenger seat of my car as an audio player, I've wished that fat central hinge (which works better and is stronger than I first thought it appeared) had the other degree of motion necessary to flop that display around ala Toshiba's (and many other companies') tablets. (That is, the ones that include a keyboard and swivel into notebook mode when desired.)
... well, less awkward. :)
An open laptop is much more precarious than a tablet would be, esp. one like the iBook, which does not open to a full flat position, and a touch screen would make a laptop much more useful as a car computer in the style of this car-mounted iBook, but
Having seen a few nice (factory-option) GPS navigation system / car computers (though not in any car *I'm* likely soon to own), I am a convert, despite previously considering them nothing more than a silly affectation, evidence that people had more money than sense.
On an airplace, too, or better still in the gate waiting area, a tablet would be a far more convenient style for catching up on news sites, watching movies, etc. Trivial, maybe, but it's something I'd like in a portable computer.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
microsoft tax lol. live in your heads is f un!
APPLE WILL NOT MAKE A TABLET IN THE NEAR FUTURE. Go to www.appleinsider.com to get the Apple scoop and reasons why it won't make a tablet any time soon.
I don't want a linux-only-oem. I just want one to give me a choice...
windows, linux, or blank hard disk.
#6495ED - cornflower blue
Imagine the incredible amount of posts there would be if the site was available - we'd be checking out the specs and all kinds of stuff... Also interesting is how the error on the page changed...
mix_master_mike
vafrous
Are you using slashdot to push your religion, or is this just a troll?
Shut up. You can't moderate in a thread that you've posted in. Who cares about this anyway?
Maybe you should consider what Steve Jobs has to say.
The first sub $1000 tablet is a Windows XP based tablet manufactured by Sager. It has a 1.0ghz VIA(TM) C3 Processor and has been available for at least a couple months (I know, I bought one).
Tm
Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
When you see those startrek buffs running around with their cute tablets, you just know it's a good idea. But a tablet do run current programs and their three-mouse-button/keyboard GUI's is just dumb.
Hospitals, institutions, huge engineering projects, universities, and of course NASA (who are secretly training the next first generation StarTrek crew)... They could do with them, provided the applications and above all kick ass Stupid Simple interfaces are there.
As for me, I've already got a computer, a PSII and a remote control. All I miss is an iPod and a turtleneck.
I think, therefore I am...I think.
the killer app for a 1000 dollar tablet is a giant remote control?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Whoever admins that sever isn't too bright. The error indicates too many connections. Common sense and basic experience tells you to use a single persistent connection between your web server and your database backend. Sheesh. Of course, it would still get slashdotted, but at least it's not trying to deal with 1000's of separate sql connections then.
Handwriting recognition on Linux has been pushed by all the hackers working on the PDAs of the world (Zarus, etc.). It's been done, and there's a few projects out there.
Simple things like palm's grafitti? Relatively easy, and... DONE.
I imgaine that it would not be a far stretch to get real handwriting recognition to work on a more powerful machine.
I've thought for some time that a tablet would be great for school. School systems could move their textbooks to digital form. You could write notes directly on the pages & include animations, video and web links. You could write notes on the screen. And keep the texts always up to date. Did I mention that you wouldn't have to lug around 30lbs of books? Sure, it's nice to have a paperback, but mostly for novels and pleasure reading. I would prefer to have a physics/biology/compsci/notebook/e-mail client with wireless networking in a light-weight slimform. It's clearly coming. The question is which government will be the first to phase out paper textbooks and order a few hundred thousand slabs of silicon? I'm waiting . . . .
harmonious design
According to Microsoft's Steve Ballmer:
"There are no plans to stop pushing tablets. When Microsoft first started out, people didn't want tablets. We realized: Death would eventually take care of this."
Breakfast served all day!
I remember back around 85 Apple had a contest for students to come up with a spec for the ideal machine of the future (2000! iirc), and the winner was basically a tablet computer.
-pyrrho
Posted this to usenet:comp.sys.mac.advocacy when this was first mentioned there:
Interesting column. First, I don't see the TabletPC as ``failed'' --- not quite
where some overly optimistic pundits projected, but, e.g., Fujitsu's pen
division continues to have strong sales _and_ to be profitable.
The article overlooks a couple of things though, which support Apple's (strong,
I believe) potential position for a tablet:
InkWell - bundled w/ Jaguar and later, it's wholely owned by Apple and adds
zero cost. By contrast, Microsoft is licensing the Calligrapher recognition
from Paragraph, and charging OEMs more for Windows XP Tablet PC edition than
for standard Windows XP.
compatibility - w/ Windows for Pen Services in Windows 95/98, it's hit or miss
which apps will accept HWR---examples range from working perfectly in 95 and
slightly crippled in 98 (Dirk Stuve's WinTexShell---the contextual pen menu for
selected text doesn't work in 98), to non-functional w/ awkward work-around
(FutureWave's SmartSketch garbles any attempt to write into a text field, but
one can write into a WordPad OLE object) to just plain broken (the Windows QT
version of Sbook5 from www.sbook5.com (may not be available any longer, haven't
checked in a while) crashes when one attempts to write into it).
By contrast, apparently all apps in Jaguar which accept keyboard input work w/
InkWell---can anyone confirm or provide counter-examples?
Also, the above doesn't reflect experience w/ TabletPC---has anything changed
markedly?
processor power / battery life - PowerPC has marked advantages for portable
operation (though this is ameliorated somewhat by recent x86 chip developments)
App extensibility - where Microsoft has to convince people to write apps
especially for TabletPC, Apple can merely upgrade the relevant Foundation Class
objects w/ pen support et voila! all Cocoa apps are pen apps.
I also suspect that a Cocoa program like NoteBook.app or NoteTaker.app could
become a far more natural and powerful program than Microsoft Journal is
shaping up to be (would someone explain why it's necessary to add OneNote to
the mix?).
--- end of usenet post ---
Apple could do a pen convertible just by engineering a double hinge for the 12" iBook or PowerBook and adding an LCD w/ Wacom digitizer---the software and all is already in place and it'd ``just work''.
With all that said, I doubt Apple will do a tablet anytime soon (though I'd dearly love to see an iMac w/ a detachable display w/ a processor, memory, flash storage, and Bluetooth connection to the base w/ functions as a dual-processor machine when connectd (but apparently bandwidth is still a problem for this?)), so when it was time to buy a new machine recently, rather than wait for the PowerBook G3 my sister is giving my wife, I got a Fujitsu Stylistic.
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
I see many comments questioning the utility of a table PC. Well, I'd love a tablet PC as a replacement of a Wacom style drawing tablet. It'd be very nice to be able to draw directly on the screen onto an image in GIMP rather than onto a tablet seperated from the screen.
If your uid is being tracked, it's not anonymous. Lots of people post lots of things to slashdot as AC only because they believe it is really anonymous. (Dumb thing to believe, but anyway.)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Yuck - wake me up with you have a sub-$100 tablet PC!
This sub-$1,000 computer has been out for a while. Granted it is just barely under $1,000. I'm not sure if it is classified as a true tablet though, since it is actually a convertible with a keyboard (personally I would prefer having a keyboard even if it does mean a litle more bulk). The screen rotates around, a bit like Sony's PDAs, and lays down over the keyboard like a tablet. Looks like a pretty good computer too. Built in web-cam, 4-in-1 card reader, 1 ghz VIA processor, and can support up to a gigabyte of RAM.
V
this is true. i used to troll AC and be a nice guy logged in. after a short while, i could no longer moderate. slashdot does brand AC posts with IP and then map them back to users. they lie about AC, AC doesnt exist if you re-use ip addresses.
big brother is watching. so while i might be a "troll" a lot of the AC things i said were to protect myself from slashbot groupthink. they punished me for voicing my opinion.
they also revoke moderation rtbl its called, for any moderatins of any post that have been secretly flagged annoying. if you mod up something an editor secretly marked annoying you NEVER moderate again, ever.
so AC is a scam here. hitler-malda fucks AC posts in the ass. so now all you can do is go 100% ac, or , as they expect you to, KAM FUCKING WHORE. and its so lame.
Just a sidenote, but that bit caught my attention. Especially since Sager seems to disagree. Not a big brand, to be sure. But they did hit the sub-$1000 price point first. C3-based (1GHz), which won't exactly amaze. It has been out of stock for a while, unfortunately.
Never mistake "can" for "should".
I see it as a combination of monitor, keyboard, and mouse. This way you can have a headless Mac running in the background with a cool-running, thin, relatively cheap portable. If you want to upgrade, you upgrade the box under the desk, not the tablet. This way, cheap people can use it with a G3/G4 as a cheap upgrade, and power users can use it with a G5. If the wireless range is good enough, you could use it to stream DVDs and Web stuff anywhere you wanted to use it.
The problems are (a) it would suck power like a mofo, so you'd have to plug it in, (b) the wireless range limits just how useful it could be before you'd have to start adding expensive, power-sucking, stuff like a hard drive to it, and (c) it you're doing a lot of keyboard entry, you'd want to hook up a keyboard, and probably sit down with this thing propped up like a conventional monitor.
Apple is, if nothing else, all about minimalism and simplicity. A bluetooth keyboard is nice for getting rid of wires that can get in the way when working on a desk (though personally I can live with a few wires to not have to deal with charging hassles) - but a tablet or laptop is portable, and carrying two things around with you that both need charging is neither simple or elegant.
It's not even about the keyboard anyway as far as I'm concerned - I just don't see what area Apple would want to fill here that is not already well-served by the substantial line of laptops and I really don't see what sense it would make streaming HDTV to a device like a laptop for most users, or how it would make my life simpler - it's solving a problem I don't have and I don't see a lot of other people having either.
I could see, someday, Apple introducing a real tablet with a 200DPI display for use in reading books or proofing work (something approaching the resolution really needed to be able to replace paper). But I still don't see where the UWB connection is going to be that much help or very useful.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If you look at this picture: Element Helium then at this one: powernotebooks Sager NP2880 they're a good match. Look at the three buttons across the front on both, along with other little things like the sliver that sticks up to latch the screen corners that is visible when it swivels.
Anyway, they look the same to me, and if it is true, then here are the specs from powernotebooks.com
VIA(TM) Antaur 1GHz Processor
Windows XP Home or Professional w/ ritePen and riteMail
1.25" thick
5.5 lb.
14.1" XGA (1024 x 768) Active Matrix TFT "Touch Panel" LCD Display - VIA CLE266 8X AGP 3D Video Card w/32MB max. user definable (Share Memory Architecture) Video Memory
Data entry by "Touch Panel" Display or Keyboard
256MB PC2100 DDR Memory built-in
(Expandable to 1024 MB)
20GB - 80GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive
Integrated Web Cam
4-in-1 Memory Card Reader Supports SD/MMC/SmartMedia/Sony MemoryStick
Built-in 56k V.90 Modem (RJ-11)
Built-in 802.11b Wireless Networking (Optional)
Built-in 10/100BaseT Ethernet (RJ-45)
No floppy or CD/DVD optical drive built-in
External USB 2.0 24X CD, 8X DVD, Combo 8X DVD/24x10x24 CD-RW, or 2X DVD-R/RW-16x10x24 CD-RW (Optional)
Two USB 2.0 ports
It says 2 hours of battery time. Ick.
--------
It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
here
Also, here is the text from Lycoris' newsletter that was sent out this morning:
Lycoris Fans, Happy Holidays from the hard-working group here at Lycoris. Today marks a great day in the history of the Tablet PC platform. Our new partner, Element Computer is now selling the world's first $999 Tablet/Laptop convertible PC. The Helium 2100 is powered by Desktop/LX Tablet Edition and runs at 1Ghz with 256 MB RAM and a 30GB HD. The screen swivels to become a laptop and a tablet in the blink of an eye. This new Lycoris-only OEM is committed to bringing Lycoris users a top-quality experience similar to what you would expect from a Windows-only OEM. Element Computer has a "No Windows" policy that frees you up from ever having to pay for software from Microsoft pre-installed from the factory. You can read their pre-release here: http://www.elementcomputer.com/999tablet.pdf. This is not a promotional price. The $999 Tablet allows both Lycoris and the OEM to make money and be profitable, while still bringing this wonderful hardware to market at an amazing price. As always, Lycoris is glad to push the envelope and bring technologies that were previously thought of as out-of-reach into the homes, businesses and schools of average people. From all of us here at Lycoris, have a peaceful and pleasant holiday season.
What about the iHub? A sub $400 home server, that streams iTunes and iPhoto to your TV(s), records TV (Tivo-like), acts as an airport base station, and is configurable via an application on your home Mac or via a web browser.
How about a built in Dynamic DNS client (tied into an Apple .mac account)? Have it serve your home web site, with photos of the family.
It'd have "module" support, so third party add-ins could be created. (Want to stream a webcam over the 'net? Buy the new Belkin netCam for the Apple iHub! How about the new Apple ePic. A digital picture frame, showing auto updating photos of the grandkids from iPhoto.)
All of this is quite doable, with the possible exception of the $400 price tag. Apple would want to bump the price for the added value and it probably would get too expensive for the masses.
all your MySQL are belong to us
...it must also have a wacom-type pen screen, the usual laptop stuff like a keyboard, and etc. Such a device will never meet the demands of a desktop user -- there's no point trying to make into one by making it ultra powerful or a sleek little gaming machine. Failure to have near 100% character recognition will relegate the device to the position of an expensive toy without a real use. Interaction between the user and what has been written to the screen must have near zero lag time. Basically, it has to fill the tiny niche between a palm device and a laptop, maybe throwing a fancy art sketching tool into the bargain. The killer applications would tend to be things like writing and drawing on the screen. Absent that, you got dick.
True portability. An etch-a-sketch with which you can read novels, download porno, and watch movies.
Maybe it could cost $500, but any more than that and you might as well drop the portability and just use a desktop.
I've really really tried to use Ink. And I'm sorry, but it sucks. It's caused me the same problems it caused me when it was on the Newton.
Even if I write like an angel, it screws up my words and sentence spacing.
Moreover, I can honestly type a hell of a lot faster (50+ wpm) then I can handwrite or shorthand.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Everyone talks about the mythic Microsoft Tax. But really anyone who develops software will charge a premium for it. That includes the people that have to develop the tablet software since no Linux desktop is really suited to a tablet off the shelf.
You'll just be paying the Sony tax or the Hitachi tax if not the Microsoft tax. Look at the Sharp Zaurus. It uses Linux, no Microsoft tax, yet it's still damn expensive and uses the same processor as everyone else.
If you want to avoid any kind of tax they'd make tablets with no software at all and you could just load SuSE or Debian on it yourself.
They should spend some of their earnings and get better webservers. Until then I wait to see the page.
Tablet computers hold great promise, especially for medical applications
That's a nasty virus! Take two tablet PC's and call me in the morning.
The truth shall set you free!
It was 400 dollars. Not 300. :) It did sound spendy at the time but I got one anyways and have been extremely happy with my purchase.
Joseph?
Consider that x86 technology is cheaper to begin with. And it only gets cheaper, not more expensive. People naturally go for the cheaper price, as long as it does what they want. It's too bad that Mac users can't benefit from hardware competition like x86 users do.
Would be one of the Lamp iMacs with a detacheable pressure-sensitive screen.
The first thought that went through my head when Steve introduced those things was that he was going to pop the screen off. Think about it; the biggest problem with tablets are managing to fit the processing power, hard drive, battery, ram, etc. into a thin enough shell that it feels like nothing more than a thin notebook you write on. I love my Tibook, but as light as it feels for a laptop, it's too generally unwieldy to be a comfortable writing tablet. I don't see you how could make anything more than a very underpowered, annoying laptop trying to fit everything into the screen and ignore all attempts at a keyboard. The point of a useful tablet is not to replace the functionality of a laptop; I can type twice as fast as I can write, and the form allows for a hard drive of useful size, a good video processor, etc. Where a tablet pc comes in handy is a replacement for a sketch pad, or for a system where you're only needing to point and click, like web browsing. These activities don't need good processors and large hard drives, and so current tablets lack both. The problem is that you must justify spending another thousand dollars, the cost of a separate computer, for just these little conveniences. A laptop and a wacom tablet are a much easier investment.
The solution? Leave the hard drive, the main processor, and the video memory where they belong; in the base of that little lamp. And when you want a full computer, leave the monitor in and you got it. But for those moments when you really feel like sitting on the couch and browsing the web (without, I may add, a Titanium oven burning through your pants), you just pop off the display and go sit down. Run everything over 802.11g and a custom version of x11; it's perfectly fast enough over a direct LAN connection for browsing the web. And suddenly, the tablet is not a neat-looking expensive extra, but a very, very cool extra feature of your main system. Tablets with current technology are too "niche" to be really useful or marketable. So don't separate them into their own niche; make the niche a part of an existing system. It's the only situation in which *I'd* ever consider one worth having, at least.
Wake me up when they're twice as good as pen and paper and cost less than three times as much.
:)
Well, I think we would both agree they're already more than twice as good as pen and paper. So we've got that covered.
Now for cost...
100dpi would be more than enough resolution for printing out a replica of handwritten notes or a hand-sketched picture. So we're talking 800x1100 resolution. If we're talking 800x1100x24bit bitmap, it will take something around 2.5MiB to store. However, compressed into PNG it could drop down to somewhere around 1MiB. And compressed to 85% quality JPG it could drop to ~125KiB.
Say you can buy a tablet for $1000 and it comes with 40GiB of storage. That's enough to store 320,000 pieces of electronic paper. With $333, assuming 1 penny per sheet, you would only be able to get 33,300 sheets of paper. With $1000 you could only buy 100,000 pieces of paper, so at this point pen and paper is actually 3x as expensive!
If JPG quality isn't good enough for you, you could afford to go up to PNG quality before you come close to 3x the price.
This is also assuming you don't want to back it up to CDR or DVD. In those cases it's not even fair comparing the prices.
And yes, I do have way too much time on my hands.
What you describe exists, but alas, it runs windows...
t m
And is expensive for basicly a suped-up pda with a terminal services clients.
Look here: http://www.viewsonic.com/products/smartdisplays.h
If they were not quite as expensive, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
Note: They use 802.11b to communicate with the host machine, and I do not know if they will work remotely very well.
If you want to save money, look on ebay for the predecessor to the, the viewsonic 'superPDA' - its basicaly the model 100 (see the business version) airpanel, but with a pda version of CE used instead of a stripepd down version for 'smart displays'.
Oh, and as for a slideshow while they recharge... uhm, I guess a screensaver?
man is machine
Actually, I think that a large screen (12-15 inch) PDA or Pocket PC would meet most needs that people have for tablet PC's. The ability to take notes and wireless access being the most important in my opinion.
The PDA's edge would be the ease of use and the instant on and off. Just add a keyboard and use the Corice Hard Drive or a MicroDrive for storage needs.
A device like this (reguardless of who makes it) would make a good laptop replacement of business people on the go, students or anybody else that need more than a PDA but less than a laptop.
I think I think, therefore I think I am.
http://www.lycoris.com/webservices/iris/
Go to ... http://www.elementcomputer.com/store/ ...
... wtf ?
and get the following error
1226 - User 'elementc_ms2' has exceeded the 'max_questions' resource (current value: 10000)
select value from sessions where sesskey = '597388b28d32bf5c564f4c6c762e350d' and expiry > '1070353754'
[TEP STOP]
Sometimes he's insightful but often he's grasping at straws with his ideas. This is one of the latter sort of times. According to this article which is admittedly a bit dated, tablet sales are above expectations and they expect to sell nearly 600,000 this year. This article while intimating poor sales says that Acer has sold 100,000 by itself this year. Cringley's number seems a bit off. That said, he's also off in his analysis. There's a market for tablet PCs. Every delivery person and every lawyer I've seen lately has one. They are great for taking notes. What they are not good for, is video. Even if you could solve the bandwidth issue, there's the horsepower issue. Displaying HD video is non-trivial. It requires a hefty processor (3.0 GHz would be nice) and a GPU to match. Most Tablet-style PCs will come with underpowered mobile PCs and a graphics card from someone like Trident. Sorry, it's just not going to work.
It might not run on windos, but if you look closely (enlarge the pic), you'll notice the machine still has windos keys on the keyboard.
Seems their "up yours" attitude doesn't go far enough to shelve out an extra 5 bucks for penguin keys or removing them (enlarge space).
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
did anyone else notice that they didn't mention weight at all? Usually the trouble with cheaper laptops has been that they have been quite a strain on your arm and with nothing mentioned about the weight here I'm afraid this one might be, too
Sigs for Nerds. Sigs that Matter.
just buy a Siemens SimPad and put Linux on it with the Opie or GPE GUI. You'll have 8 hours battery run time, 640x480 screen, wireless access (or any PCMCIA card providing connectivity) and a real OS. And no keyboard! :-)
. org
Its price is about EUR 280 incl. TVA. Have a look on eBay.
http://www.opensimpad.org
http://opie.handheld
There are other similar-sized devices on the market, especially in Germany.
Mark
http://www.produktivIT.com
Really cool machine! This is also known as the TDV Vision VS1200XP and as the Advance VX1400 Any others?
How does the performance of this tablet pc compare to say a desktop pc? The site says it has a 1 GHz VIA Antaur processor. Is this as bad as it sounds??
History matters..
that the story's submitter, "penguinrenegade", was at one time known as "RenegadePenguin" on the Lyocris forums and is now a Sales and Marketing employee of the company. Nice bit of astro-turfing.
What I'm wondering is why no one has thought to market tablet PCs to artists yet. Alias makes some fantastic tablet art software, but none of the hardware manufacturers seem to get it. Whose needs are better fulfilled by a tablet PC than an artist? As an artist myself, I'd love to be able to draw directly into my computer rather than having to scan and clean up my drawings. Yes, I have a Wacom tablet, but I really need to be able to see what I'm drawing as I'm drawing it. Gabe, from Penny Arcade got one for exactly this reason.
What I'm hoping is that Apple realises this, they have a long history with artists and designers, and designs a tablet from the ground up with artists in mind (I'm thinking a convertable design, built like an iBook for durability, contoured so it's easy to hold). I also think the OS X gui is damn near perfect for touch screen navigation, or better than XP in any case.
Oh well, just one of the many things that has been on my "I hope someone makes this some day" list for some time.
Mr Cringely must live in a very small house !!
Macka
You pull something along - it can only come towards you.
You obviously have not experienced torque steer, which in some cars (older Saab Aeros) could pull you in directions you did not intend to go. If you have a lot of horsepower (and BMW's selling point is performance), RWD is a good choice.
Interesting outfit. Supposedly rabidly Anti-Microsoft but checking out the Nitrogen laptop specs:
-Communications: 10/100 LAN, 56K V90/V92 WinModem and optional Wi-Fi/802.11b Wireless LAN
WinModem??? Also, try right clicking to copy text from the web site. How odd.
Apple tablet prototype pics here and there! But the best idea is the detachable touch screen that merely lifts off the iMac (the dome base serving as the brains and charging cradle). For completeness, there is also the Cintiq ($3500, and a tether to boot) and the AirBoard (Japanese Flash, sorry, it's the best I could do).
I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
I disagree that the Newton failed due to poor usability. I think it was two other reasons: it was too expensive and it was the wrong size. I used one for years, and found it too big to carry everywhere, yet too small to take as many notes on as my 8.5x11" paper notebook (or even my steno pad).
So now I carry a Palm everywhere, for calendar, phone book, and quick notes, and take a steno pad to meetings, seminars, etc. Actually, I often take my laptop to meetings, too, in case they're boring. I'd love to be able to take a tablet-sized computer, instead, but I want one that was designed for pen-based operation, like the Newton was. (The Palm interface is great for really small devices, but for tablet-sized devices I think the Newton interface is much better.)
The Newton failed because Apple refused to let anyone write software for it. I recall back in the day as a student having to get together with several of my friends to pony up $1000 to get the development kit for the priviledge of writing software for my Newton.
Look at Palm ten years later - it's a toy by comparison, but it has a world of software. It's also cheaper at the low end, but not that much.
Apple could have backed the Newton until it had a footing and created a new market by getting on board with the open source bandwagon earlier than they have.
I applaud them for everything they are doing now and love my Powerbook, but they really screwed the Newton.
Pat Niemeyer
The fact that by default most Palms and PocketPCs don't come with keyboards (unlike older Psions say) proves that they aren't really used for anything other than basic uses like address books (for which they were originally designed of course). Data entry is incredibly slow. So even though there are thousands of apps available they're mostly gimmicks masquerading as productivity tools or games. Tablet PCs seem to be the same thing. You can't even write an email on one at a reasonable speed. Even purely graphical applications go faster with keyboard shortcuts.
I think computing is in a mini-crisis. We can make tools so small that we don't have room to make a human usable user interface of a corresponding size. It seems to me that UI, not CPU power, or disk storage, or RAM, is the big bottleneck with computers. Simply discarding the keyboard doesn't seem like a good solution without a good alternative.
I miss the days when PDAs had semi-usable keyboards. I guess one day I'm going to miss the day when laptops did.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
I have no idea if Apple could or would make a Tablet, but if they did, this is what I would want/not want:
1.Larger than current PDA's and smaller than current Tablets. PDA's are a pain to do quick writing on and Tablet PC's weighing over a kilo are a pain to hold in the crook of your arm. Apple's larget Newton was about right.
2.A high resolution display so that I can write down notes that will be readable just easily as pen on paper is.
3.Fuck handwriting recognition. The only handwriting recognition I need is for the title of the paper.My handwriting, and that of many students, is so illegible to others than no OCR programme on earth can read it, but I can, and that's what's important.
4.An application that works just like an block of paper, where I can just tap a corner to get to the next sheet and back again. Apple had an application like this in the classic Mac OS called notes or something. This should have the ability to save any section of the written/sketched papers as a single file. It should allow basic high res sketching in a few colours as well.
5.An art sketching application that supports natural media like inks (Think Corel's Painter, but not so bloated -- Alias Sketchbook perhaps) and layers for artists who just want to draw and not have to fuck with the computer.
6.Around 20GB of harddrive space like the iPod. i.e. a tiny hard drive.
7.Voice recording.
8.USB or Firewire for Digicam and data transfer.
9.Wireless data sync with a Mac or PC, but easily done like iSync.
And thats it. I wouldn't want a browser or email, but I suppose most would, so make that around 6 applications.
Nice and light, handy and simple, just like that block of paper and pen that always works.
Buying a piece of hardware from a company whose website currently displays - 1226 - User 'elementc_ms2' has exceeded the 'max_updates' resource (current value: 10000) delete from whos_online where time_last_click '1070380061' [TEP STOP] leaves me a little cold. Too bad, I would have liked to look at the tablet.
wait, nevermind - their website situation has improved immensely, rather than the shopping cart software throwing up script errors directly onto the webpage, they now are simply saying that the page is down, but please try later! Looking up their domain shows it is hosted by iPowerweb, which offers $7.95/mo hosting. Question of the day - would you buy computer hardware from an organization that doesn't even run their own webserver, but chooses instead to go with bargain basement webhosting from a podunk ISP? What does this indicate about the quality of the hardware they use?
And a 2-button mouse? X-Windows anyone?
... just for the name alone.
Then again, I intend to be first in line when someone comes out with a cool-looking plutonium credit card...
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
still held at bay by price... I still find $2K+ a lil expensive for an ereader. Don't get me wrong, reading my emails and such with a tablet would be no more or less cool that doing it from a laptop, but what I really see this hardware good for (outside of obvious photoshop-type applications) is an ereader. At their current smaller sizes, it's the perfect electronic replica of large-format paperbacks. Anyone who reads as much as I do can empathize with the desire not to have to hold a 1200 page book and flip pages and do other things. It's a repetitive stress injury waiting to happen. I admit, if it worked, I would miss the sensation of turning the page (adds to the feeling of progressing through the plot) but it would definitely be something I could get over. Plust it would also be great because it would be easier to prop up. Anybody ever use a book stand? They suck! Finally, the software would have to let you highlight and bookmark, as well as search. I think that would just rock. Course, I'm just a geek, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about.
The english language is in beta. It's evolving but has not yet reached a level of usability.