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A Selective History Of The Keyboard
Anonymous Gimp writes "Today's keyboards aren't what they used to be, no sir! Back in my day, we had our BS technology; our keyboards had chassis which allowed 'em to be thrown off a 3-story building and still work - barely dented. Yes those were the days. Now we've got these newfangled Wireless Ergonomic E-Mail button membrane keyboards. To heck with them, I say!"
But, I sure do love their natural keyboards and optical mice. They feel great and they work great, and that's really all they need to do. And the keyboard has USB ports so I can plug the mouse in it! (Yes, I know Apple's had something similiar for years.)
While I don't like the gummy feeling of a lot of keyboards that are apparently trying to be 'soft', I am not exactly a fan of the loud clicky types either.
The keyboard that I've found works best and feels best to me is the original Microsoft Natural keyboard. It is ergonomically designed with no extra frills like app buttons across the top. It's also larger and a little sturdier than the Natural Light keyboards Microsoft is pushing these days with their freaky arrow keys and misaligned Insert/Delete/Home/End/PageUp/PageDown key block.
Microsoft! Do something good for the users! Bring back the original Natural keyboard!
I have been pwned because my
Since i sit in a lazy boy when on my computer I tend to have the keyboard on my lap, and I am very glad its made of light weight plastic. To bad its not wireless:(
keanmarine.com
I read half-way through the article and the site gets slashdotted.
Yessir, back in my day we had these incredible keyboards. I have a VIC-20 keyboard and and Commodore 64 keyboard. Some people claimed they were kind of big, but for keyboards, they were sure packed with features! Like computers! :)
"Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
As long as I have an IBM PC "workstation" keyboard, with the skinny rectangular Enter key and 2 key wide backslash/pipe key above it, I'm happy.
You know, the ones with the steel plates inside? I have 5 of them, 4 in storage, hopefully enough to last the rest of my life. The one I am typing this on is from my IBM AT that I got in 1992. Still going strong..... You can occasionally find them at garage sales(!) and swap meets and such. If you see one, grab it. It is really the best keyboard.
Hi me Ugh, Just finish learn typing... need woman, use 10lb keyboard as club, and cord to tie her up for easy trasport. Key board good idea. And now one understands why the keyboard has progressed along with modern man. Note: this is a joke, I actually would prefer a heavy (but wireless) key board, since I am a klutz.
Yup, the Avant Prime keyboard is the one I use (by Creative Vision Technologies, Inc.)
I even put up with a US layout (have to do ALT 0163 for the pounds sterling symbol).
So it can fall on your toes hard?
I remember with fondness the big old solid metal cased IBM keyboards, I guess the fondness comes from the fact that it was my first pc (well, ok, the companies, but the first one I used). But I would actually much prefer a modern quiet membrane keyboard. I work in an open plan office with desks in clusters of 4, and it's very distracting whne you're trying to pin down a bug and having to think and concentrate but your neighbour is clacking away typing an email (or a slashdot post!) The keyboards we have now are Compaq (well, probably not, but that's what it says on the label) and they are quite noisy when you're typing quickly, and very distracting. My keyboard at home (generic no-name $15.00 membrane keyboard) is much quieter and even has a nicer feel. It has all hose fancy media and internet buttons which I never use, I bought it cuz I needed a new keyboard fats and didn't have much money. I went for the cheapest on the shelf and was actually pleasently surprised.
The other thing I like about mebrane keyboards is that they're very easy to strip down and clean when the accumulated crud from sandwich crumbs and cake bars gets too much!
And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour Isaiah 3:5
while i liked them... my golly ther were LOUD... don't ever think about typing on one of those if somebody is sleeping...
we had a computer lab full of these before (this is the days of Word Perfect 5.1 for DOS) -- when finals came around and people need to write papers you can hear this deafening roar of metali-plastic spring clicking....
so -- durable, fine; but for all practical purposes -- i will stick with the original Microsoft Natural (sorry, but it is the most "ergonomic" i found)... might upgrade to one of those fancy type-sideways ones in the future.
i do think "chord" typing is a good idea (ex: press E,T,S will get you F)... but it just takes so long to learn. one hand operation would be hard, but you can fit a keyboard onto almost everything (i think they should try this for the PDAs and cellphones. have anyone tried the keypads on the SONY NR-70 or the SHARP zauras (sp?) those are tiny and hard (i have stubby fingers). chord-key, though, would work much easier IMHO. sigh... so it probabbly means it wont ever catch on.
last note: as for regular keyboards, DVORAK is really nice. give it a try -- just a couple monthes... you will wonder why other ppl don't use it either.
last last note: (heh i lied) -- the dollar bill he used in the pict must be as old as that keyboard controller... heh... i thought it was kinda amusing.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
For those of you interested in faster and more
comfortable typing I would just like to say that
I have been using dvorak for 4 years and I'll
never go back.
It takes one or two days before you know aproximately whene all the letters are, and then
it's just to start typing (without looking) you'll
have your old typing speed back within a month
and from there it gets even faster.
hans AT anti DOT nu
Not only does the nice click give a good feeling and the ticking of the keys as I type along. But also its strudy and heavy I could use it as a weapon to beat someone with if they were to complain about how loud the keys were at night.
-THIS SPACE FOR RENT!
you might want to ask your facilities personells to invest in better cubicals. i am not joking -- cubes (good ones (ha!)) are supposed to block sounds of typing, and not-too-noisy conversations etc. full-height helps; metal-backed helps; etc.
you can also use this excuse and ask for an office.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
Well, its slashdotted, so you're excused.
But BS = Buckling Spring.
anyone know a good keyboard that DOES NOT KEYBLOCK? Does usb suffer this?
Every logitech (and many generic) keyboards i've tried only allows 2 keys to be pressed on the keypad. Since I use the keypad for my gaming config I've been stuck with the same one for 7 nearly years. Google isnt very helpfull so thats why i'm asking on slashdot.
btw, Starcon2 rules!
my associative arrays can kick your hash - TCL
The zx80 keyboard? Well, it had no keys at all, really - just patches of plastic you had to run your finger over to get the characters to appear on the screen.
Thene there was the zxspectrum keyboard - memorably described as having the texture of the flesh of a dead fish.
My keyboard is full of button (HP internet extensions) which Linux seems unable to use properly - I have tried avrious solutions, but none works well. There is a specific driver for this keyboard too, but it doesn't seem to drive the extra keys AFAICS.
Up until recently, I have been using trusty 'ol IBM PS/2 keyboard. Its trusty mechanical feedback was great, not to mention nearly error-free when working properly. Also, when my high school chucked out its old computers, I was able to salvage about 15 to 20 of these beauties. Nearly all worked perfectly, and those that didn't were not to hard to fix with a solder iron and spare parts.
But recently, my wrists have begun to bother me (probably CTS setting in; and I'm nary 20 years old) and the old keyboards refused to work on my new rig (I probably could have modified one of them to work, but college really cuts out the free time). So I went to Wally Mart Computer Center and picked up this Logitech Navigator keyboard. This is by far one of the best keyboards I have used. Sure, those Mikeysoft Naturals are comfy, but they take up too much space and it is quite difficult to play Unreal Tournament with. The tactile sensation, while softer and not nearly as loud as the PS/2's, has a reassuring, yet subtle "crunch" to it. Not to mention, it has a scroll wheel built in (I use mine to switch apps, it is quite handy), and numerous other handy buttons. All the Ctrl functions are silkscreened on the front side of the keys for handy reference. And it was only $30.
The most unique feature, however, is the zero-tilt design. All of the keys are perfectly flat; normal keyboards "curve up" as you approach the number row, but all the keys on this keyboard are on the same plane, parallel to the desk. I have to say that it takes some getting used to, but in the end it is far more comfortable than a regular "tilted" keyboard. Now if only I can figure out how to get some of these extra buttons and stuff working in Linux.... damn semi-n00b skillz.
While I miss my PS/2's (they are still attached to my other boxes), I would have to say that I am quite impressed with the Navigator. Hopefully this thing will be as durable as the old PS/2's.
--- At my sig, unleash hell.
Well, still quarter to five, and we killed em...
Google Cache
--- At my sig, unleash hell.
Macintosh users also had a great old keyboard upon which to remember fondly: The Barge.
It was big but when you used it you knew that you were using a REAL keyboard.
Touch typists knew the difference.
Of the membrane keyboards I have (I loved the old IBM mechanical things, but they're too loud!), I do prefer my $50 IBM Active Response one better, and it's what I use on my main desktop. But in the other room, I keep a couple of $9 CompUSA branded things. They feel *almost* as good as my IBM, and they're a helluva lot cheaper. Try them out, CompUSA (if you have them in your area), often has a whole pallet of them (I kid you not) stacked at least 3-4 feet high stuck next to the pole at the end of the keyboard isle. They're great for keeping around as spares or got bundling with white box systems.
For me though? I won't be getting rid of my IBM ActiveTouch any time soon. It lacks drain holes, not that it would do well even if it did being a membrane keyboard, but it's firm tactile feedback while still being a quiet membrane keyboard is unmatched by anything else I've used. As a plus, it also has the skinny enter bar with the big slash and pipe key, which I'm sooooo used to now that I can't use keyboards with the other design (my Sun type 4 always throws me off...)
--MonMotha
...with their (equally ancient) Extended Keyboard II. It's just as solid as the IBM stuff (its development codename was 'Nimitz'...), but less noisy. Cost a fortune, though.
I have an IBM 94X1110 Japanese keyboard, and it is absolutely EXCELLENT.
For programmers the layout is excellent - ; and : are on separate keys, and you can map the keys to select between Katakana, Hiragana, Kanji and Romaji to be the shift keys that dissapeared years ago with the Space Cadet keyboard! So, you can have control, meta, hyper and super in E-MACS!
Also, although I prefer to type Japanese in Romaji, and select the Kanji from a list, some people do prefer to use the direct Kana input keys, (nobody I know of does that, though).
Anyway here's a pic if you like to drool over pics of keyboards (the page itself is not so informative unless you speak Japanese). You can probably still buy these things used on ebay... if you use a Mac and have an ADB input (I don't think they have them on the newest ones but I'm not sure) that you don't mind using your keyboard in, pick one up!! This keyboard rules over all others.... I'm so obsessed with this keyboard that I'm considering getting a USB to ADB adapter so I can plug it into my tibook.
Keyboards do matter.
It is harder to find a generic (say VT100-like) keyboard these days. Can anyone recommend a source for a PS2 (or USB) generic, non-MS tainted, non-idiot key infested quality keyboards?
chongo (was here)
The best keyboard I ever used was on a TeleVideo 9220 terminal, a really nice piece of work..
Ahhh bliss.. sadly the keyboard only worked on a TV9220 and frankly there's more to computing these days than VT220 compatible terminals :)
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
Kids of today, don't know they're born, bwah, bwah, etc..
This was meant to be a reply to the main thread; not the c-64 thread. I guess friends shouldn't let friends browse slashdot drunk either.
Hmm, how about a keyboard that I only recently stopped using? Each key is an ALPS switch, no buckling springs or membranes here folks, each key has a switch under it.
:)
I doubt it will ever break
The article is slashdotted already, but since we're on the subject of keyboards...
:)
IBM Model M: Best. Keyboard. Ever. I found two of 'em in a box full of crappy Dell QuietKeys a while back, and was instantly hooked.
Apple Extended Keyboard II: Not nearly as "clack clack" as the Model M, but a very nice feel to a very solid keyboard. Whenever I get around to buying a new(er) Mac, I think the USB keyboard will just stay in the box, while the Extended II gets hooked up with an adapter.
The Microsoft Naturals are supposed to be nice, but I can't stand the look or the feel of split keyboards.
Anyway, that's my list, as if you care.
SIGFEH
Most old timers remember the super loud "clicky" IBM keyboards that were super durable. Their only two disadvantages were the loud noise and their price, but if you want good tactile feedback, you pay the price of added noise. Furthermore, if you want a strong keyboard that will last, it will have to be built out of high quality components and materials. Doing a little research finds that the original technology used in the old IBM keyboards is still around. The technology is called "Buckling Spring Capacitive Keyswitches", and a company called Unicomp long ago bought the technology from IBM. In fact, they still sell those lovable clicky and nearly indestructable keyboards.
There are a few things you need to realize about this technology. It is truely superior to the foam and rubber dome keyswitches used in most mainstream keyboards. The BS capacitive keyswitches last for millions and millions more keystrokes than the other technologies, so buying one of these keyboards is an investment. Not only that, but BS keyswitch technology is more water resistant than the cheaper keyswitch technologies. You can spill your drink into an old IBM keyboard... and as long as you unplug it and let it dry out, it will still work. Other things play into this older IBM keyboard tech. For example, keys sticking or not registering is highly unlikely with the IBM technology, but it happens all the time with the foam keyswitches used in the popular Microsoft keyboards. Finally, touch typing is so much easier with buckling spring capacitive keyswitches as you can feel the click AND hear it.
I highly suggest any self respecting computer user to get one of these keyboards for their house. Just remember the only two drawbacks: noise and price. In every other way these keyboards excel! I suggest the old skool IBM keyboard that Unicomp sells through their Yahoo store.
you can always get a happy hacking keyboard here.
;-)
No more of those sissy windows or CAPS LOCK keys
> The [Sinclair ZX80] had 4KB of RAM (not 4MB, 4KB!).
.5 Mhz Z80 featured both as ZX81 CPU and video processor. The keyboard featured a set of keys for BASIC commands FAST and SLOW to switch off video output and boost the micro's performance.
Hmm. 4KB is probably less than the on-chip buffers found in current PS/2 keyboards.
Wow... back in the days, when a single
The closest current analogy to this is probably the "sleep" key found on laptops!
I fell in love with the tactile clickety-click keyboards while at Uni in the early 1990s - and put up with quite a few people telling me to shut the hell up when I -really- got going on them. Pity. Not that anyone was particularly quiet on the things
Now having a mac with only a USB Pro Keyboard to keep me happy (and with its big fat keys it has its own kind of appeal) I don't have access to anything clickety - anyone know of USB keyboards with 'kick'?
a grrl & her server
Listen kids, back in MY days, we used teletypes. Those keyboards were not for the weak. You had to hammer down the keys. And when one key was down, the other were mechanically locked and could not be pressed. You would hurt your fingers if you tried to hammer two keys at once.
The wonder of the teletype! No electronics. It was all mechanics. Imagine that! And they also had a paper tape reader/puncher which was handy to save your programs if your 100K disk allowance was used up.
)9TSS
Oh yes, the old IBM keyboards. I loved those, wish I had one - no, two, one for home and one for work.
The first computer I had, a Tangerine Microtan 65, had the option of a really good keyboard, and aside from the aforementioned IBM keyboards was one of the best computer keyboards I have ever used.
Modern membrane keyboards range from the barely acceptable to the completely useless. I cannot stand typing on a keyboard that feels like limp wet lettuce, which is what some of the cheaper membranes often supplied with PCs feel like. Ugh! After a keyboard failed at work lately, I had to go through five spare keyboards to find one that I could use.
When I type, I like to feel the keys go down with a satisfying 'clunk', not a soft 'squish'.
Membranes. Hate 'em!
"Information wants to be paid"
Too many of the new keyboards have the capslock key where the control key should be and used to be. Correcting this would make the keyboard more ergonomic. How often does anyone, aside from people writing Nigerian mail scams, use the caps lock? Odds are not as often as the control key, even for MS-Windows users.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Has anyone ever used (or worse still using) modvue keyboards. We used to say that they were made from old tank armour plating as the US army upgraded it's tanks. In reality they were "industrialised" IBM keyboards, with thick aluminium (aluminum for the ex-colonials) bodies/ chasis. these you could run over with a car and they would work I'm sure. They were great for making music with (drumming)!!
At the same time, I alos encountered the sexisest keyboard ever, it came with an industrial IBM PC, and the positive feedback "clicky feel" of the keys was awesome! I bet it wasn't coffee proof though.
These should all be sitting in Saudi somehwere now, assuming the court case about payment was settled.
Anyone think we will eventually move to Dvorak?
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
The odd thing I find is that my typing speed/accuracy changes fairly dramatically on the keyboard I use. My prized keyboards was made by Lexmark for IBM. The blasted thing feels like a hunk of steel and with the springs under the keys it has a beautiful tactility. I get these new keyboards now with their soft keys and it's like my fingers utterly lose track of where they are too be. I wonder if people get conditioned to that dramatic a level to the keyboard they use.
( o ) one could say I'm rather baked
I still my old IBM Model "M" keyboard. I love it... I've done everything to this board (including dropping it from a 4th story window, spilling countless liquids into it, dragging it across the road behind the car, etc.) and it still functions just as well as before. As an added advantage, the keys have caps that you can pry off, so when I made the switch to dvorak, I was able to keep the same keyboard, and not have a bunch of stickers all over the place. You can still buy them off ebay, I've seen them for sale (though, why anyone would want to get rid of one of these things is beyond me)
If you don't like those membrane-type keyboards, have a look at Cherry's G80 series of keyboards.
http://www.cherrycorp.com
The G80-3000 keyboard is about USD 50,- here in Germany. Do I need to tell that all my computers (except for my preario notebook computer) use G80-3000 keyboards?
---
And that is why I got one of these:
MCK-142 Pro
Sure, it costed a lot. On the other hand the things I will use the most with my computer is the keyboard, is it not? Nowadays I'm so used to the keyboard being programmable, I really could not live without it.
Oh, and no friggin' windows keys. Never liked those.
I found a fast warez site: http://warez.it.kth.se
Note Ogun's 6 digit user number - proving Ogun is a NEWBIE - he is REALLY NEW to computers.
Was there ever a keyboard worse than the one that Compaq did with the space-bar split in half, where one half was backspace?
The Happy Hacking Keyboard is about the best new keyboard I've found. Good feel, no extra keys, remarkably small, but keys as big as an old IBM.
From their site:
- NO CAPS LOCK KEY
- NO WINDOWS KEY
- CTRL Key is in Right Position
- Full Size Key Pitch
They don't have any of those cutesy 'Shop on the Web' buttons that link you to long-dead dotcoms or even seperate number pad or arrow keys - this is a keyboard perfect for serious text editing. (Dare I say it? A real man's keyboard!)
If you've ever used one, you probably know what I'm talking about...
Cheers,
Jim in Tokyo
-- My Weblog.
That nonsense about the guy inventing qwerty to slow people down is just a silly myth... read the truth!
http://home.earthlink.net/~dcrehr/myths.html
It makes no sense. It is awkward, inefficient and confusing. We've been saying that for 124 years. But there it remains. Those keys made their first appearance on a rickety, clumsy device marketed as the "Type-Writer" in 1872. Today the keyboard is a universal fixture even on the most advanced, sophisticated computers and word processors electronic technology can produce.
.
How could we get stuck with something so bad?
.
In this case, the answer lies in the old proverb about the early bird catching the worm. As far as the typewriter keyboard is concerned, being first was the whole ball game.
we used to run them through the dishwasher when they got too dirty - and they would work fine afterwards.
reminds me of an urban legend/ it horror story about some IT guy telling some chick that she needed to clean out her machine and she ran it through the dishwasher.
Something loud and clicky will do. Bonus points for a lack of Windows keys and super nifty email and internet buttons. IBM, Zeos, and old Keytronics rock.
Here
:-)
I pity anyone who mods this obviously karma whoring post higher than (3, Informative), though
No sig to see here. Move along.
I think the author of the article has hit it on the proverbial head though, they don't make them like they used to. I got my first PC about 12 years ago, some cheap clone. The keyboard that came with it was not IBM's, but it looks like a spitting image of the one on the top of the first photo of the article. It's a loud bastard, but the thing is still working.
;-)).
I've seen many a keyboard break apart, but that sucker simply refuses to die. Sure, it's a bit on the loud side, especially during those long nights, but the typing feel is excellent and it is still as good as new (I used to throw it against the wall when I got angry at Tetris
As for the more recent keyboards, I'm quite happy with my standard Toshiba keyboard. It's one of the membrane thingies, but still has enough resistance to give me a nice typing feel.
My own review of the IBM 42H1292 and related 'boards is here, in case anybody cares.
The Virtually Indestructible Keyboard caught my eye last week. Basically its a sealed silicon mat with raised keys, you can fold it/roll it/douse it/etc. An interesting option for wearables.
It's nice and silent, but I've been using it for over a week and haven't been able to get up to speed. Main gripes: the keys require too much pressure, and they seem spaced too far apart. Someone else may be interested, though.
As far as layout goes, the Amiga keyboards rock! They place the system options keys "Amiga keys" next to the space bar where they should be and there is actually a help key. Of course the Amiga OS knows how the use those keys far more efficent than Windows can use it's Windows keys. On the Amiga, left key is for global system hot keys and right is for app short cuts. But when it comes to physical construction, nothing can beat the Omni Key Ultra keyboard. I could kill someone with it. Plus when you press a key, you know it's been pressed. Since that keyboard supported the Amiga, although somewhat buggly in faster Amigas, it combined the best of both keyboards. -Tekoneiric-
*It's not what you can do for the Dark Side but what the Dark Side can do for you!*
re: ... hands sort of float over the keyboard and move back and forth
never learned to touch type
I had the same problem when I got my very first split keyboard, but after a couple of weeks I mostly got used to it and am now a convert, although I do still occasionally go for the "y" key with the left hand etc., and they do slow down one-handed typing considerably (ie if you're on the phone, or using the mouse)
A trivial solution for us untrained typists would be for split keyboards to be manufactured with the middle columns of keys duplicated, so that for example both the 6 and the 7 keys would be available for both the left and the right hands. It doesn't sound like a difficult thing to do, apart from increasing the seperation of the two keyboard halfs slightly, but I've not yet seen such a device
One could try taking this to an extreme and purchase two non-split USB keyboards and use one for each hand! (If anyone has tried this I'd be interested to hear whether its worth it or not, I don't have any USB keyboards available to give it a go)
Sadly it was a geocities.com page and overloaded the file transfer limit pretty quickly.
IBM PS/2 Keyboard Modification For operation with some newer Pentium 4 motherboards
Most of the newer Keyboards are merely crap. Not heavy enough, too small space-bars, drop them on the floor and they are broken...
Still not all of them suck:
I got my hands on a brand-new SunBlade machine at work. The Keyboard has at least as good feel as my favourite 15-year old Cherry Keyboard at home. Nice, heavy case, some (but not too many) extra keys on the left hand side (and these are keys, not some small rubber buttons...)
And it has USB too...
Every time I get a new box my wife insists on moving the IBM keyboard to it. She is a touch typist and swears that any other keyboard slows her down.
It certainly has been a reliable old workhorse.
Anyone here remember the Atari ST keyboard? :)
(Heck, the whole computer was the keyboard
It ranks as #1 on my list of worst keyboards ever,
my 520ST was terribly mushy, and it wasn't even a membrane keyboard either.
I seem to recall that back in the day, you could buy replacement spring-sets to stiffen the thing up: It was that bad.
Atari still rules, though!
had a lovely keyboard.
That was classic intercourse!
I love the touch of the Apple Pro Keyboards. But the thing is, after a few weeks of heavy use (I mean strong and fast typing), the key feel is getting harder and harder. Plus they are not cheap thus buying a new one every month is not an option. They are crappy membrane keyboards just like every keyboard designed these days, though...
Those guys have bought all of the spare parts and machinery from IBM/Lexmark:
http://www.pckeyboard.com
The IBM Buckling Spring is by far the best keyboard I have ever used. And the noise is a feature, once you start typing 10-20 cps.
Go get one, while they still make them.
I'm still using my old IBM keyboard that came with a desktop I got second hand 5 years back.
It's been abused, fused, mis-used, had beer, tea, coffee,pizza and soda spills and cleaned a few times, but is still rock-solid !
The old desktop box is now a firewall, the 14" IBM monitor is on my devbox.
So what's the deal these days ?
Are there any good quality keyboards available anymore, or do they all suck ?
The same applies to most the cases (available where I am anyway) - cheap and nasty metal that cuts your fingers - bleh !
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
Apple laptops are effectively unusable for unix users.
I am a long-time Unix user. That means I need to have the Ctrl key to the left of the A key. This is a genuine need , not merely a want; it is based upon ergonomics. The Ctrl key is heavily used in unix, and it must be easily accessable. It cannot be off in the lower left corner of the keyboard where it is difficult to get at, and where it distorts the position of your left hand such that you can't easily type other keys while holding the Ctrl key down.
Apple desktop keyboards are now all USB. They are all OK. The CapsLock key can be re-mapped into a Ctrl key.
Unfortunately, even in this modern age, all Apple laptops have built-in ADB keyboards. The ADB keyboard is broken-by-design. It is, in general, not possible to remap the CapsLock key into a Ctrl key.
There are some exceptions, but they are horrible kludges. They are horrible kludges because the original design of the ADB keyboard was a horrible kludge. The correct solution would be for Apple to re-design their laptop motherboards to use built-in USB keyboards. This hasn't happened yet. If you run Linux, use Debian's solution. For Mac OS X users, uControl claims to work. There are no solutions (that I know of) for either NetBSD or OpenBSD. Please note once again that the "solutions" above are in fact kludges, because of the original bad design of the ADB keyboard.
Apple is (currently) ignoring Unix users! This is not merely speculation on my part. In an on-going email exchange I am having with an Apple employee (whom I won't name) in their marketing department, the Apple marketing person directly stated to me that Apple was catering to their historic Mac customers, and is purposely ignoring the Unix market. He also claimed that Apple would soon start paying more attention to the Unix market. I won't hold my breath. Apple has been ignoring Unix users for more than 10 years. I expect that trend to continue. (Also note that my Apple contact indicated that Macs would never ship with a 3-button mouse, even though Apple intended to port almost all X-window software and deliver it either on a CD/DVD or installed directly on each Mac's hard drive. How Unix friendly is a 1-button mouse with X programs that often require 3 buttons?)
Apple has now lost two opportunities to sell me hardware. I really wanted an Apple laptop for their superior battery life, and for the PowerPC with Altivec CPU. (The Altivec is vastly superior to the x86 line for DSP.) Because I can't live with the broken-by-design built-in ADB keyboard in all Apple laptops, Sony and IBM sold me laptops instead. If Apple fixes this problem, they will sell me a PowerBook next year; if they don't, I'll still be running OpenBSD on x86 hardware, and wishing I could use a Mac.
Apple Laptop Hardware Managers: I'm not the only unix user out here. Are you listening?
There have been a number of posts complaining about how they have a new keyboard and it doesn't work in Linux. Well, though the Keyboard HOWTO doesn't mention it, these new keyboards work without modification to the standard X setup. That is to say, when you press an "internet" key, the X server recognizes this and recieves the scancode. All you have to do is map that scancode to a useful key, and presto, you have a functional internet keyboard.
Step by Step:Keyboard evolution seems to be similar to calculator evolution -cheaper ( yes, cheap...), multiple-function buttons, and jazzy looks...... but not to the extent of specialty markets! programmers, graphic artists, gamers, businessmen, stock-market fiends,CAD specialists, and the inevitable Linux keyboard...complete with a little penguin button I am sure of a set of niche markets...... SPECIALTY keyboards!! For programmers: extra keys, programmable for the C/C++ crowd and the colons, pipes, and the above-128 ASCII codes.... For graphics people: an RGB "mouse touchpad", layer functions, filter functions........ And what is it about the stupid keyboard and mouse connectors? Cheesy! Easy to knock loose, in the back of the machine, they flex on the motherboard...... and the da** MS OS wont allow connection to be broken so it wont work unless powered down, jiggled, then rebooted! ( reboot, sounds like MS ! I don't know about Linux, but I suspect the same sort of programming.... or is this a BIOS/Hardware problem?) I'd also like a joystick with a mouse switch/connector so I can use the joystick as a mouse ( programmable buttons ! throttles! x-y positions! should be easy! ) And why isn't the CMOS/Bios settings available to the OS to change? I might like to disable a drive or port while installing software, or to change the equipment attached to it..... ( hot swap for the personal PC isn't recommended, since the design engineers aren't allowed to spend time to actually design the things properly) Standardized connectors, properly labelled for the speaker connection, PWRON switch, Reset switch, HD LED connectors, so I dont need a magnifying glass to make the connections to the motherboard! Cases! hard to open, no room to get a hand in for connectors, not enough flow-through ventilation, poor mounting designs for the Hard drives...... Ideas and gripes, just like a programmer!
The thing with qwerty that bothers me the most is that it requires my fingers to dance over the keyboard all spidery, while dvorak only forces me to move my fingers once or twice per word. I worked as a translator one summer, typing all day long. After a while, my finger began aching. That's when I seriously began thinking of switching.
Look: some economic students want to badmouth dvorak and promote qwerty for some rather silly reasons having to do with economic theory. I don't care about that.
I've used qwerty for twelve years before I switched to dvorak. Now I use both (nothing but dvorak on my own computer, though). The switch wasn't that easy, but it was worth it. It took me a few days to learn it properly. (One of my friends learned it in one evening, though - she wrote freakishly fast almost right away.)
More and more people are hearing of dvorak from the internet or their friends, and some of them switch. I know several people IRL (living in my town) who uses dvorak. In the typewriter age, switching to dvorak is a difficult and expensive task. In the computer age, switching is a manner of typing "setxkbmap dvorak" in the nearest xterm. (Have an image of the new keyboard layout on your screen, and look at it instead of at the keys. Keep the fingers on the home row. If you like it (it takes about a month to be good, though), you can mod your keyboard or get a special one.)
Dvorak isn't the be-all and end-all of keyboards, but I think it's an improvement on qwerty, just as qwerty was an improvement on the abcde-style layouts before it.
Dvorak won't miraculously cure your RSI (although it did help against my finger-aches) or make you become the fastest typist in the world (although the fastest typist in the world did use dvorak).
I don't know about anyone else but my favorite was always the old Northgate Omnikey keyboard on my old 486. There was absolutely nothing special about the layout or the design and it was completely based on the original IBM keyboard layout (with a large key for the slash button).
What was really great was the incredible feel of the omnikey. If you typed really fast, you would understand exactly what I mean. It had such a high response rate that when you held down a key to do a keyboard repeat, it litterally blew 4 lines of characters across the screen in a second. (As opposed to all the other keyboards I've used that only do it about 8 seconds.) It may seem odd to like a keyboard for being able to do something silly as an ultrafast keyboard repeat rate...but then again, I KICKED everyone's ass in DOOM..... (Of course as soon as they found out why I was able to run circles around them 4 of my friends went out and bought the same keyboard...ahh....rivalry!)
A couple of years ago, I obtained one of the Happy Hacking Keyboards, hoping it would lead to keyboard nirvana. Alas, it didn't.
The Happy Hacking Keyboard has a Sun layout. This is great if you are used to the position of the BackSpace key on a Sun keyboard; it isn't good at all if you are used to the PC keyboard layout with the '|\' key directly above the Enter key, and the BackSpace key directly above the '|\' key.
I have asked PFUSA to make a keyboard with the PC layout with respect to the BackSpace key, but having the Ctrl key in the right place. So far, they haven't. For now, I'll stick with my stash of IBM Model M keyboards, and re-program the CapsLock key.
If you aren't sure that you like the Sun keyboard layout, you might not like the Happy Hacker's Keyboard either.
Recently, I searched for a new keyboard, one that didn't have any freaking internet keys, screwy arrow keys, tiny backspace, or mushy response.
I decided on a KeyTronic. It's "old school." No junk. Full size keys. Cheap too. Twenty-something bucks.
This site has a detailed guide on how to modify the I/O PCB to allow the Pentium 4 motherboard to comply with the keyboard.
Yeah the keyboard is probably the most important, yet often overlooked, part of your computer.
Codeala - Just another mindless drone
The feature you're looking for is called rollover. If you google for "rollover keyboard" you'll find plenty of keyboards that advertise multi-key rollover.
FWIW, I just checked my Microsoft ergo keyboard and it'll accept up to 5 key presses before I have to release a key.
I brought it home for work yesterday (with permission).
It came with a Compaq ES40 server. It's black, has the keys on just the right angles, and it doesn't have those pesky windows keys (being a FreeBSD user, it's not like I need them). It also doesn't use up my minimal desk space with things I don't need, like volume/multimedia/etc controls.
I've always had a distinct preference for "clicky" keyboards, but this one has changed my mind. It has a soft feel and it's very quiet, but it feels fantastic.
Pity I had to order a $AU 130,000 server to get it...
As the article states, new buckling spring keyboards are available. This is the company that bought the design of the original IBM PC keyboard. The equivalent model is the "Customizer" for $49. Not a bad deal for those of us who hate crappy $9 membrane keyboards. Just don't type while your spouse is trying to sleep...
FWIF, another company with great, although expensive ($150), programable BS keyboards.
That's too bad. My shareware keyboard macro program, mgSimply, allows you to use the Windows key as a modifier key. The benefit is the key significantly increases the number of keyboard macros you can have.
If you use Windows XP,NT, or 2000, you'll need this patch.
The Avant Prime and Stellar keyboards (mentioned elsewhere in this thread; see the CVT web site for details) were evidently designed by the folks who did the Northgate Omnikey, and judging by a review I read, share its sturdiness. (The key reprogramming software runs under Windows; no word as to whether it will run under WINE.) Rather pricey at $150, but if you're at your keyboard a lot, it might be worth it.
I just bought 10 real honest to $legal_notional_higher_power IBM model "M"s off ebay for $5/ea, shipped. Of 5 Unicomps i bought in 98, new, only the one on the "idle" terminal is still functional. ... all hail ibm "M"
They have so managed to insinuate themselves into the computing landscape that it takes special work to buy an Alpha with a standard VT100 keyboard layout rather than one designed for Microsoft. Certainly anyone who makes extensive use of the Control and Escape keys hates the layout Microsoft has foist on the world.
And it gets worse! I found I could not install Windows NT without using a keyboard that included the otherwise useless F1-Fhowevermany keys across the top. Why do I get the feeling that Microsoft employs no touch typists ?
Yeah, let's hear it for smaller keyboards!
I was quite happy with the keyboard provided with my Mac Classic II. It felt right, and only had the keys I really needed. The Mac was designed for heavy mouse usage, and the keyboard reflected that attitude.
I don't really want the whole row of function keys on my home computer (at work it's different: I store all of my macros up there). Desk space is a minimum, and a reduced-size keyboard and a Wacom Graphire are perfect for my cluttered home desk.
I never had a chance to try out those "chording" keyboard replacements, so I can't comment on those. Pity. They seemed like they could have been small, comfortable and fast - once you passed the learning curve.
I too love the IBM Model M and will use nothing else. You can usually find them on ebay for 1-3 bucks. Best deal out there.
Also, I don't know the type, but I have a couple that have the older five prong interface. I can see the back of my computer in a few years:
5 prong > ps/2 > usb > new thing
that's a lot of adapters!
I just got this banner ad when I went to that page...
I like how that advertising touches two people.
Column A: Wants to be pure and ethical, and doesn't want kids getting involved in the wrong thing.
Column B: Doesn't want to lose even the smallest bit of porn. What if I saved in the wrong directory!
God spoke to me
.. can use this one[pdf] :-)?
Alison
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." - Albert Einstein
I feel that its probably the fierce competition and the fact that many dont give a rats *** if their keyboard is a pain to use or not. Maybe it doesnt matter when you only use the index finger? Im anyway sitting with my old trusty Keytronic, an aux-ps2 adapter and a heck of a keybd compared to the ones offered today. I tried a new and gave it away. Couldnt stand that the keybd actually gave way when i typed fast enough.
HTTP/1.1 400
based on a previous keyboard article/discussion here, I was able to find an IBM "clicker" keyboard for my now pure ibm desktop. No microsoft key, satisfying BANGring BANGring BANGring while typing. I learned on manuals, I hit keys HARD, ahhhh, this keyboard is sweet!
I still suck typing, make just as many mistakes, but it feels better and is more fun! Ya ought to hear it if I get enthusiastic and am typing a rant! Sounds like a "thompson" keyboard!!! HAHAHA!
Bind keys and key Maps are probably the single most usefull thing about keyboards. (apart from their ability to type =-)
Sounds confusing ? try putting a little bit of card over the top of your keyboard with the combo's , and changes on.
Christ mate I cant belive that you type 5 charachters for a pound symbol !
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
It's difficult to beat a Maltron keyboard for comfort. But they're not cheap. Not at all.
:-)
:-)
The Amiga 2000 keyboard was great in its day. Shame it's completely incompatible with anything else
One thing the Amiga got right was the provision of a key marked "HELP" in big letters, and the positioning of the control key. I think the numeric keypad may have also had brackets and maybe an equals sign... which helped a lot...
Hey, how about a keyboard with LCD screens on the keycaps - _really_ switch to dvorak at the touch of a button
This site is dedicated to the one and only real PC keyboard. Quoting from it: Geeks will debate about the best keyboard in existence long after the sun supernovas. I happen to really like the IBM Model M. The fact that I have collected more than two dozen of the keyboards is testament to that. Or that I am clinically insane.
I have six of them: two at work, one at home, three spares (not that I think I'd ever need them, given the amount of abuse these babies can take, but I don't want to take any chances).
"There are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare." - Blair Houghton
for some bloody keyboard.
Particularly when I can get brand new 104 key jobs for just US$5. Which means buying half a dozen at oncee. So every time someone (including myself) spills a cup of tea, a beer or a Bourbon & coke on a keyboard, I can throw it out (or they can take it home, clean it out & keep it) & just pull a new $5 keyboard out of the cupboard for them.
People who spend $100 for a keyboard that will get coffee spilled on it within 4 months or whatever, are crazy.
though, why anyone would want to get rid of one of these things is beyond me
I got rid of mine when I gave away my PC XT in a long-distance move about six years ago... and yes I feel like a complete fool. I never realized how much I would miss that keyboard. Should have saved just the kb.
> our keyboards had chassis which allowed 'em to be
> thrown off a 3-story building and still work -
> barely dented.
Yes, theeeeese newfangled wireless ones won't survive the fall, but at least you can still use them on the way down!
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Been buying every surplus IBM Keyboard I can find at work - they only want $5 each for them. They are getting rare though as I have been only able to score three so far. Just love these things. The feel, the sound, the weight, the durability. You can crack walnuts with them that still go on and type stuff. Oh yeah, and the letters printed on the keys do not wear off - unlike a certain other monopolistic company's ergo keyboards.
-- Spammers: My E-mail server is in California. Consider yourself warned.
I used to work in an entirely-NeXT office. The NeXT keyboards were fantastic. They were heavy and had really great tactile key action -- without the loud clicking of the old IBMs. Unfortunately, they only worked on the NeXTs.
I'm using an IBM mini with a TP eraser pointer. It works nice. The key travel is not squishy but not long either. Like a Thinkpad really. And the eraser pointer is nice. It has it's own PS/2 mouse port in, so I plug in a Marble Mouse and switch off between Eraser and Marble.
I also have a mini (no keypad) w/o no Eraser but w/ standard 'click' travel PS/2 keys.
I also have a standard size with an Eraser but w/ standard click.
I also have 3 Soft Touch that are whisper quiet.
-all IBM KB's
BTW there are companies that make lefthand keyboards and keyboards with detachable keypads that be attached on the left or right or made free.
I liked the Happy Hacking compactness but felt that they were taking advantage of people at what, $70?
Was a PCXT 10 function button down the left side. It was STEEL and you could sled on it or bash someone's head in. Almost as heavy as the unit on a 3279. Then I had a PCAT with the 'standard 12/24 function keys across the top. Still STEEL. It weighed almost as much as small notebook machine.
I used to collect keyboards. I have seen quite a number of them, inside and out. I collected about 30 or 40 of them, and then dissassembled all of them. I trashed all but two of them. The one was cool looking... the other is the one I use: an original Omni Key / 101 keyboard by Northgate Computer Systems. These are the best keyboards. These use independent ?solenoid? switches for every single key. You can press down any combination of keys, and the computer will recognize the combo. Modern keyboards glitz after you hold down about 5 keys. Some 3 key combos won't even work. If you play games a lot, you would know this... Why anyone would use a modern keyboard is beyond my comprehension.
uControl does work, at least on some machines, but having the caps lock led still toggle is annoying.
I don't like it either, but I don't think that it is brokenness, just bad design. Apple didn't originally design ADB keyboards for Unix. Nowadays, even machines designed to run Unix mostly don't have the ctrl key in the right place.
Oh and AFAIK the "correct" ctrl placement was originally more of a DEC thing than a Unix thing in general.
Yes, I have one also, and guarantee there is no better keyboard... take it apart one day and you'll see why; It has independent switches for each key! None of this grid connection nonsense with membranes. Key combos using any number of keys can be done on the keyboard. All other keyboards glitz after holding down several keys at once...
IMHO the best keyboard in the world is the genuine IBM buckling-spring keyboard as used in IBM PS/2s.
I've tried many different keyboards, and nothing beats the IBM. The reason is the positive feedback as soon as the key registers. Other keyboards are mushy - they have no "feel" when the key is pressed, or very little, but the IBM keyboard provides increased resistance just before the key fires, and decreased resistance after. I have done tests on other keyboards and found bad behaviour like the key fires without feeling any feedback.
Sure the IBM is noisier than other keyboards but the feel makes a lot of difference to an impatient geek who needs to get those keystrokes entered ASAP! I get a good feel for if I'm typing the right thing whether I am looking at the screen or the keyboard or somewhere else entirely.
Pricey, but heavy and built solid. http://www.cvtinc.com/. The Stellar, with extra F-keys down the side, is a disappointment: I wanted extra keys, but the side F-keys send the same codes as the top F-keys. They have a Windows program to change key codes, but won't release the protocol and aren't interested in anyone writing a Linux version ("somebody else wrote it; we just re-sell it").
Infuriate left and right
Have you ever used one of the old-style typewriters? I have. Hitting any two keys within a very short period of time caused the mechanism to jam, as the doodads that bashed the character through the ribbon got tangled up. The engineers of the day designed (and re-designed) the keyboard to short-circuit the hot-shot lightning typist ladies (I'm not being sexist, they were mostly female) to allow those doodads to fall back into place (mostly by gravity) before the next one hit the platten.
Once again I blame M$ for these new keyboard designs. I was totally happy (and still am) with plain keyboard design until around '95 first versions with windows(tm) keys came in to stores. Damn I hate those windows(tm) buttons, they make SPACE smaller and move ALT to wrong place. Nowadays it's almost impossible to find keyboards without windows(tm) keys and my guess is that in five years all you can get is multimedia-natural-wireless-silent-etc keyboards.
Spilt coffee into my Microsoft Natural Keyboard and two keys stopped working.
So I tried to wash it.
Now all the keys don't work.
I feel compelled to point out i've been typing pretty much every day for the past 10 years. I dont' do that home-row nonsense.. my fingers float over the keyboard, my hands move a lot, my writs stay straight usually, as my 'angle of attack' is crooked. I've completely stopped thinking when i type, so, obviously, it works. And i can go at about 90 WPM.
It messes me up to no end when i get on the "natual" keyboards.. they cramp my style, and my wrists.
How old is your keyboard?
a) new
b) 1-2 years
c) 3-4 years
d) 5-8 years
e) 8-10 years
f) >10 years
g) Keyboard? I use the Apple CowboyNeal Lightpen!
Believe it or not, I'm typing this on the same Northgate Omnikey 102 I bought twelve years ago - in December, 1990!
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
The article erroneously propagates the urban legend that QWERTY was developed to slow typists down. The QWERTY design was developed to prevent jamming by placing most often used keys at opposite ends off the board. Prevent jamming != slow down.
The Economist ran an article in April of 1999 about the various studies comparing the layouts. Very minimal, if any, advantage to Dvorak.
I found that PCKeyboard does still provide the old IBM BS keyboards, and they even promise to deliver soon 105 (non-English) keys layouts with the stick!
Too bad there's nor Brazilian Portuguese neither Swiss French layouts, and those are the ones I'm after.
I would like to get a layout that once was created specifically with the same goals as the Dvorak one, but tailored for Portuguese…
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
The fact that Dvorak was biased has been covered before.
The myth that Qwerty was designed to slow-down typists is not quite correct. This paper provides an accurate (and scientifically peer-reviewed) history of the keyboard:
Yamada, H. (1980) A historical study of typewriters and typing methods: from the position of planning Japanese parallels. Journal of Information processing, 2(4), pp. 175 - 202.
I got one when I bought my G4 so I could use my Apple Adjustable Keyboard, which by my experience is the only "ergo" keyboard to have. Unfortunately the left Command key died, and it's hell to use without that.
I highly recommend the Macally iKey: full-size keys and no extra "internet" keys or other crapola.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
http://207.139.42.198/articles/keyboard/keyboard.h tm
BTW: Welcome guys :)
- The Esc key is in a place where you can reach it; how the heck are you gonna use Vi w/the Esc key way up in the corner of the keyboard?
- The Control key is also in a more practical place; you have to use it all the time for Emacs and shell work.
- Having the Backspace/Delete key right above the Enter key is actually more natural, since you don't have to move your hand out of the way to reach, and since it's one of the keys you use most frequently.
- You also need the Backslash|Pipe and Grave|Tilde keys for coding and scripting, and on the Sun layout they're in reasonable locations
It's really difficult to perform Unix operations on a regular PC keyboard, because of the placement of the keys. Control and Esc are really not used all too much in a Windows environment, so moving those keys out of the way to make room for others makes sense--and since most Desktops are running Windows, it's obvious why standard keyboards have this layout.Ever since I started using Linux I've thought that the keyboard layout is going to have a surprising lot to do with making Linux mainstream. Of course if you use GUI's full-time, the keyboard won't matter so much, but to get people to use the command-line--which I think needs to happen if Linux is going to make it--a layout like Sun's has to find its way into the mainstream too.
that's what i figured; -- not the UK part, but the office layout you are probabbly at.
FYI, japan is almost exactly the same way... so you might feel at home working there.
i personally don't think that it's a good idea -- i mean, cube farms in the US is lame and all, but i would still prefer fake walls than half-height, see-your-neighbor-pick-his-nose situations.
maybe there is a "thinking room" you can goto with a laptop for the "thinking times"...
My life in the land of the rising sun.
I believe he chose the layout to SPEED UP typing. I mean, do you know how slow you type when you have to untangle hammers all the time???
Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
thinking rooms? laptops? man-speak-foreign-tongue.
This building houses a couple of thousand people on 5 floors. there's 4 meeting rooms on each floor, ech holding a maximum of 10 people...
Only Senior Managers are Important enough to have laptops - and even if I were a PHB, and managed to aquire a laptop, and find a spare(ha!) meeting room - theres no network jacks in the meeting rooms.
We're a FTSE 100 company, the offices are a joke!!!
And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour Isaiah 3:5
I've got one in storage, and whenever I pull it out I'm dismayed at what I put up with back then.
ROC
Gotta have one of these!
A few of those original keyboards are still in use, twenty years later.
I've seen a web page of a guy that's done this - he cut the two keyboards apart, and has them taped to the side of his chair, so that his arms hang down by his side, and rest on the keyboards :-)
Sorry - can't find the link. I think he did it because he had RSI/similar problems.
Tim
A great thing about the IBM Model M is that you can pop the letters off the keys and re-arrange them quite easily to a new layout.
signature not found
I hate those keyboardss that have the soft power button where Pause Break was. I can't forget working for 2 long hours and sudde
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
If you use emacs, the ESC and CTL keys should be in the correct place. That correct place is, ESC next to the 1, CTL where most PC kbds place the capslock key. How can this be resolved?
1) Sun's have the correct layout
2) Happy Hacking Kbd works well but is a tad too small for me (although I own one).
3) The Maxiswitch MaxiPro2 kbd. This was a great kbd, I have 2, one at work one at home. What is great about this keyboard is any pair of keys can be swapped, i.e. ESC and ~, CTL and CAPSLOCK. (the capslock on the maxiswitch is a non spring locked key). The only thing is that CTL has CAPSLOCK written on it. Confuses people that come to use my kbd.
Hedley
If you punched a card that was all holes, did it get stuck? That is the real test of a card punch :-)
The company got absorbed by Micron, true, but a ca. 1990 Zeos keyboard is every bit the keyboard a Model M is. Well, okay; it doesn't have drainholes (great idea!) or interchangable cables but it feels great to type on and could probably pass the 3-story test. I've got one stored away in a closet; I switch back to it when whatever my latest keyboard happens to be decides to crap out.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Am I the only one who likes typing on a Laptop? I've got a standard Dell C600. The lack of a keypad is a downside, and for gaming there would be issues, but for sitting down and typing a letter, or for coding, I love it. The tactile feedback is great, and your fingers don't have to move much.
I've been looking for a specific keyboard for a long time, and the PCKeyboard "Customizer" is close, but is not USB. Basically, I have these requirements, in order of priority:
* key layout with the backslash ABOVE the enter key... top row after the equals is fine, but second row after the close bracket is acceptable. Fourth row after shift is NOT.
* USB
* clicky
* No windows keys.
Or, if there is some way to convert AT/PS2 keyboards to USB, then I'd just get that customizer and the adapter... I don't even know if that's feasible, so I haven't been looking for the adapter.
If anyone has any idea where to look, that's be great, I'll keep scanning the comments, though.
-If
Run a pencil-and-paper RPG campaign with your far-off friends: Gametable!
For a while a company called Maxi Switch made IBM-branded keyboards that were just like the model M, except that they were black and have a built-in TrackPoint. It also has a PS/2 mouse port on the back, so you can switch between the two depending on what you're doing. I know a lot of people aren't fond of the TP, but for those that are, this is probably the ulitmate keyboard. The FRU# is 13H6710, but I don't know as though you can get new ones anymore. Mine isn't for sale ;)
and since most Desktops are running Windows, it's obvious why standard keyboards have this layout.
It really had nothing to do with that, the way I understand it. IBM based the more-or-less current PC keyboard off the IBM Selectric electric typewriter. I can vouch for that for the most part, we still use Selectrics where I work for typing up things that don't translate easily to computers, like forms people send in.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
I used to use my C64 as a linux terminal, until I realized that there was no '@' above the '2' (there's " there instead), making it very difficult to send e-mail. I'm sure there's a way around it, but with the C64's horrible screen resolution, it wasn't worth it. Back to Speed Racer.
One of my standard quips when talking about assisitve technology (AT) and alternative input (including -- among other things -- voice recognition, one handed keyboards, head operated mice, etc.) is that we are using computers that are optimally designed for beings with three hands. Two hands on the home row, simultaneous with your dominate (usually right) hand on the mouse. Moving from home row to mouse wastes time, but the keyboard and mouse, when considered in isolation from each other, are each very efficient and comfortable.
The solution won't be in any of the AT I've seen and Star Trek doesn't even offer a clue. The input device of the future will build on the QWERTY layout all of us have invested so much time with, but won't require this archaic predisposition, and be at least as "intutive" as the mouse for GUI functions. But it won't require a break to go from keyboarding to mouse and will not imply that we should have two right hands. Can anyone here imagine what this interface might look like?
I can vouch for that. My hands have been bothering me after working at the office using a generic Compaq keyboard, but I can go home and work on my Avant Stellar for hours and not have any trouble whatsoever. I'm using the misnamed ctrl2cap utility to map the caps lock key to a control key on my work keyboard, which helps somewhat, but my hands still feel achy at the end of the day.
Just junk food for thought...
Public Schools. Most have a hazardous waste room (filled with other obsolete goodies as well, such as A/V monitors and tape decks) that have loads of outdated equipment. Sadly, they ship it off to omewhere to be hazardous landfill.
Ask the technology dept. head, most are glad to be rid of em', and you could pick up some nice PS/2s in the process (your on your own for microbus 10bT cards, though).
What the heck is a 'sig'?
There is a company who still manufactures the IBM BS keyboard and also refurbishes used ones. It's at pckeyboard.com> . They've even got versions with the evil windows key.
I probably saw the same thing: just found it here (and google found me another page on fully split keyboards).
However the reason for my suggestion of two keyboards was to make some (ie the middle columns), or even all, of the keys available to both hands, for those of us who don't touch type by the book
I find myself not keeping my hands in the recommended typing positions mostly because all of the symbols which form a large percentage of the source code of most computer languages would be rather uncomfortable to type, notably the }, )and Tab (if you're using emacs or anything with tab completion) characters one a qwerty keyboard which have very high frequencies in java and c++ (and the problem is even worse on a dvorak layout, which is great for typing English, but terrible for c++).
With the whole keyboard repeated, I'd be able to type like back in the bad old days of non-split keyboards and let the other hand drift over momentarily whilst typing a back-tick, Escape or a } (or worst of all a "Page Up" (well not quite the worst, when some software forces you to have to reach for the mouse .... grrrrrr)) rather than having to either stretch excessivly or wait for the correct hand to get back in place.
Using a USB keyboard solves the problem of needing some kind of ps2 Y splitter.
What's the name of that keyboard that had 450mb hard drive some 486 proc(I think) and network jack? It's one computer in a keyboard. I remember seeing it on ebay.
You can use Ctrl - [ as an alternative to Escape in vi. Makes things much nicer.
Perhaps the dominating factor was not the trained typist but how to fit it into the shipping box.
So they still base their keyboards on 20 year old typewriters? I can see this being the original reason, but give me a fucking break about this why the keyboard is the way it is. Otherwise all our keyboards would have little dials on the side to scroll our text up so we could apply electronic white-out.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
"I've seen have used membrane technology, but I have always been a believer that ergonomic keyboards not only hinder a typist, but also do not relieve any stress from typing. I never proved that of course, but I've always felt more "natural" with standard keyboards. An article was just released at the BBC, describing how ergonomic keyboards might not be as helpful as many might hope to believe."
As fate would have it, I'm a big guy. I wear either a XXLT or XXXLT shirt. Given that I have broader shoulders than most, I find that an ergo keyboard to be very much more comfortable than regular rectangular keyboards.
I *suspect* that there's a number of variables that play a role in whether or not a person finds ergo keyboards to be a significant improvement over conventional keyboards.
"Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian
I'm also a big fan of the feel and layout of the old IBM clickers, but they are just too loud. The next best thing is the keyboards that Logitech makes for OEM use by companies like HP and Compaq. They come in a variety of sizes and some with extra multimedia keys, but otherwise have the same 104-key layout with the backslash key above a rectangular enter key and the double-key size backspace key. Since they are membrane keyboards they don't have as much tactile feedback as the old clickers, but are also not nearly as loud. They are a little stiffer than the clickers, but to me it actually feels better to type on. Best of all, the keyboard I got came free with the HP Pavilion I bought over 2 years ago (only the original mobo and CPU remain...everything else on the machine was replaced over time). But I doubt this thing will hold up for 15 years and still feel like it did when it was new, like the IBM clickers do.
Actually, Commodore made some pretty nice PC keyboards - I've got one in front of me. Nice angle, and the keys are a joy to clatter away on!
The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
I was driving down the road, passing by Micro Center, and some voice in my brain said "why don'tcha see what they have?" So, I did this, and they had a crapload of new Type M keyboards. I bought two of them for $5 each, and have been happy as a clam ever since. Both were made in Scotland by IBM (or at least with IBM tags on it) in 1999.
Since then, I dunno if I would be willing to pay $49 for em.
REAL computer users seek out more extreme forms of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome!!!!
Now, almost all PC keyboards, even the very best, use the horrible "plastic-rubber-membrane" setup. And they are indescribably vile.
I believe that one of my claims to fame is that I was the first person in the world to break one of the original IBM PC keyboards. I was a contractor working for one of the companies that IBM hired to create the software for the initial release of the PC, working under severe secrecy and harsh NDAs. A few weeks before the actual release of the PC, I managed to knock one of the keyboards of our sample machines off a desk, jarring loose several keycaps, and causing some damage to the internal circuitry.
Ever since then, I've found it ironic when people refer to these keyboards as "indestructible". Although I freely admit that they are great keyboards, possibly the best ever made for any computing equipment anywhere.
I absolutely reFUSE to get rid of my IBM Model M keyboard. It's so much easier to type quickly on them that the mushy thing I have to use at work.
My boyfriend, however, gets really irritated by the sound it makes. He's tried to get me to use alternate keyboards several times, but I keep coming back to old c^Htrusty.
Now... about putting it in the dishwasher... I'll have to think about that. It certainly could use a cleaning. I suppose one should remove the ICs first. Has anyone else perpetrated this insanity and lived to tell about it?
"Bishops and Bookies live off the irrational hopes of mankind." Bertrand Russell
The scary part about looking over this article is that in the picture the top keyboard is the exact same keyboard I am using right now (as in typing this post with it). I like this old click-ity keyboard, they give a nice solid feel. MUSHY BAD.
snowulf.com
I have used an NMB board throughout all my PC experience, and I am an absolutely devout fan. I ran a very plain NMB RT6656TW for something like 6 years and all other boards I had tried were inferior. The key travel and tactile feel were perfect in my mind. It also included full backspace and backslash keys, which most of us who use a kb for hours a day think are completely essential. The only thing about the board that I disliked at all was the volume. When typing relatively stiffly, it would click quite loudly (not the mechanical double-click like my old board from a 286 :). I was looking around for some new NMB boards and found my savior... NMB RT2258TW. It has the identical travel and resistance as the 6600s, except with a modern membrane so it's markedly quieter. www.thenerds.net has them for ~$8 -- STOCK UP!
The Mac had no Ctrl key, and its keyboard subsystem could not generate the ASCII control codes, from 1984 to 1987. The Mac got a Ctrl key in 1987, and ever since then Apple has been telling developers not to use Ctrl-A through Ctrl-Z in their user interfaces. Ctrl was next to A on the original IBM Personal Computer, the PC XT, and the original PC AT; IBM moved it to the far corners of the keyboard in 1986. Not one of the keystrokes Ctrl-A through Ctrl-Z was used for any function in any program bundled with Microsoft Windows from 1985 to 1992. Only one of those keystrokes had a documented word-processing command function in WordPerfect for MS/PC DOS. Only one worked in Microsoft Word for MS/PC DOS. Those keystrokes could be used only for input of non-ASCII printing characters in MultiMate and the cc:Mail message editor. Only the few that worked on the CP/M command line worked on MS/PC DOS's command line and (except for the brief period when DR DOS was around) in the MS/PC DOS bundled utilities.
Then, in 1992, when the monopoly was firmly established, a slew of Ctrl-plus-letter-key keystrokes were given prominent functions in Microsoft Windows.
People like typing-zone command keystrokes a lot. The typing-zone command keystrokes Ctrl-A through Ctrl-Z are a platform-independent mechanism.
The keyboard command sets of mass-market software tell quite a story. Anybody listening?
Dan Strychalski ("dski") in Hsinchu
I really hate the trend that is going on today with making everything out of cheap plastic to save money and still charge about the same price for a cheaper product. I sit here still using the very same keyboard that came with my AT. In the past 15 years or so it is the only keyboard I have that has been able to survive more than 1 year of my abusive typing style (fast and hard). I am going to be so pissed when this thing finally breaks, as there is no place around here that carries keyboards like this.
If someone can point me to where I can get quality spring-loaded keyboards that have a hard case on them I would really appriciate it. I would never want to give up my durable loud keyboard for a quiet flimsy one again (I have gone through quite a few of those when I was up on campus where people get pissed about the loud keyboards)
Bottom line: It's easier for the 98+% of computer users to leave the NumLock function on and use both the "extra" keys and the numeric keys for the functions as printed on their keycaps.
http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/dissent.html
As a Dvorak user for 4ish years now I've never seen anyone who learned the Dvorak keyboard go back to qwerty once they reached a decent speed. Also it impresses the hell out of the drones when they see you typing on a keyboard with different layout than the printed letters (just don't tell them that once you can touch type the printed letters are meaningless :)
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
An easy method to determine the quality of your keyboard. 1. Take the keyboard and remove the cable. Bonus points if the cable is designed to be replaceable. 2. Find and old CGA monitor. 3. Raise the keyboard high above your head. 4. Bring it down onto the monitor as if you were chopping wood. 5. Repeat until either the monitor or the keyboard breaks. If this test renders the keyboard useless, it's probably one of those wireless multimedia internet pieces of crud. If the keyboard miraculously survives and/or the monitor smashes to bits, congratulations! You have an IBM Model M!
Thanks, I found out at work that current keyboards are just too big...I looked at Pfuca site...and man that keyboard is small. Especially since my fingers are not 'gracefully spider-like' and dance around the edges of my keyboard. Only thing is, before I shell out money, is the tactile feedback of a Buckling Spring type? Anyone? Please let me know...!
I believe it is still the membrane switch setup, but it has a much better feel than the usual crop of keyboards. It's pretty close, but still not the same, as the IBM keyboards. I have one of the "space saver" IBM boards and was hoping to save even more space - which it does - but I'm just not sure I like it enough. Although I'm giving it a good try, I've only had it about a month so far.
I really like the small size - and having NO extra keys off to the side, it centers well on my lap when kicked back in the chair! - but oh, the feel of the IBM... The best way to characterize the difference, in my view, is while there's a bit of a "click" feeling for the HHKB, it has a higher resistance the whole way down. Whereas the IBM just drops on down once the initial "edge resistance" is breached.
Now I have to decide whether to shell out for one for work... The most annoying side effect is since the backspace key is one row down, I now drive myself crazy when switching back and forth between keyboards!
I wish someone would make a keyboard with both halves completely separable and joined only by a cable. Then I could stretch my arms out occasionally and keep typing. Some keyboard do exist where the two halves are separated (usually with an inch or two of plastic not covered by keys in between), but not completely separable - I've never seen one where you put the left and right halves four feet apart, for example.
Sig: Free classified ads at
I am personally a big fan of the Compaq 208-key "double" keyboard. I really hate that shift key.
l
http://www.bbspot.com/News/2001/08/keyboard.htm
Not true! You are wrong about Unicomp's keyboards. I own two boards bought from them. One is an old IBM model M (they used to have surplus inventory from IBM), and I also bought a new Unicomp keyboard. They sell two types of keyboards: buckling spring capacitive keyswitch and rubber dome keyswitch based keyboards. They call the former "buckling spring" keyboards and the latter "quiet touch" keyboards.
Of course, the cool thing about the model M keyboards is that they are slightly heavier than the newer Unicomp buckling spring boards.
The best thing about these boards is that they will nearly last a lifetime, and therefore you can get really used to one board, its shape, size, feel... makes for easier typing.
I have a Unicomp trackpoint buckling spring keyboard. In fact, I am using it right now. My parent's are borrowing my old IBM type M. I love trackpoints, but I also have a traditional 3 button mouse, for gaming purposes. Yes, you can use both at the same time.
Check out this keyboard at pckeyboard.com's yahoo store. It's probably exactly what you're looking for (except for the size thing). I'm tempted to order one.
Personally, I like the backspace key just above the enter key. It's less of a reach. And in Unix or Linux, \ isn't used nearly as much as it is in Windows. Unfortunately my fingers get confused when I go back and forth between my HHKB (or the Sun Type 6 UNIX layout USB keyboard I use at home these days) and a "normal" PC keyboard. It's also kind of weird to have `~ on the right hand side of the keyboard.
My other first post is car post.
You Americans never saw Sinclair ZX80, obviously.
.mau.
This was a fine example of something quite completely unlike a keyboard...
ciao,
Oh, I wish I had moderator access today and had not already contributed to this thread. That post is CLASSIC and its author deserves some karma.
Somebody mod this guy up!!
Some years ago, I spent some time trying to learn the Dvorak, and finally gave up, annoyed at the productivity hit during the week.
;-) What I found out was that when using QWERTY, my left hand was typically typing 55%+ of the letters, and the right 45%-, and when using Dvorak, it's reversed.
Then my thoughts turned to, WTF is this not working well for me, even after I've learned the positions of the keys pretty well?
So, what's a geek to do? Well, of course, I started doing analyses of my keystrokes, to try to figure this out.
I'm left-hand-dominant (though officially right-handed thanks to pre-school training). I want to use the fingers on my left hand as much as possible, because they're the ones that have the highest dex (obD reference). QWERTY lets me do that, so I decided then and there that QWERTY wins for me, and haven't bothered with the "efficiency" of Dvorak since then.
Have to agree about the A2000 keyboard! Still using the original since 1991. Had one trip to Synapse (Brisbane IBM & Amiga RepairShop) to 'sort out' 3 sticking keys.
(Really miss the home-position points on the C128D keyboard 'thou!)
.
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
Samething goes for Apple's current keyboards, including the ones on their portables.
Personally I have a soft spot for the bog standard Compaq keyboards (the ones they keep supplying with servers, but end up staying in the box). I personally think they have a fantastic feel to them, and the short key travel makes them really quick.
I got one of those recent standard MS keyboards (the one with the Web and Calculator buttons along the top), and it felt terrible. Inconsistencies in the feel of certain keys, and so on.
IMHO the old IBM Clicktastics are great... for about an hour of hard typing, then tendons start to complain.
(PS: can anyone recommend a good USB keyboard, I broke my PS2 port being too fussy!!!)
You fool! You've given cheese to a lactose intolerant volcano god! Do you know what that means?
there is only one solution to your problem:
step 1) obtain wireless access point
step 2) amplify broadcast power of access point
step 3) take computer to bathroom stall - buy some "caution / do not enter" tape"
step 4) check connection (if no connection, redo step 2)
step 5) work wonders to save humanity!
(we all know that most of the truly inspiring thoughts come to man when he is in sitting on the throne -- just think about the flux capacitor)
p.s. on a serious note: i am sorry for your current condition; maybe move to the states / even japan? (in japan, even the senior managers don't get office(s), so while it's the same lousy work env, you will at least feel better about it, maybe.)
My life in the land of the rising sun.
lol.
I wish I could move to the US, for one thing, programmers salaries are somwhat higher! There's a small problems though of work permits, selling our house (which is tiny and not worth very much), we also have kids in senior school, and though I despise the quality of our public eductation, my American friends here in the UK (and I know a LOT of them, we're close to a US base) all tell me that the UK schools are MUCH better than US schools.
And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour Isaiah 3:5
i'd be much more worried about learning to drive on the opposite side of the road.
i hear that when ppl learns to drive on one side -- in an emergency they automatically swerve to what they consider to be the "side of the road" -- in your case you will probabbly swerve left, which would be toward the oncomming traffic here in the US.
and oh yeah -- if you ever do move here -- stay away from silicon valley, or california in general. this place is like the nymph in the legends -- lure you here with beautiful weather, and torment you for eternity with rediculous real-estate prices (houses are roughly 800k-1.4 million US dollars here, apt / townhouse (flat?) will cost you 350-600k US dollars) *coughs blood*
My life in the land of the rising sun.
Besides which, I am sure that the reason that IBM included control keys on its keyboards is because they were standard in the mainframe and Unix world. The fact that they weren't used directly in DOS programs doesn't really prove anything.
Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
I'm lucky; I just went to ebay and picked up two(both for home & work)IMB model-m keyboards. The reason I want the buckling spring is a) I like the tactile feedback and b) what u said "IBM just drops on down once the initial edge resistance is breached"--easier to press for my weak pinky fingers.
My "funky" dates agree completely with yours.
Please explain how "DOS" and the company that produced it constituted a competitive threat to "Windows" and the company that produced it.
Microsoft has had monopoly power over the x86 platform since 1981. Mitch Kapor compared them to Standard Oil in 1986. They were under investigation and being talked about as a monopoly in 1990.
"DOS" apps brought in more cash than "Windows" apps in 1992, but that would end in 1993, and Microsoft was watching the figures. They had the market in their pocket, and they knew it. The monopoly was a sure thing, if not "firmly established" in your view.
So where's the Meta key on the IBM Personal Computer?
Ctrl was standard before Unix came into being. It was standard on every Teletype and CRT terminal from the late sixties on. It was standard on the Apple II, every CP/M machine, every Amiga. An ASCII-speaking machine without Ctrl is useless for many important jobs. IBM included Ctrl because the 5150 was an ASCII-speaking machine. I can't think of a serious ASCII-speaking machine other than the early Macs that doesn't have Ctrl.
Ctrl-A through Ctrl-Z were used in extremely popular early "DOS" programs. WordStar was #1 in retail sales at least until the mid eighties and standard on campuses until the late eighties. It was in the programs that got sold into large corporate and governmental accounts from the early eighties on that Ctrl-A through Ctrl-Z were either totally unused or used exactly as all relevant standards expressly prohibit, that is, for input of printable characters. And you'll notice that WordPerfect for MS/PC DOS didn't use Alt-plus-letter-key combinations, either. In the software that served as millions of people's introduction to computers, not one typing-zone command keystroke existed. This is not significant? I take it you haven't yet heard of a manner of investigating that we call "science"....