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Home-Built vs. Store-Bought PCs
Greg Searle asks: "I'm going to be in the market for another PC soon, and have been watching the prices drop and the power go up over the years. There are a lot of 'bargains' out there, but then I heard that the best and least expensive PC's are 'white box' systems that are custom build by small, local companies. This got me thinking, I know how to put together a PC from scratch, why don't I just do it? This should save me quite a few bucks, and I get the exact system I want. My question to you: Where is the best place to order the parts (case, MB, drives, etc.) over the web? I am familiar with sites that sell typical consumer products, but have no idea where to start to get raw parts. I'd prefer one site that sells everything, but wouldn't be surprised if there are some specialty sites that provide the most bang for the buck for a particular piece. What do you think?"
http://www.newegg.com
I start looking at pricewatch.com. They are a lister, they list prices of components.
Keep in mind shipping: its usually cheaper to order a proc & mobo & ram from one place, just to save on shipping.... (otherwise you pay $15 extra per component)...
I've done business with many companies listed there, and been happy every time.
I shop at Tiger Direct a lot. Just got my Casio PV-400plus second day air. I've never had a problem with them and they have GREAT prices. Another rout is to go buy a barebones system at your local computer shop and then go to Best Buy and get a HD and the other stuff you want.
This isn't worth your time anymore... you can buy a stripped down PC from dell for $450.
check out techbargains.com for the latest dell deals...
start your dell rants.
www.newegg.com
Good prices, good rep, good shipping!
I used to work for one, and they can probably get parts cheaper than you'll be able to through the web. There's always a markup to cover the not-inconsiderable expense of maintaining a storefront, but a competent, reputable local dealer is worth the cost especially if you're not comfortable troubleshooting and fixing problems yourself.
FIRST POST whoohoo. anywho.. I get my parts from a company in Toronto, Burnt Circuits (www.burntcircuitsinc.com).
4B4556494E
Check out Newegg for a pretty good selection of stuff. They don't have the best return policies, but they are a pretty good place. I also suggest looking at Anandtech for the motherboard/memory/video roundups which give the best prices for certain components. The places he references are usually higher quality than the lowball offerings given on Pricewatch.
Come play Heroes of Might and Magic Mini online.
I don't believe you can really save money building a system yourself anymore. Check around.
What it does allow you to do is get exactly what you need for your specific application.
You can enhance any functions you depend on (sound, video, etc.) or add more ports of your choosing and type.
Or go to Wallmart and check and see what the whiteboxs go for. Cheaper than you can build it for unless your a student or have access to a nice supply of "spare parts".
[newegg]
Linux is not the question, its the answer.
One of the appeals of a pieced together machine is that while it may not be the least expensive, you control what goes into it and what compromises, if any, get made.
However, they don't necessarily always have all the lowest stores listed. In particular, I often check at least newegg.com, but others may have their favorites as well.
If you are in Canada (which i assume you are not) You should order from http://www.ncix.com They are out of Vancouver and have great prices / 2 day shipping. Hard to find good stuff online without paying duty from the US.
Jeremy
www.pricewatch.com
There is more to building your own PC than just the price.
Building your own PC gives you a lot more options, and it is fun! (if your a geek :-)
...interesting if true.
You can easily find prices for the components you want from tons of different places:
www.pricewatch.com
I have usually found the best prices at one of the "White-Box shops". If they sell you the parts then they don't have to support you and they can sell the parts for less $$. Sure you could just use pricewatch or whatever but at least at the "White-Box shop" you have a face to yell at.
Once homebrew, always homebrew.
At least I know whats in side rather than some guy in a pink suit telling me.
Just avoid VIA and HiPoint.
----- Whats wrong with this picture? http://www.revoh.org:1234/whatswrong
www.pricewatch.com will get you the best price. www.resellerratings.com will help you figure out whether you're about to buy from a crooked company or an honest one.
I have been using www.mwave.com for over 3 years! They have Pricewatch based pricing! they are a great company! They have a nice site that is easy to navigate and use. And they have all the major parts both oem and retail!
keanmarine.com
I've always built my own. Typically I find that it actually costs a little more then a mass market PC, but I get exactly the options (video card, PC card, etc) I want, and don't have to pay for any bundled stuff I didn't want.
I typically price all my parts through Pricewatch
Just look on pricewatch.com. I build white-box PCs all the time, and usually go with one or two vendors, depending on who's offering what at that moment, and what the best prices are. Keep in mind that on the web, you don't pay tax (unless the vendor is within your home state), but you do pay shipping, and for things like cases and monitors, the bill can add up fast.
I have built 3 computers. All three I have bought parts from different places. It all boils down to finding the best deals.
shopper.com has price comparisons from many places, and that can be useful. COMPONENT PRICES CAN VARY WILDLY FROM DIFFERENT VENDORS!
You should check out buy.com, as they have a components section, and are usually reasonable on prices. If you want to buy everything from the same place without a lot of hassle, they might be your best bet.
I also have to recommend NewEgg. Their prices are excellent, as is the product documentation. I've ordered the wrong part a few times from them and they were very good about assisting in my RMA.
There is no sinlge best "place," but a good start is of course, pricewatch, which compares a large number of online retailers.
Computer shows in your area are also a good bet, as small outfits will put together a barebones for less than even pricewatch can most of the time.
Finally, try "hot deals" forums like anandtech and fatwallet. They have decent coupon/rebate deals you can use locally or online to snag some great cheap accesories.
Hope that helps!
www.newegg.com this is where i got all the parts for my current pc.
www.pricewatch.com great search type engine....
Pricewatch does a great job of categorizing all the different components you'll need to build your own computer. Buyer beware however, as not all vendors appear to be 'upstanding'.
You can also check pricegrabber.com and dealtime.com for comparisons.
Oh, and you might also want to read through anandtech.com, arstechnica.com, tomshardware.com, onepc.com, and other sites dedicated to computer-component reviews.
Good luck.
wherever you buy, check them out here first.
...needless to say, i learned the hard way
www.pricewatch.com 0wnz everything else. Also, use your gut feeling when buying stuff online, if the place has a shitty website...and looks like they dont get much business, dont buy from them. My friend ordered a camera from a website he got from pricewatch. Two months later, no camera, but he had the bill to pay. The company went out of business soon after.
In college, really poor, need a flatscreen.
I prefer to buy it by visiting the local computer shops here (Vancouver, BC, Canada).
They tend to be a bit cheaper, you don't have to worry about shipping... then again, there's the tax. For those of you living in large cities, they are often your best bet for the most common parts rather than trying to hunt through 100 different online vendors, dealing with damaged parcels, etc. Plus, with so many of them along the same road, it's easy to visit another shop if the one doesn't have what you want. And most are online so you can compare prices...
I use Pricewatch in conjuntion with ResellerRatings to find the best prices on hardware from reputable companies.
I'm looking for a HEPA media filter for my TV. I'm alergic to reality shows.
Do *not* find the lowest prices on eahc part and use that to spec your system. The absolute worst thing you can do is "cheap out" on parts like RAM, motherboard, and the case. You'll end up with a potentially buggy system that is hard to maintain.
Make sure you only buy *retail* packages and keep all receipts in a folder in case you need to RMA a bad part.
It may cost 10-20% more, but if you do these two simple things, your overall value goes way up for building your own system.
Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
Even with free shipping, make sure that the price you are getting online (*cough* www.pricewatch.com) is a lot cheaper than local stores. Local stores give you the benefit of returns and refunds without dealing with shipping costs and delays. A machine I recently built worked perfectly fine, but I realized half-way through that I wanted a motherboard without built in ethernet card. A decision like that will cost you weeks of time if you bought all your components online, but for me, it was a simple drive down the road. How much money is your time worth?
Building your own PC is not always the least expensive proposition. Most configurable, yes, but not least expensive. For starters, all of the prebuilt PC manufacturers get huge bulk discounts. If you want to go buy that P4, it may cost you well over $400 or even $500. These guys can buy in bulks of 10,000 or more, which means significant price drops. Same for the motherboards, cases, power supplies, RAM, ... You're not going to be able to match the prices these companies can get. On top of that, if you're building your own PC, you're probably going to want to put quality parts in it. Don't expect that from a prebuilt company. They skimp where they can (weaker powersupply, flimsy case, off-brand sound card, etc) so they can pass the savings on to you while still making some sort of profit. Nevermind the software you have to buy (assuming you want to run Windows or some other commercial OS and don't wish to steal it). You can sometimes get the OEM discounts on the software if you buy it in conjunction with a mobo or hard drive, but not always.
In short, if price is a concern, don't build it yourself. Oh, sure, with a little due dilligence you can keep the price down. It's just been my experience that that doesn't happen. If you're pinching pennies, buy from a respectable name brand. If you want the ultimate in configuration (and don't mind having no computer-wide warranty support), then build it yourself.
Generally you would be best off purchasing the monitor for your system at a local store (Best Buy, Circuit City). It can cost $40 or more for shipping alone.
The same stores that sell those custom built white box pcs also sell parts. Unless you are looking for something hard to find, such as crucial ram (I had alot of trouble finding a store that stocked it, but finally did) then its just easier to get it from a store. If you have a defective product, you can simply bring it back. If you order a defective product, it might take you 6 weeks to get a replacement! By then, the hardware you ordered may have already become obsolete :)
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
nuff said.
It's def. worth your time to build one from scratch. It seems quite a few people here don't quite understand that the system YOU build is going to be a LOT more upgradeable in the future than a stripped DELL system for 450. Ya, you may pay more money putting it together yourself but your parts are going to be better. That plus the upgradeabilty should answer your question hands down. I've been building/buying white box for years, anyone that buys name brand pc's is quite looney imo
When looking for memory, I'd reccomend buyaib.com, Their website always has great deals on memory. About a year ago, I was able to pick up a gig of pc133 memory for about 65 dollars after shipping. (2 512MB Sticks) I discovered them through pricewatch, and they have always treated me well. I have ordered approx 50 sticks of memory from them and never once had a problem.
Remember that you are unique, just like everybody else.
The biggest problem with building your own is that you're the only one that can troubleshoot it if the system is DOA when you put it together and power it on. Typically you will find that the various component vendors will blame each other, and it's really hard to troubleshoot when you don't have the ability to swap out components.
http://www.newegg.com
When you put your system together, remember that chip speed is not everything. I just bought a system with a 400 mhz bus (and two 1.2 ghz chips). Without the quick bus, I wouldn't be able to use the the quick chips. Be warned: the big name companies save there money here.
Also, the place I got my system from (ordered by my coworker, so I forget where it was) actually built the thing, even though we only ordered the components! Be sure to ask for a similar deal, if you use one company for everything...
Whatever you do, don't go to Fry's for anything other than the software or DVD's you might want to use/watch on the thing.
Fry's for cpu/mobo/memory/hdd/etc. is a crap-shoot... no, craps odds are much better actually.
IMNSHO
"Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right." - R.H.
but you will end up with a much higher performance system than you can purchase. I built a celeron 333 a few years ago that benchmarked significantly higher than any every "store-bought" full pentium system at the time. Remember, the big manufacturers like Dell and Gateway are getting volume discounts on generally low-end parts in order to produce the P4 systems you see selling for $599.
I'd suggest starting out by going to a site like arstechnica.com and looking over their guides. You need to make quite a few decisions regarding components before you even start looking at vendors. You need to pick a CPU, a motherboard, a video card, etc. etc...
I have had very good luck with them. Ordered one bare bones system, one mobo/cpu/ram combo, the remainder of the parts for both of those systems, and about three complete computers in parts. I have been very happy with the service with each of the about 10 orders I have placed.
My one experience with newegg was also good.
Pricewatch is useful, but before you take the lowest price, check them out at Reseller Ratings. Sometimes it's better to spend the extra $10 and avoid the rip-off artists.
Advice: Don't unless you enjoy it and can accept a high-level of frustration. That said, two places to go for some good information about parts, prices and how-to.
- Anandtech
- Tom's Hardware
In my experience the following online vendors are good for parts because of their service and prices:Generally speaking I try to buy the majority, if not all my parts from one or two vendors, because shipping can really make or break a deal.
Seriously, does the stripped down PC also avoid the Microsoft tax? I would think not but I could be wrong. Besides, who wants to buy hardware from someone with such an annoying mascot? I would think that kid represents AOL better than Dell.
Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
I'll put in a plug for the good folks at mwave.com. I've built my past 3 systems entirely from what they had in stock, and they've always been real good about shipping and RMA.
They usually don't have the lowest price on pricewatch for any given component, but they're usually pretty near it. I don't mind paying ~$1-5 more for ordering from someone I've worked with before.
Building yourself is the way to go!
I love rolling my own, but now I limit myself to PCs contained in my house. In the past, I have put together for friends and collegues (with no profit for myself) and had problems. The biggest complaint: "too loud of fans". I've noticed that Dells sometimes make plastic ducts to redirect fans from the transformer to processor heatsink. Interesting if you could do that yourself.
Ok...I admit it, I too am a pricewatch.com groupie.
I have been building my own systems for the last 8 years. The main reason I used to do it was to save some cash. Systems from commerical vendors used to be a pretty costly way to get a pc. But that was "back in the day", now-a-days, systems vendors are selling computer systems dirt cheap. I build my own systems these days because I get a system with exactley the cutting edge stuff I want and not the lame OEM stuff that you get from Dell or Gateway.
HexDump
http://pricewatch.com/
Every single time I've constructed a system from scratch, the system was always more expensive than a store system configuration.
The reason being that when you start shopping for individual components, you start buying stuff that is alot more powerful than the stuff in full system configuration. Start spending a few extra bucks here and there and it quickly adds up.
In the end you have a high end system that is no where close to the specs of the premade system, and it is evident in the cost as well.
What's your point?
Why don't you try this?
And quit wasting our time. This is *easily* the...
Worst. AskSlashdot. Ever.
I just bought my complete system from newegg a month ago, excluding a specific video card that I found on pricewatch.com for cheaper. Newegg is definitely very reliable and quick to ship your parts. I usually browse neweggs catalog since it is so easy and quite big, then go to pricewatch to find the cheapest of what I want. You should try to stick to buying from one site in order to save on shipping.
agreed. build your own if you really know what you're doing and -enjoy- building it. I still do that. however i'd be more than happy to buy a prebuilt or mostly prebuilt system for myself if i could find a whitebox vendor that uses the parts i want (easy access case, ultra quiet high quality power supply, and the motherboard + cpu that i want). i'd still buy the ram and possibly the hard drive from elsewhere as those are extreemly marked up by most vendors compared to the best raw price you can get for what you need elsewhere.
you save a -lot- of time and headaches and messy vs. nice cabling if you buy a prebuilt system from a decent whitebox or bigname vendor. [you can even get warranties and support which can be good depending on how you plan to use the computer]
Along with the other suggestions, you might try shopper.com. Sometimes I find a few items that are lower priced than items on pricewatch.
I build a lot of custom systems for people because I promise high quality parts at a competitive costs to computer vendors.
What I basically find is you have two typical users. The Power Users and the Economy Users.
Your Power Users usually tend to want the latest and greatest parts with the top of the line hardware, all name brand, and want to be able to boast the parts they have in there (ie: VisionTek GeForce4, Asus Motherboard.. things of that nature). Custom machines fit this bill perfectly.
Economy Users are the people who just see the computer as a tool and plan on using it to prepair their taxes and reports for the next five years. Their main concern ? Warranty, Part Replacement and Technical Support. For people like this, you pretty much have no choice but to turn to companies like Dell, Gateway or even Compaq to have their major brand names behind the systems. I'm a big fan of Dell and their Warranty/Support.
This is of course if you don't wish to hand out your cell phone number or if you loath nagging for RMA's as much as I do.
If you're looking for a good site for computer part prices your #1 choice should be PriceWatch. This site is a database of the lowest hardware prices on the Internet.
Hope this Helped!
I'm certainly not the first to mention them, but they really are a great source for computer parts. While you may find better prices on some items if you shop around (pricewatch), you will not find a lower price on all parts in one place than Newegg. Fast shipping too. I recently purchased about 2 computers worth of parts from Newegg. Every item showed up within 3 days and not a single item was incorrect or missing.
Another poster mentioned just buying one from Dell. I have found that you generally can buy a low-end system from someone like Dell for a lot less than building one yourself. If you want a pretty decent system though, you need to build yourself. Even though the Dell Precision workstations are pretty nice machines, you can still do a lot better both in price and performance if you build yourself. Just being able to get the exact components you want is worth it. Also, only you what components you are willing to pay more for better performance and which you are willing to sacrifice some performance for a lower price.
Companies last such a short amount of time, and their quality changes so rapidly, that it's not worth bothering with trying to get a relationship with your average low-cost budget joint.
So I just find out which company is the cheapest at that particular moment in time and order parts from there. An acceptable alternative is to find the best place to get the most expensive part and then see how they stack up for the rest of the parts.
If you try this approach, make sure that you get total name-brand stuff. Hence you want real Mushkin/Corsair/etc. memory where the module and the chips are name brand. Bad memory can cause system instability really easily, so don't scrimp there. Get an ASUS/ATi/Matrox/VisionTek/etc. big-brand card instead of whatever Jaton or other generic crap they are trying to sell instead. Check about the waranty for the "white box" OEM parts. If there's no waranty for the white box components, get a retail box component with a waranty instead.
Check things with a fine-tooth comb when you receive them. Assemble the system entirely as soon as you have the parts, not a month down the line when you get the time. And make sure that you purchase everything with a real credit card (NOT a debit card)
Gentoo Sucks
If you're in the UK, eBuyer are very good. Europeans generally get ripped off for PC components, with prices in pounds being the numeric equivalent in dollars! eBuyer is very cheap though, and the prices approach American levels. You can get all of the components for a respectable 1Ghz box for about £250.
However, an even better resource is uk.adverts.computer. There are some real bargains on there! Everyone deals one to one, and bad traders are ferreted out and shamed in the group. It's pretty safe, and the prices are even lower. You can also get good advice about components there.. or in uk.comp.homebuilt.
Computer fairs in the UK generally aren't as good value as they used to be, unless you're looking for black goods.
Buying prebuilt computers from small builders is also very cost effective now. Sure, it's more expensive than building your own, but with the warranties, it can work out better, and you don't have to cut your hands to bits.
I use OnlyPCs who are a local firm, but will supply a brand new 1Ghz machine with CDRW, monitor, etc.. for £450 inc VAT!
mogorific carpentry experiments
It certainly used to be true that you could build your own system for cheaper than a store model. But now ... I've seen decent HP systems for $400 (no monitor). Not sure what they've got just now but try ecost.
That said, if you've already got most of the components such as hard drives, CD-ROM etc. It's still cheaper to just get the mainboard + CPU. This way you can upgrade in parts as well.
accessmicro is a decent site...they put motherboard/cpu/memory combo's together, test and benchmark the system before shipping.
Pricewatch rates sellers by price, my advise though is to know what your buying, and buy parts manufactured by reputable companies as they are the ones you'll probably contact if the hardware has problems.
If you happen to be near Dallas on the first Saturday of the month, stop by the Commerce and Lemmon intersection and buy anything you need for that homebrew
I have put together over a hundred systems and I usually get close to the best price available, along with excellent customer care. They are quick, have a wonderful RMA Policy and have the best flat rate shipping around. TCWO.COM Ships Up to 150lb. FedEx for $6.95.
http://www.tcwo.com
You might try http://www.computerpartsusa.com. They have competative pricing on everything you'd need as well as a knowledgable staff.
~.Evanrude
Newegg - GREAT prices on parts ... beware some of the vendors who are cheapest have horrendous shipping.
CurrentCodes - The best coupon code site
Computer Geeks - sometimes has REALLY good deals on systems and components
DealHunting - Has a lot of deals and coupon codes, very handy
PriceWatch - good for seeing how good a deal you're getting
A: Home built. Next question.
Nathan's blog
One thing I've always noticed is that building your own box is much cheaper than purchasing one if you want a really high end box. For example, I have a dual 1GHz P3, 1GB RAM, SCSI RAID, and a bunch of other stuff on it. I priced a similar system from Dell, IBM, and a couple of other companies and the cheapest I found it for was $3500. I built it myself and it only cost $1700. BIG difference in price. For entry level machines, though, companies like Gateway and Dell offer much better values. As far as where to purchase components, I recommend buying a very good motherboard. Companies like Abit or Asus are what I would recommend. Other than that, you could use Pricewatch to locate the cheapest parts online. I'd go with brand names, but find the best deal you can. (i.e., look for names like Seagate, Western Digital for hard drives, etc. Not just any old name) If you do that, you'll get a great quality box at a great price. SN
You're definitely making the right choice. Store-bought PCs aren't all they're cracked up to be. When you build your own box, you get to research all the components and find out, for yourself, what the advantages and disadvantages of each component is. If you're going to run FreeBSD or Linux or whatever, you can select hardware that is supported by your software, so that you don't pay a bunch of money for something prebuilt where half the stuff in the box is unsupported, and is therefore shit produced by shitheads.
(Because only really stupid people make hardware that isn't supported by Linux or FreeBSD.)
We have several small shops that sell components cheap, usually about the same as pricewatch after you figure in sales tax, shipping, and all the other extras. I like buying from them because there is someone I can talk face-to-face with and return parts to. I can ask questions like "hey, how often do you get people returning brand X hard drives that are DOA".
Also, by taking my money to those shops I help make sure they stay in business, so as to not help those big shops that seem to get articles on slashdot a lot for various questionable business practices, as well as making sure the little shops are still around when I need a part "right now" not "in a few days, when we feel like sticking it in the mail".
Personally, i think it's a good idea to stay away from Western Digital for your HD. Do go with Asus for the mobo and to make sure to buy from a vendor that's out of state so you don't get stuck paying the shipping AS WELL as sales tax.
I've done this before, and the most important advice I can give is limit the number of suppliers you get parts from. If possible, buy everything from one vendor. This a)reduces your shipping costs b)reduces the number of transactions you have to manage. (Any issues you have, you only deal with one place).
If you do it right, you can get all of your components to show up on your doorstep at one time. Also, pick a dealer with a good reputation. It may cost a little more money to do things this way rather than grazing pricewatch.com for the lowest on everything, but the extra cash you spend is worth the headache you might be saving.
i have never gone wrong with Multiwave Direct. great prices and have never had a problem with them...
I use tccomputers.com for most of my stuff - they don't have bottom basement prices, but they are competitive and have good support (buy you MB & CPU from them, and they'll help you get it all running right if you have trouble)
Gotta get your memory from Crucial.com, they have Great prices, Great memory, and Free shipping (2nd day air).
For the remaining bits I either recycle from old PCs, use Pricewatch (with caution), or talk to friends who have parts I need.
Another thing to get in the habit of doing is buying lots of stuff when you find deals. I once got a bunch of IBM 10/100 Intel chip NICs for $15 a piece - I bought 5 of the suckers, and haven't had to buy a NIC since, even as my LAN has grown.
_sig_ is away
It's true that you probably won't save much money by building the computer yourself, it's still worth it since alot of those pre-built computers (Dell, Gateway...Compag *shudder*) come with generic, low quality parts, with only one or two components that are decent. I have actually seen a pre-built computer that included a P4 processor, Geforce4 TI 4400, and a 21 inch monitor, for a decent price, however The CD-Rom was no-name (no DVD or CDRW), it was a 6.4 gig hard drive, and only 128MB or Ram. Just an example
For commodity and parts, www.bensbargains.net has the best deals with the least bullshit. For price listings of all components, www.pricewatch.com is decent.
Shipping is where you get it on both ends though. It's playing a game of ordering this from this company maybe less, but if ordering other components plus this part from another company may be less overall. It gets frustrating, and in the end, it maybe better to just buy a microtel pc.
First place I go is www.newegg.com, everyone seems to respect them and I have always had luck with them.
Then I go to www.mwave.com because I have actually been to their warehouse, although sometimes their prices are higher than others.
This past January I put together a dual Athlon system with SCSI from www.monarchcomputer.com and they had everything I needed and they put the heatsinks and procs on the motherboard for me (so I didn't have to worry about chipping the Athlon core.)
If those 3 places don't have it I usually go to a local shop because I don't like buying from any where else.
(Plus the first 2 places have good (IMHO) RMA support.)
If you're building a server class machine, if you want stuff like redundant powersupplies, dual (or more) processors, built in highend SCSI... you're still going to pay a lot.
With a pretty good Dell going for $900, you've got to want to futz around inside the box to make building your own (with no real manufacturer support) worth your while.
A beginners' guide to Portland, OR?
If you lived in UK, the places are
CCL computers - not much choice, but very cheap and sell reliable stuff
dabs - shit loads of choice, occasionally slightly more expensive than ccl, but don't charge post on large orders.
quiet pc - the only UK store to make your pc silent. quite expensive
There are plenty other ones, but I haven't never found a better offer.
I've worked with "Store bought" and "home built" systems for a while, here is something I can share ... :)
1. Home built will match or be lower than (cost wise) a SB
2. a SB like IBM/DELL/ will generally give you less trouble because they would have done the "integration testing" for you already
3. SB will not give you what you want exactly, you will have to compromise something somewhere, maybe a motherboard, maybe a display card, maybe a sound card but they will screw you somewhere down the line
4. a HB will give you the warm fuzzy feeling of doing something and doing it well and also some experience in understanding how these components fit together.
about the maintenance part of it well if a HB goes down , you need to rip it apart and ship it to them, wait for an RMA , get it back refix , retest and hopefully not reload
a SB will give you one advantage, assuming they have a reasonable policy (most major vendors do) you'd get the part in a day or two.
So like other things there's no black and white just grey!
-- everyones not everybody and neither is everybody like everyone.
Two sites that I look at often are TigerDirect.com and PriceWatch.com. They both have great deals, and many products available.
Orange
NO NO NO
Please, avoid Tiger Direct if you want to avoid a headache. Their computers are junk (Think homebrew Packard Bell), and their service/support is virtually non-existant.
Your best bet are with 2 shops. www.ncix.com pccanada.com And a candian version of pricewatch go here www.pricenetwork.ca
I went MicroPro.com earlier this year because they had low prices and most of the parts I wanted.
This is how they treated my order. Two computers, pretty much ripped apart into pieces because they didn't even bother TRYING to pack the parts properly. The photos show how laughable their efforts were. Laughable if it's not your order, that is.
While they did eventually replace all the parts, they (1) were hoping to get away with calling it UPS's fault, and (2) took a month to "find" the RMA parts so they could replace it.
It was only the day I threatened a BBB letter that the final RMA'd units were mysteriously "found" and replaced promptly.
[
I love building my own system...it's fun!
Anyway, my locally-owned non-chain computer store (Little Shop of Hardware in Baltimore) seems to have prices on par with what you can find online (but not quite as big a selection, obviously!). Plus, you don't have to pay for shipping, or deal with RMAs, and you get to support your local economy.
Liberal (adj.): Free from bigotry; open to progress; tolerant of others.
Noisecontrol here in Germany seems to make reasonable ones. Surely, you can get a supplier in US or elsewhere for their stuff.
Search ebay and those "opinion-sites" for some weeks to get a feeling of what is good and what is bad.
Never buy the cheapest.
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
Another advice is to try to combine 1-2 parts to be bought from the single retailer.
Advice 3: watch bargain web sites, especially http://www.techbargains.com/ and Anandtech Hot Deals forum.
My advice for various retailers:
- http://www.directron.com/
(great source for cases, and various mechanocal necessities and cables)
- Dell Peripherals, if you manage to catch the needed part (drives/etc...) during a good sale.
- Someone already mentioned http://www.newegg.com
- Another site i have found to have great price and service in the past is Z-Buy.com
These sites account for most of the insides and peripherals of my self-built Athlon 1.3G box.Hope this helps,
DVK
"The right to figure things out for yourself is the only true freedom everyone shares. Go use it"-R.A.Heinlein
http://saveie6.com/
coupons coupons coupons!!!! www.techbargains.com www.fatwallet.com www.techdeals.net (free shippin r0x0r)
www.newegg.com and http://www.compuplus.com are my favorite online retailers, I hate pricewatch, most of those places are dirty bastards! make sure you check http://www.resellerratings.com/ for info on any place you find from pricewatch.com I usually go local for motherboard/drives, they only seem to be 10$ or so cheaper online, but drives and cpus have been alot cheaper online in my expierence, ive never bought a complete system worth of components online, because there are good prices locally, so maybe mix and match?
treetopy@hotmail.com
(And I'll throw in a "me-too" for those recommending Newegg. More often than not, they will have the lowest price, or be within a few percent of the lowest price.)
Well, Greg, if you have to come to slashdot to ask lame questions about pc parts. I would suggest gettin yourself a Dell "dude!". Either get a backbone and do it yourself or go buy one, but dont waste are freakin time with ignorance. I can the next story from you in a few weeks being... "OK, I've ordered a motherboard, cpu , harddrive, case, powersupply, etc... But I'm unfamiliar with how to put all these things together.."
crucial.com for RAM
newegg.com for everything else.
Newegg has great combo specials (i.e. buy an AMD, get $5 off selected cd-rw drives).
As for shipping, it's FREE 2nd day FedEx from crucial and reasonably-priced FedEx standard from NewEgg. I just ordered some new components--My RAM from crucial arrived overnight, and my newegg components got here in two days, not bad considering it came halfway across the country.
VIA motherboard and Shuttle all aluminum case....very low cost...very high quality.
http://www.shuttle.com/english/default.asp
Between the two of those site, you should be able to make a decision. Both don't have the greatest selection, but they do have good prices and decent service.
Domains for only $8.75/year! Transfer your domain for on
check http://resellerratings.com to see other customers opinions about the shop. Pricewatch may find you the cheapest prices, but bad service will cost you more pain and suffering in the long run than a couple of $$.
I've also had good luck with newegg (which many other people also pointed out) which receives a 9.41 rating!
Let someone else take the risk of screwing up a motherboard and needing to buy a new one. Retail vs. wholesale's a pretty small margin, it's not worth it to me -- especially since I've got a small work area.
I'll use pricewatch or Yahoo shopping to get upgrade parts, though.. no problem.
be sure to check out these customer reviews of online retailers.
Gyrate Dot Org - "Where high-tech meets low-life"
I just put together a list of exact components
I want and send it to 2 or 3 small computer shops.
One with best price/service is the one I
buy from. When buying from the net you have
account for shipping cost/time, also it usually
takes a lot longer to resolve problems.
Most small shops will "burn-in" your system so you
don't have DOA componets and you know they work
together.
Artur...
-- ZeroZenith
For components, I usually shop Newegg.com or Mwave.com and I buy everything at the same time from either one.
But for memory I recommend Crucial.Com. Memory is one thing that you definitely do not want to buy the cheapest that you can find. Cheap memory is can be flaky memory which then leads to a flaky system. At Crucial prices are usually competitive, the service is very good, shipping is nearly always free, and they are very good on handling returns. Like others, I recommend getting all of the other components together from one vendor, but I would buy the memory separately from Crucial.Com unless the price difference is substantial.
As far as whether or not you save money by building your own... about the best aspect of it is that you can leave out the parts that you don't want. If you are running Linux, you don't have to buy a copy of Windows that you will never use. If you have pretty good speakers already, you don't have to buy another pair that will end up on the shelf gathering dust. Dell let's you customize a little, but building it yourself you can customize it completely and save money by not buying what you won't use/don't need.
(and no, I don't work for Crucial... I just like the place)
When you're shopping around, you'll notice that you'll often have the choice of getting motherboards with everything on them (sound, video, LAN, modem), and those that don't have anything built on them. While I usually favor modular systems, it is getting to the point now that some hardware is so cheap and progresses so fast that if performance is not a big issue, it may be worth getting an all-in-one motherboard. If you're just looking for a cheap little computer, and you're not concerned too much about quality, the all-in-one motherboards are the way to go. Otherwise, you should stick to motherboards with as little as possible or nothing on-board (sound seems to be a more common exception to this nowadays).
Unless you live in a really remote location, go to a local computer shop and either buy the parts from them or have them put together a system for you.
I've found the prices of the local "mom and pop" computer stores generally kick the shit out of the big chain stores and online stores, and there's no shipping to worry about. Plus you can actually go talk to somebody to get advice or if something goes wrong.
If you do this, buying the parts and building the system yourself is still probably your best bet, but sometimes shops have good deals on prebuilt systems that might (depending on what you need it for) be good enough.
I have to say I really like pricewatch.com. Last year when I was upgrading my system the company I ordered all mobo/cpu/ram from (which I found from pricewatch) didn't even bother to charge my Credit Card. So, I couldn't complain about getting a free abit mobo, 1.13ghz cpu and 256megs of ram for free.
How do you take a picture of the best moment of your life?
---------------
This space for rent.
The biggest problem with building your own is that you're the only one that can troubleshoot it if the system is DOA when you put it together and power it on.
As a computer technician I can tell you that all I am is some guy trying to figure out what's wrong with your computer.
And it is cheaper to build your own system. Those folks who say it isn't don't know how to shop or where to shop. You don't pay the guy building your machine and you don't pay for the OEM's comprehensive warranty, thus allowing you to get it cheaper. Don't get me wrong, this isn't something my grandma would do, but hey, you're a nerd. Deal.
So sure, you can like the other folks have already mentioned, use pricewatch, pricegrabber, even mysimon to find good prices on QUALITY components. But don't buy cheapie stuff--the best part of building your own system is that you can use quality parts and get it done for the same price as a system manufacturer might with cheap stuff!
But then you go to a store with a good reputation, such as Dell, NewEgg, Buy.com, etc. to buy all the stuff at a higher price. The best part is when you whip out the Amex Gold card to pay for it. Then you call American Express up and tell them that you found all these items for cheaper at other websites (referencing your searches above). They kindly cut you a check for the difference.
This way, you get the best price and the best service. Ahh how wonderful.
Details on doing Amex pricematching are here which is a link on www.xpbargains.com. XPBargains is a very cool site by the way.
Check out our infosecurity industry blog: http://securitymusings.com/
I personally use the same vendors most often but will use pricewatch to find deals when buying individual parts. my Fav vendors are:
Two things I strongly recommend: Don't buy a monitor over the 'Net unless you're getting an excellent deal. The shipping on monitors can be astronomical, and if it breaks shortly after you buy it, the ability to take a lemon to a local store, even if it is a Best Buy, is well worth a few extra bucks out of pocket initially.
Second, don't buy a case you haven't physically examined. This may not be as important, but if you don't get enough bays, you can end up hosed. Decide how many external bays you want for floppy drives, CD-RW/DVD, etc. and how many internal bays for HDDs and so forth, then go look at some at your local mom and pop store.
Otherwise, you may end up with a case that's too small, limiting the number of devices you can put in it and making working on it very, very difficult if it's cramped internally, or ending up with a huge case with more room than you need that simply takes up space and is a general eye-sore.
Buy the President
Before you buy from ANYWHERE, check out ResellerRatings. You may not thank yourself (or me :-) later, but at least you won't be cursing yourself and the fly by night vendor that screwed you. Just remember to keep in mind: People (in general) are much more likely to bitch about bad service than praise good service.
:-) And although they aren't always the cheapest, Axiontech has always treated me right as well.
That said, I've been really happy with NewEgg for equipment. For some higher end (or rather specific) cooling equipment, 2CoolTek is really good. Crucial is great if you're looking for high-quality RAM. PCBoost has never given me any trouble when dealing with less expensive RAM. And everyone and their brother will mention Pricewatch.
People have said good things about MWave, but I ordered a pair of NICs from them a while ago and they shipped in an old motherboard box without any padding -- rattling around loosely! Luckily they both worked.
But these are just MY experiences -- yours may vary.
Go to best buy and get the VPR Matrix, they are basically what you would be getting if you built it yourself, the only bit more that you would have to pay is for the convenience of being able to pick one off the shelf and take it home today
considering i build about one system every two months ill give you three pieces of advice
;-) }
dont spend alot of money on small things (fans cables etc.) best and cheapest place to get fans is nexfan.com , and everybody charges something similar for cables
two aviod unknown and unresponsive sites, alot of companies dont move quickly this is a pain because it slow down the time to get the product and if you have an issue they dont respond very quickly (directron.com is a good example they are slightly over priced and Customer service sucks , l-buy.com is just plain god awful)
three consolodate , get four or five parts from each vendor and they may give you a discount. and it will definetly save you money on shipping.
these are my personal fav's
newegg.com (kinda pricey but they are fast and have a good selection)
nexfan.com (fastest site i have ordered from mostly just cooling products though)
crazypc.com (case mods)
tufshop.com (hate the name like the prices)
i personally go out of my way to aviod
directron.com (see above)
l-buy.com (slow and unresponsive)
again these are just my personal opinions and dont reflect other peoples POV
oh and did i mention thinkgeek.com {i need some karma
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." --Albert Einstein
parts list:
tyan tiger mother board + 2x 1800+ athlon MP + 2x coolermaster = $497 shipped from micropro.com
Geforce4 Ti 4600 128MB DDR = $302 shipped from fticomputer.com
black aluminum case = $83 from pccase.com
4x 256MB PC2100 Registered ECC RAM = $307 shipped from crucial.com
Antec 400W power supply = $72.55 shipped from cruxworks.com
Western Digital 100GB 8MB cache 7200RPM HDD = $160 from z-buy.com
Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum w/ live drive+remote = $157 from L-buy.com
Plextor 24x10x40 Plexwriter CDRW = $113 from z-buy.com
total = $1703.32
"dude, your getting some power"
pricewatch is the bible of our day. all hail the mysterious 'q' at the bottom of the results page.
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
Here in Cambridge, MA, PCs for Everyone is considered one of the best small companies. They sell parts, will build a custom pc, and offer a few pre-built pcs.
Around here (NW America) small computer shops always have the best prices. They compete with other local shops and it pretty much pushes thier prices down to about as low as you can get them. You can get most any component you'll need and often they'll assemble it all for you for free, if you want them to. I've buit several computers this way and had nothing but good experiences. Of course there's no tech support number to call..... but if you need that you shouldn't be building your own PC. Great prices, local availability, and you're helping out the little guy.
In short, if price is a concern, don't build it yourself
I have to strongly disagree with that statement. I have built my last two computer myself from parts, and I have to say that not only did I save a significant amount of money, they are very good, fast, and stable besides.
The secret here is that you pay attention to the parts that you are using - don't buy the most expense top-of-the-line parts, buy all around good ones. Set out your requirements and start building out the design. Pay more for the items that are important to you, don't pay for those that aren't.
If you are careful, you can save 10%-40% of the cost of one of these systems from a major outlet (like Dell) and have a very good system to boot.
As someone already pointed out PriceWatch.Com and others are great for finding the best prices on components. But before that you need to know what to look for. Personally, I find Tom's Hardware to be a stellar source of information on what to buy. And it is geared to the do-it-yourself'er. There are others in this vein as well. Lastly, there is the tried and true realm of hard printed matter. Namely Computer Shopper. Though it doesn't seem to be what it used to... Enjoy.
Consider this though - when you buy from an OEM, certain things are set. You have no choice but to spend money on an OS, MS Office/works, etc, a crap video card (usually) and so on. When you build yourself, you can put your money where it works best. A 2ghz p4 with a TNT2 isn't much compared to a 1.5 with a recent geforce.
;). I've built a few PCs myself and it always ends up cheaper, because I cut costs where costs should be cut.
Also, an OEM has to pay its employees and when you build yourself, you dont
My server
>go buy that P4, it may cost you well over $400 or >even $500
;)
Thats why you use an AMD chip
I am currently in the same situation.
First, you have to figure what you want to buy. Read reviews suchs as Tom's Hardware and Anandtech (to name a couple).
Second, get an idea of the minimum cost by searching pricewatch.
Third, find a vendor to buy from:
Pricewatch: I have been burned by the cheaper companies before, so I make sure they have a good return policy.
Large Internet Suppliers: I usually end up buying things from amazon or buy.com (who are now starting to sell components), there are also huge component stores like newegg.com.
Local: But I've found the best service comes from local reatilers, because you can get the part replaced or exchanged the same day. It is up to you and how much time you want to spend.
This topic is going to create some huge flamebait.
vossman
Furthermore, even if the components are cheaper, it's difficult to find them all fomr the same place and cheaper. Once you start going to multiple places, the difference in price is quickly overcome by shipping charges.
Don't forget to figure in how much time you'll spend dinking with putting it together. While you may have the skills, if they aren't 100% current it could take you anywhere from an hour to a saturday to do the work. I recently bought a prebuilt PC for just this reason-- I needed to get to work *that afternoon*, and it was well worth the extra $50 or $100 I put into buying prebuilt instead of building it myself. And then I had one company to point at when I had problems with the PC (electrical storm, cable modem, boom), as opposed to keeping track of individual components.
please
No, really. I'm serious. What's it worth to you? 2 weeks ago I asked myself the very same question and decided that building yet another PC myself just wasn't worth the annoyance, frustration and the cost of my time. Not when I was finding some damn good prices on fairly high-end Vaio systems. If you're not sure, just take whatever you make at your job and figure out what they pay you hourly. Then think about exactly how much time you're going to spend getting the parts, putting them together, troubleshooting when it doesn't work the first time you turn it on, and then returning the one or two things that just aren't right or don't work. Add that to the cost of the parts and then see if it's still less expensive.
I guess if you still think of building PCs as fun, there's no real question of what you'll do. I left that state of mind some years ago. But if it really does come down to what's better, do the math and be honest with yourself.
"Suppose you were an idiot..... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeate myself."
MWave always accepts returns without a hassle. They are extremely fast about shipping in-stock items (I've been known to order after 6PM CST and they shipped it out that evening nearly every time--they're in California so it is after 4PM there, still impressive). And they are always polite and helpful whenever I've had to speak with them. Their prices aren't always the lowest, but they don't overcharge on shipping the way a lot of PriceWatch vendors do, so the bill comes out similar.
Anyway, I've learned that saving two dollars on a new motherboard just isn't worth the headaches of dealing with a bad vendor. I've been screwed out of $1100 because of idiotic return policies before (Googlegear.com, avoid those useless stumps at all costs), so I view MWave as the best value even if they aren't the cheapest price.
So, my suggestion:
MWave.com
They have nearly everything I ever buy...
Let this anecdote stand as a warning: my company was purchasing a big lot of equipment from a Swedish company a few years ago, and I went there to inspect their quality standards.
They showed me how they bought pre-tested parts from wholesalers, according to certain standards. They said they prefered to let others do the testing because, sometimes, reject rates were up to 40%. It wasn't that the parts didn't work, but they weren't up to the best standards, they were less reliable overall. The parts wholesaler could work perfectly well with those reject rates, I was told, because the parts that didn't pass the Swedish company standards were sold cheap to Chinese manufacturers.
The bottom line is, unfortunately, that cheap parts are always, by force of the economics involved, less reliable than similar parts bought at higher prices from the better manufacturers.
I've bought from PCBoost a number of times. They have reasonable prices, their service is pretty good, and they've got a good selection of hardware.
newegg.com tcwo.com mwave.com
"I drank what?" - Socrates
At the time of this posting, 3 of the 5 posts moderated over 4 have mentioned Newegg.com. That should tell you something, and I agree with the posters. Prices are good, and service is good too. I've done an address correction with them as well as a defective product return. With good timely results.
For other companies, check out www.resellerratings.com which is a user contributed site that ranks the quality of companies. I think they're using a 10 scale now, so I make it a rule only to order from companies ranked 8 and over.
--------
It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
The only knowledge that can be gained in assembling a computer is more-so the progress made in restoring an old computer using common-sense trouble-shooting skills that every person should have developed by their twelfth birthday.
Compaq and IBM have offered verry competitively prices PCs and you just can't beat their value. Sony is a nice PC, but it's costly. eMachine has made the most inexpensive PC in the history of computers. eMachines can sell you PC with good so'and'so hardware and no monitor for no more than $400.
Compaq sells the best desktops and IBM sells the highest quality laptops. Dell is simply too expensive; I remember when the Pentium II was released and Dell sold their best Pentium II motherboard for about $1200.00.
What does it all boil down to? Alot of people simply like to participate and do everything themselves. It's that "customization" factor and the skills of today are what land you the jobs of tomorrow.
To rap it up...
THIS IS A TROLL POST! This is my favorite picture of a beautiful red-headed girl strutting her strap-on dildo. It's far better than
I'd have to recommend www.tcwo.com if you're in the US. I've went through this company to put together 3 different boxes so far, and have had no problems at all. Also, the best thing about them is they offer a FLAT rate of $6.95 for 3 day shipping (last I checked). If you're going to be ordering a case, plus a bunch of other parts...this will come in handy. Hope this helped, good luck!
-- Rob Hensley hensleyrob@nku.edu http://www.zoidian.com
Build it yourself. You have more control over what hardware you get, what software you install, and how much you wanna pay. It's so simple and takes only about 2 hours to put it together even if it's a really complicated box. I highly recommend it.
a lot of people have mentioned newegg.com, and i would recommend them over and over, you can also check out premade systems for ideas with a wishlist. also i have used computersupersale.com in the past and they were great also. the newegg prices aren't bad. g'luck. it's more fun to build than buy.
www.qsopht.com ~q
I have had nothing but good experiences ordering from www.mwave.com. You can order everything you need from there its what I did the last two times I build computers.
http:\\www.pricewatch.coms .com
http:\\www.techbargain
http:\\www.techdeals.net
and the forums on anandtech.com
I just did this in april. I had followed the same exact thought process. "Hmmm. Order a dell, and get support/service, but not exactly what I want. Build it myself, get no support but exactly what I want".
So I ordered from a few different places, pretty much depending on price. I got most of the componenets from newegg.com. NECX Direct could (amazingly> beat newegg.com in a couple of places so I got some componenets from there. I got my case and PS from Dump Computers because they had a case that I liked the looks of.
Everything I ordered came in a reasonable amount of time (the stuff from NECX and newegg came incredibly fast). The stuff from dump was a little slower, but then it was also the biggest (being a computer case) and only came UPS ground. All the parts were as advertised and came packaged well and worked! All in all, I'm very happy with my experience.
BTW - I don't work for any of these companies and get nothing in return for this review. I'm just calling it as I saw it.
Does this give you any idea on where is stand?
I usually go here first. They have never screwed me, although their selections may be limited in some areas (sound, video cards,...)
These days, big companies really have an edge in terms of how much they pay for parts, especially for the things you don't think of, like power supplies, cases, mice, kbs, modem/Ethernet cards, etc. When building a computer people tend to think 'CPU, mobo, ram, hd' and not look at the price of the other components.
You'll save money if you just want to swap out the mobo, cpu and hard drive of your current PC, but if your looking for a whole new machine you'll save money going with the big guys.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Before you go off and spend time building something, do the math:
Where:
hours = the number of hours it'll take you to research, order, assemble, and debug your machine, and install the operating system and drivers
hourly = your hourly rate (roughly salary/2000)
cog = cost of the materials
taxrate = your tax rate (e.g. 0.38)
x = cost of an equivalent pre-assembled machine
If you know enough to assemble a machine like this you're probably paid highly enough that it's not worth your time, and you're better off buying something pre-assembled.
Where can I find a slower CD-ROM. 8x or 12x or
so. The newer 50x CD-ROMs make way too much
noise.
I'd recommend you check out www.pcsforeveryone.com which is in the Cambridge MA area. They provide "near custom" services where you can put together pcs at almost the level of detail you would when doing it yourself (Like choosing which fan, which case, etc...) They're pretty clueful, know about Linux and can pre-install it, won't charge you for an OS if you don't want one, etc...
Even if you don't buy from them, it's worth reading their commentary on which parts are best and which parts work together / not with linux / etc...
Actually, it was bad/good. I built a computer, powered it up and nothing happened. After trouble shooting for a could of hours I figured it was the motherboard. Amazingly, they were helpful, and tested it for me (although i was pretty sure it didn't work) and replaced it with minimal hassle. Unfortunately, the rest of my experiences have been poor. understatement
- You get exactly what you want, e.g. stuff that you can be sure works and plays well with Linux. You can be sure you're not cutting corners with case or cooling.
- You can be sure that you're not paying the Microsoft Tax.
- There is a certain amount of satisfaction from doing it yourself, even if all you're doing is hooking together a few major subsystems.
Con:Check out www.ncix.com. So far I've been very pleased with them and unlike most other sites, they are located in Canada so you don't get nailed with $40US of international shipping and another 40% for duty.
:-)
Check it out eh!
The only thing that will stop you from fulfilling your dreams is you. - Tom Bradley
I have found that buying a complete system is generally, I repeat, generally, cheaper. I have not figured out why as there are labour costs involved.
The advantage of build your own, IF you are comfortable doing so, is that you pick the parts.
I just did some quick comparisons of the Canadian compaines mentioned above and the best is one that is not, PCCanada.com
If you're so sure, why not give us a component rundown with prices so we can see for ourselves. I seriously doubt you could pull that off especialy from a regular consumer store like frys. don't forget the cost of the Case+PS, of the flopy drive, the keyboard, etc.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Be sure to realize that just because you build it yourself, you won't necessarily save money. There are quite a few times when you'll actually pay more than buying an OEM. The reasoning, though, is you'll probably buy better hardware than a conveyor-belt operation will give you. That isn't always the case, but you do usually get what you pay for.
Take, for example, your motherboard. If you want a mobo on the cheap, you could always go with ECS. Their KT333 mobo runs just about as well as anyone else's (they use the same chipset) but it's the options that get you. An ECS KT333 will run you $75, but a Soyo KT333 will run you $150. It's the same chip but nowhere near the same options.
Aside from that, NewEgg is a great company to order from. They aren't always the absolute cheapest, but they have a ton of stuff and they are a very good company to give your money to. Plus, they usually have good shipping rates (sometimes free) and they will deliver to your house door, even if you're not there to sign.
JJ
Why not support some of the local businesses? There's bound to be a few small computer shops in your area and it's places like that who need your support more than any web based business. :)
You get to visually inspect every part you buy before you pay for it, which is very important when it comes to your case and any other external parts.
However the best part is you get your part the moment you part with your money. Then it's a short trip home to the screwdriver.
-= I can't think of anything witty, creative, or insightful for my sig, so deal with this. =-
For a complete system, you may not be able to save much, if any at all. However, for about the same total price, you'll usually get a better spec and more flexible HW if you built it yourself. Usually brand name computer has motherboard that is a little behind (especially when something just come up), and sometime not very flexible, if later you want to upgrade/modify. For example when DDR333 has just been released, you could get bare motherboard that support them, but you would not be able to get a brand name system that support them for sometime. Brand name system often has less number of memory slot than the better of the barebone motherboard you can get.
I would recommend that you do some research on the HW, and come up w/ list of HW that you like, and then check pricewatch and techbargain for the best price.
Is MultiWave in southern California. Their prices are lower than any "local" computer store, and often, mwave is a supplier for local computer stores. If you live in the area, you can make an order online and go pick it up immediately.
Also, they won't rape you on shipping. Typically, shipping is cheaper than California tax (8%) so it really it a great buy no matter where you are. Only once in my five years of working with them has a part arrived bad, and they immediately shipped me out a replacement and paid for the return shipping of the bad item.
If an item is out of stock, the website says so in real time, and usually says when they are expecting them in. The format is very similar to www.newegg.com, though MWave came first. (sorry folks, looks like the egg was second!)
Just head over and build yourself an example system. You will not be disappointed!
2. You can control what goes into the computer 1. You learn quite a bit about what goes on inside your computer, and you can have a lot of fun at the same time... (rather geeky fun)
My local shop costs 150% - 200% more then online vendors, not to mention they know what devry taught them about computers and not much else. I prefer web vendors unless I need a part ASAP and can ignore the large price increase.
Try Reseller Ratings. When I used to buy individual parts routinely, I always checked out suppliers there first, to see how good they were for speed of delivery, customer service, and most importantly, returns.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
sigh... but anyways -- the answer you seek is not short, but can be summerized: it depends on what you want.
lets have a few scenarios:
1) you want the fastest, most elaborate PC there is for whatever compensatory reasons. build you self all-the-way. pricewatch, pricegrabber, gotApex Deals, techbargains, and dealwalk are all fine sites to look for deals. flamingo world have some stuff too. pricewatch and pricegrabber gets you the goods, and the rest of them get you the "deals", for example Dell is selling a 20" flat panel (very nice, i have one) for ~1600 -- yesterday you could have gotten it ~1100. just have to check those places everyday. and oh yeah -- go to overclockers.com and find some people to sell you waterblocks, you will need it.
2) average man wanting an averagely fast computer. build can get you more customization and you can "grow into it" more... for the longest time dell would lock the MB so you can't swap processors! and then you can't tweek the MB on ram settings, blah blah either. price is similar if you go and find a good deal. a P4 2GHz can be had at dell for ~600 bux -- no way you can beat that, sorry, especially if you are in CA and have to pay tax+shipping for everybody from pricewatch.
3) your mom/dad. buy one -- in fact, buy one used -- or even better, sell them one of your old, "retired" ones.
4) laptop users -- buy -- because there is no options here. but today unless you are really into water cooling and all that, a laptop gives you the same speed / blah blah anyway. i have a UXGA on my laptop -- sure i have to squint when i look at things, but whatever. p.s. get a good vid.card if you buy a laptop: they are not upgradeable -- however if you are REALLY desperate you can get processors for laptops (micro-PGA) from ebay.
in the end -- for what we want to do (fast system, blah blah) building does not save money. but it's like hotrodding. i have gotten out of the gig a while back (o/c, etc etc) and wont turn back. it's just too much trouble. my laptop has 64M vid.mem and can run most of the games i need it to (and if it really runs bad, it's just a productivity killer anyway). i hope the sites listed in (1) helps -- they are the better ones i can come up with. and have fun -- and last thing. save the reciepts! if you build yourself you WILL, by laws of probabbility, have crap happen and you will know good and well what's an RMA *real* fast.
lastly -- to make everything work out by building -- you will be continously upgrading your hardware. which means
1) you need to recompile the kernel a lot / reinstall windows a lot
2) know ebay like the back of your hand. this is probabbly the only way you have a system that mostly works, does not cost you TOO bad, and you won't have tons of spare parts lying around.
so is it worth it?... well? what is "having a customized PC" worth to ya?
My life in the land of the rising sun.
The only knowledge that can be gained in assembling a computer is more-so the progress made in restoring an old computer using common-sense trouble-shooting skills that every person should have developed by their twelfth birthday.
Compaq and IBM have offered verry competitively prices PCs and you just can't beat their value. Sony is a nice PC, but it's costly. eMachine has made the most inexpensive PC in the history of computers. eMachines can sell you PC with good so'and'so hardware and no monitor for no more than $400.
Compaq sells the best desktops and IBM sells the highest quality laptops. Dell is simply too expensive; I remember when the Pentium II was released and Dell sold their best Pentium II motherboard for about $1200.00.
What does it all boil down to? Alot of people simply like to participate and do everything themselves. It's that "customization" factor and the skills of today are what land you the jobs of tomorrow.
To rap it up...
ab
a THIS IS A TROLL POST! This is my favorite picture of a beautiful red-headed girl strutting her strap-on dildo. It's far better than
I keep going back to Mwave. There service is great, never have had issues after 10= different orders, all personal. Bought a new mobo, proc, and ram week and a half ago from them... I always sucker up for the 2day shipping, so the west coast to east coast thing isn't too bad.
I built my own system about 4 years ago. Recently, it became obvious that the time had come to upgrade. Instead of buying a whole new system, I just replaced the motherboard, CPU, and RAM. This cost me $500 (P4 1.8 GHz, 512MB). I'm not a gamer and my hard drive is big enough (11GB). So, I had no need to replace the video card, sound card, hard drive, CD-ROM, case, etc. This obviously saved me a ton of money, and the new box has more power more than I need. I highly recommend that everyone looks at this option before replacing their whole system.
Not relying on Pricewatch for memory is stupid. By all means, get a good brand of memory (I'll go for either Crucial, Mushkin, or Corsair), but you owe it to yourself to shop for the lowest price on said memory. And Pricewatch is the place to find it.
I have found through building the last three of my computers, that if you make yourself a list and go to the local computer show you can get away with building yourself a computer for almost half the cost of a mass built machine. Plus you have the ability to make decisions on quality and brand name (ASUS vs. PC-Chips / INTEL vs. AMD) and also you have the ability to have the product in your hand.
:-)>
Plus there is the added side benefit of being able to go back to the person and doing an exchange if you get a bad part (happened only once with a hard drive, I had bought it on a Saturday and went got a replacement the next day.)
Always make sure to find out the exchange policy, pay cash for the best price, and keep your reciepts. These guys are selling ecess from the big guys so you'll have the same problems the big guys do. Every once in a while you might get a problematic part.
Basic List:
Motherboard (Might have the following embedded)
Video
Sound
Modem
Ethernet
[Just because they are embedded doesn't mean you have to use the stock... but if they are embedded, is there a cheaper one which doesn't have "on board" video, if you plan to replace it?]
CPU
CPU fan - You'd be surprised at home many people forget this. The sales person will remind you though.
MEMORY The more you can afford the better you'll be, but don't forget the memory limits of Win9x's You might want to limit yourself to 512 to be safe.
HARD DRIVE (With the price of drives lately go big you'll always find use for the extra space... especially if you're running MICRO$OFT Windows(TM).
CD-ROM (Do you want CD-RW or DVD-Rom prices are about the same)
FLOPPY - And don't forget about floppy wether you get a legacy floppy or a zip drive, you'll need to get something to move those ciouple of files. (I didn't and felt stupid afterwards when I realized it).
CASE - Once you have the idea on what size of a Mother board you'll have you can take a look at cases... Most Cases with accept all Motherboards, but some require a motherboard with a smaller form factor if you get a micro case. And don't be surprised to see cases have the largest range in prices (with prices between $15 - $200 depending on what you want.) The main rule would be get one you like the looks of and make sure the power supply is beefy enough. I'd suggest at least a 300 WATT and a 350 WATT would be better.
OS - Linux is cheap and if you slurged for a big drive you can run mulitple OS's easily.
And finally get yourself a keyboard and mouse you'll be comfortable with. Most of them will be open so you can get a rough idea on how they'll feel. Comfort is important, don't get something that look cool but hurts. (And if you have the extra cash Logitechs Wireless Pro Keyboard and Optical Mouse is a nice way to go).
Monitor wise it depends on what way you want to go. Low impact or are you going to be gaming. And with monitor prices the way they are, you miht be able to make a better deal on that at your local Office Depot. You want a monitor that clear and will work the best for what you plan to do most. Office work will do fine on a TFT (LCD monitor) but it doesn't refresh enough for fast action, so for games take a look at CRT monitors.
--
Patrick Havens
You can get a computer from Dell/Gateway so cheap now that it really isn't worth the time to build your own. After you buy everything I doubt you save hardly any money from building it yourself. You also get the added benefit of warranties and support if you need it. If your monitor breaks - no big deal - Dell will have you a new one in a day.
Damn! I should of gotten a Mac! Thats you will say in Month when Apple anounces FireWire @ 800Mb.
Building a computer from "scratch" is a great experience for the average geek. I typically start at www.pricewatch.com.
One bit of advice is stay away from building computers for "friends." I've built some for friends, the problem is that I'm not only doing the favor to build the system, but I'm stuck with having to give live-long tech support. Have a friend buy a Dell, and let Dell deal with the problems.
When you build a computer for yourself, you know exactly what goes into it, and what is installed -- so troubleshooting is alot easier.
man is machine
Coincidentally, I submitted a similar question to Ask Slashdot before I started but it wasn't accepted so I was on my own. I just built my own PC from scratch -- I ended up using Arstechnica to help me out. The cool thing about Arstechnica is that they provide pricing (using the PriceGrabber engine), user ratings, and 3 suggested systems broken down by component.
I ended up buying most of my components from different web sites using Arstechinca's recommendations as a guide. Looking back, I might have saved some money on shipping if I would have gone with the same company even with slightly higher prices per component.
One thing I would suggest from personal experience is to buy as much as you can locally, even if it's a little more expensive, just in case something goes wrong. I had a problem with a motherboard I bought from a Canadian company. 3 weeks and $30 in shipping later I finally have a mobo that works. Even though they took the motherboard back I was still reponsible for shipping.
Another disadvantage of DIY is that you typically don't get OEM discounts on software. If you'll just be running Linux then that isn't an issue, but Windows folks generally pay a little more for a license.
All in all, even with the problems I ran into, I would still build the next machine myself. The satisfaction of doing it yourself goes a long way.
Who am I to blow against the wind? -- Paul Simon
If you can get the parts locally then that might be your best bet.
I'm a tech for a small wholesale parts company and if you can find something local that will give you a warrenty of some kind its usually better that dealing with someone on the other side of the country for getting replacements or RMA'ing parts for you.
But building your own is definatly the way to go. Stay away from the All-in-blunder Mother boards.
Local stores are great sometimes because some of them will offer you products tax-free if you pay by cash. Doesn't happen often, but if you ask, you can get it (maybe). Other than that, search www.pricewatch.com for all your shopping needs. I have spent over $20,000 (not all for me =P ) through the internet and the majority (at least upwards of 90%) of the stores are great with reasonable warranty and return policies, etc. Here are a few that top my list: http://www.newegg.com http://www.buy.com http://www.googlegear.com There are several others, but those are the three that are usually the best OVERALL.
When building a system from scratch I try to buy as much as I can from memman.com. Outstanding customer service, cheap prices, and flat-rate shipping. Lifetime warranty on RAM.
I ordered an Athlon XP and a low-end CPU cooler from them recently. They called me a short while later, and apologized for not having the heatsink I wanted in stock, and then offered to send a rather high-end solid copper cooler instead. No extra cost, of course.
Another time, there was some manner of trouble with the order, and I wasn't aware of it until the next day. It was sorted out quickly by the time I got a chance to call them, but after I hung up I felt a little bummed that the parts would be a day or three later in arriving.
Unbeknownst to me, they upgraded the shipping to 2-day FedEx instead of ground. The stuff showed up on Friday, instead of the next Monday or Tuesday like I expected.
This level of service seems to be par for them, and I've been giving them as much business as possible since I discovered them sometime in the mid-90s, with a cheesy ad in the back of Computer Shopper.
Contrast this with other online vendors, who will sit on your order for several days, silently, and have no idea who you are or what you want when you call to ask where your hardware is -- the people at memman.com seems genuinely interested in keeping customers happy, and are a joy to work with.
I'm beyond pleased with their level of service.
(Nope, I don't work there. I'm not a shareholder. They don't advertise on my porn site. So on, so forth.)
Kid-proof tablet..
If you do build your own system, remember that static electricity is your worst enemy. Always, always, always, before touching anything that will go into your computer, remember to lick the metal frame of the case.
The best places I've found are small, local shops that specialize in selling PC parts. Here in Minneapolis, there's a store called TranMicro. If you buy all the parts there, they'll even put it together for you for free.
And a lot of them have really reasonable prices on most of the hardware. And anything you don't want to buy there (second hard drive, DVD drive, etc.) you can always install later, yourself.
First check with pricewatch.com, to get a feel for average prices per component, and then shop around from their links. Make sure you check the website out and that you don't sense any red flags. If you can't find out how to get an RMA within a couple minutes of clicking around, you should probably stay away. I'd also check warrantee and return policies online, before ordering anything.
The best place that I know of is www.mwave.com. I have ordered around $300K in systems and parts from them over the last five years and they've never dropped the ball on me. They will cross-ship if you get a defective component and they are pretty much hassle free. They won't make you spend hours diagnosing the problem with a tech before letting you send something back. Best of all, their prices are usually within about 1%, either way, of those you'd find on pricewatch.com. Sure you could save $10 on a $1000 system by ordering from all kinds of different vendors, or you could get it all at one place.
Mark
That's quite an assumption. What happened to slashdot's Linux and *BSD majority? Did everyone here give up and go to Windows or OSX?
In case the poster doesn't know, you can save tons of money on your next PC by skipping the Windows tax and using a free, open-source operating system. email me and I'll mail you a CD of your choice of Debian Linux, FreeBSD or OpenBSD to install on your shiny new PC.
Sheesh, ya gotta know I'd bite on that one.
Easy peasy.
--
Dual Athlon Workstation
CPU type: Dual Athlon MP 1900
Two AMD Athlon MP CPUs
Asus A7M266-D dual motherboard
IO port: 2 x USB, 1 x Parralel, 1 x Serial, 1 x PS2 keyboard, 1 x PS2 mouse
1024mb PC2100 DDR SDRAM, 2 DIMMs
WD 80gb Caviar ATA100 drive, 7200RPM
Toshiba SD-R1202 16x10x12x40 DVD/CD-RW combo drive, ATAPI
nVidia GeForce4 TI4400 graphics card, 128mb w/ DVI
ViewSonic PF790 19" monitor, flat
Teac 1.44mb floppy drive
Mid tower ATX case with 6 drive bays
Logitech 3 button mouse
IBM 104-key PS/2 keyboard
SoundBlaster Live! 5.1
Altec Lansing AVS500 5PC speaker system
MS Windows XP Professional installed for multi-boot, w/ CD/docs
Total = $2,950
Please note that I just used up as much of your 3k as I could, by upgrading the monitor, processor speed, speakers and giving you XP Pro.
Don't even mind giving the source.
http://www.swt.com/duala.html
i dont want to be argumenative or anything
but it has been my expeirience that OEM's such has asus, tyan, ati etc. have alot better warranties than say sony or hp.
has far has price goes i just built this system
asus a7v266-e + amd athlon 1800 = $220
512mb of ddr (256x2)(cas2 crucial) = $70
40gb western digital 7200rpm 8mb cache = $60
case (sf201b)= $140 really nice one from directron to bad it took them a month to get it to me
ati radeon 8500dvi (64mb ddr)= $120
pioneer dvd slot feed = $40
total with fans and shipping = about $850 --bear in mind thats with two day select on most items including $65 for the case alone
seeing your baby compile the kernel in under 4 minutes = priceless
and id like to know what stock system comes with 5.1 surround and a video card thats comparible to that. and i wont go into the cheap fans they use or the cas3 ram they use , not to mention the power supply etc
(the power supply came with the case 400w antec, and i already had a burner)
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." --Albert Einstein
I'd rather have a moderately-priced PC with high quality components than a cheap PC composed of bargain-bin parts. The manufacturers of the higher quality components are going to stand behind their product by continually updating and fixing drivers and firmware and promptly replacing the component if it goes bad. You just aren't going to get this from super cheap components.
The store I work at builds our own PCs using components from Asus, Toshiba, Intel, AMD, IBM, Nvidia, and Seagate. We never go for the cheapest product and we always watch for which companies will stand by their warranties and provide up to date driver support.
I've built and rebuilt/upgraded at least 20 computers for myself and maintain 7 computers in my home alone running various OSes and flavours of them. If you want a PC that will run any OS out there you need to build it yourself, because the big OEM builders won't check every item to make sure there's a Linux or *BSD driver available for it, not a chance.
Duris MUD - The best pkill MUD. Ever.
building it yourself means you can strip out the useless stuff.
For example, processors are very very fast now. For games, you can get by with an AMD Duron 850, meaning mb + proc is about $160. The money you save on that you can put towards getting a solid graphics card and some extra memory, which is the stuff that makes your machine work for you for games.
I recently built a pc and found good deals at www.compgeeks.com and www.computerra.com. Both had good prices and good shipping. Computerra had a better selection but you can get cheap used stuff from compgeeks.
Roughly, when I built my home PC, I started here:
http://arstechnica.com/guide/system/index.html
They regularly update their 3 machine specifications: God Box, Hot Rod Box, and Budget Box, inorder or price and goodies, of course. But what they mostly include is advice on buying what parts, why to buy them, what to look for if you're not buying that exact part, and how to buy the parts you need for the best price. The last part is most important. You can buy the same piece of hardware you need at many places on the net. The key is getting it the cheapest. The price comparison places I've been using are:
http://www.pricegrabber.com/
http://www.mysimon.com/
http://www.pricescan.com/
http://www.dealtime.com/
Some other people said getting your cpu, mem, and mobo from one place. I'd like to say almost that. CPU and mobo, for sure. But I always buy my memory from
http://www.crucial.com
It's just not worth risking on something so cheap.
Th
BTW, he's been voted the most annoying person on God's green earth! Check it out! He's #1 on the annoying list!
LOL
Disclaimer: This comment was generated by a Flock of Trained Microsoft Programmers for Aqua_Geek.
Personally, I like pricewatch, which has already been mentioned several times. You won't find a single vendor that has good prices on everything, though. I usually end up ordering parts from 3 or 4 vendors every time I build a PC. Some vendors I like:
googlegear - If you really want to do the one-stop thing, this is who I suggest. They don't have the best prices, but they're usually close and they have a huge selection.
teamexcess - They have a great clearance section if you don't mind stuff with cosmetic blemishes. I've bought several "B-Grade" 20" and 21" monitors from them and have always been happy, especially since they've cost me under $200 each, including shipping.
There are more whose names I can't remember off the top of my head. I'll post them in a reply to this when I get home.
I've seen TigerDirect mentioned, but I'd avoid them since you're concerned about price. They carry just about everything, but even their super sale prices are pretty high.
I definately recomend building your own. After shipping and tax you really won't save that much, but you will know exactly what you have since you picked it yourself, hopefully with compatability in mind, which can be very valuable if you run anything other than Windows.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Support you local computer wholesalers and resalers. Use the yellow pages and find out where they are located, as they tend to clump. I get all my parts in a shopping center that has dozens of small wholesalers. I never buy from just one. I start at one end of the strip and price my parts at every store. In the end, I go back to the ones that gave me the best deals. In Miami, the strip is located near the airport in a warehouse district. That will probably be a common location for such stores.
t'nera semordnilap
This is obviously not an insightful nor informative post, but I do need to ask a question as most of the posts here are directed toward (god bless 'em) the American consumer. My question is what retailers have you Canadians had success with?
I know I could just ship them from the states, but most people really don't see the hidden costs. I've ran up bills of $70 in shipping from ThinkGeek when the cost of the products is just over 100. Unfortunatly it still costs money to cross the border and if the retailer isn't so great, they might ship the out of stock items at a later date and the in stock items first running a shipping cost of nearly double.
Carl B. Feldbaum - President, Ext. 9221, cfeldbaum@bio.org, biography
Marlene Vence-Crampton - Executive Assistant to the President, Ext. 9221,
mcrampton@bio.org
Ray Briscuso - Executive Director, Ext. 9225, rbriscuso@bio.org,
biography
Jean Lamb - Executive Assistant, Ext. 9223, wjlamb@bio.org
Caroline Ruggieri - Manager, International Affairs, Ext. 9224,
cruggieri@bio.org
Board of Directors
BIOETHICS
Michael J. Werner, Esquire - Vice President, Bioethics, Ext. 9518,
mwerner@bio.org, biography
Wendy Taylor - Director, Regulatory Affairs and Bioethics, Ext. 9216,
wtaylor@bio.org
Katie Sawyer - Coordinator, Bioethics, Ext. 9519, ksawyer@bio.org
COMMUNICATIONS
Dan Eramian - Vice President, Communications, Ext. 9235, deramian@bio.org, biography
Lisa Dry - Director, Communications, Ext. 9231, ldry@bio.org
Debbie Strickland - Director, Publications, Ext. 9233, dstrickland@bio.org
Peper Long - Manager, Media Relations, Ext. 9232, plong@bio.org
Doug Schulz - Web Site Manager, Ext. 9236, dschulz@bio.org
Carrie Housman - Coordinator, Communications, Ext. 9234, chousman@bio.org
Faye Wang - Web Site Assistant, Ext. 9237, fwang@bio.org
MaryEllen Enos - Communications Assistant, Ext. 9235, menos@bio.org
BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT & EMERGING COMPANIES
Morrie Ruffin - Vice President, Business Development & Emerging
Companies, Ext. 6630, mruffin@bio.org, biography
Their prices are already waaaay lower than someplace like Future Shop, and they also handily beat out all the local dealers. I have no experience with Dell, so maybe their prices are good, but with NCIX's system packages there is no "mix-and-match" parts - they have these systems ready to go. Configure them if you want. I was on there the other day and to put together a bare bones, 850 Duron system was $400 CDN (minus monitor/keyboard). That's about $250 US!
It cost me less to get them to ship a samsung stick of ram (that's with an $11 CDN shipping charge) to where I live than it did to get it through local dealers.
Thus you have it all - prebuilt or configurability, good components that you want, and best of all cheap price. Oh, and they also have minimum 1 Year warranty (you can buy more). "Building" it yourself is definitely the way to go if you can find the right dealer.
mwave.com tends to have reasonable prices (sure, you can find cheaper deal on pricewatch) and have a good return policy. plus, they will assemble and test motherboard bundles.
"...but then I heard that the best and least expensive PC's are 'white box' systems that are custom build by small, local companies."
I've found this to be totally untrue.
I've worked in Public and Private education technology since 1997, and know people in the Private Sector and Public sector buying and working on computers, and the WORST Windows PCs are those made by small local companies.
Support sucks.
Lowest end parts.
Lowest amount of QA.
Crappy workmanship.
Terrible workplace standards when it comes to being clean, exact or even having clean power or CDs.
I'll build my own, but I will not buy, or tell someone to buy a locally built computer.
Never, ever.
I'm in Portland OR and I'll say there isn't a decent "white box" builder from Longview WA to Medford OR. Same goes for Denver, Rapid City, Pierre and Sioux Falls.
I used to order all of our corporate PCs from mpipc.com. You can up- or down-grade any individual component (upgrade the motherboard with the money you save on not getting an MS keyboard, for example).
At one point, you could build a decent tower for $250, but obviously that's the barest of bones.
Like most people are saying, use PriceWatch for the best price, but use ResellerRatings to reduce your chances of being screwed. http://www.resellerratings.com/
One advantage to "doing it yourself" in building a computer is that you pick up the skills to understand how to work with the innards of a computer. It's become a lot easier these days with Plug and Play (or Plug and Pray as it may be) peripherals and such, but it's still an educational experience.
Building your own system will basically force you to research each, individual piece. Which CPU should I buy? Which motherboard? What kind of RAM does that motherboard take? Why should I go with Foo Company's video card over Baz Company's? What's the difference between IDE and SCSI? And so on.
Having this kind of knowledge will also come in handy when you want to upgrade your computer. It'll also come in handy when a friend of yours needs to have his/her computer upgraded as well.
"Teach a man how to fish and he won't go hungry" and all.
--
http://www.aikiweb.com - AikiWeb Aikido Information
- Pick the motherboard first. Your main board is without a doubt the most important part of the machine. Don't skimp - buy the best. Everything else is easily replaceable, and nothing sucks like a slow or buggy main board.
- Buy as much RAM as you can afford, and the slowest CPU your chosen motherboard will take. Then wait 'til CPU prices come down to upgrade. High-end CPUs are consistently the most over-priced component you'll buy.
- Spend some time picking a case. Buy one that's easy to work on and has lots of room.
- Shell out some dough for the best (not biggest) power supply you can. You don't want part of your shiny new system fragged by bad power.
- Buy a great monitor. My monitor has lasted me through 2 complete rebuilds of my box (3.5 years), and has another few years left. The monitor is the most expensive single component, and the only one that you can never upgrade.
- Unless you're ready for some pain, don't be a doof and try to overclock. The few % performance increase isn't worth frying a CPU, plus it means you don't need a $75 fan that sounds like a wind tunnel.
- Be prepared for a bit of a pain in the ass. Don't count on manufacturer tech support to help you much - they'll mostly point fingers at other components. This is the part that sucks compared with buying a Dell.
Buying advice:This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
a few pieces of advice:
1. use your old stuff for extra computers -- experimental servers, kids computers, etc. It's not worth selling, so might as well use it and just upgrade annually.
2. NEVER ever recommend to a person you sort of know that they build their own. YOU will be helping them when they can't figure out that socketA != celeron or something like that. At the very least, they will blame you for all those bent pins.
3. IF you need to go cheap, fine. But atleast avoid the worst retailers and brands. In otherwords, get inexpensive, not cheap.
Now, I go to newegg.com. before that, I'd go to pricewatch.com and double check the companies at resellerratings.com. At the very least, check resellerratings, google newsgroups, etc.
Mwave.com is the place to shop. I just got a new computer from mwave.com and I have bought most of my past components there. They have good prices and are willing to take returns. You can setup a custom box online, chosing your own components, and they will build it for you. Some times you can even get them to drop the assembly fee ($75). If they build it, you get a 1 year warrantee. And best of all, no MS tax!
My opinion is the best deal is to decide exactly what you want by doing your research on the web. Choose, motherboard, CPU, memory, video, sound, hard disk, case specs, etc... Then, find a local white box assembler that will build it with a warranty. You have a couple advantages:
1) It will probably cost less because the white box guy might add say $100 to his cost for profit. But, buying individual pieces might have much more than $100 in profit included. (Just example, don't know actual profit.)
2) If something doesn't work, you can walk in with the box, and harass the vendor personally, it is much harder to ignore an irate customer face to face than over the phone.
3) Warranty.
Do it yourself is really only advantageous if you can upgrade piece meal, and cannibalize your own system. For example: my next upgrade will be whatever Athlon and MB I can get for ~$150, 512MB DDR memory (appropriate for MB), and a GeForce4 card (4200 probably), everything else will carry over from my current system. Total cost will be a little over $400. Maybe less depending on memory prices and Geforce4200 prices.
Dastardly
if you want to get amazing deals in canada check out canadacomputers.com - i don't think they do purchasing online, but you can do mail-order. i've looked very hard all over the web and other local shops and i've very rarely found better prices on any of the equipment they sell.
check out my comic: Essential Tremors
Building your own is great on price and parts but the tech support bites. If you feel comfortable going it alone, by all means shop away.
Guide to Educated Online Buying
1) http://www.google.com
Your first step should be to research the product/s that you are considering to put in your system. While many products look very appealing a review may shine light on severe problems that you would have never have noticed unless you found out for yourself. There are tons of Tech websites that review products read several so that you are making an educated buy.
2) http://www.pricewatch.com
Pricewatch is hands down the best Street Price finder on the Internet. At pricewatch.com you can find almost anything that you're looking for to build your computer. You should know what OEM, White Box, and Retail mean so that you don't end up with just the product itself and not the box / drivers. Another thing to be aware of is that sometimes the companies set their own warranties. For Example: If you buy a licensed retail version a 3yr warranty is included. If you buy an OEM version the warranty may only be 15days. It's very hard to return a faulty product to a vendor in 15days since most require you to get a Return Merchandise Authorization (RMA) first. Before you decide to buy please see step 3)....
3) http://bizrate.com/ (especially the: ratings guide
Part of making an educated buy is knowing WHO you are buying from. The business-rating guide is a collection of ratings from users who have bought items from a company. By reading their experiences you can get a better feel of whether or not the company is reputable. This is a very important step, there is nothing worse then getting ripped off by a company that is thousands of miles a way.
4) Brick and Mortar Stores:
Don't forget regular stores. While some stores may not be the most friendly of places (Fry's Electronics, Best Buy, etc.) they do have occasional deals that are much better than anything you'll find online. So keep your eyes on the newspapers for advertisements.
5) Paying Online / Deals That Are Too Good to Be True
Our final step is to pay for the products. Make sure when you pay that the site has some sort of secure buying system. I realize that some companies are run out of their home and might just use PayPal, BillPoint, etc... Just be careful when you're giving out your credit card number.
Deals that are too good to be true: almost always are. Stay away from people who sell $3,000 items for $400 when everyone else on the Internet is selling them for $2299. It will save yourself a lot of time and headaches if you don't fall prey to people who are running scams.
Building your system yourself is definitely the right choice. Not only does it give you the freedom of choosing the right components it also helps you learn just how your computer functions. It's a really fun and exciting process. Enjoy!
It seems like this company is well liked by /. readers. I wonder, does this company lets you buy stuff in person from it? Has anyone done this yet? I live near that city.
:)
Thank you in advance.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
1) Offer no support
2) Send you broken items and charge a 25% "restocking" to return them
3) Not send anything at all and claim loss in shipping
4) Any number of other sleazy tactics
I suggest that you filter anyone you choose to buy from through Reseller Ratings. I rarely have problems when dealing with people high on their list.
As surprising as it might seem, letting that local shop order components for you and assemble it may actually be cheaper than buying the components yourself. The days of 50% markup over cost on PCs are long gone, now it's more like 2-5%. The shops can buy in volume and get better deals than you can. Come up with a spec on your PC and ask some of the local shops for a quote before buying the components yourself.
You send some of those yankee greenbacks up here in Canada, where you get a nice shiney toonie....
http://www.oemexpress.com
many are priced for brown box buyers, various warranty terms etc. You want it, they got it.
For me its only blocks, for you, a click.I think I'll take a stroll and pick up a nice Abit MAX.
Also, if your buying a Honda Odyssey van, they are several thousand dollars cheaper. So pose as a true Canadian (see Strange Brew, The Jackel, etc), since the dealers are bound by Honda not to sell the cheaper priced Canadian vehicles to Uncle Sam's citizens, lest they figure this deal out.
"Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes." --Henry David Thoreau
Check out arstechnica for more information on homebrew PC's. They have a lot of information regarding reviews of components of computer systems, as well as letting people on to deals on new components. Good site.
Other good sites that people mentioned in previous responses are: anandtech and toms hardware for component reviews, and pricegrabber and pricewatch for finding the best prices on things online, and newegg is just a great online company that is very reliable and inexpensive for purchasing lots of electronic/computer components.
I drink to prepare for a fight; tonight I'm very prepared. -Soda Popinksi
The two places I got the parts for my last machine were CDW and Xxera
Here are the only 3 sites you ever need:
-Newegg.com - they have most everything you want at very cheap prices.
-Pricewatch.com - to check prices of other places.
-Resellerratings.com - to check the reputability of the vendors found on pricewatch.com
Haven't seen anyone list this one - The Computer King.Com. They've got a good selection of stuff, but as always you gotta shop around, different places have different deals. I agree with a lot of people here by also recommending Newegg as one of the best out there.
I also find that PriceGrabber is a good site for comparison shopping, I prefer it to Pricewatch when it comes to finding reputable dealers.
Don't forget the incredible satisfaction of building your own machine, and watching that baby turn on for the first time...(and die straight away if you have my luck).
Take a look around, you may find that it is not necessarily worth it to build your own. A lot of the white box builders charge less than $50 (the one I use locally charges $30) to assemble and test a custom PC. When you are talking about something that is already costing $800 to $1500 or more, the extra cost doesn't quite make it to the "quite a few bucks" category, and it can save you a lot of hassle, especially if you have to deal with a bad piece of equipment. I have both built my own and bought preconfigured, and if I am buying a full system at this point, I will go with a custom preconfigured every time. I just don't need the headaches.
anandtech.com has a forum set aside for Hot-Deals. There many good deals regardng computer equipment. I check there first.
-THIS SPACE FOR RENT!
If you're into it to save yourself money, it's probably not worth it. If you want some custom parts then it's definatly the way to go (especially for an AMD system).
One thing I'd point out is to get a good case... I got myself a pretty cool one from colorcases. One thing I don't like about pre-built computers is that they're a severe pain in the ass to work on. And don't skimp on the power supply either.
I ended up buying everything from NewEgg.com. And they do not screw you at S/H time!
You might want to try out Shacknews's new parts store, Shackstore
They have really really cheap prices, and you can order every part separately, with good descriptions and such.
I work at an ISP, and build tons of systems. I get all my parts from Netlink and they have by far the biggest, most detailed database of parts for order (us and Canadian pricing) on the web. Give them a shot for wicked pricing as well.
Hope that helps someone out.
3-Server OC-3 Linux Counter-Strike Cluster
www.rnp.ca
I built my PC a couple of years ago. I have had no problems with it. My then housemate also built his. A third housemate (who is knowledgeable with computers) aided him. He didn't put motherboard separators in and screwed the motherboard straight to the case. About a year ago it kept crashing. My friend bought a new motherboard. This also didn't work. We assumed that maybe the processor was fried. Then I discovered the separator issue. On a hunch we tried the old motherboard with separators. The PC worked. The only thing that was required to solve the original crashing problem was a re-install of Win 98. I thought of this right at the beginning of the issues but we never did it cos he didn't want to lose his MP3 collection and didn't have a second drive then.
Sorry if this anecdote is a little off-topic but I feel that it is important to know what you are doing if you want to build a PC. Personally I'm going to get a Shuttle bare-bone kit next.
C
There's no problem that cannot be solved with a suitable amount of high explosives
I agree with everything in this post except the part about the case. Dell and Micron have some of the best designed cases I have every seen. Single screw or even push button to open designs with all the sharp edges removed. You just can't find these cases at places like Newegg, and the places you do find them, the prices are nuts.
How about laptops? Anyone know of a different way of purchasing a laptop system that isn't "pre-built"?
Mark
Building a system from scratch is *always* cheaper, if you know how to find deals. Cruise deal sites like DealsGT, Fatwallet, and anandtech's deal forum. Some examples of deals I've run into..
$35 32x Lite On/Mitsumi CDRW
$30 Maxtor HD
$5 3COM NIC
$130 LG 19" montitor (one of *the best* 19s you can buy for any price)
All new, all from reputable dealers like Staples or OfficeMax
http://arstechnica.com/guide/system/index.html
Good resource for putting together a system, keeping prices (mined from pricewatch.com) in mind.
Step zero, figure out what you want to do with it. Do you want high-end sound? Gaming? Video capture? Entertainment system? Are you going to lug it around to LAN parties? This will help you trim things down.
First, go to TomsHardware.com, pick up a copy of MaximumPC, and hit other sites like ArsTechnica to read up on articles of importance to your project. You will need a rock-solid motherboard, don't get caught up in overclocking madness and other BS. If this is the first time you've built a machine you've got a lot of stuff to school yourself on without toasting a CPU or mobo. Wait until you know what you're doing. Baby steps. Check out compatibility issues, etc.
Second, don't do this to save money - you won't. Building a box isn't a way to save, it's to be assured that you'll get exactly what you want put together exactly how you want it. Also remember that you are your own warranty and that OEM equipment doesn't have the same warranty period as retail stuff in most cases. Also if you return stuff, there's usually a huge (20%+) restock fee, so make sure you're ordering what you think you're ordering. Caveat emptor.
Third, go to newegg.com or mwave.com and configure yourself up a box. Newegg will let you save your cart and whatnot, mwave is still stuck in 1997 in that regard. Anyway, poke, configure. Design your box around your specific wants and needs. Nip and tuck.
Certainly use pricewatch as a guide, but trust me - it's ALWAYS better to order your parts all from one place rather than be kept waiting for a CPU or couple of sticks of RAM to trickle in. Plus, there's less hassle if something's DOA.
Next, pick up a PC Upgrade & Repair book and a basic toolset. Read, read, read. Check your order to make damned sure that you didn't forget anything. If you're too squeamish to put the whole thing together yourself (you should put it together yourself, IMHO) you can get mwave or someone to prebuild it for your and tweak it when it comes in.
Anyway, if you decide to put it together yourself schedule a free weekend - yes, a whole weekend. Use common sense, a clean worktable without errant drinks or chips, anti-static gear, and a Zen-like ripose. Before you start tearing into your hardware READ THE MANUALS AND HOW-TOS FIRST.
Let me say that again: READ THE MANUALS AND HOW-TOS FIRST.
One more time, because since you're building it YOU are all the tech support you're ever going to get. READ THE MANUALS AND HOW-TOS FIRST. Check erratta online, grab the latest BIOS for your motherboard and drivers for your gear. All the drivers that come on your install CDs were out of date before the CDs were finished duplicating.
Having a running box and broadband handy to grab patches and do research while you construct is invaluable. So is the advice/help/EMT of a friendly geek buddy if you get stuck. Don't bug the crap out of your friend; I HATE being roped into a newbie install at 6:00PM on a Saturday night.
Anyway, make sure you have all your OS and application CDs laying around. Grab the latest ISOs of your favorite distro and make boot floppies.
There will be twists, turns, and headaches. But you'll get a sense of satisfaction and - over the years - invaluable experience with all kinds of wierd hardware and odd situations. Bask in pride as you fire up your very own custom box!
Check with the BBB..avoid Tiger!
Best:
Newegg. Not the cheapest, but good and have never had a problem.
Axion Technologies Never had a problem, lots of interesting stuff in their surplus section - always worth a browse.
Computer Surplus Outlet Good for very cheap systems that you can tweak with a few extra bits, especially old P2-grade machines at ridiculously low prices and occasional weird stuff. Component prices aren't all that good, but they often have specials (I got a heap of P2 Xeon 400s from them, with heatsink, for $9.99 each.)
Worst:
CNet PC
They marked a delivery "no signature required" without telling me. When the package never arrived they just said "not our fault" and stopped replying to my emails.
Another piece of advice: if you're ordering from out-of-state to avoid sales tax, remember that it's going to be a lot harder - probably not worth your while - to take them to small claims court...
What would Lemmy do?
A good place to see all the good deals is pricegrabber.com. I don't like pricewatch.com because many places stiff you with outrageous shipping. Pricegrabber is more reasonable and have a ratings guide on each vendor. If you really want to use pricewatch, make use of www.resellerratings.com.
Recently, I got a PIII 1GHz laptop with UXGA (1600x1200 native resolution) from Dell for $1000 shipped, after rebate. Difficult to beat that. What does this mean? It means you need to do your homework to know whether building a PC or buying a pre-built is a better deal. Another good site to get good specific deals is techbargains.com. For general deals, they also rely on pricegrabber.
shopper.cnet.comhas a lot of listed stores. Anyone have experience with them? --Fritz
Several posters here have made a very good point which you would be wise to take: Don't build your own just to save a few dollars as it isn't worth the trouble -- and it will be trouble, especially if you do "lowest price" on components. You'll end up with an unstable piece of crap if you do this.
Sheesh, buy a Dell. They're inexpensive and their service is excellent (I'm a most happy Dell customer.) Since they're big, they have clout with manufacturers and you get good component costs. If your machine craps out they fix it (my Dimension 8100 had a DVD drive die within the first two months. They sent a guy out and he swapped it out for me. I fully expected to get a new drive in the mail instead.)
Don't cheat yourself on this: You can easily end up spending dollars to save pennies.
Everything in the Universe sucks: It's the law!
While I will not argue, for a second, that it use to be far cheaper to build your own PC, I must question whether this is still true.
In the past years I have built numerous systems for myself and friends, at considerable savings. But, more recently, the price of a pre-built PCs has plummeted. Prices have dropped to such a low level that I really wonder if you can still beat the price when building from parts.
Now, I mean the same parts, no substitutes. You can't compare the savings you got building your system from AMD processors WingDing Memory and NoName drives to a Compaq using an Intel with Samsung Memory and WesternDigital drives. Even if you can match or beat the price, is it enough to justify the trouble.
There are also other considerations. Warranty is one of them. But there are also support issues. I know that we "geeks never need help fixing our problems" but, there are sometimes issues with firmware or software conflicts that a large vendors help may prove to be invaluable. I guarantee that the component vendors will produce updated firmware and drivers for the Compaqs and Dells before they look to the white box users.
After all these years, the sub $1000 PC makes the point moot for me. For under $1000 it just isn't worth my effort to acquire and build from parts. It's much easier to just unbox and power on.
But watch the Heavy Items. They ship from California, so you may be better off buying the Case/Power Supply at the local Best Buy or CompUSA or whatever. The rest of the stuff - CPU, mobo, RAM, HD, FDD, CD, etc. - is lite.
ANTEC - best cases and power supplies
ASUS - motherboards, video cards
KINGSTON or CRUCIAL - RAM
LINKSYS - NIC's
Also it's good to look at Tom's Hardware and do a search for anything you are thinking about buying. Even if you don't find the model you are thinking about, you can probably find other products made by the same company and get some idea of the quality.
Secondly, when you build your system, start with just the case, motherboard, RAM and video card. Make sure this base configuration works before you start adding things to it.
The price was great and the specs looked great compared to other similarly priced systems. When I got it, I found that everything inside was junk. Ultra cheap memory, crappy hard drive, no-name shit-bag mobo, ultra crappy video card, etc. Needless to say I was very disappointed. I believe things have improved in the "white box" deparment since then, but you still get what you pay for.
When you build your own you get a few benefits:
- You know exactly what's in there. No searching around for obscure drivers for no-name parts that no one has ever heard of.
- You get top quality in every part you use (up to your budget).
- Buy the "retail" version of a part and it will almost always come with a one year warranty.
- Personal satisfaction!
- No small time vendor to go out of business and not honor your warranty or provide service.
- A computer with better specs than the "white box" system for roughly the same price that is 2-3 times better in quality.
So while it may not be the cheapest option outright, I believe you get the most for your money in the long run. I build 5-10 computers a year now for family and friends (and occasionally myself...).Some tips when building your own:
- Beware of online retailers, some are reputable, some are not. When I built my first computer I bought at the lowest price I could find from all over the country. I got more than a few parts that were obviously returns from previous purchases. It cost money to return and some would not take back. Be careful who you buy from. (I found a local dealer who is as cheap or cheaper than what I can find online that I always buy from now.)
- Do your homework on parts. Visit tech sites like Tom's Hardware, anandtech and others to find out what parts match what you are looking for.
- Be careful of OEM buys. It usually means they come with no accessories (like cables, drivers, software bundles, connectors, etc). Often the price of the extra stuff will make up for the difference in price between retail and OEM.
- Also remember that retail boxed items usually come with a warranty. OEM usually does not.
- Tax often offsets shipping. Nowadays a lot of online retailers will charge tax even if they don't have to and pocket the money. Buying locally you pay tax yes, but it's often the same cost or cheaper than shipping.
- Make sure you know what you are doing. Building a pc is NOT rocket science, especially with jumperless motherboards, but there are often little details that you may never have heard of or considered that can cause damage or frustrating hours of downtime. (40 vs 80 pin IDE cables. Master vs. slave jumper settings on drive. AGP slot vs. card voltage, proper cooling fans, etc.)
- Stay the fuck away from Fry's!
One note here, when you add a monitor into the equation, things get a little trickier. It's often VERY hard to build a system with a monitor for the same price as one you buy "white box". I invested in a nice monitor a while ago and it's lasted me 5 years (still going strong). I figure with the frequency I would have to replace a "white box" system upgrading my monitor as I go, it paid for itself over time.For reference, I just put together a DAW with ASUS P4T mobo, 1.8GHz P4, 512MB RDRAM, 2x40GB EIDE 7200RPM hard drives, GeForce 440 MX video, DVD/CD, ethernet, case for under $1000. I don't think I could find something that REALLY compared for anywhere near that price.
Be very careful with local stores, though. I wouldn't trust those people to put together a system. Some of these shops are good, but many hire completely incompetent people to put together the computers or cut corners whereever possible. Double check that everything is solid before you pay (enough fans, each hard drive/cdrom on its own IDE cable, power supply is >= 300W, decent case, etc).
Home-built is generally more expensive, not less.
You are paying full price, where Dell, etc get a huge discount because they purchase so many.
Also consider:
- misc component conflicts
- cheap, un-supported components
- BIOS issues
- no tech support for your specific configuration
To paraphrase: "homebuit machines are only cheaper if your time is worthless."
The Big Boys also hire people to test and document their various configurations, to create and update driver disks, etc.
Sure, you can absolutely do all that yourself, but why? You can built your own radio too, but why?
If it is for fun, do it. If it is to save money, don't.
=brian
www.krex.com be great for sweet deals from memory to white box
www.axiontech.com have sweet cheap stuff for networking
Both these guys I've used for 2+ years now and they tend to be prompt in shipping and excellent honoring warranties.
BEWARE of www.compuplus.com as I've had issues with them regarding falsely advertising the actual products they sell. Don't let the cheap prices fool ya.
just a piece from the southeast
-roynuj
Most manufacturers and online places don't give warranty on a motherboard. This means if your board fails in 3 month you will have to fork another 100$+ for a new one.
Try to find a deal on motherboard with warranty. I get mine at Fry's, 2 year warranty costs about 15$.
After building for myself and various friends and family over the years, here's one point of view: 1. It's not cheaper to build. The bottom of the line PC's will always be cheaper than you can build DIY. This is likey due to the powers of mass purchasing and mass markets. On the other hand, if you are putting together a top of the line PC, the markup for a "brand name" is usually not justifiable. "Off brand" top of the line PCs usually have a reasonable price for the "I just want to buy one" types. 2. It's much better to build. The quality of parts that you put into the system are usually much higher than any manufacturer will use. Unless the manufacturer bothers to promote the video card/disk drive/memory/etc by stating the exact make and model, odds are it's a generic whitebox or built-into-the-motherboard. These guys are in a tough market, and they cut corners on the pieces inside to stay in business. 3. It's easier to expand after you build. With a little prior planning, you won't get a motherboard that lacks sufficent PCI/memory/whatever slots. Plus you can call the shots. Want SCSI?, plop it in. As long as you don't get an integrated motherboard, upgrading the sound/video/network card shouldn't be very difficult. 4. It's easier to reinstall after you build. You installed the OS the first time, so you can burn your system down to the ground and build it again. You know it will work the second time, as it was tested by the first install. Problems encountered: 1. Often you become your own support desk. Not always a problem unless you don't trust your knowledge about the OS you are running or about basic hardware setup. But if you are building this for someone else, remember they will be calling you to sort out their last failed install of XXX. 2. The first install can often be the cruelest. Didn't know that card YYY was unsupported? Plugged that IDE cable in backwards? You'll find out soon. 3. Bugs lurk in partially configured systems. You'll set up that network card driver later, like when you need it... sure you will! 4. Constant upgrades lead to piles of junk. Now that you know the ropes, it's so easy to drop in that latest video card. Never mind that you have no home for all the others you pulled out of your system.
If I was going to buy from the web, I would definetely check out PriceWatch
However, I would look to someplace like Fry's Electronics before I look to the web. You can find steals at Fry's. For example, Fry's had an ECS Motherboard and AMD Athlon XP 1700 CPU for only $129 US dollars. I bet you will not find a combo price that low on the web! Rocco
http://www.pricewatch.com. Best place to find prices.
"Actually, I enjoyed this in the same vague, horrible way I enjoyed the A-Team" P. Opus
Most vendors on Pricewatch (the first page or so of the lowest prices) are generally dishonest -- you'll get bad (or no) service if anything goes wrong, and they make up for their lower prices with overly high shipping costs ($40 or more for something that can be shipped for $10).
:)
So lookup each vendor you are considering in Reseller ratings -- and don't just look at the number, read the reviews.
It is generally not worthwhile to build a *whole* computer from scratch by yourself, unless you want:
a) the best components
b) to slowly upgrade it piece by piece over time.
Nowadays getting a computer from Dell or Gateway is cheaper (or just as cheap) as building it yourself (with the same components). You can also try walmart.com
Oh, and http://www.essencompu.com/ is pretty good -- they don't have the very best prices (but they are quite good), their shipping is actually in line with reality, and the service is excellent.
"You have the option of insanity. I do not. And that makes me crazy!" - Brian to Angela, My So-Called Life
Are you serious? This is just continued proof of the slide of /.
I can't beleive this is the dribble that is being posted now. I think that Taco needs to take a good hard look at some of these Editors....
--And sektor spoke and said unto the people. Hey, buttwipe hand me the cheezeos.
If you end up deciding to build your own, another good place to check out is googlegear. I order just about everything from there. They have acceptable prices and are very professional.
Also excellent are
http://www.mwave.com
... and, for more esoteric case-related parts,
http://www.directron.com
There's no point in dealing with the hassles that other online retailers will subject you to.
'jfb
To spur "enterprise Linux," Big Bang, the distributed two-phase commit.
they were bought by internet.com, i believe, and almost got shut down during dotcom crash.
recently, founder bought them back and the new, well-designed site is now up and running
Here are a few recommendations:
Price Grabber. Think Price Watch without so much sleaze. Plus, they offer peer merchant reviews!
Googlegear. They have good service and many of their items have free FedEx 2nd day shipping!
TCWO. They are a good place to buy CPUs.
Hope this helps you out.
vi ~/.emacs
I use www.tcwo.com. I'm actually doing the exact same thing right now. I also used this site to order the parts for my server (running redhat).
They have everything, even operating systems. Although I would never buy an OS from them, but their hardware is cheap and good,
Hypocrisy is the 8th deadly sin.
I just built (like 3 weeks ago) a box with the following:
Soyo Dragon Ultra MB (10/100,Audio,IDE RAID)
Athlon 2000 XP+
512MB 2700 DDR (1 stick)
2 - 80 GB Western Digital 7200 RPM 8MB cache
(striped for sweet performance)
128 MB MSI GeForce3 Ti200 w/128MB and DVI/TV Out
Antec black tower (sweet case) w/ 400 Watt PS
Microsoft keyboard/mouse
ADS Pyro 1394DV
LiteOn 40X/12X/48X CDRW
25 32x CDRW cakebox
All of this shipped including tax was right around $1300. Just amazing.
I got it all about 3 days after ordering (basically 'cause I live about 30 miles away..2 days to process everything, 1 day in transport)
"All I ask is for a chance to prove that money can't make me happy."
I have bought a total of 7 systems over the past 2 years or so from newegg, as well as various upgrade parts. Definatly the best place to get quality parts.
Something no one else seemed to mention is their incredable selection. No place else can match the price and selection of this site.
As an ebayer would say: Great++++++ would deal with them again!!!!!
TCWO is where I purchased my parts last time I did an upgrade (about 3 months ago). They had really good prices and great web/phone support. I had a problem with my order and emailed them (I put only 256MB RAM instead of 512MB) and they got right back to me and fixed it.
I had a problem with Tiger Direct about a year ago. While their prices are allright their service is terrible. Phone support is nonexistant unless you want to be on hold and then told to call back later when Mr. X is in and their products seem to be a bit diffrent than what they give. Heck, one time they didn't even send me the product!!!
There are three really good reasons for building it yourself. You touched on one -- the ultimate in configuration. If you build it you know exactly what goes into it and can get exactly the parts you want for the performance you want.
Second is the experience. What better way to learn how a computer is put together than to put one together?
Third is the sheer fun of it. Putting a computer together is easier than building a skyscraper out of Tinkertoys and when you're done you can surf the Internet (or whatever) on your finished product. Can't beat that!
Someone you trust is one of us.
Actually, I got an "Evercase" screwless case from newegg, with a hefty 300 watt PS (I say hefty because sometimes you can tell they overrate the supplies by the light weight of them), for like $40.
No sharp edges, and you can even take the front panel off without a screwdriver (and with access to only one side of the computer), something I have never seen before.
Space for like 6 hard disks, in two little trays that slide out, one of them is mounted on the floor of the case. All drives can be mounted without screws, or rails, including CDROM and such. You can add screws for extra stability if you want, there are places for that too.
All metal edges are rolled over, and a neat feature is that even the PCI cards can be screwless, there is a little rail that snaps in overtop of them, and you don't have to screw it down (but again, you can if you want to).
Newegg still has these cases as their front page item, above the fold, as it were. Go check them out. Inexpensive, and very nice. Surprisingly nice.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Lifetime warranty on the Micron memory. Best ram I've ever purchased.
/.
Do yourself a favor and check out www.compgeeks.com, they pretty much always have awesome deals on a wide variety of new/refurbished desktop systems. Their inventory is always changing too, so you never know if you're going to stumble across an awesome deal. Example: Celeron 1 Ghz, 256MB Ram, 20GB HD, 256MB Ram, 16X CD-RW, Modem, Keyboard for $400. However if you want something a little more high-end for games and multimedia I say build it yourself. You'll be happy you did.
A couple of other people suggested tcwo.com, and I tend to agree. After an extensive research done about a week ago, I came up with the following result for my needs. By the way, they don't charge for shipping or tax, so what you see is what you get. on their web site. In the end, when you factor shipping and fax into the equation, tcwo.com beats newegg.com on nearly every single price.
- CPU: Intel P4 2.26 533MHz FSB $279.00
- Case: Antec Perf. Plus1080 430W Beige $146.00
- MOBO: Asus P4B533E i845e DDR S/R/L/U2 (NIC integrated, FireWire integrated) $205.00
- HDD: Maxtor 80GB U133 7200 2MB version $117.00
- RAM: 512MB PC2700 333MHz $116.00
- Monitor: Hansol 19IN/18V 1600X1200 96KHZ 25MM 920D OSD MPRII DYNAFLAT $289.68. provantage.com
- GPU: Visiontek XTASY GeForce4 TI4600 AGP 128MB DDR (VIVO) $392.00
- Sound: Creative Labs Audigy X-Gamer 5.1 $89.00
- DVD: Samsung 16X DVD Retail $59.00
- CDRW: TDK VEloCD 40X/12X/48X EDIDE $133.95. compuplus.com
- Input Logitech Cordless Optical Mse/KB $79.00
- floppy: Beige 1.44 FDD $14.00
- Voice/Fax/Modem : USR v.90 56k voice/fax winmodem $24.00
- FireWire : integrated with MOBO
- NIC : integrated with MOBO
TOTAL (w/ tax and shipping, w/o any software): $1943.63 (as of June, 17 2002)I couldn't find what I wanted for CDRW and monitor on tcwo.com. Also, GPUs are a lot cheaper (up to %50) on some other sites, such as www.essencompu.com and compuplus.com.
*Dislaimer: I'm not affilicated in any way with tcwo.com, nor do I make any claim for accuracy of the prices listed above. Check them out yourself. That's why I linked them to actual price pages.
The web is a dominatrix. Everywhere I turn, I see little buttons ordering me to Submit.
One of the bad things about DIY systems is that if anything goes wrong, you have to fix it yourself. You can't send/bring it back and have the builder fix it. Due to the internet, finding people to help you troubleshoot isn't too hard, but finding the time and dealing with the frustration is what turn people away.
That said, it's a great way to learn. I agree with people on newegg in terms of price. I usually buy most stuff either online or at local computer shows. I always buy the case local to save on shipping.
Building your own can be less expensive when you are using parts you already have. But even then, there can be hidden costs that you didn't anticipate.
I had good experiences when I bought from Micron and had a 5-year warranty. Having an extended warranty can be very helpful and would be the main reason I'd suggest buying pre-built. Though, I prefer to build my own. It may cost more, but you get what you pay for. Some of the prebuilt systems I've owned, I actually ended up spending more to replace all the low-quality components.
You can spread the cost out over a few months, if you're building a high-end system. Buy the case one month, the mobo and CPU the following month, etc. then RAM, HD, video, sound... etc. Buy as much as you can afford each month, and if you purchase several items from the same vendor (if you do it online) you can usually save some shipping charges.
If you want a killer system but are on a limited budget (and don't want to pay credit card finance charges) this is a way to do it. Occasionally you can save some money as things go on sale, too.
It's not for those who need immediate gratification though.
Yes, I agree with you completelt. If you have a good feel of the market and components, you can save yourself a bundle, and have all name-brand and quality parts to boot.
In addition, you can save money by reusing non-obsolete parts like modems, sound cards, etc.
Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
www.ncix.com
Great deals on pre-built machines and custom parts.
Like people that use Linux and program aren't that bright. In fact, they are idiots when it comes to anything useful.
The situation in Toronto, Ontario is one where if you want to buy based on price you want to go with the no-name clone dealers over building yourself. While the numbers will vary somewhat depending on where you are, at least in the Toronto area the typical mark-up over dealer cost on parts for a typical clone system is about 5-10%. Typical mark-up over deal cost on parts is 30% plus. In other words it will cost you signifigantly more to build your own box.
If your upgrading a no-name clone, it MAY make sense to roll your own upgrade, getting a new motherboard/CPU then re-using case, keyboard, etc.. But here again, all too often if price is you key concern quite often your best bet is to buy a basic clone, then strip the "good bits" off the old system, install them on the new box and go from there.
Beyond that, keep in mind that you do get what you pay for in the clone sector. Having worked for a Toronto clone builder (MDG), who I would conditionaly recomend (excellent prices, poor customer service/support) you do need to do some research and know what your getting into.
Not to put down rolling your own system/upgrade (I've done it several times myself) it does make for a GREAT educational excercise, but don't try to fool youself into thinking that your going to save any money, odds are it will cost you $.
If you're thinking of buying cooling supplies, Silicon Valley Compucycle has good prices on case fans, CPU fans, thermal grease, and so on. They ship quite quickly, too.
--
http://www.aikiweb.com - AikiWeb Aikido Information
As an addendum, the hard disks must be screwed in if you put them in the slide out trays. Of course it's easy to screw them down since you can remove the tray. You could in theory not use screws for the hard disk if you put them in the externally accessible 3.5inch bays, but I don't think it's a good idea to install a hard disk without screws.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
You just can't find these cases at places like Newegg
That's not necessarily true. You can find nice cases if you look around. The one I'm using now is a one-screw (thumbscrew) case that's very well put together, as nice as anything I've seen from Dell. Bought it from a little shop in San Francisco's SoMa district.
Granted, unless you go in a look at actual cases, and play with them in person, you're probably going to get stuck with one that's awkward or fragile or hacker-hostile. But just because most of the third-party cases are crap, that doesn't mean they all are. It's simply a feature that most people don't pay enough attention to.
I'm looking into building a PC myself, and have found that the cheapest way by far is to buy what's called a 'Barebones' system. On pricewatch they are initially listed as 'Kits' but after following the link you seem them called 'Barebones', as all the online super-deal-megastores do. The system will include at least a case, power supply, motherboard, processor, memory, hard drive and 3 1/2, and some flavor of a ROM drive. It can be configured with basically any standard hardware (and occasionally peripherals) that you want...but they never require you to order an M$ OS (or any OS).
With a barebones system, you get the best of all worlds: when you go to order one (at a quality site), you are linked to a form where you customize your barebones PC like you would a DELL, except with many more options.
All of this cuts down the price...plus, since they're building it for you, they get the deal on the hardware for buying bulk, which is passed onto you. Also, they do what's called 'burn-in', which is where they hook up their software-preloaded-testing-hard-drive and make sure it all works, and then as a guarantee they'll tack on a 1 or 2 year warranty (often upgradable). This way, you don't have to put it together yourself and wonder what's not working, and watch all the tech-support point fingers at each other yelling 'it's-not-me-it's-the-other-part'.
If you look a little, you can find a barebones package that can be configured with all the components you wanted anyway, and certainly with any processor. (Be careful though, the default choices on the form often are cheaper in make, but not in price).
I am personally using AccessMicro to build my system. I'm getting an Athlon XP 2100+, Gigabyte KT333 ATA133 RAID-enabled, 512MB DDR 333MHz DDRAM, plus CD-RW, DVD-ROM, 40GB hard drive, floppy, keyboard and mouse, and a sweet, sweet case for under a grand, easy (NOTE: IAN Affiliated). I couldn't have found but a couple parts I want cheaper, and I'll just install those myself...I'm telling you, this is the way to go, save yourself some time.
If I had a sig, this is where it would be.
Not necessarily to BUY since you're wanting buy online but if you have the time it's always nice to actually get your hands on the stuff and FRY's (at least the one near me) has lots of MOBOs drives, and boxes on display.
To extend this question, is there anything I can buy that will let me convert an ATX PC into a rack mounted unit?
For anyone not in America, here's some sites I swear by:
www.aria.co.uk
www.dabs.com
www.simply.co.uk
They all offer extremely competitive prices for the UK and delivery is shit hot. Dabs have a kinda point scheme going, the more you spend the more points you get, they can be exchanged for products when you get enough.
And if I'm feeling like cheating the Inland Revenue I get from America and skip hefty taxation by getting my dad to bring it back into the country (hes always going transatlantic for business) In this case I use
www.bestcomputerusa.com - guy who works there, vinny is really sound and very helpful.
Theres a few more US sites but I've forgotten em. Bah.
I'd build for sure. Store bought PC's dont nearly give you the options you want and sometimes skimp out on nicities like decent case, peripherals etc. Also they mainly ship with windows which adds on a tax of some sort, I'm sure you all know. Getting a refund on it is simple if you don't accept the EULA but still.
Mod me down, fine with me, it's my real karma I try to keep up.
For local shops I like Fry's. They are just huge.
For parts I like to try Computer Geeks first. I have ordered from them many times in the past. One time they sent me the wrong scsi card, I told them about it and they sent out the new one immediatly. I had two cards for a few weeks until UPS came to pick up the old one. I just thought it was nice that 1. they sent out the new one before receiving the old one and 2. They paid shipping to return the old one.
My latest server I built from Google Gear After shopping around I decided it was cheaper to ship it all from one place, and Goole Gear had the best all around prices I found.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human.
It has now gotten to the point where building a PC component by component is more expensive than ordering a prebuilt because of lack of bulk rate discounts, etc.
However, I would still recommend customer building it. It gives you greater control and it avoids having everything onboard the motherboard, as well as giving you piece by piece warranties which are often more friendly than warranties on complete system(as my father found out when just one component of his prebuilt system died and they wanted him to send the whole thing back or receive no assistance at all....)
Also, if you have never done it before, the experience is well worth both your time and money to acquire.
i'll keep this short and sweet.
d e_Index.htm is a must read for optimizing your bios. This can make the difference between a stable box and a box that crashes every 10 minutes.
//rant mode=on
:)
For parts, go to newegg.com and axiontech.com
I've ordered at least $20k in parts from both places in the past 2-3 years, and both are honest reliable places with decent rma policies. I hear mwave.com is decent too, though i've never dealt with them.
More importantly, you need some technical resources. www.pcguide.com covers a LOT of good overall system information. Spend a few hours there at least.
Also very important, and often overlooked by do it yourselfers......is bios setup. www.rojakpot.com/Speed_Demonz/BIOS_Guide/BIOS_Gui
Last thing, i want to go to
People who say dell, gateway, etc, are cheaper are ordering their parts from the wrong places. If you order all your stuff from axion or newegg, your gonna spend a lot less then a equalivent box from dell. Dont get me wrong, dell has great support (which is why i often point business or home users i dont want to support to dell). But if you feel you can take care of yourself, by all means do it yourself.
//rant mode=off
Good luck
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
don't forget to check out barebones systems. They offer the perfect middleground between prebuilt and DIY, and are cheaper than both.
case in point - the asus terminator k7. Add proc, ram, and HD, and you are done. And it's only $175.
check a review.
www.pricewatch.com, and www.resellerratings.com
Start with your lowest PW price and work your way up until you find a name you feel comfortable doing business with.
... from pricewatch.com generally buy from 2 vendors on there that offer the lowest prices across the board (for mb, 2xhd, 2xcd-r/dvd, mem, proc, kb, mouse, speakers, sound, video.)
Shadus
When you purchase an OEM hard drive from an online retailer that claims "3 year manufacture warranty" be careful! Newegg.com did exactly this, and when my IBM 60gxPiece-of-crap starting making a loud whine-- I checked the IBM website for warranty status. THERE WAS NONE. I called IBM and they had nothing to do with the drive, looking closer at the drive, it was manufactured for DELL, and DELL should carry the warranty for it. Obviously Dell would laugh at you. So you're stuck with a ONE year warranty from newegg.com (in this case). Keep your eyes open people, get retail drives!
On the other hand, I ordered a Seagate SCSI drive, which is available OEM only, and it definitely has a 3-year warranty from seagate. Checked the serial #.
So, in ANY case-- when you get your new hardware, Check the warranty status! If something is wrong, demand a refund or replacement immediately.
I'm going to be in the market for another PC soon, and have been watching the prices drop and the power go up over the years.
You're kidding. How long has that been going on?
Great prices if you'll take the same brand in a plain box. http://www.centralcomputer.com/
There's a quiet power supply called Silencer and it's perfect if you work/sleep near your pc.
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/home.htm
If you want a Transmeta Crusoe board, the first company to sell one was:
http://www.ibase-i.com.tw/
others are at:
http://www.transmetazone.com/products.cfm
I'm going to post anon sonce I'm going to get flamed, but why in the world is this a good Ask Slashdot question? I see this kinda crap on messageboards all day long, over and over and over again. Want to find the best prices/value? Do some research. A better question would have been the merits of clones vs. manufacturers with larger installations, not for a single box that someone wants to upgrade to make Solitare run faster. Is the Slashdot crowd that lame that this post was the cream of the crop??
cause they were lying. Or they didn't foresee the addiction of being able to customize your computer with whatever you you want. Once you build your computer there will always be something you can upgrade to make it faster or something you should have spent more money on the first time around. That 800 Mhz was fine.....for a while, then everyone started having 1.4 Ghz chips and suddenly you were the last on the block kid with a tricycle while everyone else was riding a BMX. And it doesn't stop there. Your 8 gigs of mp3s was fine...for a while(anyone seen Dog City, by Jim Henson? small reference here), until the 60 gig hard drives came out and then suddenly you had the 8-track of collections, while everyone else was listening to CDs.
I'm warning you, once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. You'll have ide cables coming out your dresser drawers and spare motherboads in your bathroom. You gotta ask yourself is it worth saving a few hundred bucks and having a kickass machine at all times? I'm not sure, but I'm building a building fool and I just can't stop.
P.S. newegg.com rules!
I recently built a system out of parts from Access Micro a month or so ago and was reasonably pleased. Their prices weren't too bad, it was easy to build a mb+proc+ram combo and they didn't jack the shipping way up.
Watch that on some companies... sometimes they will charge 10$ for each item that you add to the cart so the part looks really cheap but it's actually 5-6$ more than you thought compared to the shipping cost of another company.
I only bought one "main" brand PC, a Wang in the mid 80's. I've built my own since then (That thing lasted em for years). Although I DO have a Sun box, I don't count that. Besides that, it's white box all the way. I order my parts from http://www.mwave.com
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
I have 4 machines that I have built from ordering separate components from MultiWave, and have yet to be disappointed. Yes, I have had instances when something did not work, and I was able to get a replacement shipped THAT day.
You also prevent the "lock in" that all of these major builders try to commit your system to. When I purchased a Gateway AMD system, it was with an ATI Radeon card. As I recently found out, after a year, ATI discontinued this model...thereby shutting me off from any updated drivers. This would lead you to believe "Well, just replace the card" and while this is my first suggestion, I can't do that due to the Motherboard/Video Card combination they used was specific to this case, and specific to Gateway.
By building your own, you know the exact limitations and upgradability of YOUR system. That way, if something is "out of date" or you need more room, you can expand with the knowledge that YOU made that happen.
You keep going until you die..."Me".
www.pagecomputer.com
.. wide selection of case badges.
- Esp. good for monitors. Shipping is by weight and very fair.
www.bestbyte.net
- wholesale prices on cooling (fans, heatsinks, etc). flat-fee shipping $5.00.
www.directron.com
- Fair
www.spartantech.com
- You spec. They build. There are several companies working in this category, that 'build' fee also means they warranty the whole deal.
www.mushkin.com
- Memory. Good memory, reasonable prices.
www.consumerdepot.com
- Odd stuff dirt cheap.
For the past 6 years, I buy all these parts mainly from Star Components (aka Star Computek). Their website is down for reconstruction, but they can be reached at 888-833-0833 (10330 Beach Blvd, Ste.D, Stanton CA 90680) Absolutely honest and upfront, and as good as their word on warranties.
Personally I see no point in buying Micron memory from Crucial when I can get Micron memory from Star for half the price. I have about 2.5 gigs of Star's memory sticks in use, of various brands, all 100% good. And they were happy to trade me different RAM when one fussy-assed machine wanted sticks matched by brand as well as type.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Find somewhere local, so you can swap parts if they break. I use macena systems for the northern boston area, in middleton.... pretty much every area has a cheap localstore. macena.com, tell them the anonymous coward on slashdot sent you.
I reckon that between my own orders and those from companies I've worked and ordered for, I've placed about £13,000 of orders, of various sizes. Out of all that, everything has been perfect apart from one dead power supply which was replaced next day without returning the defective one, and they've even been happy to take back stuff that we ordered and then didn't want. I can really recommend them.
Another good place that's worth a look is overclockers.co.uk, though the bias is very much on what's en vogue in the gaming market. But they often have good prices on things, although you need quite a large order to offset post and packaging.
But often, I think you'll find that you'll end up spending more in the long run building a PC yourself, as you won't get a cheap OEM deal on Windows (assuming you don't want Linux), and when you realise how crap most of the components are in a pre-build "cheap" box, you'll want to buy higher quality bits for your own box.
Good luck!
Ralf
LIke another person stated, the reason Dell's and Emachines are cheaper is 1) they get parts in bulk, and 2) they use shitty components.
Who here in tech support wanted to shoot themselves when the old guy 15 miles out in the valley (who just yesterday got running water and indoor plumbing) is complaining about getting "only" 24.6k from his SM56k motorola. Or Lucent LT winmodem. Or god forbid the blue and white G3's. Or even the DSL guy with the no-name brand NIC who just can't seem to create a network-worthy packet (or is spewing shit all over the LAN).
WE know the value of good pieces. I wouldn't give an emachine or compaq to anyone I know if you PAID me.
That being said, go for the most stable AMD chip/mobo you can find (my crappy via KT133 has to be turned on. then turned off. then turned on again before it'll boot), about a gig of good ram, the maxtor or IBM hdd (it was just a bad batch! not all IBM's are crap!), a GeForce4 4200, USR courier v.anything (or Intel NIC), M-Audio Delta DiO 2496 sound card,HDTV tuner card...*drools*
oh wait, uh, what was i saying...oh yeah. don't buy a LT winmodem or I'll come after you. And your children.
Most folk'll never lose a toe, and then again some folk'll...
I would definitely make your own system, like you said, you know what you want/need. I recently built one and I bought a barebones whitebox and then added on to it. It saves some of the initial hassle while still allowing you tweak it however you want.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
I get everything from Netlink Computers. Very competetive prices!
You'll also see the list of components in advance, and if you want another video card, the substitution will only cost you the difference in price. If you want to add a tape drive or something, they can get it for you and install it when they put the computer together, and service it afterwards. Try this with CompUSA or other major retailer. YOU try it.
Your local reseller will also be using standard parts, meaning that repairs or upgrading isn't a problem. They will not be using proprietary parts which you're SOL on if the company tanks and get to pay a premium for if you need to replace out-of-warranty.
You might be able to save a few bucks by buying from Walmart... but if it goes back to the factory, you will either have to ship it yourself or take it back to Walmart, and either way, you wait. Most people here depend on their computers to make a living.
If you want an idea of what name brand buys these days, try HP... the people who make you beg for the privilege of PAYING for recovery disks. (see earlier slashdot thread) Or finding your motherboard can't be upgraded because you can't simply drop in an ATX motherboard.
Thanks for signing this, I will know to discount any further advice I see from you in future. Sorry about this, but you really put your foot in it this time. I know of no advantage that comes with buying a name brand.
This is for the individual or small business where it is less hassle to throw the CPU box in the car and head for your dealer. If you're purchasing for a large company, then it might be time to talk to Dell, etc., because if you're buying quantity 10K, you'll need to deal with a national company big enough to have a network of repair centers and probably one willing to send techs out to do onsite maintenance.
Tech Public Policy stuff
and i have found that after you decide on the power level and hardware particulars, start with the two most expensive parts, for me it's the high end Tyan motherboards, and the SCSI drives to go with, and find the two places that sell these two items for the lowest. And then shop those two places against each other for the rest of the PC.
Having two places ship you things is the most, i've found, that you can use and not loose all of the advantage of finding the cheapest price. Furthermore, the cheaper the item, the less money you can really save on it by shopping around. So that guy that saves you 15$ on the MB can't usually get that pack on the case, per say. And do look for the memory+RAM+MB deals.
john
Excessive trolling on how good newegg.com are? :P
:P
They cant be _THAT_ good
some of the accounts numbers are a bit odd too
still reading?
I have shopped happily at MultiWave (www.mwave.com) for years.
:)
They carry almost everything you need for a computer, and also do custom builds.
A particular feature I like is their motherboard/CPU/ram combos, which often include a discount on one of the above
Find a lot of good and some unbelievable computer-parts deals at http://www.gotapex.com/deals.php.
If you're going to the trouble of building your own piece, make sure it fulfills your needs uniquely, and isn't just a one-size-fits-all box that you might as well get prebuilt.
/. stories cover some superlatives, such as the quietest, smallest, or most overclockable boxes.
:P ). As a result, I usually pay extra for a top-of-the-line motherboard and skimp on the processor, knowing that the price on CPUs falls really fast. My plan is to spend a good $100 - $200 on the MB and maybe $50 on the CPU (usually the best performance/price ratio and probably close to the minimum that the MB can support). In about 2 years, the price of the fastest CPU that MB can support would have likely dropped from $300 to less than $100 .
:P
Several
I wanted max I/O, so I shelled out for a nice Tyan Tiger MPX SMP motherboard with 64bit 66Mhz PCI. I bought two hard disks so I could make a raid0 / raid1 in software, but perhaps someday I'll throw in a hardware EIDE / SCSI RAID card. I also went for two sticks of RAM so accesses could be interleaved. This is all stuff OEMs don't even bother with.
My upgrade cycle is pretty low (~3-5 years, well, high according to my wife
As far as isolating faulty parts, BE SURE to have geeky friends with similar equipment who will let you swap out components so you can figure out which part was DOA. Oh, and also time and patience.
Along the lines of time and patience, be prepared to spend lots of time at Tom's or Anandtech brushing up on the latest reviews of your components. Especially with video cards, where often times you can rip out a lot of hair trying to figure out whether it's worth $50-$100 in savings to get the cut-down MX or VE versions.
Make a checklist to make sure you don't leave anything out! It's a major bummer when you find that you're a cable short
Today's processors smoke themselves pretty fast if you run them without the heatsink/fan attached properly. (I forget how long the Athlon is supposed to take to burn up, but IIRC it's something like 10 or 15 seconds.)
To cope with that, there are some PC shops who will install the processor in the motherboard, power it up to test it, and them ship the assembled unit, often with some memory. You'll often see this advertised as a "bundle". Perhaps the best-known (though not always cheap) vendor is JNCS.
This is the approach one of my moderately-technical classmates took-- she was quite up for installing the OS, PCI cards, and drivers, but didn't trust herself to diagnose a machine that, say, wouldn't power-up initially.
As I recall, the reseller installed the mobo and CPU in a case, and she took it from there. That way she was able to spec out her own spiffy video-editing system without coping with the nail-biting parts. Not necessarily a bad approach for the first-time PC builder.
its idiots like this that are posting Anonymously that just want to post for no particular reason, what do you care what the article of choice is about..if you can write something better then feel free, if not then shutup! I'm pretty sure you can find better ways to waste a minute of your time than whining. Slashdot is for those that wish to expand their minds on computers and such...why wouldnt there be a question from a fellow /.er asking where to get good parts and then trying to compare making your own computer vs. buying one.
and why did you choose to post anon this time compared to anyother time? what are you afraid of..an opinion?
-Alicia
http://mwave.com. No bull, good prices, and a decent website. The only places I found with better prices had bad websites. Dell is ok but I prefer to put the extra dollars where I want them (Video, CPU, RAM) than where Dell wants them (Support contract, OS software, 950X CD-ROM drive)...
Comic Book Guy: "There is no Groening in my store."
I have shopped online at mwave.com for years.
They are friendly when you need to talk to someone, carry almost everything you'd ever need.
The also have some nice features like selling motherboard-ram-cpu combo packages, that way if you're not familiar with what boards are compatible with what families of processors, you dont worry about it.
www.mwave.com
no comment
> The only thing to consider is where to get the monitor from,
> since it is so heavy, so shipping costs are high.
Yeah, I was thinking of going with a local vendor myself when I built my PC year before last. But I scoured eBay and found several places who specialize in monitors who list them there, and who have very high feedback ratings in the thousands. I looked around for a good buy and good return terms in case the monitor had defects after shipping, and ended up bidding on a big beautiful used 20-inch Apple ColorSync, an oldie but goodie from the days before candy-colored plastic that I remembered liking a lot back in college when we had one connected to a 7200 in the computer lab. They use those Mac connectors but come with VGA adapters. And of course hey have a Sony Trinitron tube instead of a shadow mask--don't buy cheap shadow mask CRTs, especially used...
So, I lay in wait and slipped in a bid of $251.55 right at the last minute, which is a good thing because a bid sniper tried to take it but his max bid was $250. Added $40 dollars shipping which was advertised by the vendor, and I got a nice pretty 20-incher for just under $300. Not bad considering how hard it is to find a real 20-incher even today compared to all the 19-inchers out there. And yes, you can see and enjoy the difference...
When I opened that huge box--those old 20-inch trinitrons have HUGE and heavy tubes--I carefully perched it onto my sturdy desk, hooked it up, and turned it on. There was a little red discoloration in one bottom corner--not good, so I e-mailed them and they said that monitors sometimes need a few days after being shipped to get back into perfect shape, since they've been jostled a bit; but there was a 30-day period in which I could send it back. I waited a week and the reddish area just went away, and for nearly 2 years this monitor has been running perfectly and impressing all my friends with their puny 19-inchers and 17-inchers.
So, I say at least look on eBay for some monitors you might want because of special features and such. If you can find a good price once the shipping is factored in on a monitor you can't get locally so cheaply, and the vendor has good return policies and a lot of positive feedback, it's worth a try.
Chasing Amy
(We all chase Amy...)
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws"-Tacitus
Good price and fast shipment
Mwave has a nice advantage that they will, for $9.00, put together and test a motherboard bundle, not a bad deal if you are nervous about putting a cooler on an Athlon or buying cheap RAM.
http://www.computersurplusoutlet.com
Dawn of the Dead
I have found that if you buy a box with what you want in it already (or something reasonably close) then you can usually save a lot of money. More so than buying each piece. So what I do is I try to find a system which is really close to what I want and then just order the other parts.
The reason is, is because it is cheaper for the computer place to put it all together than it is to sell the individual parts. Less paperwork, fewer boxes to ship, lower shipping costs, etc.... The company also makes a better profit off of the deal. So they usually pass some of those savings on to the customer. Not all of the savings - but some.
I had not heard of newegg.com before (although I WILL be definitely adding it to my list), but pricewatch, pricegrabber used to be good, and even zdnet.com can help you locate systems and parts.
later.
Tigerdirect has fast shipping, great customer service, low prices (and amazing specials), and a wide selection. IMHO you can't go wrong with them.
Application has reported a 'Not My Fault' in module KRNL.EXE in line 0200:103F
I have nothing but good things to say about Netlink Computers. You can get everything you need there.
The most expensive parts of a computer, like the processor, will cost you a ton to buy unless you are going for the old stuff. If you order through a store, they buy expensive parts in bulk and get much better prices. So it really depends whether you want top of the line, or yesterday's technology. Of course, you don't get that "I built it all by myself" feeling when you order it from a store.
...by buying a barebones machine and then adding components. A lot of people have already pointed out that you can get killed by shipping by going to Pricewatch and then ordering every component from a different outfit. By ordering a barebones kit, you've got the case, mobo, power supply, processor, cooler, and sometimes, even the floppy drive taken care of. One shipping charge. Plus, a lot of times, this is the cheapest way to cover all of the above components in one fell swoop. No need to worry about frying your new mobo when mounting it in the case! No need to worry about cracking your new CPU when clamping on the cooler! Nothing to do but pick out the other goodies you want and plug 'em in!
I'm dumbfounded that this got modded up to 5.
all of the prebuilt PC manufacturers get huge bulk discounts
So do wholesalers.
assuming you want to run Windows or some other commercial OS and don't wish to steal it
Who wants to run a commercial OS? Even if you do, taking a copy from your old computer, if you don't plan to use it anymore, is NOT STEALING.
Less than a month ago, I built a new computer. It's an Athlon XP 1800+ with a 400W power supply, 512 megs of RAM and a 40 gig 7200rpm hard drive. I cannibalized the CD drives and sound card from my old computer, which is still my web- and mailserver. Even if I hadn't used anything from my old computer, it still would have cost me less than $500. I just configured a comparable system at Dell's website and it ended up costing over $1000. CompUSA advertises a similar system for $950.
For extreme low-end systems, the price is about the same for buying from a store vs. building yourself, but the shipping overhead very quickly pays for itself as you move towards more expensive components. The $10 savings on a slow CPU won't pay for shipping, but the $200 savings on a fast CPU will.
a respectable name brand
Like what? I can think of only one name brand I have the slightest respect for--IBM, which doesn't sell cheap low-end computers. HP, Dell, and Gateway all use in-house non-standard hardware so you can't upgrade and have to keep buying from them. But software and standard peripherals don't do a good job dealing with the broken hardware, so big-name computers are more error-prone.
If you have the know-how to do it right, there is not a single disadvantage to building your own computer. You'll save a lot of money, and you'll end up with a substantially better product.
The original Howling Frog is a fictional character and has no UID.
has anyone had any experiences (good/bad) with bzboyz.com?
i've never had any problems with www.umart.com.au good for me because i can save on the shipping costs by ordering online and then picking up the parts...
although it is still an option to check with the local whitebox stores... they may still surprise with some good prices.
Good places to start are anandtech and Tom's Hardware
Once you have decided what you want, you can do this for most of your items:
- Check Pricewatch for lowest prices. (they now include S&H in the total)
- Check the credibility of the companies with the lowest prices on pricewatch with ResellerRatings.com
.
Side note: Memmory.I cant emphasize this enough. THIS is the most important step.
The only Item I would recommend you go to a specific store for is memmory. This is very important if you're looking to overclock and are going to be running at higher FSB's. Even if you're not, it can save you a lot of headaches to be sure your memmory is good.
I'd recommend Mushkin or Corsair memmory, they always come out tops in every review I've read. Also, every stick I've bought of these have been of the best quality and can usually be run above spec.
Other stuff:
You may be interested in special items, like a modded case, or a watercooling setup, these you have to look into yourself and you won't find them on pricewatch. Not necessary to build a computer.
Liberty.
I think a contest to predict what the next propaganda will be would be a great idea.
I don't think it could make it to the mainstream press though?
I only read
My History with them: I was going to a LAN party last Summer and all I had was a P90...you can guess I wouldn't get to play much besides doom][ :) SO, I drove down to Memory Express that afternoon , pointed out the parts I wanted to make a complete system. I went to the LAN party & put it together. VOILA! Instant Athlon gaming machine and I haven't had any problems with it except that it's hard to get away from :). If only women were so easy ;) *grin*
I left the lan @ 3pm, got my parts & was back putting it together by 4:30pm the SAME DAY. What really annoys me with purchasing a custom system from a business is that they ALWAYS want to "burn it in" which they always end up taking more than the "2 days" that they promised (2 weeks at the previous place i ordered my Ex's system from). I spent Saturday/Sunday "burning it in" with a gibfest of UT. Yes, i can understand shit happens & they need to replace stuff. Yes, had I planned better, I could have had a "better" experience at those other places. But why bother when putting it together went EXTREMELY smooth.
- First get an idea of how much you can afford to spend.
- Think a bit about what sort of tasks you want the computer to do. Do you want high end video for gaming? Do you want to build a PVR? Do you want to build a small server to host web/ftp/email services over a broadband connection?
- Go online and do some research to see what's out there to fulfill the role you envision for the machine. arstechnica, tom's hardware, anandtech, storage review, and other sites usually have good information on recent and upcoming technologies. I do a lot of looking to see what's out there and what's around the corner, then go back and revise my budget accordingly.
- Decide what you need to buy. I don't generally go for the biggest, fastest, best, because it's generally twice as expensive (or more) as it will be in just a few months. I don't buy the cheapest stuff either, as it's usually of inferior quality, obsolete, or will give inferior performance compared to spending a small amount more on something better. I look at the price/performance curve, and generally buy in the "knee-bend" of the curve. The only exception is if there's something dirt cheap available for a non-critical component that doesn't make much of a difference (like a floppy drive, NIC, or keyboard) or an absolutely critical high-priority component that the system *needs* in order to perform its role adequately (like a GeForce card for a gaming station) or a SCSI controller for a file server.
- Shop around. You can try pricewatch.com to get an idea what stuff is going for these days. But I find that shipping makes finding a real bargain somewhat difficult. That's especially true if you buy from more than one vendor. I try to go through one vendor, for simplicity's sake, and right now my choice is Newegg.com. They have very good service and their prices are often near the top of the pricewatch search results anyway. You can try local stores, too. Stay away from chains like CompUSA and Best Buy, and support small local businesses run by knowledgable, competant people. Their prices will generally be about twice the lowest you'll find on pricewatch, but you may find the convenience of not paying for shipping, not having to wait for delivery, and having someone to go to for questions and advice useful. If you're more experienced, you probably don't need that, but few people know everything about everything, and everyone you talk to can potentially teach you something.
- Put it together. There's plenty of guides out there on the web that will go into detailed instructions on how to put a PC together if you need help. PC Mechanic is a good example, and there are many others out there. Read the instructions a few times until you know what you're doing, then do it.
Good luck.You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I get my RAM/cases/powersupplies/cables from www.ocsystem.com. They don't have any round SCSI cables, but www.coolerguys.com does.
hmmmm, i am not so sure this /. article was worth posting, it seems the whole thread has become one big advertisment for people to advert their favourite/owned companies...
As for the topic, i say go for home-made pc's !
Pricewatch.com they now have a system in place to keep them from scalping on the shipping like they used to. Dual 1ghz p3 1.5 gig ram ti500 and 2 7200 rpm 20's $550
"On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero."
I see a lot of people recommending Crucial. That's fine; I'm sure they make great stuff. I just wanna point out that Mushkin has inspired similar loyalty.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I purchased a "brand name" PC several years ago... it was my last (pain in the ass to upgrade). Even some the more recent PC's sell slightly modified hardware; e.g., Dell sold many SE440 boards with their P2's that weren't standard ATX, if you wanted to upgrade you had to buy a new case or your were SOL).
You may not be able to save much money anymore building your own, but I definitely think it is wisest choice if you know what you're doing. At least buy from a company where you can walk in and talk to people who build them--they (most likely) use standard parts.
Case for $25? I don't think you can get a 300watt case for less than $50. You might want a mouse and keyboard too.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
One of the advantages I found to building my own was upgrading on an installment plan. Each paycheck you buy a different component and install it.
Another advantage for bottom feeders is the ability to save money by getting last-year's best components and put the money where you need it.
- Purchase extra sensitive components such as motherboards and RAM from a mom&pop store. I've seen motherboards shipped in tiny cardboard boxes with no padding whatsoever. I've also seen motherboards shipped in gigantic boxes with only one or two of those air pillows for padding.
- Other things such as hard drives and video cards are typically padded well, so they're pretty safe for shipping.
- Unless you're buying in bulk or a number of things from one supplier, buy the cheap things like floppy drives and keyboards locally. The shipping charges frequently aren't worth it.
- Even if you're not going to buy from the local stores, talk with the builders there. Ask them their opinion on various hardware; pros and cons, issues to watch out for, that sort of thing. Get several viewpoints if you can. While they'll try to pump their products, the people who work there are less corporate drones than the Best Buy type people, so they'll be more willing to let you know of caveats, and they'll probably be more knowledgable.
- Don't skimp on the power supply, no matter how tempting the price difference between, say, a 250W and 350W PS. You'd be amazed the kind of difference in stability you can see between even a 250W and a 300W, in certain situations.
- Always check out the return policy and RMA procedures. Local shops will often have decent warranties on their stock, even if they don't build your system for you. Also, some manufacturers have excellent return policies. Western Digital typically has a 3yr warranty, All Components has a lifetime warranty on their RAM, and it's ridiculously easy to get a defective 3Com card replaced. I've replaced stuff free and clear from each of those three vendors after a poor PS blew a computer. Few questions asked.
- Last, don't skimp on the case. There are a lot of $7 cases out there, but do you really want to coat the inside of yours with your blood after cutting an artery on a sharp edge? Once you build a machine yourself, you'd be surprised how often you end up going back inside that case... just to look around, or to add stuff.
- If you're looking to mod your box, you'll probably have to purchase online. I haven't seen a lot of local shops supplying light and window kits. That could just be my area, though.
- Finally, though it goes without saying I'm going to say it, be very conscientious about whether or not you're really getting a good deal by buying online as opposed to locally. If you can get that pimpin' mobo for $3 online, it's still not worth it if it arrives damaged with no return policy after paying $25 shipping and handling.
- Speaking of which, you might want to check out various resources like Tom's Hardware Guide to see the reliability of the products you want to purchase. Several years ago I purchased an ABit IT5H motherboard and had to send it back twice. I found out much later that this board in particular had a 50% dead on arrival rate! Had I known that at the outset, I would've selected a different one, or purchased from a local shop so I could get an immediate return.
That's all I can think of at the moment. Hope this helps.- Jonathan
Since everyone else is listing favorite vendors, I had good results with The Chip Merchant (an Ars favorite) and Sunset Marketing. No connection to either other than satisfaction.
There was also a Kuro5hin story on this a few weeks ago. Too lazy to link it...
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Annoying maybe, but he doubled Dell's sales...
If you give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. If you give a fish a man, he'll eat for life.
*shrug* I wish I could agree with you, but I don't.
I have generally been able to get massive savings and a huge increase in quality and power by building up my own machines. It helps that I usually buy the best power/price stuff (AMD CPUs usually) and carefully balance my systems to have no bottlenecks.
What can I say? YMMV, but I have been building my own machines since the XT, and I've won out every time. I don't buy from any particular place. I just keep my eyes open. I never buy the latest and greatest, but I put together mean machines.
---
A couple solid choices for Canadians are
Premier Computers Canada
or
Canada Computers
They sell parts on the cheap and have great return policies.
I put together a PC from a Tiger kit back in '97, and it was fine. It had mostly standard generic stuff in it, like S3 ViRGE video and a cheapy Yamaha soundcard, but the price was great at the time. The mobo did die a few years ago though.
I can't say that I have shopped with them much since then though, as their prices really got less and less competitive over the years.
The merits depend on your needs and how much time you have. If you have gobs of time on your hands, you can search for the lowest prices, and may be able to save if you're clever about it. I wouldn't do this for more than one or two systems, though.
Back in my days as an IT manager for a small company, I bought from a local company that built their own computers. They could get substantially better prices on components than I could, because they had accounts with wholesale distributors, and they dealt with greater volumes. They built the computers from individual components, unlike the mass-producers such as Dell, who typically integrate everything (network card, sound card, etc.) into the motherboard to save pennies. This was important to me because when a system failed I could typically get a new part, which my local company usually had on hand, within hours, rather than having to replace the system entirely and wait for the replacement to come in the mail. This saved us money in reduced downtime for systems that made us money only when they were running.
The bottom line is, if you have a local supplier whom you trust, there can be many benefits to using that resource. Trying to build systems at a cost equivalent to what they provided would have taken up too much of my time to be worth the effort, and made things difficult down the road when things inevitably broke. Additionally, consider that components often fail, and a supplier will stand behind their systems, replacing parts immediately if they fail within a reasonable amount of time after purchase.
Also, Sysopt has a great site with user reviews of products, if you're not quite sure about X-brand cd-writers, or the newest NVidia video card.
if you decide to build an athlon, spec your system before buying at www.amdmb.com. they have discussion boards in their forums which are motherboard specific (pretty much any athlon board you can think of).
:)
beware, though, don't get discouraged. because everyone comes there with problems, it will seem like your board choice is crap. but if you read all the board forums, you'll find that they all have problems
i've used them quite a bit. and my first time, i followed the advice people there had given about purchasing parts and have been happy ever since:
BUY FROM NEWEGG!
btw: check out tiger direct on resellerratings.com and you'll know why people say stay away.
The best reason to build it yourself is to find that optimal combination of price/performance FOR YOUR APPLICATION.
Often times, retail systems are built to be well-rounded, balanced machines. This isn't always what's best for you.
Here is a real-life example: An in-law of mine asked me what kind of machine was best for manipulating/processing/storing images. She wanted to create a digital archive of touched-up photographs, etc. She also was unwilling to spend more than about $1200 if I remember correctly.
I told her that the best combination would be something like:
Min 384 MB RAM to store several full-color 8.5 x 11 inch images in memory for manipulation.
A fast 7200 rpm hard drive so that images can be quickly moved to and from disk.
Fast CD Burner.
And with the rest of the money, get a processor, motherboard, etc.
For her application, big MHz didn't mean much. A fat hard drive was less important than a fast drive.
The point of course is to emphasize those components that are most important to what you do.
Of course, she ended up getting a machine with a large but slow drive, insufficient memory (128MB) and wondered why she spent all day waiting for images to get processed by her top-of-the-line CPU. The reason of course is that the machine spent all its time paging.
even as much as three years ago when I did my first major Pentium II upgrade for my home PC (full replacement of a 486DX2 system...woohoo!) I selected my components from a local OEM shop and had intended to build it myself. However, I was offered a discount of roughly $200 to let them put the thing together and give me support and warranty for a year or something like that. So I let them...I figured why not.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Why exactly isn't Microsoft selling cheap PCs equipped with Windows? I think there would be a huge market! Microsoft has eliminated enemies by, for example, buying the company which manufactures so called "Microsoft Mouse"s. Why sell just mouses and keyboards? Why not sell chep PCs with Windows?
I was in the same situation a couple of weeks ago, so I know what it's like to dredge the web for a good bargain. I found it's good to look for products online, decide what you want, and then go to the local dealer to get the best price. Saying that, the other week I ignored my own advice and orded online out of pure laziness.
For the oz readers, New Computers is a good one to check for stock, not necessarily pricing.
Ladies, form queue here -->
I do an analysis every once in a while of the costs associated with building and buying pcs. What I have found consistantly is that cost savings when building a computer come in three forms.
1) Re-using old hardware
2) buying older, cheaper, or used components and
3) Re-using / Stealing software / OS.
The point is that if you want a fast new computer, and you arent interested in doing continual upgrades, you are better off calling Dell or someone. The cost savings of a beige box can be VERY significant if you plan to continually upgrade instead of buying new every 3 or so years. (national average) Re-using old components is where you will do the best. Cases, Monitors, Cables, Speakers, and drives are expensive and dont change all that much.
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
I think it's possible to save *some* $$$ by building your own. But where you really start to cut your cost down is in reusable parts. Floppy drive? Reuse it! Sound Card? Reuse it! You can keep a top of the line system going for several years just by replacing just the mobo, RAM, and processor when the "sweet spot" enters your price range. Add on "nice to haves" like a better video card or a bigger HD when the budget allows. If this comes around, we'll all be enjoying cheap PCs on our sleeve.
I am not convinced that building your own PC is really going to save you a lot of money.
The PC market is very competitive. Big manufacturers like Dell get excellent deals on parts and keep their overhead low with tight supply chains.
Small dealers keep prices low by operating on slim margins and favorable terms with suppliers.
You will save a bit on labor+ markup by assembling yourself though.
The real advantage is that you get exactly what you want. Mail order vendors, like Dell create unbalanced configurations to either make you think you are getting more than you are getting, or forcing you to get a more expensive machine in order to bring a certain feature up to the level you desire.
One example, they may use a big but slow hard disk. If you were building it your self, you could opt for a smaller (but still) huge disk with a higher spindle speed instead. Rather than having to choose the next model up, which may only be available with an excessive sound card.
I've been using pricegrabber http://www.pricegrabber.com/ a lot lately as an alternative to pricewatch. You get the same sort of listing by price, but there are also user ratings of each vendor. That way you don't go and order from some fly-by-night that takes off with your cash, or ships you broken merch.
You are on the right track about getting a small, local store to build your computer. I have been a computer technician at these kind of stores for the past 5 years. You best bet is to NOT actually DIY. Go to one of these stores, put together the system you want by picking your parts, and get them to put it together. Want to know why? Because when something goes wrong and you don't know how to fix it (I'm totally going by the way you worded your post, and it seems to me you are probably computer literate, but not a comp. tech.) you can bring the computer back to the store to get them to fix it.
And guess what, when something breaks physically, it is SOOOO much easier to just take it back to the store and get them to RMA it, than it is for you to do it, not to mention, you usually get a HD (or whatever breaks) right away, and not have to wait for it. Also, if you have your computer plugged in during a lightnigh storm, and the computer fries, go back to them, get them to see that it is fried, and they will write a letter for your insurance company, and will give you a new computer for free (atleast that's how it works in Ontario, Canada if you have home insurance that includes your PC).
And guess what all this extra stuff costs? Usually nothing, or very little compared to ordering it and building it yourself. The extra cost you may pay is SOOO worth getting a store to build it for you when you have to ask a question over the phone, because first question I ask is "Did you buy the computer from us?".
I have no signature
As you can see, rolling your own PC is not the cheapest way to get a PC. However, if you want a really nice system, it is the best way to go.
I have built around a dozen PC over the last few years, and have helped or observed other people's efforts.
The following parts have always yielded a good PC:
- Asus motherboard
- Creative Labs soundblaster live, sound card
- IBM or Maxtor HD IDE
- Whatever got good reviews lately for the CDR, monitor, and speakers
- Latest Nvidia-based video card
- Crucial (micron) DIMMS
- Any popular NIC
- External serial modem, diamond or US Robotics
- microsoft intelli-eye mouse
- IBM keyboard
- A nice OS: W2K or Linux/unix (avoid W98, ME).
my first pc was a store bought job. ive had about 5 or 6 machines since and i have built those myself from scratch. doign it this was has its advantages and disadvantages, it depends. for the most part, being able to put in EXACTLY what i want is the main reason why i build my own. the main reason for NOT building your own would be warranty. you are probably only going to get 12 months warranty on parts as opposed to 3yrs for a system. to be honest. if you arent into tinkering with hardware just buy one from the store. if you love tinkering with hardware then build your own. store bought pc's will generally work out of the box. one you build yourself obviously wont be as simple. your gut should be telling you what to do by now anyways :p
There are really only 3 major wholesale companies, Ingram Micro, Merisel, and Tech Data. Most of the mom/pop shops are buying from them.
Im lucky, in Seattle, we have such a cut throat market, we can get good "pricewatch" type prices. And you can barter down. I like to buy from hard drives northwest and Computer Stop. Theres a small russian shop up the street Compu$ave Inc that has tons of oem motherboards, and cases
I check pricewatch, compare with Computer Source, a local computer magazine that has all the local stores and ads. Then I see which has the best deal. If taxes are the same as shipping, I goto a local shop. Makes it easier if I get a bad part.
-
There is nothing in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and he who considers price only is that man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)
The costs end up being close to the same, with a slight edge going to home built machines.
The difference lies that with homebuilt stuff, you get better parts.
You'll get the 7200rpm 2mb buffer drive instead of the 5400...you'll get the GeForce3 ti500 instead of the Geforce2 MX 400...
You'll get a case you like, and one that has expandability.
You'll know what's in your machine - and if you're a rookie, you'll learn more about hardware.
I always build my own PC's - never once had a problem. They bench rather high as well, and I haven't had to reboot 'cause of an error in years.
The total price difference between a home built and a manufactured pc is probably a few hundred dollars but is it worth it to build it on your own? You have to spend time to get the parts and make sure they are all going to work together and get the right case to fit everything. Also you have no warranty if you screw something up, you can't call up thhe manufacturer and complain. All the time you spend gathering and build, and testing might not be worth saving the few extra hundred dollars.
I was going to point out the same thing: the motherboard is the FOUNDATION of the system. Other internal components can be skimped now and upgraded later, but ONLY if you buy a motherboard that can support the upgrades.
:)
The other thing to NOT SKIMP, is the case and power supply. It's a helluva lot easier to work inside a good case (mid-tower at least, not a mini). And you'd be amazed how much flaky behaviour is due to a cheap power supply or a short in the case wiring harness.
You make many other good points as well. The only one I'd disagree with is the hassle factor. Yeah, once in a while you'll get some manufacturer who gives you the finger instead of making good on their components warranty (this is why it's important to buy CPUs only as retail box!!) But in general with a DIY, it's easier to find drivers, easier to get later component upgrades to play nice together, etc.
And if a component dies, just yank and replace on the spot; no need to ship the entire unit back to South Dakota or Texas or wherever (where they may well wipe your hard disk in the process of "fixing" the video card). I've heard DOA rates on shipping whole units as high as 30% -- too scary for me!
Check out local clone shops -- many will put together exactly what you want, without you having to chase down all the parts, for the same or less than it would cost to do all the legwork yourself. They have better suppliers and contacts, and can get better prices than someone buying single parts. Most will also sell you the individual parts, if you prefer to assemble it yourself, but it's often easier to let them do the burn-in chores, and that way you get a whole-system warranty (usually for one year, often longer, and many mfgrs, frex ATI, will still honour their normal extended warranty on cloneshop or DIY boxes too).
And stay the fuck away from TigerDirect as well!!
My longest upgrade trail, still living in the same high-end case, went from a 486DX2-66 to a P3-550. Since AT is now dead the motherboard can't be upgraded further (tho I've heard this board can support up to P3-800MHz, so when CPU prices fall enough, maybe I'll try it), and it's maxed out at 1 gig of RAM... but I can still upgrade the video card, the hard disk capacity, the sound card, the CDRW, etc. So even after 8 years and two major system upgrades, this box is a long way from retirement.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
For parts, Mwave is unbeatable.
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
Newegg is definitely a good site as far as quality products/price are concerned. However a few things keep me from consistantly ordering from them: 1. California sales tax. Living in San Diego, I always check pricewatch and order stuff from neighboring states just to avoid the extra bones that get tacked on. Usually that beats out the additional shipping charge. 2. Seperate Shipping costs. Some sellers like Directron ( http://www.directron.com ) will actually join your mulitple items together and save you some money in shipping. Newegg does not do this, so you end up paying seperate shipping charges are your order of Ram, Case Sticker,and Case fan. Easily $20 instead of the combined weight/size that should be $6 bucks. Additionally, Since I'm not too far away from Newegg.com's warehouse I would surely not mind driving up there to buy my 19"monitor, server-case and avoid the epic shipping charges on those. However Newegg does not allow such. And yes I did add that to Newegg's "Wish List" section of their website.
If you think
Antec has some fairly decent cases at good prices...one of 'em here at work has a latch to hold the side panel on, another latch inside holding the 3.5" drive cage in place, and rails for 5.25" drives (with unused rails stored in the bottom of the case). I have a couple of Chieftec cases at home that are of similar design. Two of 'em were bought through Newegg; one of the Chieftec cases came from PC Club.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
I always home build all home systems, but there are tradeoffs.
Pluses of retail is that it doesn't require as much knowledge, research, considerartion, and you get support for your system so they'll fix it if it breaks...They warrant the whole system so they can't blame other compnents and claim no responisibilty....
Now I don't need the support, and when something breaks I can tell and have yet to be stonewalled for long by support claiming another compnent is at fault. Plus, you can fine tune the warranty depending on the component. With a standard PC, you often get about a year warranty, where with a home built it ins't too hard to get three years on most components.
Plus, you can hand select every little component. With retail PCs, you often find only the 'marketable' stats being hi. For example, a high end P4 with 128 Megs of RAM and crappy video card, and no-name motherboard. Of course this means you should research every little thing to get the best deal and this can take a bit of time.
Personally I have had good expereince with newegg.com in providing parts, but never rely on any positive reviews on their site, since those reviews are selected. The negative ones that are put through are usually worth reading, but it is important to find a less biased review site.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
You might also look at CCL, who I found very good. I bought a monitor through them when my old one died suddenly a few weeks ago. They have a plain but efficient web site, which appears to contain accurate current prices on their whole range. Those prices are pretty good, and they are often listed as the supplier in hardware tests by PC Pro magazine. You can order online (which got a 5% discount at the time I was ordering, but check that), or over the phone. When I did call to check a couple of details, there was no long wait to speak to someone and their staff were helpful and efficient. I value companies that give good service, so I offer this recommendation to others.
On the other hand, I wouldn't go anywhere near Jungle.com, who ripped me off completely. They failed to deliver a simple order for toner refills for weeks, completely misinformed me about the progress of the order, told me it was too late to cancel after a couple of days (we're on dubious legal grounds already), but then delivered the goods more than a month later and billed my credit card in spite of my explicit instructions not to do so (very dubious indeed). It then took several weeks of chasing them and Barclaycard to get my money refunded and a measly £5 compensation (which just about covered the interest I'd had on my Barclaycard as a result of not quite clearing it that month as a direct result of the incorrect debit by Jungle.com). I do not value this level of service, even from a web site that so carefully says "value - innovation - trust" in the header (ha!), so I pass on a warning to everyone else. May their pathetic service be the end of them.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
"This should save me quite a few bucks, and I get the exact system I want"
You could steal the components. Don't forget to "shop" around if you're that set on specifics. Yank a few ram modules, swap CPU's with someone who doesn't know a thing about computers (target home shopping network junkies), etc. You could save a few hundred bucks, more money for stupid case mods...
When it comes to nerds and crime I'm always reminded of Office Space.
i like grapes
Go Apple!
Yeah, the prebuilt manufacturers get builk discounts. You're presuming they pass that on to the consumer. They don't. That's what's called the margin on the sale for profit.
Every time I've built a machine I've built it better than what I could get prebuilt, cheaper than they were selling and I didn't have to worry about upgrade issues because of proprietary parts.
I see no reason for anyone who can build a machine to buy prebuilt except for two exceptions.
1: Laptops.
2: Macs.
-- Grey d'Miyu, not just another pretty color.
They're a pretty good shop, never had a problem returning anything. Everything is always well packaged and usually arrives undamaged by the package destroyers(UPS).
Shop around of course, just wanted to point out bunta since no one else has yet.
Good luck
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
The good thing about building your own is that you don't have to buy each and every component brand new all at once. You can recycle much of it... nic, video card, harddrive(s), floppy drive(s), cdrom(s), cdburner, etc. etc. etc. Unless you're totally starting from scratch, which is silly. Whenever I rebuild my computer, I usually just get new mb/cpu/ram, the rest from my current computer... except maybe a new case, if need be.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
Listen to the people who are telling you Tigerdirect sucks.
I once received parts from them that someone else returned--in the box that had the RMA on it and the address of the original purchaser. It hadn't even been opened by TD, they just tossed it into another box and shipped it to me.
And of course returning it was a bitch.
DO NOT BUY FROM THESE LOW LIFES!
I built a dream game system about a year ago. Huge case. 3 30 gig Deskstar drives. GeForce 2. Problem was the lights dimmed when I turned the beast on, and it sounded like a Jet Engine when I finally got enuff fans in to keep its heat down when playing quake III. Between the whine of the drives and the roar of the fans I couldn't stand to be in the same room as it. Plus it gave of an ozone smell. Headache city.
So I gave that system back to my company (they paid for the parts) and bought a system from Alienware. Nice and quiet. Stable and fast.
So my advice is go with a small but reputable builder like Alienware, Voodoo, or Falcon Northwest and save your self a headache.
I like traffic lights
www.pricewatch.com....... great site. Lowest prices all over the web...
I bought my last computer and a couple more purchases for bunta.com. They have everything you need along with a simple rating system for different parts. Shipping was a bit high but so far they've been very reliable and trustworthy.
Well, from my experience, you can't get alot of stuff from the standard vendors or Whitebox dealers. Ok, well you can get most stuff, but perhaps not stuff that you want.
What I mean is, that for my computer, I couldn't have gotten what I have now, with spending either a TON from a vendor, or doing it myself. Stuff like dual and quad processor boards, alpha chips, gigabit ethernet, scsi controllers, raid, high quality memory, highest end 3d cards, certain high speed hard drives, a good case, or a large case, or an expandable motherboard are NOT available unless you go the 'server/workstation' route through Dell or something and then you are gonna pay 4x what you should for a hard drive or memory.
I am using a Supermicro P6DGU with dual P3/850s. I can get a Raid controller for my system and I have a HUGE case (Supermicro 760A). I also have a SCSI CDR, etc... Not that vendors won't do this for you, but normally it's cheap mobos, cheap memory, cheap cases, powersupplies, etc...
On top of that, you will have to pay for Windows (version here) even if you plan on trashing it the day you got it. I got my laptop with WinME, but I wanted Win2K on it, still, in some way i had payed for it, without ever using it!
Cheaper for homebrews? Not always. But certainly more flexable. I am thinking of getting a Rack case, but you can't get that (except for servers) from most OEMs..
BTW I used pricewatch for most things
Tibbon
tibbon.com
I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who is building her own high-end system. She was interested in purchasing a dual P4 Xeon motherboard and googlegear.com was one of the only online merchants selling one.
She said the prices were very reasonable and shipping was super fast. I've never done business with them myself, so I can't vouch for them personally, but my friend's review was glowing.
I was recently in the market for the 48GB IBM Travelstar notebook harddrive. I already purchased the drive from another vendor, but now looking at googlegear.com I see I could have saved $30. It's the cheapest price I've seen yet (newegg.com doesn't even list it).
BTW, I don't believe they are affiliated with our favorite search engine google.com.
i'd recommend doing building your own pc at most once. it's a good way to familiarize yourself with pc hardware (i found the docs at sharkyextreme.com particularly helpful).
but when you roll your own, you're on your own, replacement-parts-wise. stuff breaks. so if the learning benefit will be small or nonexistent, i'd say go with a dell or another company that's willing to have your hardware headaches for you.
also, if i were to build my box over again, i'd try to avoid buying from bulk resellers, who send out components without documentation. sure, you can usually find the docs online, but it's convenient not to have to look.
...have /. moderators gone bananas?
What is the point of this post?
/. readers are from a range of countries and most will either not be able to offer advice or the advice given will be of no good.
Has the poster ever thought of IRC? This certainly should not be posted on a major news site. You can just imagine a major news article on BBC asking for hardware retailers.
Personally I buy from tigerdirect nearly 90% of the time. I know them and they are very easy to work with. The very few times they have shipped a defective part(an amd proc) they handled it quite nicely. Besides, they carry almost everything and for decent prices. Some online stores are hell to deal with. Not these guys. I highly recommend tigerdirect.com. :)
-btw No i dont work for them
Last year I ordered a Zip drive that came with a $20 rebate. I ordered a few days before the rebate deadline, so I specifically asked about it. I was assured the rebate would be fine, because it was based on the invoice date. Unit arrives, no rebate coupon. I call, am told they don't have any more, all they can do is "credit my account" for the $20. Next month I get the credit card bill: no credit. I call again, and they say they gave me $20 "store credit", and that a credit card refund is not possible. This week, I realize I'm out of CD labels and can use up that credit. I call. My "credit"? I don't have any, they say: supposedly they already credited my card! B.S. So what do I do now, dig out my old card statements and mail them copies to try to prove to them that they didn't do it? Screw that. But I think they're thieves.
Find a local 'wholesale' company that also sells via mailorder..
That way if somethign breaks you can drive across town and get a replacement on the spot.. Not a month + shipping waiting on parts.
Plus you have somehwer eto go to if you have problems.. MUCH better then a nameless person on a phone..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Computergate usually has very low prices, but you need to know what you're getting. For instance for a brand name motherboard you'll do fine, and returns have never been a problem in my experience. They do have some no-brand cards and memory and cases that I've generally had good luck with - but not perfect luck.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Not too long ago, you would have saved considerably by buying from your local "white box" maker, or building your own. Now, if price is your only concern, you're probably better off buying from one of the "bigs". Some of them, at least judging by their advertising and SEC reports, are selling computers for less than it cost them to make it. This makes it difficult for the small computer shops, or the individual building their own, to match prices. Having said that, you will come close or match the prices on the higher end systems.
One problem with many of the store-boughts is that they have limited upgrade capacity. The power supply and case generally are not set up to add much to them. If you decide later on that you'd like to add in a CD burner, or a DVD, you may be out of luck, or have to fork over additional $$$ for an external.
Another problem is that they come with a LOT of promotional junk, trialware, and "features" which you will spend a lot of time weeding out. I tallied over 10 Gb of HD space taken up by this on one of them.
If you're just looking for a computer that will browse the Internet, check your e-mail, enable you to type some letters, or do some graphics, and don't plan on changing anything, you're probably better off with a store-bought.
If you're looking for flexibility, want your computer to have only what you want on it, and like having local techs to support it/visit with, then go with the white box or build your own.
Believe it or not, sometimes those big department stores like Fry's or Best Buy aren't the worst buy out there. I remember back when I was putting together my Athlon 1800XP system, I needed to get some parts on the cheap to do the whole system. Noe of which were very heavy parts, but still. I shopped around online, and found some decent prices and all, but I didn't know the reputations of these places.. But...I was impatitient...so I went down to Fry's and started carting away what I needed. When I finally got through to checkout, the total price was maybe only about $20 above what I had calculated if I had ordered them online. And because I live in CA, pretty much anywhere I order from, I have to pay sales tax, because they have a branch here. I didn't even go into shipping. Buying from a local retailer had a big advantage that the mail order palces don't: Face time. Not only do I get to *see* the merchandise before I buy it, but I also can bring said merchandise back to a person, instead of having to pay for USPS or what have you. Don't underestimate the cost of face time. But, as always, be a smart consumer. Shop around.
Lets here it for College Street (at Spadina) in Toronto. Lots of fun to haggle and then there's no waiting for delivery.
Newegg is good, although their shipping rates can be crazy at times. At least they don't use UPS.
-Anon Cow
Hey,
;-) ), I'll also add another. well, maybe it's just cost savings, but if something goes wrong with my peecee, there's no way in hell I'm going to deal with Dell on the phone for five hours with their "ass"et tags and their "buy our consulting services" website. I hate dealing with that during the workday; there's no way I'll do it by free will!! Oh, and put my balls in their hands when I need to replace the power supply, and a regular ATX-p/s won't fit?!!! (please pardon the language, but it's really too much to bare thinking about). I paid an extra $125CAD for the extended warranty on my first mac... and the monitor (notorious multiscan 15) headed for the coast, no kidding, about 2 weeks after the warranty expired.
Kudos for actually answering the article's original question in the first place, rather than just linking to pricewatch or newegg. I never heard of the latter, tho. Sounds yummy.
To cost savings and increased fun (maybe
Now, I've got my own warranty (me) and my own mail server (linux) and don't needs to deal with any of them bonehead con artist "I'll sell you the device that will make all your troubles disappear" companies.
Nothin' wrong with mom and pop's, tho. Their cool.
Great selection, great prices, and superb service. Not to mention cheap shipping costs.
www.tcwo.com
I just built a brand-new system, and ordered everything except the case from Newegg.com. Very good prices, service, and quite fast shipping. I"m very happy with my new box.
RAM: www.crucial.com
everything else: www.newegg.com
reviews: www.anandtech.com
general price updates: www.pricewatch.com
questions, web boards: www.arstechnica.com
To debunk the metaphysicist, one needs only to take him outside and throw a rock at his head. If he ducks, he's a liar.
The Chip Merchant is a very good retailer from my personal experience. I have purchased a lot of stuff from them without a problem.
Another place to check out is The Computer Geeks if you don't mind not-quite-new parts.
Keep in mind that building your own computer isn't always as easy as it seems. YOU are the tech support. When stuff goes bad, you're the one fixing them. If stuff fails, you've got to track down the manufacturer (not always easy) for warrantee claims.
My friends and I use scan.co.uk. They are the cheapest I've found, delivery is fast, and they refund your money with absolutely no quibble if you return it (even if it's not faulty). They also do dozens of special offers every day, at TodayOnly. No connection to them, just my friends and I are satisfied customers. Recommended.
Building your own computer is probably cheaper, but the major benefit is that you can make sure you have an ideal fit for your money of the best component parts. I remember one major UK store headlining the cheapest P4 system available, but independent tests showed a cheap motherboard crippled the speed to well below an equivalent P3 system. Computers these days are so much like lego blocks my friend built his in under 1hr on his first attempt.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
This site is also helpful for certain parts (like CDRW and monitors): http://www.bensbargains.net
Generally there are huge savings in building your own high-end box. Do this...check out the specs on a $2000+ system from Alienware (fine machines I might add). Spec out the parts from newegg or elsewhere, and you could build that box (and only the box) for about $1000 or less.
Lower end machines, forget it...buy Dell/WalMart/Whatever, prices are way low on those, you can't beat them there.
Build your own computer. It's a worthwhile endevor, and you'll probably end up liking your product better than anyone elses.
There are a few things you should pay attention to when building your own computer.
1) Expect to pay more.
You can save money over a name-brand or white box, but if you do it right (by buying the highest quality components you can) you'll pay more.
This doesn't mean getting only 2.53Ghz P4's and nVidia Geforce4's. This means researching each component and selecting the best. If you've only got $50 for a CPU, do you get a 1.2Ghz Duron, or a 900Mhz Athlon?
2) If you buy online, don't use more than two merchants.
More than two merchants to get all your components, and any money that might've been considered a savings can be kissed goodbye in shipping charges.
Likewise, shipping monitors is expensive, and I find the price difference from local vs online to be negligable (YMMV).
3) Pay attention to what resllerratings.com has to say about a merchant.
These guys will save you a ton of headache.
Give preference to shops that have had plenty of reviews thrown at them and still maintain a decent rating (6.5+), and lower preference shops that only have a one or two reviews.
If you buy from an online shop, supply a honest review to resellerratings.com about your experience with a merchant.
4) Buy components that are known to work well with your favorite flavor of *BSD.
Why? Because if you do, you'll know your box will probably work nicely with pretty much any OS you throw on it, and will steer you away from things like Winmodems.
5) Overclock everything.
This is the sweet creamy center that is the oreo cookie of building your own computer.
Eek out the extra performance as you can only do with a computer that you built. Mild to wild, it's up to you, but definately squeeze out some extra power.
I was thinking of building a pc myself over the summer but I've never done it before and have no idea where to start. Where did you guys learn? Are there guides that will tell me what I need to get and how to put it together?
what has happened to slashdot? maybe soon we'll be getting ask slashdot questions about how to reboot windows machines.
I was setting up a machine as a gift for a relative, and I ended up purchasing one via the "Dell@Home" discount program offered by my employer.
I was able to configure the machine exactly as I chose, including de-selecting the included WinModem, and increasing RAM+HD storage. Final price, after free shipping and a rebate, was less than I would have paid to buy the parts separately.
Another advantage to buying from a big commercial vendor, when I move out of state, my relative won't have to call me long distance or wait for me to visit in order to get technical support.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
It never hurts to do your own research. But, nextag.com is a good place to start.
Moderator, explain yourself.
Otherwise, prepare to meet the wrath of metamod.
www.pc-beyond.com Ive ordered a few times and have have fast 2 day fedex for under $20 and recieved the right product. I have only used 4 times so I cant be sure, but I am impressed so far....
but don't go with a Dell. They use cheap parts.
I used to build my own machines, but it isn't worth it.
Pros:
If you build it yourself and get quality parts as cheap as you can, you may spend some less than buying it made from a good local shop.
You will definitely get it cheaper and better quality than buying it from bestbuy or dell.
Cons:
You will spend far more time finding the parts, and then putting it together. Unless you are doing it for fun, it's not worth it.
If any part has trouble, you might not be able to figure out what is wrong with the system. You might not be able to swap parts to see which part is bad, or if you just have something misconfigured, OR if some of the parts just don't work in that motherboard.
I prefer letting the small shop do it. They can test all of the parts. They have already put tons of machines together with these parts, so they know that they are all compatible. Best of all, if something goes wrong, it's *their* headache rather than mine.
Generally speaking I try to buy the majority, if not all my parts from one or two vendors, because shipping can really make or break a deal.
That's the case with us Canadian boys. We don't have a lot of online retailers up here. And I've found a lot of good deals down south, but shipping and duty remove the low price advantage. I mean to ship to Canada:
a) US currency for us Canadians is expensive these days. Before 1.29CDN bought $1.00US, now its (omg) ~$1.53CDN.
b) Fucking Duty. Canadian gov't love their fuckin' tax. I mean for duty we have to pay 15% tax(7% federal tax, 8% provincial) on top of the item. For example, if I buy something that costs $200 CDN from states, I still gotta pay an extra $30 for the tax.
c) High shipping costs. While most online retailers have "normal" shipping rates for US residents, for Canadian/International suckers they inflate the price. Plus, we don't get choice of shipping courier, and usually have to default to an expensive one like Fedex($20US - $30US).
d) And now we have a mysterious handling charge after 9/11. $5-$10 bucks CDN for package inspection.
All this means: I don't order from states anymore unless I get an excellent deal(only happens on ebay).
If you built your own PC, and going for powerful Athlon systems, be aware of the noise problem. You'll be in a constant battle between noise and heat.
I have a fast self-built machine, but it's noisy as hell. The amount of money I spent adding fans, grease, better power-supply, nice case...costed more than a branded-machine. Where as branded machines like Dell or Sony, do a terrific job in keeping the noise level down.
But I rely on Directron, NewEgg, and CyberGuys for all of my PC parts needs.
I built my first PC about a year and a half ago, and upgraded it often enough that with the purchase of a cheap case and mobo, I could build a second PC from the spare parts.
~Philly
NEWEGG.com is the way to go... no if ands or buts about it. I've spent over 4K with newegg.com with no problems. So what do I like about them? Well, they're upfront with their pricing(this includes the shipping), they typically have photos of the item your wanting to buy, they offer numerous grades(retail, oem and refurbished), and they offer special deals when you buy certain products togther.
would need to ask this question. Rot in hell you dumb motherfucker.
Dell does nice systems, in fact I've ordered several for other people, but if you want something different or special (and even non Intel base) you should look elsewhere. I normally build my own systems, because I like to know exactly what is going into them. Afterall, unless you open the box when you get it, your never quite sure what's inside. When dell starts offering AMD chips, I'll think about it. The AMD stuff is faster and cheaper IMHO.
http://www.bunta.com Great prices.
my favorite sites are: http://www.tcwo.com (free shipping!!) http://www.l-buy.com if i can't find what i want from either of those places I look on http://www.pricewatch.com I only get Crucial memory from http://www.crucial.com
www.2cooltek.com is an excellent place to buy heatsinks and other PC colling products. If you buy OEM processors you will want to go there. I recommend and prefer Alpha over all other heatsinks. I don't overclock my cpus anymore either.
BONESAW IS READY!/Randy Savage
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Can anyone suggest Australian sites with similar information and ordering?
I know about www.cougar.com.au
Thanks,
HH
You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
I can't vouch for everywhere but I live in Southern California and get the best deals buying from vendors I know at computer shows. I go to pricewatch.com first to get an idea of prices for particular pieces, sometimes even BestBuy, THEN hit the show. I buy only from dealers that have actual storefronts so if there's a problem, I don't have to wonder if I'll find them at another show. Always buy the CPU, motherboard and RAM from the same dealer. Show prices on PC components are always better than Pricewatch. You gotta know exactly what you want since there is a lot of crap around too that they are more than happy to unload.
free shipping at www.pclink2000.com at least it was the other day when I built a pc from them. Good prices too!
Anyone have any dealings with Monarch Computer? [http://www.monarchcomputer.com] I'm thinking about buying a custom bare-bones computer and they prices seem to be good.
Apparently they don't care about customers using Mozilla.
You can spend some time searching through Pricewatch.
I've been doing this for a custom system for a few months now (over half a year) and
this link has what I'm planning on putting together.
It should be good for sound, games, gfx and coding (all which I do.)
I would start with pricewatch. If nothing else, it can show you a general price range over dozens of stores for the stuff you want.
They list prices and shipping (usually), so most of the time you will know what the item will actually cost you. You can often times find very low prices for parts. Sometimes things like warranties and shipping are played with to make up for it, so make sure you're buying what you want.
I used to be a fan of home-built, and worked at a mom&pop pc store for a few years. Some companies have really taken thier quality to a whole new level with pc's. In fact, Dell's are as good if not better than something you buy from a local retailer. (IMHO, they are better hands down). Unless you want the whole custom built theme, grab a dell. They have all the options you would want for a system, plus thier warranty rocks. When your (insert favorite component) dies in 6 months, you don't want to have to deal with Admahad Rhussad in Illinois to get a RMA. Not to mention waiting at least a week.
Karma: SELECT `karma` FROM `users` WHERE `userid`=138474;
I dont know about you, but when i 'upgrade', it usually involves pirating a couple of old parts
from my old machine. If you are the type of person who doesnt keep your old machines running as mp3 servers and the like, then you have and old keyboard, mouse, pair of speakers, floppy drive, etc...
Hell, if youre like me, your friends give you their old, unwanted hardware. Glancing around my room i see a couple of old keyboards, two old mice (three buttons of course) a couple of gutted cases with a motherboard and 32 megs of slow ram, an old sparc station2, an HP Envizex X-terminal. I havent bought a CD-rom drive for about 3 years. They arent getting much faster. If i count the old cases with floppy drives, i see two 3.5in drives and two 5.5in drives.
Please, if you have extra hardware, give it to a friend who is building a machine. Recycling old
hardware can save someone building a new machine around $100.
Kan jeg få en pils, vær så snill?
TC Computers
for MB/CPU/CASE/etc
then grab a couple of super quiet case fans here:
Silencer Case Fans
I build my own this way and couldn't be happier. I'm ready to build another now and will go to those 2 places again to order.
I've also ordered from Directron and was happy with them as well.
PC
If I'm a nOOb looking to build my own box for the first time, where would be a good place or places to start looking? It's time to replace my P2 with something newer.
www.tcwo.com
Hasn't everyone been building their computers? The only one i ever bought was our first 386 one, but i didnt know about computers back then. Ever since i've built every computer i've owned.. there's always local stores, it takes 2 seconds to go and visit them. I'm not sure why you'd buy it over the net when stores have them... and, i'm surprised someone was buying built ones! Actually it might be cheaper in some cases, but you never know what you're exactly getting, or you're not getting exactly what you want.
Try Hard Drive North West: www.hdnw.com. They have every imaginable component of a PC from controllers to DVD-roms to motherboards. Some of the pre-built cases are cheap, about $399 for a 40 gig, 128 mb ram, 1.4 ghz computer.
But I also run Linux and I spec out my components so that I won't have a problem getting everything to work under the OS. I also tend to go for higher performance or quality than you'll get from a off the shelf PC. I pay more, but I get what I want.
A lot of the time those off the shelf PCs have a bunch of junk integrated onto the motherboard and a limited number of card slots. Don't even get me started about memory slots. So one of the things you want to look at is the difficulty of incrementally upgrading the store bought PC versus one you can build.
If you want to tinker with the hardware yourself, you also need to look at the case. Those desktop PCs give you no room to work and often come with razor sharp bits of metal in odd places. Unfortunately most salesmen will be hesitant to pop the cover so youc an look under the hood.
Store bought is a good solution these days, but not for me. I like to fix and upgrade my own hardware and I spec it all out right down to the power supply. It pretty much works down to how much money you have to spend and whether or not you're a hardware hacker.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
As a software developer, I have wasted a lot of time tracking down problems with home-built PCs. The problem is usually that the builder goes for the "too good to be true" parts, getting things that are not all that reliable, or they don't do enough reading to avoid common mistakes. One oddball issue I've seen again and again is certain types of hard drive adapters coupled with some sound cards can cause sporadic lockups in some games that transfer data in specific ways. It sounds weird, I know, but it happens, and it can be traced back to the type of hard drive connection people with the sound card are using. So do some reading and get some good diagnostic programs.
The shipping costs and delays make many US-based sites unreasonable for those of us down under.
Are there any suggestions of sites/suppliers in Australia or SE asia?
I will sell you an Audigy gamer for $49!! An Athlon XP 2000+ for $99!!! And a GF3 ti500 for $199!!!!
Then I'll stick everything into my tricked weight scale and charge you $400 for 2-week shipping! YAY!!!
I often go the upgrade route - upgrade a few components at a time until I eventually end up with two functioning machines. This is not cheaper than buying a new Dell (or whatever) but it does spread the cost out. Obviously it doesn't work if you need two machines now.
Server class machines are never cheaper from the likes of Dell, Compaq, IBM etc. You can often save a bundle building one from components. Provided you're willing to give up the easy warranty of course.
"This should save me quite a few bucks, and I get the exact system I want."
I think you need to ask yourself a few questions before you determine that building a computer yourself is actually saving you money.
----- How much is your time worth to you?
Do you have the time to sit down and troubleshoot issues? Do you have the time to pull apart your computer and fix it if need be? Could you be spending the time involved in maintaing your computer with your family? On work? @ Play?
--- Can you live with downtime?
What if you don't have the $ when a component goes dead to replace it? I was in a position a few years ago at university where my harddrive died with all my notes on a week before finals - Micron came through and I had a new harddrive inside of a few business days - but I as a student would not have had the money to replace it had i built it myself.
----- Are you prepared to have to deal with EACH individual hardware manufacturer of each individual peripheral in your computer?
Some sites you buy from a better than others and will act as intermediaries in the warranty process - but if not - YOU are personally responsible with dealing each manufacturer of each component. My friend recently lost a CPU (no not overclocking - Heatsink fastners on the ZIF socket BROKE and HSF assembly fell off the cpu) AMD did cover the replacement of his CPU but MSI would not replace his motherboard. He was without his Processor for a few weeks till AMD shipped him his replacement.
If you get an onsite warranty from whatever manufacturer you purchase your computer from you are saving yourself tons of time and headaches.
Purchasing from a local computer store vs a brand name? - If its a local computer store that has been around for a very long time and you do not plan on moving fine. But remember that most independant stores would require you to ship it to them if you moved somewhere else - for warranty coverage.
Personally I build my own computers. I've done tech support, sales, and its my hobby. I'm a university student and I do not mind spending my time maintaining my machine. Once I get a real job and get out of school Alienware here I come so that someone else can worry about my comp. Because at that point - It will no longer be worth my time.
Any of the better clone shops around Los Angeles can beat that. Here's one pretty close to your specs:
Asus A7M 266D motherboard
Dual AMD MP-2000+
512mb DDR
80GB HD
GeF4 TI 4400 128mb
16x DVD drive
Plextor 40x CDRW
onboard sound card
subwoofer speakers
ATX mid-tower (I believe they use those good Antek cases)
10/100 ethernet adapter
keyboard & mouse
WinXP Pro
1 yr parts/labour warranty (includes free tech support)
[monitor not included]
Are you ready for the price? Are you sitting down??
Total price, including assembly and 72 hour burn-in: $1699.00
(add 512mb DDR for $129)
(with a mere MP-1600+, total is $1499)
This happens to be from PC Buzz (cuz it was the first ComputerUser ad I came to with the right specs), but PC-Club and some other shops that I know and deal with myself offer very similar systems at about the same price.
I'd hate to think what such a box would cost from Dell or GW2K.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
The few times i've been home and watched the screensavers on techtv this is the question always answered.. And for the past i don't know how many years, go to pricewatch.com
my machine
i used partspc.com
and monitorsdirect.com
and econopc.com
what is nailchipper?
Yes, pricewatch rocks, and it's an invaluable tool. The second invaluable site is resellerratings.com. These two sites together rock! I've built about 15 machines so far using these sites, and so far no horror stories.
Like others have mentioned, I've been using newegg a lot lately - they have great prices and great service in my experience.
A friend's joystick died, so he asked to borrow mine. Once he smelled smoke, he realized that he'd plugged it into the AUI port of an Ethernet card.
If you're considering purchasing from an unknown vendor, check www.resellerratings.com. There are comments/testimonials on several vendors.
I've never built my own machine, although, I've built several for other people. What about BRAND machines? I know that they pack your machine with a lot of unuseful stuff, but you can easly re-format their HD's and load your prefered OS and make your own configuration. Where I live, Its not that easy to get good, quality parts to build a robust system and if you do, you can easly spend a lot more that the best VAIO money can buy.
This is exactly what I do, as well. My latest machine (working as a dhcpd and nat router for an internal wireless LAN) is nearly all "recycled" parts. Other than the RAM, case, and floppy, everything in the computer is left over from upgrades. Works out very well, and at the rate I upgrade I usually end up with another PC every 1.5 years.
I couldn't imagine anybody running a serious service would actually want to build their own machines. It's too much work, and you give up your support agreement. Obviously, if you need big iron, then you have some form of income to pay for it (or if not, it'll eventually get sold at auction when you buckle). Sure, it's possible to build server-level PCs (Supermicro makes some awesome cases -- I use the old SC750A full tower just for a personal machine, but it could be considered a small server case), but most companies want that support contract. That way, when you lose a drive in your RAID array, or a controller burns out, or a CPU gets fried, or whatever, it's all covered (yeah, yeah, you pay for it in the price of the service agreement, but you get a lot more than just replacement parts with a service agreement, as well).
Look at this morons web site:
/.
/. , but Im starting to believe the naysayers when they say slashdot is not the same as it used to be.
http://gregsearle.tripod.com/
He claims to be a computer artist/programmer, but has no proof of being either. He is obviously a NT troll. Again, look at the web site. I don't mind windows/mac/linux users asking questions on slashdot, but this is going too far. This is news for nerds? This is a question for nerds? This guy does not have the IQ points or the friends to ask around and see what "bare-bone" systems are available in his area? If we recommend a parts site, will this dude even have the brains to assemble the components.
Again, why is this stupid question even posted on
I've been a long time reader of
www.gamepc.com is great. I've never seen a place where you can order a laptop chassis if you want to.
They'll also tell you if you do something stupid, like try to order a motherboard and a cpu that won't work together, etc..
The small local dealers are generally run by morons and/or scummy unethical immigrants. They will cut corners and use inferior components from asian companies that specialize in manufacturing and selling dirt cheap components that are poorly designed and built.
Do the research, then buy mid-to-high quality components, either locally or via the the net., but don't ever buy a pre-built box from a local computer shop.
Sure it's less hassle to get a computer from Best Buy or Bob's Discount Computers, but of course they advertise it as an "Athlon XP 2100+" for example. Problem is, every other part in that whole computer is trash. Completely generic and not worth the pcb it was built on. Of course I agree with everyone else on pricewatch and newegg...I don't think it needs to be posted a thousand times though. I just ordered parts for a new computer through NewEgg...received them immediately, everything was great. I was referred to Axiontech by a friend (http://www.axiontech.com) and I've been having problems with them since I ordered, but I still think it's a good place to look (As long as you can understand Englishnamese if you need to call, else you will get NOWHERE.) My advice for people using Pricewatch is to pick the shops reccomended by the manufacturer. For example, on Corsair's website, you see Monarch listed as a reseller, and you can be sure you'll get your stuff. Don't be caught with a bad company.
That's all nice but what abpout places in Australia? There are swap meets, etc. that sell good hardware at good prices... Any other good places? Anyt good places online?
I walked into the used computer store in my town and bought a IBM IntelliStation for $200. Top-quality HW, 90-day warrantee, cash-and-carry.
- SWM
I just assembled a duel processing machine for myself. The place I go the memory, MB, a processor, and case was at www.motherboardexpress.com. Since this was my first duel processor, the guy made sure that I got the right parts, including the bigger power supply, and the right processor. (Not all processors can work in duel processor motherboards.)
:)
As for odd parts (such as cases, power supplies), check out www.jdrmicrodevices.com, for general parts and software, nothing's beat Global computers (which use to be MidWest Micro), at: www.globalcomputer.com,
www.CDW.com is also another great place too.
I've been building my own system since 1988, and always used these places. Never had a problem with them.
The best idea I can give anyone, is watch restocking fees, try to go as cheap on shipping. You'd be surpised how fast, and cheap USPS is. Also finally ALWAYS use a credit card. It's much easier to get them to talk to you, when you cut off their money
Shadowwalker Delaforge
YMMV, but I have no regrets.
Build stuff. Stuff that walks, stuff that rolls, whatever.
I personally wouldn't recommend Tiger Direct for anything. This is the only company I've been royal shafted on, and many other people I've spoken too, said the same.
Shadowwalker Delaforge
I generally select the pieces I want go to a local shop and buy them, their prices can be comparable to online retailers, and if you buy the whole system they may assemble it for free (cables and such).
If you have to assemble it yourself, you might want a skilled friend. But I generally lean to having someone else do it for me, I'm lazy, and they might even get it built by the time I'm off work if I drop off a deposit the day before.
At least for me it is. I can't compete on price with any of the big chain stores. I guess I _could_ put together some box with the lowest price parts in it but I don't build _my_ boxes that way. I use quality parts and that makes my boxes more expensive than dell or whoever.
:)
Of course, once you have a good base, it's not that expensive if you upgrade it all the time.
I use pricewatch.com when i'm ready to buy.. i've used a few of the companies that come up tops in price for cpu's and tyan, asus, abit motherboards.
What better way to learn how a computer is put together than to put one together?
Great, now you know what those monkeys in the screwdriver shop get paid $8 an hour for doing. How impressive.
Sorry for being so negative, but it ain't like it used to be in the old days when you actually learned something by building your own system (i.e. in the days before the IBM PC). It's a matter of piloting a phillips screwdriver without hurting yourself, and not a heck lot more than that.
Assuming that you are in or near a larger city. It's possible that smaller communities may not have good computer shops with great service and reputation.
Can't say that you'll always save money but you will get exactly what you want.
Dealing with a reputable and competent local dealer can often times be a better bet if they are able to help you with any problems you may run into. A local shop I deal with regularly both personally and through work was able to exchange a motherboard that died a month past the one year warranty (actualy nearly one month to the day if you can believe it!)
I can't think that a web based shop would do the same for you. Could be wrong though but I still prefer to buy locally when possible.
I have saved ~30% every time I've built a computer from scratch. The other aspect to consider is that with the package deals, you might not necessarily get everything you want/need for the best in Linux Supported Product. Careful.
Really? You'll have a hell of a time designing a 4-layer printed circuit board that won't fail at the memory bus speeds.
It would take many man-years to design the ASICs for the bus controllers, I/O, sound, and CPU support.
And all that fancy equipment you need to do wave soldering would take up a good chunk of you garage.
Back in the Apple ][ days, people still used to build computers from scratch, because they were still 100% off-the-shelf components. I've seen friends from the FSR show me Apple ][ clones they wire-wrapped, part by part, using some chinese clone 6502 chip as the CPU.
Today, of course, building a computer from scratch means only taking about 10 components and shoving them in a case.
--
Ask the Ya-Hoot Oracle Anything!
I've bought a case and other parts from directron.com and recently orchestrated a large purchase for a school computer systems lab from mwave. Both were excellent in service, price, and speed. I would highly recommend either.
I would suggest for general computer components to try computers4sure.com.
...and if you do anything, stay away from Dell!
I noticed no one has mentioned Provantage.com. Their prices may not be rock bottom on everything, but they seem to have a HUGE selection (it's interesting that they have real time inventory numbers, and large ones at that). It looks bigger than newegg's, from a cursory 5 minute comparison. I have shopped from provantage many times, and with a warehouse on the East Coast, they get things to me within 2 days every time, usually less. Shipping is very reasonable as well. I would definitely recommend this site for buying many parts at once.
http://www.pricewatch.com is a good starting point, but http://www.newegg.com has really good prices for small stuff. For larger items that shops like to jack the price up on, http://www.tcwo.com is an unbeatable bargain- $6.95 ships anything up to 150 pounds.
Depending on what you are looking for I have found excellent buys here www.compgeeks.com
~~Some people never go crazy what truly horrible lives they must lead.~~ Charles Bukowski
Personally, for my uses, I'm use the computer for the latter purpose and have been quite happy running Linux on a cheap Cyrix 300 MHz system. I do lot of surfing, writing, and spreadsheet analysis with StarOffice (actually, I've just upgraded to OpenOffice 1.0). However, I have built a number of systems in the past and have found these links are a must:
Pricegrabber
Pricewatch
CNET's price comparison site
Techbargains (if you are patient enough to wait for that perfect machine to be affordable)
Your time is really worth the money, and when it comes down to it, those cheap systems from Dell, Compgeeks, or Walmart are actually worth the heartache that you may encounter later when you find out that the motherboard you bought has spotty USB support in Windows 98. And if you add up how much you'd spend to make a comparable system, you'll find out that you're only saving a miniscule amount, if that. But again, if you wanted a high-end machine, then building your own will definitely be worth the time and effort to find the right parts and putting them together.
Linux at home
1 year warranty, all the systems and parts and very cheap, check it out.
The only place to buy your processor is TCWO.COM a place in tampa. They have cheaper prices for processors than newegg.com, though, i recommend newegg for everything else. Definitly check out tcwo though, they have an 800 #, real friendly staff, return policy, and a store front (ive been there, they exist;)
I hope you get all the way down to reading this one.
1) Checkout pricewatch. Look for shops with your area code, IF there is one in your area you can sometimes sweet talk them into giving you there pricewatch price without paying for shipping!
2) Don't buy a CompUSA case!
Lastly a question - Are you installing Linux or already have a Windows license to use?
IF NOT, you might want to consider Dell (www.abscomputer.com or pick up a Computer Shopper), as the cost of OS and other software will typically outpace any homebuilt savings from having to buy Windows.
---- Smokin' another sig.
Unfortunately it adds cost to remove noise (sigh) but I'm quite pleased with the way my last home-built PC came out. Nice fast box with raid-striped drives and far, far less noise than any other PC in my house (or at work for that matter).
Check out QuietPC.com -- they are a Canadian company but they recently added online ordering in the US and UK. The "flower cooler" for my AMD Athlon XP 1900+ works like a champ. Took a few days longer to receive the stuff I ordered from QuietPC than it did to get the stuff I ordered at the same time from Googlegear, but I live a lot closer to Googlegear.
Start with www.pricewatch.com then check the sites that have the best prices against www.resellerratings.com. You should be able to find the best prices at the most honest reseller for your money. Be aware however that the better the price often times means that you're taking a bigger risk. Sometimes paying a little bit more for that comfortable feeling is worth it.
Recently I bought a prebuilt system, to be precise, a eMachines T4155, for $549 at Office Depot (a floor model discount on a clearance item, so at least I knew it was burned in for a considerable time)...
The reasons were simple, my car died on me some months back, so I needed to get something from a local retailer as opposed to running all over the Puget Sound looking for decent bargains, didn't feel like waiting a week for miscellaneous components purchased through PriceWatch, and didn't have a check card/credit card to make the purchase with otherwise... Considering the area the Puget Sound covers, I would have wasted a couple of days running about, which, if you prorated the time spent @around $10 an hour (because that is the minimum you would charge if you were building a system for someone else), then you're talking $160... And now the specs:
FIC VC31 motherboard - Usually around $90 on average...
Pentium 4, 1.5Ghz - Usually another $80-$100, depending on street prices at the time...
Maxtor 60 Gb ATA 100 - About $120 average...
LG CD-R/W, 12x8x32 - Usually about $50-$60...
Samsung 12 DVD ROM - Approximately $40-$50...
256 MB PC133 SDRAM - $30-$40...
Reference Geforce2 MX card - $40...
Micro ATX case/PS - $30 for a good run of the mill case...
Since most who buy their hardware also have to go to several different retailers to pinch every penny, lets assume each one, if you pick the cheapest rates, charges you about $8-$12 for UPS ground, leaving you waiting about a week for you to recieve your components... Total would come to about $30-$50
Total cost (based on average street price): $490, add shipping and you have almost the same price I paid for the prebuilt model, which for all intents and purposes uses the cheapest "passable" hardware...
Sure, some can build for cheaper, with better components, but you probably would wind up spending more (unless you know where I can get a nice Geforce4 card for under $50, which I doubt)...
However, for a starting foundation, it's more than adequate... In either case, it's a tossup, between convenient and quick, and marginal savings VS inconvenient waits...
The bottom line for PC hardware has finally reached bottom, you can't really get it any cheaper, unless the company that made it is going to declare Chapter 13 and vanish off the face of the earth...
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
i think you will find the best parts under your bed, or in a closet somewhere :)
my dual boot, Pentium 75 with a 1 meg video card and 900 MB harddrive, with coax ethernet and a 1x cd rom is all i need. coupled with my 14.4 modem, i have a lean mean surfing machine. who needs quake and realtime streaming video? doom is plenty for me :)
but seriously, i find it fun to just throw pieces together and get some new computers. they may not be the best thing, but for some purposes, they are all you need.
- HeyYou
US: www.dealsdirect.com
Canada: www.dealsdirect.ca
I live in Ottawa and they have a store plus also an online website. In the Ottawa Canada region you usually can't do better for prices and quality components. I used to buy from Tolga but have found that their components are more generic stuff but when you want uber-fans etc, Deals Direct is good.
I found canadacomputers.com to be a much better place to shop. Have had some problems with NCIX.
Willy
I was thinking actual links, not just stuff off the top of your head. Anyway, you still need: a mouse, keyboard, and speakers. And where can you get a case with a power supply for $25 new?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I bought a sort of middle-end computer recently, and I found that what I wanted was almost exactly what local stores carried. It is worth looking at a few local places to see if they do have what you want at a good price.
Of couse, you may have done this already.
Yes they're cheap, yes the daily specials have lured me to order from them - and every time have got screwed in some way.
Counter staff seem to be consist of owners surly teenage daughters or grumpy wife. Whichever is manning counter they induldge in seeing how long they can keep the queue before people leave.
I bought a DVD decoder from them, didn't give PAL output (I'd specifically asked) it took over 4 months from me returning it to them refunding me.
I send off large order by fax to them, order didn't arrive. Phoned up and was told they don't read the faxes. Gave order over phone after little outburst and they got that wrong.
That's just the first few things that spring to mind.
I know other people who have the same problem as me. We swear never to use them, see a special offer that is soo cheap and promise ourselves that if we just go down, pick it up (and just that single item) in person - what could possibly go wrong? Normally something does.
A cow (female) that speaks with a male voice? Are they trying to make a subtle political statement about the usage of hormones in cattle? Maybe some transgender issues at Gateway? More than likely, stupid advertising pukes, but you never know.
Dont know if somebody already mentioned this, www.tcwo.com offers a flat shipping rate of $6 for anything u buy. Buy a monitor and they will ship it for $6.
Their pricing is reasonable too.
Kind Devil
You are not truely a geek until you let the smoke out of an expensive piece of hardware. I learned to build systems at the end of the 486/dawn of the Pentium age, and the best mistakes that I learned from were usually the costly ones. You know, the hard drive dropped on the concrete floor, the AT power supply switch that I wired wrong (now that REALLY was a smoker!), the motherboard that flexed too much while installing an old ISA sound card in a case with brackets that didn't line up....I could go on and on. Just build it yourself, and don't be afraid to scan the hardware newsgroups and ask questions if you can't find the answers you need. Oh and one last bit of advice....brass threaded stand-offs for mounting the motherboard...these are your friends!
They aren't always the cheapest, but because they're in a different province, the 8% savings on PST often makes up for the difference.
Another neat feature of NCIX is that they often have Overclocked packages for sale. I think the current one is P4 1.6A + mobo +256DDR, and guaranteed to run at 2.1GHz.
If you live in the Toronto area, CanadaComputers.COM is a good place to get deals on hardware. Unfortunately they don't have an online store, but the prices get updated almost daily. Of course, one of their stores is just a stone throw my from home so it's not a problem for me.
my partner is buying a new computer from a local reseller today. he didn't trust me to put it together for him. :)
At any rate, it turned out to be very cheap and he specified every part that he wanted, no thrown in crap and we are re-using some parts out of the old machine too.
I built a computer last year. I got the whole shebang for $35. I got a Pentium III 450mhz, CD-RW, 20gb HD, modem, etc etc. The secret? Dad works for a computer company. All the parts were refurbished, and being discarded. This happens at all the big companies. If you know anyone with access to the spare parts basement, you're set.
System is a little wonky from time to time (so I don't do anything super essential on it) but it works pretty well for photoshop and stuff.
I have done well with computergate.com.
May consider starting with a "barebones" motherboard/cpu/case. Then add RAM, HDD, CDROM, etc. Setting up the MB and putting the MB in the case is the toughest part - saves a lot of trouble to buy barebones.
If you are in no hurry, and if you're not too fussy, you can get stuff at CompUSA for practically give away prices - after annoying rebate. Never "give away" prices on MB's or CPUs, but other stuff: HDD, CDROM, can be free or nearly free after rabate.
Local computershows often have the good prices.
Be very very careful about the MB, if it doesn't work, they may say you broke it. Another reason to go with barebones, at least you know it works.
thats all you'll ever need. and the best prices too.
Let me give a big fat plug for Directron.com. I'm a pretty picky and fussy buyer, but I was able to find everything I needed on their site, and for a small fee (something like $30) they assemble it all for you (worth it to avoid the hassle). Plus you can pay extra little fees for all sorts of goodies: case mods, paint jobs (wide selection), case badges (free for orders over $100 I believe), wire ties, etc.. If you go to their specials section you can find all sorts of coupons and extras. They also have specials and coupons almost daily that they send out in an opt-in list. A lot of their parts have discounts for bundling with another related part. I can't say enough good things about Directron. It sure beats wasting your whole damn life searching for the best deal on every little part and then paying shipping seperately and assembling the mess yourself, when you can get people who do this day in and day out to assemble (and optionally test) it for you.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
definately TCWO.com is the place to go for computer parts... i have not been able to find a place that beats them yet! they have great support too... try them out TCWO.com
pricewatch is great, as long as you have www.bbb.org open in another windows to check stuff out, it has a searchable database that has most companies.
I've tried to buy PC components everywhere, and there are a few places that just don't make sense.
Onlines stores are not bad, as long as they are a big name. Newegg is pretty good, but honestly, if you don't know what you are doing, and end up getting a defective part, or just but parts that are plain incompatible, then the return process just destroyed the whole point of the online cheapness.
I started buying locally, and I still do, the prices are only slightly higher then online (you have to hunt for the right store, just like online), and I can return a part no hassle, just with a drive or walk to the store. No days worth of shipping, no misorders, shipping fees, etc.
The only good point of buying online is saving tax money here. But if I have to cross the border from the US to Canada, it is the biggest rip off yet, since they charge you all the tax at the border, plus their outrageous service fee.
I still do occasionally buy special parts online, that most stores, and most online stores won't carry.
Don't go to a retail store, the prices are disgusting, even if they offer their lowest price guarantee, $60 higher per part is not uncommon, they just know how ignorant 99% of people are, and if it says its the lowest price, it must be, right?
Overall... buy local, a small store, tucked in a corner somewhere, they will have many resellers working out of there, oem customers, and they will order almost anything you want if they don't have it. Their prices are better then most webstores, but not as good as newegg, but then again, you can see what you are buying, not some generic jpg that really isn't what they are selling, because I see that a lot.
Try VillageGeek.com. They offer very good value and have always delivered exactly what they said they would on time. They offer individual components as well as "barebones systems" (a set of compatible components) that you assemble yourself.
White-box builder tend to skimp seriously on the quality of component. If you are like me, you won't be able to make the compromise that will make you home-built system as cheap as these white-box. For 20 more $, the case can be so much better, and another 256 MB of RAM would cost only 40$, etc ad nauseum.
On the other hand, you will *choose* the compromise made. For example, I like to buy the lowest-end possible CPU just before they become unavailable. I like it since you pay 25% of the cost will getting 50% of the performance of the higher-end CPU. Wait 6 month to a year and you can afford the previously top-of-line for less than the difference between the actual lowest and higher-end. Anyway, just an example.
Compromise I don't make :
- Motherboard. It can outlive many CPU if choosed carefully, and this is the most annoying thing to troubleshoot if unstable.
- I buy retail CPU. They come with a right-size fan of good quality that are relatively quiet. A retail will cost you less than an OEM and a good HSF.
- Case design. Good-looking and functionnal make it so much more enjoyable.
To have all your questions on choice of component answered by real maniac of that particuliar field, try the different forum of ArsTechnica at http://arstechnica.infopop.net
:wq
Places to go (that I haven't seen mentioned)
The local computer show. In my area, it's at the Pomona Fairgrounds. I recently got a Really good system built for me for $432 minus the monitor.
BestBuy. Well, not for everything, but I've found good NIC cards, and 19 inch MAG monitors are around $150 right now.
Place not to go:
UBID.com It's a bidding site, but the prices almost invariably begin at about $10 below market value, and people bid them up from there. That's not counting shipping.
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
I use http://www.unitedmicro.com when I ordered my motherboard and cpu.. they have a great site design for finding exactly what you want and the brand you want.
Also be sure to check out www.tomshardware.com to read up on the latest and greatest boards out there.
heres a good place to buy stuff cause its where i bought all the parts for my pc when i built it they also have realy good prices on the parts like ram and cpu's Http://www.tigerdirect.com Http://www.csg2000.com Http://www.computergate.com/
The A7N is, if memory serves, Asus's nForce board. That comes with ethernet, sound, and video. The monitor is something that should be bought locally to save on shipping, and the rest is trivial or salvageable. I don't know, IMHO the tech support and warranty aren't worth the 100% markup. Hell, who really needs tech support for a private desktop? If you're ordering for a business or ordering a server, sure. But for personal use?
..caveat emptor and whatnot.
You may find really cheap 'name brand' components somewhere. Think carefully. How's the return policy at that place? Will they give you a hassle? How do they do shipping? Is everything guaranteed? Warranties?
Also, try to buy only from one place if you're after money savings. Shipping charges *really* add up!
I prefer to build my own. I buy the cheapest shit I can get, many times it does not work, slowly I am learning. But I love commodity pc hardware, no sense in paying apple or sparc prices for stuff that performs, I can do better on my own.
Linux r0x.
"never met a Microsoft zealot"
Especially if you ever plan to upgrade. . .
s /u pgrade3_01_01.asp
Dell, on virtually every machine manufactured since '98,use non-standard pinouts on their atx power supplies and mobos.
IF YOU SWITCH A DELL POWER SUPPLY WITH A "NORMAL" ATX PS, YOU WILL KILL BOTH THE BOARD AND THE PS.
This "killing" is usually rather spectacular, dell power supply to an atx board = flames out the back of the ps.
http://www.upgradingandrepairingpcs.com/article
http://inquirerinside.com/19040209.htm
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There are good cases and bad cases, and a lot more of the latter than the former. Judging a case without actually inspecting it inside and out is basically impossible, so you should buy (or at least shop for) the case locally. Order everything else if it's cheaper.
Overall, you may or may not save money on building a machine yourself, but approaching it from a money-saving angle is missing the point.
The main reason to build a machine yourself is quality and compatibility. I do not buy machines, I only build my own (notebooks excepted, of course). I use only standard, quality components and know exactly what's in each machine.
Typically, this will be an Adaptec SCSI card (if I'm using SCSI), a Matrox video board (b/c I don't care about games or 3D, but do want the best 2-D and sharpest, clearest text and my old G200 does this better than any newer GeForce or TNT boards I've used; Matrox delivers), a major brand motherboard, major brand disks (I'm partial to IBM, but recent Seagates are also quite nice), good memory, nothing off-brand.
I don't save money over what I'd pay for a ready-made system, but I beat them on quality and standards.
I also have had good experiences purchasing from tcwo.com
They ship promptly and were good about taking a personal
check (since I don't do credit cards) given adequate ID
(a driver's license number). All-around good experiences.
I've purchased from them several times.
Their selection is not exhaustive, but it is a good
representation of the things you are likely to need.
Most of the things I've needed that they didn't have
were specialty items that I ended up getting direct
from the relevant manufacturer (an Avant Stellar
keyboard from CVT, for example), although once when
I needed a lengthier cat5 patch cable I had to go
elsewhere (Computers4Sure IIRC) for it.
I had a different experience (one I would tend not
to charactarise as positive) attempting to purchase
from LinuxWarehouse, wherein I was sold an item that
was no longer in stock, and my order was cancelled
without notification, but my check was cashed...
I eventually got my refund, but it took months.
(Lest this be mistaken for libel, I can provide
specific details by email upon request, but I won't
bore all of slashdot with them.)
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
If you buy a "cheap pc" your likly to get some pretty crappy hardware. I have repaired systems like the "e-machines" and such. There was a company near here awhile back that was selling dirt cheap PC's something around $499, the thing was onboard video, onboard audio, one 1PCI slot, and a 120watt PS, which means that there was just enough bare juice to make it run but if you added any hardware it would bring the machine to it's knees, the funny thing was the case wasn't the standard ATX, and the PS was slightly odd in shape which ment that you had to turn around and buy a new case to get all the bits to start working.
Om, nomnomnom...
When selecting parts, I usually head over to groups.google.com and see if there are any complaints or common problems with the part.
That being said, I also wouldn't skimp on motherboard or memory. Low end motherboars create unstable systems. Right now, where I work, we are sticking to Tyans and Gigabytes, which are only a few bucks (about $20) more then the competition, but make up for it with higher quality systems. Also, try to buy a real modem, winmodems suck when you switch over to linux. Buy a creative sound card, they're usually compatable. And remember, good quality ram. Lots of it. You don't want to swap if you can help it.
In my opinion, the prebuilt $500 OEM systems are crap. Yes, they might be a P4 2000 or an Athlon XP 2100+. But are they using CAS2 memory? Is the video card integrated? Is the sound card just an AMR? How about that cheap winmodem that can't connect worth a damn. Or the 5200 RPM hard drive with long seek times. Processor speed alone does not make a system fast. Motherboard, Hard Drives, Memory, and Video Card play crucial roles for the speed of a machine. Also, think of upgrading - the minitowers (especially the HP ones) are a pain to work with, with little room, and often are propriatary enough to prevent swapping out mbs in the future. Not to mention erratic driver support for some components.
Just my $.02
If the manufacturer of your surge protector or UPS promises to replace equipment that is damaged by a power spike, better check the fine print. If your equipment isn't a branded model with a price in the manufacturer's blue book, you're up shit creek.
Definately look for a case at a computer show if you can.... they're much cheaper and usually come with a power supply mounted and ready to go...
Hmmm witty sig or funny sig? Maybe elitest techy sig!
Unless you really know what you are doing I don't recommend building your own. What I can recommend is finding a computer shop that is willing to build to order. There are many reasons that you may not have thought of
Whether you build yourself or have a prebuilt system, here are some things to look out for:
First and foremost, have an adaquate power supply. Don't go buy the CompUSA special. CompUSA here actually does sell an Antec P/S and the specs on it are good. Don't ever go by the wattage. The Antec 330W supply outputs more current on every voltage line than the CompUSA 400W. Shop around, read the detailed specs, make sure you are getting plenty of current especially on 3.3 and 5 volt lines.
Secondly, you'll want a good motherboard. ASUS generally has a great name, although I have recently had to return an ASUS (possibly due to my violation of rule #1 though, but at least they did replace it). I have had really good luck with Gigabyte and know others who have. Gigabytes are also a bit cheaper than ASUS, I think you are paying a little bit for the ASUS name sometimes.
The CPU is now days probably the least important component in the system. AMD makes plenty of cheap processors that certainly perform very well. Intel makes some damn pricey processors that also perform well. Your choice.
Memory is another item you want to be rock solid. Don't skimp and buy the generic whatever the hell RAM. It's like $10 more for a name brand manufacturer's RAM with a warranty, get that.
Floppy.. they're about $15-$20 for the drive usually.... you'll probably want one for one reason or another, if for nothing else than Linux boot disks :-)
Optical drives (CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, CD-R(/W), DVD-R(/W)): It used to be I'd recommend to get a DVD drive for use as your primary CD-ROM and then get a CD-R/W for writing CDs only. Of course now with the advent of the DVD-R(/W) drives it makes more sense just to get one of these that can handle it all. However, if budget is tight then I guess you go with either DVD or CD-R/W... it's a shame too if that's the case because you really do want both.
Hard drive... Dunno what to say here. Lately I've been using Maxtors... although recently I purchased an 80GB model and noticed that it was really a quantum drive. I remember the deal with Quantum bigfoots being probably the worst hard drive ever made, but I think that their regular 3.5" drives were just fine. Western Digital used to be my favorite way back in the day, but I did have a lot of those crash which prompted the switch to Maxtor. Of course that is my experience, I'm sure someone is bound to have an opposite story. Again, though it may seem like a moot point since if your HD crashes you lose ALL your data (unless you keep backups) you still want to have a good 3yr warranty on the HD. All the WDs I had that crashed were replaced under warranty so at least I didn't lose all the data AND have to shell out cash for a new one.
There are other things like soundcards, modems, ethernet, whatever. I recommend buying a MB with ethernet port on it if possible, or buying an ethernet card with the system. Integrated sound generally sucks but does make configuration easier. Oh, BTW, don't turn on legacy audio support if you are installing Win2k... it causes hardware detection to cause an NMI (non-maskable interrupt).
Hope that helps you or someone else a bit
I agree with you that a local white-box builder is an optimal choice in that situation, but there are some advantages to buying dell, micron or gateway...the support is generally excellent, the cost isn't extremely out of whack (anymore), and if a part dies, you can usually have a replacement within 7-10 business days, more if you pay for some shipping, I think. You can also go to places like the Gateway country stores and get parts sometimes, if you've called tech support already.
Definitely not a preferential thing for a home user that is considering building one, but there are still a few advantages there, if minor...
Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
Non one on the web can beat the prices those wogs & Asians (mostly Taiwanese) charge at the markets.
Here in Sydney & regional NSW there are 2 groups that move about having markets in different areas on different dates, just pick a storeholder that warehouses his stuff in a a suburb near your home or business, in case something needs to be returned.
CFA
CFNSW
www.accessmicro.com
i like them they have good prices lots of deals and good barebone/build-it-yourself packages only costs you $20 for assembly and testing all parts are their price plus probably saves on shippin?
First, add the dealnews.com (a news site, not a reseller) box to your slashdot. Watch it for two weeks swooping up some stuff for really cheap. then get everything else from newegg, accept your ram, get that from somebody listed on dealram.com (a ram listing).
My personal reccomendation is:
AMD CPU
Gigabyte MB (333)
DDR RAM (ECC)
IBM 120GXP (several sizes) drive. Don't get sucked into the ATA-133 myth.
nVidia Ti4?00 video card
Enlight cases are the best under $60. There are some even nicer cases but you will pay for them. Fill in the rest as you see fit.
There's still quite a lot of high class bits and pieces from exploding dot.bom companies and the downturn generally whizzing past on ebay. I got quite a nice new scsi drive and video card at sensible prices off there. Both still working well after six months.
well, I live near one of small places, with a web presense, PCSFOREVERYONE.COM. Take a look at their site. But one thing to keep in mind is that it is still may be cheaper to have the PC built for you. Consider the following: (i) they purchase the components (like motherboards, cases) in quantities, so it costs them less. You can purchase the same components from them, but for a higher price. (ii) they are professionals, have diagnostic equipment, (iii) the cost of laber - unless you have a plenty of time on your hands.
i've always been quite pleased with the goods from PC power and computing. it might not be the cheapest, but a cool running & quiet machine makes a huge difference in the long run.
- Nickie
You cannot beat pricewatch. However, be smart about it.
You will find companies that must be selling at a break-even point or even at a loss, leading certain categories. While many believe that part of their scam is to make it back in shipping (it's probably not, calculating exact shipping costs is often a lot of work, many just charge a ballpark), the real purpose is to get you looking at their site so that perhaps you'll buy other products which have sweeter margins. Buyers are often inclined to do just this to cut down the shipping costs.
Add up the numbers using that method, and then go back to pricewatch and pick the absolute lowest price in each category of parts you need. Even if they're not from the same company (you'll notice that no one company leads all of the categories, not even close). Even with shipping costs from so many individual vendors, you'll probably find the price to be far less than if you had gotten more parts from fewer vendors.
Having just built a high end graphics workstation for my sister, the end quotes differed by as much as $300 (it was $1500 and $1200, including shipping). Shop wisely.
I think it was at crucial.com where I saw this explaination. Apparently, when the major brands make RAM, they put it through a lot of stress testing, and ensure that it works well past the required specifications. Supposedly chips that pass this testing have a 99% chance or so of never failing. If the chip doesn't make it through the full testing, then tell sell it off to other companies, who are required to sell it without the brand name on it. That's what generic RAM is. So some generic RAM will work fine, provided you don't try to overclock the hell out of it or anything. Other times you'll get a chip that'll barely work at all. I'm pretty sure they throw out the chips that don't pass the minimum testing, but even so, you're buying parts that won't work if you go a little off spec. So I'd say buying brand name RAM is well worth the added price, as you tend to get better warrenty terms, plus you know it's passed every test they've thrown at it.
Two problems here. .
1. You actually CAN"T buy a "pretty good system" for the same price as it would cost to build your own PC, because all those bargain systems cut corners like crazy, using the absolute cheapest parts possible; somebody was buying up all those shoddy, low RPM Indian hard drives three years back, and it certainly wasn't the build-it-yourselfers!
You might spend about the same money building your own system, but you won't be using crap components. This is a big consideration.
2. As for the giant retailers getting discounts for buying OEM products in bulk and passing on the savings. . , well, guess where computer parts shots get their stuff? --Where I live, in Toronto, (which I understand, is in fact one of the best places on the planet for buying computer parts cheaply), the small computer shops will band together to purchase whole shipping palates of hardware at the manufacturer's discount. --Plus, they have a limited staff compliment so their operations are often about as expensive to opperate in the long run.
3. Warranty is not so big a deal. Your busted CD Burner, by virtue of your having bought it, comes with some kind of support. If your computer breaks down and you drag it into the place you purchased it to have it repaired, (And thank goodness you bought that $70 warranty!), all the technicians do is pull out the broken part and ship it to the manufacturer to have it replaced or refunded. If they're nice, they'll put in a new working part and send you home then and there, or otherwise, they'll wait until the replacement part ships back to them. One way or another, though, they're just taking you $70 to do exactly what you could do for yourself, minus the fifteen bucks to UPS a CD Burner to its maker. Granted, this is a hassle, but you can certainly do it yourself if things break.
Indeed, all of this stuff is fairly easy to do on your own. Plus, for some, building computers and various projects like that is FUN! I know that I enjoy it very much. There's nothing like tweeking your own system. (And if you put together a box which doesn't work, you can always haul it into a repair place and have them make it go for about $20)
The final thing comes from Carlos Castaneda. .
Carlos was taught by his master to be a hunter before he was taken on to more advanced studies. A hunter always has more power than a normal man; he need not fear where regular people do, because no matter what happens, he knows he can always return to the land and live there with ease and grace.
If you are in the position to build your own computer and learn/exercise your skills, then you will become more powerful than the next guy who cannot do these things. --If you apply this practice to more aspects of life than just computers; if you use it not as an escape but rather as a means to building yourself, then you are not a geek; you are a more whole man.
-Fantastic Lad
Find a good computer retailer. They can sell you a complete system cheeper then the sum of the parts. This is because the margin on a system is less than the margin on all the parts purchased seperatly.
Oh yeh, don't skimp on the specs!!! Get good stuff
Seems to work now.
Never buy a barebone system from them or have them test equipment. Whoever does their installing doesn't know what the heck they're doing. All 3 barebone systems I bought from them had messed up cabling. Upside down floppy drive cable, incorrect connections from case to motherboard, etc. Also, they keep all the cool stuff that comes in the mobo box. I prefer to buy a motherboard bundle and everything else individually. Other than that assembly complaint, their service is awesome and their prices with shipping are hard to beat when building a system or even several systems. I only go to a local shop for urgent needs and pricewatch when ordering large quantities of expensive items (i.e. a dozen or so 120GB WDs with 8MB buffer).
I say visit you local computer show. You'll get better prices then you'd find on Pricewatch, and the ease of being able to return parts that need to be returned. But before you go, what you need to do it get an idea in your head what you want the computer for and how much you're willing to spend. And then make sure to be ready to pay cash. All the venders will knock some off for cash.
Here is a basic shopping list:
MOTHERBOARD (It can be anything from ASUS to PC-Chips, it all depends on what you want to spend.)
A lot of boards have the following on board, which you can choose to look for or expect to buy seperatly.
CPU <- Whether you want INTEL or AMD, you'll find that the latest and greatest have nice prices tags and if you want to save a littl eyou can get a LOT of power cheap.
MEMORY <- You should get what you can aford but if you're planning on running a M$ Win9x OS then limit yourself to 512 MB to be safe.
HARD DRIVE <- This is a great time to get a hard drive and while you're at it go ahead an dget as much as you can afford. With gigs less than a dollar each, I'm sure you can find something to fill up your drive with. Especially with M$ Bloatware(TM).
CD-ROM <- Do you want just the basics or how about a CD-RW or DVD both are about the same price.
FLOPPY <- Don't forget to get one, I did once and was kicking myself. Choose either a cheap 3½ or even better get yourself a zip drive.
CASE <- This is more of a personal choice. Get one you'll like; unless you want a micro ATX case that requires a extremly small form factor, most ATX cases will accept any motherboard. The only thing to really look for is at least a 300 WATT power supply.
KEYBOARD & MOUSE <- I have to say that this is were I like shows the best. You can litterally go around and test each keyboard before you decide to buy. Don't buy a keyboard because of name or looks alone. Try it out and make sure that it's comfortable for you. (And the Logotech Wireless Freedom Pro with it's Wireless keyboard and optical mouse is a nice extravegance.)
MONITOR <- Here is a case of what you plan to do with the computer. If you are using the computer to run office and surf the web, you'd like a small form factor, then by all means get a LCD Monitor. If you plan to do any gaming (LCD monitors don't refresh fast enoug) or cost is an object then you can get a 17" monitor for about $99. Also you might find it cheaper to actually to buy your monitor at your local Office Depot or similar, that way if a couple of months down the road you have a lovely shade of green going on you can take it in that day.
OS <- If you;ve got a nice size drive, I'd suggest dual booting. It's easy and it allows you to see the best of both worlds. But if you want to run the dark side, then XP is the way to go. I have to say (as one who wanted to hate it) that it has been an easily the most stable, troublefree OS to come from Redmond. For the other choices, look at Mandrake 8 (8.1 & 8.2 haven't impressed me too much) and Redhat 7.3, and be prepared to be impressed with SuSE 8. But you probably won't find too many problems with the hardware.
You will find that shows are a great place to save money, but realize that you'll need to know ahead of time roughly what you need. Make suree to get reciepts and find out what the exchage policy is.
Patrick Havens (Mr. 573333 to you.) Graphic Artist / Coder / Father / Journeler
After shopping at Fry's since the week the first store opened (Great job John and Randy), there is a reason they have grown to locally make every other chain use them as the benchmark. They are absolutely the best one stop tech shopping center, bar none.
... they don't pay engineers $100k/yr to man their isles ... as some mom and pop industry drop outs might suggest is the solution to customer care. Any serious Techie doesn't need/want their toy's marked up 100% for support ... most newbie public need it ... so Fry's has always walked an interesting balance that some wanabee techies find very frustrating. Even in most Fry's stores I have been able to ignore the sales trainies, and go straight to the dept manager to get solid technical suggestions and points (and I am a trained engineer with decades of systems integration experience). The tiered support team in the repair area of most stores is totally awesome - few mom and pop stores (supporting a limited selection of parts and technologies) have the breadth of experience as the Fry's team (which supports literally thousands of products that span nearly every consumer technology).
With their size and low cost does come a price
So - let the clueless wanabee's bash Fry's if they can - but I have yet to see any other store front that does a better job of selling the huge range of products while standing behind every one with their return policy. I can only suggest that techie wanabee's stick to their favorite mom and pop store where the huge cost of one-on-one sales support is buried in the markup of every sale.
Althought this seems to be very USA orientated (understandably) I've noticed a few requests for Australian vendors but none for UK vendors. My favourite at the moment is Dabs but can anyone recommend any others?
On the subject of whether a computer is worth building yourself, I'll admit my geekiness and say i actually enjoy putting together a computer, so it doesnt matter how long it takes. Plus you'll know it inside out if you ever need to fix it.
Andy
I first though this was high silliness. Ask a bunch of geeks about the computers they've recently built.
"And then I got this killer chassis with burnished chrome detailing, and I can't believe how cheap DDR RAM has become in the last couple of months. Time used to be..."etc.
I thought to myself, "Trolling for volume...and they posted it! - incredible."
But, then, you know, I actually had never heard of newegg (here I am in the sticks). Have you seen the chassis they have? And their prices!
grammar-lesson free since 1999. (rescinded - 2005)
I recommend building the PC yourself and I say this not just because it is "cool" but because of the experience. You learn so much by building computers no matter what kind or specifications. I have built several systems so far and don't think I am ever going to buy a complete system in the future.
:)
One thing that has to certainly be considered is the support. I am moving to about 2 hours away from where I live now and all of my family and even my girlfriend are staying here. When it was time for my girlfriend's folks to look into getting a new PC I didn't even think twice about building one for them. I went straight to Dell (yeah I know, no company is perfect) and ordered them one off there for a great price for what they do (Internet, Email, Word processing).
I didn't consider building them one due to the fact that I will be 2 hours away and the 1st day I am gone I can hear the phone ringing with something wrong with the computer like a cable unplugged. Dell has a full-featured support plan and I feel safe trusting that for them. So you really need to consider that issue.
About buying the parts, I like others will of course recommend a place like pricewatch.com except just making sure you watch those horrible shipping prices! Pricewatch has been improving their interface lately and now for most dealers include a total including shipping right on the search results page which makes it convient.
So my rambling aside, again I recommend building your PC if you are capable and will be around to tend to any problems with it (no systems are perfect).
-Scott
Asking a question like this on ./??
Now you're doomed to spend the next three days slogging through thousands of pieces of friendly advice. Methiks you'd have been better off just doing the research yourself.
And here I am reading along when I should be sleeping. hehehe...
"Michael, I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing - and it was everything that I thought it could be."
i don't think this has been mentioned yet.
my personal favorite sight is
http://www.jazztechnology.com
it's definately worth checking out.i only looked at memory, but micron PC2100 256MB is:
$40.00 at Jazz Technology
$85.15 at MWave.com
$45.00 --generic memory, not micron, at newegg.com
i've been satisfied with other jazztechnology prices as well, and the sight has a very easy interface.
another sight worth a look is http://www.micropro.com,
but if you are buying individual parts, i'd go with jazz technology
I'm using Kelkoo (UK version) to find computer parts and compare prices between european merchants. :-)
If it can help anyone
If you build your own machine, and something breaks, how will you be able to troubleshoot the problem? If you only have one machine and no spare parts, you can't swap out the memory to see if that's what's flaky, or whatever.
Big names like Dell aren't the answer either, as in my experience (admin over 300 dells among others) they just throw whatever they can find into the box. You can get better components elsewhere.
Your best bet, IMO is a whitebox (beige box?) vendor who is willing to work with you to get the exact parts you want and then stand behind it with a basic warranty.
Of course, I have 3 machines, all hand built. It all depends on how good you are with pc hardware (did you build 2 machines or 2000?) and how much is your time worth to you. I value learning (read breaking things and fixing them) higher than most people do, so I don't tend to choose the path of least resistance. YMMV
this sig has been rated E for Everyone.
I ahve made myself several PCs in the past 5 years. Although pound for pound buying a complete PC from scratch is not as good as say getting one from dell, if you progressivly cycle through the components buy buying the components you want now for your current PC and moving your old componets down to your secondary PCs you will find that you can keep up a relativly good PC for a little monthly cost. My buying habbits seem to indicate that I buy something new every 6 months, eg a graphics card or new hard disk and every so often a new MB/CPU. If I get a new sound card, then the old sound card gets relegated to my second best PC and the second best PCs sound card etc, etc (I have 3 PCs at home) The only problem with this is that you will need to have use of several PCs, for me it is a games PC (Fast snazzy sound cards etc) a server, and one for my girlfriend. Any componets that drop out of the bottom of the cycle get put into simple PCs for the rest of my family. Unfortunately I still have to do tech support for them regardless if they have bought a new PC or not, so I dont mind giving them a simple PC out my spares. The other side to the coin to go get a newe PC is that you get the software bundled with the PC, this can mean very good value especially if you get the full MS suite of Windows and Orrifice, which is very expensive to buy separately, and with the activation stuff it is not worth buying 'privately' anyway (whether it is *worth* buying at all is another matter)
I don't know why anyone would read this many comments, but if you've just got one computer and a limited cashflow than typically homebuilding works best, since all you need is the initial investment and after that you can just update part by part as your individual components run their course.
And still we have warranty for each single detail so we don't suffer from occasional accidents with hardware.
And yes, we assemble our production web and DB servers ourselves too. And no problems yet.
Well everyone else is suggesting stuff so I figure I will too. I'm looking to buy a PC in the UK sometime soon and for the past couple of months I've kept my eye on the prices. Here's my contribution:
Dabs.com
Tried and trusted. I've bought plenty of stuff from these guys in the past with 100% satisfaction. Their site is a little annoying but they have the widest selection of stock by far. Their prices are very good if not the best. Product information (when available) is not terribly informative so you should know what you're looking for before you arrive.
Aria.co.uk
Only bought a couple of things from these people and had no problems. Less stock than dabs but their prices are good. Specifically, they've got the best prices on Athlon XPs (1800 - 2100). And their CPU coolers & PSUs are cheap too. Product info on this site is poor and the design isn't much better.
Overclockers.co.uk
Bought one thing from here and again no problems. Not a great deal of stock but the stuff they do have is top notch (in most cases). Their prices are slightly off-par, however they've currently got the best price on some CDRWs, HDDs and sound cards. Good product info available. These guys know their stuff. Their site design leaves to be desired.
Overclock.co.uk
Not bought anything from here yet. Their product info is good but have pretty limited stock, mainly geared towards.. well.. you guessed it.. overclocking. Some of their prices are good while others are quite off-par. Their site is navigable but heavily image-laden.
Overclockingstore.co.uk
Not bought anything from here yet. Their prices are reasonable but I've not found anything I wanted cheaper here. A large selection of overclocking stuff available and a pretty poor selection of regular components. Good looking site.
Tekheads.co.uk
Bought stuff from here without any problems. Their site is good and prices vary. Mostly reasonable and sometimes better than dabs. They've currently got best prices on sound cards. Product info available is ok.
Kustom.co.uk
Nasty site but they have a selection of stuff you'll have a hard time finding elsewhere. Mainly oriented towards cases and accessories. Bought a couple of things from these guys, again, without any problems.
Crucial.com/uk
OK, this isn't a retail site, but Crucial sell their RAM online at price up to £30 cheaper than elsewhere. If you're looking for ECC Registered 512MB PC2100 DDR chips like me, then you'll appreciate the £119.69 price tag.
CCLComputers.co.uk
Not bought anything from here yet but I certainly plan to. Simplistic site but very navigable. A good selection of stock and they've got the best prices on some CDRWs, AIW Radeons and the sweet sweet Iiyama Pro 452.
EBuyer.com
Not bought anything from here either. Not too keen on their site but they're one of the few who offer Antec PSUs, with a reasonable price too.
Scan.co.uk
Found this thanks to other posts in this discussion. Have to say I'm very impressed. A tasteful cut-to-the-chase design with decent product information. I was surprised to see just how wide a selection of stock they have. Not as large as dabs but they stock some decent stuff. I was surprised to find the dual Athlon Gigabyte mobo on there. Their selection of hard drives leaves to be desired but the rest is OK. Best prices on Enermax PSUs.
There are other sites out there too, such as Simply.co.uk, Action.com, Globaldirect.co.uk, Dcsplc.co.uk, Stuff-uk.net, Insight.com and Jungle.com but I've yet to be impressed. In particular, Jungle.com is probably worth avoiding. I've heard some horror stories.
So to wrap things up I'd have to say that if you can build your own PC it's definately worth doing so. The pre-built systems you can get may be cheaper and may have an amazing "2GHz P4, 60GB HDD DVD, Scanner etc.. etc..", but on the inside the components will be from Happy Shopper or Value Land and you'll get about as much performance out of your system as a frightened donkey.
However, if you're going to build your own PC you need to know exactly which components you need/want beforehand. These sites will have the stock you want but in most cases won't give you accurate or useful product information. It's a lengthy process but it's worth consulting newsgroups and/or online reviews. Storagereview.com, for example, has a leaderboard where you can get up to date on the decent and not-so-decent hard drives.
There are countless hardware review sites out there. It's worth searching for the product comparisons. Tomshardware.com and Anandtech.com are popular sites worth a look.
Good luck!
My life is one big siesta in which I'm dreaming I wished my life was one big siesta.
heres a couple places that i really like
j0sh
pixelusa.com is an excellent place for all your hardware needs, and well priced too. If you are in the bay area, specifically San Jose, they are on bascom near 280.Otherwise, they ship, quite reasonably I believe. Check em out!
I've bought a couple motherboards, an AMD processor and a case from them and was very happy with the prices and had no problems with the parts.
My MB fried after a year but that was a problem with the case (which I bought at Fry's Electronics) design. The CD-Rom had to stick out a bit or it smashed into the MB. Bumped it one too many times and it shorted the MB. That's when I bought the new case and MB from Aberdeen. Both are great.
Fry's Electronics is okay but I shop with extreme caution.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
I put together this old computer about three years ago, all from online orders. Of course, that was during the christmas season when all the merchants were offering free shipping.
Here are my experiences. Please not that many of these stores are under new ownership or defunct.
TC Computers: Top Notch. Great Selection, Competitive pricing, and sent me a free heat sink and fan when I forgot to order one with my OEM CPU.
Outpost: Strangely, they had the best hard drive prices. Now owned by Fry's
NECX: Now owned by Gateway. They had good selection and very good choices.
Egghead: A nightmare. They sent me a monitor with a cracked case. I returned it.
If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably buy everything from TC Computers, since I had the best experience with them, and they are affiliated with Insight, which is a pretty trustworthy company.
Keep in mind that a lot of resellers are just middlemen for a nameless wholesaler, who actually is responsible for fulfilling the order.
Spending a couple of extra bucks is worth it if it gives you peace of mind.
Also, now that free shipping days are over, I would be more likely to do business with a local computer specialty store.
evanchik.net
... is to go to one of the small local companies and buy the bits there. Get to know the techies at the local computer shop - they'll tell you what they've got that's a good buy, and what to avoid. Plus, you get to try out all sorts of goodies before buying them.
I've had great service from them, their prices are much better than the high street, and they tend to stock good quality components.
They also test their stock extensively, and know exactly what works best with what.
Based on where you are living this can also have a tax issue. In most counties in Europe you can get some money back from the taxes office. Most of the times there are two limitations: ;-)
- Your employer should agree that you need a pc at home. - You need to buy a pc, not parts. A whole pc with everything you dream of will work. If you buy the same thing for less money in parts, you're screwed
The site where: "I'm right, as long as you ignore the things that prove me wrong", became a valid method of debate.
The good prices aren't at the expense of service - I've never had a late or incomplete delivery yet.
My only minor proviso is that Aria tends to be low on stocks of memory; I buy it from source via Crucial Europe instead, who are also very reliable.
Personally I'm picky about my hardware. Some of it, just look up stats on-line, no problem. things like mobo's and chips are usually fine if bought NEW from anyone.
I recomend you talk to them a bit first, call back, if you get treated like a number, or shrugged off, then expect that on tech support.
Warrantys are useless if you don't do your homework first. I have mobos that I cant get replaced because , even coming DOA, the company was pretty much unavailible for the first 30 days. Busy lines, closed, crappy east coast hours for us west coast buyers, etc. call their tech support and ask em a qustion or atleast see how long it takes to get through.
but then again, I even find myself getting stuff locally. the prices may not be all that hot, but atleast I can go and plop the dead guts down on a physical desk and not a UPS shipping office.
thats my 2 cents.
THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!!!! eventually.
I've used a few of the UK online stores (dabs.com, ebuyer.com, overclockers.co.uk and scan.co.uk), and also check other sites for prices (aria, insight and simply) and have found ebuyer to the cheapest, with good service. My one word of warning is to only order stuff that's in stock. Dabs have very good service, but you pay extra for it, overclockers are too small to give you good bargains, and aria and insight don't have a good enough range of stock. Simply have to be the worst by far. I work for Waltham Forest council and as Simply is in the borough some stupid sod has decided to let Simply now be the sole supplier of all the council's PCs. Previously we had a mixture of Simply, Compaq and Dell, and the Simply machines cause no end of hassle. They're badly built with crap components, and are forever crashing. I was also in the Trading Standards department recently and they say they get quite a few calls from consumers who have had problems returning faulty items to Simply. mark.
mark.
like shopsmart for pc parts...
www.pcindex.co.uk
This is probably going to be considered offtopic, and possibly it will even be redundant, for lack of time to read everything posted here so far ; I would however like to point out that the general geek's point of view over here in France is that it is the ultimate loser's act to even think about buying a PC ready-made in a superstore or from a constructor. IT-knowledgeable people here always get their stuff from a well-renowned local store, where they can customize at will, and get proximity service they can count on afterwards. Then, little upgrades are often made with bits and pieces bought at bargain prices off the Net, and bigger upgrades happen at the elected shop. That's just my view anyway...
Well, I started out working in a computer store buying and selling used computer equipment and building new systems to spec. It seems like when you get 10 techs in a room, you get 11 opinions (With some exceptions - I don't know of anyone who loves, say, Packard Bell systems. That's a near consensus). I have three PCs here that I built on my own - two from brand new parts, and one from cannibalized used parts. I have another PC in the other office which was one of those TigerDirect barebones systems.
First, the absolute best thing you can do if money is not the #1 factor in your decision is build your own. It's simply the most rewarding, especially if you can buy the parts locally.
The first step is to use the web and sites like Anandtech to research what the best parts are, and then scale that against the price to find something you can live with. I have heard opinions from experienced techs that completely contradict each other. This may be a result of parts not working well in combination with some parts but quite well with others, or something as basic as the source of the parts being what I suppose you'd call "gray market" (usually from Asian countries - not to say that just because it comes from Asia, it's garbage, but if you find some questionable parts, they probably came over on a boat with glow in the dark Jesuses for your dashboard). The parts could be counterfeit altogether, or they could be remanufactured parts, or "rejected" surplus from a reputable manufacturer, as someone mentioned in regard to memory. Or, they could have "fallen off a truck", either figuratively or literally.
This is why I try to stick with name brand parts from reputable dealers.
There is no substitute for lab tests and benchmarks. When the results of these tests match the general opinion of experienced techs, or even empirical raves from users of a particular component, that's usually a good sign that the part is worth buying.
Subjective, short reviews in mass-market magazines and web sites are next to useless, and often completely contradictory. Find reviews of products which have been rigorously tested by professionals in a lab with reliable techniques. Some magazines and web sites will hire ANYONE to do product reviews, and some people are impressed by any BRIGHT SHINY OBJECT.
This takes time, but it is well worth it. Research each and every part, and then go to the newsgroup archives to see what people are saying empirically. Few products come unanimously recommended, but you can find a general "tilt" toward a product or brand being good or bad. I generally spend about 20 hours total researching all the parts for a new PC, since I only build one for myself on average every 30 months or so and have to research what's come on the market since. Spread it out over a week and you'll be fine. Make sure to look for interoperability issues as well as compatibility with whatever OS you want to use.
It is not always worthwhile to buy from the cheapest vendor. I figure for most things it is worth paying 10%-15% more locally for a product if I can easily return it if defective. Dealing with RMA processes is time consuming and can be expensive. That being said, I haven't found a decent local vendor here in Tucson yet, so I've been doing most of my ordering online.
As for barebones kits and "white box" machines, I think you can make the broad statement that, oftentimes you get one of these cheap systems that works flawlessly, and sometimes you don't. I think you take that risk with cheap parts, but sometimes you win on the gamble. I have a machine here running Mandrake 8.1 that hasn't hiccupped at all, and that's one of those Tiger Direct barebones kits. Then there is my homegrown Athlon system built with high quality parts which is rock-stable. But then my girlfriend has one of the TigerDirect barebones kits that has had a power supply die, and intermittent instability. So you roll the dice, but that's not saying you'll always lose. No vendor likes returns so if you can find someone locally that builds entire LANs for government agencies using the same combination of parts over and over, and they're reliable, go for it. When you order online, you really don't know what you're getting. Ear to the pavement helps, and Usenet is always your friend.
Brands. Everyone has brand loyalties. Some people have knowledge that is out of date. I used to service Compaqs and Dell Optiplexes in the mid to late 1990s, and from my standpoint, they were superb machines, well designed and easy to swap parts in and out of (Could swap a whole motherboard in one of the Compaq systems - this was when they were heavy and built like tanks - in under 2 minutes). We sold some used Compaqs which were ancient and still running like clockwork. I've heard that this has changed, but I have no direct experience with it. I've heard contradictory things about Compaqs, HPs, and Dells, from people saying they'd *only* use them in production and people who say they'd *never* use them in production.
Likewise I have had absolutely miserable experiences with Maxtor hard drives. Every single Maxtor I ever owned - about 3, have died within 3 years. Yet I have friends online who have run them for years without incident.
Conversely, Western Digital drives have served me well - I still have a (200?) MB Western Digital Hard drive that I rsn a BBS off of in 1992 and 1993 that still works like the day I bought it. I've encountered very opinionated people who consider Western Digital drives "overpriced crap" to quote a close friend.
I like Asus motherboards. I used to sell computers built with them and have 2 PCs here that I've built with Asus boards, and they have been perhaps the most reliable thing in each system. Some people swear by other brands - again, the best thing to do is read detailed reviews and lab tests. Asus boards are generally reviewed and regarded well but I'm sure there's someone reading this who hates them.
Do the research, take the risk (you always do), and build your own. It is a rewarding experience that you will keep on feeling good about every time you sit down at your PC. And what you learn may help you avoid costly labor fees for repair down the road; knowing how to build and service PCs is a valuable skill that pays off time and time again, and you may even have some private opportunities to make some cash or make someone's day by helping them out down the road, with what you've learned.
It's a beautiful thing, considering what you can do with a computer, and the art of building and maintaining PCs is not treated with the respect that it should be.
... unless you want to do it for the experience of building a PC as an end in itself.
If you want a computer to *use*, as opposed to spending you time tweaking and fixing and being without a PC when you have problems, then you should buy one from a reputable PC manufacturer.
I have built my own PC. I'm not some dork who knows nothing about computers or electronics, I have a degree in Electronic Systems Engineering and 2 years of commercial expereince designing electronic systems from the silicon right up to the system level.
I ended up with a PC that was unstable. The problem I found was that, although each component I bought came with a warranty, there was no *system level* support -- the component manufacturers blamed each other -- and the store I bought the stuff from didn't want to know me once I had paid the money and walked out the door.
What I wanted was a reliable, high spec machine, at low cost. What I got was a turkey. You get what you pay for. If you want to tinker and can live with days or weeks or months of being without your PC as you tinker, or get someone else to, or try to convince some hardware manufacturer to give you a replacement part, then go ahead and self-build -- it will be cheaper. If you want a system to use and you want to rely on it, go to someone like Dell (they let you spec out your machine online to your own tastes).
Most important lesson I've learned: Buy a decent warranty. It won't be the cheapest option, but it will be the best.
In the end I went to Dell and bought a top-end workstation with a 3 year on-site next day warranty. I've been really happy with that bought system, and am secure in the knowledge that, should it fail, I can get a Dell guy out the next day to fix it.
Another option would be find a *really good* small company that will build your machine to spec, and who will offer you a decent support contract. Then trust what they recommend to you. But finding said company won't be easy.
"The noble art of losing face will one day save the human race"---Hans Blix
... whenever you try a search from the box on the home page it always ends up in the AMD section with "No results"? Maybe it's just me but I ALWAYS have to go through the product list page and choose the sort of thing I want first!
:-)
It's pretty anoying as their site can get slow at times, so the less pages I have to visit the better. I've found their service to be great most of the time (though they do seem to send huge boxes with about 100 times as much padding as is really necessary, it seems to me
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
I have been using these guys for 3 years. Good prices and you can call them and place orders over the phone!
http://www.compuplus.com
cool, I just built myself a similar system: (in canadian dollars, store bought (Ottawa region))
...
AMD Athlon XP PR1800+ retail:160$
Asus A7N266-VM (nForce chipset, onboard LAN/sound/video) retail: 160$
2 x Azenram 256Meg DDR PC2100 retail: 90$
Maxtor D740X 7200RPM 80Gig OEM: 160$
cheap minitower case w/ 145w PS to mod: 20$ (really!)
Total: 590$ plus freakin tax (15%) = 678$CDN !!
on board video is a GeForce 2 MX equivalent
on board sound has a Dolby digital decoder (w/ spdif and optical output, max of 6 usb 1.1)
Don't need a monitor/keyboard/mouse, I use a KVM switch. hehe. However, I do plan to mod the system
buy a prebuilt. I am preparing to build a machine now myself, but it has so many special requirements I just can't find a prebuilt to match my specs, so I'll build it and take on the problems others have mentioned in order to get exactly what I want. I also expect it will cost more not less to do this.
Almost any machine for the home can be purchased cheaper prebuilt, I find the real cost savings of building your own is in the server area.
Gizmos Gagets For Ninjas
Do it for the experiance.
Odds are against you saving enough money to really make cost the deciding factor.
As a tech in computers with 26 years experiance I can guarentee problems.
No matter how many reviews you read, no matter how many opinions you get, even if you build a machine with identical brand and model components as your trusted buddy next door... things change.
Even the best of companies have bad production runs from time to time.
Components have minor revisions even during a production run.
The result is a special kind of chaos that must be experianced to be appreciated.
Have fun
Expect problems
http://www.spartantech.com
They have good contacts and reps that work for you. I also like them because they are close. I can pay for ground shipping and get it the next day.
For me the issue is what video card to get, and what CD-RW, and DID drive? I want to buy a RH 7.3 compatible machine to install linux on.
Rich...
Ignore Alien Orders
For me the issue is what video card to get, and what CD-RW, and DVD drive? I want to buy a RH 7.3 compatible machine to install linux on. Rich...
Ignore Alien Orders
It's been a few years since I last built a computer, but JDR was always a good place for computer parts (and general electronics as well). It sells mostly no-name made-in-Taiwan parts for a little higher price than you'd expect, but they've got a lab that actually builds up computers and verifies sample parts work before they market them - and their tech support is the best I've ever dealt with.
at least not from scratch. You'll find you'll probably save yourself a lot of frustration by buying a barebones system (case, power supply, motherboard, and CPU), and going from there. I did a build it from scratch earlier this year and it was a nightmare. The place where the heatsink clips onto the CPU socket broke off, and I had to get a replacement motherboard. On top of which, the pieces came at different times, and in the end, I didn't really save any money.
On the other hand, for $200 or so, I bought and Athlon 1700 on e-bay, with motherboard, case, power supply, CPU w/fan, etc). I then bought a hard drive and memory, and used an existing DVD drive (who needs a floppy these days?). It was a fourth computer that plugged into a KVM switch, so that was pretty much all I needed.
For a total of about $400, I had an Athlon 1700 that works quite well. I consider that a good bargain, and on the day the machine arrived, in less than an hour, I had it up and running. Painless.
Just my personal experience.
Buy Canadian!!! with the exchange rate (to the US$) we have the best prices in North Amercia. that Newegg site has a 256 meg stick of DDR ram for around $40US, www1.oemexpress.com has it for $50CAN wich works out to around $25US! Now I just did a major rehaul of my PC last november, top of the line everything (except video card, too expencive for a university student) and it only set me back about $500CAN for a new MB, AMD chip, 512meg DDR ram, and a $150 video card.
I dont know what their international shipping is like, but for those kinds of deals it could still be extravagent and you would save money.
And its worth having a look at uk.comp.vendors to see some more opinions.
http://www.jncs.com
They have the highest quality of hardware that I've found and they do motherboard bundles. (Boards + memmory.) They sell custom made machines as well. And like our friends at Penguin Computing, they test all the hardware before they send it to you. So, you are pretty much guarenteed working hardware when you receive it.
It doesn't matter if you build or buy, they all suck and are all problematic.
For myself...
I try to buy everything from Buy.com I can to take of advantage of their free shipping. (eg: case, ram, power supply, optical mouse, etc.)
Then whatever they don't have available, I will buy through Newegg. (Asus/Soyo Dragon Plus/etc)
Also, Shopping.yahoo.com is a wonderful site. Kinda of like Pricewatch.com, but all the stores can use your yahoo account to bill you. Convenient as hell.
For friends/work...
I recommend going with a cheap dell system. no hassles, no worries. If the person has a really tight budget, I may try and put together a machine from spare parts.
Some side notes:
Buy.com has great service. I sometimes receive my stuff the next day. Bravo!
NewEgg OTOH, takes a few days before they even ship. Then slap on another week. bleh. (I'm in NYC)
Amazon is somewhere between the two.
As far as I have seen, the best prices on computer hardware can be found at computer fairs. Here in Connecticut, the place to go is Cogan Fairs http://www.coganfairs.com A google search should locate some computer fairs near you. The reason I recomend the fairs is that many of the companies that work the fairs have no show room thus little overhead and can afford to sell at a great price. Savings can be huge, pc 133 ram for example, over $125 at CompUSA for 512Mb is typicaly $50 at the computer fairs. My only caution is that many vendors are selling outdated parts. If you're in the market for a new motherboard or the latest video card, do your research and come with a list of what you need with detailed descriptions and full part numbers. As the vendors are typically not local businesses, returns of defective parts is a bit difficult and time consuming, but the fair operators do a great job assuring that the vendors are honest and any vendor that has violated their policies won't be allowed back. Ernie
http://www.provantage.com has always been pretty good. Prices are low and support is high. What else can you ask for?
While this has been commented to death already, one thing you might want to watch out for is the location of any mail order houses. On price watch there may be a 2 dollar difference between numbers three and four, but if one is in 'zone 1' and the other in 'zone 4' (to use UPS speak, must most shipping companies have 'zone rates' in one form or another) the shipping charges can be quite different for the same level of service.
Another shipping consideration is damages. I ordered several items from a website based out of Chigago and it went through a certain hub of a certain carriers operation and was consistantly damaged. While the carrier paid for it, as it was packaged properly, it was a pain in the butt. I started ordering from a place that came from a different geographic direction and no problems whatsoever.
The good one:
http://www.mwave.com
-> very efficient service
-> trustworthy
The bad one:
http://www.simplybargains.com
-> you will pay for something and you will get something else. And when you send it back, you will again receive something that is rotten.
This is absolutely ridiculous. Anyone who purports to be able to build a PC from scratch should also be able to find the parts to do so at a reasonable price. Quit asking retarded questions.
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
Building a computer really depends on if you enjoy learning about computers or not. There is a large learning curve that you will go through as you develop your system.
When I build my computer about six months back, I know that I looked at each componant seperately.
Did I want an AMD or Intel processor? Once I determined that how fast of a processor did I need? Then I had to determine what motherboard would work with my processor and was the best price/quality ratio.
Then I had to determine which cooling fan would fit on my processor. Also, what kind of fan did I want? Really quiet? Which one offered the best value?
In determining the motherboard, I had to learn about different types of RAM and their speed. How much RAM did I need? How many bays did I want the motherboard to have in case I wanted to upgrade? Did I want onboard sound support? Video?
Then I had to determine the power supply. What wattage did I need for my motherboard? How much extra would I need for growth in the future? I wanted a cheap one, was Canada's version of the UL a sufficient standard?
Then I had to determine what case I wanted. A cheap or or an expensive one. What size case fit my motherboard? How many bays did I want? Do I need? Would my powersupply fit in securely?
Once I had my case, I had to determine what kind of cooling system I need. A fan in the front? A fan in the back? Both? What size fan should I buy? Does brand matter?
And I still don't have a modem, soundcard, videocard, hard drive, floppy drive, cd/dvd ROM drive, monitor, printer, OS, keyboard, mouse, or speakers. Each of these things has its own trade offs as well that must be carefully thought through.
The benefit of rolling your own computer is that you get to really understand how to put the thing together in the process. It becomes much less of a black box.
However, I don't think you save much money if you are not going to put together a top of the line system. The cost of components plus shipping for my 1.2GHZ machine will probably run you around $500 - $600 dollars plus a heavy time investement. You can probably do better on a Best Buy clearance machine. If you are looking to do a 2.1GHZ thing, you will probably save money builing your own.
However, if you want to LEARN, think of building the computer as an investment. Plus the TCO of a computer you build will be cheaper since your computer is UPGRADEABLE.
If you do go the build a computer route, I would hand around sites like DealUniversity.com which find cheap componants. If you can be a little slow in building the computer you can save a lot of money.
When I say look at auctions, I don't mean e-bay. Most of the stuff I have seen at e-bay is WAY overpriced. If you look long enough there you may find something though.
When I say auctions, I mean look at companies that went out of business. With all the telecommunications companies that are on the rocks (or under-water already), as well as some of the last dot-com companies dying out, you can find a lot of good deals. It is just a matter of looking hard enough. Especially if you have any contacts in the industries, you can get some very nice deals.
--David
I've bought from Googlegear (no relation to the search engine as far as I can tell). They've got pretty good prices and I haven't had a single problem with them yet. What originally attracted me there was free 2nd day fedex shipping on an item I wanted. I've bought memory from them since then (again, free 2nd day fedex shipping). They had my order mailed out the day I placed it with the dvd drive, and the day after with the memory. I'm definitely going to check there first the next time I need some hardware.
:P
:( I've since formatted and made it a linux/XP machine for gaming purposes). As it turns out, the memory was bad. I tried contacting customer support (they had removed the number from their web page!! Luckily I had it written down) and wasn't able to talk with anyone. I wrote them 2 emails asking for support and only received a reply after 2 weeks had gone by (the guy suggested I had a boot sector virus and suggested formatting the hard-drive, though in the email I had mentioned already formatting the hard-drive several times), of course this email arrived after the problem was fixed. I had also written to their returns/refunds division saying my memory was bad and I wanted to take advantage of the 2-year warranty on the memory. For me to do so, it turns out, I would have to ship the entire system back to them. IOW, pay $50+ and wait a couple of weeks for it to get there and back. Or I could just pay $80 for new memory. I bought new memory... from Googlegear.
On the other hand, my friend bought a computer from them before all this happened and hasn't had a single problem with his yet.
I've also bought from McGlen Microsystems. This one is iffy. Originally I was going to buy a cpu, motherboard, and memory for them (they do 24-hour burn-in tests for you), but then I found out they offered a bare-bones system (everything but an OS and a harddrive). When I went back the next time to actually place my order, they offered a complete system so I just purchased that. Got my computer, and right away I was missing the mouse they were supposed to have sent me. Yeah, it's just a $15 mouse, but it was the principle. I wrote them an email and then called the next day (after getting no reply). I sat on the phone for at least 2 hours on hold. They have some system where if you're on hold long enough, they simply disconnect you! I tried again the next day, same thing. I wrote them a second email at the end of the week, and a third at the end of the next week--no reply. Finally I received a message on my voicemail at work asking me to call back and ask for a specific person. I did so and the person who had answered the phone (it sounded like they were *really* busy) said this woman would call me back in an hour. Hours later, no call. What gets me about the message they left is that I specifically said I left work at 4pm EST, and they called after 5pm
That was the first problem. The second problem came when my computer started doing funny things and somehow the registry got corrupted (yes, a WinXP machine
So McGlen was alright, until I actually needed them to support their product, and that's when the real problems started.
This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
I'll just throw this into the bag. I like TCComputers (http://www.tccomputers.com) very much. When I do my research it doesn't always end up that they have the best prices, but I can say that I've developed a relationship with them. I keep buying parts from them, and they keep delivering. I haven't been disappointed yet with a bad part or a damaged delivery.
Let me offer a tip here for those of you who will be building your PCs for the first time.
Never buy generic memory. Ever.
Stick to trusted name brands like Kingston, Crucial, Corsair, or whatever your brand of choice may be. I haven't found a "best breed" memory manufacturer out there yet, but using name brands lately has certainly reduced my costs both at home and at work (I build all the PCs and servers we use at our 100 person company).
Yeah, I know, the "real" name brand memory costs 10%-50% more depending on the name and the capacity. Just pay it. It's better than buying new memory later to replace bad chips, and dealing with downtime.
Generic memory is the devil. Our older of PCs at work here are using standard, off the shelf kinds of generic memory, no names on the chips. It tends to work for between 3 months and 2 years... at which time you begin getting segfaults, kernel panics, BSODs, and random application problems on all platforms.
If you buy name brand... YMMV but I've had much better luck. I've yet to have a single name brand memory chip fail and some of them here are as old as five years.
Don't skimp prices on memory or motherboard... and for the love of god please use a static guard when installing any of the memory. A static discharge you can't even feel is more than enough to shorten a memory module's lifespan by half.
Hell is being intelligent in a world full of idiots.
I had a friend once who loved British motorcycles. He had some Nortons and Triumphs. British bikes were at that time notorious for requiring constant maintenence (they may still be). His feeling was that British bikes are great, for people who enjoy fixing bikes. For anyone else, Japanese. Best bang for the buck, totally reliable, just like cars. Its the same way with boxes as with bikes.
I build all my own systems, but when others ask me for a recommendation, I usually tell them to buy Dell. Because if they need to ask me to recommend an overall system, they don't have sufficient interest to deal with the headaches of rolling your own. And there are headaches.
In my experience, getting the right parts together and installed is easy. Its getting them all to play nice afterwards that is the challenge. To get really intimate with your OS, install some cutting edge hardware. You will learn things about Windows and Linux that Bill and Linus do not know.
There is also a middle way. Many of your local strip mall OEM type places will build a box for you, more or less to your specifications. Depending on the OS you want, they may be able to set it up and test it as well. That can eliminate some of the more interesting issues you run into with self-assembly.
Last, I suggest using a local retailer over online suppliers. You can build a relationship, they remember your name, returns are simple and when you get a fever for a certain part, you can have it in hours rather than days.
I've found that Mushkin is a great place to get high-quality memory at a good price. They shipped quickly and have the whole range of speeds & qualities.
Does anyone shop online for computers in ASIA? Specifically Hong Kong? I've been to Sham Shui Po (Golden Arcade) quite a few times, and this beats the heck out of shopping online. Imagine two floors filled with every single peripheral that you want.
There prices are about 10% higher than those found on pricewatch, however no shipping or tax.
I was wondering though, does anyone shop online in Asia, or do they just go to their local retailer?
As a component supplier they're just as bad. I've had DOA printers, harddrives and a CPU. Needless to say, they're no longer a supplier to my company.
IMO, you are unlikely to see any monetary savings by building your own PC, assuming the parts used are of a comparable quality. You might be able to get the total cost marginally lower if you don't have to buy Windows (you already have a legal license for your chosen OS, you don't mind using an illegal copy of Windows, etc...). But, even if you can get together the hardware for a little bit less than what you could buy the ready-made system for, after adding in a license for Windows your cost savings are out the window.
When I assemble my own, I typically spend a lot of time researching and deciding which internal components to use. Once that is done, due to budget constraints I usually either use Linux or an unlicensed copy of Windows for the OS, and I always end up skimping on the case. To me, the quality of the case heavily influences my feeling/opinion about the whole compiuter, and invariably my home-built systems have cases that are far, far inferior to the cases used on HPs, Dells, IBMs, etc.. I don't remember the OEM vendor (Palo Alto, maybe), but a few months ago I found the OEM that produces Dell's Dimension 4100 & Micron's cases. I like the cases a lot, and wanted to get one. But, at about $100, I ended up instead going to a computer show and buying a halfway-decent (but only halfway-decent) case for about $50.
As for online vendors: When I researched all of my parts, I ended up getting everything except RAM from NewEgg. The apparent consensus from the newsgroups was that they provided good service, they had good prices, and a good selection of the parts I was interested in. They even had a case, from some company I'd never heard of, that looked and sounded good, and was cheap. Well, the parts took a while to arrive, but I was very impatient at the time. It wasn't an excessive delay, I just wanted my parts overnight, but only wanted to pay for ground shipping. Not their fault.
When the parts did show up, the case, obviously a cheap case, was damaged. NewEgg said they'd swap it out - send the old case back and they'd credit us. When a new shipment of the case arrived, we could re-order and they'd send the replacement. I spoke with at least 3 different reps, and each insisted that they could only reimburse me a maximum of $10 for the return shipping. I was alittle annoyed about that, as I spent a long time trying to get the shipping down, and the cheapest I could find was $20.
The strange thing is, a few weeks later I received a check from them for the full amount. They told me they wouldn't do it, I mentioned that in the newsgroup, and then they went and did everything I wanted them to anyway. (I did go back to the newsgroup and publicize that fact.)
They never received any more of the case I wanted, so I ended up with the computer show case. NewEgg was good, but they tried to make me think they weren't on the phone. It was weird.
you don't have to pay the MS tax. I recommend MWave. I purchased components from them for my new system and they were excellent. Also, eBay is a great place to find hard drives and SCSI cards.
Sapere Aude - Homer
http://www.bestbuy.com/Detail.asp?m=488&cat=490&sc at=491&e=11120986
vpr Matrix(TM) Desktop with Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 2.2GHz
Model: 2250
$1,299.99
PRODUCT FEATURES
Intel® Pentium® 4 processor 2.2GHz with 400MHz system bus
512MB 266MHz DDR SDRAM, 2 total DIMM slots upgradable to 1.0GB
Western Digital 120.0GB (7200 rpm) hard drive
16x maximum speed DVD-ROM (40x maximum speed CD-ROM)
32x12x40 CD-RW drive
nVidia GeForce4 MX-440 64MB DDR graphics card
Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 audio card
10/100 integrated network interface card
V.92 high-speed modem; see more features
3 IEEE 1394 ports allow for digital video transfer in real time, plus 6 USB ports
Windows XP Home Edition operating system preinstalled
Intel, Pentium, Celeron, Intel Inside, and the Intel Inside logo are trademarks or registered trademarks of Intel Corporation or its subsidiaries in the United States and other countries.
EXPANDED DESCRIPTION
More exciting vpr Matrix features:
ATX motherboard with 1 AGP and 6 PCI slots
Mid-tower chassis with two 3.5" and three 5.25" external drive bays
6 USB ports (2 front, 4 back)
1 parallel port
300-watt power supply
Logitech optical scrolling mouse
Top-quality engineering and reliability
Software package featuring Microsoft Works 6.0 and CyberLink PowerDVD
Unfortunately canadacomputers has no online ordering system, doesn't take credit cards over the phone. You can be damned if I'm going to keep $600 in cash on me to do a COD!
Ill second that. I built my first system last year, and I tried to find the cheapest parts. I ended up buying another case and MB becasue the cheap ones I got were crap.
The MB (a PC Chips board) caused me to loose my data because it would detect the size of the HD differently each time you booted. Cost: 65 + SH.
The case had problems with air flow and caused the system to constantly over heat. Cost: 40 + SH.
So altogether, I lost more than $100 dollars than I had to, not including shipping and my time.
Also read reviews on the parts before you buy the more expensive parts (MB, Vid card, etc). There are way to many pieces of crap out there.
If you are looking for a complete system (Computer, Monitor, Printer) then buying a Compaq, HP, or Dell would be the easiest way to go.
I just purchased a new system but I already had the monitor and printer. I also wanted a system specific to my needs. I don't play a lot of games so I didn't need super fast graphics but I do a lot of video processing so I needed a lot of RAM (1GB) and a DVD-RW drive. These were not available at a decent price from a store bought PC
Tiger Direct sucks. I mean, they really bite the big one. Totally. I made the mestake of ordering from them, and naturally (par for the course for them I later found out), they screwed it up. I call the support number and the guy on the line IS ACTUALLY DOING BONG HITS ON THE PHONE!!! I could hear it! I'm not making this up. He was so stoned that he kept forgetting what we were talking about! After giving up on him, I tried calling back for days and never got through. I sent tons of email to them and they never answered. My problem never got resolved. Whatever you do, avoid Tiger Direct like the plague!
Hmm, although http://accessmicro.com doesn't have a friendly web front as newegg.com, it does seem to undercut their prices.
I've built two AMD systems with no problems, ordered numerous parts and had a hassle free service when I had to cancel a large order.
Note that you can usually build a system cheaper there by looking for individual items rather than selecting their mobo+cpu or barebones systems. Very good prices on ti4x00 video cards, generally lower than you get reported on pricewatch.com
The downside: their online ordering system is very tedious.
Just a satisfied customer.
I've started using staples or officemax for monitors, since they ship free over $50, usually next day. If you're not too picky you can get a decent 17" with some soft of rebate for under $150 easy.
I recently built 2 white boxen for home use. I used newegg and had no complaints. But TC Computers was quicker and cheaper. I ordered a mobo/cpu/fan combo about 2 months ago, and it was on my front porch >> 25 hours to place the order! And every day they have a 'Todays Deal' item in addition to weekly specials. I find myself checking their site every day to see what the deal of the day is. Dangit, didn't I get that HTML code right???
I have found PROVANTAGE to be the best overall experience. I found them through http://ibuyernet.com/. They don't have the absolute lowest prices, but they are always very close. They're shipping costs are fair. Delivery is very fast.
MOST IMPORTANT: Customer service is top notch. Order tracking and returns are very good.
"No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
I've dealt with JNCS for quite a while, for both work and personal stuff.
Their bundles are a real time saver, prices quite decent, but the best thing, by far, are their return policies. I've rarely seen better.
I had an old Cyrix board (go ahead, laugh) I bought from him a few years ago that died after about a year of being in production. I called them up, and they had me bring it in (they're local to me, but would have taken it by mail, as well). They replaced the board with a PII, as they didn't have the equivalent Cyrix board any more. For no cost. Without even testing it. Just took the return.
Now thats service.
They have an excellent website: good selection, well laid out, good navingation tools (View by name, View By Price, include tax etc.) and good ordering system. They have good prices and very reasonable (my last order €8 on ~1½ kg) shipping charges which importantly is with DHL Express (2 days), so you can track your shipment on the DHL website (which is brilliant - I've been stuck in limbo several times not knowing when or if a shipment will arrive when buying from other retailers like dabs.com). And no I don't work for Komplett, just a happy customer.
As many others have said it will probably not be cheaper when you build your first machine but you will get higher quality parts. What this means is that when it comes time to upgrade (in 9-12 months) you only need to upgrade part of your system (say, only motherboard, processor, memory and graphics card). Also having bought quality parts any you upgrade can still continue to have a useful life as a server or SO's machine.
If you are going to build your own machine you do need to do your homework. Overview sites like http://www.arstechnica.com/, http://www.sharkyextreme.com are useful but don't always get it right. I find component/area focused wesites invaluable. Here are some good examples: http://www.motherboards.org/ , http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/ , http://storagereview.com/
Also a good idea is to lurk for a while in some of the product newsgroups / online forums.
One thing that you should not forget is that building your own PC is a lot of fun! It's interesting, satisfying and educational. So in the long run I think that it is both cheaper and more rewarding.
they are the bomb.
NOTE TO FBI:
the phrase "they are the bomb" is slang for "they is the shiznit"
NOTE TO FBI:
"the shiznit" is not anthrax.
I work as a system administrator for an ISP, but I also sometimes help out the hardware techs in our sister company when things are quite over here.
In my life I have never EVER owned a prebuilt PC, I have put together every one of them myself (the first one was an old 286 Xt which I got the parts for as a 7th birthday present).
I cannot get why anybody would want a computer that was prefab'ed. Working with the techs I am repeatedly amazed at how badly ALL prefab computers suck.
They always use the cheapest parts, usually have some shortcuts taken in the built process (like the screwing the motherboard to the case on top of the packing foam rather than mounting it on the screws - completely shutting of the MB's rear airflow - man does that ever cause smokers).
Hence I have no plans to change my policy.
However I do feel that you shouldn't buy online, shipping is expensive at least.
Call up your buddy who works for a computer company and have him bye it for you on the company account at wholesale prices - then just pay him back.
Every computer I ever owned was bought that way, often at a third of regular prices, and I ONLY buy good-brand hardware like Creative and NVidia.
Final note on MB's: If it comes with builtin VGA - DO NOT BUY - man that sucks soooo bad.
"Semper in excretum set alta variant"
I have been dealing with Allstarshop.com for over a year now, and I can highly reccomend them. Their shipping rates might seem a little high, but the overall savings more than make up for it. They have decent customer service, and pack things very well too.
I guess someone is paying you to post things like this then :) Dell perhaps?
Googlegear has very good prices on most parts and cablesonline.com has the best prices on network and cable gear. The site is not great so call if you need something.
You want mother boards, they've got mother boards, chasis, power supplies, video cards, printers, network gear, VCRs, DVD players, TVs, dish washers, you name it.
Anyone who has been to Fry's is reading this and nodding their heads knowingly, but there's a dark side my friend, a very dark side
There's the mile long line to return anything, the unhelpful or rude staff, the mountains of returned items of cheap brand equipment, and wost of all, even if you know exactly what you want, and where it is, it'll still take an hour to leave. There's too much crap that you want, but didn't realize you could get.
Resistance is futile!
Unless you're on a shoestring budget, and don't care much if your machine works, don't build your own.
You don't save that much, you don't get integration testing, you don't get free replacement parts if something doesn't work.
Besides, don't you want to keep the linux vendors afloat? I'd go with somebody like PCs for everybody. There you can spec your own from a short list of known-good parts, and they put their name behind it working well anyway.
The place I have used for some time for supplies. Prices competitive with the best, returns handled efficiently, service pretty good. Finally, they have a $5.95 shipping deal on all orders up to 150 pounds, which can certainly save a few bucks. http://www.tcwo.com
Oops: strike that. I just checked, and they're currently offering *free* shipping.
TANSTAAFL
First ask yourself a question. "What do I want to do with this computer?" If you just use office apps and maybe quickbooks or similar type stuff, Go Cheap! All the extra power won't benefit you any. I run all that stuff on a PII 266. If you want to play the latest games or do video editing etc., then you need to get great components. I recomend looking at Sharkyextreme, Tom's Hardware, ARS Technica, Anandtech, etc... To get good ideas of what you're looking for before you start shopping. Always know Exactly what you are looking for and don't accept a substitute unless it's one You researched. Many of these sites have systems they've speced out and tested already.
I Love Pricewatch!!! My local dealers GROAN when I walk in the door. I print out pricewatch listings and HAGGLE with my local dealer. Many of them don't even fight anymore!! They just tell me the lowest price they can give it to me for! If that plus tax comes within a few dollars of my pricewatch listing plus shipping, I take it (0-day free shipping). If it doesn't, I Leave and try another. If local dealers don't come close enough then I call the shops with the lowest prices on some of the items I want and HAGGLE with them! What is the lowest price they can give me on the other parts, so I can have them all shipped together from one place, and HAGGLE about the shipping charges! Many places make a profit off the shipping! I make great systems at rock-bottom prices this way. My tech friends even come to me for help with this.
If you'll use this anywhere but the garage, make it quiet. You won't regret it.
--- "1.21 Jigawatts!" -Doc
Like I said, you have to know exactly what you want before you buy from a vendor at a computer fair but my experience has been good. I did get a bad hard drive once but one email to the vendor resolved the problem. I received the new drive via UPS the next day and returned the bad drive in the same box. (prepaid shipping too) I've built 5 machines from parts bought at Cogan Fairs and I would bet I've had far less problems than if I'd bought from so called "reputable vendors" on line. My experience with online vendors, however has been mostly bad. Ram from Crucial was defective. Software purchased online never was received though my Visa was charged. I received a case that was damaged in shipping so bad that the covers wouldn't come off with out a hammer. Returning that and getting a replacement took 3 weeks. Granted there is a huge advantage to buying from a shop close to home. These folks have a vested interest in keeping their customers happy, but they have a large overhead and just can't compete with the "carnival gypsies" If you're careful and WELL PREPARED you can save a substancial amount of money. I would recommend an "established" computer fair. Visit their website and look into the policy they set for their vendors. And by all means stay away from flea markets. They generally have no control over vendors. Ernie
Well, I have recently just finished helping a friend build his own PC, and I plan to build my own after that. Why? Partly, I am fast becoming a geek. Secondly, I was pretty appalled by the build quality on cheap desktop OEM's, with their rubbish components and zero upgrade potential.
:) and tonnes of upgrade potential. It also lets you track down or recycle second hand components like monitors, cases, keyboards and mice.
Why build your own? True, it's often more expensive than a cheap "off the shelf" OEM... but you do get a PC catered to your EXACT needs (I don't need a GeForce 4 or whatever), higher quality components (well, if they're what you choose anyway
My friend and I built entirely from online vendors... the process of thinking what specs he wanted to installing the OS took about two weeks from a standing start (neither of us had any PC experience before so we had a fair amount of researching to do). He also decided on an expensive case, since the case will outlast the computer...
Final specs were:
Athlon XP 1800 (£90)
Thermaltake heatsink (£15)
Gigabyte KT333 XP mobo c/w onboard (creative) sound and ethernet (only the RAID array doesn't work in Linux - but apparently Promise have a Linux controller for RH in beta) (£95)
Lian Li PC 60 Case (£130)
Enermax 350W PSU (£53)
Generic GeForce 2 (£30)
256 MB Crucial DDR (I didn't order this one)
60 GB Barracuda 4 (£80)
USR 56K external modem (£70)
Pioneer DVD-ROM (£65)
s/h 17" monitor (£80)
Free stuff that either came with the components or was codged from friends/junked PC's included all the cabling and screws, thermal paste, floppy drive, keyboard, mouse and speakers.
OS was RedHat 7.3 that the guy in the shop burned for him for a fiver.
If you wish, replace the (pretty) aluminium case with a POS £30 job and you just have a slightly uglier and harder to access machine, and knocking £100 off that total.
For this he's got a damned sexy looking computer with pretty good specs for what he needs, which is alot more reliable than his previous OEM computers and will last a heck of a lot longer.
I too have vowed never to buy an OEM model again. I'm sick of forking out a fortune for Windows on a hidden "recovery" partition when I already own a licensed version of Win2k. I'm sick of computers coming bundled with winmodems. I'm sick of missing cabling in computers and all the rest of it (I "fixed" a friends computer recenty - only one IDE channel, no CD -> soundcard cable, badly fixed heatsink, loose motherboard).
Sure, there are OEM's who will give you good quality machines (mine isn't bad), but building your own will still give you a far better computer. Yeah, it may cost a little more, but if you BYO in the long run it'll cost you much less for a far superior computer.
When I build mine, all I'm going to need to buy is a processor, heatsink, mobo, PSU, RAM and maybe a coupla new HDD's... then I can retire this P3 to be used as a local servery thing and put it back in it's old case.
I would seriously recommend building your own. Not only is it interesting and fun, but you'll ghet a much more reliable PC at the end of it - and depending on your needs, it may even be cheaper than one of the dreaded "off the shelf" budget OEM's of equivalent spec (although it won't come bundled with all the bumpf).
Here's some of the sites we ordered from or found helpful (all UK based):
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/index.htm - scan products index
http://www.overclock.co.uk - have some nice high end components at relatively cheap prices
http://www.kustompcs.co.uk - again, some high end components and other stuff to make your computer look different
http://www.eclipse-computers.com - wide range of standard to high end components
http://www.pcindex.co.uk - large price list of all kinds of components
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
I know everybody is praising NewEgg, in fact I just ordered the Soyo SY-KT333 Ultra motherboard, which is FANTASTIC. But, do not forget the other great online vendors. Being from Houston, Texas I also have the luck of two local online vendors: Axion and Directron. Axion as some absolutely great prices, in fact I'm going this weekend for more parts, and Directron has some great deals also, though sometimes not as good as NewEgg.
I would always prefer to buy locally in case of any problems and for instant gratification. The local Fry's takes months to get in line with the rest of the PC market.
So in summary, you cannot go wrong with NewEgg in terms of price and customer service. You might pay a few bucks more than the lowest of the lowest prices, but it is worth it. Customer service is great! Do not forget other great vendors such as Axion with great prices for many many things and Directron for their inventory and prices also.
I can't really comment on Steven's annoying qualities, as I don't watch broadcast television. Ever.
However, I have seen figures which suggest that Dell's sales to home users have skyrocketed since the "Dude" ads began.
I have no numbers to back this up, so take it for what it's worth. Apparently annoying marketing works. Of course, annoying marketing is a primary reason for my above mentioned viewing habits.
iceaxe
WALSTIB!
About once a month there is one here in Pittsburgh put on by Market Pro. They have just about everything there you could ever want, decent prices, and most are willing to haggle on the price abit.
(Score:0, Interesting)
I am also bulding my own and I find that the parts I want are available from googlegear.com for a good price.
Hey, all - thanks for all the information, both in your posts and the e-mails. I just wanted to get everybody's opinion on the subject before making a decision, and thought it would be an interesting discussion for [most] everybody else. [If you think it's boring, then skip it already!]
Putting a system together is a no-brainer for me. It's fun, and I truly "own" the system. The quality and control are top considerations. Yes, I have plenty of experience -- my information is just a little out of date. I'm not working inside a hardware corp. any more, and need to find out how to purchase the stuff on my own. [Don't get any ideas.] It's time to catch up!
It looks like I'll be making a visit to the local whitebox places. I like being able to just walk in and say, "Hey, I need one of these," or even, "This is defective, I need a replacement." There's nothing like talking to a live person who knows his stuff. Also, there's no hassles with shipping or tech support.
To be fair, I'll also check out the web sites you recommended. NewEgg and PriceWatch seem to be the top sites, and there are some other interesting sites to explore. I get the feeling that setting up a good relationship with a local business will be more rewarding, however.
I agree that I can best control the quality of the parts going into the system if I build it myself. I can also troubleshoot it much better and don't have to hassle with clueless tech support people or time-consuming RMA's. BTW - Thanks for the insight on the corner-cutting in the prebuilt systems.
I have a lot of extra parts lying around just itching to get into a complete system. As for monitors, keyboards, mice, and such, those are easy enough to get. I was primarily interested in the box itself.
Again, thanks for taking the time on this subject. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who will benefit. (That's what /. is all about, right?)
greg_searle(at)hotmail(dot)com
Ever dream you could fly? Get up from the Flight Sim. I Fly
go to every single hardware site on the net you can find. read all of their hardware reviews.
w w.planethardware.com
there is a plethora of hardware to choose from. you'll be lost in a sea of confusion and have a big headache if you buy the wrong stuff.
www.tomshardware.com
www.sharkeyextreme.com
w
and there are many more. just open up google and look.
and don't forget www.pricewatch.com when you go to buy your hardware. they have listings of the cheapest prices on the net.
i'm going to build a new machine soon and i'm looking at an aluminum case. a 350 watt power supply.
an abit motherboard, i've had an abit for the past 3 years. a bh6 and it's seen 3 different processors. a celeron 300mhz, a p3 667mhz and a p3 1gighz with a slocket adaptor. abit in my opinion is one hell of a mobo.
a new gforce 4 video card.
i'll keep my soundblaster audigy card.
and other goodies like my cd burner etc. etc.
well anyways. remember to read up on all of the hardware you're looking to buy. good luck.
I have been doing business with these guys for a couple years and they are outstanding. They have a great interface as well. They do custom built systems with brand name parts that you can rely on. Check them out here. [PCUSA.COM]
Au contraire, mon frere. Building an IBM-style PC, while not rocket science, is also not completely trivial. At the very least you get to learn what goes where so you can do your own hardware repairs, rather than taking it to the shop and paying $50 an hour so those screwdriver monkeys can get their $8.
As for putting your own computer together in the days before the IBM PC, there were those that did so (I think the Altair shipped as a kit). However the vast majority of computer users used TRS-80s, Apple IIs, Commodore PETs and the like, all of which required even less configuration than the IBM PC.
Someone you trust is one of us.
I've seen a fair amount of discussion about where to buy, and how to buy, but its always good to talk over some experiences with hardware, too.
/. who thinks he knows more than he does :P
If you're really looking for a homebuilt system for cheap gaming, I'd have to recomend an Athlon with a motherboard built around the nForce chipset.
First of all, while the top-end P4s are marginally faster than the top-end AthlonXPs, dollar for dollar AMD is still kicking Intel's ass. If you're not planning on spending the absolute maximum for the absolute best machine absolutely possible, then you're going to be making some compromises. So once you come down into the price-range that AMD sells their chips, theirs will always be the better performers.
The nVidia nForce chipset is pretty cool for those building a machine on a budget. For about $100 you get a motherboard with integrated 10/100 ethernet, a reasonably full-featured audio capability, and a GeForce2MX video GPU. If you had to get all those components separately, it'd probably cost a fair amount more, although of course you could also get better gear. Still, it leaves room for upgrading, as you can always add a better 3D card later once you've got some more cash. That and some more RAM would probably breathe enough life into an aging machine to keep it going another year.
You can put together everything for that from the case up with an AthlonXP 1800+ for around $600 if you shop around.
A CDR burner rather than a CDROM drive is always a good addition, but unless you're planning on watching movies on your PC, a DVD-ROM drive doesn't make a lot of sense. I've had one for two years and haven't run across anybody using DVD-ROMs for software or data that I'd be interested in, although we use DVD+RWs at work (with datasets that are over 650MB after compression). The DVD-R/DVD-RW/DVD-RAM/DVD+R/DVD+RW products still seem pretty fragmented, and media are pretty expensive. So unless you've got an application that needs it, I'd save my money.
One more bit of info that might be useful. Crucial is one of the better names in memory out there, and if you go to crucial.com, they ship 2nd day air for free, with prices comparable to Kingston memory from other online places.
As always, these opinions are those of some random jackass on
if ($it != $onething) {$it = $another;}
However many PC manufacturers do that kind of thing, especially at the budget end. Then they can claim the machine is "fast" without having to spend lots of money.
DIY lets you balance the performance of the various components to meet your requirements instead of the marketing dept.
Paul.
You are lost in a twisty maze of little standards, all different.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
As well as model systems, sometimes seeing good pictures and descriptions of how to do things is useful. I built a stable system with the help of this guide: http://www4.tomshardware.com/howto/01q1/010115/ind ex.html
Hope it helps someone else as well.
When building your own system and purchasing all the parts yourself, going OEM instead of retail can save you a shitload of money. You might lose a year or two on the warranty, but how often do your components go bad on their own?
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
It may not even be your fault. I felt I could handle building my own system. I read many, many reviews and carefully selected a range of reasonably priced quality parts and assembled the system myself.
It turns out the mother-board had a voltage regulation problem. The system failed unpredictably for weeks. In between using the system for real work, I spent many days trying to track down the problem. The motherboard eventually fried itself and the processor. Fortunately, I bought all the parts locally from one place - www.ascent.co.nz - and they offered to try to sort the problem out. They identified the problem, and then they replaced both the motherboard and processor at no charge (pretty nice of them). By the time it was sorted, and I had restored my confidence in the stability of the machine, I had lost three months of elapsed time.
A friend assembled almost the same system as me. His CPU fan failed on the second time up sending the processor temperature to 100C - once the fan was replaced, the system still seemed to work. This is why you should consider buying a CPU boxed set that includes a heatsick and fan, this avoids any problem with the fan from causing uncovered consequential damages to the CPU.
Building it yourself can give you a buzz. But you have to be prepared to spend time and money sorting out any unexpected problems. There's a element of luck involved as to whether it goes smoothly. Also, if you buy enought parts for two machines you have more chance to try an diagnose problems by swapping parts.
A compromise is to go to a place like www.ascent.co.nz, choose the parts, and then have them build and test the unit.
Cases are not interchangeable. Some people cheap out on the case. It's a big mistake to do that. A case that is hard to work in can make installation very unpleasant. A good case makes it a snap.
:) I made the mistake of doing that and, while the carrying handle on the top was nifty, nothing else was.
I like Antec a lot, they have snap-out slide rails for the drives, snap out drive bays, a handle on the side of the case for easy removal, and a good use of internal space. I'm sure there are other good cases out there. Especially don't buy anything that looks like an IMac case.
WWJD? JWRTFA!
I think most people disregard Dell as a parts dealer and they shouldn't. If you check sites such as gotapex.com, you'll see they often have the best deals on Dell branded peripherals which can include video cards, hard drives, and a big one, the monitor. They usually have some 15-20% discount plus free shipping which really helps on the monitor. If you can't find it there, Newegg's got my vote.
and it made me want to poke around a bit. eventually i found this:
So what happens to the parts that failed testing? Some get thrown out, but many are re-tested and graded to lesser speeds and/or conditions (i.e. without guardbands). Others aren't even re-tested (even though they might not have gone through burn-in). Yes, these lower-grade modules will probably work today, but they're more prone to marginal performance and failures, especially over time. DRAM manufacturers often sell this memory to third party vendors who then re-label them with their own brand name. Third party vendors are often required to remove the original DRAM manufacturer's name from the chips. This memory is typically referred to as "generic memory."
-- john
than I would have if I'd have bought it off the shelf.
On the other hand, I've always gotten exactly what I wanted under the hood, and I wouldn't have if I'd've bought off the shelf. I'd've wound up with a chassis-of-the-week instead of my nicely cooling one, who knows what CAS latency on the RAM, whoever's motherboard-of-the-week...
Instead, what I've got cost me more, but it's what I wanted.
-JDF
The online store I have bought everything from. Cheap shipping (not dependant on size/weight), great website, great customer service, prices - well not the best... also, www.directdial.com has both Canadian and American stores (sometimes hard to get new parts you want from another Canadian reseller)