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I can tell you why Dell isn't having the return issue, even though it will get me modded down by the zealots. Do you want to know why? It is actually quite simple: It is because Dell has the Linux Netbooks hidden, that's why! Are they on the front page? Nope. Are they on the first page you get when you type "Netbook" on their site? Nope again. And there is a REASON for that, and it is pretty damned smart if you ask me. The reason is that the ONLY way you are gonna get a Linux anything from Dell is if you know about them and go hunting for them. That means the customer A-knows EXACTLY what Linux is, and B- Is willing to go out of their way to get it.

Heh... As an exercise, I conducted a little experiment. I wanted to see if your claims were at all true...

First click: A search for "netbook" on dell's main page

Second click: The netbook product lineup main page

Third click: "Choose your mini". At which point you're offered a choice between a blue one or a red one (A 10v or a 10) which lists Linux or Windows XP as the OS.

At which point you're into purchasing. Now... Oddly enough, there was only one choice which was clearly marked "Customize With Ubuntu"- but it's one of the ones you'd really, really want, whether you're doing Ubuntu or XP, unless you're unable to afford the extra $20-50 for the stock config on the price. Seriously.

As an observation, neither "Linux" nor "Ubuntu" was plugged into looking for this ephemeral "buried" netbook you're claiming- just "netbook".

Four.
Clicks.

And it was the same number if you were looking for a Linux preinstall or an XP one.

Sorry, you're neither correct nor insightful- and I wish the people that'd modded you up had bothered to do the same little experiment I did and didn't give you the time of day, any more than the discussion threads over at Linux Today gave you an inch on this stuff you're coming up with. Which, I might add, is verbatim what you posted over here.

I can tell you why Dell isn't having the return issue, even though it will get me modded down by the zealots. Do you want to know why? It is actually quite simple: It is because Dell has the Linux Netbooks hidden, that's why! Are they on the front page? Nope. Are they on the first page you get when you type "Netbook" on their site? Nope again. And there is a REASON for that, and it is pretty damned smart if you ask me. The reason is that the ONLY way you are gonna get a Linux anything from Dell is if you know about them and go hunting for them. That means the customer A-knows EXACTLY what Linux is, and B- Is willing to go out of their way to get it.

Heh... As an exercise, I conducted a little experiment. I wanted to see if your claims were at all true...

First click: A search for "netbook" on dell's main page

Second click: The netbook product lineup main page

Third click: "Choose your mini". At which point you're offered a choice between a blue one or a red one (A 10v or a 10) which lists Linux or Windows XP as the OS.

At which point you're into purchasing. Now... Oddly enough, there was only one choice which was clearly marked "Customize With Ubuntu"- but it's one of the ones you'd really, really want, whether you're doing Ubuntu or XP, unless you're unable to afford the extra $20-50 for the stock config on the price. Seriously.

As an observation, neither "Linux" nor "Ubuntu" was plugged into looking for this ephemeral "buried" netbook you're claiming- just "netbook".

Four.
Clicks.

And it was the same number if you were looking for a Linux preinstall or an XP one.

Sorry, you're neither correct nor insightful- and I wish the people that'd modded you up had bothered to do the same little experiment I did and didn't give you the time of day, any more than the discussion threads over at Linux Today gave you an inch on this stuff you're coming up with. Which, I might add, is verbatim what you posted over here.

I can tell you why Dell isn't having the return issue, even though it will get me modded down by the zealots. Do you want to know why? It is actually quite simple: It is because Dell has the Linux Netbooks hidden, that's why! Are they on the front page? Nope. Are they on the first page you get when you type "Netbook" on their site? Nope again. And there is a REASON for that, and it is pretty damned smart if you ask me. The reason is that the ONLY way you are gonna get a Linux anything from Dell is if you know about them and go hunting for them. That means the customer A-knows EXACTLY what Linux is, and B- Is willing to go out of their way to get it.

Heh... As an exercise, I conducted a little experiment. I wanted to see if your claims were at all true...

First click: A search for "netbook" on dell's main page

Second click: The netbook product lineup main page

Third click: "Choose your mini". At which point you're offered a choice between a blue one or a red one (A 10v or a 10) which lists Linux or Windows XP as the OS.

At which point you're into purchasing. Now... Oddly enough, there was only one choice which was clearly marked "Customize With Ubuntu"- but it's one of the ones you'd really, really want, whether you're doing Ubuntu or XP, unless you're unable to afford the extra $20-50 for the stock config on the price. Seriously.

As an observation, neither "Linux" nor "Ubuntu" was plugged into looking for this ephemeral "buried" netbook you're claiming- just "netbook".

Four.
Clicks.

And it was the same number if you were looking for a Linux preinstall or an XP one.

Sorry, you're neither correct nor insightful- and I wish the people that'd modded you up had bothered to do the same little experiment I did and didn't give you the time of day, any more than the discussion threads over at Linux Today gave you an inch on this stuff you're coming up with. Which, I might add, is verbatim what you posted over here.

No. Dell clearly states that you are NOT getting Windows on their Ubuntu page - http://dell.com/ubuntu (URL shown deliberately to show that it is short and easy to remember).

To the grandparent poster: they also have an XPS laptop with Ubuntu

Huh ?

http://www1.ca.dell.com/ca/en/home/Laptops/laptop-inspiron-10/pd.aspx?refid=laptop-inspiron-10&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&ref=lthp

Leftmost item is a Dell Mini 10v (as you pointed out), with Ubuntu pre-installed, and a 160GB hard drive. In fact,the page you linked to seems to have the same item (3rd from left), albeit at an inexplicably higher price (and in USD).

Who gives a shit about the "instant discount" for the Windows version?

It's really hard to get a Dell netbook delivered with Linux. At the moment, the Latitude 2100 is one of the very few machines to come with Linux. It's $30 cheaper than with a Microsoft OS. Dell's search page has a "FreeDOS and Linux" option, and if you check that, you get "No configurations are valid for the selected options." There's a Linux option for the Mini 10v, but the Windows versions has an "instant discount" to bring its price down to match the Linux version. (Also, the Windows version comes with a hard drive, while the Linux version only has 8GB of flash memory)

There are, as far as I know, no Linux-only netbooks left on the market.

It's really hard to get a Dell netbook delivered with Linux. At the moment, the Latitude 2100 is one of the very few machines to come with Linux. It's $30 cheaper than with a Microsoft OS. Dell's search page has a "FreeDOS and Linux" option, and if you check that, you get "No configurations are valid for the selected options." There's a Linux option for the Mini 10v, but the Windows versions has an "instant discount" to bring its price down to match the Linux version. (Also, the Windows version comes with a hard drive, while the Linux version only has 8GB of flash memory)

There are, as far as I know, no Linux-only netbooks left on the market.

Dell's recovery CDs, however, are typically just OEM images of the OS included with the machine. They include all the extra software on another disc -- so if the automated recovery doesn't work on a Dell, just fire up the disc.

Lost your disc? No problem, because Dell will ship you a new one free of charge once per computer.

Contrast this with Sony, who doesn't ship recovery discs AT ALL, sometimes even without the Acer option to burn your own recovery discs -- which few people do anyways. Then, if you want to get recovery discs for their machines, you have to PURCHASE THEM for $20 or so.

I recommend AGAINST Sony's computer equipment under all circumstances -- it's just crap. Get yourself a Dell where the replacement parts are cheap, the in-home service is good, and the recovery CDs are free.

Blame software. If you look around, a surprising number of POS systems are running some sort of XP embedded + POS graphical bloatware combination. (Dell's offerings in the area are more or less representative, if you are morbidly curious). Obviously, POS functions could be(and were) done on seriously weedly embedded hardware. Trouble is, if your business is already running quickbooks or something, and they want their cash register to integrate, the path of least resistance is to buy quickbooks' cash register product, which is a giant pile of bloat that only runs on full systems. On a global scale, you'd probably save money by rebuilding it to run on embedded ARM or something; but any individual economic actor is better off just buying a (still shockingly cheap) general purpose X86.

You still don't need 64 bits for that; but all of AMD's designs(aside from some of their old Geode gear, and maybe embedded products based on Athlon XPs, if you can still buy those) are based on Athlon 64 cores, and they would save essentially nothing by disabling 64 bit capability, and might lose in certain applications that do require 64 bit support, so they might as well ship with it.

Isn't the point of netbooks to be small and light? 12" screens start to defeat that; I wouldn't doubt that most netbook purchasers prefer 10" screens (of course, any smaller than that and the keyboard gets pretty cramped). If you're going to get a 12" machine, you might as well make the jump to a full notebook...

Netbooks seem heavy compared to high end (=expensive) lightweight laptops. The Dell Latitude E4200 has a 12" diagonal screen, a faster GPU, and a dual core CPU, and yet it weighs 2.2 lbs - as much as the lighter 10" netbooks, all which have much slower hardware.

Unfortunately, it's 5-8x as expensive.

Maybe you just pick the shittiest laptops on Dell's site:

Dell Latitude = $1559.00
MacBook Pro = $1699.00

A hundred dollars difference, and the MacBook Pro uses DDR3 while the Dell Latitude uses DDR2.

by the relatively limited Open Source "alternatives" when we want the very best hardware on offer out there. :) (sorry. couldn't find HP's alternatives.)

From the review:

Many PC manufacturers, including netbook makers, are offering a free upgrade voucher for Microsoft's Windows 7 and ...

But from what I can tell, Asus & Dell do not.

I think netbook customers will have to wait until 10/22 since the valid upgrade path is for Vista OEM'd products.

It wouldn't be that way if MS said "64-bit only" when they started talking about Windows 7.

Announced as 64-bit only restriction originally? That would not have been very smart considering they had even less say in the netbook market then, compared to now. Besides, as I already said in my other post, if they had done that, OEMs would be installing XP and Linux on cheap netbooks, not Windows 7, which is definitely not what MS wants, as they reportedly only make $15 per XP license on a netbook and not shoving their new product into the market.

XP licensing for netbooks only?
WTF is this bullshit. I've heard this FUD for almost a year now.

WTF bullshit - because that's when the shit was announced - just over a year ago. WTF - you couldn't find shit in the shittank? Here is your "bullshit" served on the shitplate just for the shitseekers who don't know WTF they are talking about. Shit!

I can STILL go to Dell's site and get XP on a regular desktop.

The XP downgrade program? Yes, you need to buy Vista "BONUS" system, meaning you are paying for a Vista license, then for the license to downgrade to XP on top of that - Dell does all that for you right here. I believe you can also get XP if you have volume licensing program from MS, mostly for large organizations who refused to use Vista. Besides these and netbooks, MS is finished w/selling XP licenses to OEMs.

Antivirus/Dat ($50) + VisualStudio ($199) + WinDVD ($79) + CoffeeCup ($50) + $50 VScan renewal yearly for say 4 years = $578. $70 more bucks to get DVD Playback for WinDVD since anything up to Vista doesn't include MPEG-2 and neither will the basic versions of Windows 7

That's what you need to buy to get something comparable to the OS and bundled software included with a new Mac (although the Mac doesn't need the VScan software, the Windows PC will in the real world).

You also get no additional shovelware loaded onto your desktop. None...I've bought a lot of hardware over the years from the big vendors and they all load your PC with boatloads of crap that often make it more viable to just do a wipe when you get it (HP, Sony, Dell, etc..they are all guilty of it) assuming they even give you a 'clean' installer disk. Most don't. They just give you an imaging CD that puts the same shovelware back on.

You don't have to deal with any of that with an Apple.

Now tack those additional software costs, and the hidden costs in time for a $1000 Dell laptop for example. You end up with about $1500 bucks for the software + hardware not including the cleanup costs and time for shovelware and malware post purchase.

A similar Macbook Pro for $1700 doesn't look so bad to me considering the lack of hassle you get out of it for that extra $200. I was a die-hard Windows fan. I was one of those freaks that went to the movie theater for the launch of Windows 95's beta and I was in line at the store at 12AM to buy it on release night. I bought every OS they've released since then including 98, ME, 2000, XP, and Vista (Vista) which will be my last MS purchase. I used to scoff at Apple. Not any more. Unlike some here who throw out opinion without ever having actually bought one, I actually did. I now understand why the folks who use them are such a loyal group. You actually get to enjoy your computer, rather than struggle with it.

Sarcasm noted. Dell doesn't have any No-OS computers readily available for sale, thank you very much. All of their pages advertise Microsoft operating systems. If I DIG, if I PERSIST, I can get past all of that, in the business area. Dell knows that there is a market for Linux, and they know that there is a market for No-OS machines. Why are those market areas buried deep?

http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=us&l=en&cs=&k=no+os&cat=all&ref=ac

The second part of your post is entirely off target. I did stipulate "reputable dealer". If no one in my county ever heard of a dealer, how can I establish their reputation? Word of mouth, almost everywhere that people are evolved enough to speak, says that Dell makes good machines, with good warranties, and that most people are happy with them. Joe Buzzard's Custom Computers on Highway 69 South? I haven't heard anything good or bad about him, because no one knows him, hence, he has no reputation.

I bought this laptop and Dell wouldn't give me such a refund.

What point is it that people hope to make when they do things like this? If you want to support preloaded Linux, why not buy preloaded Linux?

The point is that the new computers that are available with Linux or no OS preloaded are a very tiny fraction indeed of the variety of new computers available with Windows. If I want, for example, a Dell Mini 10 with the new low-power US15W/GMA500 chipset, I am forced to buy with it a license for Windows xp. If you know how to buy this particular model new with Linux or no OS preloaded, please do post back with directions.

If you want to get a PC with no OS at all, why not buy a used machine on eBay that has no OS?

That's just silly. A used machine is not new, has no warranty, and is older and therefore less relevant. Plus, the used machine, if it was bought new with Windows, will be priced accordingly. The Windows license is the one part of that used machine that doesn't wear and tear. If I didn't want to buy Windows on new hardware, why would I want to pay for it on old hardware?

I built my own desktop. No OS.

Cool. I'm still looking for that mini 10/US15W. Can you build that new without Windows?

something about a "Microsoft Tax."

It's a metaphor for a non-optional fee that gives me nothing of value in return. That's not a troll statement--Windows may have value to some, but it has no value to me.

A bit of exploration gives one possibility. This page, on Dell DRACs , which have a web interface, shows that the web interface supports really only IE and firefox, and those only on 32 bit machines.

The Dell mini 10v is $299. Get solid state drive for an extra $30. Same price for Ubuntu or WinXP. Looks like they just got rid of the mini 9, too bad. It was also $299.

Can't see prices getting too much lower than that!

Seeing Dell Minis bundled with Ubuntu I thought they will be one of the prime partners.. What's up?

BTW, here is a Dell SP2309W with the same resolution:

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&cs=cadhs1&sku=320-7641

This is a fantastic idea and having used monitors in portrait mode (vertically oriented) instead of landscape mode, I can never go back. Better yet, there are many monitors that have a built in pivot. You can fit twice as many lines of code and still take very little desk space.

This monitor is a good example.

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=bsd&cs=cabsdt1&sku=320-6272

It is 24" but if you scroll down, you will see how it probably doesn't take any more room than a 17" in landscape mode.

Seriously, as a developer, designer, writer, etc. this is one of the best upgrades you can make.

(replying to my own post)

CASE IN POINT:
Dell S2409W Full HD Monitor
Experience stunning detail and clarity with full High-Definition resolution. Ideal for multimedia entertainment, gaming and productivity.
        * Full HD 1920 x 1080 resolution
        * 16:9 dynamic aspect ratio
        * HDMI high quality digital connection
Starting Price $279
Instant Savings $80
Subtotal $199
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&sku=320-7345

Versus:

Dell
UltraSharp 2408WFP 24-inch Widescreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor with Height Adjustable Stand
Starting Price $549.00
Instant Savings $100.00
Subtotal $449.00

I mean, seriously, WTF.

The Dell 2007FP is a 20" 4:3 1600x1200 monitor. This is pretty much the only monitor we buy at work.

You are already killing your desk space now with a 17" CRT. Any flat panel you get will give you so much more space than the CRT.

You have learned the dirty little secret of flat panel monitors; 19" monitors are the same as 17" monitors, but with bigger pixels. It is sad that this extends into the wide screen monitors as well, because a 19" wide is only 1440 x 900.

So, buy a 20" wide monitor. The Dell one does 1680 x 1050. I know it will take way less depth than the CRT, and I'm guessing that it will actually be smaller in all dimensions than the current monitor you have.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=biz&cs=555&sku=320-6523

PC's were NOT a hubyist market in 1984. Actually, there were more homes with PCs in '84 than homes with cell phones

But Apple and Microsoft had already released several products by 1984. Look at 1980 when the companies began production. Secondly in 1984 a mobile phone required a 7 Kg battery just to operate for 1 day.

Lowest mac is $845 for students

Conditions attached, doesn't count.

Lets do a real comparison. Lets use retail prices, so anyone can buy. I'm not a student and haven't been one in over 5 years. Also Apple do not provide those deals in Australia so lets use the prices everyone has to.

Lowest end macbook 13" A$1565.

Lowest end Dell 13" vostro A$1099 Pretty much the same spec except the Dell has a NBD onsite warranty.

Lowest end Macbook Pro 15" A$2641.

Dell Vostro 1530 A$1530 when configured with a higher res screen and 2.53 Proc. I configured the Dell to have a similar spec to the macbook except the Dell had a 7.2K RPM HDD compared to the Macbooks 5.4K RPM and the Dell also had an NBD onsite warranty.

Do some research before shooting your mouth off fanboy, I'm sick of doing these posts. Mac's are and always have been significantly more expensive then other laptops. This should readily be apparent now Apple are using the same off the shelf components as all other manufacturers.

You haven't provided a single link to corroborate your conjecture let alone enough to debunk the evidence I've presented. Also posting AC is not good form Sandbags (you used all the same spelling and grammar mistakes as well as the same flawed arguments, it's not that hard to tell).

PC's were NOT a hubyist market in 1984. Actually, there were more homes with PCs in '84 than homes with cell phones

But Apple and Microsoft had already released several products by 1984. Look at 1980 when the companies began production. Secondly in 1984 a mobile phone required a 7 Kg battery just to operate for 1 day.

Lowest mac is $845 for students

Conditions attached, doesn't count.

Lets do a real comparison. Lets use retail prices, so anyone can buy. I'm not a student and haven't been one in over 5 years. Also Apple do not provide those deals in Australia so lets use the prices everyone has to.

Lowest end macbook 13" A$1565.

Lowest end Dell 13" vostro A$1099 Pretty much the same spec except the Dell has a NBD onsite warranty.

Lowest end Macbook Pro 15" A$2641.

Dell Vostro 1530 A$1530 when configured with a higher res screen and 2.53 Proc. I configured the Dell to have a similar spec to the macbook except the Dell had a 7.2K RPM HDD compared to the Macbooks 5.4K RPM and the Dell also had an NBD onsite warranty.

Do some research before shooting your mouth off fanboy, I'm sick of doing these posts. Mac's are and always have been significantly more expensive then other laptops. This should readily be apparent now Apple are using the same off the shelf components as all other manufacturers.

You haven't provided a single link to corroborate your conjecture let alone enough to debunk the evidence I've presented. Also posting AC is not good form Sandbags (you used all the same spelling and grammar mistakes as well as the same flawed arguments, it's not that hard to tell).

Well, if they are bitching about AMD and Intel, he can call Dell's DCS and buy VIA systems or just buy the systems that Amazon, Google and others are purchasing (using Intel and AMD)

They did: You just register some customer information with Apple here and a fedex delivers your hardware patch within a week or so... It's the Apple way.

Well there is another company doing cheaper repairs the same way: http://www.dell.com/
After all I d rather spend 500 USD on semi working garbage and having at least repair options than sitting on 3000$ semi working garbage and waiting for a recall which will never happen ;-)

Start here. Scroll down to "Pin Assignments", then scroll a bit more to "Composite Video Connector"

Pin Number 1: LUMA COMPOSITE CHROMA

*whew* OK, done for now. More to come...

Seems to be the case. Interesting the image shows a laptop. You can get an image (that doesn't include playback and codecs) for the 15n:

http://linux.dell.com/files/ubuntu/hardy/iso-images/ubuntu-8.04.1-dell-reinstall.iso

Microsoft were so desperate to get on the netbook wagon, they forced OEMs to use XP - an OS which was officially dead - at knockdown prices.

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on Slashdot.

First: Microsoft didn't "force* netbook makers to put anything on their netbooks. If they were going to "force" it, why wouldn't they be "forcing" Dell to put XP on this box: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DNDWEA4&s=dhs Face the facts, netbook makers put XP on their netbooks because their customers demanded it.

Second: Forced them to use XP, as opposed to what? The non-existent fantasy version of Vista that Microsoft had made by elves that runs on netbook hardware? The netbook makers bought XP because XP is the only currently-supported Windows OS that runs on netbook hardware! DUH!

Thirdly XP isn't "officially dead" by any reasonable definition of the term.

And even XP can't really operate with SSD, and the netbook market has been skewed with netbooks with hard-disks, because "hard disks are better for you."

I like having a HD. It means I can put several movies on the HD at once, and watch them at my leisure-- my MSI Wind's like a portable DVD player with a 25-disk changer. It's utterly impossible, in your fantasy elf-world, that netbooks have HDs because customers (like Windows) demanded it?

Duh.

I looked for a "netbook" with SSD the other week in trawl of non-techie emporiums and I could not find one. All the netbooks I found were XP with hard-disks.

"in trawl of non-technie emporiums". Yah.

I'm using a Dell Mini 12 with Ubuntu "preinstalled". Nothing dead about it. The right drivers are installed and they are configured right.

Oh, and I bought a Mac notebook after I bought a Kubuntu floortop, but then I did go back (to Ubuntu).

If you happen to be in Japan you can buy a Dell netbook like mine here; if you're not in Japan you might find the same thing in some part of dell.com that's in your language.

What I wonder is why Dell won't (here) sell me any bigger laptop with some alternative to Windows.

They only have two PCs sold Ubuntu and two PCs sold with no OS - none of which are even halfway modern systems. It's almost like they don't want to make money from Linux users.

In India dell is not offering many/no ubuntu options . Dell store India shows 3 netbooks ,all of them with "Genuine Windows® XP Home Edition" :( There is a discussion in chennai linux users group regarding this .

You'd almost think that some large monopoly was using them for a hand-puppet.

No need to guess :P

While the OS they put on their retailer packages costs $100/seat, the POS POS from Intuit that they use now costs $1600/seat. My guess is they're re-negotiating with Intuit. The price of Windows is negligible, especially in this situation.

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/us/segments/bsd/point-of-sale-accounting?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

However, the alternative is worse: if newspapers don't find a way to make money online soon, they'll start seriously blending advertising inside news content. I don't want that to happen!

Oh I agree, it's time for newspapers to get their fair share. I mean, compare a newspaper to a manufacturer of fine computers, like Dell, whose products are unrivaled, and offer a great bargain for the buck. Dell is a thriving business despite their low, low prices, and the fact that they have a sale going on right now at dell.com. It's only reasonable that newspapers get compensated for their work in the same way as company like Dell, that dauntless innovator and technology powerhouse behind the new economy.

With other options out there shipping with ubuntu, who needs Asus?

the Ubuntu deal is a ripoff at Dell.

I don't get it. If I choose to buy the Ubuntu version, why am I being ripped off? From my point of view: I'm getting the OS I want (thus saving half a day installing and tweaking my own Ubuntu installation, as compared to buying the Windows version), at what looks to me like a reasonable price.

If it turns out later that someone else finds a way to provide me a comparable product at less of a price--great, I'll consider the offer.

As for guessing the value of the deal to Dell--forget it, I'm not interested. If they're making a huge profit at it, great, maybe they (and their competitors) will see that as an opportunity, and I'll get more offers like this next time.

And I'm highly skeptical of armchair attempts to estimate Dell's costs--there's the cost of the Windows licenses, possible adware payments, costs of post-sales support for the two OS's, costs of pre-sale development (developing and testing the two OS install images, etc.), etc., etc., etc.

As a customer, I'm just interested in what I get for my money. And the linked-to deal ($1099 for a 13" laptop, Ubuntu preloaded, 4G ram, Core 2 Duo P8600, 320GB (7200rpm) drive, etc.)--looks totally reasonable to me.

I'm submitting this on a 1420n that came with Ubuntu preloaded, and I've been pretty happy with it.

Dell Precision Open-Source Workstations with Linux: http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/precn_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd Please Dell, Bring these to Canada.

I just checked out this link and got a big laugh. If you follow one of the offerings you will see your choices for the Operating System. Mind you, these are all Linux O/S (or free DOS). But what O/S ICON did Dell place to the left? Not a penguin as one would expect, but the stupid Windows LOGO. Geez! How dumb can marketing people be. Uh, never mind, they're marketing people, that answer the question in and of itself.

Dell Precision Open-Source Workstations with Linux: http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/precn_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd Please Dell, Bring these to Canada.

How do you figure that? Last time I checked you save exactly $0.00 dollars by getting the Ubuntu over the Vista, at least on the Dell XPS I last looked at. So in this case if there is any savings from not going MSFT then YOU aren't the one seeing it.

  As you can see here it is $1099 for EITHER Vista or Ubuntu. So why in hell would you WANT Ubuntu when you can get the Vista and then download the latest Ubuntu for $0.00 dollars and use the Vista License in a VM or to dual boot? While I am all for choice, this choice seems about as logical as saying "Hey Dell, you don't make enough money, here take that $50 you have to send Ballmer and put it in your pocket. On me pal.". Someone who is smart enough to run Linux as a day to day OS is smart enough to download and burn an .iso. Now when you get something for choosing Linux, like how the Asus would have a bigger drive? That I can see. This just seems stupid IMHO. Cue the Linux users labeling me troll because I dared to point out the Ubuntu deal is a ripoff at Dell.

Why would I want to purchae Dell junk in the first place?

http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-9?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&ref=lthp&s=dhs

How do you figure that? Last time I checked you save exactly $0.00 dollars by getting the Ubuntu over the Vista, at least on the Dell XPS I last looked at. So in this case if there is any savings from not going MSFT then YOU aren't the one seeing it.

As you can see here it is $1099 for EITHER Vista or Ubuntu. So why in hell would you WANT Ubuntu when you can get the Vista and then download the latest Ubuntu for $0.00 dollars and use the Vista License in a VM or to dual boot? While I am all for choice, this choice seems about as logical as saying "Hey Dell, you don't make enough money, here take that $50 you have to send Ballmer and put it in your pocket. On me pal.". Someone who is smart enough to run Linux as a day to day OS is smart enough to download and burn an .iso. Now when you get something for choosing Linux, like how the Asus would have a bigger drive? That I can see. This just seems stupid IMHO. Cue the Linux users labeling me troll because I dared to point out the Ubuntu deal is a ripoff at Dell.

http://system76.com/index.php http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=anavml http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html

I picked up a scratch & dent computer, dual core 2.6, 3 GB of RAM, 320GB hard drive for $220 from the dell outlet.
http://www.dell.com/outlet
Considering it came with a licensed OS, it was cheaper than me building one.
just keep an eye on there, because they go quick. if it turns out that you can buy a better computer than what you have, just keep the new one and give her the old one...win-win?

>no dual CPU option.

Not true. You have to pick a single-processor or dual-processor system at the top of the tree on the "Configure" page at http://www.dell.com/content/topics/reftopic.aspx/pub/products/precn_kat?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz&~section=T7500.
There are 6 different choices: 32 & 64 bit single processor, 32 & 64 bit dual processor, and single & dual processor w/Linux.

It appears that this usage is not just limited to the furniture industry. The parent's search had Dell as the first sponsored link

Don't get me wrong, I like Ubuntu and have it running on a home system. But unless a major manufacturer starts preinstalling it it's going to be confined to the Linux enthusiast and the hobbyist market.

Is he just complaining that Dell doesn't offer the same Ubuntu packages that it offers in the United States?