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Dell Indicates Windows 7 Pricing Will Be Higher
ausekilis sends us word that a Dell spokesman said, without giving numbers, that Windows 7 pricing will be higher than Vista's or XP's. "Windows 7 pricing is potentially an obstacle to Windows 7 adoption for some users, though in just about every other aspect the operating system is beating Vista, according to a Dell marketing executive. ... [Darrell] Ward continued, 'In tough economic times, I think it's naive to believe that you can increase your prices on average and then still see a stronger swell than if you held prices flat or even lowered them. I can tell you that the licensing tiers at retail are more expensive than they were for Vista. ... Schools and government agencies may not be able to afford (the additional cost). Some of the smaller businesses may not be able to enjoy the software as soon as they'd like,' Ward said.'"
Now if we could just get Dell to put a little drop down option in its OS & Productivity Suite selection to have an option for "Ubuntu & Open Office (subtract $200)" on all of their computers. And then to have it actually be $200 cheaper with the exact hardware.
Then we might be talking about "2009: The Year of the Recession and Linux on the Desktop."
My work here is dung.
News at 11.
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
Dell is obviously unhappy with the price and they are signalling (Cards. a play that reveals to one's partner a wish that he or she continue or discontinue the suit led.) to Microsoft their discontent.
Dave Barnes 9 breweries within walking distance of my house
When you have a strong monopoly, you can squeeze the cash cow even in tough times.
How about this, sell a $10 Vista to Win7 upgrade disc. Charge a super low price for what is essentially service pack, and away we go. Everyone wins.
Probably the value/price ratio will be better for Windows 7 than for Vista (or at least, the perception of it). Of course, if you take that into account Mac OS X could have a better ratio, and Linux, well, give math headaches.
But if you dont count them as alternatives, then you have only one choice, and should pay whatever Microsoft think will be enough for them to survive the recession.
microsoft is a company sitting on 25 billion dollars. they apparently sold $3-4 billion in bonds? they are *raising* prices during some of the worst economic times that a lot of people of have seen.
it's like they have a pressing need for more than $30 billion?
for a company that needs to sell operating systems to maintain their future, it doesn't make sense.
e
See that won't happen for two reasons. One is that MS gives you better licensing when you bundle Windows with all systems from a line. However the major reason is that Dell doesn't want to put up with the shit it would generate. It would be a tech support nightmare if they did that on main stream, consumer systems. You'd get a great many people doing it because it saves money. However they'd give no thought to if their apps would work or if they were willing to spend the time learning a new OS and so on. They'd get flooded with calls about it and have all sorts of angry people.
That's why when companies do offer things like Linux or no OS options, they do so on business type machines. When they are selling to an organization with their own support, they hope you can figure out what will and will not work for you. For home users? Ya not so much. They'd buy it, try to install a game, then complain because it didn't work.
Also, based on the prices Dell pays, it'd be $100 or less per computer.
It has always been the fundamental problem with these x86 OEM/Windows/Linux news stories over the past decade or so here on Slashdot that no one here has any real info on:
* How much OEMs like Dell are paying for the various Windows versions
* What the contracts specify about pricing and how non-Microsoft OSes affect the prices Dell is chared by Microsoft
* How much the various add on/bundling software vendors are paying to subsidize the cost of Windows on x86 boxes
* How much it really costs Dell to support, advertise, and ship Linux in addition to Windows
Sure, people have anecdotal stories about how much Dell is paying for the various versions of Windows and other analyst estimates. But after ten years of hoping and predicting that Linux would be the obvious choice for OEMs to include instead of Windows in the crazy competitive and razor thin margins of OEMs that what people want to believe about Linux being cheaper just isn't true.
Windows 7 pricing will be higher than Vista's
Oh I'm so glad I bought Vista and qualify for a free Windows 7 upgrade.
Right?
they need to demonstrate to investors that they are indeed a money making business that will continue to make a lot of money in the future. Regardless of their cash position, if the investors leave, who already got shaky feelings from vista, then the market cap of the whole company goes down and ballmer will go looking for a job.
Now whether higher prices will help them make their sales goals, that's yet to be seen. In the short term, perhaps yes, with all the built in sales to the OEMs. In the long term, I bet the retail sales trail the oem sales for a while, so this might have been a pretty good plan overall anyways.
Note that Dell doesn't actually come out and say that. They aren't saying "MS is charging us $20 more per copy." They are hinting at it, but hedging their terms. What it smells like to me is Dell wants a better rate than they've been getting in the past, and this is one of the tactics they are using to get it.
Companies posture over pricing all the time, and sometimes publicly. If Dell can get people mad at MS for their high prices, even if the prices are no higher than they normally are, then maybe they get more leverage.
So while I have no inside knowledge of the situation, that's my bet. MS is keeping 7 prices the same, and Dell thinks they should be cut.
How much will it cost to get a copy of XP from Dell when 7 is released?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits" - Albert Einstein
If people is paying 350~700 for something that does not work, it makes sence to ask a surplus for something that works.
I thought this was about Windows.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Sometimes if you make it more expensive, people will buy it for that reason alone. They see the higher price, and think that there must be a good reason for it to be a little bit more expensive than the alternatives.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
I already pay a higher price for XP compared to Vista. Now I'm gonna have to pay a higher price for 7 compared to Vista?
Win 7 might be more expensive, but after what I experienced today, I think I'll happily upgrade from XP to 7 when the time comes. Even at a higher price, it's STILL have to better than the Mac I've been using. A friend of mine just gave me his old Macintosh, and I thought that was cool, because I used to have a Quadra in the early 90s and loved it.
But alas, I was fooled. This OS 10.2 computer refuses to run even the most-basic websites like youtube.com due to Flash not being installed. I tried upgrading but ran into problems with Internet Explorer (crashed), Safari 1.0 (refuses to download any software, even later versions of itself), and Firefox 3 (crashed during installation - I'm stuck using FF2). When I finally got-around to installing the Adobe Flash Player, I was told I need to upgrade to 10.4, and it refused to run.
Wonderful. Like I have an extra $150 laying-around to buy OSX 10.4. No wonder my friend "gave" this Mac to me - he didn't want the hassle. C'mon Windows 7! No matter how bad you might be, you certainly can't be as bad as this Mac I'm typing on.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Mod parent "Funny"!
Don't worry! Where you're going, you won't need eyes to see!
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Fsck that. Seriously. Fsck. That.
2010 = Year of Ubuntu on Joe Sixpack's computer, when he discovers that he can buy a netbook for less than the cost of a single Windows 7 license.
I don't get it. My theory of Vista as an expectation lowering decoy gets more and more plausible.
Linux remains free.
So given that there's 10 editions of Windows, I'm betting that Home Premium, Business, and Ultimate will be jacked up to compensate?
I don't get it. My theory of Vista as an expectation lowering decoy gets more and more plausible.
And history repeats itself. Anyone remember WindowsME?
Looks like MS wants Mac to win the OS war. This is practically handing the trophy over to Apple. Businesses are leery about open source, but Apple's a recognizable name to them.
Some of them very well might make the switch given MS' choice of direction (Office 2007, Vista, Server 2008, Win7).
I wonder what it's like inside Microsoft's little bubble world? It's as if they're oblivious to everyone and everything outside of it. A recession is on but hey!, lets go ahead and raise the price! I mean, after all everyone hates Vista so they should be kicking Microsoft's door in to have to opportunity to pay more for the next version, right?
Meanwhile I just upgraded my laptop to Jaunty and had it completely setup and configured to my needs in under a half hour. For free. It really makes me rethink the whole idea of upgrading my Vista machine.
God, schmod. I want my monkey man!
Oh and good luck running XP SP3, anti-virus and current versions of software satisfactorily on a Windows box that is 7 years old
I'm running Windows XP SP3 on a Dell PC with an 866 MHz Pentium III CPU, made in the fourth quarter of 2000. The only significant hardware upgrade was from 128 to 384 MB of RAM. I have a ClamWin weekly scan as my non-invasive antivirus. And I run current Firefox, current GIMP, current Nestopia, and current CC65.
I wonder if it would be possible for someone like Dell to allow people to choose to have linux and windows pre-installed except leave windows on a 30 day trial. Then people are free to try out linux and see if it suits their needs. If they then decide they need windows, they can purchase a key for activation.
Some of the smaller businesses may not be able to enjoy the software as soon as they'd like
Translation: They'll buy it anyway, because MS could shit in a box and small Businesses with little to no technical support or knowledge would still feel forced to buy it because they don't know they don't have to.
Obviously, M$ must be creative to recoup their Vista development costs. But if it's true then I guess Dell are afraid they will have to cut down on their own costs/profits, just to keep the total price down.
"Some of the smaller businesses may not be able to enjoy the software as soon as they'd like,' Ward said.'"
If by enjoy you mean rip of a band-aid really fast.
And history repeats itself. Anyone remember WindowsME?
You mean that piece of shit OS that was supposed to revolutionize the consumer OS but was little more than a tainted bloated version of Windows 98 but served as a springboard for the very little revolutionary but usable Windows XP? ... Oh the irony.
I don't believe Vista is new coke, it is a product of Microsoft's hubris.
POKE 36879,8
What option will people have when their "free" Windows 7 beta runs out? The path of least resistance at that point will be to pay whatever Microsoft says its worth.
Beating vista is like going to the special Olympics where a super buff no disability person beating a quadriplegic blind person....
Obvious troll eats a bag of dicks.
Microsoft!!!!!!! Please sell Windows 7 at $29.95!!!!!!!!! Wake up and smell the coffee! 2bit geeks like me are already dual booting Ubuntu and Windows. I have accounts at slashdot and digg so I am geeky enough not to buy music or porn and know just enough to build a website and create software with free stuff! SO WHY THE H would I pay big $ bill for an OS??? The real world is this: 20 year olds that I know think that anyone that builds a website is working for Microsoft (not kidding). Microsoft is so generic that it is pitiful. These people point at the tallest building in a city and say that it is Microsoft. Now back to my point: If you charge $X00.00 dollars for Window Heaven, then why would I buy and download it when I already have what it does on my system? If you charge something simple like $20 bucks or so (like drug dealers know to do) then you will have a sell and I may pass the advice to my not a clue friends that they can get this system that works. Enough said!
The spent millions just on a four-note "startup sound" that apparently most of us will never hear. Seven years in development down the tubes.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
MS's latest move might bear out my theory about why they sold those bonds:
MS sold bonds at a rock bottom price because they know those bonds are going to get massively devalued when inflation goes bonkers over the next couple years.
MS is raising its prices ahead of this (hyper?)inflation scenario so that they can continue to turn a reasonable profit. Once they set the cost there isn't really any going back. Inflate the costs now for the OS that has to sell for at least a few years.
That's my theory.
-
In reading these comments, its amazing how many of you actually believe that Dell (or any other top-tier PC maker) pays anything even near retail for any Microsoft OS.
I know for a fact that back in the days before Vista when XP was still king that HP was typically paying Microsoft $35 a copy. I'm sure Dell gets a similar discount, and I'm sure they aren't paying any more than $60 or so a copy now.
In addition, the makers of all that shitware that comes preinstalled on your new PC pays Dell a fee for putting it there. That's another reason that getting Linux on a PC from Dell would not necessarily reduce your price.
This sounds to me like Dell wants to raise prices and increase their margins (which are currently very thin in the PC industry), and this is a cool way to blame it on Microsoft. They simply don't have the balls to say "Dell needs to make more profit".
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
"though in just about every other aspect the operating system is beating Vista,"
Beating a dead horse: It's a feature, not a bug.
No one has to get the latest Windows7? Oh, yes, because we hate Vista we need to buy Windows7. Nonsense. Hardware prices are going down, and so will software. And here also Linux comes into play. Desktop Linux does not need to become a reality it is just necessary to strategically invest in alternatives. Asus is a perfect example.
Images aren't happy when you change motherboards, even less so when it's a chipset change.
Yay me!
...though in just about every other aspect the operating system is beating Vista...
Definitely the marketing slogan they should come out with "Better than Vista, almost better than the Swine Flu!"
Enjoy the software? Enjoy the Software! I AM GOING TO FUCKING KILL BALMER, as soon as i finish toking on this EULA
#turns back to keyboard. types r-u-n-o-n-c-e in breathless anticipation.
#fade to next scene, a forlorn penguin wandering aimlessly somewhere in antarctica, mutters under his breath... What do I have to do? Give this shit away? I'm never gonna get off this island. Looks towards the heavens... STEEEEEEEEEEEEVE!!!
A lot of them are compiled with /LARGEMEMAWARE. Even on a 32bit system, that'll hit 3gig
Yay me!
The biggest effect will be on Netbooks. Windows did not start making up a large portion of netbook os sales until the price for xp was lowered. With this sudden rise in prices you will see a move back to Dell's Ubuntu.
Squeeze it too hard, and what you have is not so much a cow as a pile of hamburger...
That's OK, I'd trade my piece of shit Vista install for a good hamburger. In-N-Out would be great, or maybe Five Guys.
You could have adware, spyware and trialware for Linux distros... if there were a market for them.
Maybe the Linux community doesn't really want the hoi polloi using Linux.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
some of the free pc's forced you in to 2-3 year dial up plan. Also at the same time DSL and cable was starting to come out and many people dropped aol and dial up at the time for dsl / cable.
The 4GB limit is only because MS won't licence you for more, there is no real physical limitation in the OS, as demonstrated by this copy of 32bit Vista running 8GB of ram. /the moar you know
Dell's not about to incur the wrath of the beast like that. They know which side their bread is buttered on. Besides pissing off Microsoft, the more machines they sell with Linux, the less money they get from the crapware loading.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
"Discoverability & Mindshare"
As your flawlessly prototypical perfect Linux candidate, I'm no turbo newbie to Windows, but like culture shock, some things irrationally scare me with Linux, because of Inverse Beginner's Luck.
Make a utility that acts like GoBack (later diluted by MS as SysRestore). Let me know that if I explore I have a chance in blazes of recovering.
My last install, I tried to update from Dapper Drake to the next LT release, per "advertized", ... and blew up X.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
That assumes they'll ever enjoy Windows 7 doesn't it? If they didn't buy into Vista what does this Ward fellow think Windows 7 will have that'll make folks like it? Less expensive hardware requirements? Dream on. Better security? (If it hasn't already been said by someone from Microsoft, I can almost guarantee that you'll soon be hearing that "Windows 7 is the most secure version of Windows to date".) Don't count on that. (I give it less than a month before a major virus/worm makes the rounds of the new Windows 7 systems.) Lower support costs? You're kidding, right?
Seems like some of these analysts already know that Windows 7 is going to be a turkey.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
I don't think it will be too bad of a crapshoot for too many years more.
I deliberately went to Best Buy looking for a cheap system I could blow up windows & put linux on. I didn't want to "waste a real system" (don't laugh) knowing my talent for making my own disasters.
It worked. Printer, basic landline dsl, sound. Fine by me. Any further problems I had were my fault in other categories.
I'm developing a theory of "lynchpins". There are specific things that "almost work", and maybe the expert knows the tricks.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
So let him address the guys who already "won the lottery". My hardware works. It's the software side I'm screwing up.
Now I know to ask him for help; not sure about you.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
This is just Dells message to Microsoft telling them they will not eat a higher wholesale cost. They are swinging the bat they have to make MS lower the licensing costs.
Good for them.
Chuck
You know, I think "average users" are one fresher step down in the WTH department.
I think they "know what Linux is" now because the world is too connected. They may know nothing ABOUT Linux, but the noun is there. Probably "that whiz kid" or "that dude at work" uses it and they looked on.
I'm wagering it's now actually attempting to use Linux is scary as hell for these folks... because it is for me and I'm used to being a midge above average on Windows. Suddenly on Linux I can't do a thing right.
Parallel poster is right - it's no longer about 7 pieces of hardware failing. Let's suppose that's all straightened out. (I bought a POS from Best buy, a midline Samsumg printer, and did fine.) Those guys addressing the Support Side are right - let's call it "every user has 100 questions". It's an educational process. Each time you get X user up and running with their hundred questions, the next fella steps up, and 30 of them are the same, 70 are new ones.
It prob. feels exhausting to those in the know, but there we are.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
$1000 in support. Seriously.
I see ads on hulu for "education foundation - Rwanda". That's here. These guys are not going to win quick bucks.
Someone has to take a beautiful long haul approach with SERIOUS cash for twelve years to finally bust up Microsoft, and then people can talk quick money then. Once Linux/variant mentality of FreeOS gets REALLY locked, we're fine.
We're just still struggling because of MS's blackly beautiful dirty plays 15 years ago.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say supporting Linux is HARD. (Thus a cost factor to deal in.)
Ultra-low Windows support can be handled by "script-teams" in centers. Usually after they get past "so you have Windows XP, you checked the cables, you rebooted, and the device manager looks okay", they escalate you. Their purpose is to burn the low hanging 12 minutes getting the brutally low end 5 data points to get a real incident going.
With Linux the fabled "average" user with no vocab is going to start with "my computer doesn't boot."
"What version of Linux do you have?"
"I don't know."
"Who makes it."
"I think it's that uBuntu guy."
"Okay, do you know which version?"
"No."
"Can we find out?"
"It won't boot."
(Hosed.)
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Yes, Dell is not saying it will cost X more per copy, because it will not.
Dell has more of a problem with restrictions on their bundles/spyware they load systems with and the kick backs they will lose with Windows7. Companies like Dell that bloatware their computers are more of a bane to the computing industry than anything MS has even done to harm the industry. PERIOD.
After Vista was released and we deployed a bunch of 'business' class Dell Notebooks, it was freaking insane the amount of Dell support, and 3rd party bloatware we had to stip off the systems.
Dell doesn't like MS we know this, and they make money from this bloatware, but really does this help users, especially when they were selling Vista Business with this crap on it?
And the Home units from Dell are even worse, as they were shipping out 512mb systems with Vista Home for a long time, which is bad enough as Vista really needs 1GB to run as fast as XP, but the bloatware Dell had on the system was consuming almost 260mb of RAM at startup.
No wonder the average consumer was POed and thought Vista sucked. I would have too if I wasn't in the industry and knew better. Which leads to the next point, Dell does have IT people and they DID know better, so why did they do it? Just for the extra kick back bucks at the expense of screwing their own customers.
So here we are again with Dell looking at the Bloatware kick backs they will be losing and going, dang, we have no way to get our crap kick backs, so they are once again speaking out.
It is just like the old anti-trust lawsuit, where Dell was more than willing to put nails into MS on the cross, yet they were the ones that 'opted' for the better conract OEM rates to do exclusive bundles, where lower end OEMs like the one I was at did not, and could sell Window-less systems.
These were 'exclusive' contracts that dated back to the old days of IBM that was still done in the software industry where an OS or piece of software was bundled at a lower rate if it went out on all the systems sold. Dell took the offer and then blamed MS for forcing them to save the 5-10 $ per copy it saved them. (Most of the big OEMs took the offer at the time, as they HAD NO INTENTION of shipping anything but Windows on the systems anyway. Yet when it came time to shove MS on the cross for 'daring' to offer these contracts, these same OEMs wanted more pricing control from MS and did exactly what they threatened and used the contracts against MS that the OEMs had enjoyed for many years. (While also keeps similar contracts with Wordperfect and other companies at the time they were testifying against MS for 'forcing' them to save the 5-10 bucks and do guaranteed bundles. Geesh)
I was with a smaller OEM, we paid about 5-10 $ a copy for Windows over what Gateway,Dell,HP, etc were paying MS, but we got the same levels of support from Microsoft. Microsoft offered us the contract, but we said no, cause we had some OS/2 and UNIX clients (Talking 1991-1999 here), so we paid a few bucks more for Windows, which was still cheaper than OS/2, and cheaper to support than UNIX, and we gave our customers the choice the industry somehow mythically believes didn't exist at this time.
MS didn't force Windows on all the name brand OEM machines, the OEMs did, and they are the ones that screwed people and dominated the market, it just happened they were selling Windows on the systems and designing around the Windows hardware model. -Go Look at 2D acceleration in the 90s, it was all based around Windows drawing and GDI.
Microsoft has already informed OEMs about the addition to more rigourous anti-virus abilities in the existing Win7 'Defender' product that is extending with MS Update to make anti-virus a thing of the past on Windows. This means that the kick back from Norton or McAfee could hurt their per unit sales, and this is just ONE example where Win7 will hurt Dell.
In this example, can you REALLY be POed at MS for tightening security and reliability of their product? Even on SlashDo
I hope that the next time your Linux using parents decide to go to walmart/bestbuy to get a printer they have the foresight to see if $linux_distro supports it.
I have yet to see a generally available device that linux supports which windows doesn't. I'm not the in business of playing "geek squad" for my family.
Maybe it's time to roll the dice.
I bought my printer on specs. At printer prices it would have been more value lost in labor with potential models trying to see if four successive versions of uBuntu (for example) support $random_printer.
Also I think this is price related. a $40 junk printer almost certainly is not. I wonder if the $200 models are more likely to magically just work.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I did not always resent MSFT. In fact as recently as 12 months ago I shelled out more than $300 to install Vista Ultimate 64 bit on my Dell computer. I was eager and excited to get the latest MSFT gadget. The reality was indeed disappointing. What is worse is that MSFT wants to charge me now another $300+ for a bug fix to an OS I already paid for. It's like going to the auto repair shop with your 1 year old Mercedes only to find out that the car is a lemon and that you have to buy a whole new car for the full sticker price. This in the same city were Porsches, Ferraris or Jaguars are free. Thanks but no thanks. I am writing this on my Ubuntu 9.04. I've had no problems installing it, and few problems using it - most of them quickly solved by a quick google search. No more MSFT for me, thank you, I've had plenty.
I wonder how many people will continue using XP after W7 comes out? They continued running XP after Vista was released and they'll continue running XP after W7 is released. Interesting that the local Microcenter makes a big deal of still having XP systems available (large font saying "XP Pro!" prominently displayed on each XP system).
Obviously, Microsoft will pull the support plug on XP at some point to force people off of it. They will claim it's due to cost and, since it generates no new revenue but costs money to support, they will be truthful to some extent. Sad commentary on their newer products that they have to resort to that to get people to "upgrade."
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
hopefully once btrfs gets integrated properly there will be a 'snapshot' function before upgrading. don't like the new version? go back to the previous snapshot instantly and you are where you left off. would also be handy for large package installs/removals/upgrades etc.
We're talking about walking into Walmart and buying a random printer, not the latest and greatest from HP/Lexmark.
Joe/Jane Average want to do what you did, walk into a store and buy a computer device based purely on specs, whether it's a printer/scanner/all in one. Just like supporting chipsets and such, anything that is "more mainstream" is more likely to have support. Though over the life of a computer, if my folks have to buy the most mainstream products which in the case of HP/Lexmark are more expensive than the savings due to not having to buy windows, starts to diminish.
Ward continued, 'In tough economic times, I think it's naive to believe that you can increase your prices on average and then still see a stronger swell than if you held prices flat or even lowered them
Gee, ya think?
oh my god... it's full of stars!
Mod this up, it's true. Oh, and whomever modded this down.. I hope your computer dies a death of fire, or at the very least shocks your ass. ;)
Life was hell, then I discovered Linux...
Endorse Linux!
Theres nothing that would make the margins better for Dell, HP or anybody else pushing Windows boxes than selling Linux openly and with some ads. If Microsoft even hints at giving that OEM worse pricing a quick visit at EU and US justice would slap Microsoft silly. Just look at Asus and the extensive rebates they got, plus pure money down their pockets.
Even if selling Linux in itself would be a zero sum game the bargaining power would lower the total paid for Windows OEM licenses much more. If its highly successfull, screw Windows! Current attempts has been hidden, half baked and virtually impossible to find. A serious attempt at selling Linux would be very interesting.
If the various OEMs could stop acting like a bunch of girls stabbing each other in the back for that hunk Microsoft and band together they could really run the show again for the first time in ages.
HTTP/1.1 400
I do not want to be a wiseass or anything, but what innovations are people looking for from an OS? Things that normal users could figure out and actually use?
Yes, Vista was botched and memory hog and was slow, but Windows 7, as far as I can tell, hits every note for my own usage. It is smooth, drivers just install themselves when I plug in things, and it looks pretty.
Convince me I should not be satisfied.(ok thats impossible, im a really relaxed guy, but at least show me the light)
It's the applications that make a difference when you use Gentoo to compile everything for your hardware.
This is probably where you get your "information": people saying they use Gentoo because it compiles for their hardware and it's faster.
You don't have any information, just conjecture.
Kernel optimisations are of little effect. Why would it when your kernel doesn't use more than a couple of % of your CPU?
I liked that with the Amiga...
At the start of the manual, they showed you how to make a copy of your Workbench disks, and then said that no matter what you did with your new copies, worst case you just make new copies and start again.
You could do the same on Linux by creating a nonroot account...
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
A fantastic link. Thanks, AC.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
Having used Linux for the past 3 years now I've grown comfortable NOT paying for an OS. I'm running XP and Win7 RC in Virtual Box on my Linux box. I find absolutely nothing compelling about Win7 to cause me to fork over anything to own the final.
I just can't stop wondering, isn't Vista owner entitled to a free upgrade to Windows7. Looks like a ploy to sell as many Vista machine as possible before releasing Windows7...
Microsoft were slapped in the face when consumers refused to hand over wads of cash for Vista like good little consumers. Microsoft spent way longer in their release cycle to get Vista out, and nobody wants it. They lost a LOT of income they would have been able to count in advance (judging by previous patterns). Microsoft need to make that loss up, so the logical option is to make Windows 7 more expensive, with more optional addons charged extra. Taking the previous model off the shelves also helps force the consumers hand when they won't buy your latest offering on merit.
;)
Personally I hope Microsoft REALLY jack the price up, make people aware that Windows costs money. They've gotten away with the illusion that Windows is free for far too long. The higher they jack the price to punish consumers, the more attractive Linux becomes to people who may not have considered it otherwise. We are in the middle of a recession right now, this will have a heavy bearing on how much people spend, and what they spend it on. Keep it up Steve, make sure not to give in on the three-app-only Starter Edition; it's a winner
People have been giving Linux away for free for years. But people choose to ignore that and stick with XP because they actually like XP. Microsoft needs to stop pushing a new OS on people, they should concentrate on making XP better.
Now if we could just get Dell to put a little drop down option in its OS & Productivity Suite selection to have an option for "Ubuntu & Open Office (subtract $200)" on all of their computers
This is the world of mass market retail:
There are marketing costs. There are inventory costs. There are costs for returns, service and support.
Maintaining a dual inventory and support structure is really, really, expensive.
Linux delivers little or nothing in after-market sales.
Linux is firmly anchored in the retailer's mind as a bottom-feeder.
The Ark of the Covenant would be easier to find than the mid-line OEM Linux PC desktop bundle with monitor and printer.
WalMart has never, ever, been able to consistently position OEM Linux at $50 below Windows.
$200 is fantasy.
If your employer has a volume licensing agreement with Microsoft, MS Office is yours for the price of the media plus S&H.
If you have student ID, it is $60.
Office Home and Student retail boxed with a three seat license is $90-$125 with a three seat license.
The real expense is consumables: ink and paper.
Having a friend that bought a Dell Studio (before they went to selling Ubuntu on Inspiron only)...
It ships with Fluendo and Power DVD Linux installed.
My friend immediately went to medibuntu and installed all the free equivalents--he paid for the licenses after all. He then then chmod 000'd all the powerdvd stuff.
This is being done to drive system sales NOW. People will avoid buying a Vista system and just wait till win7 hits. With Dell saying win7 will cost more it will motivate people to buy now instead of waiting. They will now think, well, i'll get a free upgrade to something that is ostensibly more expensive in the near future, so i'll buy now.
This is just a publicity stunt asking Microsoft to lower their OEM price....possibly their OEM price for W7 is higher than Vista....
Is this really a bad thing, I actually see this being a positive outcome. I've been using releases of Windows 7 now for a while and I have noticed quite a few problems with it that could easily be fixed by any normal level headed programmer.
Dell has never really sided with the customer in mind, They say they support Linux installs to but when you really ask them what Linux installs they support that in fact just use the cookie cutter install which is not satisfactory under and circumstance.
Even if they do move forward with this idea to use Windows 7 there just introducing a new section of customer support.
How about instead of installing a OS with so many problems, that really is no better then Vista, they learn how to install Linux properly using maybe a stage 1 Gentoo install and send that out.
It's free and it can be upgraded for free when ever needed. All Dell would have to do is to add in a script to do all the user required update wise. Future more it could give schools a chance to teach a fair computer curriculum, I know I sure didn't get a fair one when I was in school.
As for businesses well I don't know why they still use Windows anyway, it's really an OS built on mistake thats been patched into barely working. Wouldn't it make more sense that when you have important files and data you'd want to see it secure and stored in a stable manor, doesn't seem like a hard problem to fix.
Dell should just scrap Windows support and save the customer any cost for OS install, besides it would help the world not hurt it. Say no to Windows Dell and open your computer to possibilities not limit it by mistakes!
Thanks
LinuxOverWindows
Darrel Ward pulled a slight-of-hand here. Here's what he said:
"If there's one thing that may influence adoption, make things slower or cause customers to pause, it's that generally the ASPs (average selling price) of the operating systems are higher than they were for Vista and XP,"
and
"I can tell you that the licensing tiers at retail are more expensive than they were for Vista."
That Average Selling Price he mentioned... how is that calculated? Without knowing that, and knowing that retail prices will be higher... there's no indication that OEM prices are going up. Which is what Dell pays.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
So when will the Apple "Windows 7 Tax" commercials start rolling out?
I'm just sayin'....
"You can't really dust for vomit" --Nigel Tufnel
I got two PCs that way. They were not completely free, but the $300 rebate from my 2-year-contract with MSN dropped the price to a mere 25 dollars.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Leading spray paint manufacturer needs to improve sales so they design a new paint line that....
1. Has prettier colors.
2. Costs more (to pay for aforementioned color improvement)
3. Doesn't run, or at least runs slowly.
4. Comes in a hard to open can to protect children from opening it.
Sounds like M$ operating system roadmap.
"You can't really dust for vomit" --Nigel Tufnel
Windows 7 might be more expensive, but after what I experienced today, I think I'll happily upgrade from XP to 7 when the time comes. Even at a higher price, it's STILL have to better than the Mac I've been using. A friend of mine just gave me his old Macintosh, and I thought that was cool, because I used to have a Quadra in the early 90s and loved it.
But alas, I was fooled. This OS 10.2 computer refuses to run even the most-basic websites like youtube.com due to Flash not being installed. I tried upgrading but ran into problems with Internet Explorer (crashed), Safari 1.0 (refuses to download any software, even later versions of itself), and Firefox 3 (crashed during installation - I'm stuck using FF2). When I finally got-around to installing the Adobe Flash Player, I was told I need to upgrade to 10.4, and it refused to run.
Wonderful. Like I have an extra $150 laying-around to buy OSX 10.4. No wonder my friend "gave" this Mac to me - he didn't want the hassle. C'mon Windows 7! No matter how bad you might be, you certainly can't be as bad as this Mac I'm typing on.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Linux is notoriously finicky when it comes to hardware, windows has always been more forgiving, and even Vista at release had fewer hardware issues than Linux has always been stuck with.
In my anecdotal experience, Windows and Linux can both be finicky with hardware. Upgrading Windows frequently makes too-old or too-new peripherals useless (usually due to driver issues). Linux (and BSD) drivers typically, though certainly not always, continue working or get updated across operating system upgrades.
My company uses just one image for at least 50,000 pc's, maybe more, about 10 different manufacturers and about 20 models apiece. So, yeah. It's harder to set up in Vista, but it is doable.
Which doesn't jibe with this:
I can't wait till Windows7 gets cleared for my environment so I can start playing with the server side tools, since Vista will never be approved and the server tools don't work for making XP images (they work for deployment though).
So the server tools don't work for making XP images, Vista will never be allowed on your 50 000 PCs, but everything will work great on yet-to-be-released Win7? Sounds like marketing talk, not experience. In case you're young, MS is famous for saying their next version will be so much better, old-timers have learned to wait for proof.
If you try to go with imagine for Linux without a mass deployment tool to save time (and therefore money), you are talking hundreds of images to deploy Linux vs just one for Windows. I guess you'd have to be rolling your own mass produced images (like I do, heh) to understand how much manpower that is going to add to the sale of a Linux PC.
So mass deploying Linux without a mass deployment tool is time consuming? Well, yes, but then so is mass deploying Windows without a mass deployment tool. You would have to explore mass deployment tools to understand how much manpower they save.
But his point is that you can't EXPECT that with users that you sold a computer to. He's a person who makes money by selling computers. He'd like to sell Linux computers. He's tried to do so, but he runs into the simple problem that his customers don't WANT Linux computers (or for that matter Windows computers), they want computers that will work "all the time - every time" (or at least the vast majority of the time) with whatever was cheap this week at Walmart or Best Buy. What ever game they picked up, whatever printer they saw on sale, whatever the cheapest USB TV tuner they happened to see. They don't care about software freedom. They don't care about stability under load. They aren't interested in doing research before purchasing whatever dodad in the computer aisle strikes their fancy.
And if you are the person that sold them the computer, when they can't use $dodad, it's YOUR fault. No, not really; but hey, you sold them a 1 year warranty. It is obvious and clear in their minds that worked with the latest USB controlled back scratcher is part of "working" and they would like you to "fix" their computer as you "agreed" to do. Are they right? No, probably not, but if enough of them think they are it can hurt your business, not to mention being really irritating when you have to field the calls. There's even the chance of a lawsuit from someone with too much time, too much money, or a kid who's a lawyer. For you, it a matter of choice to support your family and friends, for a systems integrator it's their job.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
"his customers don't WANT Linux computers (or for that matter Windows computers)"
Yes they do, even if they don't know to call it Windows. Obviously it's not a good idea to sell a Linux computer to someone who doesn't know what an OS is. Obviously! When it suites someone's needs and saves them money, then it's a good fit. If that's only 1-5% of users these days, so be it.
Better yet, just have Linux as an option, and let your customers tell you when they want it. Still too scared? Whatever, just let Dell and HP do it.
We all know no one wants Vista. So who cares how it does vs Vista? Lets see how it does against XP as that's a test that matters.
about what they say here maybe you should review your own past threads to see if there's something other people saw that you didn't.
Because sometimes, you know, I don't get the trick the first six times either.
Help stamp out iliturcy.