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I know that Dell has been marketing the Ubuntu systems as intended for "Home and Home Office". And I know that they play LOTS of games with their prices, selling the same system to different market segments for surprisingly different prices.

For example, compare the specs of the $699 Home Inspiron 1501 to the $549 Small Business 1501! The latter costs $150 less but has the EXACT SAME SPECS except for a smaller battery (a $30 upgrade). So you can basically get a 20% discount by buying the small biz version... Then again, sometimes the promotions for the home systems are better. The deals and discounts are CONSTANTLY changing, so I go to edealinfo.com, which does a good job keeping track of them.

The thing is, in my experience Dell doesn't care if individuals buy Small Business systems or vice versa. Heck, they don't even care if some random person buys a computer through their Employee and Affiliate Program. For example, a few weeks ago I got a really good deal on a new Inspiron 1501 by buying it through the affiliate program... I just gave them my home CC number and mailing address, and sure enough the computer arrived a week later. :-)

I think the difference might be ordering online vs. ordering over the phone! When you order online, there appears to be absolutely zero verification of whether your home/business/affiliate purchase is going to the right place... but over the phone there may be some stupid bureaucracy in your way. To the OP, I suggest trying to do your order again online!

I know that Dell has been marketing the Ubuntu systems as intended for "Home and Home Office". And I know that they play LOTS of games with their prices, selling the same system to different market segments for surprisingly different prices.

For example, compare the specs of the $699 Home Inspiron 1501 to the $549 Small Business 1501! The latter costs $150 less but has the EXACT SAME SPECS except for a smaller battery (a $30 upgrade). So you can basically get a 20% discount by buying the small biz version... Then again, sometimes the promotions for the home systems are better. The deals and discounts are CONSTANTLY changing, so I go to edealinfo.com, which does a good job keeping track of them.

The thing is, in my experience Dell doesn't care if individuals buy Small Business systems or vice versa. Heck, they don't even care if some random person buys a computer through their Employee and Affiliate Program. For example, a few weeks ago I got a really good deal on a new Inspiron 1501 by buying it through the affiliate program... I just gave them my home CC number and mailing address, and sure enough the computer arrived a week later. :-)

I think the difference might be ordering online vs. ordering over the phone! When you order online, there appears to be absolutely zero verification of whether your home/business/affiliate purchase is going to the right place... but over the phone there may be some stupid bureaucracy in your way. To the OP, I suggest trying to do your order again online!

I have access to all the FOSS systems under both home and small business; go to Open-Source Desktops or Open-Source Laptops under the "Desktops" or "Laptops" menu bar, which is across the top.

http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /nseries_nb?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~ck=mn

just order online and save a bundle?

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/l inux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

However, do even the home customers get support for Ubuntu boxes?

As far as I could tell from going to Dell's Ubuntu website here http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/l inux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn and then setting up a computer it appears at the end where you select your warranty and service that the extended warranty is available for the hardware just like it is for Windows boxes. So I would say yes, home customers do get support for Ubuntu boxes and yet business users cannot.

That would be why they offer redhat support and SuSE support as well.

The full list of supported linux can be found here. Just because one guy wants to buy one machine that doesn't come with Ubuntu, everyone is up in arms. Dell never claimed that they were going to offer it on every machine. They're damn careful what they offer for business machines in general, and you can always get a business class machine with no OS.

Buncha fricking sheep. Dell's making a good effort on linux.

That would be why they offer redhat support and SuSE support as well.

The full list of supported linux can be found here. Just because one guy wants to buy one machine that doesn't come with Ubuntu, everyone is up in arms. Dell never claimed that they were going to offer it on every machine. They're damn careful what they offer for business machines in general, and you can always get a business class machine with no OS.

Buncha fricking sheep. Dell's making a good effort on linux.

www.dell.com/linux still works too, and you can see that they have links to "dell and novell, dell and red hat, dell and ubuntu" as well as "Workstations for Office" and "FreeDOS Desktops for Office", among others. So, I understand that the point of the article was "i wanted to support Dell's decision to sell Ubuntu", but if the end goal was simply to have a Dell system that shipped with Linux then the guy simply missed all of the options that are there.

I still don't think there is anyway to find that page without directly going to dell.com/linux, which is sad.

http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /nseries_nb?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~ck=mn

For less than two months worth of cable you can get a machine significantly newer than your 7 year old PC. If you're that strapped, maybe you should reconsider whether you really need "all the HBO's, Cinemax's, Showtimes, Starz, Encores etc including On Demand channels."

Just saying.

Try again. The Complete Care contract does not cover intentional damage.

http://www.dell.com/content/learnmore/learnmore.as px?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&~id=complete_care&~line=noteboo ks&~lt=popup&~series=inspn&ref=CFG

Try Dell. Not you would want a Dell if you have an Apple, they are like antonyms. Apple is about quality, Dell is quantity. Dell's website is no different than their servers, pure crap.

"You might want to look quickly, in the event it does get taken down."

Or you could just repost it somewhere. Wheee.

Things most people know already:

1. Small business is better than home and home office - Small business typically runs a few dollars more than the home office, but you stand a better chance of getting domestic tech support rather than non-native English speakers. As an added perk, small business promotions are occasionally better than home.

2. Play with the web site - There are many different pricing packages for the same product throughout the various sections, typically three or more per segment. If you're buying a Dell soon, configure a unit from a link off the main page, from the product listing on the drop down and from the "As Advertised-Newspaper" drop down. Configure the same system each way at the home, small business and the Direct (kiosk) site (http://www.dell.com/directstore). It is very likely you will end up with nine different prices.

3. Extended warranty for laptops - Do it for as long as you feasibly see using your laptop, and include accidental. Two years is typically the lifecycle from "new product" to "no longer produced/no more refurbs" though YMMV. Once your model is off the refurb site, drop it. Voila! New laptop. The standard warranty will not cover any screen defects.

UPDATE: Current Dell rep says: If a system is no longer shipping a used/refurbished is always sent, though the refurb should be equal or better as far as hardware is concerned. As of this writing if a system is exchanged, via either Complete Care warranty or concession, and the system is still a currently shipping model a new system is to be sent.

4. Extended warranty for desktops - There is nothing in a low end desktop (non XPS) that is worth the price of the warranty should you have to replace it. Only pick it up if you have absolutely no clue what you're doing once the case is open.

5. Tech support phone - If you do go with the home/home office/direct route, tech support is outsourced (duh!). The tech support instant messenger typically provides a calmer, more understandable conversation due to the fact that accents are taken out of the equation. Think back to high school Spanish. It was always easier to translate the foreign language you were reading than if you heard it. Same concept applies here.

6. Tech support web site - If you're having a common problem, hit the product forums (however crippled they may be now). It is very likely your question/problem has been resolved before, and usually a domestic tech rep posted a solution there.

7. Warranty Repairs - On all but the two lowest warranties (90 day and 1 year limited), warranty repairs will be done in the home. The repair techs are only required to replace the broken part. They are not required to do anything else. If they replace your hard drive, they are not required to reinstall your OS or drivers. Most will do it if you're nice, but don't expect it. If you're clueless, there are tutorials all over http://support.dell.com/ that tell you how to do it yourself.

UPDATE: Current Dell rep says: Also with desktop machines at home service is the only option. Notebooks on the other hand may have a return to depot or an at home service contract.

8. OS Backup Disk - For over a year now, Dell has required you to purchase your Backup/Reinstall Disk. Order this with your machine. Once your Dell is delivered, it is a pain to get the disk at all, much less at a sensible price. If you do not have this disk and your hard drive dies, at home warranty repair will not be able to get your PC running once the drive is swapped without selling you a new copy of your OS.

UPDATE: Current Dell rep says: Dell no longer requires the purchase of the backup disk. They are included with every computer that ships with a Windows OS. On the subject of hard drives, if your drive fails within the first year of purchase you should be sent an imaged drive that will c

My bad! Here it is again, the price is $469 now: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?oc=bddwcbf&cs=04&dgvcode=ss&c=US&l=EN

Oh, and it is in a "bookshelf"-size case as well. Not as small as a Mac Mini, obviously, but smaller than a microATX tower, definitely.

BASELINE, CHEAPEST MACBOOK: $1099
CHIP: 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
RAM: 1 gig, DDR2 533mhz
DRIVE: 80 gig
VIDEO: Integrated Intel with 64 megs (not a typo!) shared memory.

DELL INSPIRON 1501: $799 (from Dell's site
CHIP: Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 2GHz
RAM: 1 gig DDR2 533mhz
DRIVE: 120 gigs
VIDEO: ATI Radeon Xpress1150 256 megs dedicated memory

So where does Apple win? Dell just gave me a technically superior machine -- 64 bit processor, larger hard drive, insanely better video card. The Dell also comes with Vista Home, if you're wondering -- I didn't cheat and go for some freeDOS or anything. For three hundred less.

Oh, the Macbook is smaller. Whooptee do. That doesn't matter at all to me; it's purely subjective if it matters to you, but is it really worth 300 more dollars and a crappier machine?

This was just the first random Dell I saw, so don't give me wah-wah-wah Dell sucks or Inspiron sucks. When I was shopping for a laptop I actually did consider a Macbook until I saw how much more I could get from other manufacturers for less money -- Toshiba and HP had similar prices for similar machines. (I ended up with an HP.) IBM's Thinkpad came very close, but the specs were close enough that you could call it a borderline case and the Thinkpad came out like a hundred dollars more.

There is no $300 Mac because Apple does not want to produce bottom of the barrel, low end, bare minimum Macs and use AMD Septron processors with a single core, Intel chipset video adapters with shared memory, generic DVD drives and memory, etc to cut costs so low that it fits that $300 budget.

Graphics: Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory

Check at: http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/format.a spx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&deviceid=3841&libid=13&release id=R133063&vercnt=2&formatcnt=0&SystemID=INS_PNT_E 1405&servicetag=&os=WW1&osl=en&catid=-1&impid=-1 Dell does have the resource CD online, as an ISO. Also, if you call and say you lost it, or don't have it, policy is to replace it if it's under warranty, and to check with level 2 support about replacing it if it isn't. Stop talking out fo your arse.

Why do they need to create something for Linux when they already have something better? Dell already has bootable diagnostic software. Hell, with most models all you have to do is hit CTRL+ALT+D (not DEL) during POST and it'll run a basic hard-drive diagnostic test. Why complicate the matter with running diagnostic software under your native OS when you can avoid it completely?

thats actually not true....
They ship a small diagnostic cd with an outdated linux kernel and xorg with their poweredge servers to configure the little lcd display, read logs, run checks, etc. They don't even offer a windows version of most of this.
to get this cd log into dell support and get the systems management cd iso.
Open this configuration in support: PowerEdge->2850->windows2003, and it will give you a link :)

Searching google also found this:
http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/ps3q05- 20040302-Jayakumar.pdf

They know how to make the support, they are just not being serious about linux support on the desktop.

Dell doesn't seem to be advertising this thing at all, and the fact that you actually have to jump through some hoops on the website to even see that the option is available, makes me think that reason 2 isn't entirely impossible either. http://dell.com/ Not sure which dell.com you're talking about, but the first thing I saw while going there is a big advertisement saying "By Popular Demand Ubuntu has Arrived." After refreshing a couple times, I noticed that this isn't always what's displayed, but the fact that it's one of about four advertisements displayed on the front page suggests that they are doing anything but avoiding advertising it. Try refreshing a few times, they're advertising it just as well as anything else. . .right on the front page.

and run into a hardware problem, how is Dell supposed to troubleshoot?

By telling you to reboot and hold down ctrl-alt-foo until the machine beeps and boots their troubleshooting utility from their hidden partition. If you wiped out the hidden partition, they'll tell you to restore it from the CD, or better yet, you'd have gotten a bootable CD with it that had the utilities on it.

It's one thing to tell you that if you made any changes you have voided your warranty, it's another not to give you a warranty in the first place.

You bet your ass it is. I bought a new Dell PC for my gf. Do you think she knows (much less cares) what "kind of" Windows it runs?

You can get XP on Dells. You just have to shop in the small business section. Lookit.

Am I concerned about this announcement? Yes, for the people's lives that will disrupted to simply increase the stock price. But, not for the engineers. We're still hiring.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.a spx?sku=A0741431&cs=19&c=us&l=en

That has 8GB and all of the features you list.

It ain't that hard: http://store.apple.com/

Or, for the short sighted who will claim "an Apple isn't a PC!" (though it is): http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAV3&s=dhs

(I'm hoping there's no session-id at work there, but in any event Dell has plenty of Linux machines available now).

GOSH DAMN I NEEDS SOME MOD POINTS!!! I almost spit coffee on my keyboard!

An apple may not look like a PC, but you open it up and it'll begin to look real familar to you (except for the lack of disorganized cables).

It ain't that hard: http://store.apple.com/

Or, for the short sighted who will claim "an Apple isn't a PC!" (though it is): http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAV3&s=dhs

(I'm hoping there's no session-id at work there, but in any event Dell has plenty of Linux machines available now).

Show me how you build a Raid 50 of 32 sata or ide drives.

Well, the dell md1000 is a 15-disk SATA/SAS array that can do that. It has redundant power & redundant controlers. It can be combined with 2 additional MD1000 arrays for a 45-disk system. Not bad.

also show me a SINGLE sata or ide drive that can touch the data io rates of a u320 scsi drive with 15K spindle speeds.

You are correct, u320 will be faster, but not much faster. And if you short-stroke the big sata disks (only use the fastest part of the disk, the outside tracks), you can get really big speeds, very close to 15k scsi disks.

witha giant SQL db you want... no you NEED the fastest drives you can get your hands on and that is SCSI or Fiberchannel.

In the real world, companies have budgets. And the budget doesn't allow for what you want.

Yes, they do. When I enter www.dell.com, I get redirected to http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/default.aspx?c=b e&l=en&~ck=geo.

<beavis voice>This sucks</beavis voice>

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/l inux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs/
Hopefully this will still work.

I had no trouble finding the link on Dell's main page this morning. On the right side of www.dell.com scroll down and look under the "Essential Links" section. "Open Source PCs".

Or for the extremely PEBKAC limited here is the link.

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/u buntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=anavml

Yes really. The image may be a FreeDOS screen capture, but when you look at this image, which is their top banner, you'll see the word "Ubuntu" appears twice, and the word "FreeDOS" does not appear at all. They make Ubuntu look like a CLI-oriented system.

It's quite simple, really, unless you're the kind of user (as most probably are) that only notices image links. Here are the quick, easy steps:

1) http://www.dell.com/

2) click on Solutions for Home & Home Office on the right hand side

3) highlight either the Desktop or Notebook drop down menu at the top of the page

4) click on Open-Source PCs

5) complain some more on /.

Where's the ATI or NVidia cards? All we have now is the Intel cards for the E1505N, and right now they're only good for 2D.

It's rather hard to get good 3d in ANY laptop. They're really not overwhelmingly designed for 3d applications, as a rule. Dell does sell the XPS Laptop line (the top of the line XPS is less of a "laptop" and more of a "portable desktop"), and the Precision Workstation Mobile line have a bit beefier cards.

Further compounding this is the fact that ATI and Ubuntu do not really work well together. I'm not sure about Nvidia's drivers, but I've never been able to install Ubuntu on a system with an ATI card in it -- it just locks up.

the Linux base model laptop will have dedicated video

Do you mean that it will have dedicated video and that integrated video will be unavailable? That would seem to be false. I haven't been following the dellbuntu story very closely, but this configuration page has the laptop coming with a GMA 950 (integrated) video card, with the option for an upgrade to a dedicated nvidia card for $79.

Well... they all offer 64-bit if you upgrade the processors, but the default processor for the laptop is a Pentium Dual-Core (rebranded Intel Core Duo with half the cache). You have to pay about $100 extra to get 64-bit and virtualization. Whereas for $500 they offer the Inspiron 1501, a Windows laptop, with the Turion 64 X2 TL-50 processor which has both those Linux-hacker-friendly features: http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /inspn_1501?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~ck=FamCustom

http://www.dell.com/linux

1. There's an "Ubuntu Has Arrived" image that cycles through with the other advertisements on Dell's front page. This takes you to a page where you have the choice to shop for Ubuntu PC's and FreeDOS PC's.

2. The Ubuntu/FreeDOS PC's are not available through the obvious route (ie, by navigating through "Notebooks for Home and Office" -> "Inspiron" -> "Inspiron E1505", for example). There's an entirely separate navigation tree for Ubuntu orders.

3. Fortunately the navigation tree for ordering non-Windows PC's has an easy-to-remember URL:

http://www.dell.com/open

Which is good for spreading the word the old-fashioned way.

The point is that jumping through some hoops that it does work on the Toshiba.

With a little bit of work Ubuntu could be made smart enough to tell me that the only way my machine will work completely is to possibly install the restricted drivers.

And certainly makes for a better experience for the novice.

You can be as defensive as you want about Linux and going about finding just the right hardware for the operating system.

When I solve problems with hardware I try to solve my problem, by hardware that works for me, that is right for me. My computer choice should be based on my needs not the operating systems limitations.

Because the fact is, Dell's linux offerings are -more- expensive than the windows offerings. This would be fine and dandy if say support was included, but all you're really getting from Dell is the "privilege" of not having to argue when you call up and say 'my XXX is broken' and they say 'did you download our diagnostic software?'. I configured nearly identical computers and the linux laptop was $60 more. The windows laptop had an ATI card in it to boot, something most manufacturers would charge $100 extra for, so given the roughly $150 difference, it appears Dell is at it's old game of charging the linux users more, because they can.. and if the program fails, oh well! we tried!

Everybody keeps talking about how the linux PCs are cheaper. Guess what - they're not. Dell loves to play these ridiculous games with the pricing. They have really high 'regular' prices, which are then marked down with sales that are -always- going on. Check out http://www.dell.com/content/topics/promo.aspx?c=us &cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~lt=popup&~promo=q2wk0304_inspn_ discount. This is the heart of the problem. Notice under the E1505 how there is one line for DNCWEL1, where there are several for DNDWEA. At the low end, the discounts are comparable. As you add things to your machine, the discount goes up for the windows machine, but remains at the constant $200 for the linux machine.

Notice in the ARS article how they talked to somebody at Dell who 'confirmed' that the E1505 is less expensive. That's some great journalism there, ARS! But I guess they're just following the lead of the mainstream press which has forgotten to be skeptical. Anybody can go to the website, configure two identical computers, and see that when you start adding things, the windows computer does come out cheaper.

If Dell was serious about linux (and still wants to continue their pricing charade), they would have the same coupon codes apply to both.

After following your links... and then going to actually customize the Vista E520, you realize that there is no monitor included in that $369 price. Then you customize the Linux E520n and realize it comes with an 17" analog flat panel monitor... which when you remove it, makes the Linux E520n $409. Yes, it is still $40 more, but I don't care to go through the list to make a true apples to apples comparison. In fact, you can't, the E520n comes with a Core 2 Duo E4300 and the Vista E520 comes with Pentium D Celeron. Okay, since I'm on lunch... I found the Vista E520 model that offers the Intel E4300. It starts at $679 with the same monitor (remember the E520n starts at $599). Removing the monitor brings it to $549. Vista E520n with Intel E4300: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DDCWAA3&s=dhs - $679 Ubuntu E520n with Intel E4300: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAV3&s=dhs - $599 Still not apples to apples comparison.. but close than FUD.

After following your links... and then going to actually customize the Vista E520, you realize that there is no monitor included in that $369 price. Then you customize the Linux E520n and realize it comes with an 17" analog flat panel monitor... which when you remove it, makes the Linux E520n $409. Yes, it is still $40 more, but I don't care to go through the list to make a true apples to apples comparison. In fact, you can't, the E520n comes with a Core 2 Duo E4300 and the Vista E520 comes with Pentium D Celeron. Okay, since I'm on lunch... I found the Vista E520 model that offers the Intel E4300. It starts at $679 with the same monitor (remember the E520n starts at $599). Removing the monitor brings it to $549. Vista E520n with Intel E4300: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DDCWAA3&s=dhs - $679 Ubuntu E520n with Intel E4300: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAV3&s=dhs - $599 Still not apples to apples comparison.. but close than FUD.

Looks like its randomly on the dell front page. I just hapenned to get it on the first try:

Dell Ubuntu Ad

The headline price for the different operating systems are the critical steps in deciding which one to go down and look at.

Vista E520 - http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetail s.aspx/dimen_e520?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19 - $369
FreeDos E520n - http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAN3&s=dhs - $679
Linux E520n - http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAV3&s=dhs - $599

The first pass, 'Damn, that Linux is expensive, even more expensive than Vista', the reflexive response is that these are the same models and to assume that you customize up, not down.

The headline price for the different operating systems are the critical steps in deciding which one to go down and look at.

Vista E520 - http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetail s.aspx/dimen_e520?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19 - $369
FreeDos E520n - http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAN3&s=dhs - $679
Linux E520n - http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAV3&s=dhs - $599

The first pass, 'Damn, that Linux is expensive, even more expensive than Vista', the reflexive response is that these are the same models and to assume that you customize up, not down.

The headline price for the different operating systems are the critical steps in deciding which one to go down and look at.

Vista E520 - http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetail s.aspx/dimen_e520?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19 - $369
FreeDos E520n - http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAN3&s=dhs - $679
Linux E520n - http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAV3&s=dhs - $599

The first pass, 'Damn, that Linux is expensive, even more expensive than Vista', the reflexive response is that these are the same models and to assume that you customize up, not down.

And just in case newbies are only looking at the pictures, they're sure to use images of machines that are not running X11, just to scare off any would-be Ubuntu wimp.

Linux should not be thought of as a Windows replacement, and Dell is sure to avoid the potential for careless customers to blame Dell for selling them what they accidentally ordered. And I personally am content for Linux to remain an OS "for advanced users and tech enthusiasts." But I know a lot of people in the community have viewed Dell's decision to sell Ubuntu as being one big step toward conquering Microsoft. There will be nothing but disappointment, as and Dell has ensured that Linux looks as frightening as possible to the average Joe.