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Dell PCs with Ubuntu Are A Little Less Expensive
Chandon Seldon writes "Contrary to many earlier reports, it turns out that Dell's prices for its Ubuntu PCs are cheaper than similar Windows Vista PCs for all three Models. Ars Technica reports: 'So it turns out that not including Windows saves the consumer $50 from the regular list price. This amount is not too far off from what a large OEM like Dell would pay for a volume discount for Windows Vista Home Basic (the regular OEM price is about $95). Many value PC sellers try to make up for the cost of a Windows license by bundling demo and trial versions of software such as AOL (affectionately known as "crapware"), for which they receive money from software companies looking to increase their distribution levels. Dell is no exception to this practice, although on their web site it allows customers to select the option of not including various applications.' For direct comparisons, Nat Tuck of Umass-Lowell has put together a simple page showing prices for Ubuntu and Windows-based PCs."
What will be the most important marker of Dells little Linux venture is product placement. If these linux systems end up on a back page people may not hunt for them.
After all the comments that Dell should sell Linux machines, and that they shouldn't charge more for them than the Linux one, it is time to put your money where your mouth is and start buying these beauties. I, for one, know that if they ever offer it here on good ol' Europe I'll be buying one as my replacement laptop. Not only buy them, but recommend them for people that are buying their first computers and never had contact with Windows. If they are going to give any serious use for the computer (that meaning, no mass marketed games), they will not miss anything on Windows. Peace.
#1. It's $80 and why send money to Microsoft if you aren't buying Microsoft software?
#2. It's Dell. They have nationwide support. If you move, you can still get support.
#3. It'd Dell. They move a LOT of boxes. This will be incentive for those hardware vendors to support Linux to get in on this market.
windows users have the option of configuring their PC so it's more expensive. that makes me feel a lot better about the price of a prebuilt with Ubuntu.
no wait, no i'm still pissed that the default windows prebuilt would be cheaper.
What you pay for is garanteed hardware compatibility.
If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
Have you ever noticed all the trial software on a dell computer? That is advertisment paid to dell that is partially used to bring down the cost. So without that the price of the computer would be more as Dell isn't making money off of the advertisment. At least thats what I'm told.
Once you start adding the price of office and other commercial software with a solid foss alternative the gap widens even more. Of course, that's if you don't count the cost of your time spent managing your computer and its software. Depending on how familiar you are with one OS or the other, that could be a lot. Most importantly, linux should not be promoted as " just" a low cost alternative to windows. Keep in mind that it's also higher quality ;) (i can hear the hackles rising from here)
#!/usr/bin/english
Well, getting the same laptop at $599 instead of $649 is a nice little savings. It's not huge. The real reason that this is important however is that there needs to be some incentive for people other than those of us who already use Linux to buy a Ubuntu PC from Dell. So now the choice is you can either a.) stick with the familiar Windows system or b.) save a little cash. If they were priced the same there would be very few new people trying the Ubuntu PCs and sales would be too low for it to really be profitable to Dell to offer them at all, and they'd probably eliminate them from the lineup again in a year or two.
That's my take on it anyway.
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
Where's the ATI or NVidia cards? All we have now is the Intel cards for the E1505N, and right now they're only good for 2D.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
Dell has being offering Windowless PCs for a long time, but only from their US website.
Just wondering if this is also the case for the Ubuntu deal?
Those who are not so technically minded and buy the thing candidly thinking that they will come home and install World of Warcraft or Photoshop and use iTunes will be having a hard time with this...
So really, why don't pay, say 10 USD more to get Windows and THEN if you like to be cool, get the Linuzz pain and install it?
I can now buy a 64 bit computer with 4 gigs of RAM that is guaranteed to work with Linux for $1000. This will allow me to have one machine that can comfortably run 1 desktop-friendly virtual machine and several developer-friendly virtual machines using Xen or VmWare. Last week I would have to wonder if my $1000 "bargain" would have caused me lots of grief because of Linux incompatibilities. Dell just eased my mind and made a grand off of me.I must say that I'm really skeptic about this whole thing.... but who knows... After all we all know that THIS is the year of Linuzzz on the desktop.
http://nyamenation.org/
I'm glad that Nat had to use Vista Home Premium in most of his examples -- I imagine that most people would want Home Premium if they were going to use Vista.
I also wonder what the price difference would be if XP Media Edition or XP Pro were still available.
The nice thing about Ubuntu for the home user is that most everything you need is either available or easy to install. I have been using Ubuntu dual boot with XP Pro on my laptop, and the only complaints I have is that wireless support could be better (although this has improved with 7.04), and that Linux drivers are not available for everything. I'm glad that Dell is offering Ubuntu as an option -- I think Vista could use some competition, especially on the price.
Beware of Sleestak
"Who fsking cares" is exactly the right question. My parents, grandparents, and many of my peers who know very little about computers don't care what operating system they are using on a computer. To them, a computer is a computer just the same, regardless of the operating system. The bottom line for them is the costs involved. How reliable is the computer? How long will it be until another computer must be purchased? How much up-front cost is required for the initial purchase?
To my mother, who I am proud to say has been using Linux since Ubuntu 6.06 was released, Linux seems more reliable. She still clicks on those goofy advertisement images that look like they have real buttons, but guess what - her machine doesn't need to be reformatted within a week after that takes place! So in her eyes, the machine is more reliable.
To my grandmother, she only wants to be able to talk to family via email. Why does she need to spend any more than the bare minimum? Will this machine be more likely to be usable until she is no longer physically capable of using a computer? That is more likely to be true with Linux than Windows while keeping the OS up-to-date.
And why not take this a little further... What if I'm a small company in need of some "thin client" computers. Why should I pay even a little extra for an operating system on 20 computers, when I can get it for free and completely avoid those fees (which would be a significant price difference, no doubt).
(Though this does not apply to the dell desktops directly, these could be used for this purpose...) John/Jane Doe wants to start a new business where a web-based application with a database is required. Why should he/she need to pay for a Windows server environment and Microsoft SQL Server licenses? The benefit here is clearly that a good deal of additional money can be focused on the business requirements, and not initial licensing costs.
Of course, I could present many more real-life examples I'm aware of... While that may not be a majority of the market, it is a solid start to appeal to these constituent groups, and it could to be quite lucrative long-term. Your needs are one thing, but I'm merely suggestion not being egocentric and suggesting we think of others' needs instead. Doing this will clearly benefit the entire community long-term.
Those who are not so technically minded and buy the thing candidly thinking that they will come home and install World of Warcraft or Photoshop and use iTunes will be having a hard time with this...
That's kind of unlikely, given that the windows and linux versions are not on the same page, so you really have to *want* to buy a linux machine. I'm sure there will be a few people out there who will do what you describe, but, really, anybody that dim would have problems with any operating system.
#!/usr/bin/english
who's not seeing these products for sale at dell.com ? Also, as someone else has mentioned, a measly $50 saving is pretty worthless unless you're trying to cram the price right down. I which case you'll be buying the cheapest computer. Which they're not offering Ubuntu on; clever.
FGD 135
this is the main reason I'm havn't switched. I put together an old dell cpx for my new business and wanted, really wanted to just install Ubuntu on it and be done. You know, start the biz on open source from the start. But my primary application was going to be dreamweaver which doesn't run on linux. I looked for a good linux alt, but there isn't one. the best i could come up with was NVU and it doesn't come close. So I installed an old copy of 2000 on it and went on, wondering just how much longer i will have to wait to finally rid myself of M$.
Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something.
I went to configure an E1505N laptop. With a 2.0 GHz processor, 1 GB RAM, and 120 GB HD it totaled just under $1000. At that price, I'm more inclined to get the comparable MacBook ($1300) which is better in a number of ways (thinner, slightly faster CPU, built-in camera,...) and can run Ubuntu through VMware. Hopefully, Dell will break into the linux market with these offerings and eventually have a larger/better selection in the future.
And one way they achieved compatibility with Ubuntu was to pull out the modem!
As far as I can see, there's no way to configure a modem into the non-laptop models.
Could you please post the computer (model, additions, etc) that you purchased? I am in the market for a new laptop myself, and am looking for one like you mentioned here (similar requirements, for VM's, etc). While the Ubuntu Dell laptop is too underpowered for my liking, I am considering a Dell to support them for their Linux support...
Thanks
First it's
"wahhhh no OEM vendor will put *nix as an option on machines, whaa we have limited support, waahhh if we were more mainstream regular users would see how great *nix is"
Then it's
"Yaaaa go Dell, offering us what we want, give us the choice and we will show you that there is a market for linux."
Now it's
"Who cares if dell is offering linux, i can install it myself for free anyway or I can put together a better computer with bubble gum and bailing wire and make it run off a watch micro-processor. Regular people don't want linux blah blah blah"
You folks need to make up your minds. I think this is a great thing personally. I run both Windows and *nix systems and I used to be all about putting together my own PC's but now I have a life and other priorities rather than piecing together a custom system or digging up the information necessary to install some obscure video driver to make my selections work with my distro. I welcome being able to buy a pre-build and compatible *nix system from a vendor whom I can choke and yell at for anything gone wrong (hardware wise).
And you know what? That's what average folks want. In order to adopt linux as a home platform in Joe 6-pack's home you need that brand, you need that support and you need that gaurentee. Yes some people are afraid of changes and upgrade issues but its only more aggravated by the whole "the Internet is your support" mantra. Joe 6-pack doesn't want to read a 5 message boards to find out he needs to hand install some driver or app to get the feature he wants or to fix his machine. Granted a properly configured *nix environment should be rock stable but Joe 6-pack has been living in an MS world and needs to feel comfortable that he will have the same level of support he always has had.
Right now dell is offering these machines on a limited basis and is targeting the market segment that asked for these machines in the first place. If we don't step up to the plate and show Dell that this is a worthwhile idea then it will be scrapped before it has a chance to get going.
Personally I've been in the market for a new box and getting one ready to go with a warranty and a single support department to deal with makes the decision a lot easier and a lot less time consuming.
Yes I did save some money over a windows machine but that was never really the point of getting Dell to sell these things.
"Don't mess with him, he taunts the happy fun ball."
...when they're offered for sale in the UK. It's a no-brainer. Dell's laptops are usually priced competitively and the $50 saving will add to that competitive edge. But, most of all, it'll take away the anxiety... Will the wireless work? Will I struggle to get the screen resolution right? Will the onboard ethernet show up? What about suspend?
In the light of this announceent, it'll be hard for me to justify buying my next laptop from anyone other than Dell.
check out system 76. all ubuntu prebuilts. and i hear their support is excellent.
Why is 50 bucks such a big deal?
Well, if for no other reason, it's interesting because the ol' "Microsoft Tax" canard is one of those foundation building blocks of MS hatred. How many times have you read, right here, that even if a major direct-to-consumer dealer/manufacturer WERE to ship boxes with Linux onboard, that Teh Evil Micro$oft would still be making sure that machine sold for MORE than an OEM-Windows-equipped box would. This is interesting because it lets some of the hot air out of that particular troll.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I would just like to step away from the conversation for a moment and just focus on one thing. DELL is selling Linux! This is a milestone for FOSS and I just wanted to point that out.
Shh.
When I looked at the same configuration for the laptop 1505N vs 1505 the price difference was about $100 but was explained more by the lack of the ATI graphics card in the linux model. The hardware differences are that the linux model does not include the ATI graphics card and includes the more expensive Intel wireless card.
Tharkban (It is a signature after all)
I don't care very much about saving $50. What I care about is that it is Ubuntu Linux that just plain works out of the box.
"Linux is only free if your time is worthless." Remember that? Well, that goes for Windows too: you need to figure the cost of your time into the cost of Windows. For me, the real savings here is to just buy a laptop that will just work, and I won't need to buy antivirus and antispyware software, and run them faithfully, and administer that Windows box.
I love Ubuntu because once it's set up, it just works. Now we can buy computers already set up. Sweet.
Now you have a reasonable alternative to a Mac for relatives who aren't computer savvy. Anyone who is intimidated by administering antivirus and such, this is perfect.
People are already commenting on how everyone should be able to choose between Vista/XP or Ubuntu so they can see the $50 savings on the configuration part of the process. That is not a good thing for Dell/Ubuntu because it will only cause problems. This deal was made to sell Ubuntu Dells to people who wanted that, not to give people a money saving option.
Know this...A ton of people buy dells everyday and out of those, many are buying their first computer or are generally considered novice users. Now Dell is also a sort of bargain type place, so people may be more frugal, not all, but certainly a good amount. Stay with me here...
So now you have people customizing their computer, choosing Ubuntu to save $50, $80 whatever it is, getting the computer at home and then having the realization they just got what they paid for. They will not be happy. Dell will have to field that support call from people who are CLUELESS to what Linux or an OS is. Many of those support calls will end with, "you probably want to buy Windows" and as a result, that computer user just had a nightmare experience and will never consider a Linux distro again. This is not a 'what if' scenario, this will happen and happen often if people are given the choice right off like people here want to see.
The point is this, if they list Ubuntu at $50 cheaper than windows to everyone with soliciting the Ubuntu option, it will be the end of this deal and it will not take long. The only way it would work is if Dell could manage to turn a profit from selling a machine loaded with Ubuntu, fielding all the support calls and then selling Windows at a higher cost to unsatisfied customers for a net gain that is worth that effort. So please, stop asking for equality in the OS choice screen during customization. If you get greedy like that, the whole program is probably going to go under. Be happy they are selling the boxes to you, not to your neighbor who does not know how to spell Linux.
Invexi - a Phoenix, AZ based web design and web development company.
Thanks Ok, it's $1000 because I already have a monitor and because of the typical Dell instant discounts.
Dell Dimension E520N
Upgrade Processor to most expensive option Intel® Core(TM) 2 E6420 Duo Processor(4MB L2 cache,2.13GHZ,1066FSB)
Select Ubuntu 7.04 w/o support
Select no monitor
Upgrade to 4 gigs of RAM
Select standard HardDrive 250 GB
Select DVD Burner upgrade
Select Standard Graphics option
Select Standard Sound Card
Select No Speakers
Total $909
http://nyamenation.org/
The headline price for the different operating systems are the critical steps in deciding which one to go down and look at.
l s.aspx/dimen_e520?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19 - $369x ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAN3&s=dhs - $679x ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAV3&s=dhs - $599
Vista E520 - http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetai
FreeDos E520n - http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.asp
Linux E520n - http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.asp
The first pass, 'Damn, that Linux is expensive, even more expensive than Vista', the reflexive response is that these are the same models and to assume that you customize up, not down.
ah, shucks, I was hoping to spend some of my mod points on this thread. But I had to respond. You may not recommend Dells to your friends, but I, like you, have a lot of people ask me for recommendations. I will now specifically tell them about Dell Ubuntu machines and recommend them highly. Unfortunately, there aren't any good deals in my local area to justify a local pc/notebook recommendation.
I think what's going to happen is that Windows geeks will buy a Dell machine with Ubuntu installed, wipe the drive, and install a pirated copy of Windows.
Oh, I misunderstood you - I thought that was for a laptop w/ 4GB. I thought it was too good to be true! 8-)
Cheers
Does it run Linu... oh.. nm...
This is mentioned a lot, but I've never seen an estimate of how much they get paid. I assume it's a small fraction of what they pay for an OEM Windows license, but since it's free money (i.e. there's no user backlash) they continue to visit this on their Windows buyers, and likely soon on their Linux buyers too.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
"How many times have you read, right here, that even if a major direct-to-consumer dealer/manufacturer WERE to ship boxes with Linux onboard, that Teh Evil Micro$oft would still be making sure that machine sold for MORE than an OEM-Windows-equipped box would. This is interesting because it lets some of the hot air out of that particular troll." I don't believe that when people said that Microsoft would force PCs that are not being sold with their OS to be at least as expensive as the ones sold with their OS that they were trolling. It has been true in the past but things are changing for the better. The parent post seems to be saying that the whole thing is a non-issue and we should be talking about it. I couldn't disagree more. I've noticed more and more on slash-dot a growing attitude (or maybe strategy) that the obvious advancement of Open Source shouldn't be talked about. It makes me feel like there is a "STFU" campaign. Like proprietary software vendors are loosing ground and they don't want anyone to look at that fact.
Hopefully you'll only have to wait 1.5 to 2 years is my guess. Especially if the Dell boxes start to take off.
competition is a good thing. I hope this works out well. The company I work for is a big backer of Linux, but I am stuck with WinXP because that is what I am told to use. I am sure that some of the apps I have to use would not work. Ubuntu distro is soon to be on my box at home and my employer is promising training in Linux this October.
If I was deep this is would be profound, if smart then wise, if a poet then verse. Here it is, you judge!
I went to the page a UMass-Lowell, and then priced out the Dimension E505 at Home Premium and 1GB ram at $429, and $399 w/ Home Basic. I don't see where the extra cost he reports comes from. (I confirm his other prices -- it costs roughly $50 to add Vista to any of the others.)
I tried to find it this morning too.
1. There was a page on Dell's site saying displaying photoshopped pc's with a brown ubuntu splash screen, but the link took you to freedos systems. (?)
2. Search the phrase Dell linux and one of the links will take you to PC's with Red Hat.
3. Going through Dell's front door www.dell.com gets you absolutely zero indication they have Linux, much less ubuntu as an option.
I found the link to buy a ubuntu/dell pc in an article. This suggests some combination of typical corporate inertia and maybe, just maybe a Microsoft distribution agreement that discourages alternatives.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Yep. And even better than having the drivers available is having the drivers PRE-LOADED!
Talk about the pot accusing the kettle of not checking things out!
I am not a tech type person. The idea of dealing with finding hardweare drivers for a laptop to install linux on my own is just scary. All the same when I read the EULA for Vista I knew I would not be using it. I need a new laptop soon and had resigned myself to paying for an apple just to avoid Vista and have an OS that was still supported. I suspect that these laptops are for people like me, savvy enough to use with the new interfaces, but not yet read to install Be happy, this means I wont show up and beg for help at your local LUG.
will go nicely towards games to play on those PCs. Oh wait....
Tagline could be "Ubuntu: you'll die before it does."
http://www.mhall119.com
Do a desktop Ubuntu install. OpenOffice gets installed by default. I would much rather teTeX, thanks.
Yes, I know package management is just a sudo apt-get away.
World of Warcraft runs under Wine and Cedega, but to be honest if you are looking for a gaming machine you are probably unlikely to go for a machine with a GMA950 card anyway ( thou again, World of Warcraft does run on it, albeit with lower performance than other cards ). Unless you actually work in the publishing industry the GIMP is probably a good enough replacement for Photoshop, and if you really do need Photoshop and nothing else then you are probably well aware what you need to run it. iTunes is a problem, but to be honest that is due to the DRM and there are alternatives, such as http://www.emusic.com/, which are both cheaper and give you songs in a more portable format.
I wouldn't be overly concerned. In worst case scenario you will end up buying a Windows license, so worst comes to worst you pay a bit more than having windows pre-installed and you get a computer without the OEM crapware. Quite a few Windows users would probably prefer that tbh.
I go to www.dell.com and I do not see anywhere to select Linux. Can anyone even get to it from the main page?
It may be a bait and switch. "Here you can get a Linux desktop by following this link." Posts link on a few sites, "Look we only had 50 sales, no one wants linux."
Can anyone get to the page from the main dell.com site?
Customer: My computer won't bla, bla, bla
Dell says: Reinstall from the restore CD and hangs up
"choose between Vista/XP or Ubuntu so they can see the $50 savings on the configuration part of the process"
They get an equivilent GUI desktop for roughly $100.00 less.
"getting the computer at home and then having the realization they just got what they paid for. They will not be happy"
The get a GUI, a browser, email client, word processor and media player.
"Dell will have to field that support call from people who are CLUELESS to what Linux or an OS is"
I would guess that they get less support calls for Ubuntu as given hardware failures Linux is more stable over the long term. It doesn't go sluggish like Windows does and you have to reinstall every six months or abouts.
"Many of those support calls will end with, "you probably want to buy Windows" and"
The should do something like the one button restore Levovo offers. Or put a base diagnostic system that can be invoked at boot time. Besides which there's only one thing more futile that working in a call center, that is working in one.
Im seeing a lot made of the price difference
davecb5620@gmail.com
What if people start buying with Ubuntu to save [50-150]$ then download a copy of Windows using bittorrent and install it ?
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
It looks like Dreamweaver 8 runs perfectly well under Wine.8 2
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=34
You might also want to try Quanta as an alternative to Dreamweaver:
http://quanta.kdewebdev.org/index.php
http://www.mhall119.com
For common people, none of these things apply, many more programs work in Windows, so why go to Linux? and they really couldn't care less about M$.
The development of Ubuntu is really fast, another year, maybe two and there will barely be any problems at all, after that what it will come down to is proprietary software support, which I think is what this move by Dell could possibly drive forward, as an artist I'm looking directly at Adobe, if their software worked on Linux I wouldn't have to dual boot with XP.
"we've got trenchcoats and bad attitudes" - John Constantine, HellBlazer
i thought about WINE, but my little piii 500mhz cpx probably couldn't handle dreamweaver 8 under wine. it barely meet the specs as it is. I'll have to check out Quanta, i missed it somehow in my search.
Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something.
that 7% comes at the cost of some functionality I would guess.
I currently Have a dell laptop I duel boot.
the Integrated intel card is shit. and almost any 3D app goes boom or has masive drawing errors.
I highly suggest dell upgrate there
"Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950"
on the laptops to a 3D card with good drivers.
Nvidia comes to mind.
--meh--
Honestly, even if I wanted a Windows box, I'd consider buying one of these and then ordering an OEM Windows disc. The math works out to paying about $25 more and ending up with a Windows box without any of the crapware.
'Course, I'd do at least a dual boot anyway, but this might still be a good option for users who want a clean installation of Windows.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
... But you can get even better deals on Dells by hunting around at Edealinfo or Fatwallet. I just ordered a Dell laptop yesterday that ended up being significantly cheaper than the e1505n, and yet it comes with Vista Home Premium (it was some kind of educational/affiliate/whatever discount that I found on Fatwallet).
Also, it bugs me that none of the Ubuntu systems have AMD processors! Most of us who run Linux want 64-bit these days, since 64-bit "just works" under Linux, and gives a pretty good performance boost. And among Intel Desktop processors, only the Core 2 Duo support 64-bit, while *ALL* the AMD processors now support 64-bit, from the lowly Sempron on up.
Anyone know if Dell will offer an AMD system with Ubuntu?
My bicyles
Wine isn't an emulator exactly, I don't see speed differences between Wine and Windows.
Is Wine an emulator?
The Ubuntu machines are promoted on the front page. Dell.com
A popular domain, that
Dell is going to think there's no pleasing the FOSS crowd if you keep nitpicking
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
http://www.mhall119.com
A better, or at least more interesting strategy would have been if Shuttleworth had Dell miraculously agree to install Ubuntu anyway, despite if the box is preconfig'd with a paid Vista OS, and make it dual boot. Now THAT might provoke some interesting consumer responses. In fact, given MS's history of monopolistic inclinations, the requirement for a dual boot box, with an additional free OS (besides Windows) as a non-crapware extra, might be viewed by many as an appropriate answer of atonement by our favorite corporate overlords.
"He's using a quantum encryption scheme! That'll take hours to break!"
The Linux machine price is actually way way lower, even though this difference is not being mentioned on the Dell site.
Consider this extra cost of Dell/Windows..
(1) Within 1st month the machine is taken into a computer shop to be "de-Delled" meaning that all the crapware, adware, spyware, annoyance-ware is removed. Cost = +$150 US.
(2) Every four months the computer is taken into a computer shop to have spyware, viruses, rootkits removed. Cost = +$450 US / year.
So for a Dell/Windows that is owned for 3 years, the actual cost is $1,500 + the $50 for Windows = $1,550 more than for same machine running Linux.
sudo apt-get install mythtv mythplugins
There you go. It's not installed out of the box, and you have to enable some of the additional repos (check a box in the Synaptic settings), but I'd say that's worth a $30 difference. Admittedly, the mythmusic plugin is really not that well done... so far. I'm hoping it gets some big upgrades in the future.
But mythweb, mythDVD, mythgame, mytharchive and mythvideos are all really handy to have.
Here's my test, it requires two pc's.
Windows test:
1. Go to www.dell.com
2. View home page... No Linux. Anywhere.
3. Refresh browser, Linux promotion appears. ???
4. Click on home/home office. No Ubuntu. Anywhere.
5. Click on small business. No Ubuntu. Anywhere.
Linux test:
1. Go to www.dell.com
2. View home page... "By popular demand. Ubuntu has Arrived"
Clearly, they are using some kind of platform detection. Maybe it's just the browser user-agent.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Ubuntu Repositories have the Free VMWare Server and Player -
So - you could run Windows from a VMWare session!
Anyone tried this yet?
I've been running (K)Ubuntu for a while now on some lower-end hardware, and find that Bluefish (http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/) answers all of my web development needs. It's lightweight, responsive (except on some remote-editing edge cases), has a great UI, and is just generally fun to use.
Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing. -- Wernher von Braun
WARNING WARNING: DANGER jomas1 DANGER
even if you want to run basic 3D/OpenGL apps with an Intel card you might have issues.
I can not effectivly run any 3D/OpenGL app on my Intel graphics card system when booting to linux. This is a historical problem with poor driver support from Intel.
I strongly recoment the Upgrade to the Nvidia Graphics card ($50) Nvidia traditionally has good binary driver support for linux.
and hey Tuxracer is fun!!!
--meh--
It's the ease of mind the buyers get that their machines cannot be hacked easily when connected to the Internet, or their Web surfing being "phished".
PROCESSOR Intel® Core(TM)2 Duo Processor E4300 (1.8GHz, 800 FSB)
OPERATING SYSTEM Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04
MONITORS No Monitor
MEMORY 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
HARD DRIVE 250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
OPTICAL DRIVE 48X CD-RW/ DVD Combo Drive
VIDEO CARD 256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
SOUND CARD Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
KEYBOARD & MOUSE Dell USB Keyboard
WARRANTY AND SERVICE 1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day
Mouse Dell® 2-button USB mouse
Network Interface Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet
$459.00 Not Including Shipping
Not all that bad really. And there is a 3d card. Not the best but its something.
They don't offer a Linux model configured comparably to the $369 Vista model, but by customixing donwn you can get the Linux version to $409. So for $40 more than the Vista model you get:
CPU: Celeron D => Core Duo
GPU: GMA X3000 => GMA950
RAM: 512M single channel at 533 => 1GB dual channel at 667
Disk: 160GB => 250GB
Net: 10/100 => 10/100/1000
Apart from the GPU, the Linux version is better in every way... but if you're looking for an entry level computer you're really looking for the unavailable $329 E520 with Ubuntu.
On the other hand, trying to configure a Vista box to match the Linux box, the best I can do is not $459, but $549... the following things are included in the price and can't be removed:
* Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD
* Starter pack - Yahoo! Music, Corel Photo and Dell Games
* 56K PCI Data Fax Modem
* 6 Months of America Online Membership Included
The difference between the Intel X3000 and the older Intel GMA950 in the Linux box is presumably balanced by the 10/100 ethernet versus the 10/100/1000 in the Linux version.
... But you can get even better deals on Dells by hunting around at Edealinfo or Fatwallet. I just ordered a Dell laptop yesterday that ended up being significantly cheaper than the e1505n, and yet it comes with Vista Home Premium (it was some kind of educational/affiliate/whatever discount that I found on Fatwallet).In market economy, you can send an important message to the vendor that you don't want Windows, and hopefully hardware and software makers catch the drift. Windows reminds me of the 5-year plans of Soviet Union where government dictates what the people need, and produces one OS for everyone.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
I agree. I still use Windows quite often, for the sake of getting otherwise unavailable for Linux programs with ease. I have the speedy Ubuntu system for tasks I just don't need Windows for (which are a lot of tasks), and launch Vista for primarily gaming and some multimedia and web based tasks.
I have a copy of Ultimate I acquired for 60$, so the ability to now get a new machine I already have Linux on would be splendid for me, personally.
I'm a realist. Why force all tasks on one operating system when you can use each accordingly?
Still more testing on my kubuntu laptop suggests the following:
1. Dell's linux system chooser doesn't work with konqueror. Not a show-stopper and it may very well be my version of konqueror/kde.
2. In konqueror, the home page www.dell.com has the ubuntu promo.
3. In firefox on the same kubuntu laptop, no mention of ubuntu anywhere.
Very likely then, they are using user-agent to choose the home page and child pages.
The main point being, it's _still_ not easy to buy ubuntu-equipped Dell.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
WARNING WARNING: DANGER jomas1 DANGER
even if you want to run basic 3D/OpenGL apps with an Intel card you might have issues.
I can not effectivly run any 3D/OpenGL app on my Intel graphics card system when booting to linux. This is a historical problem with poor driver support from Intel.
I strongly recoment the Upgrade to the Nvidia Graphics card ($50) Nvidia traditionally has good binary driver support for linux.
and hey Tuxracer is fun!!! Thank you
http://nyamenation.org/
Yeah, I agree with the idea of sending a message. But it has to be "worth" sending that message: would I rather pay $600 and get a Windows license that I don't want, or choose from a more limited selection, and pay $800 to get a nearly identical system without that Windows license?
Of course, I made the choice that is most personally advantageous to me. I suspect this is a big reason why desktops bundled with Linux haven't caught on: small companies that try and sell Linux-based desktops don't have the same purchasing power and economies of scale as behemoths like Dell and HP which bundle their systems with Windows. So us Linux geeks buy the systems with Windows bundled and just discard it. We save money, but we pay Microsoft as well, so we're not saving as much money as we could in theory.
I think this is a pretty bold and impressive move by Dell... I just hope that they extend it across their entire product line. If the Customization options for every Dell system included a choice like, "Operating System: Ubuntu Linux (subtract $50/$100 from price)", you'd bet there'd soon be a *lot* more people running Ubuntu. Maybe a rough adjustment for those users and for tech support at first, but I believe the Linux community would come out far ahead in adoption in perception in a short amount of time.
My bicyles
And among Intel Desktop processors, only the Core 2 Duo support 64-bit
Try again. My two year old Dell GX280 desktop with a bog standard Pentium 4 supports EMT64.
Only people who know what they're looking for will find the systems that offer Ubuntu, so this won't be a huge seller. That's good because as good as Ubuntu is, it's not the time for it to be mass marketed. The problem has been stated before, too many peripheral devices don't have Linux drivers, too many applications given out at schools and in cereal boxes, etc. won't work on it, which turns people off Linux. But Dell offering Ubuntu is a great start. This is one major step toward manufactures of including Linux drivers and more cross platform apps.
i belive things with intel graphics chipsets have really improved on linux recently. Afaict there are now even opensource drivers with 3D support for at least some of intels graphics chips.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
I'm a 'Joe Six Pack' that's oft cited here. I received a free upgrade to Vista, via mail, when I bought my new machine and I am deathly afraid to install it. I feel much more secure with my 'stable' XP system. So the disc just sits in my drawer.
At the same time I am deathly afraid to install Linux. I love open source. I use Firefox, Thunderbird, Open Office, etc. I even have a Linux OS disc on the way in the mail. However, I also run a business and everything I have is Windows based, ie: Quickbooks.
Maybe I am too chicken, but I cannot afford for all my business data be lost or caught up in some translation hell. And I am not savvy enough to set up a dual boot system. Remember, I'm a joe six pack.
Will I buy a Linux system when it's time to buy again? Probably. If it's just for home use. I am glad the option is now available commercially.
Joe six pack could care less, I think, of what OS is on his new machine. Just as long as it works. But as soon as he tries to set up his wi fi, or tries to install software he bought two years ago for his old Windows machine, he's going to be pissed. And all he'll hear is, "You have Linux on your machine. You need Windows to run that." He won't hear how he can get an alternative program or how to find a driver.
Alas, this Dell deal should be seen as all good for Linux. The more the word is spread and it's use, the better. I just hope that Dell will help support Linux and it's use and not use it as a sales pitch to sell an extra copy of Vista when first time Linux users call in.
If Dell has to provide support for the OS, then there's still a cost to them, perhaps greater than supporting Windows.
Since we're starting to see more Web/web services integration in regular apps, perhaps we can look forward to better community support. Right now, if something goes wrong, you first have to figure out if you're being an idiot, then figure out what piece actually went wrong, then figure out how to complain, then hope the gronks actually understood enough to do something about it.
What's needed is an embedded support widget in every app, that knows about the user's current configuration, and could relate that configuration and prompt for a really intelligent report and communications. I've seen hints of this in OS bug reporting tools, but after some work it could create unbeatable support and feedback in an open context.
Of course, to be really effective, it should stretch right into pre-boot.
afaict very little if any of the software included in a typical linux distro is deliberately crippled and I highly doubt any of it is time limited. I'd imagine most companies wouldn't want to release the source to the crippled versions of thier programs as they would quickly get decripled and ubuntu does not except non OSS software except when its needed for hardware support reasons.
Yeah the default installs of some linux distros are a bit on the bloated side but that software is there for the users benifit not to try and extort more money out of them or gather thier personal data to be sold for profit.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
There are some coupons in the special deals that will knock $350 off your $1000
As someone who doesn't use Windows: knowing that the hardware works with Linux. Not sending any money to MS is also a plus.
If your comment title says 'Re: Foo', I'm not likely to read it.
If you reply that EMT64 will still run 64-bit software, I'm going to scream.
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
You're probably using really old drivers or you have DRI (read: 3D acceleration) disabled. Current Intel drivers support all Intel cards quite well, also see my previous post on this issue.
Game! - Where the stick is mightier than the sword!
Also, it bugs me that none of the Ubuntu systems have AMD processors! Most of us who run Linux want 64-bit these days, since 64-bit "just works" under Linux, and gives a pretty good performance boost.
I think the issue is Intel offers open source drivers for their integrated video cards. Less legal complications and less software complications that way. Also, the Windows variants of these machines seem to offer ATI graphics cards, which are the most likely to have problems under Linux.
Sorry, you're absolutely right. I was attempting to distinguish between the Core Duo, and the Core 2 Duo (which are most of the Intel processors sold today), and I overgeneralized.
The Core don't support EM64T at all, while the Core 2 all do. And actually, a few of the Celeron D/M do support it, though Intel gratuitously disabled it in most of the other Celeron cores that support it.
My bicyles
Yeah, that's a solid point. I don't do 3D, so I can do just fine with the open-source 2D drivers for ATI cards. If AMD or Nvidia would get their asses in gear and open-source some ATI drivers, it'd be a huge win for those of us who want computers that are:
1. cheap
2. dual-core
3. 64-bit
3. support open-source graphics
Currently, the rock-bottom prices of Turion/Athlon 64 X2 allow me to get 1-3, but Intel graphics are the only fully open-source ones. I know Intel is planning to come out with discrete graphics cards. I wonder if they'll make them for notebooks as well as desktops? Then you could have a laptop with an AMD proc and an Intel GPU, that would sure put the screws on AMD and Nvidia.
My bicyles
Will this machine be more likely to be usable until she is no longer physically capable of using a computer? That is more likely to be true with Linux than Windows while keeping the OS up-to-date.
the thing about windows is that you are not expected to keep the OS up to date. New applications work on older operating systems so provided you are behind a firewall, don't use IE for accessing untrusted sites and keep your exposed applications (web browser, mail client etc) up to date there is not really any pressing requirement to upgrade the OS.
With linux otoh you generally HAVE to upgrade the OS at least every couple of years and take any extra bloat that brings if you want to update the exposed applications without a lot of pain.
Windows 2000 is a hell of a lot better supported now than linux distros of the same era (windows XP has had an unusually long life cycle which complicates comparing it with linux distros but i bet it too will remain well supported for a good number of years).
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
I got the E520N less the monitor for $409 plus tax and shipping. Estimated ship date is 6/1. That looks like a $140 saving to me, albeit the Vista version has a different video card.
The next step is to get Dell to put the Ubuntu option more prominently displayed. It's tough to find if you don't know where to go to find it. Come on Michael, get the word out and you'll sell a ton of them.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
... But you can get even better deals on Dells by hunting around at Edealinfo or Fatwallet. I just ordered a Dell laptop yesterday that ended up being significantly cheaper than the e1505n, and yet it comes with Vista Home Premium (it was some kind of educational/affiliate/whatever discount that I found on Fatwallet).Also, it bugs me that none of the Ubuntu systems have AMD processors! Most of us who run Linux want 64-bit these days, since 64-bit "just works" under Linux, and gives a pretty good performance boost. And among Intel Desktop processors, only the Core 2 Duo support 64-bit, while *ALL* the AMD processors now support 64-bit, from the lowly Sempron on up.
Anyone know if Dell will offer an AMD system with Ubuntu? I spoke with a Dell rep yesterday and he told me that all of the Ubuntu Dell options are 64 bit. I don't think you can fault Dell here. They do have to make an investment to make Linux a viable option and I don't see why they should have to offer more than a few base systems right now. If people are buying Ubuntu Dells, we'll see what happens.
http://nyamenation.org/
The Ubuntu promo has nothing to do with operating system, browser, or user agent (well for the most part).
If you look at the page source you'll see they have a javascript array of urls, one of which always includes the Ubuntu promo link/image. These arrays are all sent to their 'montage' function which is supposed to cycle through the different promos (open the dell home page in IE and you'll see the desired function in action).
In Firefox 1.5.x for whatever reason (they have too many errors for me to even bother trying to track it down) the page will load the first random image which could possibly be the Ubuntu one. This is why you have to usually reload the page to get it. However, if you have NoScript enabled (or javascript disabled, take your pick) you will never see the Ubuntu promo as you will always get the default image.
So Dell did put an advertisement for Linux on their front page, and if they purposefully targeted anyone it was IE users, the people least likely to be informed about Linux.
For my 2 cents I think Dell initially is being conservative because this is an initial cost and a risk for them. They've had to do the research, set up the relationship, check on the drivers and such, set up the online store, etc. Then they set up the support options, however much that costs and however much that is their responsibility. That should stretch out over a period of time but it is a cost. In any case, it all might be a factor in this initial price that is worth thinking about since they're not at all sure that this is the wave of the future, but something that is worth trying. In fact, we've noticed that it is just a little less expensive than Windows, which I don't think is by accident - I'm not sure they're passing savings on to the consumer as much as the business team thinking - "What is the customer in this scenario expecting of the price?" and pricing it that way. I really think it's that way for now. For all of the above reasons, at least initially, as well as the crapware and deals with Microsoft, in all reality, it's probably more expensive, but they're trying to feel out the market, but who knows. I'm all for linux making gains, but I'm just trying to think about this stuff realistically at this point in the game.
:P. In any case, I think that maybe Dell is kind of just putting it out there and seeing what sticks for now because it's not going out of its way to sell the software - it's just there. If I were a new Ubuntu customer I would think that all of the free software as well as the whole reliability and security, as well as no tiered basic/ultimate/premium madness a la mac/pc commercials would be great.
For consumers, I don't think Dell is really advertising well what they're getting yet - I went through the whole "Customize your computer" thing to get a Ubuntu laptop. Apart from first day online store oddness, I thought it was interesting that there wasn't the advertisement of free consumer software on there, such as free complete office suite comparable to Microsoft Office. Maybe I missed it with the laptop's several power addons or something. It does seem to have a remarkable amount of options/addons. I've become a Mac guy recently so maybe I'm just used to a lack of options now so I don't know
</my2cents>
Even if these machines are only purchased by people already part of the Linux community, isn't it possible that enough of us will buy these that it makes sense for Dell to continue to offer them (or even expand the line)?
It's not like these machines will cannibalize their other sales. If anything, it's an attempt to sell machines to people who wouldn't otherwise even consider buying from dell.
Not a bad deal, assuming these machines actually work (I'm optimistic).
*sigh* back to work...
sounds like Dell are hiding their Ubuntu models in a similar fashion...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Well... they all offer 64-bit if you upgrade the processors, but the default processor for the laptop is a Pentium Dual-Core (rebranded Intel Core Duo with half the cache). You have to pay about $100 extra to get 64-bit and virtualization. Whereas for $500 they offer the Inspiron 1501, a Windows laptop, with the Turion 64 X2 TL-50 processor which has both those Linux-hacker-friendly features: http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /inspn_1501?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~ck=FamCustom
My bicyles
- Dell realized they were pissing off their business customer base and toned down the crapware fest
- Its a slightly more upscale machine than the base models Ive bought in the past, so Dell wasnt under as much price pressure to subsidize the machine with crapware
- Since switching to Vista, their panic'ed reintroduction of XP wasnt technically prepared to reintroduce the crapware
- It was a complete oversight, and they'll fully crap up the next machine
If Dell is so serious about Ubuntu Linux then why are they paying two people minimum wage sitting in a BASEMENT in HOT Austin, TX to install/test Ubuntu. Where is the Dell Linux Server Team who installs/tests Red Hat Linux located? My guess is, not in the freakin' BASEMENT. The VIDEO speaks much louder then words.
l v
This video direct from Dell shows how serious Dell really is about Ubuntu:
http://media.dellone2one.com/dell/May2007/Linux.f
Please choose an operating system :
o Ubuntu (included)
o Windows Vista (+50$)
That would be great.
After choosing the +50$, a pop up should warn that extra memory is required for the same level of performance.
this is possible, my laptop is about a year old running Ubuntu 6.06
and my desktop even older...
would the new drivers be in the default/Universe/muliverse Repositories.
should I upgrade to 7.04 to get the new drivers?
I will look into the whole DRI thing, I may never bash Intel cards again....
maybe!
--meh--
If I'm not mistaken those assertions were debunked long ago anyway. EM64T is nothing more than AMD64 by Intel. AMD64 chips and the Dore 2 Duos are all x86 chips extended to 64-bit. The classic definition of the bitness of a CPU is the size of a WORD (not the WORD used in MS Visual C++ mind you). 32-bit chips had a 32-bit WORD and the 64-bit chips have a 64-bit WORD. Since a WORD is 64-bits, the chip will take 64-bit addresses, 64-bit operands for arithmetic and all that good stuff. They're capable of switching to a 32-bit mode to run 32-bit software to boot.
EM64T runs x64 operating systems and x64 software perfectly fine. Both the AMD64 and EM64T suffer from the problem of the 32-bit mode sometimes being faster than the 64-bit mode (probably due to the increased size of the code [memory addresses twice as large] itself when running 64-bit software). IIRC, MS extended the number of levels of paging in x64 Windows as well but I'm not sure if any of the UNIX kernels did the same.
Ubuntu come with Office(s), GIMP and other useful stuff. Vista is just an useless OS. You need to pay a lot more to make it useful!!!
This is a very important point. In article like this people have to point this out every single time!!!
1. Hey, my windows office that I copied from my buddy doesn't install!
2. Hey, why doesn't the shockwave player play my video clips on myspace?
3. How do I get that iTunes working? My iPod needs it.
4. Where's Photoshop? What, this GIMP thing? Any others I might have missed?
Then Dell will see higher sales numbers. Maybe that will make up for the machines that Dell sells with Vista on them that get wiped for Ubuntu (because the buyer wanted some model not offered with Ubuntu yet).
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
i knew it wasn't exactly an emulator, but i just assumed that it would run slower on this old laptop. know i'm gonna have to try it if i have the extra time to do another install or 2.
Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something.
...d00d, I'm getting a Dell!
(Like tonightish. One of the laptops with nVidia graphics. I think I'll get just 512M and buy a couple of 1Gb sticks from someone else.)
Wait, doesnt Microsoft have a patent the idea of providing an OS on an OEM machine?
I used to like HP for Notebooks, I promoted Hp notebooks when my father/brother/mother bought theirs, and they bought them. After
:(
[HP-rant]
being told to "buy a *new* windows XP disk after your disk crashed because Hp does not ship the rescue disks internationally and cant provide you one that is not from your same country" and after being pissed off because of the ati-broadcom-SDreader-etc-etc-etc Linux driver incompatibility AAAAaaand being unable to get a workstation PC via my Unversity (I bought it via HP.co.uk web page and it never got there... 2 months after that someone at my Department called and they said the Workstation was not available anymore)
[/HP-rant]
I would really love to get one of those, seriously, Dell should make these babies available in the UK and Europe... isn't it true that Linux is more widely used over here than in the USA?? Also, Ubuntu parent company (Canonical) is a UK based company... just today I was doing the PC customization in Dell's page... sweet $600 for a PC is very good... too bad it is not available here
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
"Who fsking cares" is exactly the right question. My parents, grandparents, and many of my peers who know very little about computers don't care what operating system they are using on a computer. To them, a computer is a computer just the same, regardless of the operating system. The bottom line for them is the costs involved. How reliable is the computer? How long will it be until another computer must be purchased? How much up-front cost is required for the initial purchase?
Let's see. I'm a casual user Joe. I buy Dell, I pick cheaper option (hey, I don't care what Ubuntu is, but it's cheaper!)
Now let's install here Need for Speed... what the hell? Nothing happens.
Ok.. well let's install the tools for my MP3 player so I sync my music.. what the hell is going on here?! It doesn't work!
Man! Ok, I hope at least Photoshop Elements that came with my camera works fine, oh SHIT?! It doesn't even start!
----
Bottom line here is: people don't care what OS they use, since they use Windows, and that's what they want. The moment they "accidentally" purchase Linux, and realize they've been ripped off, they'll never EVER pick Linux again, since it's the option that broke all their software and peripherals.
This is the big problem here. All those "loud supporters of Linux". They don't want Dell just offering Linux machines. They want Dell pushing those machines onto unsuspecting users who have no clue.
To use Linux, you *need* to have clue. And this is the way it should until it becomes (if ever) more mainstream on the desktop.
The new Intel drivers should come stock with X.org, as they're integrated with it.
As for DRI, if
says Yes, then you're good to go.Game! - Where the stick is mightier than the sword!
I'd take vista for $40 and (try) to run it under ubuntu on vmware, or the reverse If I ever need to run vista I have a license and wouldn't have to shell out $200 for the retail version. For me, getting Vista with a dell is a bargain.
My point is this, the only reason this seems to be making any noise in the geek world is because it can be flown in the face of MS. But these systems are buried on their site and unless you know what you're looking for, granny w/o a nerd relative to ask probably will end up with a shiny new MS system anyway. Plus the Ubuntu boxes have no modem and lower end graphics. Since Dell is more like Apple and sells hardware, might that not have more impact on the final price? If John and Jane Doe want to start a new business they still have a HUNDRED more ways to get Ubuntu PC's than going with Dell. If granny needs the bare minimum, buy her a used computer and put Ubuntu on it. There no money went to Dell *OR* MS. And you kept someone's old junk out of the dumpster (but to granny it's brand new.) Don't get me wrong, to an extent this is groovy news. But it seems like a lot of the radio chatter after this was announced is all about pointing and laughing at MS. How many machines are sold through Best Buy/Circuit City/Wal*Mart that DON'T have Linux? It's not like MS is going out of business.
No sig for you!!
I largely do this now with my current (non-Dell) laptop. I had installed Ubuntu on it a year ago, installed VMWare Server (from the download on the VMWare site, not the repository), and installed Windows XP Pro so I have access to some software that is extremely useful to me (I.E., the Windows only map software that I got a few years ago with a USB GPS device. Yes, VMWare will pass through the USB GPS into the guest operating system without issue.
I'll probably be asking my company to buy the Dell Ubuntu laptop and an extra copy of Windows XP Pro sometime in the next week.
I posted a huge rant about the formerly alleged price difference and made a complete a$$ out of myself, you insensitive clod!
This post © Copyrite Duggeek, all rights reversed.
Some how I think you are right about the oversight...
Dell Dimension E520N
Intel Core2 Duo Processor E4300 (1.8GHz, 800 FSB), Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04 $775.00 1 $775.00
Dimension E520n Intel Core2 Duo Processor E4300 (1.8GHz, 800 FSB)
Memory 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
Keyboard Dell USB Keyboard
Monitor No Monitor
Video Cards 256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
Hard Drives 250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
Floppy Drive and Media Reader No Floppy Drive Included
Operating System Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04
Mouse Dell 2-button USB mouse
Network Interface Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet
Modem No Modem
CD or DVD Drive Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW
Sound Cards Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
Speakers No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Warranty and Service 1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day
Miscellaneous Award Winning Service and Support
Environmental Options Recycling Kit and Plant a Tree for Me
Dell Home Customers: Save $150 instant off on this Dell Dimension E520N! - $150.00
Western Digital 250GB 7200RPM USB 2.0 External Hard Drive $119.00 1 $119.00
Subtotal: $744.00
Shipping and Handling: $34.98
Shipping Discount: -$34.98
Tax Total: $36.98
Total: $780.98
"Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
I had no trouble finding the link on Dell's main page this morning. On the right side of www.dell.com scroll down and look under the "Essential Links" section. "Open Source PCs".
u buntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=anavml
Or for the extremely PEBKAC limited here is the link.
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/
For every benefit you receive a tax is levied. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
But... Win32 programming teaches us that both "32" and "64 bit" processors have a 16-bit WORD length...
(also posted to Ubuntu Forums in the laptop area)
I may end up getting a D830 instead, but I'm going to consider an E1505 anyway. For anyone else thinking of getting one, how would they configure it? I know I'd get the densest screen (which unfortunately isn't WUXGA) and probably a 120 GB drive and the DVD writer. I'm less clear on how to choose processor or memory though. For processors, speed, cache size, FSB speed all vary:
Core(TM) 2 Duo processor T7200 (4MB Cache/2.00GHz/667MHz FSB)
Core(TM) 2 Duo processor T5600 (2MB Cache/1.83GHz/667MHz FSB)
Core(TM) 2 Duo processor T5300 (2MB Cache/1.73GHz/533MHz FSB)
Core(TM) processor DUO processor T2350 2MB Cache/1.86GHz
Pentium® dual-core proc T2080(1MB Cache/1.73GHz/533MHz FSB)
I figured I'd get the T5600 but no real logic there.
I've never used 2 GB on a Linux box, so I don't know how much better that makes things, but the memory options are:
512MB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 DIMM
1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 Dimm
1GB DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHZ, 2 DIMM
2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHZ, 2 DIMM
2GB DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHZ, 2 DIMM
I'd get at least 1 GB, but I don't know how to choose between the two types.
I won't get a System 76 machine, because I'm unhappy with the maximum resolution on the screen. I'm not aware of too many other Linux preloaded solutions with at least a 1680 x 1050 screen so if I want to support a company that is going to make Linux available, this is my main chance so far.
(update: I see they have added an NVIDIA video card option - presumably I'd go that route over Intel for better performance watching HDTV on a high res screen).
Dara
And after choosing Ubuntu (-$50) a pop-up should warn that users who cannot define the word "Linux" or "OS" should choose Windows Vista (included).
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
Presumably, they'd make money by attracting people who would otherwise possibly buy from another company, because they're offering something other companies can't offer.
This will put the Ubuntu project and Dell in the same position as Apple! The initial release has a strict hardware platform with selected components that they know works. This is a great oportunity to produce a PC that needs no extra drivers and that just works (like Apples). Future models may be developed in cooperation of the two and may spawn a need to make new drivers on sertain hardware. This will gain the Linux community. Let's all look forward to a new era of custom buildt os and hardware with great stability and quality!
Scanners work BETTER under Linux than Windows: the reason is that Windows TWAIN rewrites the interface and capability of the device under windows so you have a different UI for scanning for each model and/or make of scanner. Linux uses SANE and the backend talks scanner and SANE front-end. The same front end for any scanner. Now try helping your dad over the phone with scanning "right go to the Image tab" "Sorry, son, no image tab here" "it's right at the top where it says 'Image' 'settings' and 'tools'" "No, nothing like that. I've got "Import" as a big box" "well I don't get that no my scanner". Then find out when you go round that the UI is different.
Printers work fine, the only problem being working out what driver works with the printer you have, though CUPS installation through the distro is getting good at it. But you have the same problem with Windows if you don't use their installer (I have 267 Brother printer drivers. Why would I pick 700 series inkjet over a 750 series?) and they don't make a Linux installer, so that's the manufacturer fault, not linux.
With 477 drivers, won't that make MORE webcams work out of the box with Linux compared with a few old webcams OOTB with windows?
And lastly, if this is a Dell problem, then it would be a problem with the purchased scanner/webcam/printer. Well, Dell would be ensuring it's one that works with Linux, wouldn't they? Mind you, I've had a business account that had NT installed on Dells with graphics cards that didn't work with NT... Though according to you, this is a fault with NT. It just isn't ready for the desktop...
Why not install Linux on that box & run Win2k in a virtual machine? A bare-bones Linux install + VMware Server (which is free and Free) would be possible.
Why does it sometimes take 45 seconds to open a terminal on a dual processor machine with 4 GB of memory in various distributions of linux?
You can hate Windows as much as you want, but don't spread misinformation about performance, because windows will easily "outperform" the majority of distributions of linux in a very visible sense. You double click an icon in windows and it'll appear to open a program faster than it does on linux. While the "under the hood" performance may be better, in a large proportion of cases it isn't visibly so.
I think, therefore I am an Atheist.
Same for VIA's S3 Savage and some other integrated chipsets, which DO support AMD processors.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
You contradict yourself. It's clearly stated on Dell's website that Ubuntu is not a Windows operating system. Everyone too stupid to not notice that instruction while shopping for several hundred dollars shouldn't be using a PC anyway.
On the other hand, I have installed 35 spare PCs at my workplace with Kubuntu. These were sold to fellow workers who had, for the very largest part, never owned a PC before. It has been a month now, and I am still to hear any of the complaints you mention. I expected some complaints about obscure video files not playing etc. though, but figured out they googled and found ubuntuusers.de, where help was easily available :-) Fine, less work for me.
The problem is not the clueless users - they will just google or ask to learn just enough to get things going - but the users that are already accustomed to Windows concepts. These are VERY unlikely to break their habits, but they won't buy a Linux powered machine either.
Want to hear the voice of GOD? cat
If anything, it's an attempt to sell machines to people who wouldn't otherwise even consider buying from dell.
I'm in that group. However, I worry that if I buy a Dell, that it and my Mac may try to kill each other while I'm at work...
"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."
On the simple page showing prices, Nat Tuck compares laptops that are not equivalent. The Ubuntu laptop's default graphics card is an integrated graphics card with no dedicated memory. The nVidia 256MB video card Dell added as an option for the Ubuntu laptop is a better comparison and results in the exact same price for both systems. (Note that Nat reports a $79 savings for the Ubuntu laptop and upgrading to the nVidia video card costs $79.)
I installed Ubuntu in VMWare on Windows and (simply accepting all the install defaults) can now from within Ubuntu access all my windows files, print to my windows printer, use my 1997 wacom art pen, sound works, SAMBA works preinstalled, etc. This means I can continue to use my familiar Windows XP environment but also log into Ubuntu any time I want either via the GUI or from Windows via Putty or WinSCP. The virtual Ubuntu machine is 3.7 GB so I can carry it around on my 4 GB memory stick. I made a super-easy-to-follow tutorial to show others how to do it: http://www.tanguay.info/web/installubuntu Now anyone who can follow simple screenshots can have a virtual Ubuntu machine running inside Windows by the end of the day.
To directly quote my Dell HigherEd rep: "After much research, I determined that the Ubuntu versions are not available to higher ed customers for several reasons. As new units, we are not yet able to determine if Canonical can provide the support. Plus, there are production concerns. They are only available to U.S. consumers which means that you would not be able to purchase through the [sic] tax exempt customer number."
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