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Dell Ships Ubuntu 7.04 PCs Today
javipas writes "Today by 4:00 PM CST Dell will start selling three machines with Ubuntu 7.04 pre-installed. The two desktops (XPS 410n, $899 and Dimension E520n, $599) and the notebook (Inspiron E1505n, $599) will be the first three machines with the popular Linux distribution installed by default. There is little or no price differential between the Linux and Windows models; in fact, the entry level E520 Windows desktop is cheaper. Dell has announced that they will provide hardware support, and they've created a new site devoted to giving further Linux support and updates. At the moment the offer is only available in the US."
They must be mighty expensive then !
Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
Windows is cheaper than the free OS. That makes sense.
Microsoft pays a heavy subsidy to lock people in. So it costs you negative money at first, but believe me there is a positive cost at the end that more than makes up for it, or else they wouldn't do it. Open source is the same price the whole time: free.
stuff |
.. you've been asking for this for, let me think, for ever.
It's time to stop your moaning! And time to start your credit cards!!
Put your money where your mouth is :-)
monk.e.boy
Open source, flash charts
The headline reads a whopping 7.04 per day.
-b.
And when this will hit Europe or Non-US countries?
I don't see many people buying the more expensive model, just to have Ubuntu pre-installed, except maybe to make a point to Dell (very few will do this). Let's face it, the people who want Ubuntu are pretty likely to just buy the cheaper model and install Ubuntu. This might work in some distant future where people without technical knowledge want Linux, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I'll be happy to be proven wrong by history though.
Remember, Microsoft essentially pays to have it's OS on OEM machines. It is a negative cost: the only thing free can't always compete with.
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
How are they going to handle dial up issues? Are they going to include the same conexant modem? I have problems believing they have worked out a deal to use the linuxant driver.
This has actually been my biggest issue getting ppl to switch. I live in BFE, and a lot of ppl are still using dial up. Nobody wants to fork out extra cash to switch operating systems when they already have windows up and working for "free"
They fail to mention that the linux boxen come with a free copy of Office (a $300.00 value), free copy of Photoshop ($??? Value), and thousands of other free programs that will ultimately save you money. No, it doesn't make up for the base price of the OS, but with Linux, you don't just get the OS.
The link takes me to Dell Open Source Notebooks page where I can configure 3 laptops which offer "FreeDOS" as the OS and no other option. So where is Ubuntu?
If nobody buys these, I seriously doubt they'll keep them around. And if Dell drops them due to lack of demand (in real life, not on the Internet), Linux will end up farther from getting on the average person's desktop than before.
Dell pays for Microsoft software just like everybody else. They don't pay very much, but they still pay a little for it. The difference is the 3rd party stuff. The Norton/McAfee third party trials. The AOL links on the desktop. The Nero trials and all the other stuff you either uninstall or wipe with your own installation of XP/what-have-you. *Those* are the sort of things that Dell gets kickbacks on.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Will dell, when they see that the sale of linux is not to great, check to see the sales of those exact models - since there is no actual reason to buy a linux pc from dell right now, I expect people to buy the windows version and wipe and install themselves.
At the time being there is no point in buying a linux dell, since it's the same price, and if you buy the windows one you get more; a windows license and a computer you know you can run linux on. What's the point of buying the linux one ?
(I know, I will probably buy the linux one, since I have no use for the windows, but it actually makes no sense to the average person to buy the linux one, since you get more for less/same price with the windows one)
Doolittle :
Bomb no.20 : To explode of course.
If that was the only cost difference, then it would not make sense. But I suspect the cost difference is due to the volume spread of customer support.
As a bussiness, if you were to add support services for any OS or item, the totality of that support would have a total cost. Divide that cost by the number of customers paying for that service and you have your price. Thus more customers, equals greater volume spread of the cost, equals smaller price per customer.
Now I'll leave it to someone else to divulge or speculate on whether Dell sells more systems with Windows support, or more with Ubuntu support.
There was a story on Ars Technica a while back (I don't have the link, sorry) where Michael Dell was doing a question and answer session, and someone asked him how much extra they would have to pay to get a PC without "Craplets". The figure he gave was $50 - $60.
Now, I don't know how much Dell pay for a vista license, and I don't suppose we will be finding out any time soon, but if it's less than $50 dollars (which would not be a shock) then the Linux machines being more expensive makes sense. If I had to guess though, I think they will probably sell for the same price as the Windows machines.
"I realise this is not a very popular opinion but it's the truth, and there for needs to be said" -Bill Hicks
When is Dell going to start shipping Ubuntu with there computers outside the US?
I'm English and would like to buy a laptop pre installed with Ubuntu in the next couple of months. I worried that it will never happen. Anyway I'm giving them a couple of months otherwise I'm getting an Apple.
I hear Dell projects sell around a hundred within the next two months. That's probably shooting for the stars, but oh well.
Yeah, demand for Lunix is that high. People are really stoked foto get Ubunghole on their laptop.
... that almost anyone clued in enough to decide that they want Ubuntu would be clued up enough to just buy the Windows version and install Ubuntu dual boot. Most linux users still have some use for windows and its lice to have it legally.
I wonder what discount could be had if there was a 'no support' option? I can't see regular home users queuing up to buy something they are unfamiliar with if the price is the same.
Retailer has new product and it's not priced dirt bottom. That's news?
It would be silly to introduce a new version of a product and sell it for less than an existing product.
If it were me, I'd start with the price up a little bit for two reasons. 1, less complaining when the price goes down versus up (yes, someone will complain on a price drop!). 2, with a higher price I have a cushion in case these things start selling like hotcakes and the volume murders my margin as I burn resources to keep up.
SOP, nothing to see here.
Anything is possible given time and money.
One minute, Microsoft make most of their money through Windows OEM sales...
Now they're actually paying OEM's to have their software installed?
My personal guess is that Dell know this'll be a specialist product line, and that the extra money they would've spent on buying each copy of Windows is instead going towards Michael Dells' cigar allowance...unless of course it becomes a serious product line (which it might), and then you'll see a proper roll-out.
throw new NoSignatureException();
Pretty funny that this happens at the same time start selling Dell PC's at Wal-Mart. Pretty desperate, I'm guessing.
Riding the wave of all the other sell-outs who disappeared.
Who's up next to bat?
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
to get the PC with Windows, download & burn Ubuntu, ask for the Windows Vista refund, install Ubuntu, and you get a better deal, don't you think?
Has anyone done any formal projections of how well these are expected to sell?
What/who is the target market? From my (admittedly limited) point of view, there are only two types of users: Linux users and "everyone else". The Linux users, such as myself, already know how to install Linux, so they have no need to buy a machine with it pre-installed. Everyone else doesn't know any better, so they'll just stick with what they know (Windows) or what is most heavily advertised (again, Windows), and/or what is most readily available (not Linux).
I'm not trying to be a nay-sayer or suggesting that this is bad. It's definitely cool to see and a step in the right direction. But I'm just curious about the source of the demand for these machines. My worry is that Dell responded to a bunch of Linux zealots who didn't think the situation through, and thought that Dell offering machines with Linux pre-loaded would be enough to make this year "the year of Linux". But are the people who did all the talking now doing the buying? I hope so. It'd just be sad to see too few of these machines sell because the the whole strategy was only half-baked.
I mean, for our favorite stereotype, Joe Sixpack, if he's even aware of this machine with Ubuntu pre-loaded, why would he want to buy it? It's not any cheaper. We know Joe Sixpack isn't concerned with, or is at least ignorant of, software freedom (free speech). All his friends and family probably use Windows. I haven't bothered to check, but I'm sure Dell isn't heavily marketing the Linux advantages. I guess that leaves word of mouth. Hopefully, Joe Sixpack has a nephew or friend who is a Linux user (but not zealot) and can give him some simple, practical ideas why he wants Ubuntu over Windows.
It will definitely be fun to see where this goes! I'm curious how Microsoft execs feel about this. I wonder if Microsoft and Dell have had any arguments or ill-will about this? There's gotta be some juicy drama in there somewhere!
From TFA:
"The entry level of the Vista Home Basic version of the E1505 notebook is US$699, $100 more than its entry level Ubuntu counterpart."
There is a significant price difference. The Slashdot summary says there is little or no difference but maybe it's comparing apples with oranges. It wasn't clear to me if the two Vista and Ubuntu notebooks had identical hardware.
One of the advantages that Ubuntu might have is the ability to run on machines with less GHz and Megabits. It is quite possible that Vista on an identical machine will be much slower and more annoying than Ubuntu.
We get a very mixed message. Searching Dell's UK site for 'Ubuntu' brings up this page, but if you go through all the options on the online store, Linux isn't there.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
So Dell should be making about $100 more on the Ubuntu sales than on the Windows sales, on $600 revenue. If they profit 5% on the Windows machines, that's $30, so the $130 Ubuntu profit is 22% profit, or about 4.5x the profit from Ubuntu than from Windows.
Ubuntu support might cost more to start, since the labor pool is smaller and they have to start up the operation. The open source is a mixed bag, because it sees a new release to support every 6 months, not every 5 years for Windows, though unpredictable Windows service packs vs steady apt-get upgrades is a largely unknown economic. Little of Dell's support will be helped by Dell looking at the OS sourcecode, let alone fixing it. And it's hard to tell whether Ubuntu's smaller escalation target than Microsoft's is cheaper for backend support. But this new era should produce direct comparison of substantial support statistics where only the OS differs.
So this new OS line on identical HW is likely to generate substantially more profits and lots of FUD-dispelling support costs data for Dell. So I expect Microsoft has made a deal with Dell to subsidize Windows, and (if history is any guide) plenty of anticompetitive tricks to make Ubuntu look bad compared to Windows.
But the race is on! And that bigger profit margin should encourage Dell to heavily advertise Ubuntu, at least once they've got scaling numbers for their support costs.
I wonder if today will be the Linux equivalent to the day AOL gatewayed all its users to the Internet and Usenet. I hope not - the Internet has sucked since then.
--
make install -not war
Read the first 5 words of the summary again.
Why else would the machines with windows cost less. Linux is free, so windows must add negative value to the machines.
We just need to push this on the press and give it the publicity it deserves.
Now, who is willing to put their money where their mouth is? While its great to see Ubuntu make its way into a 'mainstream' computer store, I'm now wondering how many people who were pushing to see this - are actually going to go out and buy one?
I'm guessing that most of the vocal 'pro put Linux on a Dell!' people, are already tech-savvy enough to have it downloaded/installed on their own.
And truth be told, even though I am a Linux fan and have been runing it on my home computer for over a year now (I ran it for a few years back in Highschool also, then switched to windows, now back to Linux), if I was buying a new PC, I'd be inclined to snag one with Windows Vista installed simply because
a: it comes bundled
b: not any more expensive
c: if I ever have the need for windows, I can have a 'free' legal copy on hand
Where, if I go with Linux - while its great to have, and have it supported, if there ever comes a day where I need Windows (say: a development job and I need to have windows installed for the enviroment) - I now need to go out and shell money for a copy of Windows.
The last two PCs I bought I specificly asked "Please dont install any software on it", and even though they went with that request - I did not get any discount for not taking the bundle as it was included as 'free' anyways at the time.
linux.dell.com has been there for over a month now (not sure exactly how long). this is the first i've seen it with the Ubuntu logo, though. there's still very little information there. hopefully they'll do something with it in the future.
Come on dude. I'm sure you have been around the community long enough to know that whining and puling is as much a part of being a Lunix user as fantasizing about Lunis Torvbals in lingerie.
But spending money on something? Nah... not so much. I'm guessing that despite all the community's years of whining and crying, they will just go out and buy the cheapest laptop they can find, and pray Lunix installs on it. And when it doesn't, well that's cool too, because it just gives them another thing to whine about.
I'm sure Dell still charge for a Windows licence even on these machines, rather than face the wrath of Microsoft.
http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/unsupporte d-rapid-oxidation
It's been around for years - Netcraft says since 2004:
/ /linux.dell.com
http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http:
I don't see it...
Wait. You mean I have to go to a special other website? linux.dell.com? This means you have to choose which operating system you want before you even begin. How the hell is some grandmother supposed to choose anything but Windows if there's no mention of Ubuntu anywhere on www.dell.com?
This is pathetic. I want to see Windows and Ubuntu next to one another on the choose operating system option menu so the consumers can see there are other options. This is depressing.
...'cos after the initial bubble of nerds (with spare cash), whatever business they'll get with Ubuntu will be low-key. I think this is a 'sit-back-and-see-what-happens' scenario for Dell, or rather a 'sit-back-and-see-what-happens-and-hope-this-ventu re-didn't-involve-too-much-cash-in-the-first-place ' scenario.
I think that in the future we'll contentrate less on the O.S. and the core of our machines will be on the web. Computers will be more "thin box" and the difference if we have windows or linux or whatever will be less important.
You fail to realize the other benefit here. They now HAVE TO SUPPORT you having Ubuntu on your Dell laptop/desktop. Not that their customer support is the greatest, but this at the very least is a good thing.
Right. So lets see if I can sum this up:
3kg laptop
Same price as the Windows install
Hardware is no more "free" than most Think Pads ( its an Intel chip set after all)
This is not a serious attempt. You are better off trying to get a refund from your Windows OEM license. Unless the argument is that Dell's website is easier to navigate than the Ubuntu installer this is rubbish. Way to screw it up Dell...
Dimenson E520n ranges from $289 - $399 with FreeDOS. Ubuntu base price is $599, difference is +$310.
XPS 410 ranges from $899 - $1699 with Vista. Ubuntu base is price is $899.
Inspiron E1505 ranges from $699 - $1,560 with Vista. Ubuntu base price is $599, difference is -$100.
Maybe...
However, that does make me wonder: why would Dell invest the money and time in developing a series of Linux computers (testing, support services, marketing, etc) if they weren't certain that it would be profitable?
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
In other news, this "coming soon image"u buntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/
used to be kinda different. And I made fun of it over here.
http://a4fs.net/img/lol.htm
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
I don't see anyone referring to these pre-installed apps by their official name... Craplets.
Write crapware for Linux. Pay Dell to install it.
Quick, let's all start Linux crapware companies!
(actually not a bad idea to be first in the "market" for this, if you can pay the bills long enough for desktop Linux to really take off -- or just do a whole negative-cost distribution for OEMs)
My father wants to buy a notebook, and the Inspiron 1501 was ideal for him. At home, he runs already Debian (supported by me), and it gives him everything he needs. A Ubuntu notebook would have been the max.
So why don't we get this stuff preinstalled on linux? Arent software developers interested in paying to get their trials on Linux machines? I can see how there is now market for it right now, but it seems like people don't think this will happen in the future either?
Now, I'm sure lots of people here don't want the usual Dell-crap, but I know I wouldnt mind if it made my computer 50 usd cheaper, and I can imagine many current windowsusers feel the same way. As long as its fair trials and not just utter crap.
http://www.itsatrap.net/
He said credit card...if Canadian dollars are decaf money, what the fuck are credit cards then, instant?
By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
Known: 8-bit channels. Near-total ignorance of gamma. Pretty much needs a virtual desktop to itself. Must look up Pantone crap by hand (try a web page) because of intellectual property restrictions.
Bullshit: Non-RGB working space (CMYK is device-specific). Menus not word-for-word identical to Photoshop, and window titlebar doesn't say "Adobe Photoshop".
Anything else?
Aside from my very first PC and my laptop, I've built them all. It's cheaper and almost always more bang for your buck. Plus, you don't have to deal with reinstalling the OS once you get it, as it's blank. No craplets, no "DELL" bios loading screen... It's just better. I can understand businesses, because they typically get bulk discounts and don't really care about what's running down in the task bar :P
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
So MS would be in court fast if they publicly admitted it. As it is, the establishment can look the other way.
Furthermore, I believe the default config will have integrated video (which has open sourced drivers). You will probably have the option to upgrade to an nvidia card. (But the specs aren't official yet, so this is speculation based on what had been on Dell's wiki & official statements they've made saying they'll use F/OSS drivers.)
At first, the base price may be more expensive than the Windows laptop, but:
In the past, I have proudly emerged from the entrails of my machine saying, "Yesss! What a breakthrough! Am I a geek or what? After countless hours of Googling, downloading drivers, messing with the hardware, and writing my own script files, my computer now finally works properly!" Meanwhile, my wife's machine has worked from the beginning. Well, been there, done that; now I want to move on. I want it to just work.
So, when I tally it up, it's definitely to my self-interest to get the Dellbuntu system, even if it looks more expensive at first.
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
It just occurred to me that Microsoft has been accused of abusing their monopoly power by bundling applications with their operating system. E.g., IE versus Netscape, Windows Media Player versus RealPlayer, etc. (For anyone who's not familiar with this idea: Microsoft, due to their operating system monopoly status, has an unfair advantage in the applications market.)
Now, clearly you can build and ship an Ubuntu (or just about any other Linux distribution) machine pre-loaded with tons of free software. And that probably needs to happen to make Linux effective for the "unwashed masses".
But, is it possible for Microsoft to take a look at this, and use it as an excuse to start forcing more 3rd party software developers out of the market? If I remember correctly, Microsoft's defense to the monopoly abuse allegations has always been something like "but these applications are part of the operating system." Dell shipping Ubuntu plus a lot of applications kind of supports Microsoft's claim (in a weird, twisted way, which I'm sure Microsoft's well-paid lawyers could use to their advantage).
I will be in the market for a new laptop in a couple of months. I will get this one with Ubuntu on it. And I don't even intend to run Linux on it (OpenBSD, failing that, FreeBSD).
While it would probrably make more financial sense to get this with Windows, I will get the Linux installed version. The reason is to encourage more hardware compatibility and more open source drivers in the marketplace.
BTW, I am in a similar boat vis-a-vis Windows, but my company has volume licences for most of MS's software.
Dell expects to sell about 20,000 units annually. That's less than 1% of its overall consumer business. Anyone who had anything in their posts thinking that Dell was going to try to 'convert' customers from Windows to Linux is really just speculating in the absence of fact. Dell is attempting to add incramental market share to their consumer business by reaching out to a new market.
I don't think that will ever happen. And I don't think it's even that important. Pantone spot colors aren't all that useful (even in Photoshop) since like 80 (?) percent of them are outside of the RGB colorspace, and even more of them are outside of CYMK.
It's useful if you want to mock stuff up. Or if you want to add color tags to an XXX-tone multichannel image. But then you're probably futzing with specific colors outside of the application and doing test print runs before showing them to some bigwig who flips open the chips and picks a different shade.
I think a subversive little palette file is probably good enough for mockup and to get around the perceived need for Pantone "support". It's not like you need to license the color formulations...
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
That's what Photoshop has that's really nice.
I understand GEGL will kill both birds but when do we get to play with it?
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I'm looking at the exchange rates of UK £ to both US $ and CAN $, and they look pretty damn similar to me. You might have had a point five years ago, but the US $ isn't exactly hot shit right now.
I like how the monitor in the background of the video says "Broken!!! Do Not Plug In!!"
support costs, you will have far fewer people calling in twice a month yelling for an hour because "you bastards sent me another virus!!!!!!!!"
by putting out a new line that is targetted towards the top % of computer literate they stand to make some serious bank as long as enough people buy these things.
more than half, probably far more than half, of support calls are due to user error, often stupid user error.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
Did anyone else notice that the base model on that laptop comes with an ATi card? This (given my experiences with ATi on Linux) seems like a BAD match for the preloaded Ubuntu laptop.
The only upside I can see is the rhetoric about better open source driver pressure coming from Dell (on the Direct2Dell page).
Anyone else nervous about this being Joe Sixpacks initial experience with Linux?
My Babylon
It's only a better deal if the amount you save divided by the number of work hours is larger than how much you're worth per hour.
When Microsoft bundled all this software that got them in trouble (IE, WMP, etc.) it was all in-house Microsoft software to the exclusion of third party software.
Ubuntu (and most Linux distros) on the other hand bundle tons of third party software (Firefox/Konqueror, Thunderbird/Kmail/Evolution, Totem/Amarok/MPlayer/Xine/...) to provide a rich desktop environment for users. The big difference of course is that the software is not distro specific. I can install Amarok on Ubuntu, Fedora, SUSE, or any other Linux distribution I want. If the developers of those applications wanted to create a Windows executable, then Windows users could also install said applications.
More importantly each distribution seems to have a different set of applications it distributes giving each piece of software more or less even exposure (the most popular/functional ones tend to bubble to the top and get included everywhere, but they can be replaced by something better in the next release). With Windows, even if the entire world agreed that Firefox was a better browser than IE (or for the sake of argument, that Opera was the best) you would not see IE replaced in the next release of Windows as the default browser.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
It's about time. That's it: 'it's about time'. I feel the mighty walls of the Redmond empire finally crumbling.
Do you really think there's a PC manufacturer out there who wouldn't want to tap into the Wal-Mart distribution channel?
Dell is geared up with the kind of manufacturing capacity to supply systems to Wal-Mart at the ridiculously low prices they demand. Landing a huge sales channel like this is hardly desperation on Dell's part. This is a win for both companies. Maybe even for those of us who buy systems, too.
The lack of lower pricing is going to kill this almost as fast as it can get out the door. One of the main pushes for Linux on commercial machines is the perception that they're paying that $100+ shelf price for Windows to be on the PC. If they're about the same price, who in their right mind wouldn't get the Windows version "just in case" and then just get a free copy of Ubuntu to load themselves? Sorry Dell, this isn't going to fly with most of your customers...
We say "don't put windows on, put linux on". They put linux on but make it more expensive. Why? When you get the Windows machine, you get a better deal and can still send the Windows license in for a refund. It's not as if supporting Linux the Dell way is any more difficult: "you've installed something? Well, it'll be that causing the problem then".
Because this makes no sense, unless they are selling us the Windows machine, installing Linux instead and keeping the (customer paid for) license, why should we buy it?
It doesn't come with a pony, either. You're right, it sucks seven different kinds of ass. Michael Dell should impale himself on a pike at this affront to the Linux faithful. *ahem*
Another point: Microsoft's argument was that they HAD to install Internet Exploder because it was 'built-in' to the OS to the extent that it wasn't possible to remove it. This turned out to be false, but Ubuntu wouldn't add any weight to their argument. "Apt-get remove mozilla-firefox" will work just fine. Microsoft would still be guilty of "tying" one product to another to leverage their monopoly.
(Tying is only illegal in the US if you're at or near monopoly status, trolls. Funny, that's standard Liberal practice -- don't actually change anything, just ask that everyone be nicer about it. Of course, Microsoft wasn't nicer about it, and would've been broken up if the AG hadn't been replaced in 2001.)
As Intel is very friendly to FLOSS, the drivers for Intel's integrated hardware are as good on Linux as they are on Windows (better, in some cases), and a linux box demands less because the OS architecture is better.
Maybe the grandparent tried to use Beryl on a machine with integrated graphics, and noticed that it didn't work too well. Or maybe he couldn't get something configured. Please, do not be misled by the grandparent. Ubuntu and linux work great with integrated graphics.
- Machine: _____________Windows__________Ubuntu
- Dimension E520n________$369*_____________$599
- XPS 410n______________$899______________$849
- Inspiron E1505n_________$699*_____________$599
Note According to Dell website * = After instant price savings (Limited time offer) I or someone else, I'm sure, will follow up once we know the exact hw config. P.S. Sorry about the format, stupid lameness filter.I think for Linux installs they don't get revenue from Symantec's trial of the worst security suite in the world, WildTangent, Office trials, Quicken trials, video game trials, some poker, etc.
So, you don't think Earthlink and friends want to advertise on free software desktops? People with real services will pay that expense, so free software should not cost more than Windoze. If it does, Dell is dropping the ball and missing a chance to make money.
If Dell can make a machine for less than I can, I might consider it even if the Windoze version is cheaper. If not, I'm going to build the machine myself for less with hardware known to work with free drivers. If the Dell machine is cheaper, and I know it works with free drivers, I will buy the Dell. The service they can provide is assurance. If they don't provide that, they don't have anything.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
not to flame about gimp - but it's no photoshop. It's great and all, but (at the moment) it's not even close.
Gimp is more than adequate for home users and the vast majority of office use. The rest of the market is so tiny, Dell might not notice it.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
nothing to see here ... move along ...
I almost wonder what the point of all this is. Linux fanboys have made such a fuss about Dell and other companies shipping Linux machines, but I find it hard to believe that the "do it yourself" Linux crowd would actually even consider buying a machine that's already been built. The laptop makes sense I guess, but the desktops don't.
Plus, for a group of people that make such a big deal about OS choice, they'd probably be likely to wipe off Ubuntu as soon as possible (if not for a newer version of Ubuntu when it's available or for their distro of choice). So why not just get the desktop with Windows? They're not more expensive, you just have to install Linux versus having it done for you.
Yeah I know, I'm being facetious. I know this is all purely a symbolic thing. A big name company is selling Linux boxes. Woo hoo. And they're going to stop selling these Linux boxes when Linux geeks either don't buy any (because they want to build their own machines) or the Linux geeks who buy one or two boxes just to show support, well, stop buying boxes. No one outside of the Linux world would care about these machines since they can just get one that has Windows for the same price.
My wife use to do response rate modeling for targeted advertising for a credit card company. The response rate is really, really low. You can't afford to pay very much per impression because otherwise, the numbers don't work out. They really don't work out for a Symantec who doesn't know who the buyer is, and there is a pretty good chance that the buyer is already a customer. What Dell ought to do is label certain models as 'Linux certifed' and allow you to buy those machines without Windows and the price of Windows deducted. The *ONLY* reason Dell (or any other Windows OEM) doesn't do this is that Microsoft threatened to retaliate in some way that would increase Dell's price for Windows and or MS Office. We don't know what form that threat took, but I guarantee you that this stupidity was dictated by Microsoft.
I want to buy one of those laptops, and look forward to the first reviews. Does the WiFi really work? Do sleep modes really work? Do the graphics modes really work? Did Dell preload adware? If the first few weeks of reviews indicate it's basically OK, I'm getting one.
Well, I would love to have a laptop that works out of the box with everything enabled: wifi, bluetooth, external monitor socket have given me problems. On desktops Kubuntu rocks...
My apologies if I offended. The problem with generalities is that they are sometimes inadequate. Yes, the Intel integrated chipsets ARE well supported in Ubuntu. However many of the other ones are not.
Also, I was basing my statement in part on the fact that the Linux base model laptop will have dedicated video, and the base model Windows versions will have integrated video. I made an assumption I should not have about the reasoning behind that.
Either way, I don't think you would argue with the fact that a dedicated video card is generally a better option than an integrated one. If the Linux boxes come with dedicated video by default, then that would go a long way towards explaining the lack of a huge price differential between the competing base model units.
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
Dell is only offering hardware support, but the machines are priced the same as Windows boxes. I call that favoritism! I demand that Ubuntu Feisty be given the same excellent level of support that Microsoft offers it Windows customers.
Er, wait a minute ...
First, a FLOSS laptop. Now, posting their promo materials in an open format -- http://media.dellone2one.com/dell/May2007/Linux.og g
Way to go Dell!
Ubuntu comes with Open Office (at least my install did). Does the MS machine come with MS Office?
why is it the same price for a linux machine from them as a machine with Vista Premium installed? Doesn't this seem a little fishy?
Grr. This really grinds my gears. An OS cannot be pre-installed and installed at the same time. Pre means BEFORE, not 'ahead of time'. Here is the test: if the term makes sense with pre replaced with "not yet" and still makes sense, then you're OK to use pre. Preinstall is a FVCKING NOUN, not a verb, it refers to a TIME, the time before the installation was complete. If i begin installing at noon, any time BEFORE noon is pre-install. From noon until the time the install is complete, i am install*ING*. All time after the installation is complete is POST-install(ation). The only time a car is pre-owned is while the dealership has it. Once someone buys it, it is OWNED. When someone sells it, it becomes POST-owned... used. This isn't hard stuff.
/Going back to work now.
Why does this annoy me so? Mostly because i'm killing time at work. Journalists should not make this kind of mistake. People who get paid to write and went to college to write should not screw up parts of speech.
While i'm at it:
Utilize means 'use in a way other than it's intended purpose'. "I utilized a book as a doorstop".
Impact != Effect. The IMPACT of a bullet might have the EFFECT of killing you.
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
I wish they would offer a dual boot option (Ubuntu/XP) but Microsoft doesn't allow that.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
What we need is a negative-price linux distro that comes with a lot of craplets.
The Linux version of the PC is $599, the windows version is $369, that is $230 difference. Why would anyone try something new if it's going to cost them drastically more for the same machine?
You can make all the excuses you want. The lack of bundled software subsidies *yawn* I can purchase a windows-based PC from Dell and there is an option not to include the bundled crap and it doesn't cost extra.
Costs to put together a new machine and support procedures (Dell won't be supporting these but they do need put phone routes and procedures in place for handling the warranty calls). Sure, those are valid but price unless Dell is just gaining a few extra bucks from early adopters and intends to lower prices shortly their Linux attempt will fail again. If they are smart they could charge the same price for the PCs and recover their costs a little more slowly (after all, they do profit on a per machine basis). This will give them the Linux market foothold they need.
Instead they obviously want the same profit on each machine as the windows counterparts out of the gate. Bad Call. This is bad for Linux. There won't be any new drivers because Dell is only going to use already supported hardware and not push manufacturers to produce Linux drivers. There won't be increased adoption because nobody is going to pay more for the privilege of trying something new. It's bad for Dell because everything they invest in this attempt will be wasted. They won't recover their costs, they won't be a Linux desktop pioneer.
Obviously Dell still blames their previous failures on the lack of a Linux market instead of their own incompetence in implementation and Dell is destined to fail again for the same reasons they failed before. Michael Dell, listen before it is too late. It doesn't matter how large the Linux market grows, there will NEVER be a day when rolling out Linux support with non-standard models that come at increased prices will work.
I've seen some posts that suggest do it yourself geeks will not be buying this pre-installed option. I have been using Linux for over 10 years. Let me be one Linux user who:
welcomes *not* having to uninstall Windows immediately.
who welcomes *not* having to gripe that I was forced to pay for something I will never use.
who welcomes *not* having to spend weeks getting everything tweaked and working.
who welcomes the idea of opening the box, pressing the "on" button, and playing around instead of working on my new system!
I'll be ordering one within the next month or two.
Fresh horses and more whiskey for my men.
Someone knows when they'll be available in Europe?
Math is beautiful... e^(pi*i)+1=0
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/u buntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
Go Ubuntu!
Sent from my desktop computer
There appears to be $100 price difference between the base Windows and Linux notebook model (with the Linux model being cheaper obviously).
In my opinion this a very substantial price difference, especially when you consider that the Linux laptop will ship with the modem drivers paid for and installed by Dell (according to Direct2Dell). Sounds like a very good deal to me!
IMHO Dell are trying to really have a go at fulfilling the needs of their Linux using customers, ok they aren't pushing these to Windows users, but why should they, they make their money by selling hardware, not operating systems and I am quite sure that provided you buy Dell, they don't care what the OS is.
I reckon that the notebook in particular will sell better than they expect, because in the past a lot of people installed linux on an ex-Windows notebook they already had. If it doesn't work, it is annoying, but not the end of the world. If you shell out $600 -$700 for a new notebook, how annoyed would you be to find that you couldn't get the wireless working. After all, it isn't like you can easily change the offending bit of hardware, like you can on a desktop. On top of all that if you install Linux on a new notebook, most of the time, you void the warranty. So what happens when you need to replace the old Linux installed Windows notebook with a new one, that you now know you want Linux on, instead of Windows? Well it looks like you buy Dell, if you want a good deal.
For people that want a Linux notebook this a safe bet that actually costs $100 less than the Windows equivalent and everything will work, even the modem. Dell should be congratulated on their efforts for Linux users and the speed with which they have made this happen.
Once these are released in the UK, I am absolutely going to buy one, no question!
NOT!
You linux geeks are funny. Keep it up!
The E520n configuration includes a 17" flat panel monitor. If you select "no monitor" it will drop the price to $409 for the Ubuntu base configuration. The same spec'ed FreeDOS machine is $399. The cheaper FreeDOS configurations come with celeron or pentium 4 processors which are not available with Ubuntu configurations.
Seriously, if you find it (with equivalent or better specifications), I'd probably think about buying it.
Right now the E520n machine is $409 without the monitor. I haven't been able to find a core 2 duo E520 for a price close to that.
Value of including craplets > cost of Windows.
Therefore, there is business case for MS to give away craplet-infested Windows install disks.
I don't know whether to be amused, intrigued, or run screaming in horror.
Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
The hardware differences for the laptops are that the windows laptop includes an ATI graphics card and a less expensive wireless card. The ATI card, I think, accounts for the $100 difference, more than the fact that it ships with windows.
I just compared the two systems directly on dell.com
Tharkban (It is a signature after all)
The latest ELER episode cover's Dell's Linux Support efforts.
I've been pretty excited about having this as an option, for one reason: I can be fairly certain this system is well tested and all the random stuff I usually have to hassle with (wireless card incompatibilities, suspend/resume, non-functional buttons, xorg.conf fiddling, etc. etc.) will either "just work" or will have well documented fixes pretty soon. $600 is a nice price point; I feel like I could recommend this to a lot more friends/family than I've been able to do in the past. The $100 discount vs. a windows variant is a nice plus; it'd be nice if it was an even larger discount, but at least I'm given the feeling that Microsoft ain't getting the MS tax this time. I wish they'd offered the 1405 with Ubuntu, it'd be nice to have a lower weight option, but I'm sure once they see overwhelming interest in this, they'll expand to more products.
.. it won't be cheaper, why would it. I'd rather buy the frigging Windows PC, keep the license and install Linux on top of it. What a bunch of crap this is.
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I can already see the headlines now - "Dell called Linux nemesis by X, Y or Z", after they discontinue their desktop/laptop Linux PC sales for lack of consumer demand.
:) It's not a long bet, so come on... put your money where your mouth is.
Anyone wanna bet on this?
'A lie if repeated often enough, becomes the truth.' - Goebbels
I figured I'd vote with my wallet.
Garry Williams
I thought I should hang back and let others do the initial buying, to see how well this works out and whether the hardware crashes and burns. But if everyone did that, then nobody would buy because no one would want to be first. Since I've been looking forward to getting a Linux notebook, I think it should be okay for me to be one of the first "tryer-outers". Also, hopefully this venture of Dell's into Ubuntu will be high-profile enough that if I encounter any problems, I'll scream and shout that I'm going to post about my problems on Slashdot, and then Dell shall suffer the wrath of Slashdot!!</voice> and they'd be more willing to fix it.
In addition to the basic notebook at $599, I decided to upgrade the memory from 512MB to 2GB (+$200), since it's probably the most precious commodity around; if I try to upgrade later, say in 2 years, some new memory standard will probably have come out and I won't be able to find the proper chips.
I figured I'd upgrade the hard drive, too, from 80GB to 160GB. I had thought I would upgrade the 2.5" HDD myself, but it comes with a SATA hard drive, and I've only worked with PATA hard drives[1]. Anyway, that's another +$125 for the HDD upgrade.
My third upgrade is for the DVD burner. The original price comes with a CD burner/DVD-ROM drive, but I've always had problems with Linux and DVD burning --my Kubuntu box has the LITE-ON DVD DL burner, and so far I've had to power up our Win2k box to burn DVD's. For +$40, I'm happy to get the DVD DL burner, and I want to see if K3b will let me burn all 8GB+ onto a DL DVD. Would be sweet if I could.
The only thing I don't like is the screen size. I don't care about widescreen[2], and you can't directly compare diagonal screen sizes of 16:9 (widescreen) screens with 4:3 (conventional) sizes, so I converted. The diagonal of a 16:9 screen is 1.22 times as long as a 12:9 (that is, 4:3) screen for the same height, so I divided the 15.4" diagonal length of the widescreen by 1.22 to get 12.6". So I'm really getting a 12.6" screen, except it's wider. That's tiny. The ThinkPad that my work gives me is 15" (4:3 aspect, same screen height as 18.3" widescreen) and I don't think it's big enough. Well, at least the small screen size makes the laptop smaller and portable.
By the way, what the heck is "TrueLife (glossy)"? I have the option to have it or not have it for my screen, at the same price, but it sounds like a load of MarketSpeak.
So, anyway, here's my system, cut&pasted from the Dell page:
Intel® Pentium® dual-core proc T2080(1MB Cache/1.73GHz/533MHz FSB
Ubuntu Edition version 7.04
15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA Display with TrueLife(TM)(glossy)
2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHZ, 2 DIMM
160GB 5400 RPM SATA Hard Drive
8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability
53 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945a/g
1Yr Ltd Warranty and Mail-In Service
Recycling Kit and Plant a Tree for Me
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950
Integrated Audio
Intel Centrino Core Duo Processor
I'll probably sit on this till next week, and then make the purchase.
Any comments? Is this a good deal, or am I being foolish?
I'm experimenting with the Slashdot journal, so maybe I'll post stuff in my journal about how the purchase is going, and I think I can set it up so that people can post comments.
-----
[1] PATA notebook drives: It's not that I'm afraid of SATA drives; it's that I've been standardizing on PATA 2.5" drives because I have a number of 2.5" notebook enclosures that, for $25, turn the internal notebook HDD into an external USB HDD that fits into my shirt pocket.
[2] widescreen: Please don't give me that crap about "But if you're screen's not wide enough, you don't see the whole movie --it will be chopped off at the left and right sides!" Well, then, just shrink the movie! I don't see anyone ever saying, "You need a 4:3 screen, because your TV show will be chopped off at the top and bottom by a 16:9 screen!"
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
I want to add that the nVidia 6100 boards integrated video runs Beryl (and World of Warcraft) quite well. So integrated is not necessarily bad.
Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
Dell updated the article TFA was based on to correct a pricing typo and someone posted a followup to summarize the corrected price differences.
If the compared boxen are actually equivalently-featured (time will tell) all the linux (suffix "n") versions are $50-$100 lower price than the Windows equivalents:
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
And just in case newbies are only looking at the pictures, they're sure to use images of machines that are not running X11, just to scare off any would-be Ubuntu wimp.
Linux should not be thought of as a Windows replacement, and Dell is sure to avoid the potential for careless customers to blame Dell for selling them what they accidentally ordered. And I personally am content for Linux to remain an OS "for advanced users and tech enthusiasts." But I know a lot of people in the community have viewed Dell's decision to sell Ubuntu as being one big step toward conquering Microsoft. There will be nothing but disappointment, as and Dell has ensured that Linux looks as frightening as possible to the average Joe.
The "images of machines that are not running X11" that you refer to are next to the details about FreeDOS, not Ubuntu. FreeDOS, indeed, does *not* run X11. The FreeDOS OS itself has a Command Line Interface only (no GUI), though it can run some GUI programs.
That is why I don't think Dell is trying to scare off potential Linux users by using an image of FreeDOS.
The Windows version of the E520 is cheaper because it has crappy hardware:
The $369 Windows E520 has:
Intel® Celeron D® Processor 347
No Monitor
512MB Single Channel DDR2 SDRAM
160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
The $599 Ubuntu E520 has:
Intel® Core(TM)2 Duo Processor E4300
17 inch E177FP Analog Flat Panel Monitor
1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet
The real story: the price difference between the Windows and Ubuntu versions with the same sonfiguration? Around $100 in UBUNTU's favor.
though someone else quoted at $140 savings... details at http://technocrat.net/d/2007/5/24/20488/#L20498
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the Linux base model laptop will have dedicated video
Do you mean that it will have dedicated video and that integrated video will be unavailable? That would seem to be false. I haven't been following the dellbuntu story very closely, but this configuration page has the laptop coming with a GMA 950 (integrated) video card, with the option for an upgrade to a dedicated nvidia card for $79.